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[Kot]

Post 5th ed Newcrons severely downgraded the threat posed by the Crons. They're still capable of separating the immaterium and real space, they're still capable of potentially exterminating the galaxy, but they are nowhere near the instant-death they were when they first started.

It was merely an off-hand example and not my point.

In newcron fluff, they're nowhere near the threat to humanity as they once were. The C'Tan are fragments of their former selves about as threatening as an avatar of Khaine, or a bundle of lasguns stapled together.

Except if they manage to get together, in which case they're rape gods.

For starters, they actually managed to get killed by their own slaves. In the old fluff even at their weakest this could never have happened, in the new fluff the Necrons have managed to split them into little fragments to use as batteries, with one C'Tan being straight up killed by a single Necron Empire. To make matters better for humanity, the Newcrons have a vested interest in ensuring that the C'Tan shards never reunite,

First, the sharding of C'tan is another testament to how strong Necrons are. Also, make matters better for humanity, yes, because there totally isn't a shard under Mars that threatens enslaving the integral part of Imperium, in which case Necrons would be bound to fight them to death.

because the C'Tan are now the Necron's greatest enemy. A C'Tan that managed to reform into a whole God would now be fighting against every warp-aligned faction (the Imperium, Chaos, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Orks would tag along just to get a good fight) AND the Necrons, who have material-based means to break C'Tan down. The C'Tan would be contested in real space whilst having all the disadvantages of fighting in a completely warp-ravaged post-Cadia galaxy.

Said C'Tan perhaps wouldn't be an Galaxy ending event, but it could very easily destroy a lot, including breaking down Imperium by targeting Terra, and it just opens up possibilities for someone else to win.

Of the Necrons themselves, they're no longer THE Necrons. They're a smorgasbord of unled, unclaimed tomb worlds, and a bunch of independent Empires. There is no unity of command, there is no unity of purpose, there is not even a common solidarity against the other races. Far from being a dormant undiscovered threat only the Eldar remember of, it's now a fractured mess with uncounted scores of Necron tomb worlds lost to malfunction (wat), infighting, Eldar attacks, Imperial attacks, even Tyranid attacks (in the old lore the Tyranids went around Necron tomb worlds. In the new lore the Tyranids eat their tomb worlds anyways). This leads to things like Tomb Worlds sending off invasion forces into suns and black holes where they are destroyed, or Tomb World maintenance protocols going rogue and sending necron armies to invade other necron tomb worlds to add to its mindless mission. Leaderless Tomb Worlds or ones led by senile Overlords do bugger all until a sane Phaeron shows up, and the Phaerons are all scheming against one another, or in a state of eternal melancholy at the mistake they made in giving up their flesh and bone. Far being the non-negotiable terminators of old, the new Necron leaders show a great deal of tolerance not just for humanity, but even for Eldar. Sometimes they don't exterminate an entire planet of life, sometimes they let their enemies surrender in a completely non-grimdark way, letting them leave in peace, sometimes they even ally with Imperial forces. Even if we disregarded Ultramarines tearing through Necrons & C'Tan alike like butter as a plot-related anomaly, the Necrons as a whole are so fractured, aimless and broken that they're barely capable of standing up against the unified elements of the Imperium, Chaos or the Tyranids. Even the Orks are more unified than them. THE ORKS. The Phaerons/Crypteks will never stop playing CK2 against one another long enough to unite under a future King, short of a temporary alliance to fuck up a united C'Tan. Some hate the youngling races, some don't mind the honourable ones, some only hate Orks, some hate other Phaerons/Crypteks more than the younglings, some hate C'Tan the most, some like Trollzyn are self-serving, some like Assholetep the Stormlord let enemies walk away from their defeat... They're a lot more reasonable compared to the non-negotiable murder bots they used to be, with a lot more exploitable flaws. Now they have psychological flaws too. Because now the greatest Necron leaders, what they hate the most is... Necrons. Imagine that: Necrons win, but want nothing more than to see their people live again, and stop being Necrons. There's a possibility of accommodation there.

