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I am religious and believe in free will

70 (27.6%)

I am religious and do not believe in free will

10 (3.9%)

I am not religious and believe in free will

113 (44.5%)

I am not religious and do not believe in free will

61 (24%)

Total Members Voted: 249

[Bohandas]

Wait, God when he says God talked to him, is he implying that he got new revelations?

Presumably the more normal talking to god stuff. Not sure if your denomination considers it normal, but it's a fairly common thing among, at least, south-eastern US protestant groups, to believe that they fairly regularly converse with god/jesus/etc. I've met a fair handful of people that believe pretty sincerely they've held entirely legitimate, completely real conversations with god, Jesus, and/or various angels. And not feelings, vague directions, or whathaveyou -- straight up "Hello, my name is Bobael, do not worry your eyes will not melt." talks.

It's real damn common for evangelical priests, in particular, from what I've seen -- you can tune in to several of those televised ones and occasionally hear something along the lines of, "I was talking to god last night, and he told me xyz." Rather imagine quite a few of those particular con-men are lyin' out their teeth about it, but there's plenty that have experienced what they believe to be the divine talkin' to 'em.

Severe schizophrenia with auditory hallucinations and delusions of grandeur; That explains quite a lot.

all hail Zun the great sun god of Iceland! Praise the Sun! Praise it!

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/12/08/458928720/icelanders-opposed-to-government-support-for-religion-form-a-religion-of-their-o

The issues raised in the last few paragraphs could have been partially avoided if they went with an established parody/protest religion like Discordianism or FSMism (but not he Church of the Subgenius because part of their dogma actually explicitly involves not being a religion from a tax perspective)

[Rolan7]

Rick Santorum, Senator Ted Cruz, Dr Ben Carson, and Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal have agreed to support a constitutional amendment voiding gay marriages, including existing ones.

Why am I posting this here?  Because of the group which wrote the pledge in the first place:
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/08/24/anti-gay-marriage-group-nom-funded-by-catholic-donors-it-fought-to-keep-secret/

Just...  When I say I'm *afraid of Christianity*, I'm not joking okay?  And it's not an unreasonable phobia.  As a gay atheist I have:
* Been called a noncitizen by the President of the United States (Bush Jr)
* Have to recite a pledge of allegiance which (thanks to relatively recent neocons) puts the country underneath a single God
* Have to use currency which does the same
* Am even less likely to be elected to office than a muslim
* Reached the age of 28 before my right to marry was recognized by the federal government
* Said right has been and is, as above, constantly attacked by the "moral majority".  Real candidates for president are being applauded for promising to strip my basic right to marriage.
* ...  It's actually illegal for gay people to have sex in 17 states, marriage or not:

Fourteen states' statutes purport to ban all forms of sodomy, some including oral intercourse, regardless of the participants' genders: Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Louisiana, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Utah. Four states specifically target their statutes at same-sex relations only: Oklahoma, Kansas[16][17] Kentucky, and Texas.

Do you see that?  Four states, even now, *only* ban the acts between same sex couples.
This is the law of the country I live in.  I *am* oppressed, by Christians, every day.  I don't "hate Christians" I want BASIC CIVIL LIBERTIES.  I want them to let me live my life in peace!  And I'm sure most Christians here are happy to let me do that, but please stop crying "persecution" or "hate" when people want to question the Bible, or suggest that American Christianity is dangerous.  Being disagreed with is not persecution.

Went by the post office yesterday, it was sporting a giant Christmas tree and a santa sleigh.  The US Post Office.
I mean, it's not the Ten Commandments, but this still makes me *uncomfortable* because I am *scared* of what it represents.

Sorta as an aside, something I'm conflicted about...  My loud and proud atheist brother said he doesn't care about Christmas decorations, as long as there's no manger scene.  Basically arguing that Christmas is practically secular nowadays.  This made me conflicted.  On the one hand, yeah, Christmas was formed from pagan rituals and is still highly pagan.  And I enjoy Halloween, which is technically the same situation (formerly pagan, turned Christian, became secular).

But I don't want Christmas to turn secular?  I just don't want to celebrate it.  It's got Christ right there in the name, for one thing.  I'd rather the federal government be secular, and keep dialing back the legislated Christian morality it forces on me.

