Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Rose]

I'm not sure 'actual RPG player' would be the right word to use.

[tHe_silent_H]

I have noticed something.

most people who enjoy Skyrim, did not like morrowind or oblivion as much.
most people who did not like Skyrim, liked oblivion or morrowind alot.

I think Bethesda is leaving behind the 'actual' RPG players, in favor of a bigger, more casual audience.

I quite liked all of them, but that my friends, is known as "fanboy-ism"

[fqllve]

Why does non-RPG player automatically equate with casual? There are all kinds of genres of games and playing RPGs doesn't necessarily make you any more serious a gamer than anyone else, except for maybe people who play stuff like Brain Age and Bejeweled, but even then, there are some people who are hardcore about Bejeweled. And just because someone is a serious fan of RPGs doesn't mean they don't also enjoy other genres. Being an RPG player and an FPS player aren't mutually exclusive.

Furthermore, I don't think the TES games have ever really excelled as RPGs beyond the admittedly awesome skill system. Oblivion certainly wasn't a good RPG because it took nearly every RPG element from the previous games and threw them out for a more action/sandbox oriented experience which to me seems to fit better than the awkward hybrid system they had going before. And beyond that, it's always been especially hard to roleplay in Elder Scrolls games. Personally, I like to craft elaborate backstories for my characters and give them complex personalities, but playing those out in an Elder Scrolls game is difficult because there aren't many choices beyond which quests to take and how to murder this particular enemy. Admittedly Morrowind and especially Daggerfall were better at it but I always found it hard to think of my character as a separate entity rather than just an avatar for myself.

And frankly, beyond the Shivering Isles I really don't get why anyone would prefer Oblivion to Skyrim, the world was bland, the dungeons were cut and pasted, it had that awkward meta-gaming level system that was completely counter-intuitive to the concept of roleplaying, the voice acting and dialogue were even worse (I mean, come on, what the hell did they do to Patrick Stewart?), and melee combat was 99% backpedaling, destruction was ridiculously overpowered to the same extent that its underpowered in Skyrim, and the world leveling system was more prevalent and could completely ruin an inexperienced player's character.

Skyrim isn't perfect, or even amazing, but it's certainly a polishing of the ideas that Bethsoft was going for in Oblivion. To me, Oblivion is like an awkward adolescent, halfway between Morrowind and Skyrim and encompassing many of the worst parts of both games and lacking the sharpness of the things that the other two do well.

[Rex_Nex]

I just couldn't get into Skyrim for more then a couple hours. Its a better game then Oblivion; I can tell its a better game. But I cant do it. I played the shit out of Oblivion (No mods, no DLC, nothing), and when I started Skyrim I cant help but say "I don't want to do this again". I don't think Skyrim deviated enough from Oblivion to give me an excuse to play through it.

The storyline is still terrible, the animation isn't much better, and the writing needs serious work. The textures weren't much better, the shaders were overused, and the "wow" of leaving the Sewers from Oblivion or the Vault for Fallout 3 was completely gone. You didn't get that sense of scale in Skyrim. When Oblivion came out, those graphics were really damn good compared to other games that came out around that time. Skyrim... it's on par, sure, but it wasn't something I'd brag about. They haven't really improved anything but the character models since Oblivion; Fallout had this problem too.

Also, the sounds. I hate some of the most common sounds in Skyrim. Like the slashing and cutting sounds. Dear god bethesda, record something more fake please?

That said, it is a better game, it just is something I've already played once and I'd rather not do it again.

[Gamerlord]

I don't think Bethesda recorded enough sounds for the Player Character. It is really irritating to have my massive Nord blacksmith/warrior sounding like a woman every other time he does a power attack.

[Sordid]

I disagree, I think the graphics in Skyrim are actually quite excellent. I really love the aesthetic feel of it, the running water everywhere (which IMO really brings the landscape alive), the mist around the base of the mountains, the little wisps of windswept snow at the tops of snowdrifts. The muted colors really help too. Compared to Oblivion's unrelenting sea of oversaturated radioactive green it's lightyears ahead.

What bothers me is the gameplay mechanics. The combat is pretty poor, for one thing. It's fast, but not in a good way. NPCs just run around randomly like gerbils on speed. And it's been that way ever since Morrowind too. Come on, Bethsoft. Then there's the fact that every little thing is physics enabled, which to an OCD hoarder like me is a total disaster, because I can't arrange my collection of rare artifacts on my shelves anymore without knocking everything else on the floor. The idiotic left hand - right hand control scheme... Need I go on?

[forsaken1111]

I have noticed something.

most people who enjoy Skyrim, did not like morrowind or oblivion as much.
most people who did not like Skyrim, liked oblivion or morrowind alot.

I think Bethesda is leaving behind the 'actual' RPG players, in favor of a bigger, more casual audience.