Now that's the point I was also making - Necron unification would be as likely as anything, like Emperor standing up from the throne and leading Imperium to kick everyone's else ass. The new Necron leaders have personality, but they're far from "reasonable, peaceful, tolerant", with some specific exceptions (old fart Zahndrekh comes to mind). They only really ally for specific reasons, and while those reasons are sometimes very selfish, they don't really bode well for others. This is pretty much herding cats, but before Ghazghkull Orks were about as divided (Speaking of them, they're also another faction which victory ultimately results in destruction of everyone else). I have absolutely no doubts that, provided they were the focus, Necrons would unite in a snap of a finger, under one leader or another, because that's how Games Workshop does plot advancement. It also should be noted that Imotekh lets people go just so they can be scared shitless of him and tell everyone else to be scared shitless of him, or that they can return to get beaten again so before long he's known as the most powerful Necron Phaeron and possibly have a shot at uniting them together.
And heck, even, if Necron victory doesn't mean the genocide of other races, it effectively means destruction of other factions in the form they're in right now. Tau and Imperium would just become puppets and/or food for "what about we have flesh again" experiments Space Mengele is doing.

I'm not even going to bother with the flayers, a plague which reduces your already mindless species into an even more mindless uncontrollable species is going to harm unity. But I will say a game where Imperial assassins have to assassinate a target that may or may not be the Deceiver surrounded by deathmarks, pariahs, flayers and wraiths would be fucking ace

Ironically all Necrons infected with flayer diease would be pretty united in the purpose of MURDERHATEDEATHGORE every living race. With Valgul proving that there can be leaders that are capable of controlling and directing their force, Necrons would again be Space Skeleton Zombies, except in this case they'd be much less shooty and way more RIP AND TEAR.
Also, that game is essentially Mechanicus, if you replace assassins with cogboys and Deceiver with half a dozen various Necron lords you get to off there.

I honestly believe the Necrons would win even harder in a second war against the C'Tan given the new lore, my point is that they've gone from being fighting on the same side, to being crabs in a bucket holding each other down. Necrons no longer want to see C'Tan win, C'Tan no longer want to see Necrons win. Both have the power to righteously fuck each other up, which gives the other races serious counterweight, against two already divided races.

You are the one who suggested their victory. In the end, if C'Tan or Necrons would win is a minor argument I don't really feel invested into, and the "counterweight" just lets someone else take the cake.

Probably squats Slaanesh to make 40k kid-friendly

Certainly, there's no serious doubt about that, but what then? Would a Galaxy-spanning Eldar empire made up from some last remnants, that literally worships death form? Would they all be dead and Ynnead be a god without worshipers? What would Ynneads position towards other races be? What would other Chaos Gods do? Would Imperium start worshiping Ynnead, resulting in a weird plot twist where they genocide the Galaxy, except in the name of an Eldar death god instead of Emperor?

Masters of the webway, Dark Eldar unrestricted by the low-fertility rate of the Eldar, united front against other factions in spite of their internal issues. But it's really just the fact that they are webway-based which makes them relevant imo. They are the gorilla warfare copypasta of 40k, they can strike you from anywhere

Being a gorilla warfare incarnate doesn't really make you important in long run. They might throw sticks into gears of winning races, but ultimately they're kinda like Tau - their victory would involve way more "just as planned", deus ex machinas and weird plot gaps than usual.

The likelihood of everyone's end games fucking each other up to ensure no absolute victory is pretty damn high

In which case Chaos wins, since their end game is just seeing the Galaxy remain a vicious murderous shithole where everyone hates each other for next eternity, as that's what they're feeding from.

Sorta hard to say that C'Tan sharding is just propaganda when the C'Tan have been split into shards though

Sure, but (setting aside tabletop rules, since they have no attachment in fluff, unless you're one of those glue sniffers that believe rules are the "reality") there can be a lot said about how power levels and their capabilities for easy getting back together fare. Heck, for a while there was even a talk of The Deceiver being an unified C'Tan, also responsible for shit like Fall of Cadia, until it turned out he's apparently Alpha Legion's bitch now? Just as planned.

