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[Kot]

Warp entities pretty much say this exact thing.

Now wether you belive them or not...

True, but in this case they didn't have much reason to lie. When you're just a schlub space marine who has no business being in the warp, and they haven't et you already, would seem strange to still take the time to lie to you.

Also there was some acid-trippy "time and space are meaningless" moments in the text as well.

As for the reason to lie - it's  warp entities. And, well, there is stuff like Ordo Chronos and so on, but the fact the Warp can be used to time travel doesn't necessarily mean Chaos Gods were around always becuase time travel. While, yes, some unsentient form of them was around for damn long time, but the sentient ones which had to be "born" aren't really Gods when it comes to material world and aren't really omnipotent when it comes to Immaterium anyway, which means they might take time more "fluid" than us but don't really have ability to do stuff before getting fucked into existence or something.

[LordBaal]

Exactly. Even if the Warp has "no time" realspace do. And you can see in real space they only got "awake" or intrusive after certain points in time.

[nenjin]

But in theory, they could have always existed in the Warp. Maybe they see the entire span of time from their side and by necessity interacting with our universe requires it happens "at some time."

i.e., that's why they don't just go back in time and kill the Emperor. They may have even known he was going to reneg on their deal but took the gamble he wouldn't.

[Kot]

But in theory, they could have always existed in the Warp.

They did kind of exist always, as some kind of force created from the emotions, but only got sentient (as in, became gods instead of... spirits?) in one certain point in time.

[LordBaal]

I would call them warp anomalies. After all, everything in Warhammer could be explained by science in universe, it's just that most of our perspective on it comes from the eroded and scientifically stagnant Imperium.

Is like, if ghost where real (they are not), then there would be a realistic measurable cause of their existence, empirically proved by science. It's not me denying "mystical stuff", it's just how the whole fucking universe works.

Everything can and will be explained by science eventually, even things we can't today, will be tomorrow as science progress.

[Kot]

Yeah, It's not like they're actually gods, since nothing about them is actually supernatural. And in their case their cause of existence is emotions, which also means that if Warhammer 40k was noblebright they would actually be pretty nice guys.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I think there's a decent case to be made that they, and the Empyrean in general, are supernatural. It doesn't follow any consistent laws of existence and can change on a whim, therefore it can never truly be known.

[spazyak]

I think there's a decent case to be made that they, and the Empyrean in general, are supernatural. It doesn't follow any consistent laws of existence and can change on a whim, therefore it can never truly be known.

*cough*subatomic physics *cough*

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Subatomic physics are a consistent field. Even quantum phenomena, while often weird and contrary to human expectations, are still consistently uncertain.

But the warp? Shit, there's no way to know what will happen. Now, granted, a lot of things happen with pretty high frequency, and most of these things are very, very terrible for the living and mortal, but you can't ever assume consistency.

[Kot]

Actually, the Warp is emotions, this is why it's so random. And emotions, as in psychics can be predicted more or less accurately. Sadly, we're so bad at ourselves that in the end it seems that those don't follow laws of existence or whatever. In Wh40k you can basically scientifically prove that most things have soul of some kind and thanks to the soul "impact" on the Warp (kind of spacetime distortion) and thanks to some souls being more powerful (also some of them feeling a lot of intense emotions, usually terrible which leads to high frequency of things that are very, very terrible for the living and mortal) than others and the fact there is simply so many of them, the Warp turns unstable. You can't assume consistency simply because there is so much variables and poorly understood variables to that. All it takes is one person with strong will and "good" emotions for it to get a little better and in turn maybe preventing someone somewhere from getting skullfucked by deamons. It is somehow predictable on larger scale - if everyone in Galaxy suddenly turned nice and whatnot, the Chaos Gods would proably turn into actually nice beings which in turn would lead to decerase of deamons eating souls and in turn proably lead to everything being a better place or someshit.
TL;DR
In Wh40k psychic is as much of science as physics.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

The warp isn't just emotions anymore. Your description would have been accurate for the Realm of Souls days, but after the start of daemons and Chaos I don't think the warp would get better even if 40K went noblebright. While other parts of the warp are essentially free soul output, Chaos is...alive. Sentient as a whole being. It acts with intent within the warp to change it and itself, to preserve its own nature. That is why exposure to Chaos can cause corruption that carries over into the Materium.

