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Dwarf Fortress => DF Modding => Mod Releases => Topic started by: Lagotrope on November 14, 2010, 08:39:32 am

Title: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Lagotrope on November 14, 2010, 08:39:32 am
What Is It?

Hard mode, put simply. As the name implies, this mod's purpose is to play as Kobolds instead of the usual Dwarves, with a few tweaks and additions to fit the way kobolds play. The biggest difference is that there is virtually no mining of stone, the kobolds are only capable of digging through soil for shelter, and are much more reliant on outdoor production, especially for wood. With these limitations, Kobold Camp is essentially a lower powered DF, with much a much weaker civilization.

There are a few additions that ease the difficulty. Kobolds can farm wood and make leather beds, and so there isn't necessarily a horrible lack of wood.

Also, caravans even with other kobolds will have metal ores and other valuables, and they are able to use and forge gems and bars.

Lastly, as traditional with kobolds, they have a good ability with mechanics and traps. Which is almost a necessity in many cases, as it is much more difficult to raise a kobold military competent enough to fight off a siege.

Why Is It?

It's hard, you'll probably not last through your first seige, and kobolds like dying more than dwarves. Settling next to so much as an alligator will mean bad news for your camp. Yet if you pass all this, if you manage to get a thriving camp/warren going with the cute little things meandering about their business, it all feels quite rewarding over a dwarven instant-pass to invincible-fort.

The Latest Versions

The prepacked, full version (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2071)

The standalone raws. (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3139)


Changelog    (Latest 4, the entire log can be found in the readme)

Spoiler: Version 1.51 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Version 1.5 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Version 1.4 (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Version 1.3 (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (for VER 31.17)
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on November 14, 2010, 08:45:05 am
Long live kobolds!
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (for VER 31.17)
Post by: Lofn on November 14, 2010, 09:04:40 am
I approve of this mod.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (for VER 31.17)
Post by: Fayrik on November 14, 2010, 09:33:10 am
Switching my notifications over.. Now!

Quote from: Lagotrope on November 14, 2010, 08:39:32 am
Although, I moved into a friendly human and 'slapped' him, inciting a mass kobold-hunt..
Isn't this what tends to start early tribal warfare?
That gives me the mental image of a Kobold stood on a rock, slapping a man around the face.

And, since we're in the new thread.. Here's to Kobold Camp! Setting the standard of Kobold fanship since 40d! And, hopefully many more versions to come!
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (for VER 31.17)
Post by: Deon on November 14, 2010, 09:36:00 am
I would make it long time ago if not Genesis/Wasteland which took all my DF modding time :).

Did you make hammocks and most of the stone undiggable? Oh well, I think I will just DL and check it.

Also, please make a cool kobold alchemy!
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (for VER 31.17)
Post by: Deon on November 14, 2010, 09:39:12 am
Oh, I see you used my healthcare modcomp, awesome.

Quote
[REACTION:PROCESS_WOOD]
   [NAME:process wood]
   [BUILDING:WOOD_PROCESSOR:CUSTOM_W]
   [REAGENT:A:1:STONE:NO_SUBTYPE:NONE:NONE]
   [PRODUCT:100:1:BLOCKS:NO_SUBTYPE:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:NONE]
   [PRODUCT:50:1:BLOCKS:NO_SUBTYPE:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:NONE]
   [SKILL:STONECRAFT]
...
Quote
NAME:process wood
REAGENT:A:1:STONE
... What?

P.S. Throwing gloves would sound better as a "sling", especially because it's made out of leather.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (for VER 31.17)
Post by: Lagotrope on November 14, 2010, 09:45:40 am
Quote from: Deon on November 14, 2010, 09:36:00 am
I would make it long time ago if not Genesis/Wasteland which took all my DF modding time :).

Did you make hammocks and most of the stone undiggable? Oh well, I think I will just DL and check it.

Also, please make a cool kobold alchemy!

I did not make hammocks unfortunately, and it seems I missed any mention of anything of the sort. Not a bad idea at all though, kobolds can use all the wood they can get, and getting beds out of rope reed sounds quite nice.

But yes, the stone issue was fixed, most stone is undiggable once again (unless 31.17 borked it and it is. Aquifers kept coming up through my hasty testing, so I couldn't make sure, but based on changelog/file changes, it should all be the same.)

Alchemy. I would love to see this. I have no idea how to make this.