Good fucking Lord, the last thing I want is 40k to become another capeshit where Bigboi 1 fights Bigboi 2 and they keep doing it again and again and again. Kill superman. The repetitiveness of capeshit is a poison, not a recipe. How many failbaddons would you take before you got bored? 14? 20? 35? 50? Turn the gears, kill Uncle Ben, stop suspending the movement of time just to keep a million allusions from seeing the light of conclusion. Lest we be stuck with an eternal Cypher of "yeah probs" that spent years building up to... Nothing

But that's exactly what has happened. Chaos and Imperium fight, Bigboi 1 fights Bigboi 2 and... there's no resolution. If this repetitiveness remains, it's to be seen, since in their suicidal glory GW could hit Wh40k with AoS event (although AoS is pretty much embodying said repetitiveness, so maybe that's their plan), but yeah, this is my point. Bigboi 1 and Bigboi 2 should never meet, resulting in their actual fight being up to players. You have a fucking mind of your own, if you think your solution is the best then write some fapfiction if you're inclined to, but as the core the universe should remain unchanged to deny forcing people towards one certain path. If Warhammer was always advancing the plot we wouldn't get TTS, we wouldn't get sheer bajillions of writefriendry /tg/ and other places spew out, since there would be one, only, canonical truth. That kills Your Dudes. Your Dudes are no longer relevant. It's about Papa Smurf, specific Eldar, whoever else now. You can play as them on tabletop, sure, but they're aren't Your Dudes anymore, while before they very well could be, since what happens to them is up to debate. Now it's all up to Games Workshop stellar plot writers that force you to one true path of eternal "capeshit repetitiveness" because while they're advancing the plot, they can't actually advance it, or else they would kill their profits. So, congratulations, that's what you get by wanting plot advancement. Instead of sticking with fanmade sources (The Shape Of The Nightmare To Come dealt with a lot of things more elegantly, and without Primaris, at least), you now have something that satisfies noone.

[Trekkin]

Masters of the webway, Dark Eldar unrestricted by the low-fertility rate of the Eldar, united front against other factions in spite of their internal issues. But it's really just the fact that they are webway-based which makes them relevant imo. They are the gorilla warfare copypasta of 40k, they can strike you from anywhere

Being a gorilla warfare incarnate doesn't really make you important in long run. They might throw sticks into gears of winning races, but ultimately they're kinda like Tau - their victory would involve way more "just as planned", deus ex machinas and weird plot gaps than usual.

They're already winning insofar as they're getting what they want out of the galaxy: fun, misery, and slaves. In that, they are closer to Orks than Tau, right down to the manifold internal struggles and thrill-seeking behavior.

[Loud Whispers]

It was merely an off-hand example and not my point.

But do you begrudge a man for D E E P E S T   L O R E

Except if they manage to get together, in which case they're rape gods.

>C'Tan get back together
>Get resharded
Rinse and repeat. They're not the gods they were

First, the sharding of C'tan is another testament to how strong Necrons are. Also, make matters better for humanity, yes, because there totally isn't a shard under Mars that threatens enslaving the integral part of Imperium, in which case Necrons would be bound to fight them to death.

Necrons & Imperium having the same enemy in a corrupted Mechanicus is leagues better than the Imperium having to fight Necrons AND a corrupted Mechanicus on the same side

Now that's the point I was also making - Necron unification would be as likely as anything, like Emperor standing up from the throne and leading Imperium to kick everyone's else ass.

Seems pretty likely atm

The new Necron leaders have personality, but they're far from "reasonable, peaceful, tolerant", with some specific exceptions (old fart Zahndrekh comes to mind).

Didn't say they were reasonable, peaceful or tolerant, only that they're now not exclusively non-negotiable murdercrons, with only a few Empires being murdercrons. This gives wiggle room for writers to write in more alliances & accommodations. Zahndrekh unifying the Necrons would be the best thing to happen to 40k lore in a while, have the most grimdark faction led by noblebright

This is pretty much herding cats, but before Ghazghkull Orks were about as divided (Speaking of them, they're also another faction which victory ultimately results in destruction of everyone else).

Destruction, but not total annihilation. Ork victory would end with orks fighting orks, allowing for the defeated to reclaim lost turf (and teef)

I have absolutely no doubts that, provided they were the focus, Necrons would unite in a snap of a finger, under one leader or another, because that's how Games Workshop does plot advancement.

