Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

I am religious and believe in free will

70 (27.6%)

I am religious and do not believe in free will

10 (3.9%)

I am not religious and believe in free will

113 (44.5%)

I am not religious and do not believe in free will

61 (24%)

Total Members Voted: 249

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

Sorry I meant it being used to bring people to a specific city with the intent of attracting tourists/more revenue for the city the pilgrimage is called to.
IIRC the reason for that pillar of Islam was because there were idols in the city and since Islam is against idols they needed some sort of compromise so people would still go to the city while still getting rid of the idols. Or something like that

[Frumple]

Dude should declare a year of interpretive dance, such that all catholic politicians and religious figures can only communicate publicly through phat moves. That would be a good year.

[penguinofhonor]

.

[Helgoland]

Dude should declare a year of interpretive dance, such that all catholic politicians and religious figures can only communicate publicly through phat moves. That would be a good year.

Spoiler: And suddenly the Papal States rise again (click to show/hide)

[Frumple]

That's exactly what led to the thought, yes.

[Bohandas]

Obligatory.

What did I just watch

It looks like a bad acid trip.

(I've also looked up a plot synopsis of the movie that this was from, and from the description it gives of the plot I get the impression that the film's writer may have indeed been on acid)

[zchris13]

One day Superman will descend from the skies and we will all join him in the sun, and a new age of superheroes will dawn.
This is what I believe.

[origamiscienceguy]

One day Superman will descend from the skies and we will all join him in the sun, and a new age of superheroes will dawn.
This is what I believe.

Just make sure you're not dizzy when that happens. 

[monkey]

Dude should declare a year of interpretive dance, such that all catholic politicians and religious figures can only communicate publicly through phat moves. That would be a good year.

Spoiler: And suddenly the Papal States rise again (click to show/hide)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSHaVH9HhfI , these russian moves must be saying a lot then.

[TD1]

Would that be equivilent to the Islamic requirment for a pilgrimage to Meca?

Not at all - those pilgrimages are one of the five pillars of Islam, while the Holy Year is mostly fluff, to be honest.

And a convenient tourism boost, let's not forget.

[origamiscienceguy]

Question for a catholic, what is the details about this event? I have not heard of it before.

[Rolan7]

I was listening to a bible study on Youtube and learned something new again!  Related to the binding of Isaac discussion earlier, which this quote links back to conveniently.

To be fair, they kind of did blood rituals anyway.

((although I totally agree that the whole story is kinda scary))

It's worse than that!  Isaac wasn't the only human sacrifice God demanded, just the only one who was spared apparently.

Once again I'll be investigating a list compiled by skeptics, but I don't have time to go into as much detail as they did.  Though as usual, they include questionable edge cases for completeness sake:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/human_sacrifice.html

Numbers 31:25-40 http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/num/31.html#25

31:25 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,   
31:26 Take the sum of the prey that was taken, both of man and of beast, thou, and Eleazar the priest, and the chief fathers of the congregation:
...
31:29 Take it of their half, and give it unto Eleazar the priest, for an heave offering of the LORD.
...
31:34 And threescore and one thousand asses,   
31:35 And thirty and two thousand persons in all, of women that had not known man by lying with him.
...
31:40 And the persons were sixteen thousand; of which the LORD's tribute was thirty and two persons.
31:41 And Moses gave the tribute, which was the LORD's heave offering, unto Eleazar the priest, as the LORD commanded Moses.

Of note is that, as flipping usual, women are counted alongside cattle.  Though that's hardly the worst part of what's happening here.  God is explicitly commanding the Israelites to sacrifice human virgins to him, and there's no mention of this being out of the ordinary.  It is simply done, alongside all the animal sacrifice.  It really reads like captured women, like all the other property they get in all the many wars they wage, are perfectly normal sacrifices.

I don't know what to think of this one:

22:29 Thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe fruits, and of thy liquors: the firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me.
22:30 Likewise shalt thou do with thine oxen, and with thy sheep: seven days it shall be with his dam; on the eighth day thou shalt give it me.

