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[IronyOwl]

Hey, you know, you might have a point. Penalty time for toughness!

As much as I try, I don't perfectly understand the rest. Damn tiny brain...

That's the opposite of what I meant. D:

I mean why say that dragons who get too strong become too bulky to move properly, as opposed to just saying that dragons who get too strong get really strong? I don't see any fluff reason to say that sort of thing happens, nor do I see any balance reason for it, especially as it doesn't apply for Agi and Int.

Yes, they have effects in-game. Minor-ish. It's meant for flavor rather than, I don't know, munchkin-ing?

As for balance... mainly I'd just even out all the +/- parts, so a Stiff spine gave +10 Toughness/-10 Agility or +15 Toughness/-15 Agility, for instance.

Oh, you mean that. The reason I don't even it is because you can just allocate points from the bonus to different spots if you don't like the negative effects. That's why I have it uneven, so if you pick a stiff spine, you can't just move 10 toughness to immediately offset your agility penalty.

Don't these two kind of contradict themselves? You want body parts to be more flavor than anything, but deliberately don't want to be able to compensate for/reverse them?

Most boys like softer women?

These are dragons, though. Especially as they'll be leaving offspring in their care, I'd figure male dragons would want large, well-armored females.

Yes, yessss... get into the overly-cramped bottle.

On that note, I should probably start thinking of things to help you kill the others with. Any pointers on what games you're already aware of, or what you'd be looking for?

Good god that took a while!

You type slow.

[Tarran]

Oh god Irony you have to argue with everything I stand for, including my soul. D:

Hey, you know, you might have a point. Penalty time for toughness!

As much as I try, I don't perfectly understand the rest. Damn tiny brain...

That's the opposite of what I meant. D:

So this isn't opposite day?

I mean why say that dragons who get too strong become too bulky to move properly, as opposed to just saying that dragons who get too strong get really strong? I don't see any fluff reason to say that sort of thing happens, nor do I see any balance reason for it, especially as it doesn't apply for Agi and Int.

Well, it's just how I see it in my mind: Overly large creatures, which don't have all their body expand correspondingly, will have problems.

And overly-high agility... I can't think of a penalty. Same with intelligence. Get on with it, slave!

As for balance... mainly I'd just even out all the +/- parts, so a Stiff spine gave +10 Toughness/-10 Agility or +15 Toughness/-15 Agility, for instance.

Oh, you mean that. The reason I don't even it is because you can just allocate points from the bonus to different spots if you don't like the negative effects. That's why I have it uneven, so if you pick a stiff spine, you can't just move 10 toughness to immediately offset your agility penalty.

Don't these two kind of contradict themselves? You want body parts to be more flavor than anything, but deliberately don't want to be able to compensate for/reverse them?

The inability to compensate is part of the flavor.

OR SOMETHING

YOU MADE SOMETHING I TRULY HAVE A HARD TIME ANSWERING

MY BRAIN IS UNABLE TO COPE.

Most boys like softer women?

These are dragons, though. Especially as they'll be leaving offspring in their care, I'd figure male dragons would want large, well-armored females.

Ummm... good point.

But, then again these are also dragons which fricking vary over thousands of books, movies, and other stuff.

Though well-armored could just mean toughness.

I MY BRAIN CANNOT FIGURE OUT A LOGICAL ANSWER.

Yes, yessss... get into the overly-cramped bottle.

On that note, I should probably start thinking of things to help you kill the others with. Any pointers on what games you're already aware of, or what you'd be looking for?

I don't need creatures now, but, here are fantasy games I'm aware of and have:
Nethack (including many variants).
Adom.
Angband (including many variants).
Dwarf Fortress.
Elona _{(oh god)}.
And... that's about it.

Good god that took a while!

You type slow.

Yeah right. I can type pretty fast as far as I know. It's just that I am working against about 3 other people. And I need to think. Which is... to be perfectly honest, kinda rare for me.

[Taricus]

Er, mind taking the conversation into a new thread?

[Elfeater]

Over intelligence will o er think things

[Tarran]

Er, mind taking the conversation into a new thread?

Nevar.

