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Worldmap: What style would you prefer?

Icons, like ASCII but prettier.
Hand-drawn, like an old-timey sepia map.
Full graphics, like JRPGs with full-on sprites.
Same as the tileset ingame. Forests would use the tree sprite, mountains a rock sprite, etc.
Other. Please post your ideas/examples.

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Author Topic: ☼Meph Tileset☼ V5.5 (32x32) - 47.05 - offline  (Read 881999 times)

Meph

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Re: ☼Meph Tileset☼ V5.5 (32x32) - 47.05 - updated 07th March by Novaris
« Reply #2760 on: November 14, 2021, 02:46:39 am »

Vettlingr I did answer your PM, but just be very clear: You are absolutely correct, I do use Denzis bones and nice bone-color-palettes that I found online. Both of which are free to be used according to their license. In my own, free, non-commercial tileset.
It is an impossibility that all are free-to-distribute licenses, maybe these two are, but I have looked over others which I know are not.

Also I know that you didn't draw anything yourself in your tileset, everything is ripped, stripped or jumbled/mishmashed together.

If Everything is from free licenses and nothing is original content:

It is not your work and it is not your tileset.

You can even claim it so don't even try

I think it would be better to continue this discussion here.

Just going to say that there is original content in there, but they main aim of this tileset was to give players the opportunity to play with Obsidian Souls and Dibujors 32x32 sprites. And there is a lot under the hood, with modding, that's original content from my end. It's not just the pretty pictures, which I prefer to take from open-source sites instead of drawing them myself (because it's quite frankly much less work and the quality is higher than if I do them myself), but it's about giving players accessability to those pretty pictures. Bugfixing and playtesting and wrangling with dfhack and twbt to get everything working in DF.
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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
::: WorldBicyclist.com - Follow my bike tours around the world - 148 countries visited :::

Meph

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Re: ☼Meph Tileset☼ V5.5 (32x32) - 47.05 - updated 07th March by Novaris
« Reply #2761 on: November 14, 2021, 02:53:26 am »

It's entirely possible that I missed giving credit to some sprites, because there are a lot, but usually I'm quite clear about where I got the sprites from.

The quote myself from the opening post:
Quote
The Meph tileset is the first graphical 32x32 tileset for Dwarf Fortress. It was born from my research about tilesets, finding old, abandoned 24x and 32x sprites by Dibujor and Obsidian Soul, both inactive since 2015. I thought that their sprites are too good to waste and started with them as a basis for a new tileset.

This tileset also uses some of Utkonos 24x creatures sprites for monsters, upscaled and smoothed to 32x, and a few of Dorens 24x machinery tiles. Thank you both! About 600 of the creatures are newly done in 32x. Vordak was so kind to make a new dwarf-spritesheet for this set, which is now included as well.

Or this one:
I made only about half the sprites myself, the other half I took from open-source/creative-commons material. The largest credit deserves Denzi.

Original artwork by:
Quote
Copyright/Attribution Notice:
DENZI部屋のドット絵フリー素材は、クリエイティブ・コモンズ・ライセンス (http://www3.wind.ne.jp/DENZI/diary/) に基づいて公開しています。 (CC-by SA 表示-継承) https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ --- Medicine's crappy translation: "DENZI Room's pixel art (published at http://www3.wind.ne.jp/DENZI/diary/) is free material under the Creative Commons license (CC-BY-SA attribution, share alike) https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"
Quote
OpenGameArt.org
Quote
www.spriters-resource.com
Quote
Stormbolts Angband Creature Set
Quote
Stephen "Redshrike" Challener
Quote
Jorge BF @ jbfproject
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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
::: WorldBicyclist.com - Follow my bike tours around the world - 148 countries visited :::

vettlingr

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Re: ☼Meph Tileset☼ V5.5 (32x32) - 47.05 - updated 07th March by Novaris
« Reply #2762 on: November 14, 2021, 03:56:11 am »

Wow, I will definetly! Thanks!
For the time being, i prohibit any of my content or derived content to be used with this mismatched "compilation" of tiles.

I have looked over the credits for this and the result is

Beyond abysmal.

I'm at a loss, since I have never seen anything this bad
Not only are there credits missing, the authors own original tiles are also non-existant.
99% of this "set" is borrowed from other sources. I guess it was only a matter of time til I found out.

