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Author Topic: Pick and Axe : building and living in a home v.2  (Read 31932 times)

Rumrusher

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Pick and Axe : building and living in a home v.2
« on: April 07, 2011, 05:38:51 pm »

10/6/12 new version means an update to the guide.
Okay so about 6 months a has past and Dfhack updated alot... which kinda fiddle with dfusion.

-you can drop any item anywhere in the world now so using 'lair' on (non-player)sites you clean out to live in is unneeded, though you should still use 'lair' on player-forts for that they still scrambles items.


4/26/2012 new guide.
This is a guide on how to build a shelter and home for your adventurer while being able to expand on it and retire(thanks to langdon for finding the retired fortress trick).
Okay alot has change since last time, interactions, vampires, time to update Adventure homes.

first off dfusion kinda merge with dfhack so you just need one.
two due to runesmith being down you need dfusion to get access to your citizens.
three you don't need to kill someone to retire a fort.
 
1 you need the recent Dfhack for it's Dfmode and Dfusion and or Runesmith for flag changing though Dfusion has a chance of making a quick edit though Runesmith has easy access to Civ numbers.

2 you need to use Dfusion or 'lair' to remove the scatting tiles from the embark site which isn't needed but a life saver when you travel out of the home.

3 Use dfusion 'change adventurer' function in the 'tools' menu on a citizen. doing this will mark them as an adventurer(like a full adventurer and not some playable npc) and allows you to retire the fort.
4. make the adventure someone who is dead using DFusion adventure changer then hit the Esc.

5. boot up 'mode set' then hit change the mode to adventure '1',

6. save the game then reload it. If done correctly you are now dead. Now the menu will change and say proper adventure mode options you should be able to choose retire if you got no errors up to this part.

7. finish the game Retire.

8. now with the fort becoming a retirement center you just need to take the adventurer there once on the site use Runesmith, Dfusion to remove the Is resident tag on the adventurer and set it up so that they have the same civ number(checking the residents Civ number and copying that on to the adventurer) uhh i'll post a function to do this.

9. hit Esc use 'mode set' again only have it set as 0

10. save and check with out unpausing that the Adventurer is controllable now if you selected dwarf all you need to notice is it the adventurer has the normal dwarf mode face and not a @ if they have a @ then go repeat 8.(you can also check if you see any one in idle. if there isn't any one idling then you have no workers.)



Bonus stuff one could do using Dfmode.
Setting up a underground fort with no signs of entry from the surface.

The neat thing about how the game hides and unhides tiles on the memory and vision the adventurer when cross over to fort mode.You can 'reveal' the caverns or hell without digging from the surface on fort your playing on. To do this and start a hidden base you just need to swap over to fort mode Directly under the site and to do that you need to find a cave(hard) or find a old fort that breached the caverns swap over to adventure mode and walk into the caverns though the journey to your embark site can be a challenge on it's own and the farther the entrance to the caverns is the harder it is to pull this off.
Oh and due to the fort mode would only reveal the tiles the adventurer had scene there chances you could leave your self with a 3x3 tile of room to work with... luckily you could fix this by digging up or removing a wall tile which then reveals all the empty spaces.

Saving your pets.

Working on it. solution for this is to make every one a companion even the pets then take them with you or just make the pets a companion.

ARMIES

there two types the Entire fort and squads.

Entire fort simple but should be used for reckless attacks any one killed that was vital to the fort in a Entire fort attack it's on your head but these are more fun when you out number the bandits and human forts with your army.

Squads the smaller type which takes more Dfusion magic to work than the Entire fort means of attacking. this is due to having to swap to the leader or member of the military group you want to send out and make every one there a companion to that person then Travel to the destination doing this means no member needed for the fort dies but you are limited on man power, so do this for tactical strikes or if the threat is small.

the great thing about Armies is that if you throw in an adventurer to the group you can retire the men in a small hamlet and go back to your fort and train the rest for a second strike. You can also repeat the this process if you have another adventurer on the site or make new adventurers. 

you could have community turn based Strategy game with this.


7/19/2011
well I found another way to keep animals alive after retiring.
you just revive them once you go back.

