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[Persus13]

About 10 turns into a game with the Sister's of Twilight, and they're pretty fun to play. They're basically a flying artillery piece that can switch ammo like the reaper/eagle claw bolt throwers.

[nenjin]

Oh, also some magic got nerfed. Burning Head and Penumbral Pendulum in particular.

A shame, but I understand. Spells like Burning Head, PP and Wind of Death basically remove the need for pretty much any other offensive spells IMO.

[Jopax]

I had two attempts at the sister campaign, both ended in disaster, mostly because I got no clue on how to play them properly yet (the skaven approach of cannon fodder and overwhelming firepower doesn't seem particularly effective, mostly because the firepower isn't all that overwhelming so far). Will say that their shooty hawk ability thing is pretty damn juicy, able to yeet a weaker unit of infantry almost instantly if it lands nicely.

Also as an immediate QoL I'd like to see is the forge upgrades displaying the current stats of the item you're upgrading/reforging. I know that the numbers in general go bigger with the rarities but I'd be nice to be able to make an informed choice without having to go trough several screens of UI to find the item in question and then memorize its stats before committing to a choice :V

[Dostoevsky]

Also as an immediate QoL I'd like to see is the forge upgrades displaying the current stats of the item you're upgrading/reforging. I know that the numbers in general go bigger with the rarities but I'd be nice to be able to make an informed choice without having to go trough several screens of UI to find the item in question and then memorize its stats before committing to a choice :V

From the company rep on reddit - changes, though not really the one you're looking for:

We’ve heard your feedback regarding the Forge of Daith, and we’re going to work to make various improvements.

Short-term, we’re going to focus on implementing some changes that should deal with some of the most notable pain points raised in the last few days:

• Reforged items will no longer return to their base level upon expiring, and instead will revert to the level they were before being Reforged.
• When you receive Forge of Daith dilemmas that affect a maximum-level item, you will be able to choose to reduce the time until the next Daith’s Gift event – Naestra will no longer walk away without anything (she’s generous, but not that generous!).
• We also want to do a pass on the item effects overall to ensure that they provide interesting and exciting gameplay choices.

Longer term we want to make continued improvements – while we don’t want to make fundamental changes to the underlying gameplay and UI, there are two areas in particular we want to focus on:

• Letting you see in advance which item you receive from the Daith’s Gift dilemma
• Investigating what new visual elements we can create to support the system

We appreciate your feedback and patience so far and are confident that we’ll be able to work together to make the Sisters a truly unique campaign experience. As always, development is subject to change - so while this is currently the plan, we appreciate your patience and understanding if this changes in the future, and we will let you know if that is the case.

(They're also going to improve the quality of unit portraits for this DLC and Grom's.)

[nenjin]

I had two attempts at the sister campaign, both ended in disaster, mostly because I got no clue on how to play them properly yet (the skaven approach of cannon fodder and overwhelming firepower doesn't seem particularly effective, mostly because the firepower isn't all that overwhelming so far). Will say that their shooty hawk ability thing is pretty damn juicy, able to yeet a weaker unit of infantry almost instantly if it lands nicely.

As LoTW says "Either it's a crap stack, or a doom stack." Half measures and thematic armies don't tend to win. Which bums me out. Actually his videos often bum me out, because he basically says melee is trash and doesn't deliver damage, so it's all your spells, ranged, artillery and sometimes lords and monsters that do all the heavy lifting to win battles. Melee just exists to keep the enemy away from your "good units." Which sucks because there's so much variety in each army, but only a handful of units that really deliver.

[Teneb]

I had two attempts at the sister campaign, both ended in disaster, mostly because I got no clue on how to play them properly yet (the skaven approach of cannon fodder and overwhelming firepower doesn't seem particularly effective, mostly because the firepower isn't all that overwhelming so far). Will say that their shooty hawk ability thing is pretty damn juicy, able to yeet a weaker unit of infantry almost instantly if it lands nicely.

As LoTW says "Either it's a crap stack, or a doom stack." Half measures and thematic armies don't tend to win. Which bums me out. Actually his videos often bum me out, because he basically says melee is trash and doesn't deliver damage, so it's all your spells, ranged, artillery and sometimes lords and monsters that do all the heavy lifting to win battles. Melee just exists to keep the enemy away from your "good units." Which sucks because there's so much variety in each army, but only a handful of units that really deliver.

Keep in mind that he says melee is trash because he plays on legendary where the AI has so many battle buffs that melee is indeed trash.

On normal or in multiplayer (you can see this in youtubers like Zerkovich, Turin, Indypride and others) melee is very important.

[LordPorkins]

Do keep in mind Nenjin, that Legend is very specifically focused on, well, Legendary Difficulty. Legendary difficulty actually really breaks a lot of campaigns to the point where you have to minmax. You can get away with melee on any other difficulty really. Im currently running a Forest Spirit only run with Durthu on very hard and I'm doing just fine.

As admittedly impressive as Legend is, he speaks for a very specific section of the overall game. When he said Wood Elves got hit with an Economy nerf, he means he can't cheese it anymore. Which most people dont do anyways.