In all my years of sprite artistry I have never seen anything that is close to this magnitude

It is impossible that all the sources I have accumulated from this have a free-to-distribute or a patreon-donation license. I've actually found a few that would not allow it.

Absolute madness.

It's entirely possible that I missed giving credit to some sprites, because there are a lot, but usually I'm quite clear about where I got the sprites from.

The quote myself from the opening post:
Quote
The Meph tileset is the first graphical 32x32 tileset for Dwarf Fortress. It was born from my research about tilesets, finding old, abandoned 24x and 32x sprites by Dibujor and Obsidian Soul, both inactive since 2015. I thought that their sprites are too good to waste and started with them as a basis for a new tileset.

This tileset also uses some of Utkonos 24x creatures sprites for monsters, upscaled and smoothed to 32x, and a few of Dorens 24x machinery tiles. Thank you both! About 600 of the creatures are newly done in 32x. Vordak was so kind to make a new dwarf-spritesheet for this set, which is now included as well.

Or this one:
I made only about half the sprites myself, the other half I took from open-source/creative-commons material. The largest credit deserves Denzi.

Original artwork by:
Quote
Copyright/Attribution Notice:
DENZI部屋のドット絵フリー素材は、クリエイティブ・コモンズ・ライセンス (http://www3.wind.ne.jp/DENZI/diary/) に基づいて公開しています。 (CC-by SA 表示-継承) https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ --- Medicine's crappy translation: "DENZI Room's pixel art (published at http://www3.wind.ne.jp/DENZI/diary/) is free material under the Creative Commons license (CC-BY-SA attribution, share alike) https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"
Quote
OpenGameArt.org
Quote
www.spriters-resource.com
Quote
Stormbolts Angband Creature Set
Quote
Stephen "Redshrike" Challener
Quote
Jorge BF @ jbfproject

How does this even come close to being sufficent?? You are a developer, you have to be more professional than this!

Stormbolts Angband Creature Set - can't find it.
Which part of spriters-resource? because I sure can't find it.
Jorge BF @ jbfproject - Who/What is this?
Stephen "Redshrike" Challener - Which tiles?

Also there is still a lot missing.

You have to understand that this is your credability on the line. Not only is it extremely unclear what you actually did yourself. Recolours, refurbisments usually does not count. All your sprite sheet are jumbled as far as creators go with up towards ten different artists on each sheet, the only artist that consistently always seems to be missing is you. You shouldn't have your name anywhere near this.

I have actually been able to track down nearly all of your source material. And there are no tiles so far in this set that I can confirm even being made by you. EVERYTHING is the work of someone else.

And none of this even comes close how you have been basking in the work and talent of others while not doing anything yourself.

I've had to revise all my credits as well, but I am not going to leave you out when I update; because I know you did not make any of it. I may have to take down my tileset because of you.

I don't fancy you wiggling out of this. You have other similar controversies to your name. Figure people would learn after the first time?
While we are at it, may I remind you of the times you attempted to copy me??
https://preview.redd.it/si2ve19ui1571.gif?format=mp4&s=e9a4ba086feaf3047c0126aaf9637a736c554e62
https://i.redd.it/6sjafscr3au31.png
I thought it was fun and cute when you did it, but now I have never been more disgusted. Are you really that uncreative?

Instead of trying to salvage a sinking chip you could help me by telling me where these sprites come from:


but usually I'm quite clear about where I got the sprites from.
You got me fooled, most of reddit fooled and seems like you got toady and kitfox fooled too

Meph

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Re: ☼Meph Tileset☼ V5.5 (32x32) - 47.05 - updated 07th March by Novaris
« Reply #2763 on: November 14, 2021, 04:23:46 am »


Dibujor for the oven. As seen in the opening post of this tileset, the entire set is based on his and obsidian souls sprites. The wall, I don't remember. Probably a single tile from a 32x32 minecraft tileset, which I used as a base for the 16 variants above.

https://i.redd.it/6sjafscr3au31.png => That reddit post has your name in the title. As in "look, vettlingr-style walls".
https://preview.redd.it/si2ve19ui1571.gif?format=mp4&s=e9a4ba086feaf3047c0126aaf9637a736c554e62 => That's made by me, and I did lots of variations of that; the only thing it has in common with your set is that it has a light-color line on the top and uses a similar perspective. Than again, so do all 2.5D walls. I was looking at how prison architect and rimworld was doing walls when I drew those.

