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[NullForceOmega]

Yay, discussion!

Okay, we're probably having a small communication issue here, I am upholding the Necron, 'nids and Orks as examples of good reasons the the 'only war' mentality exists, not as examples of good writing (the 'nids are fine, the Orks are okay, but the Necron are just silly.)  I am using them as a counterpoint to my main argument, which is that if anyone in the 40kverse had any intelligence at all, most of the conflicts wouldn't have happened in the first place.

Horus heresy?  Thanks emps, great job fucking off to Earth right in the middle of the campaign and leaving your rather stupid sons unattended.

Everything else in the setting is pretty much the same level of "We have this nearly under control, now let's completely ignore it and do something else!"  And that is invariably bad storytelling, the motivations make no sense, the reactions to situations are universally the worst possible.  Bluntly the problem is that the universe as a whole is totally improbable, and thus breaks suspension of disbelief.

Since Orks live for combat they only feel really alive when asserting themselves, killing an opponent is very much 'asserting' their individual dominance, and so is a clear expression of their culture.

[nenjin]

You guys need to kiss and make up.

[KingofstarrySkies]

Tau are fairly well-written in my honest opinion. The Ethereals mean the best for their kind, and also emit delicious subtle mind-controlling musk, and they all would really prefer to not kill you.
Unless you're an ork or a Tyranid, in which case fuck that shit.

[Teneb]

Tau are fairly well-written in my honest opinion. The Ethereals mean the best for their kind, and also emit delicious subtle mind-controlling musk, and they all would really prefer to not kill you.
Unless you're an ork or a Tyranid, in which case fuck that shit.

And, ironically, they probably have the best method of fighting Chaos: not believing in its existence.

[NullForceOmega]

Supposedly they did try to communicate with the Orks, but Orks just want to kill, so negotiations are impossible.  The Tau themselves are fairly well written (until the recent addition of 'spayed and neutered humans' anyway.)  But the interaction with them (especially on the Empire's end) is just bad.  The Tau would like to negotiate with someone regarding their planned expansion: Empire says, "burn xenos scum!"  Yes, I know that the Empire is completely composed of mindless fanatics, but that is also bad writing.

[KingofstarrySkies]

They've been taught to do nothing but that, is the thing. It's not outlandish for them to believe what they're told from birth by the Inquis.

AND WHAT IS THIS 'Empire' YOU SPEAK OF

[NullForceOmega]

The Imperium of failure and rot.

And when you have tens of trillions of people, attempting to impress unified thought on them just causes wholesale uprising.  If the writing were even remotely acceptable then humanity would be substantially more fucked than it is depicted.

(Since the 'Imperium of Mankind' is ruled by an 'Emperor' and not an 'Imperator' then it's name should be 'Empire'.)

[Kot]

Horus heresy?  Thanks emps, great job fucking off to Earth right in the middle of the campaign and leaving your rather stupid sons unattended.

Emperor fucked off to Earth to work on actually getting to webway, left the most competent guy around (Horus) in charge, and his stupid sons wouldn't actually be that stupid if Horus didin't end up injurned and due to certain shenanigans (being injurned by some magical sword with Erebus and Lorgar around doesn't end well) he ended up being served to Chaos Gods on plate, and they convinced him that Emperor is the bad guy. In turn, he then went to Warp, and only after spending a long time (which, due to nature of Warp, is relative) there, he changed into the murderous bastard we know him for.

Everything else in the setting is pretty much the same level of "We have this nearly under control, now let's completely ignore it and do something else!"

We have this nearly under control but we must do something else or we will fucking fail. The Big E wanted a way to travel without the risk of Warp tainting people, which is the reason the Erebus turned to Chaos, which in turn is one of the main reason swhy Lorgar turned to Chaos, which is the reason why Horus turned to Chaos... and it's basically snowball from there.

that is invariably bad storytelling, the motivations make no sense, the reactions to situations are universally the worst possible.

The reactions are worst in hindsight.

Bluntly the problem is that the universe as a whole is totally improbable, and thus breaks suspension of disbelief.

Yeaaaah, it's not like people fuck up in real life.

