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Author Topic: Additional CIA japes [DPRK Thread]  (Read 514957 times)

martinuzz

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Brilliant!
Combining the wisdom of Old, with the technology of New!

Let's call it the Nuke-a-pult!
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http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

Sheb

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The one advantage of a dirty bomb would be its smaller size. Anyway, NK is only going to try to destroy Seoul as a deterrent in case of an invasion.
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10ebbor10

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Not really. The main problem with smuggling the nuke are radiation detectors, and both the dirty bomb and the real nuke would set off the sensors. The dirty bomb probably even more so than the real one.

Is there any reason, really, why NK couldn't use a giant-ass cannon or slingshot to send a nuke into Seoul?
They don't have such a thing.

The other reason is that nukes are rather fragile things.
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martinuzz

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Not really. The main problem with smuggling the nuke are radiation detectors, and both the dirty bomb and the real nuke would set off the sensors. The dirty bomb probably even more so than the real one.

Is there any reason, really, why NK couldn't use a giant-ass cannon or slingshot to send a nuke into Seoul?
They don't have such a thing.

The other reason is that nukes are rather fragile things.
A nuke's electronic systems might be relatively fragile, yeah. (Yet sturdy enough to survive being launched on a ballistic platform)
A dirty bomb, however, is basically nothing more than a container with explosives and nuclear waste. Nothing fragile there.
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Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

mainiac

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That's why you don't bring it through checkpoints; you use an incursion tunnel like the four that South Korea's already discovered.  They're big enough to admit an entire infantry division in an hour, so driving a single nuclear device through would be easy (at least, relative to sneaking it through the most heavily-militarized border in the entire world).

1) We aren't talking about the KGB or CIA pulling off an operation like this, we're talking about the North Korean intelligence.  They don't have a proven history of doing complicated operations
2) This is a complicated operation.  You are taking a truck way bigger then anything commonly found in north or south korea and getting it from the middle of nowhere to a populated area.  There are a lot of things that can go wrong
3) US and SK intelligence has a good track record when it comes to tracking fissile materials in NK.  They've also caught north koreans doing much less complicated things in the past.  So the chance of detection before the truck even turns on it's engines is pretty high.

I'm not saying that it's impossible, I just dont think it's good plan for the North Koreans.  Their odds are better just putting the nuke in a missile and hoping the counter missile measures fail.
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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Culise

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That's why you don't bring it through checkpoints; you use an incursion tunnel like the four that South Korea's already discovered.  They're big enough to admit an entire infantry division in an hour, so driving a single nuclear device through would be easy (at least, relative to sneaking it through the most heavily-militarized border in the entire world).

1) We aren't talking about the KGB or CIA pulling off an operation like this, we're talking about the North Korean intelligence.  They don't have a proven history of doing complicated operations
2) This is a complicated operation.  You are taking a truck way bigger then anything commonly found in north or south korea and getting it from the middle of nowhere to a populated area.  There are a lot of things that can go wrong
3) US and SK intelligence has a good track record when it comes to tracking fissile materials in NK.  They've also caught north koreans doing much less complicated things in the past.  So the chance of detection before the truck even turns on it's engines is pretty high.

I'm not saying that it's impossible, I just dont think it's good plan for the North Koreans.  Their odds are better just putting the nuke in a missile and hoping the counter missile measures fail.
Yeah; that's why I added my own caveats on the most probable use for a nuclear device in an edit.  I honestly don't even think there are any incursion tunnels on that scale left right now; the fourth and most recent one was discovered in 1990.  It'd also have to be set up well in advance with sleeper agents, since an invasion would almost certainly render the tunnels unusable in the opening volleys due to their proximity to the warzone (all of the tunnels emerge within the DMZ, albeit beyond the demarcation line), and that would add the significant risk of those agents being turned by the general prosperity available in the south; given the number of people who have done a runner across the DMZ, even cherry-picked agents who are already in the ROK would likely be at far greater risk of turning since they don't have that risk involved. 

