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Author Topic: Wands Race - [Arstotzka] {COMPLETED}  (Read 377012 times)

Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4170 on: August 10, 2017, 08:25:35 pm »

Quote from: evictedSaint (Discord)
evictedSaint - Today at 9:27 PM
wh...the blastballs, which you use to propel your bullets and artillery shells?
they're not really used against armor.
I had assumed you saw this.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

RAM

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4171 on: August 10, 2017, 08:53:53 pm »

Why would anyone see that? It is not in the thread...
The statement is that they are not "used" against armour. Not that they are not "effective" against armour. Given better than medium range and manual or proximity detonation and they would see use and effectiveness.
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Draignean

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4172 on: August 10, 2017, 09:06:28 pm »

Why would anyone see that? It is not in the thread...
The statement is that they are not "used" against armour. Not that they are not "effective" against armour. Given better than medium range and manual or proximity detonation and they would see use and effectiveness.

Proximity trigger blast-flak, to smash the Moskurg air superiority.

Also, quick question, the KPD: it conjures particles with velocity and sends them in a particular direction, right?
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Andres

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4173 on: August 10, 2017, 09:08:56 pm »

Quote from: evictedSaint (Discord)
evictedSaint - Today at 9:27 PM
wh...the blastballs, which you use to propel your bullets and artillery shells?
they're not really used against armor.
I had assumed you saw this.
Considering the thing we use to propel bullets are Small, I can see why we don't use them to destroy armour. It still remains that full sized Powerful Blastballs are what destroys airships.

Glory to Arstotzka.
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4174 on: August 10, 2017, 09:23:19 pm »

Also, quick question, the KPD: it conjures particles with velocity and sends them in a particular direction, right?
Well, the KPD is derived from the Blastball. A Blastball does have a little smoke and exhaust but I don't believe we've been told about how the Blastball works beyond that.


Why would anyone see that? It is not in the thread...
Note how I was replying specifically to Andres, who is in the Discord.

The statement is that they are not "used" against armour. Not that they are not "effective" against armour. Given better than medium range and manual or proximity detonation and they would see use and effectiveness.
I've asked evicted before (though am unable to find specific logs) and have got a similar answer. But yes, "used" is mildly vague and I asked evicted about it more specifically an hour ago though he's yet to respond.


Considering the thing we use to propel bullets are Small, I can see why we don't use them to destroy armour. It still remains that full sized Powerful Blastballs are what destroys airships.
This is misleading.
We use three Blastballs to propel a single HA1 shell. And "Blastball" doesn't just mean SPSF-C, the weaker variant. It also refers to PSF-C. It's just used to refer to the concussive variants of Fireballs.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

Andres

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4175 on: August 10, 2017, 10:02:22 pm »

This needs to be cleared up by the GM. I cannot accept that the thing we've been using to take out their armoured airship is now for some reason unable to do exactly that.
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RAM

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4176 on: August 10, 2017, 11:50:07 pm »

Even if they didn't break open airships, the airships are floating in air, they have nothing heavy to brace against. Explosions in their viscinity would shake up their internals and make them fall. LLosing all of your lift at that altitude is fatal to everything, which is why reactor explosions don't matter in the air. Also, fireballs have always been antimagic immune once cast. So a fireball derivative that causes explosions instead of fire, which is a thing I proposed ages ago, frequently, including air-burst variants, would drop airships. Not necessarily on the first shot, but it would be as effective as depth-charges except that depth-charges have difficulty seeing their target. Obviously water is denser than air and transfers a blast more effectively, but this is a magical blast that creates it own mass to fill-in its vacuum, they magically make a much more depth-chargey blast than conventional surface-explosives do.

