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Author Topic: CYOM 5: Choose-Your-Own-Materia - Day One - Equivalent Exchange  (Read 1847 times)

Imp

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Re: CYOM 5: Choose-Your-Own-Materia - Day One Begins!
« Reply #165 on: Today at 03:14:02 am »

That's fair, but he played the same way as scum in BYOM and BYOS2 and I still find his slop saga really fishy. I'll give your read some weight even if I don't understand how it works.

Toony is fine. I don't see anything very interesting in his interaction with Gail. His push on FoU feels proportionate and sincere where I would expect a scum!Toony to tunnel a town!FoU into a mislynch and hold back against a scum!FoU.

I bold what I squeak about.

He did not play the same I THINK in BYOS2.  Clearly.  I called him out and got him elim D1.

He was TOWN in BYO.... Monster?

My first game with him.  Very town.  Vital to our town win.

You thinking some other BYOM??  Far as I know, Verm's been maf 1x here.  Somewhere else or what?

Explain to me what you see here, EP ... OMG.  I don't mean ABOUT GAIL.  I mean about you, EP:

Who's missing, Gail? I have no idea about Gail.

My early game instincts say....

Good guy
Tric
Imp
Magma
Vermilion
Imp

No idea
Elephant
Sal
Gail

Further scrutiny (because bad?)
FoU
Zemaj

I'm not like 100% or anything but FoU and zemaj bother me the most reading this first day. I realize I probably naturally distrust these players (I feel like I was in a game where zemaj was scum and they fucked me over) so I'm not full confident. Also we know there's three mafia so there's another bad guy somewhere.

Elephant and Sal I don't know.

Elephant's made quite a few posts.  Do you read or notice anything there?  I'm interested that you don't know, are you seeing signs that cancel out, are Elephant's posts just 'not there' for you, or what?

I have no read of Elephant I'm not confident calling them town but don't know if they smell bad.
Elephant Parade and Imp seem like town.
I can probably agree with that.

Look at how fast and detaillessly Toony goes from saying 'no read on EP' to 'probably agree EP seems like town'.  No thought, no question of us.  No evidence Toony reads you, just floats.

I am so sorry I misremembered, somehow, that as a weird on Gail from Toons.  It's a weird on you from Toons.

Does it look weird to you too?  Are you okay with it?  You never seemed to respond to it, why's it below your notice?
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Gail_42

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Re: CYOM 5: Choose-Your-Own-Materia - Day One Begins!
« Reply #166 on: Today at 03:20:13 am »

Sorry, I got wildly distracted.

I want to note that I believe it's likely up to all 3 'Master' skills are likely out there and that the whole bit of only one at a time simply means they aren't duplicated, and if they resurface as materia again, it can only happen after the existing one has been used.  I'm willing to bet that the only way a person could have more than one of those materia is in the circumstance that they initially swapped their other materia for the materia they personally submitted...  and would have to be refused if those materia already existed in someone else's inventory.  Whoever submitted those materia is the only one (other than NQT I guess) that could clarify my idea.  I understand this theory may not mean much to some people, but I think it's worth keeping in mind.  We can all exchange our randomly given materia with one of the materia we originally suggested, and in doing so, are allowed outright to have duplicates if we so wish.  The master materia are the outliers.

I admit that at this moment, I do not have any of the materia I suggested.  I have not decided if exchanging is wise, especially with so little clear info as of yet.  It remains an option to keep in mind (obviously I say this for everyone else, as well, in hopes town will aim to survive).  Let's pick out those bad apples before they spoil the bunch and all, but hopefully not toss the good ones.  I like apples.  Sometimes.

Imp-  Zem certainly did seem extremely paranoid and all with that last game, first day.  I recognize it because I get the same way.  I get hurt and angry and run away crying because I feel hated.  Which, of course is annoying and becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.  I'm cheering for him to play town with more confidence.  Oh-  also, definitely on the materia thing.  I'm more confident we must have the same, as you seemed to easily understand what I meant.  You mentioned as well about equipping later...  honestly, I hadn't asked to equip anything because I wasn't yet sure about things like, say, if unequipping was allowed or limited, or if the materia was considered used once equipped or just...  what.  I'll have to reread the rules again.  It's the little things that I always seem to not 'get' easy.

