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[hector13]

The border is a consequence of a botched vote come about by Tory arrogance, though. Cameron was convinced that nobody would vote to leave the EU so didn’t put in any caveats about different parts of the UK voting for different things.

Scotland and NI both voted to stay, which really should have stopped Brexit before it even happened, but the “equal partnership” only works when the partners vote with England.

As for Stormont, The unionists don’t want a border with the UK, trade or otherwise, and the Republicans don’t want a border with the rest of Ireland (the island, not the country :p) but neither of them can really get that after Brexit. Currently the Republicans get the benefit of that because politicians domestic, continental, and globa are all terribly aware of the return of terrorism should the GF/BA fall to bits.

Currently there are more members elected to that body that are in favour of the NI Protocol in its original form than against it, so the DUP should really drop the D from their name because democracy is not at the top of their list, but given the unionist position essentially being summed up in this quote, emphasis mine:

Jim Allister, leader of Traditional Unionist Voice (TUV) said the agreement "does not live up to the overselling spin which accompanied it".

"As for it being enough to cause unionists to give up its Stormont leverage and settle for this deal, which comes with the added packaging of a Sinn Fein First Minister, then, no thanks," he said.

I am also not surprised.

Edit: forgot a link to the article the quote comes from.

[ChairmanPoo]

Dont worry TD1. If there's a border poll and you end up in a reeducation camp to learn as gaeilge I'll bribe one of the guards to slip you some black pudding, tomato juice and wostercershire sauce.

[Loud Whispers]

I don't see anyone walking away happy with what Rishi will eventually settle the ROI/NI/UK customs border with, but if something isn't agreed upon, Sinn Fein are going to enact their cunning plan to sit back do nothing and let DUP paralyze local government until Northern Ireland looks less governable than Iraq and as politically viable as Libya

[TD1]

The border issue is the result of a direct appeal to the UK as a single nation, and was advertised and accepted on those terms.

As it happens, it saw England and Wales disagree with Scotland and NI. The majority vote won.

A majority vote which included 44.2% of NI votes.

Otherwise I mostly agree with your summation, though noting once again that the DUP is obliged to uphold and represent the views of its constituents, and what other parties in Stormont feel is (perhaps unfortunately) not as relevant. I'll have to look into polls for clarity.

Dont worry TD1. If there's a border poll and you end up in a reeducation camp to learn as gaeilge I'll bribe one of the guards to slip you some black pudding, tomato juice and wostercershire sauce.

Much appreciated! Though I'm not worried that a border poll will succeed within my lifetime.

And if it does, I'll probably just move to Scotland. I can't imagine it being a healthy period for me.

[TD1]

I don't see anyone walking away happy with what Rishi will eventually settle the ROI/NI/UK customs border with, but if something isn't agreed upon, Sinn Fein are going to enact their cunning plan to sit back do nothing and let DUP paralyze local government until Northern Ireland looks less governable than Iraq and as politically viable as Libya

Indeed. If the flames weren't so close, I'd be enjoying the show.

[Loud Whispers]

Indeed. If the flames weren't so close, I'd be enjoying the show.

I truly advocate for a UK-wide 4 day working week, even a 3 day one. As it is, everyone is too tired and busy to do little more than shout "WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEY" every time a politician or banker cripples the country, just as you would WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEY every time a pub glass breaks

[martinuzz]

I think it was Chomsky that said something along the lines of that we should value and cherish our unemployed, because they are the only ones that still have time and incentive to read up on, and analyze the state of affairs in society.

[jipehog]

The tldr of my opinion is what is actually democractic is not as simple as "People vote and what the majority vote for is what happens". Because following that idea of democracy makes direct democracy tyranny of the majority the ideal, and a pure majority-decides unrestricted Direct Democracy would be closer to Nazi Germany than anything resembling a fair and liberal society. Life for the minority would quickly work out 'nasty, brutish, and short'.

The whole idea behind having a "political class" and constitutions and "unelected" judical branch is to prevent certain things from happening even if elected officials or a majority of people voted for it, and allow certain things to happen even if it goes against majority opinion, and allowing for that to happen in a managed way must be a part of the democractic process.

So the debate if this counts as a legitimate use of that power to keep the wheels actually turning, or a loophole within that neccesary power being used. But the power itself is still fitting and needed into the practical workings of a democracy and vital to the maintainence of it.

Yes, that what I believe in and I agree with all the rest, there is a lot of danger when people do not a bid by the political rules of the game. 

