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What's your opinion on free will?

I am religious and believe in free will
- 70 (27.6%)
I am religious and do not believe in free will
- 10 (3.9%)
I am not religious and believe in free will
- 113 (44.5%)
I am not religious and do not believe in free will
- 61 (24%)

Total Members Voted: 249


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Author Topic: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion  (Read 580303 times)

TD1

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #6195 on: August 11, 2017, 10:07:32 am »

For your greed, for your....avarice.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #6196 on: August 11, 2017, 04:08:55 pm »

For your greed, for your....avarice.
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TD1

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #6197 on: November 17, 2017, 03:43:01 pm »

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/Viral/calls-for-greggs-boycott-after-nativity-scene-jesus-replaced-with-sausage-roll-36322973.html

Personally I thought it was hilarious, but I also saw how it could be insulting. Though it is true that if it were Muhammad, for instance, much more of a ruckus would be present. I suppose they'd also have to somehow give the sausage roll a beard.
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Descan

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #6198 on: November 18, 2017, 06:10:59 pm »

i thought you meant if they replaced baby Jesus with [baby?] Mohammad.
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TD1

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #6199 on: November 18, 2017, 06:19:22 pm »

Nah, if they replaced Mohammad in an image (wait, are they even allowed to do that? Perhaps if they simply created an image) with a sausage roll dressed up to look like him.

Now that would be hilarious. And offensive. And they would kill people. :P
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Egan_BW

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #6200 on: November 18, 2017, 06:24:04 pm »

...Images of Mohammad are not allowed, but does an image of a sausage roll with a beard which you say represents Mohammad count?
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TD1

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #6201 on: November 18, 2017, 06:27:10 pm »

Well, given no image of Mohammad exists, any depiction would be strictly representational. So... if you say it is Mohammad, it counts?

I dunno. Personally, I believe the Prophet tastes delicious either way, and we shouldn't make value judgements.
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smjjames

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #6202 on: November 18, 2017, 06:45:13 pm »

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/Viral/calls-for-greggs-boycott-after-nativity-scene-jesus-replaced-with-sausage-roll-36322973.html

Personally I thought it was hilarious, but I also saw how it could be insulting. Though it is true that if it were Muhammad, for instance, much more of a ruckus would be present. I suppose they'd also have to somehow give the sausage roll a beard.

It's pretty blatant advertising anyways 
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Descan

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #6203 on: November 18, 2017, 06:50:53 pm »

I mean, fair.

But replacing Jesus with Mohammed in a nativity scene would be...

...

I don't even know. What would that even mean?

It sounds like something the Clueless But Well Meaning character on a sitcom would do, to be 'inclusive.'
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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #6204 on: November 18, 2017, 08:03:42 pm »

I shall confess; I would riot. I would be enraged, furious, horrified and truly quite offended. I would throw the damned thing into the fire-place; for both Jesus and Mohammed's sake, because neither would be part of such a ridiculous scheme, I am sure.

Gregg's can go, in the most simple of terms, fuck themselves, if they think this is an amusing, divisive little scheme that will generate sausage-selling PR. Less for featuring Jesus as a sausage, more for being un-original, predictable little try-hard idiots that are evidently in the midst of some sort of life crisis. Cowardly little try-hard idiots, as well; they could not possibly settle for a safer target in the world, I am sure. That is was it irritating me, the hideous, naked cowardice and smugness beneath this exorcise.

No, I agree with the general outrage. Less because it steps on the memory of Jesus (who can stand being trodden on after what the Romans and two thousand years have done to him), but more because it is a calculated, unimaginative and cowardly PR move; to look like the rebellious little scamp without having to risk lives nor profits. I am sure they have their Guardians, however...

I am sure their PR department are undergoing some sort of mid-life crisis; and I hope it is long, gruelling and will remind them that they will soon die, a realisation that I hope will teach them something much more valuable than whatever the course leader on 'sausage selling 101' managed to pass on to them.
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RAM

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #6205 on: November 18, 2017, 09:49:05 pm »

This is one of the things that truly horrifies me about cultural groups that promote themselves outside of their culture and expect awareness of their culture. Evangelical religions are the most relevant example, but the same goes for any such group, for an atheistic example there is the concept of the usage of racial slurs being permitted by the slurred racial group(Which succeeds in perpetuating the presence of the slur by perpetuating its use, perpetuating its status as a terrible terrible thing by denouncing its use, and legitimises the slur by being an openly racist policy that is seen as acceptable. It is basically the worst possible thing that you can do if you want to stop the slur from being used offensively. This is mostly off topic but serves to highlight how ridiculous something can seem when viewed externally and thus serves to illustrate the issues presented by my argument.). It is inherent to the practice that people will be exposed to elements of the culture without knowing the specifics. If you go to great lengths to conceal the concept of the nativity then sure, you can complain that people shouldn't be stealing your culture. If a member of your community is misrepresenting it then you can complain that they are bad at being a member of your community. But sadly, in this instance, the nativity is being blasted out around the world in an effort to say "Look here at the incredibly auspicious beginnings of our special person! If they were so great when they were born then they must be good enough for you to sacrifice your flawed ideals and adopt their perfect ones!". Thus they have freely gifted to the world this example of an auspicious beginning. If someone then wants to reuse this example to promote something else, such as a slab of meat, or if they want to use the scene as their superhero's origin story, or if they want to use it as a contrast by having an extremely lowly entity presented in a very haughty manner for humours effect, such as "Here is this great and wonderful nativity scene... being used to extol radioactive sludge! Ha! Expectations subverted!!!" then there is really no room to complain. It lost any hope of being sacred when it was turned into advertising material and published everywhere that didn't actively stop it.

