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[TricMagic]

You still aren't making me think you're town NQT. If you could I'd be willing to switch to web. Lying in this game isn't a good thing, given part of my plan involved the Inspect you had actually working. Want to retract that statement?

I'd honestly suggest you go after web with everything you got, in revelation that he is apparently lying. That might change my mind.

nin.

[ToonyMan]

I think I'm going to look at Bluarian and Web's interactions with each other so far.

[EuchreJack]

I'm not a Paladin. I just claimed to be to see the reactions of what people would do if they weren't able to inspect me.

Vote me for that if you want to, but I am Town, and it was a good warm-up that left valuable information.

I believe NQT is a good elim as either Town or scum, since a Town elim does a lot to clear perfuzek of being scum, and paints big ol' bullseyes on Blu and Jim, and maybe a little bit towards ToonyMan.

My opinion: Town Paladin Web would, after telling prefuzek that they were going to inspect and lie about them being mafia regardless of outcome, then would have free use of the inspect scroll on somebody else.  Since Town Paladin Web doesn't know who is scum.

Now whether Town Paladin Web would lie about being Paladin by saying not Paladin, presumably to later say "Just kidding, actually I am a paladin"?  Probably not, because Web had burned all the paladin cred.  It makes the new information less useful.  But, sadly, it is a strategy I could see Web doing as Town.

The only thing about Web that I'm sure about is that we'll be getting more Paladin/Not-Paladin discussions before the day is over.  More claims/notclaims?  Dunno

[BluarianKnight]

I started looking at Blu and I think it's telling that Blu only ever jumps on existing wagons, sheeping other people's votes. They also threw one softball question to Toony which helps my theory but I know that that's nothing to really build upon.

I would say my Jack vote wasn't jumping on a wagon - I got in late, but I had my own reasons to vote on them without looking to others. You're right that I've been slacking though - let me change that.

OK, I've done an isolated read of both Blu and NQT.

The strangest thing about BluarianKnight's posts is that I've been on every scumteam they've proposed: me+Euchre, me+Tric, me+Toony, and now me+NQT. BK's main reason for voting NQT is that it looks like he's my scumpartner (they also justified it by sheeping FoU's awful case based on word counts of NQT's first reads). So, Blu, why have you never voted me if I'm the common link? Is it harder to make a case for me that you think people will go along with

It's D1 - unless you make a major mistake, it's hard to lay out facts. I started suspecting you here. You called me out for 'echoing' and 'misplay' on Euchrejack on my second post - after this point, I'm your top scumpick, since you put my as scum, alongside voting for me. For two posts - I'd put weight that most people would need more before putting such a hefty vote.After that, me and Web are your lynch-pins - for reasons that honestly, I still don't understand.

EuchreJack: have you been reading my posts?

My reads list hasn't really changed since the only people who've posted substance since then are you, BluarianKnight, webadict, and myself. I'm really waiting on something from Jim, NQT, and Toony.

BluarianKnight: My suspicion of you is not because you think Tric is mafia. It's because you were doing nothing useful while posting just enough to not be lurking, and you justified behaviour by comparing it to games where you were scum. Now, you're hard defending webadict for no apparent reason giving that I'm not voting them, and calling me scum for reasons that make no sense. You say I've buddied to Euchre, but all I've done is say I read him as town a couple of times. I'm not calling Toony out on that because I don't think saying that people are town is scummy. I think you took the idea that I'm buddying Euchre from web - take a look at my posts and tell me where I've buddied. I've actually avoided responding to him quite a bit, since I don't want to fill up the thread with conversation with someone who I have a solid read on already.

Give me a proper read-list. It feels like you've picked two targets and you're ignoring everyone else, which is poor town-game this early on.

I haven't asked questions to half of the player-list yet.

Huh.

Another point - you and Euchre are the only players so far pushing a scum!web this early. The newest players. The thing is, Web has done this shit in the past as town. It's hard to read him traditionally, and I've fallen victim to thinking he's scum when he's doing a bullshit town play. (Reference Election, where town!Web wins because I (a scum player uninformed) thought he was my scum ally.)

Euchre has web as his second most towny player, so I'm not sure where you get this from. I know web plays idiosyncratically. But if you go back and read my case, it's not about his playstyle. It's about concrete decisions he's making that don't make any sense from a town perspective - the town perspective he's encouraged Jack to adopt in this same game.