Furthermore, I am struggling to see how liberal society could have been possible without this, as I doubt that most of the monumental and historic decision, like absolutism, could be passed if decision was given to the wider public, certainly not in today age of twitter freeforall version of direct democracy where everyone are pro good things and have an evil elite (coastal or economic) to blame all world folly on.

I truly advocate for a UK-wide 4 day working week, even a 3 day one. As it is, everyone is too tired and busy to do little more than shout "WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEY" every time a politician or banker cripples the country, just as you would WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEY every time a pub glass breaks

Shorter workweek have proved nicely in some places, but I wonder if it is applicable more broadly. The well off would get an extra quality day, but I suspect that for most who are starting their life or in the lower socio economic standing this will not change much, they would be still working full week with extra-pay, failing that get another half time job, and at best could get grandparents a "day off" at home to catch up on stuff.

Protesting would still be the domain of mainly young, single and or those with time on their hands. Btw does your idea involve 4/3 day school week as well?

[Loud Whispers]

Shorter workweek have proved nicely in some places, but I wonder if it is applicable more broadly. The well off would get an extra quality day, but I suspect that for most who are starting their life or in the lower socio economic standing this will not change much, they would be still working full week with extra-pay, failing that get another half time job, and at best could get grandparents a "day off" at home to catch up on stuff.

Protesting would still be the domain of mainly young, single and or those with time on their hands. Btw does your idea involve 4/3 day school week as well?

They'd still be getting overtime for those extra days, or be able to use those extra days to set up their own self-employed businesses - it is a much better alternative to doing nothing and they're still stuck with the 5 day work week anyways. With regards to school week, yeah that sounds fantastic too

I think it was Chomsky that said something along the lines of that we should value and cherish our unemployed, because they are the only ones that still have time and incentive to read up on, and analyze the state of affairs in society.

And the ability to go out in working hours to complain

[scriver]

As an unemployed fucker, I can tell you from the heart, that I may have the incentive and I may have the time but I sure as hell do not have the juice

[MorleyDev]

The main people I know who disagree to a 4day work week are manual labourer workers, mostly builders. I think the studies done show that it less time spent waiting for things to happen because of other people and more time doing the hard work parts, so dunno if that works as well for physical labour? I'm an office monkey through and through so can't really comment beyond that.

[Loud Whispers]

4 day work week wouldn't mean everyone works for 4 days though; it just means they'd be getting what they're paid for now for 4 days of work. People like truckers, healthcare workers, emergency service workers et al. who already have irregular/extended work hours get overtime for all the extra hours they put in for example. With a 3 or 4 day work week, they would still be working 5 days a week, but be getting paid extra for doing it

[martinuzz]

As an unemployed fucker, I can tell you from the heart, that I may have the incentive and I may have the time but I sure as hell do not have the juice

You are not not working hard enough

[jipehog]

4 day work week wouldn't mean everyone works for 4 days though; it just means they'd be getting what they're paid for now for 4 days of work. People like truckers, healthcare workers, emergency service workers et al. who already have irregular/extended work hours get overtime for all the extra hours they put in for example. With a 3 or 4 day work week, they would still be working 5 days a week, but be getting paid extra for doing it

when I first heard about the 4-day workweek concept it involved reducing the traditional workweek from 5 days to 4 days, while maintaining the same number of hours worked per week, essentially the same idea as using double shifting to reducing commute time and winning a free day. However, what you suggest isn't a compressed work schedule, but rather flat reduction of weekly hours e.g. employees will work 32hours a week instead of 40 while receiving the same pay. The idea behind is that shorter workweek increase productivity allowing workers to accomplish the same amount of work.

I don't know about the validity of these claims (I doubt we had enough time to make through long term studies) but I am all for private companies experimenting with such ideas, it is non of my business how they choose to operate. What concerns me is your suggestion to make it mandatory country wide. When obviously some professions will not see any productivity gain from extra day off, thus you are advocate for paying more for doing less which will inevitably lead to increased cost all around. For example, for truckers working less means less cargo delivered, making their companies less competitive, with transport providers already have very low profit margins often struggling to survive this will either cause them to fail or roll the extra cost on their consumer which will effect everything (just like with fuel prices right now).

Otherwise 32 weekly hours (I seen even less) sound like crazy good (especially when compared to 996 culture extreme) the question if you can remain completive with rest of the world, as some of us would gladly take your business and then you can have 7-day unemployment week.

[ChairmanPoo]

What concerns me is your suggestion to make it mandatory country wide. When obviously some professions will not see any productivity gain from extra day off, thus you are advocate for paying more for doing less which will inevitably lead to increased cost all around.

I think you are right. The solution is clearly to maintain the current wages and increase the workdays by one or two per week, thus increasing productivity.