Elephant- yeah, sorry.  I'd claim that I'm not confrontational, but I just spent over an hour cussing out an AI I literally created myself.  Maybe that's the truth-  I avoid poking people because I'm afraid of creating confrontation. I think being here, I'll be more comfortable testing the waters and poking people.  Imp seems to do it fabulously and it just *works*.

I'm glad Sal popped in, but he still seems consistent to the way he behaved before. I'm not making strong assumptions, though, knowing how he likes to pretend he's Leo DiCaprio in "Catch Me If You Can".

Verm- ah, sorry, the way Imp had previously commented about reading you, I interpreted it as if she saw you as this enigma she couldn't nail down.  It's entirely fair.  It's just basically the only time I had heard of you, so >>

Why does Toony think Magma is a cat.  Can I pet Magma?  Will I get burned?  Will my wit ever climb out of this gutter?



I just reread how Mafia can apparently trade with each other, theoretically without us knowing at all.  It certainly makes Magma's idea about swapping around materia sound far more 'town'.  Theoretically, we could track openly who trades what.  The people who had sudden changes in materia available despite there being nothing in thread?  It would become like catching tax fraud through auditing.

It's just...  that also sounds like a horribly tiring and boring time.  I failed accounting the first time I took it because I would up and quit halfway through the assignment.  It sure would be funny to hunt mafia through fantasy bookkeeping, though
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Imp

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Re: CYOM 5: Choose-Your-Own-Materia - Day One Begins!
« Reply #167 on: Today at 03:27:39 am »

I just reread how Mafia can apparently trade with each other, theoretically without us knowing at all.  It certainly makes Magma's idea about swapping around materia sound far more 'town'.  Theoretically, we could track openly who trades what.  The people who had sudden changes in materia available despite there being nothing in thread?  It would become like catching tax fraud through auditing.

Precious Gail!  Partner mine, by materia of meaning and potency.  Please consider reading the below.

[spoiler=Progression]
At the start of each day from D2 onwards, players will gain a new random materia.

At the start of each night, before any actions are sent or processed, players may place any loose materia in any empty slots they have. They may also optionally spend loose materia that they have to do the following Meta actions. Players can do any number of Meta actions that they can afford and may do the same Meta action multiple times if they have the materia to do so. Players may additionally equip any loose materia after using any Meta action (so you can buy a New Slot and fill it immediately after if you have the materia to do so).

Meta Actions

Respec: Spend one materia and remove all materia from all slots, so they may be re-assigned.

New slot: Gain a new slot. Spend materia equal to the new slot's number. (e.g. two materia for the second slot in a weapon). Bonus slots don't count towards the cost. (e.g. if a player had one slot in Armour, with the Nurture sphere giving them two bonus slots, it would still only cost two materia to gain another Armour slot, giving them four in total). Additional slots in weapons give combined slots ([]-[]), in which an attack triggers all combined materia's effects.

Refine: Spend one materia and gain one materia of your choice at the end of the night. Evil cannot be gained this way.

Duplicate: Spend two materia and choose another materia you currently have assigned or loose: instantly gain another copy of the chosen materia. Evil may not be Duplicated.

Because of this mech, I expect every living player to gain at least 1 materia per day, of any type possible for them to get (so, not evil except through the evil materia rules; not Master-type except through whatever the Master-rules are, which so far only Tric's discussed).

So, I don't think we have to track known trades.  Anyone can lose materia by choice, spent as a meta cost.  Anyone still alive gets at least 1 new materia each day.  So it's weird if someone doesn't have 'unexpected materia' they didn't have before, or no longer has materia we are sure they once had, at least I think that'd be odd.
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Imp

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Re: CYOM 5: Choose-Your-Own-Materia - Day One Begins!
« Reply #168 on: Today at 03:30:00 am »

However, I think it likely at least some of us will track what is trackable/claimed.

