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[scriver]

We are all Negan

[Loud Whispers]

EU Leaders throw spicy meatballs at the USA regarding future trade war, strongly urge US President to reconsider life choices. I wonder if the Germans will finally succeed in replacing the US dollar as the world reserve currency sometime soon. EU lobbyists fear that Chinese steel would flood and obliterate European steel industry in response to the US market closing its rectum, and so would rather maintain status quo. This is all rather hilarious if you consider how salty China is at the EU placing protectionist measures against Chinese steel, for the EU to then get salty about US protectionism. Free trade when it suits me, protectionism when it suits me

[smjjames]

Plus other countries don't particularily like it when we rock the status quo boat, like how some in the EU were grumbling about some parts of the tax bil related to corporations. Though this is way more than merely rocking the boat.

I wonder if they'll wait until Trump actually implements it before putting in their countermeasures or do it before, given how mercurial Trump is.

[martinuzz]

Dutch Tata Steel is sending every lobbyist they can find to the minister of foreign affairs and the US embassy, to make Trump reconsider.
A lot of US companies, like Steel Warehouse, supplier of Caterpillar (which was very helpful in promoting Dutch steel, with their slogan "Ship in Dutch steel only"), heavily depend on Tata Steel's custom width and thickness steel, which isn't made in the US at all. And Tata steel most definitly isn't just 'dumping' steel on the US market. They don't sell under cost price, in fact, the US pays pretty well for the steel, profit margins being higher than with internal EU trade. Worth half a billion per year.
Tariffs wll ruin those US business.
Tata Steel director  Theo Henrar: "We, too, are against the dumping of steel. We also urged the world trade partners to put a stop to China's practice of dumping steel. We think the US should act against that. But measures like that have to be executed precisely, and not just crack down on every and all trade. Now they want to effect Section 223, where, under the guise of national security, a general trade measure is forced on us. That has to be prevented.
If not, countermeasures from our side cannot be prevented. But that is in no one's interest. Then everyone will get, as you say in the US, 'an egg in their face'. I hope the Americans will still see reason. Like, take measures against countries that do actually do dumping, and make exceptions for countries that just trade normally."

[smjjames]

The saying is 'egg on your/their face', not in, though that could easily be a typo rather than mistranslation, or that is quoted word for word.

Trump is just going to double down on it and he somehow thinks winning trade wars is easy and trade wars are good. Which tells you pretty much everything about his attitude towards trade wars.

[Sheb]

This is all rather hilarious if you consider how salty China is at the EU placing protectionist measures against Chinese steel, for the EU to then get salty about US protectionism. Free trade when it suits me, protectionism when it suits me

Well, the thing is everybody agree that the problem is China's overcapacity in steel, fueled by cheap state credit and land, that has started to flood the international market, but the US import very little Chinese steel already. US tariffs are going to stop import from Canada and the EU. Basically, the EUposition is "Free trade with people who don't dump steel on our market", which is actually consistent.

[Loud Whispers]

Well, the thing is everybody agree that the problem is China's overcapacity in steel, fueled by cheap state credit and land, that has started to flood the international market, but the US import very little Chinese steel already. US tariffs are going to stop import from Canada and the EU. Basically, the EUposition is "Free trade with people who don't dump steel on our market", which is actually consistent.

So that bit where the German steel lobbyist said the EU was going to be flooded with foreign steel...?

But VW Stahl, the German steel lobby, said Trump's move threatened to flood the EU market with foreign steel when those countries diverted exports from the US.

"If the EU does not act, our steel industry will pay the bill for protectionism in the US. Europe is threatened by trade diversion by a new steel spill, in a situation where the import crisis in the EU market is far from over," VW Stahl chief Hans Juergen Kerkhoff said, referring to global overcapacity in the sector.

EU position is consistent: USA steel industry can collapse under the weight of foreign steehl rehn, European steel industry cannot. USA must pay the price of protecting EU steel, instead of directing foreign steel to Europe. The codex astartes does not approve of this maneuvre

[Sheb]

Not sure what's your point behind the memes. Of course the EU's steel sector is going to suffer somewhat from the US tariffs...

[Loud Whispers]

Not sure what's your point behind the memes. Of course the EU's steel sector is going to suffer somewhat from the US tariffs...

Mostly just memes tbh, I don't seriously fault the EU for looking out for the EU, that'd just be silly. Add that to how the EU produces more steel than the USA, higher quality steel than the USA, causes less ecological damage than the USA (not that hard tbh) and has less flexibility in solving an international issue, for what is to the USA a national issue, the situation the USA and EU face in the face of unlimited Chinese steel is similar but not the same. On this level the EU is being reasonable, on a superficial level, it's open for terrible jokes in the terrible joking thread

[Ametsala]

You know that both US and EU already have tariffs for Chinese steel, right? (e.g. EU, US)

Just read in the news today* that when the tariffs were introduced, third parties like Vietnam suddenly started importing ten times more steel, i.e. China is circumventing the tariffs.

*It was in Finnish, so I'm not going to dig it up. (and I don't feel like googling for "China Steel Tariff" to search for English sources)

The Trump tariffs try to block this circumvention by tariffing steel from all countries. This will result in less steel going to the US, and more to the EU, i.e. US's protectionist tariffs flood EU market with Chinese steel that's gotten a new paint job in Vietnam (as well as a whole bunch of other steel).

Btw, reading that salty Chinese article was a bit weird before I realized it's an opinion by PRC's EU guy and that Politico hasn't been bought by PRC's propaganda department

[Loud Whispers]

Btw, reading that salty Chinese article was a bit weird before I realized it's an opinion by PRC's EU guy and that Politico hasn't been bought by PRC's propaganda department

yet

[ChairmanPoo]

So the italian election has resulted in a hung parliament (which is not unusual in itself). What is unusual is that with the tanking of Forza Italia the far right Lega Nord have become the de facto leaders of the right wing coalition, and the major party in the left  is the Five Star movement  (aka kind of like Syritza and Podemos) with the tanking of the PD. Coalitions between FI and the PD wouldbt be able to form a goverment. Coalitions between LN and M5S are.. unlikely.

we'll see what happens, I guess. I'm betting on a repeat election soonish

[andrea]

Mostly accurate, but I wouldn't say that M5S is in the left. They have opinions ranging all across the spectrum and in many things they are close to LN actually. But they aren't centrists either. It may be better described as a realignment on a third axis, leaving the left as an outsider.

It is important to note that the vote is very geographically split: the south voted M5S, while the north voted the right wing coalition (with a few small red spots)

[Baffler]

They're either schizophrenic or opportunistic shapeshifters depending on who you ask. I understand the south mostly votes for them because of their Citizen's Income scheme, and because they promise to do something about the massive waves of illegal immigrants like the right coalition but without being Euro-skeptic. Although like most of their other positions, who knows how long that'll last.

[andrea]

They are Euro-skeptics, although they became a bit more moderate on that in the recent period.