8/12/2011
Beast Master

A couple of breakthroughs during the month I been messing around:
one is if you can recruit any sentient creature to military if you swap the fort race (or swap the race of the creature to the fort race ) then enlist them to the military, now while you can have minotaur archers you can't get minotaur generals until you happen to let two minotaur mate and give birth to one or set the migrant wave to minotaurs.

Second which can be helpful for armies is that you can just set the enlist creature to friendly and still have access to military control over that unit,(example)

oh capturing these beasts might be a challange given normal Dfusion only gives you bare bone tools and you have to sneak up to the creature and hope that they don't see and fully be aggro to you.
Kidnapping Randomroyal folks

Favorite past time in Adventure mode is kidnapping royals from their fortress and bringing them back to my fort.
Doing this is as easy and hard as finding a fortress that has people living inside.
Though the tricky and more satisfying is to find one that in an unable site like a mountainhome or a elven resort then bring them to your home.
how I do this is by using Dfusion's site changer to change the site to something Toady didn't removed from the game(there a event option that marks the place as a red X on your quest map and travel screen and every one would just be standing there so kinda like a old elven resort), which will spawn them on the map.
have a collection of Royal prisoners and have FUN!*

4/27/12 Though now I just have fun teaching random peasants secrets and magical powers and bringing them back to the fort.

*I am in no way accepting any chances of lost of life or lost of fortress by loyalty crusades if you go out and do these things.


Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: October 06, 2012, 05:02:19 am by Rumrusher »
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Kaelem Gaen

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Re: Pick and Axe : building and living in a home
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2011, 01:57:29 am »

Sounds awesome...   What is the crash rate like when doing this if there is one yet?

Langdon

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Re: Pick and Axe : building and living in a home
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2011, 02:15:04 am »

Sounds awesome...   What is the crash rate like when doing this if there is one yet?

I've used this (on .21, haven't used the new .25 dfmode yet) to set up an adventurer base. Basically, build a small house (with staff, doctor, smith and any other crafters if you like) and switch back and forth from fortress to adventure mode as needed.

It doesn't crash if you make sure that you switch away from your live adventurer to a dead  entity when switching from fortress->adventurer, and make sure it is an established fort that has been properly "retired" before switching from adventurer->fort.

Basically, make sure you return the world to the "Start Playing" state in the main menu before you start playing in the new mode.

The only crashes I've experienced were trying to switch from adventurer->fort mode in a hamlet or other non-player-fort site, and trying to switch from fort->adventurer and trying to play as a dwarf that was not previously an adventurer.

One gotcha I found was that player forts embarked on top of a pre-existing lair or cave will not work with this method - the game treats them as lairs/caves instead of proper dwarven settlements, and will not allow you to retire adventurers there properly. I assume this is also true for any preexisting features such as shrines (or if you are using Embark Anywhere, embarking on existing hamlets or towns).

Note that from the main menu, you can reclaim the site as normal, and any retired adventurers are still available for future play (even if the adventurer is currently a citizen of a fort, as long as you properly "retire" away from the fort first).
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Eric Blank

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Re: Pick and Axe : building and living in a home
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2011, 02:34:29 am »

Alright, this needs a bit of a translation...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

All a little unclear what is done where from what mode... Also, if your adventurer is a different race than that of the fort's creators will it affect your ability to control them in fort mode after changing their civ? Their ability to receive health care?

All in all this is a great thing you're doing, teaching us how to use these to provide adventurer hospital care/pure enjoyment from these utilities, I just don't understand any of it so far.


Some things I'm interested in that are related in some way, and explained here to some degree:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Damn you ninjas!
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Re: Pick and Axe : building and living in a home
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2011, 05:05:33 am »

Posting to watch... I need some more instructions too. I R not smert. :'(
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Rumrusher

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Re: Pick and Axe : building and living in a home
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2011, 12:29:57 pm »

oh there also the fact of using Nano fort with this will resize the area at first then shrink field down to the original size.
Alright, this needs a bit of a translation...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

All a little unclear what is done where from what mode... Also, if your adventurer is a different race than that of the fort's creators will it affect your ability to control them in fort mode after changing their civ? Their ability to receive health care?

All in all this is a great thing you're doing, teaching us how to use these to provide adventurer hospital care/pure enjoyment from these utilities, I just don't understand any of it so far.