If you feel so strongly about it, I'll take the tileset down. I wouldn't want this to reflect in any way negatively to Tarns Steam release.

Quote
You are a developer, you have to be more professional than this!
No, I'm not. I'm a random dude who made some mods and hacked together sprites to work with TWBT in my free time.

Edit: Hope you are happier now.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2021, 05:44:48 am by Meph »
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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
::: WorldBicyclist.com - Follow my bike tours around the world - 148 countries visited :::

Novaris

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Re: ☼Meph Tileset☼ V5.5 (32x32) - 47.05 - offline
« Reply #2764 on: November 14, 2021, 05:08:09 pm »

Following Meph's example I sadly have also taken down the 0.47.05 version of the tileset.
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vettlingr

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XXMeph TilesetXX V5.5 (32x32) - 47.05 - Closed for Copyright infringement
« Reply #2765 on: November 14, 2021, 07:50:08 pm »

Edit: Hope you are happier now.
No, I am not happy. The only thing that would make me happy is if I didn't have to do any of this in the first place.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2021, 08:23:32 pm by vettlingr »
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Ergzay

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Re: XXMeph TilesetXX V5.5 (32x32) - 47.05
« Reply #2766 on: November 14, 2021, 10:14:27 pm »

Edit: Hope you are happier now.
No, I am not happy. The only thing that would make me happy is if I didn't have to do any of this in the first place.

Thanks for ruining things for everyone.
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Matrim_Cauthon

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Re: XXMeph TilesetXX V5.5 (32x32) - 47.05 - Closed for Copyright infringement
« Reply #2767 on: November 14, 2021, 10:59:08 pm »

Edit: Hope you are happier now.
No, I am not happy. The only thing that would make me happy is if I didn't have to do any of this in the first place.
Good, wallow in misery.

There was a way to handle this with a good outcome, several. You decided to take the destructive route here over a hobby mod release not having perfect attribution. Meph has been straightforward and upfront about it's status and has shown nothing but good faith.

Enjoy the scorn of the community.
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vettlingr

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Re: XXMeph TilesetXX V5.5 (32x32) - 47.05 - Closed for Copyright infringement
« Reply #2768 on: November 15, 2021, 12:37:11 am »

Edit: Hope you are happier now.
No, I am not happy. The only thing that would make me happy is if I didn't have to do any of this in the first place.
Good, wallow in misery.

There was a way to handle this with a good outcome, several. You decided to take the destructive route here over a hobby mod release not having perfect attribution. Meph has been straightforward and upfront about it's status and has shown nothing but good faith.

Enjoy the scorn of the community.

this is well warranted and long overdue. 0% original content and uncredited sources and confirmed art theft should not be taken lightly.
He is not straightforward, he is deflecting and vague, a trait that put him in this mess.

I will gladly embrace any scorn from any community member who endorses credit theft and license violation.

Other people who have distributing this may also be libel because of the non-redistribution licensed textures it includes.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2021, 12:48:18 am by vettlingr »
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Cloughmonster

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Re: ☼Meph Tileset☼ V5.5 (32x32) - 47.05 - offline
« Reply #2769 on: November 15, 2021, 04:18:25 am »

Vettlingr,

This graphic pack always claimed to be an amalgamation of other people's work. What Meph did was bring this together into one package that allowed people with more limited skills, such as myself, to access a comprehensive Tileset.

In short, it enhanced my enjoyment of a game I played. It was a fan project created for consumption by other fans.

Some sprites may not be properly accredited. I honestly don't know what the referencing standards for this are, though by looking at your own tileset I see very little difference. Such is the state of free fan creations in general. You have obviously looked into where many of this came from, but instead of using the information to provide credit and improve this tileset, you have instead focused on the possibility some aren't licenced for this use, yet have provided no evidence regarding this.

As for your claim that this reflects poorly on the commercial release, ridiculous. To draw conclusions about a commercial project based on an old community project is inane. As for others being liable (what I assume you mean by libel) that is frankly ridiculous and you yourself would be just as heavily liable, perhaps more so given you obviously believe the work to be discredited yet still use it.

Now, this is gone, a piece of the continued history of Dwarf fortress has been removed from circulation due to your accusations. Did you decide that if you weren't the tallest tree in the forest of creators that you'd chop down those taller than yourself instead of growing?