Nice. With once sentence you generalized an entire section of gamers because they liked a game. Just because people like a game with more focus on actual gameplay and less on numbers and statistics doesn't mean they are 'casual' gamers. I'm not saying Skyrim's system was the best but it is a damn sight better than the ridiculous leveling system of Oblivion/Morrowind. I like to play however I want, not be forced to grind specific skills and hold off leveling just so I can get the best boost. If you didn't grind skills for that +5 attribute gain you were literally harming your character because everything else leveled up around you.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Skyrim is chock full of real, tangible gameplay. Not like Morrowind, no sir. Using stats to detemine growth [and therefore give a sense of, let's see, progression and completion upon said +1] and not letting players be a jack-of-all-trades off the bat is so old school. I want fights! And action!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Nice. With once sentence you generalized an entire section of gamers because they liked a game. Just because people like a game with more focus on actual gameplay and less on numbers and statistics doesn't mean they are 'casual' gamers. I'm not saying Skyrim's system was the best but it is a damn sight better than the ridiculous leveling system of Oblivion/Morrowind. I like to play however I want, not be forced to grind specific skills and hold off leveling just so I can get the best boost. If you didn't grind skills for that +5 attribute gain you were literally harming your character because everything else leveled up around you.

lol

At this rate I can't see TES6 straying from...

The next elder scrolls will start (as a prisoner of course!) in a round room with a teleporter and a chest. The chest will have all weapons/items/magic gainable, whilst the teleporter goes to the final boss. It will be called 'Fuck it, we don't care anymore'

But it will have dynamic air.

[Mech#4]

I think the leveling system in Morrowind and Oblivion worked better with the combat and mechanics from Daggerfall. It still kind of worked in Morrowind since you tended to swing a lot more in combat due to missing so often, also spells could fail and so could alchemy, this made repetition more common, so I was more open to the idea of training skills.
In Oblivion, magic works all the time (Unless you lack enough magicka), so does alchemy (when the ingredients are right) and you always hit in combat when you target an enemy. Having no need to repeat an action meant I only used those abilities when I needed to (generally in combat), and when I needed to I found they weren't leveled enough to be of much use.

There's a lot of little things I do as a player in Morrowind that aren't within the realms of roleplaying that are done simply to train skills. Casting spells over and over than sleeping, buying ingredients to make Fortify Intelligent potions through alchemy, jumping everywhere since it was faster than running, sticking to using Sunder regardless of what my character previously used due to the huge damage and 20pt boost to blunt weapons skill.
I did that at the time, but I really don't play Morrowind all the way through again because I don't want to have to do all that again, so I usually cheat, which makes me lose interest in the character.

Oblivion, hmm... Because skills don't fail, there's no real reason to train them like in Morrowind, and that is an improvement, but you still need to train them to gain the perk benefits, but since they don't fail there's not as much motivation.

I'm just going around and around in circles now. Blech.

[forsaken1111]

Skyrim is chock full of real, tangible gameplay. Not like Morrowind, no sir. Using stats to detemine growth [and therefore give a sense of, let's see, progression and completion upon said +1] and not letting players be a jack-of-all-trades off the bat is so old school. I want fights! And action!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Nice. With once sentence you generalized an entire section of gamers because they liked a game. Just because people like a game with more focus on actual gameplay and less on numbers and statistics doesn't mean they are 'casual' gamers. I'm not saying Skyrim's system was the best but it is a damn sight better than the ridiculous leveling system of Oblivion/Morrowind. I like to play however I want, not be forced to grind specific skills and hold off leveling just so I can get the best boost. If you didn't grind skills for that +5 attribute gain you were literally harming your character because everything else leveled up around you.

lol

At this rate I can't see TES6 straying from...

The next elder scrolls will start (as a prisoner of course!) in a round room with a teleporter and a chest. The chest will have all weapons/items/magic gainable, whilst the teleporter goes to the final boss. It will be called 'Fuck it, we don't care anymore'

But it will have dynamic air.

So only games with a focus on numbers and stats are real RPG's with any sort of real gameplay? Man here I was thinking that an RPG was supposed to be focused on plot and an enjoyable story in which you immerse yourself, not staring at numbers and figuring out whether you've jumped quite enough to get that +5 to strength if you finally decide to sleep and level up.

[Virtz]

Skyrim is chock full of real, tangible gameplay. Not like Morrowind, no sir. Using stats to detemine growth [and therefore give a sense of, let's see, progression and completion upon said +1] and not letting players be a jack-of-all-trades off the bat is so old school. I want fights! And action!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Nice. With once sentence you generalized an entire section of gamers because they liked a game. Just because people like a game with more focus on actual gameplay and less on numbers and statistics doesn't mean they are 'casual' gamers. I'm not saying Skyrim's system was the best but it is a damn sight better than the ridiculous leveling system of Oblivion/Morrowind. I like to play however I want, not be forced to grind specific skills and hold off leveling just so I can get the best boost. If you didn't grind skills for that +5 attribute gain you were literally harming your character because everything else leveled up around you.

lol

At this rate I can't see TES6 straying from...