Some things I'm interested in that are related in some way, and explained here to some degree:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Damn you Human Bogeymen!
hope this helps.

few things preventing me from being all swap happy is the pets animal issue so far the only way to keep them alive is to bring them with you on the journey and to make sure their the same civ as you before swapping to adventure mode(due to I guess the animal still mark as a tame wild in adventure mode and the game doesn't make them hold back leading to companions killing them or wide spread chaos of having caught tame creatures being next to migrant/merchant bought animals fighting each other and murdering dwarfs)."Recruit and Civ realign your pets before going out."

welp welcome to SimDorf
« Last Edit: April 08, 2011, 05:54:38 pm by Rumrusher »
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Re: Pick and Axe : building and living in a home
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2011, 12:48:06 pm »

Posting to watch.
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Langdon

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Re: Pick and Axe : building and living in a home
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2011, 09:34:07 pm »

My original "retire a fort" method was posted in the DFusion thread in the modding forum here: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=69682.msg2103316#msg2103316

to repeat:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Rumrusher has been playing with swapping modes the other way (adventure->fort). Following his instructions, I move an adventurer to a previous embark site, then using dfmode switch to fort mode (the "0 1" part of his instructions). It has to be a previous embark site, because otherwise something doesn't get initialized properly, and the fort will "wither away" after a set amount of time.

For more information, see the DFusion and DFHack threads in the Modding forums (specifically Darius, Rumrusher and Askot).

Alright, this needs a bit of a translation...

1. Install both DFhack and Runesmith. Clear enough. Wish runesmith/therapist were updated for .25 though... You should list a download for DFusion, it's not included in either of those and necessary for step 4, according to your directions

See my link above. Also, Therapist will auto-update when it detects .25, works on my game. Runesmith is sorta usable with .25, if you copy over the new memory xml from the latest version of DFHack.

2!?!  Create fort/home and adventurer previously? Which one/what should be loaded to begin with? When do we transition, if we do?

I believe he means "create a small fort in Fortress mode" then use my retire method above to create an adventurer in the same world.

2? or 3? Use either DFusion or DFlair to remove scatting tiles. What are scatting tiles? Scattering? of items?
DFLair is packaged with DFHack, but you should probably explain where to find/how to use DFusion a little, as it's apparently in neither the DFHack or Runesmith threads, at least on the front page. I do have it separately, so I suppose I'll read the readme again now to understand how it works, but a simple explanation as you did with DFmode would be the polite thing to do.

He refers to the "Prevent Items from Scattering" function of DFusion, which is needed if you want to use the site as an adventurer base (so items you place will not disappear/scatter like on abandon or in a bandit camp)

3. So at this point there should be a fort embarked upon and we should be building to our desire, correct?

By "finish up" I think he means make and store any items you want your adventurer to have (steel armor/weapons, crutches, etc).

Making a hospital may be needed for future adventurer use.

4. Again, need to read up, and again a short, sweet expansion of directions here would be nice. I probably need to update it or something.

Here he is referring to my method posted above - swap to adventure mode, then use DFusion to swap into another body -  a dead body such as a goblin or previously butchered animal.

Save adventure mode, and once you load the game, adventure mode will display "you are deceased" properly, and you'll go back to the Main menu in a proper "Start Playing" state.

6. So the adventurer and fort both need to have existed previously?

The fort needs to exist previously, but you can spawn as many new adventurers as you want (as long as you retire/abandon or whatever to get back to the "Start Playing" state). You can haul multiple adventurers to the fort and then reclaim (what I usually do) or use dfmode to go back to fort mode (as Rumrusher says).

7. Standard action after death.


Again, I believe he's talking about my "swap to a dead entity" trick in order to go safely from fort to adventure mode.


8. Alright, so the adventurer isn't actually dead? You use dfmode to take him to the site, then retire, go back into fort mode, and use DFusion to remove the 'Is Resident' tag, and change civ number to be identical to that of your dwarves.

At this point, you are at the Start Playing menu, and you make a new adventurer. You spawn, walk to the site.

You will now have a fort with your adventurer and lots of "Friendly" units around (the former residents of the fort). Remove the "Is Resident" flag from the "Friendly" citizens, and change the civ number of your adventurer to be the same civ number as theirs (remember, it's their fort, your adventurer is the visitor).


