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Author Topic: American Election Megathread - It's Over  (Read 717475 times)

penguinofhonor

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3915 on: July 04, 2012, 08:00:24 pm »

I think marihuana is a correct alternate spelling.
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Aqizzar

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3916 on: July 04, 2012, 08:05:18 pm »

Duuvian's thoughts: Snyder has really surprised me. He has not only been competent (see Canada and the Feds paying for most of a new Detroit bridge) but he is willing to veto things from his own party at some if not great political risk to himself. In addition his city manager program is at worst quietly bad as I haven't heard much that worried me enough that I felt I would have to get involved and more informed, which I admittedly am not on that issue. If more interested parties have done research on that I wouldn't mind hearing about it. Finally Gov. Snyder did some things to streamline the process of gaining a Michigan Medical Marihuana card. Basically the organization in charge of issueing cards had too few employees to handle all the applications and there was a backlog of 6months to a year to receive your (yearly renewed) card. Gov. Snyder stepped in and changed who handled applications which sped up the process greatly.

I will admit that I haven't really kept up on what else he's done as governor, but for me, the new Emergency Manager powers are a deal breaker regardless.  Towns are getting ready to disappear from the map, Detroit may not have a public school system next year, and the Pontiac Silver Dome was sold for less than half a million dollars to a Canadian investor who then hired the Manager who brokered the deal and that's perfectly legal in Snyder's world.

That said, I am genuinely surprised that he would be the first Republican governor to veto a new voting restriction, especially considering what a vociferous opposition he's spawned.  That seems to be the plan everywhere else in the state, pass a bunch of crazy laws then make it harder for people to vote, but maybe he turned magnanimous all of sudden.  Or smug, who knows.
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Mictlantecuhtli

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3917 on: July 04, 2012, 08:07:40 pm »

I don't understand who the hell Snyder is trying to appeal to at this point.
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Duuvian

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3918 on: July 04, 2012, 08:34:22 pm »

I'd like to think he has some conscience. Perhaps his strategy is to appeal to moderates; whether it's a sound strategy or not I suppose it's worth a try and it's better morally in my opinion than to appeal only/mostly to what some politicians call their 'base'. I suppose I should learn who his opposition is before I make a final decision, and also consider potential lame-duck issues.

Also yes, the city manager scheme is the biggest stumbling block for me about Snyder. Hearing things like the stadium sale really doesn't change my mind. If he were to promise some reform regarding oversight and regulation (especially concerning policy all decisions that benefit the manager's or his affiliate's personal financials); then I and likely others would be willing to consider modifying our position on that matter.

EDIT: Another thing that needs to be remedied to sway my opinion, no matter how much or little Snyder had to do with it originally or at any other time:

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Bobb


Emergency financial manager

In March 2009, Michigan governor Jennifer Granholm appointed Bobb as emergency financial manager for the Detroit Public Schools, which at the time had 172 schools, 85,000 students,[14] and a deficit of $219 million.[15] At the end of Bobb's first year as financial manager, the deficit had increased to $363 million, according to budget documents released by the school district in June 2010.[15]

Bobb said he took on the job because Detroit had the "roughest and the toughest" urban schools and because he understood "the dynamics, the grit, the opportunities that are prevalent in urban America."[2] In addition to his management of the schools' finances, he created master plans for education reforms including standards required to pass to the next grade level, and offered plans for facilities improvement and community involvement.[2][14] He used $500 million in federal stimulus money to improve facilities and led a successful enrollment drive resulting in 900 more students than projected.[14] He called for 2,600 volunteers to donate 180 hours each to help students learn to read.[2]

His tenure as emergency manager was beset with controversies related to school closings, job cuts, and the elimination and outsourcing of school services.[5] During his first ten months on the job he closed 29 schools and hired outside consultants to improve 17 schools.[2] When it appeared that consolidation of high schools and large class sizes could cause tension and violence, he rehired 137 guidance counselors he had laid off, and rehired 20 piano teachers so that music education could continue.[2]

Bobb is paid an annual salary of $280,000 by the government and $145,000 by the Kellogg Foundation and the Broad Foundation, a national promoter of school choice and privatization.[4] Bobb is also the owner, president and CEO of the LAPA Group, LLC, a private/public sector consulting firm.[5]