Sharing this with everyone may or may not be townie.

There was a recent game, NQT's BYOS2, where the maf team were disappointed that I was not tracking 'location data' and discussing it.  They had trouble tracking it and really wanted me to do and share the work, so they could use it to their ends.  I refused for a variety of reasons, I also was town, and the evil-doers actually decided to kill the mech-advantaged town who could easily track location info, so... that sucked.

But I didn't help them that way, neener.
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Imp

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Re: CYOM 5: Choose-Your-Own-Materia - Day One Begins!
« Reply #169 on: Today at 03:30:54 am »

NQT's BYOS2

... Ack.

Mater's BYOBoardGame.

What was I saying about me not tracking 'location data'?  Yeah, that.
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Elephant Parade

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Re: CYOM 5: Choose-Your-Own-Materia - Day One Begins!
« Reply #170 on: Today at 03:36:01 am »

That's fair, but he played the same way as scum in BYOM and BYOS2 and I still find his slop saga really fishy. I'll give your read some weight even if I don't understand how it works.

Toony is fine. I don't see anything very interesting in his interaction with Gail. His push on FoU feels proportionate and sincere where I would expect a scum!Toony to tunnel a town!FoU into a mislynch and hold back against a scum!FoU.

I bold what I squeak about.

He did not play the same I THINK in BYOS2.  Clearly.  I called him out and got him elim D1.

He was TOWN in BYO.... Monster?

My first game with him.  Very town.  Vital to our town win.

You thinking some other BYOM??  Far as I know, Verm's been maf 1x here.  Somewhere else or what?

Explain to me what you see here, EP ... OMG.  I don't mean ABOUT GAIL.  I mean about you, EP:

Who's missing, Gail? I have no idea about Gail.

My early game instincts say....

Good guy
Tric
Imp
Magma
Vermilion
Imp

No idea
Elephant
Sal
Gail

Further scrutiny (because bad?)
FoU
Zemaj

I'm not like 100% or anything but FoU and zemaj bother me the most reading this first day. I realize I probably naturally distrust these players (I feel like I was in a game where zemaj was scum and they fucked me over) so I'm not full confident. Also we know there's three mafia so there's another bad guy somewhere.

Elephant and Sal I don't know.

Elephant's made quite a few posts.  Do you read or notice anything there?  I'm interested that you don't know, are you seeing signs that cancel out, are Elephant's posts just 'not there' for you, or what?

I have no read of Elephant I'm not confident calling them town but don't know if they smell bad.
Elephant Parade and Imp seem like town.
I can probably agree with that.

Look at how fast and detaillessly Toony goes from saying 'no read on EP' to 'probably agree EP seems like town'.  No thought, no question of us.  No evidence Toony reads you, just floats.

I am so sorry I misremembered, somehow, that as a weird on Gail from Toons.  It's a weird on you from Toons.

Does it look weird to you too?  Are you okay with it?  You never seemed to respond to it, why's it below your notice?
I completely misremembered VS as being scum in BYOM. I'm not sure where my head was at there.

I remember VS doing the same vague-observation-floating-no-push thing, and to my recollection playing generally the same, in BYOS2. That's my meaning. I don't have whatever your VS-sense is. It's true that you correctly read him 3/3 times and I did 1/2 times; that's not enough to convince me that you'll always be right about him, or that you're right this time, but thinking about it like that rather than as you just having a townread has moved me closer to unvoting.

Re: Toony: I took the turnaround as him being on the fence about me and getting swayed by you and Magma's (his townreads') townreads. That seemed natural, and it still seems natural.
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Imp

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Re: CYOM 5: Choose-Your-Own-Materia - Day One Begins!
« Reply #171 on: Today at 03:41:12 am »

thinking about it like that rather than as you just having a townread has moved me closer to unvoting.

I think he's a bad elim, I don't mind him being pushed.  Especially where it may expand his thinking and play for the betterment of town's wincon (regardless of his alignment at the time; stronger town play is usually better for town, I think I can mark him either way, we'll see as we go).