Plausible, they could have the Silent King do it with plot retcons, or any of the other Lords "rediscover" command protocols which allow them to unify the Necrons. PLOT VULT

It also should be noted that Imotekh lets people go just so they can be scared shitless of him and tell everyone else to be scared shitless of him, or that they can return to get beaten again so before long he's known as the most powerful Necron Phaeron and possibly have a shot at uniting them together.

Which is a quirk of personality which allows enemies to leave alive and well, instead of the logical world-ending crons of yore which would in every case, choose extermination. Even when it comes to spreading fear, oldcrons were founded with horror in mind, flayed ones erupting from piles of corpses and such. The threat is downgraded whenever it runs the risk of turning the gears of plot

And heck, even, if Necron victory doesn't mean the genocide of other races, it effectively means destruction of other factions in the form they're in right now. Tau and Imperium would just become puppets and/or food for "what about we have flesh again" experiments Space Mengele is doing.

Nah, there's plenty of ways out of any faction victory, even Necrons. Setting up a grand narrative arc for a second war in heaven led by a revanchist humanity making desperate alliances or bringing back big E is ez

Ironically all Necrons infected with flayer diease would be pretty united in the purpose of MURDERHATEDEATHGORE every living race. With Valgul proving that there can be leaders that are capable of controlling and directing their force, Necrons would again be Space Skeleton Zombies, except in this case they'd be much less shooty and way more RIP AND TEAR.

Unfortunately they also rip and tear necrons

Also, that game is essentially Mechanicus, if you replace assassins with cogboys and Deceiver with half a dozen various Necron lords you get to off there.

You legend

Probably squats Slaanesh to make 40k kid-friendly

Certainly, there's no serious doubt about that, but what then? Would a Galaxy-spanning Eldar empire made up from some last remnants, that literally worships death form? Would they all be dead and Ynnead be a god without worshipers? What would Ynneads position towards other races be? What would other Chaos Gods do? Would Imperium start worshiping Ynnead, resulting in a weird plot twist where they genocide the Galaxy, except in the name of an Eldar death god instead of Emperor?

With Slaanesh dead, the Eldar repopulate
_{[And birth Slaanesh 2]}

Being a gorilla warfare incarnate doesn't really make you important in long run. They might throw sticks into gears of winning races, but ultimately they're kinda like Tau - their victory would involve way more "just as planned", deus ex machinas and weird plot gaps than usual.

Being the Kings of the webway makes them more important than the Eldar tbh, same way the Harlequins are more important because they guard the Black Library even though they're a handful of clowns. In the long run their just as planned dickings matter, the Imperium needs the webway, while the DE can be anywhere, any time, and possess over seven hundred ways to kill the Imperium with their bear hands. Not only are they extensively trained in Eldar warfare, but they have access to the entire arsenal of the Eldar Empire (at its height!) and can use its full extent to wipe the Imperium's arse off the face of the galaxy. Until the Imperium counters Dark Eldar copypasta by dropping a Sly Marbo copypasta exterminatus into Comorragh, they're invincible

In which case Chaos wins, since their end game is just seeing the Galaxy remain a vicious murderous shithole where everyone hates each other for next eternity, as that's what they're feeding from.

*Orks win, for the same reason

Sure, but (setting aside tabletop rules, since they have no attachment in fluff, unless you're one of those glue sniffers that believe rules are the "reality") there can be a lot said about how power levels and their capabilities for easy getting back together fare. Heck, for a while there was even a talk of The Deceiver being an unified C'Tan, also responsible for shit like Fall of Cadia, until it turned out he's apparently Alpha Legion's bitch now? Just as planned.

Deceiver is probably the only C'Tan improved by being sharded, since there's now too many of them to keep track of ruining everyone's narratives like the smug bastard he is

But that's exactly what has happened. Chaos and Imperium fight, Bigboi 1 fights Bigboi 2 and... there's no resolution. If this repetitiveness remains, it's to be seen, since in their suicidal glory GW could hit Wh40k with AoS event (although AoS is pretty much embodying said repetitiveness, so maybe that's their plan), but yeah, this is my point. Bigboi 1 and Bigboi 2 should never meet, resulting in their actual fight being up to players.