His appointment was to expire on March 1, 2011.[5] At that time, he was given expanded powers by the state legislature, including the powers to modify contracts, terminate collective bargaining agreements with teachers and fire elected officials.[4][16] He has said he intends to use these powers,[16] and has issued layoff notices to all of the teachers in the school system,[17] which will give him or other managers the power to call back or reassign teachers without having to consider seniority rights.[18] Bobb is also proposing that as many as 41 Detroit Public Schools that he has scheduled for closure be turned instead into privatized charter schools.[4]
« Last Edit: July 04, 2012, 09:07:51 pm by Duuvian »
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Sort of finished and awaiting remix due to loss of most recent song file before addition of drums:
https://www.box.com/s/s3oba05kh8mfi3sorjm0 <-zguit

Mego

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3919 on: July 04, 2012, 09:21:59 pm »

I risked giving a quick peek at this thread (after a long absence in b12) expecting lame battles full of partisanship only to find interesting information and calm arguments.

(+) Will read again. 

It also makes me reflect on the pros and cons of comment systems where people (silent majorities/moderators?) influence the order and practical visibility.

I guess small numbers (controllable), accountability and reputation concern might be an important factor for the success of a debate.

Oh hey you.

Yeah, this thread has had a few flare-ups, but nothing too severe. It's really kind of amazing. I think we're all fearful of the wrath of the Toad.

Zangi

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3920 on: July 04, 2012, 10:49:03 pm »

I risked giving a quick peek at this thread (after a long absence in b12) expecting lame battles full of partisanship only to find interesting information and calm arguments.

(+) Will read again. 

It also makes me reflect on the pros and cons of comment systems where people (silent majorities/moderators?) influence the order and practical visibility.

I guess small numbers (controllable), accountability and reputation concern might be an important factor for the success of a debate.

Oh hey you.

Yeah, this thread has had a few flare-ups, but nothing too severe. It's really kind of amazing. I think we're all fearful of the wrath of the Toad.

Fear?  For some maybe... I for one respect the Toad and rather he not be forced to take time out to moderate.
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Zrk2

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3921 on: July 05, 2012, 12:05:47 am »


Emergency financial manager

In March 2009, Michigan governor Jennifer Granholm appointed Bobb as emergency financial manager for the Detroit Public Schools, which at the time had 172 schools, 85,000 students,[14] and a deficit of $219 million.[15] At the end of Bobb's first year as financial manager, the deficit had increased to $363 million, according to budget documents released by the school district in June 2010.[15]

Bobb said he took on the job because Detroit had the "roughest and the toughest" urban schools and because he understood "the dynamics, the grit, the opportunities that are prevalent in urban America."[2] In addition to his management of the schools' finances, he created master plans for education reforms including standards required to pass to the next grade level, and offered plans for facilities improvement and community involvement.[2][14] He used $500 million in federal stimulus money to improve facilities and led a successful enrollment drive resulting in 900 more students than projected.[14] He called for 2,600 volunteers to donate 180 hours each to help students learn to read.[2]

His tenure as emergency manager was beset with controversies related to school closings, job cuts, and the elimination and outsourcing of school services.[5] During his first ten months on the job he closed 29 schools and hired outside consultants to improve 17 schools.[2] When it appeared that consolidation of high schools and large class sizes could cause tension and violence, he rehired 137 guidance counselors he had laid off, and rehired 20 piano teachers so that music education could continue.[2]

Bobb is paid an annual salary of $280,000 by the government and $145,000 by the Kellogg Foundation and the Broad Foundation, a national promoter of school choice and privatization.[4] Bobb is also the owner, president and CEO of the LAPA Group, LLC, a private/public sector consulting firm.[5]

His appointment was to expire on March 1, 2011.[5] At that time, he was given expanded powers by the state legislature, including the powers to modify contracts, terminate collective bargaining agreements with teachers and fire elected officials.[4][16] He has said he intends to use these powers,[16] and has issued layoff notices to all of the teachers in the school system,[17] which will give him or other managers the power to call back or reassign teachers without having to consider seniority rights.[18] Bobb is also proposing that as many as 41 Detroit Public Schools that he has scheduled for closure be turned instead into privatized charter schools.[4]

And all this time I thought America wasn't a total hell and it was just propaganda. Nope, we've abolished the rule of democracy in favour of cronyism and the sickest form of imperialism I've ever seen. It's one thing to be a total shit and fuck over other countries to better your own, but it's quite another to fuck over your whole country for some corporations.

Holy shit I might have just become a Democrat.