Granted, with all our effort in cannons, they will still get more range and more concentrated force than our fireball derivatives will, so I wouldn't count them out, but it is worth noting that the propulsion system is terrible for cannons. They are a constant effect, for sustained force rather than sudden force. I assume that they are terrible at producing wind, given that:
If we try to compete with Moskurg in wind magic, we will lose.
So they are not coing to be a sustained pressure-force within the barrel, so what counts is getting as much pressure as possible when it is as concentrated as possible, because once the bullet starts moving along the barrel, it increases the space behind it, rapidly depressurising that space and reducing the force propelling the bullet. A sustained-force propellant CAN be use to SUPPORT an explosion, but it will be ridiculously inefficient as an initial blast. Also, since the propulsion is surface-bases, and we cannot produce wind, it will need to be attached to the bullet instead of the cannon, which means that the propulsion equipment will not be reused and the bullet needs to incorporate it, which means lighter bullets with a higher price-tag. We can have rocket-propelled bullets as a niche item, but we are going to need traditional explosions to propel them, and the rest of our armaments will need traditional explosions or a complete redesign of our cannons, perhaps into some sort of railed catapult, which, again, is a horrible idea because it is basically a powered shot-put, which is terrible. It would lack power, destroy itself after a few shots, would still be better with an explosion to push it off... You could try some sort of power-assisted trebuchet, but then you lose all your accuracy, and thus have no range regardless of how far the bullets travel.

Really, the only way a sustained-force cannon works is by creating a wind-tunnel, and as we all know:
If we try to compete with Moskurg in wind magic, we will lose.
Not that I actually agree with the above quote, but in this instance, yes, a constant effect compared to a burst effect, the burst is required for a cannon, the constant effect can be a cute gimmick, but is never going to hold the line. The wind0magic they use to push their bullets is inferior to the explosion magic that we use to push our shells.
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4177 on: August 10, 2017, 11:56:40 pm »

Potential Design: AS-HA2

The next evolution in artillery warfare, the HA2 introduces many new benefits that will cement its title as the successor to the HA1.

The HA2 is constructed utilizing crystal, and possesses a crystal-glass "shield" extending a bit outward and curving slightly inwards to protect the crew from (upper-)forward projectiles. Mechanisms allow for angling the barrel up/down easily and more-so than the HA1. Behind the shield and under the barrel is a much smaller Aether Reactor Mk. 2. This reactor is obviously similar to the one located in the Lightning, but is much smaller to avoid unnecessary expense, size, and weight. The Reactor does generate more power than needed, but not by a large amount - enough for future expansions (such as fabricating crystal inside the barrel).

The biggest change in the HA2 is the propellant.
Blastballs have long been outdated by the KPD. The KPD4 utilizes directional constant thrust that can be easily changed and its thrust distribution can be changed in real time by a human operator. Compare this to the Blastball - a single set-power unfocused (and weak) explosion.
The HA2 is moving to the future by incorporating the KPD4 instead of Blastballs. Perhaps the biggest advantage of the KPD4 is its more-directional thrust. This allows for us to greatly increase the power of the propellant without having to worry about the structural integrity of the barrel. Though of course we won't be using constant thrust, and will be needing a significantly smaller power input than that required by the Lightning.

The KPD4 propellant will allow for a much faster and longer-ranged projectile, and the scaled Aether Reactor will allow for no reliance on wizards.

A small set of dials located behind the shield allow for the crew to configure the KPD4 to allow for much more dynamic, quicker, and easier aiming. The power can be changed to accommodate for different ranges (and potentially ammunition types) without having to adjust the barrel at all.
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

RAM

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4178 on: August 11, 2017, 01:16:17 am »

Where is the evidence that K.P.D.5 is more powerful? We put all of the effort into making it more controlled. But a cannon already controls it, we needed control outside of a cannon. Being more efficient might help, but it doesn't change the fact that K.P.D.5 works on a surface, and a cannon works within an area. How is the thrust going to jump from the cannon to the projectile when the projectile leaves the surface of the chamber? Oh. right, of course, it is along the entire length of the barrel, oh wait, there goes all our efficiency and it introduces barrel wear and weakens rifling. K.P.D.5 is not "more explosion" it is "different explosion". Now, sure, maybe the experience that we have with K.P.D.5 can be refined into a better explosion, but K.P.D.5 is not an explosion and is terrible for cannons because of it.

