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[Neonivek]

Ok I see

So Stamina is your free energy and it is what you can easily and freely tap into or rather effortless energy, willpower is what you can will yourself to do past the pain and exhaustion this represents a second wind and the energy you can use with a strong concerted effort, and Exhaustion is basically wringing energy right out of your body and represents the sort of energy use that is actually outright harmful to oneself, using energy you simply do not have.

As for "Gambling Willpower". Honestly there are some things I'd picture Exhaustion being what is used for. Any sort of "All out action" or Spell that eats away at your own body would be what I'd see exhaustion doing.

So you could make them function as the three levels of effort: Free, Concerted, and All out... but that may be too complicated and I am over thinking it.

[Leatra]

I don't want to be the guy who shouts "BUT IT'S NOT REALISTIC!!!!!1!11" but I gotta side with realism with this realism vs. fun thing this time.

You don't just become a big angry fella by thinking "ASSKICKER MODE ACTIVATED" unless you seek out a wise old man who teaches you the secrets of angry-ass-kicking. Even the least clichéd action movies know this.

[Neonivek]

I don't want to be the guy who shouts "BUT IT'S NOT REALISTIC!!!!!1!11" but I gotta side with realism with this realism vs. fun thing this time.

You don't just become a big angry fella by thinking "ASSKICKER MODE ACTIVATED" unless you seek out a wise old man who teaches you the secrets of angry-ass-kicking. Even the least clichéd action movies know this.

I pictured that the ability to activate "Asskicker mode" would be a skill in it of itself.... Either supernatural or as a biological function.

Afterall who here can force their body to go into Adrenal mode and max out their muscles? Certainly some creatures could do it (many fictional creatures could go into blind rages) inately.

With burning Willpower not so much being "Asskicker mode" so much as "Actually trying mode".

[fred1248]

It's not even ass-kicker mode to be honest... It's more like, 'oh boy, this is going to be rough, better put errything I got into dis' mode.
Tapping into willpower instantly does sound unrealistic, I know, but I see it as something like getting tired more quickly and getting better results, which does happen in real life.

[Neonivek]

It's not even ass-kicker mode to be honest... It's more like, 'oh boy, this is going to be rough, better put errything I got into dis' mode.
Tapping into willpower instantly does sound unrealistic, I know, but I see it as something like getting tired more quickly and getting better results, which does happen in real life.

It would be the difference between running away (Stamina) from a battle and sprinting (Willpower)... With tapping into Exhaustion being the equivilant to a Adrenal fueled death sprint.

[fred1248]

...which can still happen in real life.

[EnigmaticHat]

The toggling willpower stuff all seems good.  One random idea for the will system:

Perhaps will could only influence combat actions, not movement actions, and any terrifying situation or especially effective insult/other blow to morale could damage will?  So the idea would be that if the player's character became terrified or mentally exhausted, they would be less effective at fighting but still roughly as effective at running away.  So a cowardly PC would encourage the player to run away more often, but never actually force them to.

[Rowanas]

I like the "will as morale" idea. That appeals to me vey much, and seems like it offers a simple way to implement some of the negatives fo morale loss without any extra effort. If your army starts is low on morale, they have no reserves, so just as the enemy get their sword arm all warmed up, your dudes are terrified and have no will to fall back on, putting them at a serious disadvantage.

I'm not entirely sure about toggling willpower though. At the least, it should only be toggle-able on, and basically it would skip through stamina, letting you get at the juicy willpower, with all the benefits and hindrances that brings. Once you've toggled willpower on, you can't turn it off again until you're all used up and the exhaustion timer resets. In addition to it being toggleable, I think it should still kick in after stamina is gone, for the morale easons stated above.

[Ultima Ratio Regum]

Purely because of the number of comments, I'm not going to reply individually, but thanks all for the comments, and here are my thoughts:

I agree that if you can toggle straight to willpower, you cannot toggle back to stamina - you have to stick with the willpower bar.

However, another idea I've had is that actually they display different things, as a few people have hinted at/suggested. The stamina bar is indeed for all stamina actions, and when it is used up, you then go into exhaustion. The willpower bar is separate and does display your morale, and is basically a "modifier" for the effectiveness of all your stamina actions. So the more fearsome your foes, the longer the battle goes on for, etc etc, the lower your willpower bar might become, but it can also go upwards, and is separate to the stamina/exhaustion bar.

So, I see three options, I think:

A) Stamina -> Wpr -> Exhaustion. First standard, second stronger, third weaker. Exhaustion cannot be 'avoided' once you dip into exhaustion.

B) Stamina -> Exhaustion/Wpr -> Exhaustion; you can choose to enter the Willpower stage whenever you want. If you don't, you default to A, if you do, you skip the rest of your stamina until you next recharge your exhaustion.

C) Stamina -> Exhaustion, and the Willpower bar is totally different.