We will conversation until this thread implodes.

More seriously, you kinda have a point, we should do this in PMs, but then again I feel as though the conversation going to a close.

_Hopefully.

Over intelligence will o er think things

How would that work?

And, presumably, with a high intelligence you would be able to think up the answer for everything quicker, not slower.

[Aklyon]

Perhaps we can make a planning thread or such, and then copy the end result into the actual thread? (then again, thats technically the point of this thread...)

Intelligence negative: being too smart will make talking to less educated (peasants, etc) humans more difficult without sounding like you're insulting them. Kinda like trying to explain computers to anyone >.>

[SeriousConcentrate]

Over intelligence will o er think things

Just read any of my posts in Z&D to see what over-intelligence will do to a character; Malgun spends most of each turn in utter paranoia trying to figure out the repercussions of every single one of his actions. So basically what Elfeater said. As for Agi, maybe a hit to HP? If a Strong dragon loses speed because it's too bulky, then surely a fast dragon is very small and therefore less sturdy. Those are my thoughts, anyway.

[Tarran]

Perhaps we can make a planning thread or such, and then copy the end result into the actual thread? (then again, thats technically the point of this thread...)

You just ruined your own argument.

Intelligence negative: being too smart will make talking to less educated (peasants, etc) humans more difficult without sounding like you're insulting them.

That... that actually sounds about right for smart people, really. Maybe a small charisma penalty.

Just read any of my posts in Z&D to see what over-intelligence will do to a character; Malgun spends most of each turn in utter paranoia trying to figure out the repercussions of every single one of his actions.

Wouldn't a smart character just figure out the answer very quickly? They are smart, you know.

As for Agi, maybe a hit to HP? If a Strong dragon loses speed because it's too bulky, then surely a fast dragon is very small and therefore less sturdy. Those are my thoughts, anyway.

Hmm... maybe. Anyone objectifying to this?

[SeriousConcentrate]

A different explanation of what I mean, then; intelligent people generally spend a lot of time 'inside their own head,' so to speak. A highly Intelligent character might get a penalty to perception-type things since they're too busy thinking of this plan or that invention or whatever?

[Tarran]

That would require me to have to figure out what is and isn't perception-based and what requires more than basic looking at an object. So... no thanks.

Anyway, everyone in the game, if you want the RTD to start, vote to start the game or not. I'll need at least 3 votes. The reason I'm asking for votes is because I'm not sure if anyone else wants to add/fix/remove anything or not.

[Elfeater]

I vote yes

[Aklyon]

If we don't have any big changes left to make, I say Yes. kinks and smaller problems that appear during the game can be smoothed out then anyway, I think.

[IronyOwl]

Well, it's just how I see it in my mind: Overly large creatures, which don't have all their body expand correspondingly, will have problems.

Well, someone else might figure overly strong creatures must have low Int, or overly fast creatures can't be that hardy, or can't be that strong, or are zipping around too much to have much of a presence. There's multiple ways to envision just about anything.

Really, unless there's a specific reason to do otherwise, you should just handle this sort of thing by lack of focus elsewhere. A strong dragon who's also agile isn't that hard to imagine, but they'll be a glass cannon, or a warrior without much in the way of mental capacity, or they won't look like much. Thus, many very, very strong dragons will indeed be kind of clumsy, just because they haven't been able to focus on Agility all that much. Arbitrarily saying they take harsh penalties when they hit X in a stat isn't really productive for anything.

And overly-high agility... I can't think of a penalty. Same with intelligence. Get on with it, slave!

ಠ_ಠ

If you absolutely must, being that agile would pretty much necessitate being weaker and/or less tough, since otherwise you just couldn't move all that stuff around that well. Alternatively, the sort of burst speed agility tends to encompass could interfere with developing the more stamina-style strength the strength stat usually indicates.

For intelligence, yeah, can't talk without sounding like an asshole or getting mixed up halfway through your sentences. Low Cha is the result.

The inability to compensate is part of the flavor.

OR SOMETHING

YOU MADE SOMETHING I TRULY HAVE A HARD TIME ANSWERING

MY BRAIN IS UNABLE TO COPE.