Unless you don;'t want that. I want to actually play a design game. Where we actually have designs with actual properties, rather than just "we research 'more power'" "we use 'more power' to make all the things more powerful!". I mean, sure, if the G.M. is willing to let your get away with completely generic designs then you can win a game that way, but the journey is dead boring.
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evictedSaint

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4179 on: August 11, 2017, 01:31:31 am »

I feel like this is a good time to remind everyone about the salt rules.  Please feel free to glance over the list; I'll repost it here to make rereading it easier for everyone.  I would like to - in particular - urge everyone to at least make sure they've read the #1 Rule.

Salt Rules
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 01:33:28 am by evictedSaint »
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4180 on: August 11, 2017, 01:44:20 am »

RAM, you seem to think that the KPD is different than what it actually is. But I can see it fairly annoying to track what changes and what's kept between four generations of the KPD so I've outlined the changes for you and anyone else who happens to be lost.

Design: ASAF-F43 Interceptor [1-1, 2+1+1, 4]

...

The method of flight is via a very precise PSF-C propulsion method; attempts to create an "on-going explosion" didn't quite pan out, but it is possible to instead fire off a PSF-C four times a second to create a similar effect.  This is referred to proudly as the Kinetic Propulsion Drive.
KPD1
The first one. The KPD1 is simple. We're just detonating 4 PSF-Cs a second beneath the craft to make it go up. It ends in disaster because this is a bad idea.


Design: ASAF-F44 "Avenger" [4, 4-1, 4]

...

The KPD Mk.2 is a rather ambitious affair.  Our Mathemagicians analysis of the previous engine showed that an uncontained explosion beneath the craft does provide propulsion, but a large part of the expansion is lost around the edges of the craft.  The blastballs work in our cannons because the muzzle forces the expansion in one direction to provide propulsion; because there's no "muzzle" on the F43 the energy was largely wasted.

We make some progress modifying the propulsion methods of our blastball, but making it directional is a bit tougher than we expected.  It's easier to make the expansion constant, however, so we achieve some partial success on that front.  Using the characteristics of our new blastball spell we can create an engine that generates lift.  The KPD Mk.2 engine is essentially a crystal cup, into which a number of nickel circuits and copper scrollwork is integrated.  We make liberal use of the conductive/non-conductive crystal to channel energy towards the base of the cup where the continuous blastball can be generated and directed outward.  The intensity of the generation can be modulated to provide differing levels of thrust.
The KPD2. It changes two things.
Thing #1: Instead of just aimlessly detonating PSF-Cs beneath the craft to indirectly propel the Avenger, the KPD2 works by containing the explosions into a nozzle, which focuses the explosions and turns it into directional thrust. Somewhat crude, but it at least works in the first place.
Thing #2: Instead of just rapidfire detonating PSF-Cs, the KPD2 is one continuous explosion. This is much more stable as it makes the KPD more like a rocket engine instead of literally blowing up the air under the thing in an attempt to get it to move. Probably more energy-efficient too, but that's just conjecture on my part.


Design: ASAF-F45 "Lightning" [4+1, 6-1, 5+1]

The next generation of hovercraft, the ASAF-F45 "Lightning" features the Kinetic Propulsion Drive Mk. 3.  The KPD Mk. 3 uses the entire underside of the craft as a propulsion surface rather than the bell-shaped nozzle of the KPD Mk. 2, which sacrifices efficiency for stability.  The wide, flat surface generates an "on-going explosion" across the entire expanse - the distribution of this thrust can be modulated by controls in the pilots cockpit.  By intensifying on one side or another the craft can roll and pitch, but must still use sweeping turns to yaw.  A significant amount of thrust is lost laterally as it "leaks" around the edges of the craft, but the Aether Reactor (which dominates the center of the craft) provides enough output that the craft actually sees a performance boost over the F44.  The Lightning is able to fly faster and higher than before, but acceleration is still slow - a symptom of the overall design.
The KPD3.
Basically, the KPD3 moves past the nozzle. Instead, it generates a constant "explosion" beneath all parts of the craft. This is different to the KPD1 because the explosion is actually distributed across the entire craft and isn't just a single point of detonation beneath the Lightning. Furthermore, the KPD3 allows for extensive control over the properties of this explosion in real time to allow for actually moving the craft and changing directions.