Additionally, if A/B, currently you can stop any point in your stamina bar and recharge; that's fine. But I could make it that once you're into the willpower bar, you *must* finish the bar, i.e. it goes down no matter what, and plunges you into exhaustion no matter what. I think I'm leaning towards B) at the moment, but as I say, it's going to be a while until these really get used! But yeah, I think B sounds good, combined with "once in willpower stamina you cannot escape exhaustion". Equally, to stop people just automatically flicking into willpower for really brief battles, maybe make something like each time you enter willpower stamina, your exhaustion timer is increased by 1 turn? That's tiny (player's average speed is one move per ten turns) but something LIKE that might add up and be a good idea.

So, if we stick with B, how about: Stamina leads normally to willpower, which is then guaranteed to lead to exhaustion. You can choose to enter Willpower for a big boost, but once in willpower, you again cannot escape later exhaustion. Every time you enter your willpower bar, your exhaustion timer is very slightly increased. This gives you a lot of control over the timing/pacing of the battle, allows both endurance-focused and willpower-focused characters to quickly make use of their abilities, and disinclines you from abusing the willpower bar (maybe higher willpower actually reduces the exhaustion increase each time you use it?).

[Ultima Ratio Regum]

Double-post! Yes, I'm going for the option described at the end, i.e. the development of B. I think it works nicely in gameplay terms. Anyway, I've worked all day today and done more than I can count on trees, climbing, falling, jumping, efficient saving/map changes, stamina, willpower, exhaustion and more, and made a pleasing amount of progress chopping things off my notepad file of stuff to do for 0.2.0... but now it's 2am, so I need to sleep.

[Man of Paper]

Just one request: Don't work yourself to death. If you do and this remains unfinished I will figure out a way to hunt you down for building up my hopes for a brilliant game.

[WraithLord24]

Just one request: Don't work yourself to death. If you do and this remains unfinished I will figure out a way to hunt you down for building up my hopes for a brilliant game.

Lol I agree ill help you hunt him down.

[Leatra]

He doesn't look like he is stopping any time soon

[Man of Paper]

Oh, another brief series of questions!

How prominent will siege weaponry (ballistae, trebuchet, catapults, etc.) be in the game? Will we be able to use flaming ammunition? I think you've already answered yes and probably to these, but I don't totally recall.
More importantly, will limbs go flying and will they do damage to people they hit? I want to see a cadre of bandits flee in fear after the catapult I brought along for no reason scores a direct hit on their commander and his arm bitch slaps one of his fellow bandits from 30 feet away.
Will ladders and grappling hooks be implemented for scaling walls? Would a defender be able to dislodge them? And would someone playing an assassin be able to use said grappling hook to scale buildings and the like?
Grappling hooks made me think of alternative weapons such as bolas and the like. Are there any plans to include weaponry to trip up opponents/screw up their horses? How about nonlethal take-downs?
When battle lines crash, will there occasionally be pushing and shoving around prior to all out combat? For visual reference, when the Persians first engage the Spartans in 300.
Will your character gain titles and nicknames for his or her accolades/defining features? Like Leatra the One Eyed, or Mad King WraithLord?
Will character appearance change over time? Say, if your guy is always swinging that sword arm and charging through trees, will he become more muscular? If you got a king that does nothing but sit on his throne, will he eventually turn into fat lard man? (Fun fact, as a kid a few friends and I made a video by the title Fat Lard Man.) I highly doubt this one, as I figure it'd be nigh impossible to implement, at least without being too demanding, but I figured I'd ask anyway!

Is it apparent I spent a lot of time on public transportation today?

[coolio678]

Oh, another brief series of questions!

How prominent will siege weaponry (ballistae, trebuchet, catapults, etc.) be in the game? Will we be able to use flaming ammunition? I think you've already answered yes and probably to these, but I don't totally recall.
More importantly, will limbs go flying and will they do damage to people they hit? I want to see a cadre of bandits flee in fear after the catapult I brought along for no reason scores a direct hit on their commander and his arm bitch slaps one of his fellow bandits from 30 feet away.
Will ladders and grappling hooks be implemented for scaling walls? Would a defender be able to dislodge them? And would someone playing an assassin be able to use said grappling hook to scale buildings and the like?
Grappling hooks made me think of alternative weapons such as bolas and the like. Are there any plans to include weaponry to trip up opponents/screw up their horses? How about nonlethal take-downs?
When battle lines crash, will there occasionally be pushing and shoving around prior to all out combat? For visual reference, when the Persians first engage the Spartans in 300.
Will your character gain titles and nicknames for his or her accolades/defining features? Like Leatra the One Eyed, or Mad King WraithLord?
Will character appearance change over time? Say, if your guy is always swinging that sword arm and charging through trees, will he become more muscular? If you got a king that does nothing but sit on his throne, will he eventually turn into fat lard man? (Fun fact, as a kid a few friends and I made a video by the title Fat Lard Man.) I highly doubt this one, as I figure it'd be nigh impossible to implement, at least without being too demanding, but I figured I'd ask anyway!

Is it apparent I spent a lot of time on public transportation today?

I so want to sig that
edit: the deed is done

also, an extension to the grappling hooks, how about good, wholesome ladders? and by an extension of extensions, boiling tar/ a hearty push on the people climbing said ladder?