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[Glloyd]

The thing is that people want dragons to punch in the face.

The problem is that AAA doesn't realize that there are mesoamerican dragons.

Just look at any Aztec/Mayan god.

[Draco18s]

The thing is that people want dragons to punch in the face.

The problem is that AAA doesn't realize that there are mesoamerican dragons.

Just look at any Aztec/Mayan god.

Well, obviously.  What I mean is, none of the big companies want to make a game with feathered serpents because "the players want dragons."  They feel they can't take risks, so they don't, and the game ends up a flop.

[MrWiggles]

The thing is that people want dragons to punch in the face.

The problem is that AAA doesn't realize that there are mesoamerican dragons.

Just look at any Aztec/Mayan god.

Well, obviously.  What I mean is, none of the big companies want to make a game with feathered serpents because "the players want dragons."  They feel they can't take risks, so they don't, and the game ends up a flop.

When folks say Dragon, 9 out of ten times, they're talking about european dragons. You have to denote from an NA, and EU prospective, mesiamerican or Chinese dragons.

And the gaming industry does take risk. The issue isnt risk, the issue that Gamers bitch about wanting different things, then wont buy it.

Most new IP fail, and what sells the most are sequels from established franchises. Gamers as a consumer basis have no fuckin idea what they want.

[WillowLuman]

From a South American perspective, people still don't think of Quetzalcoatl when you say "dragon." Just say "Quetzalcoatl" and be done with it.

If you want to start a new IP without having a track record, best bet is with something indie.

[Draco18s]

The thing is that people want dragons to punch in the face.

The problem is that AAA doesn't realize that there are mesoamerican dragons.

Just look at any Aztec/Mayan god.

Well, obviously.  What I mean is, none of the big companies want to make a game with feathered serpents because "the players want dragons."  They feel they can't take risks, so they don't, and the game ends up a flop.

When folks say Dragon, 9 out of ten times, they're talking about european dragons. You have to denote from an NA, and EU prospective, mesiamerican or Chinese dragons.

And the gaming industry does take risk. The issue isnt risk, the issue that Gamers bitch about wanting different things, then wont buy it.

Most new IP fail, and what sells the most are sequels from established franchises. Gamers as a consumer basis have no fuckin idea what they want.

True, there are a lot of dragons.  My point is there are A LOT of kinds of dragons and we keep getting the same ones.

Also, the reason new IP fails is because it isn't carried through.  Corners get cut and mechanics changed to make it more like "what sells," so it end up being crap.  Anything that does come out and isn't crap tends to not be advertised very well/much and the publisher ends up shooting themselves in the foot.

Of course, the same is true for remakes.  They keep getting genericicized into bland mush.  But it sells because "gamers" liked the last one, or hope it is more like the first one, or...

But yes

[PanH]

True, there are a lot of dragons.  My point is there are A LOT of kinds of dragons and we keep getting the same ones.

Man, I've yet to meet any. Am afraid there's not much dragons around here. Lucky you.

[Draco18s]

True, there are a lot of dragons.  My point is there are A LOT of kinds of dragons and we keep getting the same ones.

Man, I've yet to meet any. Am afraid there's not much dragons around here. Lucky you.

Gotta know where to look.
I've even met a couple who are here from off-world,* with various meanings as to what that even means to them.

On the gaming front: western dragons are too stereotypical.  Not enough mold breaking in either the dragons' role or in what kind of dragon.  Find a book called Mistress of Dragons, read that series.  It breaks every single mold I know of in terms of dragon personality and machinations.

*Long story short: I'm pretty sure this one gal I know is not crazy.  She ran into someone else the same age, from another part of the world with the same story.  Not in the "I was abducted by aliens" kind of "me too" but more..."Wait, you were born in [tiny town] the same year I was, went to elementary school at [tiny school], and also went to [small church]?  How did we not run into each other before now?" kind of way.

[Glloyd]

Exactly my point. Personally, I'd rather fight a feathered serpent than generic European dragon #6.

[Sirus]

Exactly my point. Personally, I'd rather fight a feathered serpent than generic European dragon #6.

Kinda in agreement. Even an Asian dragon would be a nice change of pace.

[Niveras]

Most new IP fail, and what sells the most are sequels from established franchises. Gamers as a consumer basis have no fuckin idea what they want.

There is a fallacy in ascribing to every member of a group the disparate opinions of each member of that group, and this fallacy is most clearly obvious when you ask for feedback from 'gamers' (especially games with very high player feedback, like MMOs).

Gamers do know what they, individually, want. If 'gamers' continue to complain after a request was granted, it is not that the same people are moving goalposts (though it could be, depending on how realistic the request was and how faithfully it was met), but new people with new complaints.

You can see the same effect asking large groups about politics. The difference here is that poll results are often first separated into like-minded camps (e.g. left wing/right wing, to use the United States as an example), and then further those opinions are not lumped onto the group entire, but rather expressed as a percentage.

[Descan]

Yeah. For example, the most vocal gamers could be also a tiny minority. What they want is not what ALL gamers want, what the MAJORITY of gamers want is expressed in what they purchase.

So if you make what the vocal minority wants, they're happy, but you only sell like, ten copies. And if you make what sells, the vocal minority is pissed, but you sell ten million.

I'm not saying this is what it is, but it has some explaining power in that regard.

[Niveras]

More like, the vocal minority complains about something, so you take steps to address the issues they bring up and they quiet down. But in so doing, another bunch of people are irked by the changes you made, and so begin voicing their displeasure. Two completely separate groups of people, but both labeled as 'gamers' and 'the vocal minority,' causing all feedback to seem irrational.

[Scoops Novel]

Exactly my point. Personally, I'd rather fight a feathered serpent than generic European dragon #6.

Kinda in agreement. Even an Asian dragon would be a nice change of pace.

Even more irritating wehn they opt for dumb brute European dragons. I'd rather have someone play up the silver tongue for once.

[WillowLuman]

You talk about breaking the mold, but you want to conform Quetzalcoatl to the mold of a draconic monster to be fought? The mesoamerican god of civilization, the sun, and the wind?

[Graknorke]

You talk about breaking the mold, but you want to conform Quetzalcoatl to the mold of a draconic monster to be fought? The mesoamerican god of civilization, the sun, and the wind?

But playing villains and fighting gods who bring order is fun.