Reminds me of when GW said they would decide how the lore progressed based on a tournament, but Failbaddon failed so much that they had to write in victories for him just to save face for the villain they really wanted to big up. Honestly they should've ended it with the Cadians using their power balls to invade the eye of terror itself

You have a fucking mind of your own, if you think your solution is the best then write some fapfiction if you're inclined to, but as the core the universe should remain unchanged to deny forcing people towards one certain path. If Warhammer was always advancing the plot we wouldn't get TTS, we wouldn't get sheer bajillions of writefriendry /tg/ and other places spew out, since there would be one, only, canonical truth. That kills Your Dudes. Your Dudes are no longer relevant. It's about Papa Smurf, specific Eldar, whoever else now. You can play as them on tabletop, sure, but they're aren't Your Dudes anymore, while before they very well could be, since what happens to them is up to debate. Now it's all up to Games Workshop stellar plot writers that force you to one true path of eternal "capeshit repetitiveness" because while they're advancing the plot, they can't actually advance it, or else they would kill their profits. So, congratulations, that's what you get by wanting plot advancement. Instead of sticking with fanmade sources (The Shape Of The Nightmare To Come dealt with a lot of things more elegantly, and without Primaris, at least), you now have something that satisfies noone.

Just because GW is retarded doesn't mean advancing the plot is heresy, while killing off special characters is the salvation of YOUR DUDES, because it breaks the mold. Progressing the plot doesn't throw the setting out of the window, while keeping it in perpetual stasis creates failbaddons out of every faction, all continually working towards the next big thing which never arrives. It is odd to say that TTSD or greentexts will cease to be made, or gamers will cease to create their own narratives because the plot progressed, because it is wholly a nonsensical understanding of the scale of 40k. It's like arguing that Tanith should be brought back to life otherwise the Tanith First & Only won't exist, which doesn't make sense at all. TTSD is built upon the lore made by plot progression, right up to the insertion of the War in Heaven, the insertion of the Necrons, the Tyranids, Cypher's machinations, Failbaddon's Crusades, the hints of Primarchs returning and Ghazkull uniting the Orks. As these events unfold, GW can't stop you from making your greentext about your dudes in some solar system that has fuck all to do with the GW narrative, or perhaps it does - doesn't matter, the choice is yours. Arguing that 40k is improved by allowing GW to bring the setting into 42nd milennium without any of the inevitable threats actually triggering into a threat robs them of any teeth. When does allowing the plot move forward become acceptable? When they're at 43rd? 44th? 50th? 100th? Keeping the setting in stasis is only possible if you stop the lore nerds at Black Library and the Codex departments from expanding the setting forwards in time

[Kot]

>C'Tan get back together
>Get resharded
Rinse and repeat. They're not the gods they were

IIRC, Necrons got them by surprise. Either way, it took them a while, during which C'Tan are capable of fucking up entire systems.

Necrons & Imperium having the same enemy in a corrupted Mechanicus is leagues better than the Imperium having to fight Necrons AND a corrupted Mechanicus on the same side

I hope you're aware how painfully stupid this idea is. There is no such thing as "Imperium against Mechanicus". It's either both together, or either one. If Mechanicus go corrupt, presumably due to Void Dragon, they are now in control of Terra and hold the remains of Imperium by the balls because nobody else knows how to dickslap buttons to make things go. Sure, that wouldn't be smooth and it would be Horus Heresy level event, but yeah, Necrons wouldn't be getting much help from Imperium.

Seems pretty likely atm

Just as it always been. Honestly, I would absolutely hate it if Emperor actually got off his Golden Popper and do a thing, since it's either total victory for Imperium, which does seem fine, but it'd feel cheap, or it would be another insane stalemate which would just make the biggest, most fucking important event for Imperium meaningless. Thanks, GW.

Didn't say they were reasonable, peaceful or tolerant, only that they're now not exclusively non-negotiable murdercrons, with only a few Empires being murdercrons. This gives wiggle room for writers to write in more alliances & accommodations. Zahndrekh unifying the Necrons would be the best thing to happen to 40k lore in a while, have the most grimdark faction led by noblebright

I wouldn't consider Zahndrekh ruling Necrons (which in itself is somewhat far shot) specifically noblebright. He might be, but Necrons aren't, even now while he tends to fight honorably and so on, his subordinates seem to think about the same as we'd do, as in he's old insane fart and most of his orders aren't to be listened to particularly carefully. Either way, any alliances and accommodations, while for time being (Silent King actually getting people to listen to him) would be something like uniting against Tyranids, beating them off and then going "hey those Space Marine bodies are cool" or something like that, resulting in another shitfest which ends in one side victory. Might pause again there, but still, Tyranids are now gone.

