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[Duke 2.0]

Dodging an attack = 0 damage. Every time. Defense only helps if you're careless or something spawns right under you in the hellevator. That's what potions are for.

Maybe? There is only so far you can take "You are playing bad" in this game. Sometimes a ton of things spawn from all directions and whatever melee weapon you have can't knock them all away, or Chaos Elemental bastards.

Defense is a viable thing to look out for, although there may be a happy medium where any extra damage won't make enemies die any faster and defense would be handy to use. Just have to set a target enemy and a target number of hits to kill it, and decide how many damage boots are necessary for that.

Bit different if you are gearing up for bosses, and that depends a bit more on how prepared your arena is.

[Trapezohedron]

Defense is useless in hardmode. Bonuses > defense, but raise it as much as you can anyway for when you slip up and actually get hit.

Hahaha, total and absolute lie*. Even full (melee) adamantine + full-up warding accessories makes you nearly as tough as full molten does pre-wall. I haven't nabbed up the hallow set, yet, but that'd make it even better worse. Even limited dodging with minor potion use makes you basically unstoppable

For better raw numbers, melee hallow + 5 warding accs gives you 70 defense, which knocks 35 damage off of everything that attacks you. A ironskin potion knocks another 4 off, for 39. That just shy of halves the damage getting smacked in the face by a wyvern's head does, and reduces the damage from standing on the non-head parts right down to one. Clinger ranged damage? To one. Melee, halved. Laser snail lasers? To one. Corruptors? Damage ~halved. Unicorns, same. Chaos elemental! One damage! Destroyer! Everything but the head! Damage reduced to one! The head cut to less than half! *maddened, borderline invincible, cackling*

Don't want ironskin? Add four to some of those numbers. Still in melee addy? Add two. Anyway, you get the idea. Full defense spec is still pretty frakking incredible. You lose out on some damage (Fairly notable amount vs. a full damage spec, honestly), but... it's viable. To say the least.

*Well, okay, not a lie, but definitely not giving defense its fair shake. Let's run some numbers, shall we!? AHAHAHAHAHAHA

This, oh so very much. Defense is a total godsend, unlike what you think, as getting hallowed + full warding will make chaos elementals just as strong as zombies with medium mode equips.

And being able to tank skeletron prime is nice, as getting full defense makes his prime saw just a minor nuisance. Add to that a bunch of heart statues carefully rigged to wires, and you're invulnerable. And finally, using excalibur along with that defense boost will make enemies bow down to you.

To make it even better, use a warding warrior's emblem to any slot that isn't occupied with anything useful, and you're going to mow enemies down very efficiently.

[Darkmere]

I never said anyone was "playing bad", I said dodging negates all damage. The defense from armor and perhaps extra defense from trinkets should be survivable past cobalt unless you're trying to tank the hordes in caster gear. If you're surrounded by mobs, why not just grapple to the ceiling and thin them out by shooting a few? Defense isn't the end-all solution, there are alternatives that some may find more engaging. Different opinions are fun.

[SirAaronIII]

I can't find much adamantite. I've been climbing along the ceiling of hell with spelunker potions but all I see is mythril. Any other cheap tricks out there to spot and grab adamantite easily, or is that the only one?

[Duke 2.0]

I never said anyone was "playing bad", I said dodging negates all damage. The defense from armor and perhaps extra defense from trinkets should be survivable past cobalt unless you're trying to tank the hordes in caster gear. If you're surrounded by mobs, why not just grapple to the ceiling and thin them out by shooting a few? Defense isn't the end-all solution, there are alternatives that some may find more engaging. Different opinions are fun.

I'll admit to taking your message further than you intended it, but it's an oversimplification of many complex situations that make the idea of dodging handling everything weird to hear. I do agree that generally post-wall armor should handle your defense needs for spelunking and no matter how much armor you have, dodging would be preferred on bosses, but one can dump defense high enough to make common enemies not an issue.

Grappling to the ceiling is a bit problematic with peoples superhard skeleton archers and bats. It's also much harder to use melee on the ceiling on bats going at you. Potions also have a pretty hefty cooldown if you don't stop in a box after every tricky encounter. I don't care that I'm at half health, I'm gonna explore more. From there I gradually get worn down until I need to either warp out or misjudge something and die.

