Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Nobody1225]

Hows Prohibition and something similar against smoking sound?  That a conservative thing?

Well, they are already doing it for narcotics...

From what I've seen, prohibition against smoking tobacco is not really Conservative in the present day.  Liberal Boulder imposed a city-wide smoking ban everywhere except private homes.  More conservative areas don't generally do this.

To simply speak the party line, but not personally support it (my views would put me in the Moderate Crime Squad, but I've affiliated with wackos of both extremes in the past):

• Narcotics like pot are bad because they impair your judgment, cause brain damage, and are gateway drugs to the narcotics that can really screw you up and turn you into a violent ghetto sociopath baby-snatching axe-murderer.  And the gateway effect is not, sociology be damned, just because people who buy one illegal thing tend to get exposed to other illegal things to buy.  Also, certain studies to contrary be damned, it does exist.
• Smoking may not be healthy, but it doesn't harm anyone else (and second-hand smoke studies are all lies) and it doesn't warp your personality and it's not a gateway to anything else and it's not Nanny Government's business to tell you not to smoke.
• Alcohol is awesome.  Unless you're from the Evangelical part of the big tent.  Then it's not awesome, but it's still not Nanny Government's business to tell you not to drink: that's between you and the Lord.

Whereas the LCS counterpoints would more likely be:

• With regards to marijuana (harder narcotics require different and more difficult arguments), stoned people are less violent than drunk people might be.  Also, unlike alcohol, marijuana is not physiologically addictive.  Also, Conservatives hate it, so it's probably good.  And if there is a gateway effect, it's only because it's illegal: legalize it and no one goes looking for acid or heroin.
• Second-hand smoke is the devil, and while marijuana cigarettes have plenty of the same toxins in the same quantities as tobacco cigarettes, pot smokers don't usually smoke the equivalent of two or three packs a day the way hardcore nicotine freaks do, so tobacco has a greater total impact on health compared to cannabis.  Also, universal health care, so yes, it is the government's business if you screw up your body, because society is holding the bill.
• Alcohol is destructive and physiologically addictive.  Stoned people don't beat their spouses, but drunk people do.  Some major religions require the regular use of it in rituals, so banning it could be fun.  However, this is more borderline than the former two.

[Zangi]

*snip*

Ah you make a very good point.  I don't have much of anything to say against it.

[Necaladun]

We had to kill the hippies to save them from liberalism.

[Servant Corps]

I still back my little ...er...list of Conservative Agenda topics that involve sex change operations and having your abortion being authorized by Congress beforehand. I feel that, while not strictly fitting the stereotypes of regular, run of the middle, Purple Conservatism, it does fit the "radical", "insanity" part of the CCS fairly nicely, while being funny.

Put it this way. Yes, granting animals the right to vote is not something that Liberals support, especially not something Liberals would support as a way to stop animal testing. But it is something the LCS supports. Why? For the comedy.

[HAMMERMILL]

Yeah, Liberalism is all about freedom of mind and body untill the government has to pay for it. Then its their business to at the very least, make alcohol and tabbaco aburdly expensive with increased taxes.

[LordBucket]

From what I've seen, prohibition against smoking tobacco
is not really Conservative in the present day.

Realism is not a requirement. Comedy is.

I say...at C++ coffee and aspirin smugglers are shot on sight at the border.

[LordBucket]

The Conservative Agenda (Agendas marked with *s have been brought up before in this thread, everything else is new.)
Military Spending: America is 85% safe from terrorism.
Political Campagining: Political speech is unrestricted./Corporations have the right to free speech.
*Tax Laws: The United States reward innovation via tax breaks. 
Animal Testing: Scientific research is unhindered.
*Homosexual Rights: The United States funds sex change operations for homosexuals wishing to keep their lifepartner.
*Civil Rights: The United States funds race change operations as part of a drive to end racial discrimination forever.
*Women's Rights: The United States funds sex change operations for women wishing to keep their jobs.
*Abortion: All abortions must be approved by the President and a 2/3rd majority vote in Congress.
Pollution: Carbon taxes reduces pollution without harming industry.
Nuclear Power: The United States is free from dependence on foregin oil.
*Free Speech/"Political Correct Speech": Free speech is universially protected.
Death Penalty: The death penalty have deterred crime.
Drugs: The streets are safe from the horrors of illegal drugs.
Flag Burning: The flag is universially protected from potential vandals.