Destruction, but not total annihilation. Ork victory would end with orks fighting orks, allowing for the defeated to reclaim lost turf (and teef)

Mmm, yes, cut all factions except Orks. It's a bit scary that there are heretics who wouldn't mind this.

Which is a quirk of personality which allows enemies to leave alive and well, instead of the logical world-ending crons of yore which would in every case, choose extermination. Even when it comes to spreading fear, oldcrons were founded with horror in mind, flayed ones erupting from piles of corpses and such. The threat is downgraded whenever it runs the risk of turning the gears of plot

Except that one time when all survivors were going to die anyway, so it was probably even more horror. Or when he lets a named character go and goes like "I'm coming for all you hold dear next" and so on. The threat is delayed, maybe somewhat smaller, but it's still looming over the horizon and now it's not something easily understandable as machine zombie murder wave, but it's now death robots that are like people, which might be even more horrifying.

Nah, there's plenty of ways out of any faction victory, even Necrons. Setting up a grand narrative arc for a second war in heaven led by a revanchist humanity making desperate alliances or bringing back big E is ez

Big E comes back, and unless he turns out to be giant disappointment, he wins. It might take him a while, you may make WH50K out of it, but there will still be a winner, and there will be losers that no longer exist.

Unfortunately they also rip and tear necrons

They don't tear each other that much, and as I said, there is that one place where that one immune Lord actually just goes around leading a horde of them to raid everyone around him. If ALL Necrons were suddenly infected, except the immune ones, it's just a giant metallic zombie army led by a couple of super-logical robots, which is kinda reminiscent of their old stuff, except with fleshy suits all over. Even if they went through considerable losses in long run due to killing each other mindlessly, they'd destroy a lot.

With Slaanesh dead, the Eldar repopulate

So that means another time where they rule the Galaxy, effectively removing Imperium (not humanity, but Imperium), fighting Necrons (and Tyranids) in War In Heaven 2. That's also implying the God of Death wouldn't just, you know, kill all Eldar, and then everyone else to boot.

Being the Kings of the webway makes them more important than the Eldar tbh, same way the Harlequins are more important because they guard the Black Library even though they're a handful of clowns. In the long run their just as planned dickings matter, the Imperium needs the webway, while the DE can be anywhere, any time, and possess over seven hundred ways to kill the Imperium with their bear hands. Not only are they extensively trained in Eldar warfare, but they have access to the entire arsenal of the Eldar Empire (at its height!) and can use its full extent to wipe the Imperium's arse off the face of the galaxy. Until the Imperium counters Dark Eldar copypasta by dropping a Sly Marbo copypasta exterminatus into Comorragh, they're invincible

Imperium did drop few times into Commorragh, as did a lot other factions. The thing was, someone wanted them to. Now, if Imperium actually got around to thinking "hey what about we invade the Dark Eldar place in a big-ass Crusade", Dark Eldar are effectively reduced to nothing. Still, it doesn't even matter, I don't even think really hard about this argument - Dark Eldar just generally don't sling around the same type of force Imperium, Necrons, Nids or even unified Orks do.

*Orks win, for the same reason

They'd just get put in the zoo by Khorne to watch them fight when he's bored. There's a precedent.

Reminds me of when GW said they would decide how the lore progressed based on a tournament, but Failbaddon failed so much that they had to write in victories for him just to save face for the villain they really wanted to big up. Honestly they should've ended it with the Cadians using their power balls to invade the eye of terror itself

They should have never started.

Just because GW is retarded doesn't mean advancing the plot is heresy,

It is, even if they weren't. Too much time has passed.

while killing off special characters is the salvation of YOUR DUDES, because it breaks the mold. Progressing the plot doesn't throw the setting out of the window,

It very well does. The setting is upset, it's no longer "set", it has changed. Things are now different, and old cool things aren't a thing anymore. It's now new lame things, like Primaris Marines.

while keeping it in perpetual stasis creates failbaddons out of every faction, all continually working towards the next big thing which never arrives.

