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I am religious and believe in free will

70 (27.6%)

I am religious and do not believe in free will

10 (3.9%)

I am not religious and believe in free will

113 (44.5%)

I am not religious and do not believe in free will

61 (24%)

Total Members Voted: 249

[Rolan7]

I maybe got a bit carried away, but I was referring to cases like Genesis 18, regarding Sodom and Gomorrah, where Abraham haggles God from "Definitely will destroy them all" to "Will spare the cities if they have 50 righteous men" to 45 to 40 to 30 to 20 and finally to 10, after which God "went his way" rather than argue further.  Before this God even wonders to himself:

18:17 And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do;

There's also the practice of prayer, which makes perfect sense if God isn't of infinite intellect.  It's a way to crowdsource the triage of issues needing attention.

Also, I happened across a line which supports my point that the Biblical God is limited:

And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.

[TD1]

That could just be saying that God's people couldn't drive 'em out.

[Rolan7]

I totally respect playing the devil's advocate, particularly when we don't have enough vocal Christians here, but that passage seems explicit.  It doesn't say that the Israelites failed despite God's blessing, but that he himself couldn't defeat the inhabitants.  Due to their iron chariots.

[Orange Wizard]

The wording there is pretty funky, but I'd still agree with Dwarfy.

[Helgoland]

In a different translation it's 'they', not 'he'. Makes much more sense. Does anyone here know enough Hebrew to conclusively settle the matter?

[That Wolf]

*breaks promise

So I heard something from somebody today and nobody here has said anything about it. In reference to the garden of eden:
The apple eating in the garden of Eden is representing sex, god didnt want humanity reproducing and punished us for this.
Any thoughts on its validity?
It makes the first testament seem like a massive error log with god using his 'limited' powers to fix the fuck ups he made.
Especialy the nephilim, what are also mentioned in sumarian texts
Why do angels even have working reproductive organs?
So..
Many..
PLOT HOLES!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[citation] is not needed. We are on the internet! Dont be lazy

edit:reading it made me laugh so I added a word to lower comedic value

[origamiscienceguy]

Where does the bible say angels reproduce?

That statement makes no sense because God specifically told Adam and Eve "be fruitful and multiply" (Genesis 1:28)

[That Wolf]

Where does it say angels reproduce, are you kidding me!
Haha wtf are nephilim then?
Why did god flood the earth again??
The sumarian text says something like 'the sons of gods found the daughter of man attractive and created half breeds'

[origamiscienceguy]

Mark 12:25. For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

Giants were already on earth. (genesis 6:4) "There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown."

Nephillum means "to fall" so the nephillum are the fallen angels who most likely possessed humans and made them breed.

[That Wolf]

That statement makes no sense because God specifically told Adam and Eve "be fruitful and multiply" (Genesis 1:28)

How about look at it from my perspective. Maybe the "be fruitful and multiply" is literal, not a comandment but a law. Be fruit full (eat fruit) and multiply.

[origamiscienceguy]

The definition of fruitful is producing many offspring. I have no idea where you are getting this idea from. Fruitful in no way means to eat fruit.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

......

[Orange Wizard]

It might mean to bear fruit, but in this context it's pretty explicitly reproduction.

[origamiscienceguy]

bear fruit means the same as produce offspring.

[That Wolf]

I though bear fruit was like aligator pears?

The bible has been around for a few translations, also nobody except adam and eve heard what god said
Wording terms like 'fruitful' didnt exsist at the time, but where developed by many people.
Why would god and the first two humans need special wording about birthing?

The bible is open to interpretation.
Dont get caught up in wording invented by society.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

im confident in that comment