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[Morrigi]

What Nietzsche has come down to in my experience is the answer to whether or not human beings ultimately have any agency over the world. If we do, Nietzsche is mostly invalid. If we don't, he's on point. I definitely admire him more on my more hopeless days.

That said, he wasn't a fascist or even properly right-wing by any stretch of the imagination, and this willfully ignorant college marxist jackass (because having met a good deal of them, they are always jackasses, it's the crawling in my skin of the early 20's) rustles my jimmies.

I thought Nietzsche's most important point was the Übermensch, which wasn't what the Nazis made out of it but rather the idea that humans should try to free themselves of societal conventions to advance towards being better humans, closer to what an ideal human should be like. I thought that was a rather positive message (and ironically quite opposite to what Hitler used it for).

Actually, I think Hitler and the Nazis understood that quite well. They wanted their people to strive towards the ideal and help one another, and they wanted other cultures and races to do the same in their own countries, and not in Germany. Hitler and Leon Degrelle have certainly said as much.

However, the Nazis used it as state propaganda, something which inherently distorts the purpose of the idea, and which I highly doubt Nietzsche intended.

[ChairmanPoo]

... Nazi apologetics in the forum? Seriously??

They wanted their people to strive towards the ideal and help one another, and they wanted other cultures and races to do the same in their own countries, and not in Germany. Hitler and Leon Degrelle have certainly said as much.

You're disregarding small irrelevant details, such as "Germany" being redefined as a space stretching from Normandy to the Urals, plans  of using natives of the former territories now encompassed by "Germany" as slave labor, and declared intentions in favor of ethnic cleansing and massacring dissenters.

[SirQuiamus]

Actually, I think Hitler and the Nazis understood that quite well. They wanted their people to strive towards the ideal and help one another, and they wanted other cultures and races to do the same in their own countries, and not in Germany. Hitler and Leon Degrelle have certainly said as much.

This is patently wrong in several ways:

1) Nietzsche did not want "his" people to "strive towards the ideal and help one another" – he had no respect for Germans and their damp slave-morality, and he often seemed to regard them culturally and racially inferior to the priestly Jews.

2) The entire Nazi ideology was a condensation of everything that Nietzsche considered base and detestable: It was reactive*, vulgar, gregarious**, slavish, and fueled by poisonous ressentiment – a picture-perfect example of butt-hurt "slaves" (Germans) rebelling against successful "priests" (Jews).

3) Nazis did not want "other cultures and races to do the same in their own countries": There was only one human race and one human culture in their world – everyone else was less-than-human.

<sub>* Their entire self-concept was based on the "wrong" they had suffered at the hands of the Allies and the imaginary Jewish conspiracy.

** How could one possibly reconcile autonomous master-morality with a morality of the masses? – that's prima facie wrong.</sub>

[Morrigi]

... Nazi apologetics in the forum? Seriously??

They wanted their people to strive towards the ideal and help one another, and they wanted other cultures and races to do the same in their own countries, and not in Germany. Hitler and Leon Degrelle have certainly said as much.

You're disregarding small irrelevant details, such as "Germany" being redefined as a space stretching from Normandy to the Urals, plans  of using natives of the former territories now encompassed by "Germany" as slave labor, and declared intentions in favor of ethnic cleansing and massacring dissenters.

Of course Nazi Germany had a hand in horrific atrocities, that's a given. So did the Soviets, the Japanese, and the Americans and Brits, although the Soviet, German, and Japanese war crimes certainly had the highest body counts.

[TD1]

I think he's accusing him of trolling. I share his apparent dislike for Nietzsche, for what it's worth, but it I'm not sure I'd support an outright ban on his works no matter how much of an asshole he was.

Hrm? No, I wasn't Trolling. Nietzsche said religious morality was injurious to society, which is what I'm referencing.

Granted, I know little of his personal life, but his religious views seem about as sound as that of Marx. His Ubermensch were those free of the restraints of religion and religious morality, and therefore could work towards a more genuine morality.

[SirQuiamus]

Nietzsche said religious morality was injurious to society, which is what I'm referencing.
...
His Ubermensch were those free of the restraints of religion and religious morality, and therefore could work towards a more genuine morality.

That's not what you said:

To not ban Nietzsche, though, would be injurious to society.

Sound familiar?

[TD1]

Of course it does. I wrote it, if you recall.

I was being lighthearted and making a reference. Sue me.

[SirQuiamus]

Of course it does. I wrote it, if you recall.

I was being lighthearted and making a reference. Sue me.

I'm just pointing out that no-one, including me, understood your intention. No offense, m8.

[Loud Whispers]

... Nazi apologetics in the forum? Seriously??

Don't be stupid, be a smarty! Come and join the Nazy party!

[Owlbread]

First Minister of Scotland Nicola Sturgeon is on the Daily Show next Monday, keep an eye out ladies and gentlemen.

[hops]

I feel physical pain every time people act like if you read Mein Kampf, you're literally Hitler.

I mean, okay, according to possibly unreliable online anecdotes, the book is kinda shippy in modern day standard, but just reading Hitler's manifesto isn't going to turn you into a Nazi. It's not the Necronomicon.

[Loud Whispers]

I feel physical pain every time people act like if you read Mein Kampf, you're literally Hitler.

I mean, okay, according to possibly unreliable online anecdotes, the book is kinda shippy in modern day standard, but just reading Hitler's manifesto isn't going to turn you into a Nazi. It's not the Necronomicon.

Nah m8 every time you read it another nazi zombie game is published by EA, that's pretty much definitive proof of the occult right there

[Helgoland]

I feel physical pain every time people act like if you read Mein Kampf, you're literally Hitler.

I mean, okay, according to possibly unreliable online anecdotes, the book is kinda shippy in modern day standard, but just reading Hitler's manifesto isn't going to turn you into a Nazi. It's not the Necronomicon.

There was this guy in Germany - a comedian, and Turkish even, I believe - who went around doing public readings of Mein Kampf. As part of his routine, but also separately in schools and such. And apparently one of the intended consequences was for the audience to realize that the book is a) badly written and b) horribly boring. It was demystification at its best.

[Sheb]

Boring? I disagree, that book is clearly in the "so bad it's good" category. It's the sharknado of political pamphlet.

[SirQuiamus]

It's pretty amazing amusing when the author says things like "we must spread lies and propaganda about the Jews for strategic reasons," and on the next page he says: "the Jews are the One True Root of All Evil, for reals, honest injun!"

If people had actually read the book, Third Reich would have been a dud.