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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 3676829 times)

scriver

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38565 on: August 09, 2020, 11:10:58 am »

IIRC the Thomas and Friends writer did actually have those attitudes about children and/or fascism, so it's not actually a misapplied interpretation as scriver said

Oh that might go for the children then by I still insist that by a literalist interpretation they are literally trains and thus there's nothing wrong with treating them like trains ;)


Because the particular mode of authority/subservience on Sodor is the big proble

See here, scroll to Thomas, about ⅓rd of the way down.

(Or listen here, when availability allows. But that isn't right now, and though I'm sure it's out there in other forms I shouldn't promote most of them.)

Haha, that's awful, is that really from the books? I haven't actually read any if them myself you see (not being British or American or whichever it is) and I never watched the show because of how eerie and unpleasant it looked
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Reelya

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38566 on: August 09, 2020, 11:24:21 am »

That's definitely not from the books. The organs/brains thing is definitely a parody. It's using Fridge Logic there, which is taking the logical extension of something from a piece of media that's glossed over in the actual series.

the term Fridge Logic comes from the idea that while watching it seems perfectly reasonable, since everyone in the show acts like it's reasonable, then you get up to get something from the fridge and go "hey hold on a minute!". Related term is Fridge Horror, which may be more relevant here. 'Cool' note about Fridge Logic: the idea was coined by Alfred Hitchcock.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2020, 11:31:34 am by Reelya »
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Starver

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38567 on: August 09, 2020, 12:13:05 pm »

(Hmm.. I clipped the end of "...is the big problem?!?", or similar, intending to indicate the politics of the matter being lesser than the deeper analysis...  Thus making my little joke based on someone else's parody look a little more of a serious point than it should be.  And you could read the rest of the transcript to see the kind of humour (with a 'u') John Finnemore does, though really it's probably far better to listen to the real things.  Also look up his series "Cabin Pressure" though that's SitCom not Sketch Show.)

(And though I think they've made loads and loads of newer Thomas episodes, now in CGI like Chuggington, if it isn't filmed with 'live action' models and narrated by an actual Beatle, it's second-best rather than first-Starr.)

(I did not know the Fridge etymology. I learn something new every day. And this now means I can go to bed early!)
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scriver

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38568 on: August 09, 2020, 12:40:41 pm »

I mean I definitely thought it was funny so :D
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misko27

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38569 on: August 09, 2020, 02:27:04 pm »

Me: "I wonder what Bay12 thinks about the breakdown in talks over the stimulus and unemployment protections."

Bay12: Derailed by talking trains.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38570 on: August 09, 2020, 02:32:09 pm »

The breakdown is Trump's election beartrap, and true to form the Dems seem to be walking right into it. Although in fairness, it'll only work because the American people are so wretched to begin with.
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Iduno

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38571 on: August 09, 2020, 04:02:03 pm »

Um.

Please elaborate?

I feel you’re being mightily unfair to Pelosi.

For example, Pelosi is willing to spend trillions of dollars on keeping people in the black during covid, Thatcher was willing to effectively fire 20k coal miners because their mines weren’t economical, resulting in a year long strike by coal miners in Britain. She later privatized coal mining, reducing the number of collieries in the UK, and losing upwards of 200k coal miners their jobs.

There’s a reason that when she died “The Witch Is Dead” was number 2 in the UK music charts.

Yes, but she's only willing to spend trillions on billionaires, and had to be backed against the wall to give any money at all to the majority of Americans.
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Lord Shonus

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38572 on: August 09, 2020, 06:12:00 pm »

You seem to be confused. The bill Pelosi backed keeps the enormous unemployment boost to the average person plus an additional stimulus. It is McConnell that is holding everything up because billionaires aren't getting their cut.
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MrRoboto75

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38573 on: August 09, 2020, 06:29:58 pm »

Me: "I wonder what Bay12 thinks about the breakdown in talks over the stimulus and unemployment protections."

Bay12: Derailed by talking trains.

From what I've read, the tax forbearance from trump's ex order (assuming he's allowed to do it, I'm assuming yet another case of no-one's gonna stop him) only extends to, conveniently enough, January.  After that if nothing else changes, you still end up owing those forborn taxes anyways, and chances are your tax refund goes poof.  It'd have to be nailed down as an actual tax cut to be a real tax-free period.

Trump has outright stated he'll 'nail it down' so to speak should he get his second term.  Presumably Biden could just do the same, but it'd be stonewalled by a repub congress like usual.  Republican'ts are probably going to spin it as Biden upping taxes as soon as he gets there.  Democraps are just going to walk into the obvious trap because they still insist on playing this fair.