I just really wanna see you explore widely, and not just chase... right now close to 1?  I get that Zem's unavailable, arguably Verm too.

That game where I pulled the reads and Verm quotes from, your 3 maf leans were all town, your top town was maf, and the other two maf were 'okay' in your early read.  That's okay.  I just really wanna see you hunt widely :D
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zemaj

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Re: CYOM 5: Choose-Your-Own-Materia - Day One Begins!
« Reply #172 on: Today at 04:50:46 am »

well, to answer the many queries, I will let you all know that I have been spending some time learning-by-playing a 'new' ttrpg (Pathfinder 2eR).  It has been fun, and I enjoyed it, particularly comparative to D&D 5e.  Reminds me of a mix of D&D 3.5e & Cyberpunk, with a splash of D&D 4e for extra niftiness.  Not much like Pathfinder 1e at all, which seems odd, but Paizo can change their publication as they like, I suppose. 

I am sure few enough of you know what I am talking about, and fewer still care, but it's where I have been & what I have been doing.

Going to read back through the whole thread, take a moment to articulate something I have already noticed, and come back with more pertinent thoughts.
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And I'm getting along real well with Zem in and out of game, so I just want him alive forever (In fact, I have no kill, so I don't get to say who dies, and I would have been SO HAPPY to tell the game of a maf inspect on him, though I would have considered chances of redirection in that case as well - least now I don't need to really try to read him for alignment, which is great.)

Magma Mater

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Re: CYOM 5: Choose-Your-Own-Materia - Day One Begins!
« Reply #173 on: Today at 04:55:57 am »

Too tired to post much now. And I still don't have PC access for some reason. Hopefully I'll have a bit more time tomorrow.

Off-the-cuff reads without reading too deeply...
Town:
Imp
Elephant Parade
Crystalizedmire
ToonyMan

Mafia:
VermilionSkies
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Imp

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Re: CYOM 5: Choose-Your-Own-Materia - Day One Begins!
« Reply #174 on: Today at 04:56:49 am »

well, to answer the many queries, I will let you all know that I have been spending some time learning-by-playing a 'new' ttrpg (Pathfinder 2eR).  It has been fun, and I enjoyed it, particularly comparative to D&D 5e.  Reminds me of a mix of D&D 3.5e & Cyberpunk, with a splash of D&D 4e for extra niftiness.  Not much like Pathfinder 1e at all, which seems odd, but Paizo can change their publication as they like, I suppose. 

I am sure few enough of you know what I am talking about, and fewer still care, but it's where I have been & what I have been doing.

Going to read back through the whole thread, take a moment to articulate something I have already noticed, and come back with more pertinent thoughts.

Welcome back from the grid, runner!  I bet your character's something like a spreadsheet that ends fights and takes names.

Take your time, but sure eager to hear what you comment on, as you do :)
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Imp

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Re: CYOM 5: Choose-Your-Own-Materia - Day One Begins!
« Reply #175 on: Today at 04:57:59 am »

And I still don't have PC access for some reason.

I really hope things get easy, even good, for you soon.  If you also end up the happy sometimes-rider of a Cyber Scooter, even better.
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Magma Mater

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Re: CYOM 5: Choose-Your-Own-Materia - Day One Begins!
« Reply #176 on: Today at 04:58:04 am »

well, to answer the many queries, I will let you all know that I have been spending some time learning-by-playing a 'new' ttrpg (Pathfinder 2eR).  It has been fun, and I enjoyed it, particularly comparative to D&D 5e.  Reminds me of a mix of D&D 3.5e & Cyberpunk, with a splash of D&D 4e for extra niftiness.  Not much like Pathfinder 1e at all, which seems odd, but Paizo can change their publication as they like, I suppose. 

I am sure few enough of you know what I am talking about, and fewer still care, but it's where I have been & what I have been doing.

Going to read back through the whole thread, take a moment to articulate something I have already noticed, and come back with more pertinent thoughts.