Remember this needs to be fun. Try something more like this:

Military Spending: The military industrial complex operates all industry without state interference.
Political Campaigning: Citizens are selected by lottery to be allowed to read pre-made campaigning support speeches.
Tax Laws: The central church collects an entirely optional but mandatory 50% tithe.
Human Testing: Subhuman mutants have been bio-engineered as a race of fallow test subjects.
Homosexual Rights: Male on male physical contact, such as hugs between family members, is punishable by death.
Civil Rights: Wasteful judges and juries have been abolished. Death squads perform the only punishment: execution.
Women's Place: Women may not attend school and are forbidden from leaving the home.
Baby murder: Accidental miscarriage is punishable by death.
Pollution: Harmless nuclear and radioactive byproducts are a valuable commodity ingredient for baby food.
Nukuler Power: All homes are powered by portable U-238 fission generators.
Free Speech: Electronic mind control devices are implanted in every baby at birth to insure no improper thoughts.
Death Penalty: Death squads patrol every street, performing public executions daily.
Drugs: Coffee and Aspirin smugglers are shot on sight at the border.
Flag Pride: Flying the flag is legally required on all cars, homes and business. Anyone failing to do so is executed.

[winner]

Perhaps, for a slightly more Christian feel:
Abortion: Legal protection is afforded to sperm. Contraception is considered murder.
Stem Cells: Stem cell research is classified as murder.

And to be more in line with the US of today:

Death Penalty: Murder and rape are punishable by death. Minors and the mentally retarded are not immune.

not enough victim blaming.
If someone has sex with an animal, you kill the animal.  Why not extend that to most crimes?
OOh I know  any sort of premarital sex is punishable by marriage.

[Leafsnail]

That's possibly going a bit too far.  Even Arch Conservatives shouldn't be like those on FSTDT.

[Nobody1225]

Realism is not a requirement. Comedy is.

I say...at C++ coffee and aspirin smugglers are shot on sight at the border.

I can't say I agree with that approach.  Only a very few of the L+ elements of the Liberal Agenda are actually absurd anymore--animals literally being equal to people and maybe the election of individual police officers--the humor in the game is not that their agenda itself is hilarious but the dark, twisted, and basically hypocritical measures (brainwashing people to ensure free speech, using submachine guns to bring about a gun-free society) they take to achieve it in a basically dysfunctional society.  I don't agree with some of the end goals of the LCS, but it does appear to be a basically coherent agenda that you can picture someone (like, the founder I'm running) choosing to uphold.

A conservative equivalent deserves the same treatment.  While the agenda should be taken in good humor at parts, it should look like a mostly-coherent agenda someone bright, charismatic, violent and ambitious (like your founder) could get behind, even if you personally disagree with it.  Then the sick humor is when they do terrible and hypocritical things to bring about their version of utopia.  If a protagonist CCS's end goal (not the antagonist CCS of the main game) was a society with a death penalty for every last thing, for instance, then wanton violence to bring it about wouldn't be hypocritical.

Or funny, really. It'd just be "Ha ha, KKKonservatives r stoopid & eeevil, see?"  We can get penny-ante humor like that in a low-end Flash game on a site alongside doll-maker games.  This is a more sophisticated work and it deserves better than that.

Another Possible Conservative Agenda:

Jonathon S. Fox's version of the Conservative Agenda is quite coherent, for instance; I can see a grassroots-level vigilante embracing it, rather than, say, one of the nastier James Bond villains.  Is it really that funny in itself?  Well, no.  Other than animals being literal people too, the LCS agenda isn't funny anymore either.  The dark irony kicks in, say, when the military-praising and national-security-minded Conservatives are forced to choose between slaughtering the soldiers and cops they claim to support, or giving up the guns they have a right to and turning themselves in to a justice system that will either let them off because it's too liberal (early in the game) or execute them for murder and treason because they've already successfully de-liberalized it.

