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What's your opinion on free will?

I am religious and believe in free will
- 70 (27.6%)
I am religious and do not believe in free will
- 10 (3.9%)
I am not religious and believe in free will
- 113 (44.5%)
I am not religious and do not believe in free will
- 61 (24%)

Total Members Voted: 249


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Author Topic: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion  (Read 582176 times)

Angle

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #1695 on: April 07, 2015, 11:59:04 pm »

By "Believe in an objective universe", I mean that I think it exists, in much the same way I believe the computer I'm typing on exists.
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SirQuiamus

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #1696 on: April 08, 2015, 04:23:50 am »

A question for the atheists: If you had the option of an afterlife, would you take it?
The big question is: "Is there beer in the afterlife?"

...but seriously, no. I would reject any offer of resurrection, because whatever I'd be in the afterlife, it wouldn't be me. "I" am this particular human-shaped slice of space-time, and that's all there is to it.

EDIT:
I didn't mean I had active belief in the universe, I was just prompted to be introspective and that seemed like a good starting point. Religion and the nature of the universe rarely factor into my decision-making.
By "Believe in an objective universe", I mean that I think it exists, in much the same way I believe the computer I'm typing on exists.
"I strongly believe in the existence of the universe! No, I'm not crazy – I'm just doing philosophy!"
...something something Wittgenstein language-game.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2015, 04:43:28 am by surqimus »
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Arx

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #1697 on: April 08, 2015, 05:00:18 am »

A question for the atheists: If you had the option of an afterlife, would you take it?
The big question is: "Is there beer in the afterlife?"

...but seriously, no. I would reject any offer of resurrection, because whatever I'd be in the afterlife, it wouldn't be me. "I" am this particular human-shaped slice of space-time, and that's all there is to it.

Out of curiosity, does that mean that you believe your self terminates every time you lose consciousness?
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TD1

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #1698 on: April 08, 2015, 07:40:37 am »

I've never understood that line of reasoning - when, for example, you sleep you still dream. When the conscious is out of it, the subconscious takes over. It's not you, precisely, but it is a part of you.
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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #1699 on: April 08, 2015, 09:18:46 am »

I've never understood that line of reasoning - when, for example, you sleep you still dream.

Only during one stage of sleep
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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #1700 on: April 08, 2015, 09:44:57 am »

The logical extension of the "Die every time you are unconscious" argument, is that you are constantly, continually, dieing--- until you are completely dead.

This is because it is predicated on the notion that you cease being "you" when something intrinsic about that "you" changes. So, every time you learn something new, you cease being "You", and become that new, more knowing future you. Past you is dead.

I hold that this is an absurd position to take, and so consider the entire string or philosophical sophistry that is woven into that tapestry to be unworthy of consideration; it would require a universe without change to permit "you" to exist in that fashion in any meaningful way.  The creator of the statement "died" at least a dozen times trying to write it!

:D

I define "myself" (as an abstract concept) as the evolving computational process that gives rise to my consciousness.  That process can theoretically be simulated on any number of substrates, and perhaps even directly duplicated. As such, the idea of an "afterlife" is not outside the scope of rational consideration. In the intervening years between now and my eventual physical death, technology to permit the continuation of that process artificially on new substrates may come to exist-- At which point, a genuine, physical "afterlife" (a life after physical death) would be real and tangible.  Further, even further down the road in the future, it may be possible to collect a state-sample from processes that have already terminated. (Time is not as fixed as some people believe it to be, but causality does indeed seem to hold sway here.  Since these processes did indeed exist, the effects they had on their local environment may be sufficient to reconstitute them perfectly later. Say for instance, a post-mortem connective scan of their brains, ran through a reconstructive computer program, then fed into the afterlife simulation. Even further down the line, who knows what the future may hold there.) The "supernatural" kind of afterlife is basically the same kind of thing, just where the simulation is being run on a substrate that is outside the makeup of the physical universe, and due to this outside nature, is able to sample the processes it allows to continue non-destructively, continually, and just allows them to continue past death on the new substrate.

Since I have no way of proving nor disproving that such a modality of existence is possible or impossible, I cannot make a value determination either for or against. That is why I am agnostic, and not theistic or atheistic.

 
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TD1

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #1701 on: April 08, 2015, 10:09:16 am »

I leaned away from agnosticism quite recently, mainly because yes, you can have something which is unverifiable, but that doesn't mean it should be given even a probability. For example, The Seven from Game of Thrones exist- this statement is unverifiable, but that does not mean we would say it might be true or believable.
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penguinofhonor

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #1702 on: April 08, 2015, 10:53:51 am »

.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2015, 06:29:52 pm by penguinofhonor »
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Frumple

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #1703 on: April 08, 2015, 11:11:19 am »

I feel like people give more significance to certain things solely because they're valued by other people.
Annnd... fixed.

Of course people give more significance to things a lot of other people value, for several different reasons. That's not a phenomena unique to religion, agnostics, or unverifiable things.
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SirQuiamus

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #1704 on: April 08, 2015, 11:12:15 am »

A question for the atheists: If you had the option of an afterlife, would you take it?
The big question is: "Is there beer in the afterlife?"

...but seriously, no. I would reject any offer of resurrection, because whatever I'd be in the afterlife, it wouldn't be me. "I" am this particular human-shaped slice of space-time, and that's all there is to it.

Out of curiosity, does that mean that you believe your self terminates every time you lose consciousness?
That does not necessarily follow from what I said above. In my opinion, the self is neither consciousness, nor the abstract, disembodied pattern of my atoms, and certainly not a supernatural "ghost in the machine." If there is any such thing as "I," it is this particular physical phenomenon, extending all the way from the womb to the grave. (And such things as "consciousness" and "personality" are nothing but epiphenomenal trinkets.) 
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Arx

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #1705 on: April 08, 2015, 11:14:03 am »

But why should it have to end at the grave?
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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #1706 on: April 08, 2015, 11:22:28 am »

Why shouldn't it?
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SirQuiamus

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #1707 on: April 08, 2015, 11:23:24 am »

Why shouldn't it?
This.

EDIT:
But why should it have to end at the grave?
Because that's what I am by definition, like I said above.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2015, 11:27:17 am by surqimus »
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Arx

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #1708 on: April 08, 2015, 11:25:01 am »

Ah, we encounter the fundamental issue with trying to understand spirituality. It's a pretty good answer, though.
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penguinofhonor

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Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: Yet Another Thread
« Reply #1709 on: April 08, 2015, 11:28:13 am »

.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2015, 06:29:57 pm by penguinofhonor »
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