No. Not moving the plot doesn't do this. Moving the plot without consequences does it. The Failbaddon meme takes a lot from mentioned try to advance the plot with tournaments, and them just advancing the plot-but not.

It is odd to say that TTSD or greentexts will cease to be made, or gamers will cease to create their own narratives because the plot progressed, because it is wholly a nonsensical understanding of the scale of 40k.

Advancing the plot is based on nonsensical understanding of the scale of 40K.

It's like arguing that Tanith should be brought back to life otherwise the Tanith First & Only won't exist, which doesn't make sense at all.

No, the thing is, Tanith is widening the scale. The whole setting remains in stasis, because Tanith First and Only doesn't somehow do something like bringing back Emperor or other "important" stuff. They can exist as a separate part of the world. It's "Your Dudes" but canon.

TTSD is built upon the lore made by plot progression, right up to the insertion of the War in Heaven, the insertion of the Necrons, the Tyranids, Cypher's machinations, Failbaddon's Crusades, the hints of Primarchs returning and Ghazkull uniting the Orks.

TTS is built upon expanding the lore, not *progression*. The closest thing to *progression* it has inside is the latter parts, such as Ork unification theories, Primarch return theories, and so on, but that's the point. It's theories. It was not canon as to how it will happen. You can take it and go with it however you want. By advancing plot you just cut away from what one can do, forcing upon a canon solution to one of those fun theories of yore. I mean, sure, you can still go "well but My Dudes defended Cadia and Cadia still stands" but that's a bit... different in how it works.

As these events unfold, GW can't stop you from making your greentext about your dudes in some solar system that has fuck all to do with the GW narrative, or perhaps it does - doesn't matter, the choice is yours. Arguing that 40k is improved by allowing GW to bring the setting into 42nd milennium without any of the inevitable threats actually triggering into a threat robs them of any teeth. When does allowing the plot move forward become acceptable? When they're at 43rd? 44th? 50th? 100th? Keeping the setting in stasis is only possible if you stop the lore nerds at Black Library and the Codex departments from expanding the setting forwards in time

I don't argue 40K is improved by allowing GW to bring the setting into 42nd millenium without doing anything. I argue that 40K is best kept in complete time block where it was, but even if the writers can't fucking figure that shit out, another couple hundred years changes fuck-all, since all that was happening for *at least* thousand years, it's not like Emperor has to die on midnight 0.999.999.M41. I am all for making the lore deeper, wider, more inclusive between birth of Universe and some undefined point that happens before "The End Game".

[Loud Whispers]

Oh I get what you're saying, and I agree. Covering more areas of the galaxy instead of just advancing the timeline forwards for Ultramar & Cadia should have been the way forwards. We end times Primaris Sigmarines tho now

*EDIT
I feel I dishonour your post by not wall of texting it back, but I really have nothing to say except agreement. Imagine a wall of text here instead

[MrRoboto75]

Imagine a wall of text here instead

tl;dr

[Loud Whispers]

tl;dr

That god me good, spilt my tea everywhere hahaha

[Kot]

You are forgiven.

tl;dr

The wall just got ten quotes higher.

[Rolan7]

So, that was amazing.  Thanks a lot guys, I feel like I learned a lot!

Also you think the Tau are irrelevant just because we're literally outnumbered a trillion to one, but you forget, we're ninjas.  Outnumbered so, we cannot lose.

Better yet, that quality of ninjas also applies to friendship.  With the magic of friendship and power of ninjitsu and our FTL drives folding space over a hundred times, we cannot fail!  I for some reason am unable to consider a future in which we fail!  Ethereals are so great.  What was I talking about?

[Loud Whispers]

So, that was amazing.  Thanks a lot guys, I feel like I learned a lot!

Also you think the Tau are irrelevant just because we're literally outnumbered a trillion to one, but you forget, we're ninjas.  Outnumbered so, we cannot lose.