The next elder scrolls will start (as a prisoner of course!) in a round room with a teleporter and a chest. The chest will have all weapons/items/magic gainable, whilst the teleporter goes to the final boss. It will be called 'Fuck it, we don't care anymore'

But it will have dynamic air.

So only games with a focus on numbers and stats are real RPG's with any sort of real gameplay? Man here I was thinking that an RPG was supposed to be focused on plot and an enjoyable story in which you immerse yourself, not staring at numbers and figuring out whether you've jumped quite enough to get that +5 to strength if you finally decide to sleep and level up.

And here I was thinking Adventure games are about adventures and War games are about war in any sense of the word. But then I learned just having stuff from the name of the genre in the game doesn't make it of that genre.

Plot and "immersion" have nothing to do with any genre. Just because you play the role of Master Chief in Halo and that it's got a plot doesn't make Halo an RPG. Adventure games tend to focus way more on the plot than RPGs usually do. But that ain't what defines them either.

[zehive]

When I played Oblivion I got hours and hours of fun. When I played Skyrim everything seemed simple, easy, unrewarding, like I had only one option the entire time and overall it left the stale taste of 'Call of Duty' in my mouth.


I want engaging gameplay. I spent my time in Oblivion with my pirate cutlass I stole, enchanted with a sigil stone and named 'AMERICA'. I stealthed around and the shock effect caused my enemies to fly in amusing ways, referred to as soggy dickifying them. I usually used a bow and enjoyed challenging myself in the Dark Brotherhood quests for maximum stealth and completion of contracts to the letter, and the same with the Theives Guild, then raid ruins and caves, fought loads of different enemies in each in interesting complexes... I never even finished the main story. But Skyrim... it just tries so hard to engage you that it turns me off, theres no room to it, theres no variable options, theres only a handful of quests as fun as the ones from Oblivion, going tomb raiding is massively dull with everything being 'drauger' or 'bandit' and caves with bears or trolls just feel like theyre thrown in for novelties sake.

In Skyrim I just don't enjoy it as much as I enjoyed Oblivion, I was just let down. I was expecting better quality from the quests specifically since thats our main interaction with the world, and they just felt streamlined and unrewarding.

[Soadreqm]

The next elder scrolls will start (as a prisoner of course!) in a round room with a teleporter and a chest. The chest will have all weapons/items/magic gainable, whilst the teleporter goes to the final boss. It will be called 'Fuck it, we don't care anymore'

But it will have dynamic air.

Actually, that was Morrowind. You can just go pick up the plot coupons and walk to the final boss and finish the game in under four and a half minutes. >:]

[Leatra]

I have noticed something.

most people who enjoy Skyrim, did not like morrowind or oblivion as much.
most people who did not like Skyrim, liked oblivion or morrowind alot.

I think Bethesda is leaving behind the 'actual' RPG players, in favor of a bigger, more casual audience.

That's definitely the case. Bethesda had to have a fanbase like CoD's. You can't make money if you don't have a big fanbase. Look at CoD, same old shit with a different story.

I know I'm gonna get flamed for saying it, but I liked Oblivion more. Skyrim looks like an improvment from Oblivion but I just can't get the feeling I got with Oblivion. Maybe it's because the difference between Oblivion and Skyrim isn't as much as difference between Morrowind and Oblivion.

I seriously think half of the skills will be scrapped from the next game. People don't like skills and leveling up anymore. It's an old thing. Players want more action and more graphics. Nobody wants to think while playing a game. Also, PC version will probably come later than the console version. It's a good selling tactic nowadays.

I see Skyrim more of an adventure-action game than a RPG. "actual gameplay and less on numbers and statistics" doesn't mean it's a casual game. Less gameplay, more graphics, less thinking, more action, more mainstream stuff, less hardcore stuff, chaing the game to appease the casual gamers... This is why people think it's getting casual.

[SomethingCreative]

Bethesda had to have a fanbase like CoD's. You can't make money if you don't have a big fanbase.

changing the game to appease the casual gamers... This is why people think it's getting casual.

This absolutely boggles my mind.

Actual "casuals" will never be interested in the Elderscrolls series. To some of us, Skyrim comes across as trying to be too casual. To a casual, Skyrim just isn't casual enough.

Casuals will only ever account for a minority of the sales when it comes to an Elderscrolls title. It just doesn't make sense for Beth to try and appeal to a consumer base that they will never have. It doesn't help that the Elderscrolls series is already being sold to what I consider a niche market.

If Beth really wanted the "CoD casual consumer" they would drop the Elderscrolls series entirely and release Fallout 4 as a post-apocalyptic themed multiplayer FPS with a linear-rails-shooter story mode that lasts all of four or so hours.

I'm in the opinion that that they aren't dumbing down the Elderscrolls because of casuals, no sir.

They're dumbing it down because dumb games are cheaper/easier to produce and the fanbase they already have don't have a lot of other options when it comes to open world medieval fantasy games.

What Beth really needs is a stiff competitor that would force them to shape up or go bankrupt.