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[Grim Portent]

There is some genetic transfer between the space marine and their implants, geneseed has qualities that vary depending on the lineage it's drawn from. Space marines sometime inherit physical or psychological qualities of their predecessors and can in turn pass down their own qualities. Obvious thematic reasons behind this aside, it means they'd probably have gametes corrupted over time by their implanted genetics. From a thematic standpoint it'd suit 40k if Astartes sired offspring were born deformed and wretched as part of the common theme of genetic tampering being dangerous.

But I think the closest we'll get to a proper answer is that the RPGs gave them Chem-Gelded (which also represents mental discipline against temptation mind you), and whenever the concept of love is mentioned with them in novels it's familial, so I think sexual arousal just doesn't happen to them. They're too distanced from normal humans to feel it, along with a bunch of other stuff.

[Kot]

There is some genetic transfer between the space marine and their implants, geneseed has qualities that vary depending on the lineage it's drawn from. Space marines sometime inherit physical or psychological qualities of their predecessors and can in turn pass down their own qualities. Obvious thematic reasons behind this aside, it means they'd probably have gametes corrupted over time by their implanted genetics. From a thematic standpoint it'd suit 40k if Astartes sired offspring were born deformed and wretched as part of the common theme of genetic tampering being dangerous.

I guess some genetic material could somehow get into the kid, but it could not be advantageous, and even if, certainly not enough to create a full-on Space Marine.

Essentially.

But I think the closest we'll get to a proper answer is that the RPGs gave them Chem-Gelded (which also represents mental discipline against temptation mind you), and whenever the concept of love is mentioned with them in novels it's familial, so I think sexual arousal just doesn't happen to them. They're too distanced from normal humans to feel it, along with a bunch of other stuff.

I know this is somewhat of a weird line of reasoning, but I mentioned that there doesn't seem to be many homosexual (or maybe they're all Slanneshi now) Space Marines (it's been thousand of years, they form tight bonds, they probably walk around half-naked a lot, it's pure law of probability, some of them would have to think about it one day or another if they felt arousal at all), nor any of them really exhibiting any form of sexual interest - the technical fertility of the, well, seed, is up to debate, but it is pretty obvious they don't seem to feel it at all.
Of course it's not really necessary for some form of romance to have arousal and all, but at that point it might be indistinguishable from regular camaraderie for them, and they don't exactly have a lot of chances to get that going on with females.
Then there are Space Wolves who seem to be still attracted to females, although still doesn't really explain if their equipment actually works, so to speak, since I think all instances of actually landing in bed can be explained as going at it before becoming a Space Marine.

[Trekkin]

One of the things I concluded was what if they are still fertile, what status would their children have, and even more so if it were with an hypothetical female space marine.

Well, the descriptions of the Space Marine selection process often include some reference to rooms filled with the bones of aspirants who got through the physical tryout and combat part but were determined to be genetically incompatible with the implants, which indicates that they haven't been able to perfectly predict the traits they need from the trials -- and since the Marines aren't usually spoiled for initiates, we can assume that they'd want to take steps to improve the aspirant-to-initiate ratio.

One paticularly Imperial way to do that, of course, would be to just herd the population of their recruiting worlds into camps, screen them all for compatibility, and kill or sterilize everyone who isn't carrying the right genes until they become fixed in the population. (The Inquisition calls this "Tuesday.") Since the corpses of genetically incompatible aspirants are still piling up, we can surmise that either this doesn't work or isn't efficient enough to be worth trying in the first place.

So we can assume that whatever heritable traits make initiates suitable aren't especially heritable in the classic sense, which leads to the conclusion that even if Marines could pass on their genetic engineering, it would be a crapshoot whether or not their clones would be able to handle it, let alone their kids.

[Telgin]

Most chapters are probably too steeped in tradition of just grabbing random survivors from the local death world to try anything like proper eugenics, but even if one tried it, Chaos / random mutation would probably find a way to get in the way just to keep that from being done.