9. esc on the game or on DFusion?

Use dfmode to switch to fort mode, then ESC, save (to make sure it's properly switched over).

This should give you a working fort with all your former dwarves, plus your new adventurer.
You might have to use the "Friendship" function of DFMode if your adventurer isn't a dwarf - for those who haven't used it, "Friendship" allows non-dwarven members of a fort to do tasks (i.e. your tame tigermen can now be useful) although I haven't found a way to get them to do some tasks like join the military or take an administrative position.

10. save game, reload game, check that adventurer is controllable. At this point are we in adventure mode or fort mode again? So we should be able to control them as with our dwarves? The adventurer should of course have their race's default character and not the adventurer's standard @. Puncuation may be necessary. "if they have a @ then go repeat 8."+"doing it correctly this time".
At this point you are in dwarf mode. "controllable" means your adventurer is a bonafide member of the fort who can do tasks.

Also, if your adventurer is a different race than that of the fort's creators will it affect your ability to control them in fort mode after changing their civ? Their ability to receive health care?

See my note on "Friendship" above. Without friendship, non-dwarven citizens just hang around and chat with each other.

Some things I'm interested in that are related in some way, and explained here to some degree:
-I want to ensure that a fort exists as a mountainhome as it would had Toady implemented abandonment without becoming a ruin.

See my "retiring a fort" instructions for this.

-Rearming my companions, especially those damnable archers (useful for a few minutes, but sadly not disposable/replaceable enough) and guys that lose a hand and their shield/weapon.
-Giving crutches where needed so the cripples can keep up (the cripples are always the badass ones that will last longer than you!)

Use DFusion to temporarily take control of companions, and have them pick up and equip gear (under tools->Change Adventurer if you can't find it).

-Training up the companions since they're now so near impossible to find, and even harder to replace. (it's actually best to recruit bandits from near one civ and travel across the world to where they aren't criminals.)

With proper armor, they actually survive battles now, and train up quickly in combat.

-Upgrading my adventurer's and my companions' armor. I suppose modding the human/whatever else civs to be playable in fort mode is necessary here to produce said armor.

Do the fort->adventurer switch to get better armor. Personally I just buy loads of "large" armor pieces off human merchants and store them for later.

-Stockpiling all my goods from my adventurer.
The "Prevent items from scattering" function does this.

-Using the adventurer to transport goods between (living or otherwise) fortresses. A free mini-caravan so to speak.

You can "retire" multiple fortresses, and reclaim or switch adventurer->fort as needed.

-Maybe advice on producing dwarves suitable as companions. I can find dwarves from abandoned forts that are willing to tag along, but it isn't a guarantee they will.

I find my legendary fortress guards almost impossible to recruit, as their stats will usually be far higher than any adventurer wishing to recruit them. Training peasants up is more productive.

Sorry for the Wall 'o Text. If I get any spare time I'll try to write this all up on the wiki.

Heh and I duplicated some things rumrusher mentioned above, sorry dude, didn't click the spoiler tag. :-D

few things preventing me from being all swap happy is the pets animal issue so far the only way to keep them alive is to bring them with you on the journey and to make sure their the same civ as you before swapping to adventure mode

Have you tried making the animals merchants before switching to adventure? I find any merchant caravans on the map will retain the animals in adventure mode. although they might try to leave the map.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2011, 12:21:48 am by Langdon »
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Rumrusher

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Re: Pick and Axe : building and living in a home
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2011, 12:27:35 am »

adventure -> fort mode kinda like Reclaiming a fort using your adventurer. Though I may have to see if Dfusion friendship could be used because slapping the tame tag in the current state makes companions starve... something about lack of grass as a food source.

oh while lairs aren't great for retiring(?) There best for having a door/hatch cover free food and if lucky a night creature beast to tame if you succeed in trapping it. Though from experiences Do not leave a fort when hostiles are near by they will just rush in and kill some of the dwarves when you come back then go murder some more until you reach them. Did any one attempt to use burrows?
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Langdon

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Re: Pick and Axe : building and living in a home
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2011, 01:20:17 am »

Though from experiences Do not leave a fort when hostiles are near by they will just rush in and kill some of the dwarves when you come back then go murder some more until you reach them. Did any one attempt to use burrows?