PS. If I sound incoherent it's because I'm up too late dicking around on the internet again.
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MaximumZero

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3922 on: July 05, 2012, 12:14:33 am »

It's only in one state. It just so happens to be the state I live in, but...yeah. I'm waiting for the riots to come to my hometown.
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RedKing

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3923 on: July 05, 2012, 08:53:12 am »

I don't understand who the hell Snyder is trying to appeal to at this point.
The lizard people who live in Detroit's sewers (i.e. "the nice part of town"). After all, lizard people are people too. Who are lizards.


In national election news, Ann Romney is stoking interest in the VP selection by saying that Team Romney is looking at the possibility of a female candidate. Which immediately brings up a handful of candidates, most of whom the Democrats would LOVE to see on the ticket:

Sarah Palin (do we really need to explain why Caribou Barbie II would be Obama's dream ticket to run against?)
Michelle Bachmann (Sarah Palin minus the glasses)
Jan Brewer (not telegenic, and if Romney thought he had a problem with the Latino vote *before*...)
Nikki Haley (this would actually be an incredibly shrewd pick, but Haley's already on the record stating she wouldn't accept)
Ann Coulter (she *was* one of his loudest supporters during the GOP knife fight during the primary...but she's also incredibly shrill and toxic)
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Zangi

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3924 on: July 05, 2012, 09:08:41 am »

Oh jah... google search of Ann Coulter and you see the books under her profile at the right... just read the titles.
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kaijyuu

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3925 on: July 05, 2012, 09:11:34 am »

Also telling is the covers. 3 of the ones google showed me sexualize her.
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Jervill

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3926 on: July 05, 2012, 09:19:22 am »

He won't pick Bachmann, she's completely toxic.  She is absolutely despised here in Minnesota, the only reason she wins in her district is that it's the most Republican in the state (Obama received 45% of the vote under the old lines, 43% under the new.)

All those picks, except Haley, are absolutely terrible, strategically.  Who's next, Virginia Foxx?
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RedKing

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3927 on: July 05, 2012, 10:14:29 am »

ABC lists a few more less-well-known options:

-Kelly Ayotte, senator from New Hampshire. Problem there is you have a ticket which hails exclusively from the Northeast. That's a tough sell to a party whose base is primarily in the Mountain West, Midwest and South.

-Mary Fallin, governor of Oklahoma. Not a lot of national presence, but popular in OK, and it would give the ticket some "down home" cred. Still don't think it would be as good a pick as Haley, but it's less complicated.

-Susanna Martinez, governor of New Mexico. Problem is, like Haley she's denied any interest in the position. And probably wants no association with Romney, given that NM is far more Hispanic-friendly than neighboring Arizona and her re-election is absolutely dependent on not alienating those Hispanic voters.

Some interesting male prospects:

--Tim Pawlenty. Now that he's survived the recall election, he looks tough and defiant. He gives the ticket some heartland cred, and a record of actual conservative legislation.

--Gen. David Petraeus. This would be a seriously ballsy move. Instant national security cred, and I have to admit it'd even give me pause. Petraeus is a badass motherfucker, and incredibly sharp. Problem is, he's currently busy with this little thing called Afghanistan, he hasn't shown an interest in running for office, and it's not even clear if he's a Republican. Although the old adage stands, you never want your VP to be more popular than you are.


I think perhaps the bigger story is how many people are already kind of saying "Thanks, but no thanks" before even being tapped by Romney. I think a lot of people in the GOP think this is just not going to happen this year, so they're saving their powder for 2016. There's not a lot of upside to being the VP pick in a losing campaign. Think Dan Quayle, think Admiral Stockdale, think Sarah Palin, think Geraldine Ferraro.
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GlyphGryph

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3928 on: July 05, 2012, 10:18:08 am »

So you're saying there's no a lot of upside... unless you plan to make a ton of cash doing talk shows and book deals?

;)
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RedKing

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3929 on: July 05, 2012, 10:22:51 am »

So you're saying there's no a lot of upside... unless you plan to make a ton of cash doing talk shows and book deals?

;)
Palin's the exception to the rule, mostly because she's an utterly shameless self-promoter. With a rack. And no day job to keep her off the talk-show circuit. Had she remained governor of Alaska and actually attended to gubernatorial duties, she'd have faded back into semi-obscurity within a couple of years. Instead, she bailed on the job and picked up her own reality TV show (and one for her daughter).
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Remember, knowledge is power. The power to make other people feel stupid.
Quote from: Neil DeGrasse Tyson
Science is like an inoculation against charlatans who would have you believe whatever it is they tell you.
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