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[ChairmanPoo]

 Patient autonomy laws imply that anyone able to give consent has also the right to refuse a procedure or treatment.

[alexandertnt]

Honestly... ?  I think we have the right to choose our own deaths.  It seems absurd to disallow it.

I agree, in cases where the person has been judged to be thinking rationally. If I want to die, that should be my choice.

Is suicide actually illegal? It seems pointless in the case of a sucessful suicide (what are they going to do, imprison your rotting corpse?), and arresting/jailing/fining someone for attempted suicide doesnt seem like it would actually help the problem.

[Frumple]

Fairly sure it's illegal in parts of the states, at least. Certainly you can be institutionalized et al for attempting it. Not sure if or to the extent there's actual criminal laws, but yeah. Actual suicide isn't, s'far as I'm aware, but attempted suicide is (in some places), iirc. Or something very similar to illegal, anyway. E: Wiki has this to say. Looks like it's improved, somewhat, since the last time my attention noticed it. E2: But do notice that last bit re: being committed for evaluation and treatment.

As for the first bit, the problem is with the "thinking rationally" part. There's those that hold that any action that seeks death is irrational, and thus anyone that would choose death over life, regardless as to the quality of that life, is not capable of thinking rationally -- and thus can have their autonomy overruled. I'm not entirely sure how much that line of thinking is legally enshrined these days, but I'm fairly certain it's been used before. Who decides what construes rational thought, and who is capable of it?

I'd be incredibly dubious that anyone making that claim has actually experienced something like chronic, crippling pain, or even "merely" extended and intense suffering, though. People who claim there's no fate worse than death rarely seem to have. Gods know if I had to live with something like kidney stone pain on a daily basis, I'd tear my own damn throat out. Couple weeks of that under fairly heavy painkillers was bad enough.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

sometimes though people are unwilling to deal with a temporary problem, or don't believe the problem is temporary and resort to actions they regret later. nobody regrets a successful suicide but i don't think that makes a good argument

[alexandertnt]

sometimes though people are unwilling to deal with a temporary problem, or don't believe the problem is temporary and resort to actions they regret later. nobody regrets a successful suicide but i don't think that makes a good argument

What if the pain is caused by a terminal illness? Or the sufferer may experience extreme pain for the rest of their life?

[Sheb]

Here in Belgium, euthanasia is available if
a) There is no hope of treating the issue.
b) The issue cause intense, constant and intreatable suffering.
c) The patient request it repeatedly, without outside pressure, must be conscious and sound of mind, and and adult.


Interestingly, the pain doesn't have to be physical, psychological pain can be invoked. (Depression is ruled out however) For exemple last year we had a pair of deaf-born twins that requested euthanasia together as they were loosing sight and couldn't bear not to be able to see each other and communicate with each other.

[MorleyDev]

In the UK, legally a Doctor can give someone any dosage of painkillers they feel is appropriate to stop the person feeling the pain. It's written to be just vague enough to not make euthanasia legal, but allow for it so long as the Doctor's word it right (i.e never acknowledge this is what they're doing whilst still getting patient consent to do it...it's a weird one).

Personally I support euthanasia, but think we need to abandon the concept it's a dying with dignity. It's a less painful way. If you can, track down the documentary with Terry Prachett: Choosing to Die. Watch the last moments of a man who just took the final drink, hear his last words. Whilst amongst his last words are to tell his wife not to be afraid, his actually last words? A coughing fit and a choked call for "Water....", pain in his voice.

I don't think you can die with dignity.

[Skyrunner]

I wonder why he asked for water ...

[Graknorke]

I wonder why he asked for water ...

Probably because the toxin was irritating his throat.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

sometimes though people are unwilling to deal with a temporary problem, or don't believe the problem is temporary and resort to actions they regret later. nobody regrets a successful suicide but i don't think that makes a good argument

What if the pain is caused by a terminal illness? Or the sufferer may experience extreme pain for the rest of their life?

then it's a different case

[ChairmanPoo]

Rejecting  or limiting treatment is not euthanasia.  The difference is significant for legal and practical purposes

[Sheb]

I still think it's a better way to die. For one thing, it gives you the opportunity to die with your loved ones near you.

[Owlbread]

In the UK, legally a Doctor can give someone any dosage of painkillers they feel is appropriate to stop the person feeling the pain. It's written to be just vague enough to not make euthanasia legal, but allow for it so long as the Doctor's word it right (i.e never acknowledge this is what they're doing whilst still getting patient consent to do it...it's a weird one).

Personally I support euthanasia, but think we need to abandon the concept it's a dying with dignity. It's a less painful way. If you can, track down the documentary with Terry Prachett: Choosing to Die. Watch the last moments of a man who just took the final drink, hear his last words. Whilst amongst his last words are to tell his wife not to be afraid, his actually last words? A coughing fit and a choked call for "Water....", pain in his voice.

I don't think you can die with dignity.

Being able to choose the way you die is a dignified thing, I imagine. My great uncle was illegally euthanised by our old family doctor about 20 years ago (I'm not afraid of saying that here, nobody knows who I am and hopefully never will) when he was in agony in his bed, dying of very advanced cancer of the liver or something if I remember correctly. The fact that his suffering ended left him with more dignity I believe - I couldn't imagine what it would have been like to just expire like that over time, waiting, sweating, writhing.

[scriver]

Back to Russia and lgbt laws and the Olympics - in the not-quite-Olympics-but-still-World-Championships in Moscow going on right now, Swedish athlete Emma Green-Trebaro showed up with rainbow nail polish today. Swedish tv is playing it up, Russian journalists seem to not want to touch the issue at all.

Hopefully it's the first of many such protests from other athletes.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Brilliant. It's noticeable enough to be recognized, but subtle enough that it will make the Russians seem insane if they do anything about it.