That's cool, I've been wanting to try pf2e for a while, but the complexity of the rules puts me off a bit. I've been doing Call of Cthulhu lately. Also bought The One Ring a while back but haven't gotten around to reading it yet, it seems pretty novel though so I'm looking forward to running it sometime.
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Magma Mater

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Re: CYOM 5: Choose-Your-Own-Materia - Day One Begins!
« Reply #177 on: Today at 04:59:54 am »

And I still don't have PC access for some reason.

I really hope things get easy, even good, for you soon.  If you also end up the happy sometimes-rider of a Cyber Scooter, even better.

Thanks Imp. Today went well because I got some safety-related renovations done that I've been putting off for too long. Just tired now though since it was mostly demolition.
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notquitethere

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Re: CYOM 5: Choose-Your-Own-Materia - Day One
« Reply #178 on: Today at 06:58:20 am »

After a weekend of ceremony and rites to usher in the convocation, the week begins and the alchemists start their bloody business in earnest. And there is little alchemists like more than to make an exchange.

Vote Tally

Crystalizedmire
Elephant Parade
FallacyofUrist
Gail 42
Imp
Magma Mater
Salvatore Monday
ToonyMan
TricMagic
Vermillion Skies [2] Magma, Elephant Parade
zemaj
No Elimination

Day ends Tuesday 11.59pm GMT or on hammer. Hammer is 6. Weekends count for zero time.

Spoiler: Matched Trade Offers (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Active Trade Offers (click to show/hide)

Please do continue to embolden trades, or even put them in purple so my tired eyes can more easily spot them.
« Last Edit: Today at 07:10:52 am by notquitethere »
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zemaj

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outstanding quotes I feel compelled to respond to.  Not organized, just in order of appearance.

<snip>
Tric:  Focused on 'Mastery'.  Doing some odd stuff with minds, probably in the name of mastery.  By the way, Tric.  I don't know the game info you're focused on, glanced at the link for the Command Mastery.  Still feel like I don't get much; presume I do not catch any game-specific reference.  You don't have to clue me in, just know I am legit clueless and likely to interpret based on frames I do have.  I note asked about

RNG favors me apparently.

My question is Meta: Who here submitted Steal, Clone, Commend, Propagate, Ban, Void-Gaze, and/or Sugar, and what do they do?

- 'Sugar', we do have candy materia.
- 'Propagate' we do have 'Thunderous Propagation'
- 'Commend' is weird - unless 'Silver Star' - which one can be awarded as a commendation?  Otherwise, relates MAYBE to 'Master Command', is off by 1 letter.  Commend means to praise or present as suitable.  If that side, 'Monstrous Alliance' (worthy of alliance?) with 'Master Summon' and 'Master Magic' also relating through worth; 'Beer' (buy them a beer?); 'Light' (In light of accomplishments); 'Robin' ('Batman and' involves much praise)
- 'Void-Gaze' is interesting.  Many possibles:  ''Ng ゥ$◣ 8qZ' (I feel like I gaze into a void when I look at this); 'Ghost' (probably has a void-gaze'); 'Immateria' (can't touch it, it is void?); 'Psychic Silence' (probably not, but it seems not totally unconnected as a concept)
- 'Ban' maybe 'Anathema' (I would ban someone who did an Anathemic thing, but it can literally be banning from a church
- 'Clone' maybe 'Multiply'
- 'Steal' maybe 'Strategic Accretion' (gradual growth through mergers and acquisitions, possibly); Ferret (Ferrets steal/stash stuff, major behavior)

... about that irl stress.  Back later, I'll send this now because why not.

I did prod Tric about this earlier
<snip>

How did you come up with that specific list?

<snip>

annoyingly, he has yet to deign to respond to that



<snip>
I'm not like 100% or anything but FoU and zemaj bother me the most reading this first day. I realize I probably naturally distrust these players (I feel like I was in a game where zemaj was scum and they fucked me over) so I'm not full confident. Also we know there's three mafia so there's another bad guy somewhere.

I realize that I may be biased here, but that hardly seems like a good one reason rationale, Toons...



