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Author Topic: [ORC] The Proud Orcish Rebalance  (Read 22528 times)

Meph

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Re: [ORC] The Proud Orcish Rebalance
« Reply #150 on: January 12, 2014, 03:48:52 pm »

I've been playing as the rebalanced orcs for a little while and I was thinking that maybe you should add a building that is equivalent to the dwarven emissary building. That way you can make it so orcs can call for more migrants and purposely cause seiges.
They dont have one already?
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Gamerlord

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Re: [ORC] The Proud Orcish Rebalance
« Reply #151 on: January 12, 2014, 03:53:25 pm »

I've been playing as the rebalanced orcs for a little while and I was thinking that maybe you should add a building that is equivalent to the dwarven emissary building. That way you can make it so orcs can call for more migrants and purposely cause seiges.
They dont have one already?
Don't think so.

shadowclasper

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Re: [ORC] The Proud Orcish Rebalance
« Reply #152 on: January 12, 2014, 05:27:58 pm »

Just add a "Tribal Hall" for meetings between various ambassadors and such.
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Meph

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Re: [ORC] The Proud Orcish Rebalance
« Reply #153 on: January 12, 2014, 05:31:39 pm »

I think the raiding covers the "force siege" enough. Talking to diplomats is probably not orcish enough, but I would love to see a few reactions in a fitting workshop for "force migrant", "force caravan" and maybe even forcing caravans of otherwise hostile races, like elves, humans, drow, dwarves and gnomes. Even if you are at war with them, their spawned caravans are friendly and can be traded with.
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shadowclasper

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Re: [ORC] The Proud Orcish Rebalance
« Reply #154 on: January 12, 2014, 05:57:49 pm »

Well...

just a thought.

How about you 'ambush caravans' and redirect them into your own place. You can either suck them dry, trade with them properly, or kill everybody and deconstruct the wagons.

forcing migrants could be done by petitioning other clans.
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Urist McTeellox

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Re: [ORC] The Proud Orcish Rebalance
« Reply #155 on: January 12, 2014, 07:58:24 pm »

Orcs already have immigration, caravan, and trade fair options at the general/common caravansearai:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

All caravanserai require some degree of military success to build, requiring a standard of honour. I think that's fitting; only clans that have made a name for themselves can attract extra migrants and traders.

Right now wars can be provoked through raiding, although you're not guaranteed of a counter-attack on every raid. I'd like to add more expensive raids that return higher quality loot, and have a much greater chance of provoking a siege, but that's still on my todo list. (Patches welcome!)

~ T
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Shadow9657

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Re: [ORC] The Proud Orcish Rebalance
« Reply #156 on: January 12, 2014, 08:03:12 pm »

Woops, Sorry I didn't see that in the manual or think to look there. My bad.
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Gamerlord

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Re: [ORC] The Proud Orcish Rebalance
« Reply #157 on: January 12, 2014, 08:04:33 pm »

Need raid targets and loot lists?

Urist McTeellox

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Re: [ORC] The Proud Orcish Rebalance
« Reply #158 on: January 12, 2014, 08:35:22 pm »

Woops, Sorry I didn't see that in the manual or think to look there. My bad.

Actually, it's probably not in the manual, and the Caravanserai info seems to be out of date (it still mentions blueprints, rather than standards of honour). I don't suppose you fancy helping fixt that for me?

Here is the relevant section, and there's a link to editing help down the bottom. It's a wiki, and *very* easy to edit.  (You will need a free github account, but that only takes a few seconds).  Be bold with your edits; it's trivial for me to revert changes if things don't work. :)

And to anyone else watching, I *love* people fixing up the manual. And yes, the wiki version is used directly to generate the one that comes bundled with Masterwork/Orc Fortress.

Many, many thanks!

~ T
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Urist McTeellox

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Re: [ORC] The Proud Orcish Rebalance
« Reply #159 on: January 12, 2014, 08:40:28 pm »

Need raid targets and loot lists?

Oh goodness, yes please. Yes please so much. Bonus points if they're already in reaction format, but anything will do.

Bonus points if you record them in this ticket, even if that's posting on the forums and just linking to the post. I am terrible when it comes to keeping track of things in long threads, whereas tickets make it easy for me to collate summaries and see what's going on.