And let's not forget that advertising in this world, at this time, is inherently disrespectful. Saying that and advertiser is being disrespectful is redundant. If you want them to actually be respectful then you are going to have to hold them up to very much higher standards. Like forcing them to ensure that the cute little wildlife that they are using has a sustainable population. That the beautiful vistas they show their latest pedestrian blender car driving around aren't being destroyed by acid rain, deforestation, high-density immigration... Have their actor playing the role of the joyous friendly host only at the end of spending two consecutive shifts in public service so that they have a proper appreciation of the people they are depicting... Getting into a tizzy over this is like complaining that you don't want to marry an elephant because your children would inherit big-nose genetics. If big noses are a problem for you then yes, legitimate concern, but sort of irrelevant in context because the whole thing is a massive problem and your personal little issue really isn't relevant to addressing your situation. The advertising industry as a whole is in a constant state of demeaning anything and everything that it is aware of. They haven't actually done anything noteworthy here. Every model's image that they edit is a personal insult to everyone who doesn't have the final product, which is, surprise surprise, the entire human race. Every song-and-dance routine is a personal insult towards your relatively song-and-dance deprived life and its blandness. Every jingle, mnemonic, catch-phrase... is a personal insult towards the idea that you might be remembering things that are actually relevant to your instead of their likely inferior product. If people care about thier god's representation in this world being denigrated than they ought to be so immersed in perpetual rage over their constant state of personal and profound insults against the whole of "God's Creation" that a thing like this wouldn't even register.

Of course, the really easy target is the whole depiction of islamic prophets thing. Anyone with even a hint of awareness would plainly see that there are many people in this world who are inclined to depict things that they have heard about. Win but a trace of intellect they would further be incapable of missing that their efforts at evangelism involve constantly extolling the virtues of their religion, which is basically all based upon one guy, and that maybe, just maybe, people outside of their own little land of indoctrination about all their various rules and regulations might hear about it. If they hand even the remotest inclination towards personal integrity then they would put two and two together and realise that any depictions that occur as a result of this have absolutely nothing to do with anyone else and are entirely a consequence of their own actions, and thus any blame for it is entirely upon them for their idiotic policies and nobody else is at fault for following the extremely obvious course of action that stems from those ignorant foolish irresponsible and flawed policies.

People have to accept that in their efforts to increase membership, their religion became public domain, and it is no longer theirs to control or identify with. Feel free to claim total ownership over your own personal use of that religion, but the public image was given away and nobody has any ownership rights by which to be insulted over the handling of that public image.
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Trekkin

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #6206 on: November 19, 2017, 01:23:15 am »

I shall confess; I would riot. I would be enraged, furious, horrified and truly quite offended. I would throw the damned thing into the fire-place; for both Jesus and Mohammed's sake, because neither would be part of such a ridiculous scheme, I am sure.

While I'd be very glad it existed and very disappointed to see it go. Everyone needs their sacred cows turned into hamburgers every now and again, just as a reminder that cows are real to everyone in a way that sanctity is not-- and an inducement to make their peace with that fact in a way that does not necessitate doing nasty things to unbelievers. There isn't a belief out there that someone won't try to shatter just to see the look on the believers' faces; likewise, caring about things invites their graphic, public destruction simply because it will make someone mad or sad and that's funny. Faith demands contempt, equanimity calls for provocation, and stoicism is seen as a personal affront -- but react and it gets infinitely worse, because all attention validates their search for proof they matter.

The world is awash with tiny people with big mouths who would burn it all down just to feel something again, and they'll start with whatever you show them. Accept that, and the trolls wash over you. Fight it, and they fight back, and they will always outnumber you.
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Urist McScoopbeard

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #6207 on: November 19, 2017, 01:48:45 am »

Or just recognize your own limited ability to understanding anything and accept that we're all idiots who basically react the same way to nearly-identical stimuli which only appears to be a counterpoint to whatever you happen to believe on the surface.
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Descan

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #6208 on: November 19, 2017, 11:54:24 pm »

the usage of racial slurs being permitted by the slurred racial group(Which succeeds in perpetuating the presence of the slur by perpetuating its use, perpetuating its status as a terrible terrible thing by denouncing its use, and legitimises the slur by being an openly racist policy that is seen as acceptable. It is basically the worst possible thing that you can do if you want to stop the slur from being used offensively. This is mostly off topic but serves to highlight how ridiculous something can seem when viewed externally and thus serves to illustrate the issues presented by my argument.)
Wow. You... Really don't understand anything about that, do you?
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RAM

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Re: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion
« Reply #6209 on: November 20, 2017, 12:35:40 am »

Wow. You... Really don't understand anything about that, do you?
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