I'm not convinced sharing materia picks is pro-town, but doing it off the bat makes me feel better about you.

???

so its scummy, but since it was first-post the scum-tell makes you lean more town?



<snip>
I don't remember zemaj being that new but I don't know how often they've played.
<snip>

I would not say I am new to forum mafia, as a concept and game, but I would say I am still quite new to B12 forum mafia community, despite having had my first game here ~2yrs ago.  This is my fourth, for reference.  But then, Imp has done a very nice little summery  for us.
@FoU:
I don't remember zemaj being that new but I don't know how often they've played.

I choose to history here, because I can and wanna.

Zemaj Games:

2025 Jack's Budget Armed Forces Mafia, was town, lived to end of game, town won, only 'normal' game played here.
2023 Tric's Bring 3: Chaos Incarnate, was some anti-town type, game never ended in a way I understand and it was played as chaos.
Being honest. Mafia self-destructs, and hackers shut down the CORE. Everyone is happy. And the Jester gets defused.

And yeah, zemaj. Crash and Burned.

2023 NQT's Auto-Mafia, with very unusual rules, Zem was maf and won with Jim but no day play happened after D1.


Zem's first post on B12 suggests some awareness of mafia from elsewhere:

so, there's mafia games here... scanned through a couple, seems like a group I could enjoy murdering/trying vainly to keep from murdering the wrong person.  As long as this group has no interest in going to 2-week day phases, in any case... *shudder*

there any kind of player list or anything, or just informal "get in where you fit in" kind of approach?

But I consider Zem 'new to here'.  That 2025 game is my only one with Zem so far, and the only 'normal' game Zem's ever played here.

Toony was in the automafia with Zem, was town, I think Toons townread Zem D1, Jim and Zem let Toony live to endgame.

Toony was also in the Bring 3: Chaos game.  However I can't parse the chaos.  I dunno what this Toony is.
I have no night action.

For you see.

I'm made of wood, how did that happen? Yohoho, took a bite of Tree-Tree.

(like, really... I'm impressed.  And a little creeped.  But mostly impressed.)



A bit leery of zemaj dipping after being lightly pushed but I could accept "it's the weekend" as an explanation.

was that a push?  I read it as a snark, and after D1 last game I didn't feel like rising to such this time.  I mean, if you would like a specific response to the linked post, I could say something like:
"So answering questions is good, but making a edit-post to elaborate on a point I had meant to make but missed somehow is bad.  Particularly when I could have just not, and then it would have been fine?  Making sure your thoughts are complete and thorough isn't townie?  Elaborate please, I'm kinda lost here..."

Would that be more on-brand?  Granted, last game it worked out pretty well, but I'll let someone else over-react to snide comments for the sake of getting a scum to over-play their hand this time.  This game has weird mechs I really want to play with.



<snip>
The ‘stealing trades’ thing was absolutely meaningless, I threw it out there to see how Magma would react to slop being thrown at them this game.
They seem more reactive than usual? I remember it taking a lot more to get a vote out of them than this.
<snip>

now that you mention it... he does seem marginally quicker to 'fire back'.  That said, I don't believe that is what you were doing, at all.

Condolences for the ear infection, though.  That's a rough one.



Vermillion, I've literally done nothing so far. Unvote

not true, you have ignored both my direct question to everyone, and my pointed prod at your 'list of seven'.  I mean its out there now, do something with it.



<snip>
@Imp:
I am probably okay if Zemaj were to drop dead right now.
<snip>

rude.  I assume you mean in-game, but still...



so thats done then... sorry for snips, and lack thereof, but that is already a certified wall 'o text & some bits couldn't be trimmed for the sake of addressing multiple points on single post.

pt2 incoming shortly, or rather later if I pass out before I finish (it's so late it's early...)
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And I'm getting along real well with Zem in and out of game, so I just want him alive forever (In fact, I have no kill, so I don't get to say who dies, and I would have been SO HAPPY to tell the game of a maf inspect on him, though I would have considered chances of redirection in that case as well - least now I don't need to really try to read him for alignment, which is great.)
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