~ T
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Gamerlord

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Re: [ORC] The Proud Orcish Rebalance
« Reply #160 on: January 12, 2014, 08:47:32 pm »

Sure, but I've never actually used GitHub... oh well I'll figure it out.

Urist McTeellox

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Re: [ORC] The Proud Orcish Rebalance
« Reply #161 on: January 12, 2014, 08:49:45 pm »

Sure, but I've never actually used GitHub... oh well I'll figure it out.

The wiki and tickets are pretty darn easy. It's git itself that has a bit of a learning curve¹, but you won't be needing that here. :)

Many thanks!

~ T

¹ Not as bad a learning curve as Dwarf Fortress
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shadowclasper

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Re: [ORC] The Proud Orcish Rebalance
« Reply #162 on: January 12, 2014, 08:50:28 pm »

Teellox? What do you think of the idea of Orcs having a different relationship with ironbone and bloodsteel than warlocks? And thus having a different 3rd material in their tribal forge (calling it that to avoid confusion with the warlock's boneforge) than dreadnaught? I originally suggested a metal, but Meph disliked that, so perhaps a stone that could then be used in the tribal warcrafter to make tribal weapons with greater damage?

(25% stronger than steel, half the weight of steel, and causes 50% more damage when used in ammo or weapons were the stats I thought it might use. Requires 1 bloodsteel, 1 fuel, and perhaps a memorial or set of scalps or something).

The other idea I had was rather than a tribal forge, it's a tribal firepit. Allows you to turn corpses into memorials (the idea is burning the bodies to ashes then containing them inside their own memorial).

What do you think?

Edit: Also I have an idea, what if you limited raids by the size of raiding areas?

You start off with just a raiding dry docks. This upgrades to a raiding full dock, and finally a raiding port? (or something).

As for locations.

1) Village/Town/City/Capital equivalents for every race.
2) Raiding rival orc clans
3) Raiding elven lands in general for just scalps and souls
4) Raiding trade routes for more general goods
5) Raiding good/evil lands for special goods only found in them.
6) Raiding warlocks for souls, and other materials
7) Raiding ruins obviously, but have a very low chance of any success at all.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2014, 08:54:19 pm by shadowclasper »
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Gamerlord

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Re: [ORC] The Proud Orcish Rebalance
« Reply #163 on: January 12, 2014, 08:53:53 pm »

Sure, but I've never actually used GitHub... oh well I'll figure it out.

The wiki and tickets are pretty darn easy. It's git itself that has a bit of a learning curve¹, but you won't be needing that here. :)

Many thanks!

~ T

¹ Not as bad a learning curve as Dwarf Fortress
Already stuck up some ideas for raiding targets and maybe loot. Will think up more later, reading fanfic now.

Urist McTeellox

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Re: [ORC] The Proud Orcish Rebalance
« Reply #164 on: January 12, 2014, 09:25:02 pm »

Teellox? What do you think of the idea of Orcs having a different relationship with ironbone and bloodsteel than warlocks? And thus having a different 3rd material in their tribal forge (calling it that to avoid confusion with the warlock's boneforge) than dreadnaught? I originally suggested a metal, but Meph disliked that, so perhaps a stone that could then be used in the tribal warcrafter to make tribal weapons with greater damage?

This is a hard question, because it gets into some core balance issues. Right now orcs can jump to bloodsteel pretty much immediately, because bone, blood, and ash are all extremely plentiful (orcs will butcher anything). However I feel that steel level materials should provide at least a moderate challenge to obtain.

That ties into the fact that all the orcish enemies all turn up with steel; there's no 'weak enemy' equivalent of goblins for orcs. There's been some discussion of this on other threads, but I like the idea of splitting humans into `commoners` and `imperials` best of all, with the former being a new goblin-equivalent for the evil races.

I like the idea of honouring the fallen with special materials/items. I'm not sure how we'd get the game mechanics to trigger an event when a clan-member falls (there might be a hook for unit death in DFHack), but I'd look at providing a buff/interaction producing item.

Right now I'm at work, but I promise to catch up on all the threads when I get home. (I love your ideas, so I really do want to respond.)  In the meantime, I've open a ticket to make sure I track things down; (if you add links to discussion there then that's *super* appreciated!), and I'm trying to keep track of everything in my big list of orc issues and enhancements (again, feel free to add to this list and comment where appropriate).

~ T
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