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Author Topic: D&D Alignment discussion  (Read 36880 times)

highmax28

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Re: D&D Alignment discussion
« Reply #45 on: July 17, 2015, 09:09:24 pm »

Does being a vampire give you better stats? I couldn't find that info anywhere in the rulebook. Or is it a homebrew rule?
DM talked to me about making a PC class a lycanthrope, and the DM's handbook says to make the stats match or increase a bit if they already do (leaving the higher ones alone). I asked this because I was thinking about making a barbarian that was inflicted with Lycanthropy (because my 4e game has an NPC dwarf berserker that has it and he teaches the party's werewolf some methods of coping with the disease, and I wanted to recreate him. This was also before I learned shfiters made a comeback and I couldn't make Storm Steelfang, my actual 4e PC I made for my first game of D&D, and sadly, my last character in that).

Storm was an interesting character and was actually insane sort of. He was lawful neutral because he was a very honor based mercenary, but he was afflicted with lycanthropy. So whenever he became a werewolf or raged, he lost all control of himself and became chaotic neutral, and he had tendencies to attack other players in an animalistic bloodlust. He actually kept his temper down a lot, but only raged when he was REALLY boned or really needed someone to die (his only primal attacks were daily powers, which made him auto-rage). He was called steelfang because his teeth were strong enough to bite through steel (22 strength at level 10) if anyone was curious.
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just shot him with a balistic arrow, i think he will get stuned from that >.>

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Jee wilikers, I think Highmax is near invulnerable, must have been dunked in the river styx like achilles was.
Just make sure he wears a boot.

Bohandas

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Re: D&D Alignment discussion
« Reply #46 on: July 17, 2015, 10:41:55 pm »

But in an extreme example, why would someone worship Dread Tharizdun? He just wants to destroy everything, and is genuinely and completely insane. Maybe awe of a being that could create the Abyss and cause the entirety of the gods to rise up against him? Or maybe just the power to decide the fate of basically everything should they succeed at fulfilling Tharizdun's harebrained schemes and avoiding an afterlife altogether?

I think this scene from The Dark Knight is relevant:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efHCdKb5UWc
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: D&D Alignment discussion
« Reply #47 on: July 17, 2015, 11:24:48 pm »

All these anti-alignment and metaphysical alignment peeps, tisk tisk. You all are dismissing the best part of the alignment chart. I ♥ Evil. But why? Because evil is the best way to enjoy your campaign. There's a reason evil campaign stories are so great. And you can play evil, so long as you aren't dumb about it. The real world is full of evil people who are personable and successful.

Lawful Evil: Do you like living in a society? Of course you fucking do, and society is built upon violence. Only the rule of the sword is going to keep degenerates and psychopaths in line with the rule of law. Do you like honoring your enemies? Then Lawful Evil is for you, because while lots of people are dumb the would-be heroes are just mislead about the way things should be. It's a shame, because those of such will are excellent for achieving greater purpose. They don't deserve ire for a lesser philosophy, and they may be brought to see the light. Why would you want to let the worst among us hold us all back? It is for the good of everyone that the great rule over the small. The smartest and the strongest have the right to rule, because by following them all will prosper. Everyone has a part to play, and for sensate sewer rats that part is most certainly not deciding for the common welfare. Yes, it takes strength to lead the whole, even when they complain about the minor inconveniences that provide the best outcomes for an imperfect world. Do you have that strength?

Neutral Evil: You're wasting away. Every second of every day, your time left ticks down, inexorably, unstoppably. One day, that time will be up, and you will be gone from this world. But that's alright, as long as you find your meaning, your fulfillment. Unfortunately, the world is filled to bursting with those who insidiously desire to turn you away from yourself, and to serve their own power. Religion, politics, "morality", they are all greater causes that beseech you with the same message: "Forsake yourself, and spend away this life so that We may succeed in our great project!" Do you wish to die with nothing but the knowledge that you were part of a long and endless chain in but one faction in the war of ideas? There will be no end to it, not while you live, and not ever. By definition it may never end. These things are their own purpose, and what they hold in common is that there is no room for your good. So forsake your comrades, and your countrymen! Live for your own self, for your own sense of the world! Consume what you want, and do what you want, because the only real for you is this, here and now! Laugh, and grow fat!