Actually, in earlier editions I'm pretty sure it was stated that they screened aspirants for compatibility before they even started any trials, and that the failures afterward were caused by freak accidents with the geneseed or mutation in the geneseed itself.  I'm guessing that nobody understands the geneseed well enough to screen it perfectly against problems like this, or its interaction with aspirants is too complex to predict.

[Trekkin]

Most chapters are probably too steeped in tradition of just grabbing random survivors from the local death world to try anything like proper eugenics, but even if one tried it, Chaos / random mutation would probably find a way to get in the way just to keep that from being done.

Actually, in earlier editions I'm pretty sure it was stated that they screened aspirants for compatibility before they even started any trials, and that the failures afterward were caused by freak accidents with the geneseed or mutation in the geneseed itself.  I'm guessing that nobody understands the geneseed well enough to screen it perfectly against problems like this, or its interaction with aspirants is too complex to predict.

Well, drift is inevitable, but it's not quick, and the same methods used to fix the relevant variants could keep up selective pressure. Chaos might be a factor, though.

The current "Rites of Initiation" page by GW mentions that "If these [genetic and psychological] tests prove successful, a candidate becomes a neophyte," which sounds to me like these screens are among the last steps. It would make sense, too, given the death rate. No sense wasting Apothecary time screening people who are just going to die within hours or days. That said, the screening probably continues through neophytedom for precisely the reasons you mentioned, although that still suggests that Marines' hypothetical kids aren't significantly more likely to be Marine-compatible than the general population.

EDIT: Lexicanum also mentions this from Angels of Darkness by Gav Thorpe: " They are assessed with a variety of contests of strength, agility and stamina before being assessed by an Apothecary for their suitability for receiving the implanted organs necessary for their transformation. Those that fail the trial at this stage by being biologically unsuitable or by weakness of will are euthanised."(Emphasis mine.)

[LordBaal]

Wow being euthanized seems like wasting a lot of potential good serfs for the chapter, I mean if they already  physically strong and combat able.

The point before was that having female space marines would open, among lots of cans of worms, the chance of a Space Marines race/species (depending from the angle you look at it). And honestly that's fucking scary.

In the old lore theres references of they having children, don't remember if it was half human or half eldar or something. That was gladly retconected and now eldar are incompatible with humans as they should.

The ammount of genetherapy they are subjected for sure would alter their offspring, if they even have the gear and is working of course. But the conclusion was that most likely they were anywhere from physically castrated to chemically gelded or simply psychologically treated, or a combination of things to ensure they are basically battle eunuchs. I argued that sterilisation and removal of sex drive was the goal, not castration because good levels of testosterone would be usefull and even needed (one of the reasons why only male sm) but was also pointed put that the implants probably take care of whatever hormones are needed during the process and afterwards.

[Grim Portent]

Most aspirants who fail at any stage are pretty messed up in the process. If they're physically incompatible that generally means they've undergone invasive surgery to determine such or had an implant and it was rejected, if they're mentally unsuited they're not really cut out for anything involving the chapter or might go mad during the indoctrination processes.

I remember in Rynn's World there was a character who was a former aspirant turned serf, and he was severely physically impaired by the effects of his body rejecting his initial organ implants. He mused that he was a rare exception to the normal result, which was becoming a servitor due to gross physical or mental trauma.

[LordBaal]

Oh yeah, I guess I forgot what " being assessed by an Apothecary" could mean in this universe. You are right.

[nenjin]

Most aspirants who fail at any stage are pretty messed up in the process. If they're physically incompatible that generally means they've undergone invasive surgery to determine such or had an implant and it was rejected, if they're mentally unsuited they're not really cut out for anything involving the chapter or might go mad during the indoctrination processes.

I remember in Rynn's World there was a character who was a former aspirant turned serf, and he was severely physically impaired by the effects of his body rejecting his initial organ implants. He mused that he was a rare exception to the normal result, which was becoming a servitor due to gross physical or mental trauma.