Since Orks live for combat they only feel really alive when asserting themselves, killing an opponent is very much 'asserting' their individual dominance, and so is a clear expression of their culture.

I like to think Orks kill people as a compliment. They don't see death as we see it and their highest honor to give is to kill a motherfucker.

They don't.

Tau are fairly well-written in my honest opinion. The Ethereals mean the best for their kind, and also emit delicious subtle mind-controlling musk, and they all would really prefer to not kill you.

Tau Ethereals... well, you don't exactly know what they actually mean, as they appared out of nowhere and basically set up an dictatorship. And the problem with Tau that people have is not that they aren't as murderboney as Imperium, since they are, but that they try to cover it up and worst of all, people belive it.

Supposedly they did try to communicate with the Orks, but Orks just want to kill, so negotiations are impossible.

Bull.
Shit.
It's perfectly possible but Tau are just ridiculously bad at negotiations actually, as it's basically trying to convert people to Greater Good (which Orks are traditionally uncompatibile, they aren't really a biggie for scawny purple dude weaboo despotism) while giving nothing in return.

The Tau themselves are fairly well written (until the recent addition of 'spayed and neutered humans' anyway.)

It has been known since like, always, that Tau are manipulative dickheads that only pretend to be nice.

But the interaction with them (especially on the Empire's end) is just bad.  The Tau would like to negotiate with someone regarding their planned expansion: Empire says, "burn xenos scum!"  Yes, I know that the Empire is completely composed of mindless fanatics, but that is also bad writing.

I don't remember Tau being in WHFB.

The Imperium of failure and rot.

Yep, you're clearly an Chaos heretic. That's like, your regular Chaos heretic line you have there.

And when you have tens of trillions of people, attempting to impress unified thought on them just causes wholesale uprising.  If the writing were even remotely acceptable then humanity would be substantially more fucked than it is depicted.

The Imperium is hardly unified, it's mostly an loose federation that exist, because alone everyone would just die. Also, what in the Emperor's name are you rambling about now, one time "IT'S TOO GRIMDERP", the other time it's "NOT GRIMDERP" enough. Guh.

You guys need to kiss and make up.

Pardon me, but I'm not gay and I will be pretty happy if you stop trying to make me gay.

[Xantalos]

Poe's law is starting to come into effect, I can't tell whether people are actually angry or not.

[Kot]

Poe's law is starting to come into effect, I can't tell whether people are actually angry or not.

If you mean me, well, I don't usually get angry at internet, mostly just hostile since I find fighting with people over internet a good way to vent and not punch people in real life over actually important stuff.

[NullForceOmega]

I'm not angry, just utterly mystified by anyone defending bad storytelling.

[GiglameshDespair]

Poe's law is starting to come into effect, I can't tell whether people are actually angry or not.

If you mean me, well, I don't usually get angry at internet, mostly just hostile since I find fighting with people over internet a good way to vent and not punch people in real life over actually important stuff.

Please don't use this thread as your emotional venting?
It's best things do not get hostile, as you put it.

[Kot]

I'm utterly mystified by someone calling something bad storytelling when they clearly don't know a lot about it.

Poe's law is starting to come into effect, I can't tell whether people are actually angry or not.

If you mean me, well, I don't usually get angry at internet, mostly just hostile since I find fighting with people over internet a good way to vent and not punch people in real life over actually important stuff.

Please don't use this thread as your emotional venting?
It's best things do not get hostile, as you put it.

I use this whole forum as emotional venting, this one thread won't change anything, kek, and since this is circlejerking about fictional universe, it's pretty easy to vent without being hostile in serious terms... I mean, noone is actually offended by being called a heretic here, right?
Riiiight???

[nenjin]

No, we're not.

But if you keep needling other posters and admit you're using the forum to vent, guess what? You're gonna earn a ban eventually. You already got moderated for not being able to chill out once, remember? Take the hint.

[LordBaal]

I mean, noone is actually offended by being called a heretic here, right?
Riiiight???

I would! Since I truly believe in his most Holiness the Only and True Emperor of Mankind....

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I think is fine to roleplay a bit here from the point of an imperial or a filthy xenos. I doubt anyone lose the sense of reality and that we are after all, discussing a fiction work.