[Necaladun]

A conservative equivalent deserves the same treatment.  While the agenda should be taken in good humor at parts, it should look like a mostly-coherent agenda someone bright, charismatic, violent and ambitious (like your founder) could get behind, even if you personally disagree with it.  Then the sick humor is when they do terrible and hypocritical things to bring about their version of utopia.  If a protagonist CCS's end goal (not the antagonist CCS of the main game) was a society with a death penalty for every last thing, for instance, then wanton violence to bring it about wouldn't be hypocritical.

It deserves what it gets, regardless or morality

More seriously, a lot of the absurdity I find from the LCS is the horrible immoral means to make a society that wouldn't be that bad to live in. A lot of the current laws in America are considered already to be C+ (If not just disguisting) by much of the western world, especially the death penalty.

A few more random C+ ideas, invisible sky fairy themed.

Military: The USAF is now an officially recognized crusading army, finally capable of winning wars against small third world countries.
Tax Laws: The central church collects an entirely optional but mandatory 50% tithe. (Unchanged cause I love it.)
Baby murder: "Accidental" miscarriage is punishable by death. (We all know you were thinking sinful thoughts at it.)
Free Speech: Is a universal right to all, but not to offend.
Death Penalty: Is applied to murder, rape, treason, arson, homosexuality, blasphemy, and the "Three strikes and you're out".
Flag Pride: Anyone with less than 3 flags on their person is to be charged with treason.
Political Campaigning: We report. God decides.

Civil Rights: All those who are under the yoke of slavery must have unqualified respect for their masters, so that the name of God and our teaching is not brought into disrepute. (Timothy 6:1)
Womens Rights: As in all the churches of God's holy people, women are to remain quiet in the assemblies, since they have no permission to speak: theirs is a subordinate part. (Corinthians 14:34)
Gay Rights: If a man has sex with a man in same way as with a woman, they have committed an abomination. They are certainly to be put to death. (Leviticus 20:13)

 

[winner]

freedom of religion?
"All the Muslims, Jews, Catholics and atheits are allowed to worship Jesus freely as much as they want to."

[Necaladun]

freedom of religion?
"All the Muslims, Jews, Catholics and atheits are allowed to worship Jesus freely as much as they want to."

I Lol'd.

[Nobody1225]

a society that wouldn't be that bad to live in

Like I said, the L+ agenda really isn't that absurd, especially the way it's phrased on the victory screen; it doesn't look like that bad a place.  I basically agree.

But suppose we insisted on phrasing the L+ agenda as follows?