Your basis seems to be on A) Me defending Web - which is more me trying to teach newer players that Web is fucking crazy, and to adjust - and that I'm 'following the herd'.

That seems to be the largest claim - That I'm not making my own way. Alright, fuck it. - Writing this out, I realize my Pref view is biased on a probable OMGUS reaction, so I'm taking him out of consideration for now - he's voting for me for similar reasons I'm voting for him, and it's poor town play to vote reactively. So let me actually start a new wagon here;

Jim.

You've been sitting back and poking town - but honestly, I'm not seeing you scumhunt or take risks - you sit back when other players take risks.

You're making walls, sure - but a lot of it is fluffy. I don't like it - and you've been sitting back while everyone else is pushing a NQT vote - I think you were building up to push a Pref wagon, but decided to let it simmer while NQT got flak.

You've got a lot of talk, but no bite - nothing risky, nothing pushing town sentiment. Just enough to float by.

Your read-lists are short - a lot of your reasonings are below your walls, each person maybe a sentence or two.

Jim, what's your case on Pref?


FAKEEDIT : And I see by the time it took me to write this, folks are flipping on Web. Huh.

Infolynching on D1 isn't a terrible idea in my eyes - we still have heavy majority.

[webadict]

Web
Do you know what's an even better elimination? Actually hitting scum. That's such a cop out. It doesn't prove shit when I flip town, people who don't think I'm scum you can say were pocketing me and people who do think it you can way were making bad faith cases. C'mon.

Toony, you're right I might overstated-- scum can vote as a bloc. But far and a way the most common thing that I see on any typical day in any typical game is scum sitting back and letting town lynch town.

Tric, there's 8 hours to go, plenty of time for people to pick better votes.

I admitted to lying. That gives you a lot of ammo. TricMagic and ToonyMan are pushing for you to make a case on me. So, make a case on me then. I made a case on you. Your reads are shit, your findings are shit, and your pairings are shit. Kinda makes you look like scum.

I mean, if I get elimmed, I'm Town, so you look like absolute scum, and I will use my dying breath to call for your head. Maybe I'll be right, but with how poorly you look already, you're gonna be elimmed Tomorrow.

I believe NQT is a good elim as either Town or scum, since a Town elim does a lot to clear perfuzek of being scum, and paints big ol' bullseyes on Blu and Jim, and maybe a little bit towards ToonyMan.

Infolynching is bad.

Lmao, yeah, okay, peanut gallery.

I'm not a Paladin. I just claimed to be to see the reactions of what people would do if they weren't able to inspect me.

Vote me for that if you want to, but I am Town, and it was a good warm-up that left valuable information.

I believe NQT is a good elim as either Town or scum, since a Town elim does a lot to clear perfuzek of being scum, and paints big ol' bullseyes on Blu and Jim, and maybe a little bit towards ToonyMan.

This is the type of thing that gets scum-me annoyed at you web. And town-me when I have powers that can help others.

Fair. But, I like lying, especially as Town.

[EuchreJack]

Hmmm feel like the NQT wagon is bad. That means they aren't mafia though...probably at least one mafia on them right now if that's the case.

Toonyman is only scum on a scumteam with NQT.  If NQT is not scum, then Toonyman as scum is making his team's life harder by not letting town lynch an opposing force.

But what if scum Toonyman was just trying to Pocket NQT?  Get NQT to like him by saving NQT from a lynch?

NQT is too smart for that, and would "reward" Toonyman with a nightkill that he either may already have, or could randomly acquire in later days.  If Toonyman was scum, and saved NQT from lynching, NQT is gonna use their first Night Kill on Toonyman.  And Toonyman, I believe, is smart enough to know that.

The only way, I figure, that Toonyman is scum, is if Toonyman is on a scumteam with NQT.

[Toaster]

Do you mean EDT, Toaster?

Yes, sorry.  Eight hours from this post.

[ToonyMan]

Hmmm feel like the NQT wagon is bad. That means they aren't mafia though...probably at least one mafia on them right now if that's the case.

Toonyman is only scum on a scumteam with NQT.  If NQT is not scum, then Toonyman as scum is making his team's life harder by not letting town lynch an opposing force.

But what if scum Toonyman was just trying to Pocket NQT?  Get NQT to like him by saving NQT from a lynch?

NQT is too smart for that, and would "reward" Toonyman with a nightkill that he either may already have, or could randomly acquire in later days.  If Toonyman was scum, and saved NQT from lynching, NQT is gonna use their first Night Kill on Toonyman.  And Toonyman, I believe, is smart enough to know that.