Besides, they already have Seoul as a hostage to conventional artillery, at least theoretically.  There isn't much more they need do to enhance that, other than building an Atomic Annie at a significant cost compared to the resources available to them domestically (there's no way China would encourage their nuclear ambitions further, given how much of an embarrassment P'yongyang has already been to them) as was alluded to earlier in the thread, or as you say, mounting the warheads on an upscaled Nodong or Taepodong. 
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 11:24:46 am by Culise »
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Loud Whispers

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You're also forgetting the chance for Nuclear suicide bombing. Place a nuke in a submarine, float it under the closest US fleet (Sub will go undetected as it can stay deep in the water, and doesn't need to open hatches to fire it's torpedo's, for example) and detonate. A few weapons detonated in such fashion can eliminate concentrated US fleet presence in the near Pacific.
Much cheaper to just use torpedoes or detonate the subs under expensive ships like carriers with conventional explosives.

Also read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baengnyeong_incident
Murikans and SKans think a midget submarine may have destroyed an anti-sub corvette with a torpedo, cleaved in two when the explosion created a massive bubble underneath it. This massive bubble plays havoc with the pressures around the ship and are one of the worst case scenarios for a warship sailing over a landmine.


Plus, who's to say they would even use a submarine?
'North Korea is reportedly developing nuclear sea mines with an eye toward neutralizing the naval supremacy of the U.S. and other countries in the event of a conflict.'
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 12:55:16 pm by Loud Whispers »
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mainiac

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Plus, who's to say they would even use a submarine?
'North Korea is reportedly developing nuclear sea mines with an eye toward neutralizing the naval supremacy of the U.S. and other countries in the event of a conflict.'

A nuclear sea mine would act as a deterrent to slow the SK and US navies down (hidden among a forest of non-nuclear mines).  But it's not an offensive weapon and certainly can't be a first strike.  There's still no way to get it into position.  Now if they could get their hands on a nuclear submarine to deploy the thing, it's a pretty scary weapon.
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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martinuzz

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Nuclear Sea Mines would allow the dolphin hive mind to send suicide bumping whales to end the world.
Thank you for all the fish.
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http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

Loud Whispers

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A nuclear sea mine would act as a deterrent to slow the SK and US navies down (hidden among a forest of non-nuclear mines).  But it's not an offensive weapon and certainly can't be a first strike.  There's still no way to get it into position.  Now if they could get their hands on a nuclear submarine to deploy the thing, it's a pretty scary weapon.
A nuclear sea mine would very well be able to destroy an invasion fleet. Park it in the Yellow Sea or the Sea of Japan and an invasion will not happen. It serves its purpose in denying the entire area to any other fleets. If they could get their hands on a nuclear submarine, forget the fleets - the NK Navy would now have the ability to park a nuke right next to belligerent countries and that's a whole other scenario.

Nuclear Sea Mines would allow the dolphin hive mind to send suicide bumping whales to end the world.
Thank you for all the fish.
...Japan gets nuked for the third time, everyone blames North Korea. Too late does humanity notice the significance of the targets. Then Norway and the Faroe Islands are devoured in a sea of fins, and everything changes when the dolphins attack. End game scenario.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 06:10:35 pm by Loud Whispers »
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Powder Miner

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In an ironic twist of fate, Nebraska and Wyoming become the post-apoc USA's greatest population centers.
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Culise

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In an ironic twist of fate, Nebraska and Wyoming become the post-apoc USA's greatest population centers.

Yes, and Wyoming shall lead the Great War of Revenge against the dolphins with their mighty aircraft carrier. *cough*
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 10:00:10 pm by Culise »
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mainiac

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A nuclear sea mine would act as a deterrent to slow the SK and US navies down (hidden among a forest of non-nuclear mines).  But it's not an offensive weapon and certainly can't be a first strike.  There's still no way to get it into position.  Now if they could get their hands on a nuclear submarine to deploy the thing, it's a pretty scary weapon.
A nuclear sea mine would very well be able to destroy an invasion fleet. Park it in the Yellow Sea or the Sea of Japan and an invasion will not happen.


So... you agree with me...?
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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Loud Whispers

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So... you agree with me...?
You put too much emphasis on a suicide sub attacking an invasion fleet, which I find would be a lot more impractical than detonating one nuclear mine and saying there's more, whether there's more or not.

Sheb

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But then with a mine you need a lot of them to make sure that the enemy fleet will likely go over it.
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