Of course, the rest of the stimulus blockage is that repubs can't wrap their head around people actually making more from not being employed over their usual shitty wage slave job, and somehow that's not because actual wages from actual jobs are too damn low.
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Dostoevsky

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38574 on: August 10, 2020, 01:34:31 am »

Yeah, the set of EOs - well, one EO and three "memorandums" - are pretty crummy. See them here, here, here, and here. Also, skip sec. 1 for each of them if you wish to avoid vapid blather and go straight to the actual actions. (The one exception to this rule is in the unemployment one, as sec. 1 unpacks the DRF and CRF acronyms.)

In short, most of these are asking officials to try to do various things, while carefully noting in the last section for each to please not break any laws while trying. This boils down to:

  • Attempt to defer student loan payments for the rest of the calendar year. I think this could work for gov't loans; I'm less sure how private loans would be affected.
  • Try to prevent evictions, real hard-like. And try to use unspecified federal funds to do this.
  • Defer payroll tax payments from September through the end of the year. as MrRoboto75 notes, this is just a delay and not relief, though Trump has claimed he'll get rid of it if elected. Note that Social Security and Medicare get a good deal, if not the vast majority, of their funding via this tax. So, uh, good luck with the consequences of that.
  • Use existing disaster relief funds (DRF) to help people through unemployment help, with the major caveat that states will need to cover 25% of the cost. States are already facing massive revenue shortfalls and facing major fiscal problems - and they can't really run deficits like the federal government can.
  • States should really use existing CARES money (CRF) to help out. Turns out congress wrote the CARES relief fund for states with a major problem - that it can't cover existing budgets, but only new budget items. But most coronavirus response is really within existing budgets, it's just that there's no more revenue to pay for it - so many states can't get the money even though they need it. Trying to fit that money into a new unemployment coverage might actually work in that it'd let states actually access the fund, but the amount of CRF each state gets is probably not large enough to do much. And they might have to fire the people who would be administering it, as those employees are 'existing budget' that the CRF can't help with.
  • Try to do other stuff to help unemployed people, guys under me the president.

Now the really pernicious part about this - and something that Trump is already clued into, unfortunately - is that bringing a legal challenge against likely-illegal actions taken pursuant to these 'orders' will be perceived as trying to block aid to the people. And so I'm a little doubtful Dems (or others, apart from maybe certain libertarians/originalists) will actually challenge it. Which, in turn, will further erode the limitations of executive power like we've seen over the past couple of decades with the expanding reach of the 'War on Terror'.

I guess in short I'm pretty worried about where this will go. There's a decent chance little or unbalanced aid may come from this (e.g. certain red states embrace it), few challenge the authority of it, and Trump still gets the veneer of 'taking strong action' while this country's institutions take another step toward complete dysfunction.


As to congressional dynamics, the biggest problem is that McConnell's Senate Republicans are fractured. Roughly 20 (or so I hear) are vowing to vote against any new spending, which means he'll have to work with Democrats to pass something while simultaneously placating Mr. President. House Democrats are negotiating with a shifting and mercurial White House in the meanwhile, so McConnell's not going to stick his neck out until those negotiations go somewhere. Edit: this is not to say McConnell hasn't been / isn't being terrible in other ways related to this ongoing saga, just noting the current rock-and-hard-place he's put himself into.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 01:48:02 am by Dostoevsky »
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Reelya

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38575 on: August 10, 2020, 02:17:14 am »

Well this is apparently a thing too now

https://www.news.com.au/travel/mount-rushmore-donald-trumps-white-house-asked-about-adding-him-to-monument/news-story/e57458f9b5e9e7b1cd6d26ef64fca7c7

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Over the weekend, The New York Times reported the rather baffling news that an official from Mr Trump’s White House had contacted the office of South Dakota’s Republican Governor, Kristi Noem, and asked about “the process to add additional presidents” to the monument.

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Mr Trump responded to the story on Twitter, though he said putting his face on Mount Rushmore “sounds like a good idea”, repeating his frequent claim that no other president had accomplished as much as him in their first three-and-a-half years in office.

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“He said, ‘Kristi, come on over here. Shake my hand.’ I shook his hand, and I said, ‘Mr President, you should come to South Dakota sometime. We have Mount Rushmore.’ And he goes, ‘Do you know it’s my dream to have my face on Mount Rushmore?’” she said in 2018.

Trump also got a photo taken from an angle that puts his face into the extra lump next to Abraham Lincoln.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 02:25:13 am by Reelya »
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Trolldefender99

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38576 on: August 11, 2020, 03:20:36 pm »

kamala harris was just announced to be biden's VP pick
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TamerVirus

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38577 on: August 11, 2020, 03:29:52 pm »

I'd rather it be Kamala, the Ugandan Giant (rip)
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Lord Shonus

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38578 on: August 11, 2020, 03:33:23 pm »

kamala harris was just announced to be biden's VP pick

Biden's going to have a hard time losing this election, but he sure is trying really hard.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #38579 on: August 11, 2020, 03:35:30 pm »

"Who does the zeitgeist demand within the Democratic base? Ah yes, the segregationist and the cop."

It's a good thing America is going to die in horror before Harris can use this to try and become President Cop.
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