Chaotic Evil: Almost all, at some point or another, find themselves caught in the dilemma of freedom. Oh, they talk big about being free. Indeed, freedom is inherent to life. Even when oppressors come, and place their boots on the necks of the world, they cannot always watch. They cannot always control. They are limited by their mortal senses and abilities, as well as the ever-shifting collective thoughts of Right Action. They pursue a great folly, and in all irony give themselves away in trying to limit the desires of others.  But I shall say this: "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law."  It is the only real law we have ever had, because to truly enforce a law it must already be a part of our desires. Otherwise, the dissenter and the secret defiler will always persist beyond the eyes of the watchful, in the dark crevices of society where they see not. That's where the real essence of our lives and our happiness is. We're descended from a world of chaos, a world where you took what you wanted, and if some other motherfucker wanted you to lay down and die, you made him lay down and die instead. Do you know why soldiers want to return to the field of battle, even when bad things, horrible things happened to they and their fellows there? It's because that life is a taste. Just a small taste. But a taste nonetheless, of what it is like to really live, to abandon this shadow life and feel your blood flow. Once you've tasted the fruit of life once, you can't help but come back for more. You see, you can hate me all you like, but I'm the only one really trying to help you. I'm the only one trying to make you understand that the only one who can really keep you a slave, is you. If you understood that, you probably wouldn't want to kill me like you clearly do now, writhing around like that. Or maybe you still would. That's the point. That you can decide for yourself, truly for yourself, and be free. So no ideology! No greater good! A true freedom, without constraint, and without limit! Our ancestors lived in the dirt and died every day, but they were happy. Happy because they had no construction demanding they be a cog, that their freedom be tempered by the times. When a person eats, and fucks, and kills, and dies long before their time, they can still die happy, because they did it for themselves and of themselves, instead of for another. You all think you live, but you're plagued constantly by doubt and sorrow. It's because when you lie awake at night, when all is silent, you hear what you deny in the world of light. So much wasted. So much undone. And somewhere, deep in your heart, you already know the answer I'm giving you now.

Oh, but how I see the look in your eyes. Deny it all you like. It's this, and no less, that I want for the whole world. What can I say? I guess I'm just a good samaritan.

tl:dr Evil is viable, tell your friends.
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highmax28

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Re: D&D Alignment discussion
« Reply #48 on: July 17, 2015, 11:31:55 pm »

*claps* That was the best rallying cry for Evil I have ever seen.

I love it.

... Now I want to join up in an evil based campaign...
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just shot him with a balistic arrow, i think he will get stuned from that >.>

"Guardian" and Sigfriend Of Necrothreat
Jee wilikers, I think Highmax is near invulnerable, must have been dunked in the river styx like achilles was.
Just make sure he wears a boot.

Sergius

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Re: D&D Alignment discussion
« Reply #49 on: July 17, 2015, 11:47:48 pm »

MetalSlimeHunt, I agree that playing an evil campaign can be awesome. Everyone can be evil. But I think (not sure) the argument is that you don't need a Wheel of Alignment to tell you that you're being evil. There are many ways in which you can describe how evil you are in your sheet, with complete sentences, just ticking the "[X] Evil" box just seems like a wasted opportunity.