Quote from: Deon on November 14, 2010, 09:39:12 am
Oh, I see you used my healthcare modcomp, awesome.

That is correct, it's been in there since fore-

Quote from: Deon on November 14, 2010, 09:39:12 am

Quote
[REACTION:PROCESS_WOOD]
   [NAME:process wood]
   [BUILDING:WOOD_PROCESSOR:CUSTOM_W]
   [REAGENT:A:1:STONE:NO_SUBTYPE:NONE:NONE]
   [PRODUCT:100:1:BLOCKS:NO_SUBTYPE:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:NONE]
   [PRODUCT:50:1:BLOCKS:NO_SUBTYPE:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:NONE]
   [SKILL:STONECRAFT]
...
Quote
NAME:process wood
REAGENT:A:1:STONE
... What?

Sweet mother of kobold jesus I think I was drunk.

brb KC ver 1.121 bout to come up
EDIT: KC ver 1.121 is up. Nice not having to link it anymore. I also added in the skill rate tag, set at 80%, something I tried to do long ago. I assume it works now.

Also fair point about the sling but a sling already does exist so having two would be rather confusing. Also using a sling to throw hammers sounds silly. Would sound better, but ideally you could tell kobolds to throw them rather than needing a firing mechanism.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (for VER 31.17)
Post by: Fayrik on November 14, 2010, 09:58:24 am
Quote from: Lagotrope on November 14, 2010, 09:45:40 am
But yes, the stone issue was fixed, most stone is undiggable once again (unless 31.17 borked it and it is. Aquifers kept coming up through my hasty testing, so I couldn't make sure, but based on changelog/file changes, it should all be the same.)
I'm still not sure about undiggable stone. Digging yourself into a massive inpeneratrible fort of stone is very un-Koboldish, but.. I'd just love to get a Camp running in the first layer caverns.
Actually.. If I can just embark on a cave... Maybe that'll work!

Quote from: Lagotrope on November 14, 2010, 09:45:40 am
Sweet mother of kobold jesus what
Hehe! Kobold Jesus. He devided the Wolf meat and Carp between a camp of 500!
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (for VER 31.17)
Post by: Lagotrope on November 14, 2010, 10:08:23 am
Quote from: Fayrik on November 14, 2010, 09:58:24 am
I'm still not sure about undiggable stone. Digging yourself into a massive inpeneratrible fort of stone is very un-Koboldish, but.. I'd just love to get a Camp running in the first layer caverns.
Actually.. If I can just embark on a cave... Maybe that'll work!

Undiggable as in you can't dig through it, as in you won't be digging yourself through a massive impenetrable fort of stone. So unless you embark in an area with chert/shale I believe it was, you really will just be able to dig yourself a cave in the first few layers were soft soil is. Not really sure what you mean by that, honestly. You can embark on a cave to get yourself some instant-shelter and hideaways and guaranteed death.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.121, for DF 31.17)
Post by: The Doctor on November 14, 2010, 10:12:12 am
Any way I can de-notificate myself from the previous thread?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.121, for DF 31.17)
Post by: Fayrik on November 14, 2010, 10:12:46 am
Sorry, I was really unclear. I mean, I wanted to set up a village in the first layer of the caverns. I'm not sure how long Kobolds will last down there, but seeing as their start zone is in the caves anyway, they must be used to it somewhat.
I quite agree that stone isn't really a Kobold's best Architectural material.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.121, for DF 31.17)
Post by: Lagotrope on November 14, 2010, 10:21:54 am
Quote from: DoctorZ on November 14, 2010, 10:12:12 am
Any way I can de-notificate myself from the previous thread?

Sorry, I've never had any idea how to use the notify system. I'm hoping that it'll simply not be responded to, leaving it unnecessary to do so.

Quote from: Fayrik on November 14, 2010, 10:12:46 am
Sorry, I was really unclear. I mean, I wanted to set up a village in the first layer of the caverns. I'm not sure how long Kobolds will last down there, but seeing as their start zone is in the caves anyway, they must be used to it somewhat.
I quite agree that stone isn't really a Kobold's best Architectural material.