I have trouble believing this means what it looks like it means.  Even the livestock sacrifice seems like a ridiculously high tithe.  I'm going to assume that it's being metaphorical regarding the Israelite sons.  But it seems fairly explicit, weirdly.

Finally, here's one that's similar to Isaac's sacrifice except infinitely worse:  Judges 11:29-40 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/jg/11.html#29)
Too much to quote, so: God approaches Jephthah, who wants to conquer the Ammonites.  In exchange for God's help, he promises to sacrifice the first thing that exits his doorway to greet him when he returns home (what the hell??).  God finds this acceptable and helps Jephthah slaughter the Ammonites.  20 conquered cities later, the people of Ammon were subdued to Israel, so Jephthah goes home.
OH NO his daughter (and only child) rushes out to greet him!

11:35 And it came to pass, when he saw her, that he rent his clothes, and said, Alas, my daughter! thou hast brought me very low, and thou art one of them that trouble me: for I have opened my mouth unto the LORD, and I cannot go back.

"Dammit girl this is all your fault"
"Oh, well, I guess you promised.  But please let me... uh... go hang out in the mountains with my friends for a couple months.  I promise I'll come back, I just need to bewail my virginity."
"Okay sounds reasonable"
*2 months later*
"Woah what, you actually came back?  Uh okay... let's do this then."
"Alright.  By the way, about my virginity - URK BLEH I AM DEAD"
"My daughter was definitely still a virgin if anybody asks!"
But yeah.  Two months his daughter cries in the mountains, and God doesn't raise a single objection.  Human sacrifice in exchange for victory in an offensive war: Bible approved.

Then of course there's Jesus himself, but we're all familiar with that sacrifice.  It's obviously a special case, and removes the need for any further blood sacrifice.  God is finally appeased permanently.

God does forbid human sacrifice a few times... but only to other Gods.  In conclusion, the Bible supports blood sacrifice of humans and animals to appease God, and it is arguably the central theme of both testaments.  In different ways.

[UXLZ]

@Rolan7

Funny that with God being omniscient It knew exactly what that man's sacrifice would be... It knew it would be the daughter.

I still think the view of 'God' as being representative of the collective human consciousness (in this case, the barbarism of the olden times) is the most interesting interpretation.

Still though, taken literally it's internally consistent. In a universe where God as seemingly described exist there is literally nothing other than God that matters. If God thinks blood sacrifice is A-OK, then blood sacrifice is A-OK.

[Rolan7]

Doesn't take a god to see that promise and know that it's going to be a family member, heh.  Just a basic familiarity with mythological tropes.

It's consistent on the issue of blood sacrifice, yeah, but I think this sort of behavior does show inconsistency when compared to the New Testament.  Since a lot of the NT claims that God is merciful, and loves us all, and isn't willing that any of us perish.  Even if we accept that human sacrifice is "good", since God demands it, it still doesn't match the qualities he's given in the New Testament.

[UXLZ]

Of course, but we're talking about this event as something that actually happened at the time.

It just wants us to be sacrificed so we die and got to heaven and are closer to It. It's misunderstood and just wants to be loved, man... Or, something, I dunno.

Doesn't really matter, God can be as whimsical and as inconsistent as It wants and still be always right, always. (Because 'Utterly Perfect' and stuff. Of course, it's an Informed Attribute that conveniently let people hand wave any issues, but... *shrug*
Maybe, at the time, human sacrifices were needed for... Whatever reason, strengthening the gene pool or something. Of course, being Omniscient and Omnipotent there is never and argument as to why God doesn't just make everything awesome and happy forever if It actually cares for Humanity at all. (Of course, one can argue that something such as that is not really 'living', but... Well, Omnipotent, remember? God can make it 'really living'.)
There's a logical to conclusion to this, though. I wonder if others will reach it.