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Author Topic: Games you wish existed  (Read 926716 times)

Rakonas

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Re: Games you wish existed
« Reply #1095 on: June 23, 2012, 01:32:17 pm »

I think the point about density is that a less dense object (ie: a piece of flattened paper) will fall differently due to air/etc. than a more dense object of the same mass (ie: that same piece of paper crumpled into a ball.).
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10ebbor10

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Re: Games you wish existed
« Reply #1096 on: June 23, 2012, 01:44:21 pm »

see above


Example, the two balls experiment. One drops two balls, one made from solid Iron, one a latex membrane filled with gaseous helium. The balls are of equal size, but different mass. Therefore, their densities are also different. Now if you drop these balls, one will promptly fall to the ground while the other floats idly upwards.

It is thus shown that density has a quite obvious effect on the behavior of objects in a gaseous medium.


Sorry, just had to fix that for you.
You where saying that because the plane had a higher density, it would fall faster. This would not be true, because the plane would fall marginally faster, this would be caused by it's aerodynamic look and not, by it's density.

Also, that is scientifically proven experiment, first executed by Galileo. Matter and density have no influence on the gravitational forces on a falling object.

The fact that the Helium balloon floats isn't caused by gravity or falling or anything, but by Archimedes law. This says that an object submerged in anything will feel an upward force equal to the weight of the matter it is displacing. To return to our cubes, with their one dm³ displacement. Knowing that the density of air is 1.225 kg/m3 , or 0.001225 kg/ dm³; We can safely say this force is neglible for anything with a larger mass or size than a helium balloon. For example, a wo II airplane

The defense rests

Quod Erat Demonstratum, means "Is also in agreement"
Better translation is, which was to be proved.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
VERY OFF TOPIC
If you had cared to actually read through the entire thing, you'd have seen that I actually tackled that problem later on.
I'll rephrase it for you here:
"Friction would have an effect on the speed of the object. The change in speed would be determined by the following formula:
v²*m/2= E(In joules)" As you can clearly see, density is not part of this equatation, meaning that it doesn't effect anything.

Also, also calculating friction accurately requires supercomputers, so I'm not going to do that.


Also, more to the point, the reason why an objects density is that it isn't a factor in these calculations. Density is just mass/size.
Since size is fixed for the example, the WO II fighter yet, and matter has proven not to be important, we can safely say the effect of density is neglible, compared to say, the effect of the form of the object you're dropping.

((I'm spending way to much effort on this, me thinks. But it's for a good cause.))

I think the point about density is that a less dense object (ie: a piece of flattened paper) will fall differently due to air/etc. than a more dense object of the same mass (ie: that same piece of paper crumpled into a ball.).
Uhm actually, both papers have the same density. You just changed the form and therefore the friction they are recieving. Density isn't even a variable, it's derived from two other variables, Mass and size, both of which are semi- irrelevant, especially in the testing case.
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Starver

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Re: Games you wish existed
« Reply #1097 on: June 23, 2012, 03:23:29 pm »

Try flying an airplane on the moon.
Spoiler: Well, in space... (click to show/hide)

Right, in case I've not been ninjaed on this...  X-Plane was a particularly interesting flight-sim when I got it, a few years ago, and it must be several versions on by now (must check).  The Mars-spec planes (huge-winged rocket-planes, without the 'traditional' chute-retarding, given they were to operate in a thin atmosphere) were a joy to (try to!) fly, and even though you then had to use deliberately physics-broken (insofar as fuel/reaction-mass weight compared with the power it provided) engines to get the surface-to-space flight models working, this was a deliberate 'cheat' (as was the ability to refill fuel-tanks mid-flight, and repair damage to superstructure, etc, through the admin console), and everything else was pretty good.  It wasn't designed for bombing runs, but the vehicle models could be written to drop/spawn bomb-like items.  Set up some target buildings in the world-model, and I'm sure you could get the effect of a bombing-run.

Right, I've really got to dig the older version of that software out again...  Might even be able to get it to run better, on the more modern machines I now have.
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Starver

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Re: Games you wish existed
« Reply #1098 on: June 23, 2012, 04:15:52 pm »

Quod Erat Demonstratum, means "Is also in agreement"
That's a fast and loose translation.

Often quoted as "Which was to be proved", although "...demonstrated" is more literal.

Also this indicates how it is more often used to conclude any explanation that sprang from an "I shall now show that X is true" sort of introduction, given "prove"!="tested" (unlike in "the exception which proves the rule").  e.g. your tutor saying "It has been shown that <blah de blah>", who then goes on for about twenty OHP sheets/powerpoint pages with the derivations.  And then when the "X = True" pops out of the algebraic muddle, right at the end, "QED"!