Unless the aspirant is seriously jacked up, I don't think servitorhood is the default outcome for them. Chapters need serfs and even if they failed at becoming Space Marines, they're still the cream of the crop of their home worlds, highly motivated to serve the chapter in any way they can. The loyalty of Chapter serfs is legendary. The demands placed on an aspirant to become a space marine I don't think reflect on their ability to serve the chapter in another capacity.

[LordBaal]

Sure but as pointed out the incompatibility might be discovered after being implanted and fucked up by the first implants, or some other kind of gruesome exploratory (and most likely unnecessary but hey grimdark) surgery.

[nenjin]

I can't recall specifics but I seem to remember a few stories featuring chapter serfs with obvious defects, but are still allowed to service Space Marine armor and all the other various functions. According to Chapter ideology of course. Some chapters require serfs to be as close to perfect as possible, and some chapters literally do not do human serfs at all.

[Grim Portent]

It varies from chapter to chapter, the Crimson Fists euthanize a lot of them, or at least ones who get as messed up as the serf who gets some PoV scenes in Rynn's World if my recollection is correct, and there was definitely a comment about most of the many chapter servitors being failed aspirants. The Space Wolves ones mostly outright die I think due to how they do their trials, which makes me wonder where their serfs come from given their weirdness.



Though when thinking about it a lot of the populations marines recruit from would make terrible serfs anyway. Murderous gangsters, illiterate tribesmen, wasteland scavengers and so on are common sources of aspirants, and I can see why they'd make good marines, I find it harder to see how they'd make good messengers for a peaceful fortress, or be good at ceremonial duties, personal services or running a canteen or helping maintain astartes wargear. Why not just snag a bunch of people out of the Administratum and lay-Mechanicus? 

Especially if you're testing hundreds of people at a time to replace one marine, imagine trying to create a new scout squad and being stuck with about a thousand barely functional barbarians that you need to give jobs as glorified janitors and clerks as a byproduct.

[LordPorkins]

I think space wolves serfs are just Fenrisian residents. After all, Shield Maidens are actually referenced.

[nenjin]

Though when thinking about it a lot of the populations marines recruit from would make terrible serfs anyway. Murderous gangsters, illiterate tribesmen, wasteland scavengers and so on are common sources of aspirants, and I can see why they'd make good marines, I find it harder to see how they'd make good messengers for a peaceful fortress, or be good at ceremonial duties, personal services or running a canteen or helping maintain astartes wargear. Why not just snag a bunch of people out of the Administratum and lay-Mechanicus?

By that logic though, all aspirants are terrible choices. You can't be an Astartes without the discipline, respect for authority and sense of duty that comes with it. Ergo, all aspirants have to cross that barrier whether they're going to become full Astartes or not. The ones that abjectly fail that test both don't become Astartes, and probably don't get to remain sentient.

If this were like, 35 years ago in the reign of Ian Watson's Space Marine, I'd be inclined to agree. But the landscape is a bit different now.

[Trekkin]

Why not just snag a bunch of people out of the Administratum and lay-Mechanicus? 

Well, most chapters probably can't.

Remember, the Astartes are a part of the Adeptus Terra in a very loose, notional sense; every Chapter is, barring other arrangements, an autonomous entity, which is part of why such frequent reference is made to ancient pacts with recruiting worlds and forge worlds and so forth -- they can't just requisition stuff from the Imperium in the same way the Guard can. Now, Space Marines don't really have anything to bargain with other than their military might, and from the point of view of the Imperium there isn't a way to compel them to show up to honor those agreements other than the inherent value the Marines place on whatever they're getting. Recruiting worlds can count on Marine defense due to their rarity, but they can get clerks and cogboys anywhere -- and, of course, there's no marginal benefit to letting them remove more population from their recruiting worlds than the recruits, since at that point they're going to show up when needed, clerks or no clerks. So what Imperial governor would be so reliably charitable?

Given that the Astartes have fleets, and Imperial vessels are cities unto themselves, it would be simpler for them to find any additional serfs they need there.