[nenjin]

Yeah my friend says the same thing, the one I've played like 4 150+ turn coop campaigns with on normal. And what I can say is.....the philosophy still exists at normal too. Yeah, you can get by with a diverse army with plenty of melee....but compared to the person doing "Doom and Crap Stacks", you'll be more inefficient than them. Your armies won't dominate as hard, outclass seemingly better foes as well, recover as fast, a lot of things. And therefore you won't expand as rapidly.

Yeah, you can manage with diversity in your roster at normal, and if you're playing solo, well, you really have no basis for comparison other than the AI, who also usually tends to build diverse (suboptimal...) armies. But playing with someone else who is know pretty versed in TW2 mechanics and unit performance....the difference is still clear even at normal. One is highly performant. The other "gets a long." Like in my current DE campaign I just said fuck it, internet says Darkshards w/e Shields are where it's at, let's go with that. Fuck Corsairs, Shades, Cold One Knights, Hydras, Dragons.....just have over half your army as Darkshards w/ Shields, maybe or hero or two, and some melee you don't really care about, and watch your foes liquefy with every volley of shots.

It's not that you can't make it work, it's just that once you know....you know you're settling for a less efficient game in the name of flavor. Your first playthrough or two, that's probably going to be part of the learning process. But for me, having played about 5 factions, my mindset going in now is "Ok, let's sort out the shit from the things that will actually be doing the work." And even in normal, melee ends up on the bad side of that equation a lot. With the rare exception of some monster melee like Varghulfs, Hell Pit Abominations, things of that caliber. Things that regenerate health

When I first started TW2, I went right to Beastmen. And those are some of the most white knuckle battles I've had, even on normal. Not only because I didn't know enough, not only because Mememen can't compete very well with the DLC and revised factions....but because they're almost all melee until you hit like Tier 3+ where you get can overpriced semi-durable ranged, and Tier 5 where you can get Melee/Artillery hybrids. As soon as I played Skaven and DE and had affordable, mass amounts of ranged it was like....holy shit, ranged is so dominant and results in so many 1-sided fights compared to melee.

It painfully reminds me of when I played Chaos in Warhammer Fantasy 3rd edition table top. I wanted a nice melee fight with my brick of decked out Chaos Warriors that cost 40% of my army points and owned 90% of my <3. Win or lose I just wanted a decent battle. What I got instead was every variety of ranged cheese thrown at me so that most of my units were dead before they'd even gotten engaged.

When he said Wood Elves got hit with an Economy nerf

I really hope he wasn't characterizing their immunity to attrition affecting bankruptcy attrition as an "economy nerf."

[Persus13]

Melee units also tend to do worse or better depending on what unit sizes you use, iirc.

[Teneb]

Well, its campaign. The moment you can build a doomstack balance goes straight out the window.

I still do balanced armies most of the time because I have more fun with it, but multiplayer is where melee shines. Taking more ranged than melee as any faction other than Vampirates (or maybe in some meme builds) is asking to be crushed.

Of course, if you don't care about MP you can instead stop worrying and learn to love the doomstack.

Melee units also tend to do worse or better depending on what unit sizes you use, iirc.

The game is 100% balanced around Large sizes, but I am a pleb who plays on medium to get smooth framerates when facing skaven blobs and such nonsense.

[nenjin]

Of course, if you don't care about MP you can instead stop worrying and learn to love the doomstack.

Ech, I know. Just always makes me a little bummed that I feel compelled to jettison the cool stuff in favor of what results in broken 1-sided fights and "lel get outta here" auto resolves.

[Mech#4]

With the change to Penumbral Pendulum, I believe it was it's non-armour piercing damage which was reduced. So overcasting the spell still does something like 75 AP it just does about 35 non AP damage. I think normal cast it does 35/35 damage and AP damage.

[scriver]

But if ranged is so dominant why am I so bad at playing Wood Elves?

[nenjin]

But if ranged is so dominant why am I so bad at playing Wood Elves?

Cause you gotta bait the AI into walking into your arrow storms. Usually like, your lord, hero and maybe a unit of melee or two can be enough to tie up all the enemy's melee long enough that your ranged can just focus fire down one unit at a time. That's typically how I've done it. Although I would mention, DE and Skaven both have low level, armor piercing missile units which makes a big difference. I don't know about Wood Elves on that front.

[Teneb]

But if ranged is so dominant why am I so bad at playing Wood Elves?

Cause you gotta bait the AI into walking into your arrow storms. Usually like, your lord, hero and maybe a unit of melee or two can be enough to tie up all the enemy's melee long enough that your ranged can just focus fire down one unit at a time. That's typically how I've done it. Although I would mention, DE and Skaven both have low level, armor piercing missile units which makes a big difference. I don't know about Wood Elves on that front.

Sometimes you also want to disable fire-at-will if you are facing a shielded frontline. Move your archers to the flanks and then toggle it back on.

Shields are crazy strong in the newer TWs.