(BTW, in last post I meant Earth-surface to space planes.  Don't think I made that clear, with the talk of Mars, which was just another location you could play around with planes...  Well, those that you could even get to fly there!  i.e. the specialist Mars-planes.)


Anyway, I don't see an awful lot of emphasis in the derail, so far, to the fact that neither the pilot nor the airplane are travelling upon a traditional ballistic trajectory.  Admittedly, the pilot's trajectory is largely ballistic, modified only by the cross section he chooses to present (or ends up doing so, during whatever flailing around he might need to do to catch a... if I have this right... rocket launcher 'option' hovering in mid-air?).  The plane, however, is already designed with aerodynamics in mind (with a less air-bashing forward profile so than the pilot might ever be able to maintain) plus, has an air-screw in front, giving it further forward motion.  Almost certainly, a pilot (or a James Bond) trying to climb back into the aircraft after acquiring a shoulder-mounted 'surface'-to-<foo> weapon from the nearest passing cloud will (even with the mass of the new possession reducing the efficacy of any drag coefficient, and pointing both himself and his new toy into a more streamlined profile, as well) be unable to reacquire contact with his original steed-of-the-air...

Or... well, I suppose that with judicious use of flaps/air-brakes, and (available on certain planes) variable-pitch propellers tuned to just the right reverse pitch.  But then you do rather need to get it just right, and there's always a chance that your once-stable aeroplane will now veer off-trajectory, and even (if left long enough) stop pointing the direction it is going and end up in some sort of flat spin.  (The effects of the open canopy might have something to do with it.)


But if you can't guarantee maintaining an equal trajectory, how about deliberately not doing so?  Set the plane into a largely-skyward direction at full-throttle, which you release at the moment of leaving the craft, timing the exit so that you can accomplish whatever sky-bound re-equipping manoeuvre you have in mind.  The throttle will not instantaneously revert to neutral, so it shall continue to power your ex-mount for a little longer.  As you yourself achieve your peak in altitude (perhaps at the object of your desires' location) and fall to Earth (I suggest going into a head-first, feet up, head tilted 'down' towards your feet and the skies, so that you can visually acquire your craft) the plane has been slowing down and, thanks to a judicious neutral setting on the control column, itself peaked in altitude, some way above you.

Then like a fielder in cricket or whatever-you-call-them in rounders baseball, you judge the plane's trajectory, twist your way in the appropriate direction and apply just enough retardation to ensure you aren't getting towards the ground so much faster than the plane is getting towards you that all subsequent manoeuvres could only be subterranean, and yet not so much retardation that when you cannot once again attempt to partly-match the speed of the now largely-idling propeller-driven dive, in the final few seconds.

Of course, I must emphasise, avoiding that spinny thing on the front it going to be one of your priorities (as is colliding, uncontrollably with any significant surface).  I suggest that you should have already (ideally, before you even left the hanger!) attached something like a ring-bolt to a handily reachable position on the fuselage, and have (again, prior to take-off) ensured that you have a short coil of bungee on your person, one end attached securely to yourself, the other with a suitable bit of metalwork to mate with the ring-bolt.  This is because despite all the above precautions, I cannot see the plane not passing you at significantly greater velocity (for a number of reasons, not least the fact that you've been deliberately waiting for it to pass.

All the arrangements, and personal aerial manoeuvring, having been properly applied, it is now a matter of hooking your bungee onto the plane's hard-point, both you and the bungee chord surviving the resulting jolt, and then 'climbing' along the chord back to the airframe, and then (with pre-prepared handholds leading towards the cockpit, if not already within reach from the fastening point) clambering back into the cockpit, to resume control (you may or may not have time to stow the bungee chord, but you should certainly ensure that you can close your canopy enough to lock it, just in case) and pull the plane out of its dive prior to performing what might now be considered a CFIT incident.


