Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[bloop_bleep]

1. The eastern regions' locally-elected authorities never chose to separate from Ukraine. They were, however, violently overthrown by armed Russian-integrationists after local administration buildings were stormed by those same integrationists, who, incidentally, had a conspicuous number of connections to Russian government. Whether these connections were Russian in nationality, ethnicity, identity, or other technicalities is irrelevant. There is a straight line between LPR & DPR and the Russian government.

2. The eastern regions did not ever want to join Russia. A majority of each region of the Ukrainian SSR voted for Ukrainian independence in 1991, which was recognized by all involved parties as well as internationally. All polls for years have shown that reversing this vote and joining Russia is widely unpopular.

3. In contrast to the armed separatists, Euromaidan activists did not participate in an armed rebellion, but in protest on the town square after Yanukovich made an unpopular move against the intentions of the elected Parliament, capping off dissatisfaction which had been brewing for years, where they were shot by government security forces. Yanukovich lost almost all his support, signed an agreement with the opposition which included the provision that he would remain President for the time being. He then fled anyway, and the Parliament removed him from his post in absentia in a legal impeachment motion.

Everything that happened to Yanukovych was legal, and he left his post on his own initiative (because he understood his political career in Ukraine was already over).

And Yanukovich's corruption was not secret, ambiguous, or moderate in scale. He had a massive mansion estimated to cost $1 billion & a huge estate, with his own galleon, an ostrich farm, a gold-plated chandelier, lakes of swans. People saw it all with their own eyes after Euromaidan, there are plenty of pictures. Meanwhile the state treasury was nearly empty when he left. Needless to say this is unlikely to be supported by his Presidential salary.

[MaxTheFox]

Oh my God, this troll bait is irresistible isn't it.

[EuchreJack]

Oh my God, this troll bait is irresistible isn't it.

...apparently. 

[hector13]

I dunno man, there’s some value to correcting nonsense for the non-trolls who are ignorant of the situation, but the trick is perhaps in doing it in a way that the trolls can’t troll more.

[EuchreJack]

I dunno man, there’s some value to correcting nonsense for the non-trolls who are ignorant of the situation, but the trick is perhaps in doing it in a way that the trolls can’t troll more.

But what about those poorly informed and who desire to argue the point they heard so well on Fox News...

[hector13]

I dunno man, there’s some value to correcting nonsense for the non-trolls who are ignorant of the situation, but the trick is perhaps in doing it in a way that the trolls can’t troll more.

But what about those poorly informed and who desire to argue the point they heard so well on Fox News...

They need to learn not to get their news from entertainment channels.

[Random_Dragon]

If they're willing to take the faux news channel as a legitimate source of information, they've probably already long since succumbed to clown world logic to be honest.

[King Zultan]

I thought the whole point of trolls was to fuck with them until they realize we're fucking with then and they leave.

[jipehog]

It’s post-truth denying reality levels of bullshit.

Maybe he is just young adult trying to make sense of things.

Also reality is subjective and can be shaped by thought.

Otherwise in geopolitics there are no good or bad, only good or bad for who. iirc North America and Europe account to 15% of the world population while Asia account to 60%, it is almost inevitably that Asia will eventually become the center of the world. Will you the minority be playing by their rules or trying to make your own reality?

[Strongpoint]

It’s post-truth denying reality levels of bullshit.

Maybe he is just young adult trying to make sense of things.

Also reality is subjective and can be shaped by thought.

Otherwise in geopolitics there are no good or bad, only good or bad for who. iirc North America and Europe account to 15% of the world population while Asia account to 60%, it is almost inevitably that Asia will eventually become the center of the world. Will you the minority be playing by their rules or trying to make your own reality?

Reality is the state of things as they actually exist. It is not subjective by the very definition of the word.

As for the "Asia has more people and eventually will be dominant on the planetary scale" Asia has had more people for centuries and for centuries it is not dominant. I see no reason to assume that 21th century will be different.

[jipehog]

Reality is observed, and will be interpreted differently by various people.

Perhaps, then lets play a what if scenario. If the are destined to become the dominant power, will you then play by their rules?

Here is an interesting map: https://i.insider.com/5293dba3eab8ea086e8fe1e0

[Strongpoint]

Reality is observed, and will be interpreted differently by various people.

Interpretation doesn't change what reality is. "Truth is relative" is the biggest lie.

Perhaps, then lets play a what if scenario. If the are destined to become the dominant power, will you then play by their rules

What do you mean by that? Will I change my belief and values? No matter how strong or weak Russia will be, I'll see it as a disgusting culture that must be opposed. No matter how strong or weak China will be I won't approve of their genocide of Uighurs, No matter how strong or weak Muslim world will be, I won't stop considering Islam utterly despicable. And if the USA will become a fascist state tomorrow, I'll also not start thinking that Fascism is the best way of living.

[MaxTheFox]

I am LGBT so it is not in my interests for the West to lose its dominance. I will continue rooting for NATO until the West's victory over the East.

[Quarque]

Otherwise in geopolitics there are no good or bad, only good or bad for who.

i.e. Might makes Right. Even from this cynical pov, who benefits from the war in Ukraine? I can think of one billionaire in a bunker who does, as he strengthens his hold on power. For ordinary Russians this shitshow is pure bad, they get to die in a pointless war.

[jipehog]

Unfortunately might does make a lot of right.. If Putin had succeeded with his initial plan, there would be a very different reality right now regardless of how much huffing and puffing we would be doing about his "cheating".

But, I was talking about the value of perspective e.g. to heavily dependent on energy import Europe rising energy prices is bad, to major energy exports like OPEC rising energy prices is good (works magic in relationships too); and I would argue that this war is great for China regardless of who wins.

Reality is observed, and will be interpreted differently by various people.

Interpretation doesn't change what reality is. "Truth is relative" is the biggest lie.

I wonder what MaxTheFox thinks about universal truths  (e.g. of the church)