Defense isn't an end-all, but neither is dodging. I don't think anybody was making a case either way anyway.

[Trapezohedron]

Let's talk about something else.

Wires. As much as I love them, currently, they serve little purpose since the number of objects that can receive input from it is low. But I'm sure that's going to be expanded a bit after this update.

Still wish Redigit included a way to make NOT gates, like with redstone in minecraft. It would simplify stuff, and allow the items to receive input from only one source. I also wish they included jacketed wires, so they don't intersect while next to each other.

[Gunner-Chan]

I don't really intend to continue the defense discussion but... Those numbers seem odd to me since what exactly is going to be left by the time you have all hallowed armor? I just don't see the point in playing that character anymore when you get there but whatever.

Wires do seem like they're getting a bit of a shaft currently too. Right now they come pretty late and while you can do some cool stuff with them it's not really groundbreaking stuff. Though having a slime generator for flamethrower fuel I can see being useful. And heart statues in arenas are definitely useful when you can find and hack them up right.

[Darkmere]

I can't find much adamantite. I've been climbing along the ceiling of hell with spelunker potions but all I see is mythril. Any other cheap tricks out there to spot and grab adamantite easily, or is that the only one?

Well, you could always cut a swath down through the underground jungle. The same enemies spawn there as before, so it should be a joke now. Adamantine should be near the water/lava border and below.

@ Duke 2.0
I guess it's perspective. You melee, I shoot. There's a sitcom in there somewhere. Oh, yes.

@New Guy
Not sure if this helps, but still no NOT gate. I completely agree that mechanics is a let-down, as even pumping to move water is mostly useless due to liquid multiplying, especially water. I tried to clear a small lake into my obsidian generator reservoir, but after a certain point the whole system just failed and started filling without draining the lake. I don't want to run wiring for every pump project or dig a shaft to hell for every pond I need moved 30 tiles or so.

/rant

[Flying Dice]

I don't really intend to continue the defense discussion but... Those numbers seem odd to me since what exactly is going to be left by the time you have all hallowed armor? I just don't see the point in playing that character anymore when you get there but whatever.

Pretty much nothing, barring multiplayer. The same thing happened at the previous top tier, except that that actually took a while to fill out because a lot of it was random drops.

[Duke 2.0]

 Wires do exactly as they are advertised as. It would be nice if in future updates they get more complex, but for this update they open up wonderful opportunities. They also allow for sensible traps to be randomly generated in the world with the arrow and boulder traps. It's a shame the boulder traps often misfire on skeletons wandering around, but it's a cool concept and a nice underlying structure to have in place.

 And it's a mechanical update of adding features as opposed to making content from existing features, so it's gonna be bland on the first pass. I await seeing where it develops.

[Gunner-Chan]

I will say though. Explosive traps.

Best idea ever. Whoever didn't decide to blunt traps effectiveness by having one that by all means will likely instant kill you no matter what needs some kind of pat on the back. More games need to keep you on your toes like that.

[Darkmere]

I've never run into an explosive trap that I didn't make (and then, only made one). I've seen plenty of boulder traps... that skeletons already triggered. I think, total, I've been shot a few times and crushed by a boulder once. I must be the slowest spelunker ever.

[Gunner-Chan]

They're extremely rare. And seem to be only in the cavern layer.

And yeah skeletons and slimes tend to ruin lots of traps. I think if they made it so generated buttons could only be switched by players it would work out better.

[Trapezohedron]

I will say though. Explosive traps.

Best idea ever. Whoever didn't decide to blunt traps effectiveness by having one that by all means will likely instant kill you no matter what needs some kind of pat on the back. More games need to keep you on your toes like that.

The best part? They're rare, and most likely, you're not going to encounter one until you press it to die.

"Humdeedumdum dart trap, bah, let's press this. *boom*"

[Duke 2.0]

We have different switches available in the mechanic store, variants for different inputs would be appreciated.

And perhaps extreme versions of previous traps. A plate that turns on a repeater on a bunch of arrow traps. Five boulder traps connected to a player-only plate. Explosives holding up a mound of sand that crushes the player.

Although some method of evading these traps if you are prepared would be nice, aside from the magic mirror.