And importantly is the phrase "on-going explosion" used to describe the KPD, which I have bolded. The KPD4 does not change this fact, so yes, the KPD does in fact use explosions.

Also "A significant amount of thrust is lost laterally as it leaks around the edges of the craft, but the Aether Reactor provides enough input that the craft actually sees a performance boost over the F44".
Meaning that the KPD3 is more powerful than the KPD2. Significantly so.


Revision: KPD4 [3]

We modify the KPD to wrap around the sides of the Lightning to allow omni-directional thrust.  This disrupts the aerodynamic arrow-head design and gives it a more "bathtub" shape, but being able to directly accelerate from one side should allow the craft to get up to speed faster.
Finally, the KPD4.
The KPD4 is just a revision to the KPD3 to allow for omni-directional thrust on the Lightning. Doesn't change anything other than that. It's more of a tweak to the existing KPD3 but "KPD 3.2" doesn't sound quite as good as "KPD4".



So to sum it up:
Yes, the KPD3/4 is significantly more powerful.
Yes, the KPD4 is an explosion.

The HA2 design takes advantage of the KPD to introduce directional propellant. Because of the fact that we have more control over the exact specifics of the KPD's thrust and its direction, we can pack much more power into the thing without having to increase the size of the barrel past practical levels to not explode when the gun fires. That, and again, the KPD is significantly more powerful. The KPD1 fired at a rate of 4 PSF-Cs per second and the KPD3 is decidedly more powerful than that, which is already better than the HA1's power.



EDIT:
Also from Discord -
Quote from: evictedSaint (Discord)
evictedSaint - Today at 9:19 PM
OH - you mean the explosive shells that use blastballs.
I thought you meant
like
wizards casting blastballs against moskurg troops
yeah explosive shells will shred Moskurg armored ships

I've asked evicted again for clarification (I hope this isn't another "crystal shell" fiasco but I would assume that evicted would say so if it is) but so far this seems to further imply that Blastballs are ineffective against armor. But we'll still wait and see for a more definitive answer from evicted.

(evicted, it would be nice if you could just answer this on the thread - Are Blastballs [the powerful kind] useful at all against Moskurger armor? Even if we haven't seen this in a combat situation, we should know as we have to design the barrels of our guns [and kind of the KPD] to be safe for continuous Blastball usage.)
« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 01:47:58 am by Chiefwaffles »
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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

RAM

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4181 on: August 11, 2017, 04:51:46 am »

A certain amount of logic suggests that the craft's performance has improved, and thus the propulsion has become more powerful, but that could be attributed to other factors.
The quote that indicates a performance boost specifically attributes that boost to an increase in power from the reactor. It suggests that the propulsion can make use of more power, but that could be attributed to possessing a larger propulsion device, which would be consistent with the entire underside of the craft being propulsion. It is also only referencing increased power compared to F44, so it is entirely consistent with the quote that F44 was operating at low power and that the propulsion itself saw no performance increase.

There is also the matter of less energy being wasted on maintaining stability. Correcting the craft's orientation requires moving one part of it more than another, often in a direction that does not entirely contribute to flight progress for even just that component. Increasing stability will increase thrust efficiency and thus increase performance.

A larger propulsion device ought to provide more net thrust. It is actually concerning that the craft was capable of capsizing itself with a single K.P.D.1 and has only seen as much improvement as it has with its entire underside converted into propulsion. I suspect that it has an engine that has at least quadrupled in size, yet I am not certain that it has quadrupled in thrust. Flipping IS pretty easy, but it still requires a lot of force.