[Bohandas]

Don't single out Christianity. All of the Abrahamic religions are formed of the same toxic ingredients.

* ...  It's actually illegal for gay people to have sex in 17 states, marriage or not:

Fourteen states' statutes purport to ban all forms of sodomy, some including oral intercourse, regardless of the participants' genders: Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Louisiana, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Utah. Four states specifically target their statutes at same-sex relations only: Oklahoma, Kansas[16][17] Kentucky, and Texas.

I'm surprised that Utah is only on the first list. They are in general the most worthless and backwards state in the union.

I think that they should be forced to make that their motto, "Utah: The Worst State"

[Rolan7]

I don't live under sharia law. But it's true, that would be about as bad. Worse, if enforced fully (but Christian law law isn't enforced fully either, anymore, here).

[Orange Wizard]

Legislating morality is also, ironically, lacking any Biblical support. Christians were never once intended to force their beliefs upon others. It's sort of contrary to the point of living in peace with everyone. Admittedly it's easier to do that if everyone's Christian, but it's hard to make everyone Christian without resorting to crusades.

With regard to Christmas... I dunno. It's hard to say. I guess I'd prefer mainstream Christmas to be secular, and for us religious folks to mind our own business in church. Which is a weird opinion, I guess. I don't want anything to do with the trees and arbitrary gift-giving, but at the same time it makes a lot of people very happy and I don't want to say they're not allowed to be happy unless they first get God stuck between their teeth,

[Orange Wizard]

Yeah, the "true meaning of Christmas" is a pretty minor quibble. Doesn't really matter unless you're going out of your way to be offended.

[Teneb]

all hail Zun the great sun god of Iceland! Praise the Sun! Praise it!

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/12/08/458928720/icelanders-opposed-to-government-support-for-religion-form-a-religion-of-their-o

Praise the lawbringer!

Eh. My family, almost entirely atheist/nonreligious, put up a tree every year and stick an angel on the top instead of a star. Secular enough for us.

Considering the Christmas tree itself is pretty pagan/non-christian, I'd say it's already quite secular (even if people are not aware of it).

[Rolan7]

Just want to reiterate that I really don't mean to attack anyone here with that post...  I'm just really scared.
I want to say the problem is just a vocal Christian minority here in the US, but...  It's not really a minority :/  While many American Christians are very liberal, the fact remains that "legislating Christian morality" is a hugely successful platform for conservatives to run on.  And since we have a terrible 2-party system, a lot of progressives end up voting against "teh gay" or for "family values".

Like, a lot...  So the issue isn't people here (in the thread), it's people here where I live.  Mostly people who don't discuss religion, just live and vote it.

Legislating morality is also, ironically, lacking any Biblical support. Christians were never once intended to force their beliefs upon others. It's sort of contrary to the point of living in peace with everyone. Admittedly it's easier to do that if everyone's Christian, but it's hard to make everyone Christian without resorting to crusades.

With regard to Christmas... I dunno. It's hard to say. I guess I'd prefer mainstream Christmas to be secular, and for us religious folks to mind our own business in church. Which is a weird opinion, I guess. I don't want anything to do with the trees and arbitrary gift-giving, but at the same time it makes a lot of people very happy and I don't want to say they're not allowed to be happy unless they first get God stuck between their teeth,

I didn't even think of that, but yeah good point.  And sounds like we're on the same page about Christmas.  I'm a little uncomfortable with it personally but if other non-Christians want to celebrate it, cool I guess.

[Bohandas]

Just want to reiterate that I really don't mean to attack anyone here with that post...  I'm just really scared.
I want to say the problem is just a vocal Christian minority here in the US, but...  It's not really a minority :/  While many American Christians are very liberal, the fact remains that "legislating Christian morality" is a hugely successful platform for conservatives to run on.  And since we have a terrible 2-party system, a lot of progressives end up voting against "teh gay" or for "family values".

Ah "family values" the anchor that holds our society back.

Many are the great things we could have achieved if not for them.