I will miss this pack, but at least you got to burn the community and feel like you are some moral crusader.
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vettlingr

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Re: ☼Meph Tileset☼ V5.5 (32x32) - 47.05 - offline
« Reply #2770 on: November 15, 2021, 05:00:28 am »

Vettlingr,

Some sprites may not be properly accredited. I honestly don't know what the referencing standards for this are, though by looking at your own tileset I see very little difference. Such is the state of free fan creations in general. You have obviously looked into where many of this came from, but instead of using the information to provide credit and improve this tileset, you have instead focused on the possibility some aren't licenced for this use, yet have provided no evidence regarding this.
That because my tileset does not use textures with a non-redistribution license behind a 25$ paywall. such as the ones meph must have procured from Celianna. Its proof he did swipe sprites outside of any creative commons too
Full license:
"Can only be used in RPG Maker VX and RPG Maker VX Ace, and in NO other game engine. Can not be redistributed or sold as-is. Can be edited however you want. Edits cannot be redistributed. Only for non-commercial usage. For commercial usage, visit the products tab to buy a commercial license."
This author is not credited at all.

You need to understand, that if there is a few knicks and knacks in the credits, that is usually alright. But when a lot of authors are completly omitted in a tleset with 0% original content. You have a whole nother issue.

So far I've gotten
Neorice would like you to know that not crediting him is theft and wants his assets removed.
Cheynezz says that by not crediting her in the finished product, you are committing theft of her assets and wants them removed.

>that is frankly ridiculous and you yourself would be just as heavily libel
Which is why I am outraged, what did you figure??

All you trying to paint me as a villain will only bring more fuel to the fire. This had to be taken down because:
1. I found license violations.
2. I found uncredited work.
3. it lacks original content.
4. It is impossible to account for all sprites.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2021, 12:36:26 pm by vettlingr »
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voliol

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Re: ☼Meph Tileset☼ V5.5 (32x32) - 47.05 - offline
« Reply #2771 on: November 15, 2021, 06:35:39 am »

I feel this is a shame. What parts of it? That this tileset was taken down? That Meph used unattributed sprites, including ones restricted by copyright, and claimed to have made sprites he didn't (possibly, there are conflicting claims and as a third party it's difficult to ascertain anything)? That these kind of copyright issues exist to begin with restricting the access to and natural propagation/remixing of culture? Probably all of the above. In any case, I trust that someone somewhere has saved the Meph Tileset, so it isn't lost to time.

Novaris

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Re: ☼Meph Tileset☼ V5.5 (32x32) - 47.05 - offline
« Reply #2772 on: November 15, 2021, 03:47:18 pm »

I have to agree with vettlingr on his opinion. Even though I hate to see this tileset removed for the moment as I like to play it it would be unfair to offer this tileset without properly crediting its originators. Some may not agree with their art being used in another tileset or may now be pissed, others may be hard to track down. I remember a similar situation with one of the largest tileset collections in CDDA which also was taken down because of similar claims.

But please, don't give vettlingr a hard time for pointing out a mistake in the creation of the tileset. His course of action has merit and, instead of just spilling his guts in the forum, he got first in touch with Meph and myself so we can set the proper actions, which I respect. There may be the possibility to re-open the downloads if we ever figure out all the sources and remove the "not-essential" parts of the tileset which may be controversial, like the additional decorations which really does include art that is not free to use. However, as Meph stated, he does not have time for this as he is working on the Steam release so the future of this tileset lays in the dark.

That said, still I appreciate vettlingr reaching out to me as this may as well have saved my ass from a potential copyright claim so you have my gratitude for this.

To say it the dwarven way:
Vettlingr smashes the download of the Meph tileset with his valid claims.
The download of the Mepth tileset gives into the pain.
... but it may not have died yet ;)
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Rose

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Re: ☼Meph Tileset☼ V5.5 (32x32) - 47.05 - offline
« Reply #2773 on: November 15, 2021, 06:12:18 pm »

Yeah, probably the right thing to do at this point, which will be hard unless records were kept, would be to go through everything and remove anything that doesn't have a verifiable open license.
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Enemy post

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Re: ☼Meph Tileset☼ V5.5 (32x32) - 47.05 - offline
« Reply #2774 on: November 15, 2021, 10:01:42 pm »

I was thinking, the really significant part of the Meph Tileset isn't necessarily the artwork that can't be used, but the underlying code. Could the pack be remade with the same code, but clean art?
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