It further stand to reason that just because it is more powerful than 4 explosions per second, does not mean that it is more powerful than three explosions in the time required for a bullet to leave a cannon. Indeed, it seems to me that the cannon is, by comparison, EXTREMELY powerful. Though I do not off-hand know, nor care to research, how long it takes for a magic cannon that can put a, what, 8cm calibre iron bullet? out to, what, "B.L.O.S. +1"? 25 kilometres? to get its projectile out of its influence, but I suspect it to be very much less than a quarter-second. So it seems that it is very very very much easier to lift an aircraft that to push a bullet, in terms of force per time. It has never been a problem of raw power, but rather applying that power. K.P.D. is not especially powerful, it is just better at applying that power gently to a thing that is sitting in open air, the basic explosions that it was derived from are still better at pushing an expendable object that is trapped in an extremely snug tunnel.

The Key word in "sustained explosion" is "sustained". It is a "sustained" force that explodes. At it root, all that an explosion is, is something that expands. You most certainly get sub-sonic explosions, hence the term "high" explosives. A kettle converting water into steam is technically an explosion. What we know is that it has become sustained, constant, and that is the primary feature. And in terms of a constant use, such as flight, it is going to be much more powerful. Afterall, a cannon has all that time between shots when it does nothing at all. But the point is, ultimately, that we have put 4 actions into a safe, constant, directed force, what we did not do any significant work on was raw power. If a cannon had any problems at all in terms of directing its power then there would be some hope, but as it stands, K.P.D. is VERY explicitly a sustained force. Converting it to a burst would mean yet another fundamental modification to it, with no reason to believe that it would be any better than the existing explosions. I am not trying to state that it is as weak as a water-to-steam reaction, just that it is extremely specialised to push a very-nearly two-dimensional surface, while the explosions expand in a completely three-dimensional space. The amount of K.P.D. that you can fit in a cannon's chamber is miniscule compared to what can be fit under an aircraft, and the time that it has over-which to function is , again, miniscule compared to that of an aircraft. the three explosions are definitely more powerful. There is, as far as I can tell, no data at all to corroborate K.P.D. being more, or even AS powerful per unit of time over a given area.

 The fact is that if it were as powerful as our cannons then it would move like our bullets, the entire surface is covered in the stuff and, what's more, its density is lower than that of a bullet. Now it is likely that its mass compared to its under-side surface-area is greater, but then again, bullets are built heavy, thin, and flat-bottomed, while aircraft are built light, wide, and have a three-dimensional underside for more area to thrust against, which is important if you have thrusters over that entire area. If they were receiving the same power then I would accept a significant drop in speed, maybe even an order of magnitude, but we really aren't seeing that at all. Our bullets have VASTLY more force per unit of mass. The amount of total force over the time that the force is applied is not even a contest.

Quote
Thing #1: Instead of just aimlessly detonating PSF-Cs beneath the craft to indirectly propel the Avenger, the KPD2 works by containing the explosions into a nozzle, which focuses the explosions and turns it into directional thrust. Somewhat crude, but it at least works in the first place.
Correct, the focus of the project is in making a constant force that can be directed. Nothing about raw power, though a lot of additional power will be gained due to the efficiency of focusing that power. The whole point of a cannon is to focus power, and they are good at it. Our whole K.P.D. project has almost nothing with relevance to a cannon's operation, and has greatly  compromised its ability to function in a cannon due to its adherence to surfaces rather than open spaces.
Quote
Thing #2: Instead of just rapidfire detonating PSF-Cs, the KPD2 is one continuous explosion. This is much more stable as it makes the KPD more like a rocket engine instead of literally blowing up the air under the thing in an attempt to get it to move. Probably more energy-efficient too, but that's just
Correct, it is continuous, thus ill-suited to cannons. Correct, is is much more stable, thus its function when propelling unstable aircraft is greatly improved, resulting in "effective" performance improvements which would not apply to cannons which provide near-perfect stability by trapping the aircraft in a narrow tube. Correct, it is more like a rocket engine than it was when it was a cannon charge. Correct, it does not blow things up anymore. Likely correct, energy efficiency is good, but a cannon, by virtue of forcing all of its force to be contained within a barrel, has that same efficiency.

