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[Putnam]

They don't make races for other mods because Masterwork is the only one worth making a race for, both because it's the only thing popular enough to matter these days and because most other mods aren't quite so completely and utterly incompatible with vanilla.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Well, if it's bad, then it shouldn't attract users in the first place... And if it's good, why wouldn't you want it included as an option in an easy-to-use collection of similarly good things?

You have built up a lore around it, and don't want it to be with things that would mess up that lore.

[smakemupagus]

You have built up a lore around it, and don't want it to be with things that would mess up that lore.

So then don't include it /problemsolved

[Nopenope]

A lore only exists within the person's mind - it becomes completely different when used by another person. If you want people to use your stuff, you have to expect them to use it with a different mindset than you do. Also nothing prevents you from developing your own "purist" (so to speak) lore-specific mod alongside the forked MW one, in case this situation ever happens.

[NullForceOmega]

This thread is starting to get very hostile, I know Meph said anything goes, but let's try to keep the interpersonal attitudes out of it please.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

So then don't include it /problemsolved

Some people enjoy having an internally consistent to their mods.  Also, that's just one example, another is that they want their work to shine on its own.

[smakemupagus]

Right, I get it (ed:  i think.  sorry if somehow i'm missing the point?...).  So then the author should just ask the curator of big mod pack to not use this contribution, and the curator of big mod pack should respect that wish.  What is the problem?

[Boea]

So then don't include it /problemsolved

Some people enjoy having an internally consistent to their mods.  Also, that's just one example, another is that they want their work to shine on its own.

But this changes from person to person? Wouldn't being able to easily change the content in the game be towards that end? (This is the point of Masterwork...)

And as noted before, Meph, et al., have spent innumerable hours making sure the various components work together in no particular order... for the above points...

[NullForceOmega]

I think that the point here is that if a mod does something unique and interesting, MW tends to quickly recreate that effect within itself, thereby decreasing the unique mods attraction to prospective players.  But that is just my read of it.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

What is the problem?

The phrasing you had used made it sound as if it had to be in Masterwork, rather than it being the choice the creator.

I think that the point here is that if a mod does something unique and interesting, MW tends to quickly recreate that effect within itself, thereby decreasing the unique mods attraction to prospective players.  But that is just my read of it.

This is a true as well.

[smakemupagus]

The phrasing you had used made it sound as if it had to be in Masterwork, rather than it being the choice the creator.

Oh.  No, that's not what I meant.  I used the verb "include" rather than "allow to be included" because authors of content are often personally involved in a collaboration if their stuff gets rolled in.

[edit to avoid double post]

I am *sure* it is not Meph or any other contributor's intent to use anything against the inclination of the original author.  If that somehow happened accidentally then send a PM to the parties involved and get it squared away.  I am confused why this discussion takes on the bent of talking about some hypothetical plagarism.  Seriously, noone intends for that to happen.

I think that the point here is that if a mod does something unique and interesting, MW tends to quickly recreate that effect within itself, thereby decreasing the unique mods attraction to prospective players.

I suppose, but then also lots of modders also learn by deconstructing big mods, and learn in a fraction of the time how to recreate similar effects that experienced modders spent a lot of time figuring out.  Everything flows both ways, everyone gets better at modding, and big and small mods alike become more able to actually implement the creative content that they want to achieve, everyone has more fun.  Just my view.  I understand that reasonable people can disagree on this point.

[Vattic]

I don't like the style of Masterwork, it's just not my cup of tea. I know I could turn off a lot of what I don't like, but I enjoy tinkering with my own private mod more than using something pre-packaged. I have borrowed the odd idea and used the raws to help me figure out how to do things, but I do this with lots of mods big and small.

[Billy Jack]

The whole idea of a mod is to take someone else's work and utilize it in a different way then it was initially intended. When electricity was first discovered the light bulb wasn't developed the next day. Modern society is built upon the ever expanding implementation and further development of other's ideas. Without Bay12 doing the major development, none of the mods would be possible. Expanding on the work of one to create something new, is the entire nature of modding.

If a group of people hadn't started digging through the RAWs and determining what the tokens did, then others wouldn't have been able to leverage that knowledge to create their own mods. If the dfHack team hadn't started mapping out memory addresses and developing ways to read or change them, then others would not have been able to create the tools and scripts that many feel are necessary to truly enjoy the game.

Masterwork certainly does borrow from other mods and takes advantage of new developments in scripting. I would hope that the developers of those tools would be honored to see what their work has allowed others to accomplish. The same goes for mod creators. All of the originators of those developments deserve credit.

As mentioned previously, Meph handles all of the management and inclusion of those nifty tools, scripts, and mods that he feels would contribute to the MW mod. He helps other people benefit from all of the available tweaks that many view as enhancing the experience. He sees the value of a new script / plugin and is inspired with what it can do. The MW mod inspires others to see what they could do to benefit the community.

And now I will remove my nose from up his ass (as in "brown noser") and provide my criticisms.

I agree with a previous post about there being a stable, bug-free version of the mod. I drifted away from DF after the 4i version of MW came out and wanted to wait for the new release of DF before coming back. I'm not familiar with how development on v5 went, but previously, each update seemed to provide bug fixes to old issues, yet introduce new ones from new content being developed.

I dislike the magic, alchemy, harder mining, diseases, golems, among a few other things. I know I can disable much of them, but, I always wonder what doing so would potentially break.

Have all of the new metals / alloys added anything to the game - I don't think so. I thought the basis of this mod was to help increase FPS by removing the unnecessary materials and such that were essentially generic because many of them had all of the same attributes with different names and colors. Now it continues to add to the FPS issue by including other materials, that I feel are unnecessary. The standardizing of the materials is what initially drew me in to MW. Implementing other's mods without this initial goal in mind is not always a good thing.

Thanks, Meph for all the great work you have done. The sheer number of downloads of your mod indicates your influence on the DF community, whether it be good or bad.

TL;DR  - you don't care what I have to say and I likely don't care what you have to say either. 

[lunaman22]

I really love the MDF mod but i still think that vanilla is better.

[Arbinire]

Right, I get it (ed:  i think.  sorry if somehow i'm missing the point?...).  So then the author should just ask the curator of big mod pack to not use this contribution, and the curator of big mod pack should respect that wish.  What is the problem?

There is always the problem that if someone refuses to let their work be absorbed by masterwork, or later decides they no longer want it packaged within masterwork, that this person will then be ridiculed and ostracized by the fans of masterwork because of it.  The general community on these forums do tend to be better than that, but places where masterwork is seen, such as Reddit, aren't nearly so nice and often devolve into mob mentality..*cough* aherm, I mean, Social "Justice".