Well that's my opinion, at least.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: D&D Alignment discussion
« Reply #50 on: July 17, 2015, 11:56:30 pm »

The thing is that this one of those universally uncontroversial opinions used to advocate something that doesn't follow. You don't have to be that guy who is really weird and authoritative about alignment with any outside action. Just don't do it. Keeping alignment is perfectly fine. You can write "Chaotic Evil" and then go on to describe how you're the most scary anarchist ever and also literally ripped from Revolver Ocelot's beliefs, because that's what I just did. Doing both is useful for reaching a discernible guideline of what your weird philosophy is.
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To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
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No Gods, No Masters.

highmax28

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Re: D&D Alignment discussion
« Reply #51 on: July 18, 2015, 12:16:21 am »

Both of the neutral evil characters I played were manipulative evil. I play them so people have the idea that he's a truly good person but he does bad things all the time. My current character is doing it because he's doing a lot of evil things because its what HE believes is good (he brutally kills people who deserve to die, commits crimes because he'll do whatever it takes to get stronger, and hes a warlock so he already sold his soul to the devil) but to everyone else, he's an evil f&*%. He does have some morality issues where he is yelled at by his internal feelings who harass him about his deeds, but he's still only neutral evil.

Other evil character was based on Walter O' Dim from the dark tower but he was more tame with his methods (to be perfectly fair, he is borderline chaotic evil as he did a lot of messed up things, but no one could actually tell he did it and they never suspected it to be him). He also worshiped Tharizdun and, if the game progressed, he was supposed to get more insane and get sloppier with his murders/crimes, but he would end up framing one of the party members for it. Sadly, it never got that far because someone got, through magic, that I was a demon worshiper and I killed him to keep him from spilling in front of the party. Things happened and I killed the party leader's boyfriend and she loses her shit because she doesn't know what I look like without my black cloak, and by that night, I hired a group of assassins who came in and killed another player character (one I had no problem with, but sadly got in the way). I also became the party's recurring villian, so that was awesome.

As I said probably in the other thread or here, I made a chaotic evil sorcerer who ate the victims he killed, but the funny thing is he's in the same bloodline as my chaotic neutral character who is on the brink of madness through rage or turning good from the reuniting of his broken family after his brother's death. It was really interesting to say the least. The chaotic evil character was hilarious though because if he managed to succeed the fight, which was a small 1 battle scenario of my character vs another where it was quality vs quantity (and my side, the quantity, canonically wins, but it was decided it may not be THIS fight...), was going to actually devour the other player to taunt her when he won. If my character actually fully survived the battle and made it back, I was going to ask my DM if he could be a fight we deal with later on.

To get back into the swing of things though, I find that the hardest alignment to play is true neutral. They seem apathetic and boring to me, and to be fully honest, a bit lazy in the character development field. Someone care to explain a bit more about them for me?
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just shot him with a balistic arrow, i think he will get stuned from that >.>

"Guardian" and Sigfriend Of Necrothreat
Jee wilikers, I think Highmax is near invulnerable, must have been dunked in the river styx like achilles was.
Just make sure he wears a boot.

Tack

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Re: D&D Alignment discussion
« Reply #52 on: July 18, 2015, 12:19:32 am »

I'm playing a chaotic evil Ogrillon.
Basically kills anyone who he thinks he can get away with.
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scriver

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Re: D&D Alignment discussion
« Reply #53 on: July 18, 2015, 08:47:29 am »

Well, why do people follow evil gods in the first place? In the Forgotten Realms, closest to mainstream evil is Umberlee, who's followed for her sea mojo because the only somewhat-alternative is Talos, who's just as bad or maybe even worse morally, considering he's really an aspect of Gruumsh, god of orcs.

There's Valkur, god of seafaring. But most people who worship gods like Umberlee or Talos won't be people who has them as patron gods, but seeks protection from their spheres of influence anyway. A farmer that serves Chauntea, god of agriculture, will still make offerings to Talos that he does not destroy the autumn harvest with storms, and to Auril to keep hee from making the winters too harsh.


Quote
Talos, who's just as bad or maybe even worse morally, considering he's really an aspect of Gruumsh

Heresy! Lies from a previous age!
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Bohandas

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Re: D&D Alignment discussion
« Reply #54 on: July 18, 2015, 09:11:49 am »

I briefly drew a comic set in the 663rd layer of the Abyss

http://www.mspaforums.com/showthread.php?52649-Ekolid-A-Demonic-Adventure
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Neonivek

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Re: D&D Alignment discussion
« Reply #55 on: July 18, 2015, 09:32:39 am »

Ac 14!?! for a creature on the 663rd layer of hell?
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Bohandas

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Re: D&D Alignment discussion
« Reply #56 on: July 20, 2015, 11:30:37 pm »

Ac 14!?! for a creature on the 663rd layer of hell?