So there is no statement that corroborates that the spell itself has become any more powerful at all, just one statement that indicates that upgrading the power source made it more powerful, that is all on the power source.

It is an explosion, but it is a slow explosion, which is the wrong sort of explosion to use in a cannon. We have basically spend many many actions designing a jet-engine and the massive power0supplies necessary to get it to work. It is very good at pushing a plane, terrible at pushing a bullet. It is possible that all of our experience in combustion chambers and fuel-mixes and high-performance materials could get us a better gun, but putting a jet engine in a gun is not going to make a good gun. We could try for a better explosion spell, but using the K.P.D. as a cannon propellant ridicules all of the efforts spent in making it very very very explicitly NOT a cannon propellant..
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helmacon

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4182 on: August 11, 2017, 01:29:58 pm »

Quote
but putting a jet engine in a gun is not going to make a good gun.   

Coincidently, they do make some seriously badass suppressors. Seriously though, almost no sound,
almost no recoil,
and almost no drop in performance.
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evictedSaint

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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4183 on: August 11, 2017, 08:52:51 pm »

Combat for 946

Moskurg makes the first fumbling steps towards modernizing their antique ballista artillery to something that can compete with Arstotzka's magically powered cannons.  Named the "Thundergun" after the thunderous *crack*-ing noise it makes when fired, this new artillery piece is essentially an over-sized coilgun.  Firing round iron slugs out of a greased Adamantium barrel, it uses three dozen sequenced copper coils along the twelve foot muzzle for propulsion via a phenomenon known as the "Hayat Effect".  The cannon uses thirty-six Wands of Thunderbolt packed into a single cartridge and an open-latch loading breech, and the timing mechanism is controlled via vacuum tubes (also invented by Hayat).  The gun can reach out to BLOS+1, but is inaccurate (even with Lucky Strike) beyond Extreme Range - likely due to the unaerodynamic ammo and smooth-bore barrel.  Both their design phases were spent getting a working prototype and a functional unit they can put out on the field, and the revision was spent making sure it wouldn't break every time it fired.  It doesn't quit obsolete ballistas just yet, as it can't fire unique ammo, hit accurately, or be moved easily, but it has plenty of promise.

Arstotzka similarly spends this year trying to match their opponents area of expertise.  Their Avenger has been given plenty of care and attention this year, with a brand-new design known as the Lightning.  Fast, stable(-ish), and cheaper than its predecessor, it uses a brand-new magical energy generator known as the Aether Reactor.  Unlike the previous generation Reactor, it doesn't explode quite as violently, and manages to output more energy for the same volume via an ingenious radial-battery design.  The turret has been upgraded from 14 mm's to 20, giving it considerably more punch.  It's still single-fire and unpowered, but it does draw energy from the reactor so that a mage isn't required to operate it.  In fact, it can be operated entirely by non-mages!  The first design was spent making the generator, the second was spent making the Lightning, and the revision was spent upgrading the propulsion system to improve acceleration.  They once again elect to not spend their expense credit.



The border between the Taiga and the Jungle sees the most pitched fighting this year, and most of it occurs above the tree tops.

Moskurgs new cannons are...difficult to place.  More inaccurate than ballistas but with more range, it is used primarily on the ground to do the exact same thing Arstotzka has done to Moskurg for the past few decades; barrage enemy lines from an untouchable distance.  The round iron spheres don't really do much damage, though - they're too inaccurate to reliably hit enemies (even with Lucky Strike) and near-misses are non-fatal since the ammo doesn't explode.  The miserable range on teletalk wands means it can be difficult to get real-time feedback on barrage accuracy, which surprisingly makes Arstotzkas flare system more useful in this case.  Even worse, each cannon goes through a heavy 36-pack of Thunderbolt Wands in addition to every cannonball fired, and much in the same way Arstotzka suffered from supply issues when their HA1 went to the field Moskurg is unable to barrage non-stop.  Still, it's a longer stick than anything Arstotzka has, and even if they can't fire it all the time, or accurately, they can at least fire it without mages - something Arstotzka has been struggling with for decades and Moskurg figured out in a year.  Compared strictly to the HA1-b "Mundane", it's a little better since it can fire more often (provided it has available ammunition) and can hit further.