In terms of things people need to stop dedicating themselves to and pointlessly promoting, family values are just as bad as organized religion and capitalism

Legislating morality is also, ironically, lacking any Biblical support. Christians were never once intended to force their beliefs upon others. It's sort of contrary to the point of living in peace with everyone. Admittedly it's easier to do that if everyone's Christian, but it's hard to make everyone Christian without resorting to crusades.

With regard to Christmas... I dunno. It's hard to say. I guess I'd prefer mainstream Christmas to be secular, and for us religious folks to mind our own business in church. Which is a weird opinion, I guess. I don't want anything to do with the trees and arbitrary gift-giving, but at the same time it makes a lot of people very happy and I don't want to say they're not allowed to be happy unless they first get God stuck between their teeth,

I didn't even think of that, but yeah good point.  And sounds like we're on the same page about Christmas.  I'm a little uncomfortable with it personally but if other non-Christians want to celebrate it, cool I guess.

I like Revrend Ivan Stang's assessment of the season, "First a pagan holiday and now a shopping season, and I think iy=t was something else in between"

[Loud Whispers]

Just want to reiterate that I really don't mean to attack anyone here with that post... I'm just really scared.
I want to say the problem is just a vocal Muslim minority here in the Eurabia, but... It's not really a minority :/ While many Yuropeanized Muslims are very liberal, the fact remains that "legislating Islamic morality" is a hugely successful platform for cosmopolitans to run on. And since no one is in control of anything anymore, a lot of progressives end up voting against "teh infidel" or for "shariah law."

Like, a lot... So the issue isn't people here (in the thread), it's people here where I live. Mostly people who don't discuss religion, just live and vote it.

[Graknorke]

I don't live under sharia law. But it's true, that would be about as bad. Worse, if enforced fully (but Christian law law isn't enforced fully either, anymore, here).

Pretty sure sharia is harsher. RIP apostates.

[Loud Whispers]

I don't live under sharia law. But it's true, that would be about as bad. Worse, if enforced fully (but Christian law law isn't enforced fully either, anymore, here).

Pretty sure sharia is harsher. RIP apostates.

Gays off building roofs CHEEKI BREEKI

Ah "family values" the anchor that holds our society back.
Many are the great things we could have achieved if not for them.

China holds family values, CHINA STRONK MORAL BACKBONE OF DECADENT AMERICA

In terms of things people need to stop dedicating themselves to and pointlessly promoting, family values are just as bad as organized religion and capitalism

smoek weed ayyy lmao

[Bohandas]

I don't live under sharia law. But it's true, that would be about as bad. Worse, if enforced fully (but Christian law law isn't enforced fully either, anymore, here).

Pretty sure sharia is harsher. RIP apostates.

It's not harsher than christianity. Look up witch trials and the Spanish Inquisition

Just want to reiterate that I really don't mean to attack anyone here with that post... I'm just really scared.
I want to say the problem is just a vocal Muslim minority here in the Eurabia, but... It's not really a minority :/ While many Yuropeanized Muslims are very liberal, the fact remains that "legislating Islamic morality" is a hugely successful platform for cosmopolitans to run on. And since no one is in control of anything anymore, a lot of progressives end up voting against "teh infidel" or for "shariah law."

Like, a lot... So the issue isn't people here (in the thread), it's people here where I live. Mostly people who don't discuss religion, just live and vote it.

How are they progressive then? That's like the polar opposite of progressive.

And what does that comment about "no one is in control of anything anymore" mean and what is it's significance here?

Went by the post office yesterday, it was sporting a giant Christmas tree and a santa sleigh.  The US Post Office.
I mean, it's not the Ten Commandments, but this still makes me *uncomfortable* because I am *scared* of what it represents.

Out of control Capitalism?

[Graknorke]

It's not harsher than christianity. Look up witch trials and the Spanish Inquisition

I think we're talking about canonical laws (implied by "enforced fully")

[Rolan7]

How are they progressive then? That's like the polar opposite of progressive.

And what does that comment about "no one is in control of anything anymore" mean and what is it's significance here?

(He was mirroring my post)
The point is that religious progressives get convinced to vote for regressive religious stuff because of their religion.  I can't speak to Europe with any authority, but I think LW is right that it happens there too.