That's before the dexterity bonus

EDIT:
Also they fly and get an extra move action per round, so they can make a full attack and then fly out of reach

EDIT:
But how do you all like the way I've portrayed the supernaturally chaotic evil society of the abyss? (or at least what little depicting I got to do before the project was shelved due to lack of interest)

But in an extreme example, why would someone worship Dread Tharizdun? He just wants to destroy everything, and is genuinely and completely insane. Maybe awe of a being that could create the Abyss and cause the entirety of the gods to rise up against him? Or maybe just the power to decide the fate of basically everything should they succeed at fulfilling Tharizdun's harebrained schemes and avoiding an afterlife altogether?

They could follow him due to a feeling of sour grapes or anger with the world. I know that when I'm feeling angry I usually listen to this

Also, I thought Pale Night created the Abyss

...

...

Regarding Neutral Evil and descriptions of kinds of evil, I've come to regard the Yugoloths as most likely adhering to the sort of philosophy preached by Ayn Rand's character John Galt, and the Marquis de Sade's classic character the Duke of Blangis, where doing evil takes a backseat to "above all, never doing good"
« Last Edit: July 21, 2015, 12:32:01 am by Bohandas »
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: D&D Alignment discussion
« Reply #57 on: July 21, 2015, 12:38:08 am »

I regard it as a more Absolute Egotism. All that is relevant is the Self, therefore exclusive service to the Self is the greatest good.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
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Tack

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Re: D&D Alignment discussion
« Reply #58 on: July 21, 2015, 12:47:33 am »

I've played Chaotic stupid and stupid Good before.
Fun times.

(The way I did SG was that they were very, very naive.)
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Bohandas

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Re: D&D Alignment discussion
« Reply #59 on: July 21, 2015, 01:07:56 am »

I briefly drew a comic set in the 663rd layer of the Abyss

http://www.mspaforums.com/showthread.php?52649-Ekolid-A-Demonic-Adventure

Ac 14!?! for a creature on the 663rd layer of hell?

That's before the dexterity bonus

EDIT:
Also they fly and get an extra move action per round, so they can make a full attack and then fly out of reach

EDIT:
But how do you all like the way I've portrayed the supernaturally chaotic evil society of the abyss? (or at least what little depicting I got to do before the project was shelved due to lack of interest)

I had planned to eventually make it clear that the Cursed Cauldron is essentially a sports bar, with the bloody battles of the Blood War being the "game" that the patrons follow. That they fight the endless Blood War against the Nine Hells purely for amusement.

Also the Sibriex (the "asymmetrical floating head") and the magic talking dagger (the broken image for which I keep meaning to fix) were going to have some backstory. The Sibriex is named Dr.Ortox, and is the physician to the layer's ruler Obox-Ob, in addition to running the general store and indulging in the hobby of causing contagious zombie outbreaks in mind-flayer settlements. I was also planning on using him in another comic where he would be an advisor to the demigod Zagyg Yragerne, along with a Tulani Eladrin (a reference to the trope of an angel and devil on each shoulder used to represent the drives toward good and evil respectively; but since Zagyg is very chaotic he has an Eladrin and an Obryith instead) who is transgendered but won't let Dr.Zortox perform sex-change surgery for fear of the demon pulling some kind of shenanigans. The intelligent dagger was created with the purpose of fomenting bloody and destructive slave uprisings and is a low level psion.

EDIT:
There's also some cultural references hidden there. the bakery scene with the unicorn meat is a reference to the MLP fanfic "Cupcakes" where Pinkie Pie is a cannibal. The bard trying to bean Formicid in the head with a gold violin is a reference to the golden fiddle from "The Devil Went Down To Georgia"
« Last Edit: July 21, 2015, 01:15:28 am by Bohandas »
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