Arstotzkas new Lightning has made the Phoenix impossible to use at all.  The 20 mm gun can knock out engines pretty easily, and it has enough handling that it can get into position for the gunner to fire off multiple rounds.  There's even enough of them that they can do more than single strike missions, but Moskurgs Skyskiffs still outnumber them.  Sadly, the Lightning doesn't fulfill the "dogfighter" role as envisioned, as the turret doesn't track targets fast enough nor even fire more than once every six seconds.  Skyskiffs (or even lone "carpet" riders) can reliably knock out a Lightning if they can get close enough.  The Lightning has better range and better speed, but can't hit the small Skyskiffs.  The Skyskiffs have better killing capabilities, but their primary offensive ranged armament is the short-ranged Thunderbolt Wands and the pilots can't operate at the high speeds the device is capable of due to the open-cockpit design (and utter lack of seatbelts).  Moskurg can usually drive off Lightnings, since the Lightning can't operate in groups thanks to Moskurgs weather control and they're still outnumbered by the Skyskiff.  The Skyhawk must operate in tandem with numerous defensive fighters, but it can at least take a couple hits before going down and still operates in a slightly reduced capability.

Arstotzka still controls the ground thanks to their superior infantry.  Their Protector is still garbage and useless in the uneven and densely-forested terrain, so troops can't use it as cover during melee advances.  The Zephyr helps make up the difference in infantry combat, and as always is extra effective thanks to the heavily forested area with plenty of debris to throw around.  Without the ability to land troops behind enemy lines and with al-Mutriqa leading the charge against them, Arstotzka is once again forced to cede ground to the southern invaders.  Their Lightning gives them a foothold in the air, but until their ability to actually dogfight is addressed they'll continue to be beaten back at every turn.  Similarly, Moskurgs artillery will need to address supply issues and lack of ammo types before it can be a major player on the ground, and more importantly it'll need to be miniaturized and made more accurate before it can be used by the troops on the ground or by the skiffs in the air.

Moskurg regains a foothold in the Taiga.


Air power and artillery render infantry less useful in the plains. 

Moskurgs artillery can hit the furthest, dictating the distance between trench lines.  It's not accurate enough to hit anything in the trenches, but it can keep Arstotzka's artillery at bay which is a prize all on its own.  The Skyhawk still rules the roost when it comes to picking and chipping away at enemy lines, and Moskurg can more reliably bomb enemy emplacements from the air.  Arstotzka returns the favor as best they can, but the Lightning doesn't have bomb mountings and the more primitive Avenger must be used, when they can even reach enemy lines.  The Zephyr doesn't do much, nor does the Phoenix, but the HAC-1 likewise has little use here.  Moskurg ultimately has the advantage with their air and artillery advantage, and the fact that they control the coastlines means they push Arstotzka back another section and continue their creep north.

Moskurg gains a section of the Plains.


The Thundergun is hard to use in the mountains, much like the HA1 was.  Too large and heavy to move easily, it's regulated primarily to airships and the ballista is used on the ground.  Stone fortresses are little more than piles of gravel from the constant bombardment, and rain makes everyone miserable this high up.  Life is lightning blasts, bombing runs, artillery barrages, and scrambling from one wet rock to another.  The Lightning, frustratingly enough, can't aim downward, so its ground support role is non-existent.  Moskurg's Skyskiffs are better suited for supporting infantry advancements up rockey trails, though the fact that Arstotzka has had time to dig in does not bode well for the tired troopers.  HA1's hit pre-designated choke-points and slaughter dozens, only to be hit immediately after by Moskurg air forces.  Skyhawks move carefully between mountain peaks, only to be ambushed by Lightnings that are then immediately driven off by Moskurg Skyskiffs.  Melees on the ground usually go to Arstotzkans, who favor ambushes with their single-shot R1's.  Arstotzka knows these mountains far better than their southern neighbors, and it shows.  The fighting is brutal, grueling, and non-stop. 