You should probably just admit it's a bad idea and thus not do it. >_>

Ummm... good point.

But, then again these are also dragons which fricking vary over thousands of books, movies, and other stuff.

Though well-armored could just mean toughness.

I MY BRAIN CANNOT FIGURE OUT A LOGICAL ANSWER.

See above. >_>

I don't need creatures now, but, here are fantasy games I'm aware of and have:
Nethack (including many variants).
Adom.
Angband (including many variants).
Dwarf Fortress.
Elona _{(oh god)}.
And... that's about it.

If these mooks aren't well on their way to a shallow grave, you need more creatures.

As for Agi, maybe a hit to HP? If a Strong dragon loses speed because it's too bulky, then surely a fast dragon is very small and therefore less sturdy. Those are my thoughts, anyway.

Hmm... maybe. Anyone objectifying to this?

I do, but mostly on account of doing it at all.

Otherwise yes, let's start the game.

[Draignean]

Just read any of my posts in Z&D to see what over-intelligence will do to a character; Malgun spends most of each turn in utter paranoia trying to figure out the repercussions of every single one of his actions.

Wouldn't a smart character just figure out the answer very quickly? They are smart, you know.

I with serious on this one. An example based on different intelligence levels looking ahead in time.

Below average person (Male): Women have tits. I will get to see one someday. Life is good.

Average person: One day I will be able to make a difference in the world, I hope I can make a good change.

Above Average: The worlds needs change to survive, I have to start looking at what kind of change I want to have happen now if I want a chance of actually manifesting it later.

Smart: My abilities to ascertain the effects of my actions on the world are limited, and so even if my actions can change the status quo there is no certainty that the spirit in which I perpetrated will be upheld by the future. I must take great care to ensure that dream is not thwarted by the shortsightedness of my own ambition.

V.Smart: Yes changing the world is possible, yes one person can make a difference. You do however fail to realize that this world will die in time after we have drained it dry as a bone, even if that disaster is averted sun will go dark. Even supposing that interstellar was achieved before civilization collapsed and we were able to colonize planets then the universe itself will eventually cycle through a collapse into a series of super-massive black holes which themselves will eventually condense into a single black hole which will undergo a critical mass shift and explode into a big bang. Then of course the whole goddamn cycle repeats from scratch forever. So yeah, as long as you maintain the "long-view" of a goldfish then you can change stuff, you actually take a long view and your realize that you can't change shit. Now leave me alone, I need a drink. 

That should illustrate the turning point at which intelligence can become a hindrance.

[Dwarmin]

Hmm. I think I can add some more body traits though. Hope to be approved in some way.

Horns: Your horns, dude!

Single Horn: Instead of two, you have one-a rarity among Dragons, but it's not nearly as intimidating, since you look like a Unicorn. +X Charisma, +X Fame, -X Intimidation

Frontal Horns: Your horns bend forward, and partially block your face-they do nothing for your looks, but provide a valuable defensive measure. +X Toughness, -X Charisma

Scale Color: What are your scales like?

Purple: A rare color of dragon, thought by many to be some sort of mutant aberation. Lowers your desirabilty, but increases your fame. -X Charisma, +X Fame

Gold: An extremely rare color of Dragon-associated with treasure, obviously. +X Charisma, +X Fame

Chromatic: The rarest of all dragons, they are usually viewed as living Gods by both mortals and their kin. +X Charisma, +X Fame, -X Intimidation, -X Evil

Tail: What is your tail like?

Blade end: Your tail ends is a nasty switchblade which can bisect an armored man in half. +X agility due to accuracy, -X strength since it's light and somewhat hollow, +X Charisma due to rarity, +X damage from tail.

Breath: What do you breathe my good sir/ma'am? Please don't show me by breathing on me.

Energy: A rare sort of Draconic breath that can damage nearly any foe regardless of resistance, but does not do as much as damage as a dedicated element.

Sonic: Concentrated sound waves for blowing people away. Does more damage to smaller creatures and structures than larger ones.

Ice: For freezing people into decorative statues for your lair. Does more damage when the weather is cold.