Really, it's all too simple.  I'm not sure why they didn't do it all the time, in WW2...  Apart from not having rocket launchers randomly deposited in sufficiently altitudinous cloud-banks, of course, but I'm sure that they weren't too far off from trying out that idea, after learning of the Japanese use of Fu-Go devices...  Yet another sure-fire development forestalled by the early conclusion of WW2, no doubt...  I'm still upset about not having personal jet-packs...
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Graknorke

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Re: Games you wish existed
« Reply #1099 on: June 23, 2012, 04:25:10 pm »

I'm not sure if it's been pointed out, but the object with more mass WOULD hit the ground first. It would accelerate faster and have a higher velocity, but so little as to be pretty much impossible to notice without very precise timing, extreme mass differences or a very long fall (all of them for best results).
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Xeron

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Re: Games you wish existed
« Reply #1100 on: June 23, 2012, 05:01:35 pm »

A game in which you can be truly evil.Preferably something in Dungeon Keeper style with more actions to do and a randomly generated overworld
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Graknorke

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Re: Games you wish existed
« Reply #1101 on: June 23, 2012, 05:23:25 pm »

A game in which you can be truly evil.Preferably something in Dungeon Keeper style with more actions to do and a randomly generated overworld
Definitions of evil vary. For me, you could kill all the innocent babies you wanted, but if you broke a promise I would personally rebel against your evil rule.
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SalmonGod

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Re: Games you wish existed
« Reply #1102 on: June 23, 2012, 06:10:14 pm »

A game in which you can be truly evil.Preferably something in Dungeon Keeper style with more actions to do and a randomly generated overworld
Definitions of evil vary. For me, you could kill all the innocent babies you wanted, but if you broke a promise I would personally rebel against your evil rule.

In other words: Lawful Evil.
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Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

Askot Bokbondeler

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Re: Games you wish existed
« Reply #1103 on: June 23, 2012, 11:46:58 pm »

it's pisa not pizza. and the spanish inquiition has no jurisdiction in pisa, that's in italy. galileo faced the roman inquisition

ductape

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Re: Games you wish existed
« Reply #1104 on: June 23, 2012, 11:54:10 pm »

it's pisa not pizza. and the spanish inquiition has no jurisdiction in pisa, that's in italy. galileo faced the roman inquisition

I had a great pisa last night with BBQ chicken, bacon and smoked gouda of at the California Pisa Kitchen.

I dunno, since this thread is completely derailed, I thought it would be ok if I kung-fu flipped in here and dropped that on y'all.
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Devling

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Re: Games you wish existed
« Reply #1105 on: June 23, 2012, 11:56:16 pm »

A game in which you can be truly evil.Preferably something in Dungeon Keeper style with more actions to do and a randomly generated overworld
Definitions of evil vary. For me, you could kill all the innocent babies you wanted, but if you broke a promise I would personally rebel against your evil rule.

In other words: Lawful Evil.

Well a game with "true evil" or any other "true" moral system would have no meter or anything.
Characters would act on what they know of you.
This would mean that crime systems would have to be more advanced then,
"O shit I saw you steal something now everybody forever hates you and your soul"
to
"O shit I saw you steal something and I am totally cool with that. Don't cut me."
And people would have real human reaction to threat, violence, and amoral acts in general.

I mean, a really evil person would act nice and slowly build up a power base while systematically killing off their rivals before assuming total control over the people, and using various sneaky ways to rob, kill, and destroy.

So basically, just wait a year or twenty for DF to evolve to that stage.
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SalmonGod

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Re: Games you wish existed
« Reply #1106 on: June 24, 2012, 12:03:04 am »

Yeah, I don't really like alignment systems in general... but I couldn't resist that one.  Graknorke's quote was spot on lawful evil.

Like you said, most people don't have a strict moral code, even if they'll debate whether they believe an abstract concept within a contextual vacuum can be considered "right" or "wrong"... but in reality, their behavior is a combination of context and pragmatism.
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In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

Draco18s

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Re: Games you wish existed
« Reply #1107 on: June 24, 2012, 02:05:00 am »

I'm not sure if it's been pointed out, but the object with more mass WOULD hit the ground first. It would accelerate faster and have a higher velocity, but so little as to be pretty much impossible to notice without very precise timing, extreme mass differences or a very long fall (all of them for best results).

...Have you:
A) Taken physics in school and actually passed?
B) Read the last four pages of this thread?

Your entire post is fallacious.
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Graknorke

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Re: Games you wish existed
« Reply #1108 on: June 24, 2012, 02:20:31 am »

Wait what, allowing people to kill babies/actively killing babies is lawful. What. Is that even a thing that works like that?
But anyway, the main point is that evil is not absolute. Whatever god-people try to tell you. In fact, if somebody is trying to TELL you that something is good/evil, then you should probably be wary of them trying to manipulate you.
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lordcooper

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Re: Games you wish existed
« Reply #1109 on: June 24, 2012, 02:24:12 am »

A new AoE/EE game.
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