They don't seem to respect burrows, I find my dwarves all over the map (although mostly wandering around outside the fort, in the center).

I had fort once where I used Runesmith to make caravan guards stay on the map each year (left Friendly status on by not changing them to my civ, just removing the merchant/diplomat tag) until I had an army of Friendly units hanging around at the caravan entry points. I then armed most of my civilians with leather armor+crossbows, then I swapped to adventurer mode.

That was my safest high-security retirement home ever. Also a good place to recruit armed companions (the caravan guards).

Some other things I've found in my current game:

- when switching to fort mode for a while so your adventurer can access medical services, you can just remove isresident on a few dwarves, not your entire fort (i.e. medical dwarf, maybe a farmer/brewer/cook) since you won't be doing any building. It should be pretty safe for your other dwarves if you have invasions off. Switch to fort mode, let the doctors go to work, and switch back to adventure mode.

I haven't tested this on non-dwarven adventurers, though. I'd expect you'll need DFusion Friendship to get your humans/elves healed up.

- if you do have invasions on, "friendly" units will tend to hang out all over your map, and it will be impossible to protect them from attack. It should be fine if you have an excess of civilians, or if you have a mostly-militarized populace - if you have lots of legendary soldiers hanging out at your fort, incoming gobbies don't stand a chance.

- also, be careful which companions you bring to your fortress. I once had an elven adventurer bring a couple of elf peasants in, but forgot that the elf civ was at war with the dwarven civ that owned that fort. Pretty soon I had a massacre on my hands (the dwarves were friendly to me, but my elf companions attacked the dwarves, my human companions attacked the elves, and all hell broke loose).

- for long-lived forts, aging might be a factor for human adventurers. I expect they'll just drop dead of old age once some other adventurer enters the area.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2011, 02:22:53 pm by Langdon »
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Rumrusher

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Re: Pick and Axe : building and living in a home
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2011, 06:09:07 pm »

Langdon I'm Naming My DF .21 first adventurer born after you for that beautiful post.

hmm from what you say different civ animals will stay on the fort but same civ ones will die.
oh I don't know if it's 21 or a repeated use of DFMODE but talking to someone for a quest caused the game to crash. Though I should just move out of the lair fort and use that as means of exploring hell.
wait I guess since any thing the adventurer has seen is revealed in fort mode I could just bring loads of stone and wood bunch of legendary archers and build a house in hell/caverns under another fort site that hasn't even crack it so we could build a hidden under ground base. Though I don't think they will stay in the underground base if you revisit it I guess from the fact we didn't figure out how to prevent creature scatter.
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Langdon

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Re: Pick and Axe : building and living in a home
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2011, 10:23:02 pm »

oh I don't know if it's 21 or a repeated use of DFMODE but talking to someone for a quest caused the game to crash.
I see the bug here was supposed to be fixed in .21, according to Mantis. If I can duplicate that reliably in a .25 save, I'll put it on the bug tracker.

Edit: on the other hand it might be this bug which still existed in .21, but was fixed in .22.

I'm actually going to start a .25 game tonight, as most of the tools I use have been updated properly. I just have to finish converting my personal mods.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2011, 10:25:38 pm by Langdon »
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Rumrusher

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Re: Pick and Axe : building and living in a home
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2011, 01:57:32 am »

so do you guys think the name weapon only happens when a certain kill number is reach in Fort mode and if so could someone take a head of a creature murder 40 people with it then smack a groundhog and get it named?
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Askot Bokbondeler

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Re: Pick and Axe : building and living in a home
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2011, 10:44:25 am »

so do you guys think the name weapon only happens when a certain kill number is reach in Fort mode and if so could someone take a head of a creature murder 40 people with it then smack a groundhog and get it named?

that sounds like a good !!SCIENCE!! project
also, following thread

Rumrusher

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Re: Pick and Axe : building and living in a home
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2011, 03:39:44 pm »

so do you guys think the name weapon only happens when a certain kill number is reach in Fort mode and if so could someone take a head of a creature murder 40 people with it then smack a groundhog and get it named?

that sounds like a good !!SCIENCE!! project
also, following thread
shoot I'm more than welcome to have people list new discoveries in the world of Dfmode here. more info the merrier so that we can compile it for Peterix's readme.
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