• Abortion: Massive numbers of abortions are causing demographic disasters with missing generations and rapidly aging populations.
• Animal Research: Many life-saving drugs cannot be developed, because there are no legal means of testing.  Hopefully unlimited human embryonic stem cell research has all the answers to every remaining medical question.
• Law Enforcement: Police officers cannot act without approval from the majority of a community.  Police officers cannot protect unpopular minorities in their community without being removed from their posts.
• Privacy Laws: Attempting to learn the names or phone numbers of people to whom you wish to sell products is illegal.  Asking for names and ID to verify checks or credit cards is illegal.  All trade must return to a cash or barter basis.
• Death Penalty: Multiple murderers must be kept alive and healthy at any cost, including cosmetic surgeries necessary for maintenance of self-esteem, until death by old age.  In fact, life without parole is barbaric, too; forty years as an upper limit to incarceration.  No one who murdered at 18 might do it again at 58, right?  Also, the death penalty is completely barbaric, so embargoes against China, Japan, and other Eastern nations for practicing it.
• Nuclear Power: efficient, clean, and with modern developments, extremely safe, power sources are banned.  Increased coal and natural gas will be needed until we can finish paving Nevada with solar panels.
• Pollution: all factories using potentially noxious chemicals, or emitting any kind of fumes, close.  Slack is picked up instead in developing nations, where there are no incentives whatsoever to reduce pollution or care for customer safety and there is of course absolutely no chance that heavy metals might be introduced into infant formula as a cost-saving measure.
• Workers: all workers have a living wage with full benefits and humane working hours--assuming they can get one of the very few remaining jobs as private industry slashes workforces by 80% to afford the minimum government requirements for key employees.
• Homosexual rights: persons holding views about human sexuality not ordained by the LCS are sentenced to re-education and forbidden from speaking those views.
• Corporate Law: corporations cannot function in any way.  Any form of enterprise can be operated by the government, worker's collectives, or single-owner unlimited-liability only.
• Free Speech: Free speech is universally supported--unless it's from a source that disagrees with the LCS; then it can be gunned down in mid-broadcast, or labeled un-person by decree and deported from the country.
• Flag Burning: The right to burn a flag is universally protected--even if the flag is on someone's uniform and they're trying to wear it at the time.
• Gun Control: If a crazy man on meth breaks into a woman's apartment at midnight, all she can do is go for a useless can of pepper spray and pray hope that she's not fatally injured before the police arrive.
• Taxes: Doctors choose to stop working four months into the year because the salary they make for any additional hours worked would be confiscated.
• Women's Rights: Men cannot be hired to any position or promoted if there is a woman who also wants that position.
• Affirmative Action: Caucasians, regardless of background, cannot be hired to any position or promoted if there is a non-Caucasian, regardless of background, who also wants that position.
• Drugs: The right of persons to smoke copious amounts of marijuana before operating heavy machinery or motor vehicles shall not be infringed.
• Immigration: all borders are completely open and citizenship is automatic to anyone who wants it, unlike such backwards non-progressive countries as France, the Netherlands, or the United Kingdom.
• Campaign Finance: It is illegal for groups of persons exceeding one in number to pool money for any political cause.
• Military: The military is scaled back greatly.  Unemployment spikes dramatically.  Defense commitments to friendly nations are discarded.  America minds its own business and wishes its former friends the best of luck should their neighbors become hostile in the future.
• Interrogation: Persons suspected of plotting to bomb public places receive defense lawyers before polite interviews are held regarding placement of said bombs.  Such persons usually can therefore arrange guarantees of total legal immunity before detonation of said bombs and loss of human life.  Harsh tactics are reserved only for those who disagree with the LCS, who may be starved, dehydrated, beaten, deprived of sleep, and forced to consume narcotic substances.

Wouldn't it be stupid to phrase it that way?  Wouldn't that be a completely ridiculous agenda to fight and die for?  Would there be any point in playing a game where your goal was to bring about such a result?

For protagonists, the agenda needs to reflect their end goals they way they would see them, not the way their opponents would insist on framing them.  I've got no problem having the losing conditions--that is, the C+ variants of the laws when the LCS are the protagonists--being goofy, over-the-top, and incoherent, and really the base game does a pretty good job of that already.  I just think a role-reversal mod should be better thought-out than that.

Tax Laws: The central church collects an entirely optional but mandatory 50% tithe. (Unchanged cause I love it.)

And this is ludicrous.  Even if you insist on going by basic stereotypes (and hey, why not?  The game is full of it), the default religion for American Conservatives would be Protestant Christianity--Lutherans and Anglicans and Baptists and mega-churches and thousands of flavors of Evangelical and many other things.  That means no one central church.  Would a Conservative Utopia likely have everyone going to a church every Sunday?  Sure.  Would there be a unified church, or anything identifiable as a central church?  No.

Free Speech: Is a universal right to all, but not to offend.

Both Liberal and Conservative Americans seem to think that this is the other guy's view, and that they're the ones who embrace total freedom of speech.  Conservative pundits blast the notion of political correctness and the idea that they shouldn't say offensive things pretty much constantly--and then say those offensive things constantly as well.  So do Liberal pundits.  The only differences are who they claim they shouldn't have to worry about offending.

[Servant Corps]

Military: The military is scaled back greatly.  Unemployment spikes dramatically.

You know, all that money devoted to the military could be thrown at some other lame project, thereby boosting employment in that direction. You don't hear about Welfare Liberals supporting a small government.