The only way, I figure, that Toonyman is scum, is if Toonyman is on a scumteam with NQT.

Are you saying town!NQT would kill mafia!Toony for pocketing him?

[BluarianKnight]

I started looking at Blu and I think it's telling that Blu only ever jumps on existing wagons, sheeping other people's votes. They also threw one softball question to Toony which helps my theory but I know that that's nothing to really build upon.

I would say my Jack vote wasn't jumping on a wagon - I got in late, but I had my own reasons to vote on them without looking to others. You're right that I've been slacking though - let me change that.

OK, I've done an isolated read of both Blu and NQT.

The strangest thing about BluarianKnight's posts is that I've been on every scumteam they've proposed: me+Euchre, me+Tric, me+Toony, and now me+NQT. BK's main reason for voting NQT is that it looks like he's my scumpartner (they also justified it by sheeping FoU's awful case based on word counts of NQT's first reads). So, Blu, why have you never voted me if I'm the common link? Is it harder to make a case for me that you think people will go along with

It's D1 - unless you make a major mistake, it's hard to lay out facts. I started suspecting you here. You called me out for 'echoing' and 'misplay' on Euchrejack on my second post - after this point, I'm your top scumpick, since you put my as scum, alongside voting for me. For two posts - I'd put weight that most people would need more before putting such a hefty vote.After that, me and Web are your lynch-pins - for reasons that honestly, I still don't understand.

EuchreJack: have you been reading my posts?

My reads list hasn't really changed since the only people who've posted substance since then are you, BluarianKnight, webadict, and myself. I'm really waiting on something from Jim, NQT, and Toony.

BluarianKnight: My suspicion of you is not because you think Tric is mafia. It's because you were doing nothing useful while posting just enough to not be lurking, and you justified behaviour by comparing it to games where you were scum. Now, you're hard defending webadict for no apparent reason giving that I'm not voting them, and calling me scum for reasons that make no sense. You say I've buddied to Euchre, but all I've done is say I read him as town a couple of times. I'm not calling Toony out on that because I don't think saying that people are town is scummy. I think you took the idea that I'm buddying Euchre from web - take a look at my posts and tell me where I've buddied. I've actually avoided responding to him quite a bit, since I don't want to fill up the thread with conversation with someone who I have a solid read on already.

Give me a proper read-list. It feels like you've picked two targets and you're ignoring everyone else, which is poor town-game this early on.

I haven't asked questions to half of the player-list yet.

Huh.

Another point - you and Euchre are the only players so far pushing a scum!web this early. The newest players. The thing is, Web has done this shit in the past as town. It's hard to read him traditionally, and I've fallen victim to thinking he's scum when he's doing a bullshit town play. (Reference Election, where town!Web wins because I (a scum player uninformed) thought he was my scum ally.)

Euchre has web as his second most towny player, so I'm not sure where you get this from. I know web plays idiosyncratically. But if you go back and read my case, it's not about his playstyle. It's about concrete decisions he's making that don't make any sense from a town perspective - the town perspective he's encouraged Jack to adopt in this same game.

Your basis seems to be on A) Me defending Web - which is more me trying to teach newer players that Web is fucking crazy, and to adjust - and that I'm 'following the herd'.

That seems to be the largest claim - That I'm not making my own way. Alright, fuck it. - Writing this out, I realize my Pref view is biased on a probable OMGUS reaction, so I'm taking him out of consideration for now - he's voting for me for similar reasons I'm voting for him, and it's poor town play to vote reactively. So let me actually start a new wagon here;

Jim.

You've been sitting back and poking town - but honestly, I'm not seeing you scumhunt or take risks - you sit back when other players take risks.

You're making walls, sure - but a lot of it is fluffy. I don't like it - and you've been sitting back while everyone else is pushing a NQT vote - I think you were building up to push a Pref wagon, but decided to let it simmer while NQT got flak.

You've got a lot of talk, but no bite - nothing risky, nothing pushing town sentiment. Just enough to float by.

Your read-lists are short - a lot of your reasonings are below your walls, each person maybe a sentence or two.

Jim, what's your case on Pref?


FAKEEDIT : And I see by the time it took me to write this, folks are flipping on Web. Huh.

Infolynching on D1 isn't a terrible idea in my eyes - we still have heavy majority.