Better yet, that quality of ninjas also applies to friendship.  With the magic of friendship and power of ninjitsu and our FTL drives folding space over a hundred times, we cannot fail!  I for some reason am unable to consider a future in which we fail!  Ethereals are so great.  What was I talking about?

Tau numbers don't matter too much in the grand scheme of things, provided they're capable of integrating the populations of conquered worlds without getting undone by chaos-infested human hobo subjects. It's more their logistics; lacking the bureaucratic despotism of the adeptus munistorum and the technology of reckless warp travel, the Tau would struggle to maintain their Empire if it got much larger than it already is, let alone to a size where the other factions sans Nids really notice them. They haven't proven the capabilities to launch a sustained war of attrition on the other side of the galaxy, and while their FTL travel has consistent results, it doesn't go fast like sanic. The sheer scale of Imperial mobilisation efforts means that the Tau are still dealing with Imperial forces from the Damocles Crusade appearing on their doorstep hundreds of years after the campaign ended due to warp shenanigery. By contrast if the Tau invaded Terra, they wouldn't be able to replenish their losses, nor would they be able to send their forces home in time to stop all the horrible BDSM goblins from culturally exchanging with the Tau

[Egan_BW]

Do the BDSM goblins even care about the adorable little soulless weebs?

[Grim Portent]

Do the BDSM goblins even care about the adorable little soulless weebs?

They like killing/enslaving them, yes. One of the first Tau/Eldar interactions was between DEldar and Tau who were being attacked by Tyranids and it's frankly hilarious.



So basically this Tau world, Vigos, was under attack and getting it's ass handed to it by Tyranids. Reinforcements from Rubikon were several weeks away and would probably not arrive in time. Then a strange chap calling himself Urien Rakarth appears and offers to help in exchange for a sample of each Tau caste to learn more about them. 77 of each non-Ethereal caste and 7 Ethereals as I recall. The Tau agree to the 77x4 but not the Ethereals.

Rakarth and his coven then unleash an army of Wracks, Grotesques and Pain Engines on the Tyranids and wreck face in tandem with the Tau, then take their payment away in their spiky horrible ships. The Tau are feeling kind skeezy about this cause the flesh monsters are creepy, but they're used to working with races they find grisly, like the Kroot. Plus they have no idea Wracks and Grotesques are actually made so they decide it's worth working with Rakarth in future. They prep for a counter attack, but they notice after the fighting that a lot of the new Grotesques fielded had familiar blue-grey skin and realise what happened to their sacrifices.

Immediately after they realise this Rakarth calls them up and ask for either his 7 Ethereals or 7077 other Tau. Now kinda mad at him the Tau try to attack his ship with their recently arrived reinforcements, only to find his ship is just a hologram and fake sensor signatures. Then they get a distress call from the planet the reinforcements came from. Urien Rakarth is attacking it now it's garrison fleet is away, along with Vect himself and a healthy smattering of kabals and covens joining in. By the time the Tau got back there to try and help the place was a charnel house of corpses devoid of life, most of the people having been spirited away to Commorragh and the others arranged into an insulting menagerie of meat.

[Kot]

Tau might be relevant in the overarching story, since there are (or rather, were) references to that. Necron lore had some references to the "Seed in the East", and I had some rambling few years ago on how Tau could be related to Necrons (despite everyone thinking it was Eldar due to reference to their creation being done by "like a human but not", but to insectoid Q'orl that might be literally almost anyone, but oh well), because it just kind of makes sense. The whole Q'orl queen thing, Ethereals rule them by mind control, kind of like Necrons have the higher castes order the relatively mindless regular Necrons around, resistance to Warp, the relative similarity of Necrontyr (though there's no real canon apperance of theirs, but they apparently looked like Necrons except fleshy, so) to Ethereals, so on.
It'd make sense some Necron (Space Mengele maybe?) actually took a specific race and boosted them so they might become carriers for Necrons in future (or even it was all Deceiver, and it's just another just-as-planned where Necrons transfer into Tau and it turns out they were controlled by him all along, so they're now his slaves).

[Tack]

But do I actually have to read the big quote ladder?
It's physically demanding in a strange way.

[GiglameshDespair]

Makes you understand why other forums I'm on ban cutting posts up into a billion quotes like that.