Arstotzkas pushes don't go so well, either.  Without Close Air Support they can only fight (and lose) short battles with Moskurg air forces, and most of their Mages go back to standing in with troops to throw fireballs at Moskurgers when battles do happen.  When Skyskiffs appear over head, however, all they can do is hide and hope they run out of ammo soon.  Their crystal armor does a fair job at protecting them against most forms of injury, making it require multiple Thunderbolt strikes or firestorm grenades to knock them out of the fight.  Myark fights hard, and is really the only one who can knock enemy pilots out of the sky by hitting them with an R1 during a banking maneuver.  It's not much, but every little bit helps.

Ultimately, though the two sides are roughly even.  After a year of combat, however, [heads=Moskurg, tails=Arstotzka: tails] Arstotzka manages to bleed Moskurg dry enough that they push the invaders back down the slopes.  It was a close fight, and though they won Arstotzka only managed to do so by the skin of their teeth.

Arstotzka has regained the Mountains.  If they hold it for a year, they may exploit it for resources.


In the frozen northern seas, battles are fought and won in the air.

With ships regulated to mostly support, Arstotzka and Moskurg air forces slug it out in viscous dogfights.  If Arstotzka can take out airships, then Moskurg Skyskiffs have nowhere to land and will eventually go into the water (and quickly freeze to death).  If Moskurg can knock out enough Lightnings, then Arstotzka will have no way to defend themselves against the airships overhead.  Arstotzkas Lightnings are faster, so they can more reliably penetrate Moskurg perimeters.  Killing the airships takes time, however, so Moskurg can often catch up and start blasting the Lightnings out of the sky.  It's fairly even, but eventually [heads=Moskurg, tails=Arstotzka: heads] Moskurg shows their superiority on the high seas air and pushes Arstotzka back another section of coastline.  It's a close fight, and Moskurg airships are pretty ragged by the time the fighting is over.

Moskurg gains a section of shoreline in the Northern Seas


REVISION CREDIT!!!

As both sides advance their knowledge in the magical (or non-magical) arts, their ability to produce wondrous works that bend nature to their will has grown.  From now on, both sides will gain a permanent additional revision credit each year.  This credit can not be saved and is subject to the same bonuses and maluses as a normal revision.


ESPIONAGE CREDIT!!!

The years of war have begun taking its toll on Arstotzka.  Cracks in the design team have become very noticable, and after plenty of forewarning infighting has occurred.  A defector has come to the Moskurg design team, seething with anger.  The growing factions in Arstotzka threaten the Kingdoms very existence, and this individual sees Bjorn as too weak of a leader to continue on after the King has passed.  He comes to Moskurg asking only that once the war is over and Bjorn lies dead they will remember his Clan as one of those who sided with Moskurg, once it comes time to divide up the conquered kingdom.  Moskurg gains an Espionage Credit this year.


It is 947, the Design Phase.

Spoiler: State of Forenia, 947 (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Arstotzkan Elite Units (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Arstotzkan Spells (click to show/hide)



Behavior Rules.  Please Read.
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Re: Wands Race - [Arstotzka]
« Reply #4184 on: August 11, 2017, 09:51:42 pm »

Living cloud
We combine the wasp spell and the fog spell, along with all the field theory that we got from the recent propulsion development, and throw in a dash of mind magic from the taming spells and complex magical systems from our circuitry to produce a self0sustaining, aware, mobile, and loyal cloud. It resists antimagic by overcharging itself from reactors prior to engaging and retreats if it runs low. It fights by travelling in packs, obscuring the position of our forces until tit get close to enemy positions, then breaks up into individuals and sits on an enemy position, effectively blinding them. Obviously it is vulnerable to wind effects, but it can freely travel laterally to "sidestep" the wind and if it does get pushed away, it just waits until the mage powering the wind exhausts themselves and merrily returns.
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