EDIT because I fucked it up and put most of my argument in a quote

[notquitethere]

Looking At My Suspects #1 - Webadict

I'm currently voting webadict because I can't get a handle on their play. Let me walk you through.

Web himself put it best:

Why are you doing this?

I don't actually mind shenanigans, but some of yours have no intended purpose behind them, and lulnanigans are sorta anti-Town.

But what is this but lulnanigans?

Oh, and I'll take this time to say I'm a Paladin, so inspects are useless on me.

prefuzek, I'm going to let you in on a little secret: I'm going to inspect you and claim I got Mafia regardless of what I actually get.

I want you to realize that I am crazy enough to actually do that.

No, it wasn't a joke, I am going to lie about my results.

I lied about being a Paladin.

Web might say this:

I play this game like it's poker.

And I believe him. He wants to keep his opponents guessing about what he really is. That's great! I sometimes lie as town too. But this threatening and posturing isn't purposeful, it just casts doubt over any claims he might make in future days.

Looking back over Web's posts, there's a lot of genuinely good stuff to like. I don't really understand their vote on me though, it's just following Tric into the land of inventing team compositions when 1. I'm not actually scum (I can forgive town for not knowing that yet) and 2. those team compositions are presented as if there were reasons to vote someone (unforgivable on D1 with no flips, pure smoke and mirrors bullshit).

[ToonyMan]

@Bluarian:
I've looked over your posts.

Jim is right that you've defended Web this whole game, why? Jack has played with Web before, Perf is familiar with Web. Neither of them "needs teaching".

[notquitethere]

Looking At My Suspects #2 - Toony

The thing about Toony is he's been activelurking and he knows he's been activelurking.

So the first hint of anything resembling scum hunting from Toony came immediately after I prodded him for activity and it's just a sheep:

Let's go with TricMagic. Jim is never wrong.

This D1 has been remarkable for all the sheep voting, as this never used to be part of Bay12 meta (but it's normal elsewhere).

He keeps doing this thing where he acknowledges he looks terrible, as if by hanging a lampshade on it absolves him of doing things:

Tric is townreading me wtf???

@TricMagic:
Why are you still townreading me? I don't get it at all. A lot of players are suspicious of me.

Dude you're driving me crazy, why are you town reading me? You can post walls of text for Jack, but won't answer me.

He insists I'm town even though I've been activelurking the entire game so far.

It's borderline coaching Tric:

Tric, why are you voting with FoU onto NQT?

From your POV you're voting with a player you think is mafia.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate all of Toony's content:

Hmmm feel like the NQT wagon is bad. That means they aren't mafia though...probably at least one mafia on them right now if that's the case.

But it's easy to say absolutely correct stuff like this as scum, in fact, being a Cassandra about an upcoming mislynch is definitely somewhere in the basic mafia playbook. I've done it myself several times.

The best I can say is that if this is town!Toony, he might need a bit of a runup for this game; his actual content and game sense and questions seem to be increasing in frequency and quality as the day goes on. This is all very promising and why I don't want to launch him today. His last dozen posts have been much better than his first dozen (empty) posts, and that's a trend I can be happy to see.

[notquitethere]

EDIT because I fucked it up and put most of my argument in a quote

You put it in another quote again! If you want that vote on Jim to do anything, post properly. The preview button is your friend.

[notquitethere]

Looking At My Suspects #3 - BluarianKnight

The deal with Blu is that he's a bit lazy.

You're right that I've been slacking

Looking back over D1, his first vote is fine, so far as it goes. Jack really was acting bizarrely so can't fault that too much:

EuchreJack - the fuck are you doing?

We can sympathetically say it's not an OMGUS just because Euchre voted Blu first, but still, it's not an EOD-quality vote or anything. There are little hints that Blu is maybe not quite on the level:

Tric pointed out three mafia - it's a two mafia game.

It's most probably a two mafia game but we don't know 100%, the OP doesn't state it; this could be TMI from Blu.

Then he's 4th on the Tric-wagon with a weak angle:

TricMagic: Jim Groovester, ToonyMan, webadict

Anyhow, TricMagic  - Who do you think are scum, currently?

This doesn't come from nowhere, there's a build up of suspicion beforehand. A day later, prompted by a question from me he backs of entirely:

What do you think of Tric's replies?