That's not even getting into some of the ideas that pass around about the Deep Warp...

[Kot]

The warp isn't just emotions anymore. Your description would have been accurate for the Realm of Souls days, but after the start of daemons and Chaos I don't think the warp would get better even if 40K went noblebright. While other parts of the warp are essentially free soul output, Chaos is...alive. Sentient as a whole being. It acts with intent within the warp to change it and itself, to preserve its own nature. That is why exposure to Chaos can cause corruption that carries over into the Materium.

That's not even getting into some of the ideas that pass around about the Deep Warp...

The description is right because whole warp is... "Collective Unconscious" of everything. And Chaos is the worst of emotions, the unimaginable pain, the most disgusting rape fantasies of those in Materium. Every little thought or emotion affects the Empyrean to some degree, most people can't do much to the warp on their own, but lots of people thinking similar thoughts or feeling similar things will have an pronounced effect. This is the reason why the Chaos Gods, are well, chaotic to the extreme, because the Material Universe and everybody inhabiting it are themselves chaotic to the extreme and in need of serious psychiatric therapy. However this doesn't mean there are no benevolent entities in warp, the problem is that either that specific benevolent entity is the Emperor (who's now catatonic while his soul is being used as a psychic navigation lighthouse in the Warp called the Astronomicon), or they interfere with Materium once in a billion years, and when they do, they actually do nothing of significance. Also, benevolent entities would get consumed by evil entities, and/or are quickly exaggerated or "Warp"ed into something evil due to the massive amount of suffering in the material world. The whole thing about Chaos acting to be Chaos, is... it's not exactly sentient. They just do it because of the momentum. They're not inherently... evil. Khorne is also god of courage, mercy, determination, regret, fear and honour. Nurgle is acceptance, love (yes, love), empathy, tradition and memory. Slannesh is kindness, sensuality, DRUGS, expression, individuality, HEAVY METAL, joy and admiration. Tzzentch is the god of trust, aspiration, progress, knowledge, will, change and protection. There is still, of course, the deamons, Enslavers and whatever that just eats souls, but that is simply the fault of Old Ones and Necron war (this was the whole reason the Warp got unstable, thus the reason of future creation of Chaos Gods and basically everything else bad - and people are saying that they're suprised War in Heaven didin't cause Chaos Gods to pop up - IT DID CAUSE EVERYTHING) which wouldn't dissapear the second 40K went noblebright, but the now nice guy Chaos Gods would certainly stop them from fucking up souls (they aren't exactly happy of that nowadays too, no souls - no emotions) so badly and the whole corruption you mentioned would cease, because that is simply the condensed madness of all other madnesess of Universe thrown at someone.

Honestly speaking, one of best analogies is internet. If everyone were as bad as /b/, /d/, /mlp/, etc. the whole thing would be a hellhole that would be spilling (it already does, sometimes) to "real world" too, but if used properly and the madness is kept in check it allows for much faster communication and whatnot. It's not bad per se, it's just uncontrolable.
(This proably feels like it got cut in middle because that is basically true, I have some things to do and I don't feel like scrapping the whole thing and rewriting later, so there you go).

[miauw62]

The Warp would basically be a bit like a brain: individual neurons are pretty well-understood, but we have no clue how the human brain works.

[LordBaal]

Yup, but even as misterious it is, the warp can be measured, tracked and used at some extent. This would take it off the shelf of supernatural onto not yet fully understood natural phenomena. A weird, unpredictable, mortally dangerous, phenomena, but natural at the end. It's very similar to the climate in fact.

And as the climate, it has been altered by the hand of people (emissions in our case, the war in heaven in 40K) and latter generations paid for it.

And no, I'm not Al Gore

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[sprinkled chariot]

Well, in theory, full understanding of the warp is possible, if one manages to convince eldar to let him into black with  some good argument or eloquence of bolter fire.

By the way, I cant understand are alpha legionares heretics or they are actually fighting war for imperium, but in the way, which is hard to understand?
Also after checking up on heretical legions, it seems, like emperor partially  engineered horus heresy to be something like thunder warriors purging, as nearly all rioting legions were not that awesome/ too insane to be useful after the ending of great crusade.