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I am religious and believe in free will

70 (27.6%)

I am religious and do not believe in free will

10 (3.9%)

I am not religious and believe in free will

113 (44.5%)

I am not religious and do not believe in free will

61 (24%)

Total Members Voted: 249

[Angle]

The illusion of, yes, but the existence of an OOO God automatically invalidates free will.

Wait, aren't you chistian? I are confused.

[i2amroy]

The illusion of, yes, but the existence of an OOO God automatically invalidates free will.

Wait, aren't you chistian? I are confused.

Bay 12, the place where we can end up with nonreligious people arguing for religions and religious ones arguing against them.

[Orange Wizard]

... what?

In this hypothetical we're clearly assuming Christianity is correct because it takes place with the Christian God in heaven. I'd assume various Christian ideas like free will are also true in this situation.

Oh.
Free will isn't a Christian idea. Many churches hold to it, but there's little (depending on interpretation) Biblical basis for it, and as we've discussed to death, we can't reconcile an all-powerful God with free will in people.

It is impossible to explain to someone who has never experienced it. Heaven is the full presence of god. In heaven, everyone from every tongue and every nation will worship the lord. It sounds boring unless you realize how little that is compared to what God has done for you.

For most people, it sounds like something out of 1984, but with fewer moustaches.

[Angle]

I'm sure the germans would be happy to make up the moustache deficient.

[Orange Wizard]

Where's Helgo when you need him?

[Rolan7]

Don't worry Orange Wizard, your mustache is all we need 

I knew that some Christians don't believe in free will, but I'm not sure how they solve the problem of evil.  If God is all powerful, all knowing, *and* doesn't mind messing with our minds, then why doesn't he?

I talked to a Calvinist back in college who was upfront about God being wrathful and not particularly kind.  Which (mostly) explains why he doesn't fix our problems, or do anything tangible to encourage belief.  She didn't believe in free will either, some people are just destined to go to Hell.  It was a rather creepy conversation because she seemed resigned to obey an unkind God on threat of Hell.

I mention this because her position seems like the most reasonable one if one believes in God, particularly if they don't believe in free will.

[Magistrum]

I believe both in a all-powerful God and free will.
Now, I wouldn't like to make a big discussion, but god don't make everything bad go for reasons, guys.

[TD1]

It is impossible to explain to someone who has never experienced it. Heaven is the full presence of god. In heaven, everyone from every tongue and every nation will worship the lord. It sounds boring unless you realize how little that is compared to what God has done for you.

Does it say this in the Bible? I must admit to not having read the thing since sunday school. No horns have grown yet

[i2amroy]

It is impossible to explain to someone who has never experienced it. Heaven is the full presence of god. In heaven, everyone from every tongue and every nation will worship the lord. It sounds boring unless you realize how little that is compared to what God has done for you.

Does it say this in the Bible? I must admit to not having read the thing since sunday school. No horns have grown yet

If I recall my christian upbringing correctly then yeah, at least the every tongue and every nation part is. It's one of the more commonly appearing ideas and as a result it also shows up in a ton of christian music.

The heaven being the full presence of god thing, on the other hand, is one of those spots that tends to change depending on what exact denomination you are, etc. AFAIK.

[origamiscienceguy]

God doesn't (usually) show his full presence to humans on the earth. If they saw his face, they would die. Once we are dead, though, we will go to heaven and be in all his glory forever.

Interesting fact: Moses wanted to see God's face, but God only let him see the back of his head. Moses' face was still glowing hours later.

[Bohandas]

[sarcastic comment redacted]

[TheDarkStar]

God doesn't (usually) show his full presence to humans on the earth. If they saw his face, they would die. Once we are dead, though, we will go to heaven and be in all his glory forever.

Interesting fact: Moses wanted to see God's face, but God only let him see the back of his head. Moses' face was still glowing hours later.

What about Paul/Saul? He saw God (the Father) and Christ while alive.

[Descan]

God doesn't (usually) show his full presence to humans on the earth. If they saw his face, they would die. Once we are dead, though, we will go to heaven and be in all his glory forever.

Interesting fact: Moses wanted to see God's face, but God only let him see the back of his head. Moses' face was still glowing hours later.

What about Paul/Saul? He saw God (the Father) and Christ while alive.

And Jacob wrestled with the wriggler, too. If seeing supposed'ta kill you, what does piledriving the Lord do?

Also, here:

And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.

And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face.

And there's a whole LIST of times everyone saw God face-to-face, here. Fair warning, it is a skeptics website, SAB. But you either get a skeptics website or you get a christian website, there's no real third party these days.

[Orange Wizard]

I suppose this is another instance of God being non-Euclidean geometry and beyond mortal ken.

Alternatively, non-Christians can go with the old "it's nonsense" razor.

[Bohandas]

I suppose this is another instance of God being non-Euclidean geometry and beyond mortal ken.

Iä! Iä! Yah-Sabaoth!