I think Tric's a little less scummy each post he makes - at first I thought it was him being coached, but.. honestly, he does have precedence of this sort of play as town.
My main suspicion is built off him playing way off his usual town!tells.. which, at the end of the day, is kind of shitty to do if he's improving, or trying not to get lynched for his play as town.

I'm going to UNVOTE him for now, because I'd like to dig through the thread for a solid base before hounding him, and if I can't find one.. he'll be pushed to null in my books.

Even going so far as to pre-emptively call Tric null. Flash in the pan. Then the next thing we see, he sheeps Tric and Euchre's case on me:

Web, right now I find NQT to be a centerpin. Do you know if he'd coach from the back as scum? From this, I can conclude three options. Option A, the bold one, Prefuzek.

Nah - I'm honestly feeling NQT as scum, with Prez as his partner.

And despite recognising that Jack's SK attack is patently absurd in it overconfidence in believing such an unlikely thing for a 9 player game:

Fine, fine, let's kill the SK first.  For all we know, NQT could be something truly awful, like a poisoner, an arsonist, or something else that gets worse with time.

Why do you think NQT is a SK?

Obviously this all sits worse with me as I'm the recipient of his pile-on play this time. So nothing overwhelmingly bad, but nothing overwhelmingly good either. I was about to call it at that but Blu has literally just popped in with a good post.

Jim... You've been sitting back and poking town - but honestly, I'm not seeing you scumhunt or take risks - you sit back when other players take risks.

Now this is what I like to see! Bold direction, a fresh reconsideration. I like it, and in that same spirit, I'll take another look back at Jim myself.

[Jim Groovester]

PPE: Jim, yeah I'm vacillating on Web, I genuinely can't make up my mind about the best way to approach his weird play. What do you think about the claim/threat/retraction?

I don't think much of it and never have. I'm more interested in people's reactions to it, especially all the players who said they would vote webadict if he weren't a Paladin, only to find that for most of them, save yourself, it was talk.

Jim: Do you believe that webadict is actually not a paladin? Because I don't.

I really don't care whether he is or not.

Jim.

You've been sitting back and poking town - but honestly, I'm not seeing you scumhunt or take risks - you sit back when other players take risks.

You're making walls, sure - but a lot of it is fluffy. I don't like it - and you've been sitting back while everyone else is pushing a NQT vote - I think you were building up to push a Pref wagon, but decided to let it simmer while NQT got flak.

You've got a lot of talk, but no bite - nothing risky, nothing pushing town sentiment. Just enough to float by.

Your read-lists are short - a lot of your reasonings are below your walls, each person maybe a sentence or two.

So what, concisely, are you voting me for? Because it looks like you're voting me for not having the presence I had earlier in the day.

Jim, what's your case on Pref?

Being cautious, risk-averse scum. Saying he would vote webadict if he weren't a Paladin, and then not doing that is what bothered me the most about him.



Where am I at today going into the deadline.

EuchreJack - Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep. Would jump off a cliff if a player the majority of the game considered town told him it was the right Day 1 play.
notquitethere - Weaker presence earlier in the day. Stronger presence later in the day, but mostly to turn the bandwagon off of him at the end of the day. Voting webadict after being challenged to but I'm not clear on what exactly he finds suspicious about webadict aside from being bothered by bluffs and ploys. Self-preservation is typical for NQT for both town and scum so I don't care that he's doing that.
TricMagic - Is TricMagic. Feels like a slightly more competent version of town TricMagic.
prefuzek - Play reminds me a lot of what cautious, risk-averse scum would do. Should have voted webadict when he said he suspected him earlier in the day instead of dodging it.
BluarianKnight - Has been on every bandwagon as the game developed. Jumped off the NQT bandwagon to vote me alleging a lack of presence.
webadict - Admitted his lie about being paladin to bait his suspects into voting him. It might work? Appears to be making genuine efforts to solve the game.
FallacyofUrist - Has sat on their NQT READS BAD case for the duration of the game. Has added NQT DEFENDING HIMSELF BAD to his NQT case. Has literally just been tunneling all day on NQT.
ToonyMan - Weak, unenergetic presence early in Day 1. More to form later in Day 1.

My prefuzek vote isn't doing anything. I would vote FallacyofUrist for doing literally nothing except tunneling notquitethere all day long with a mediocre case but that would be trading one do nothing vote for another. This leaves BluearianKnight as the strongest read I have that might gain actual traction.

Going to do a bit more digging before the end of the day though; most of this was from memory and wasn't from a study of the game so far.