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I am religious and believe in free will

70 (27.6%)

I am religious and do not believe in free will

10 (3.9%)

I am not religious and believe in free will

113 (44.5%)

I am not religious and do not believe in free will

61 (24%)

Total Members Voted: 249

[Graknorke]

Because Islam is culture and true, jihads are just islamophobes if you agree you're a white supremacist and maybe you should let yourself get enriched a bit?

[Orange Wizard]

That sounds... dangerous.

[Bohandas]

Quantum Zeno effect

You know, I'd heard about that effect before but totally forgot it was a thing until you mentioned it.

I wonder if it could be used to keep the fissile material in a nuclear bomb viable for longer. And if so dies the gobernment already use that. And if yes to 1 and no to 2, why not?

[Rolepgeek]

Quantum mechanic's effect on my thought processes are inherently unpredictable, therefore I have free will.

Can randomness really be called a meaningful choice? If you say that free will comes from randomness, literally everything has free will and it's still not anything worth cherishing.

'Everything has free will' does not lead to 'free will is not worth cherishing'.

Quantum Zeno effect, Telgin. plus I don't necessarily believe that I have to magically influence it in order to have free will. Though the concept is fairly meaningless

Going to be honest... I'm not sure I see how the quantum Zeno effect affects anything here.  I am operating on 5 hours of sleep, so maybe I'm just missing something.

In order for us to have free will, our decisions have to come from something other than determinism and random behavior.  What other possibilities even exist, aside from something immeasurable and divine / magical?  So far as I can tell, the quantum Zeno effect is just influencing randomness, but it's still random results.  The measurements that cause the influence themselves must be either deterministic or random, right?  I don't see how you can avoid determinism or randomness as long as you stick with physics.

I disagree.

[Telgin]

Well... okay.  I'm curious what else you think can bring about free will, but I guess you'd have volunteered it if you wanted to keep this conversation going.  Or we just have incompatible understandings of what free will is.

Probably for the best anyway, since I've grown a bit sour about talking about free will anyway.  Last time I had a serious conversation with someone about it, I sent them into spiraling depression...

[Loud Whispers]

Probably for the best anyway, since I've grown a bit sour about talking about free will anyway.  Last time I had a serious conversation with someone about it, I sent them into spiraling depression...

That's awesome, determinists make me depressed too

[Rolepgeek]

Well... okay.  I'm curious what else you think can bring about free will, but I guess you'd have volunteered it if you wanted to keep this conversation going.  Or we just have incompatible understandings of what free will is.

Probably for the best anyway, since I've grown a bit sour about talking about free will anyway.  Last time I had a serious conversation with someone about it, I sent them into spiraling depression...

I just don't think that determinism+randomness means there's no such thing as free will.

[Bohandas]

Well... okay.  I'm curious what else you think can bring about free will, but I guess you'd have volunteered it if you wanted to keep this conversation going.  Or we just have incompatible understandings of what free will is.

That's the big problem, it's a very poorly defined term.

[Rolan7]

Yeah I'm not sure what it's supposed to mean, and I'm pretty sure it means very different things to various people.  I'm sure a professional philosopher could say some interesting things about it, but in the end I don't see what difference it could make. 

I mean, I'm open to the idea of universes constantly splitting on the quantum scale...  But that doesn't give me any more agency than I already have, just changes the sensory input and my brain chemistry.  Pick a line on the quantum tree and the question's the same:  If it was always going to happen this way, did I have a choice?

Well yeah, I thought about the thing and made the choice, like I was always going to.  Is that "free will"?  I don't understand the question.

[Bohandas]

Well yeah, I thought about the thing and made the choice, like I was always going to.  Is that "free will"?  I don't understand the question.

That's just "will"

[Arx]

This is why free will is such a nebulous concept and I'm so dubious of theodicies revolving around it. Well, that and the implicit other issues, but mainly that.

I mean, I voted for 'no free will', but that's only in a highly theoretical sense. It's all rather complicated, really.

[Grimlocke]

Will is a function of the brain. Does it get to decide a thing? Huzzah, you have free will!

That wasn't so hard. These things are all so much easier if you don't get mired in made up metaphysical rhubarb. I think the part where most went wrong is where they assumed they were some sort of magical being inhabiting a human body, then realized the brain makes all the decisions and feel their existence as a 'soul' is threatened.

Which makes it all the more surprising to see the atheist make up the majority of the 'no free will' group.

I especially like the cat-leap of logic that suggested there can be no free will without a divine force directing all we do.

[Orange Wizard]

Will is a function of the brain. Does it get to decide a thing? Huzzah, you have free will!

No, that's just choices. Free will is by definition non-deterministic. If our choices are ultimately the product of external stimuli, then it's not free will.

Admittedly this is just a semantics argument, but w/e, it's the definition I had in mind when I made the poll.

[nullBolt]

I really think this is a very bad discussion topic because it's gonna go nowhere and it's been debated forever through history without any resolution. 

[Antioch]

Will is a function of the brain. Does it get to decide a thing? Huzzah, you have free will!

No, that's just choices. Free will is by definition non-deterministic. If our choices are ultimately the product of external stimuli, then it's not free will.

Admittedly this is just a semantics argument, but w/e, it's the definition I had in mind when I made the poll.

I believe our choices are ultimately deterministic.

However a lot of people make some really odd conclusions when you state there is no "free" will.