Ahh, yes. Their start zone always has been in the caves, way back when the caves weren't exactly pits of doom. I hope you have better luck than I did. Last time I embarked on a cave, there was literally a hydra on the kobold's wagon at the start.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.121, for DF 31.17)
Post by: Lofn on November 14, 2010, 10:30:40 am
I have had a lot of fun embarking on top of caves with nothing but some meat, spears and leather armour.  It will either be a very short game or a fun cave exploration game that starts with 200 units of meat and a <<dragon scale cloak>> for your expedition leader.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.121, for DF 31.17)
Post by: Fayrik on November 14, 2010, 02:28:57 pm
That'd be great, if I could assign clothes to people!

But.. If there's a hydra, doesn't that mean it can bite each of your 'Bolds, all at once?

Of course, Megabeasts wouldn't be such a problem if DF hack was working! *sigh*
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.121, for DF 31.17)
Post by: monk12 on November 14, 2010, 07:27:57 pm
Huzzah! Right when I was thinking that a Kobold adventurer would be pretty sweet, too. I eagerly anticipate the day that quests are moddable, so that Kobld Chiefs will quest me to steal from fortresses rather than kill random beasts.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.121, for DF 31.17)
Post by: Eagle_eye on November 14, 2010, 09:08:39 pm
I noticed goblins are now hostile again. Is this intentional?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.121, for DF 31.17)
Post by: Lagotrope on November 14, 2010, 09:41:07 pm
Quote from: Fayrik on November 14, 2010, 02:28:57 pm
But.. If there's a hydra, doesn't that mean it can bite each of your 'Bolds, all at once?

That's the gist of what happened, yes.

Quote from: Eagle_eye on November 14, 2010, 09:08:39 pm
I noticed goblins are now hostile again. Is this intentional?

Heh, I never knew they WEREN'T hostile. I think it depends on randomated world-gen. I think if you add babysnatcher they might be friendly, but then humans/elves won't like you, and even then I'm not sure. It's actually been quite awhile since I've tested camps for lengths of years, generally I just make sure the reactions work, nothing in the errorlog, etc.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.121, for DF 31.17)
Post by: Eagle_eye on November 15, 2010, 09:16:49 am
yeah, in the previous 2010 versions goblins were friendly, and all other races were hostile. Now they're all hostile...
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.121, for DF 31.17)
Post by: The Transcendent Tyrant on November 15, 2010, 11:22:43 am
KFC, perhaps?

Kobold Fried Chicken. *drool*
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.121, for DF 31.17)
Post by: Lagotrope on November 16, 2010, 03:09:52 am
Quote from: Eagle_eye on November 15, 2010, 09:16:49 am
yeah, in the previous 2010 versions goblins were friendly, and all other races were hostile. Now they're all hostile...

Huh, that's strange. I'm willing to say it was something in the normal changes to vanilla DF (adversely most likely), because there hasn't been a change in KC that I could imagine change the interactions between entities whatsoever.

In other news, more messing around with adventurer, I made kobolds dwell in towns instead of the normal caves, so that they show up in the world map when you create a kobold adventurer. This worked (and I didn't end up attacking people after talking to them), however, it seems to treat you as an enemy when you go to a different hamlet, even if it's part of the same civilization (or should be anyway.)

So it's not impossible, it's just a bit rougher having to only get quests from one hamlet, it makes that the one little spot you can go to, a tiny little safe haven. Which I wouldn't actually mind, but going to a hamlet 2 hours away and having the kobolds zerg rush you is a little disenchanting. I may work on this, seeing if there's something fixable about it, when magical inspiration hits me to do so, as well as work on various suggestions for KC dwarf mode. Maybe make them be in forest retreats, that may work well, even better. (I haven't seen a kobold town or fortress, but that may just be me trying to not die.)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.121, for DF 31.17)
Post by: guale on November 16, 2010, 03:16:21 am
I belive Deon discovered that being attacked by supposedly friendly towns is a cause of the [LOCAL_BANDITRY] tag which I see 'bolds have.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.121, for DF 31.17)
Post by: Lagotrope on November 16, 2010, 03:45:19 am
Quote from: guale on November 16, 2010, 03:16:21 am
I belive Deon discovered that being attacked by supposedly friendly towns is a cause of the [LOCAL_BANDITRY] tag which I see 'bolds have.


Yes, I.. was just about to post my findings here by editing my last post after discovering it was that tag. But it appears that I simply re-invented the wheel. Oh well, problem is solved.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.121, for DF 31.17)
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 16, 2010, 03:49:59 am
Quote from: Lagotrope on November 14, 2010, 10:21:54 am
Quote from: DoctorZ on November 14, 2010, 10:12:12 am
Any way I can de-notificate myself from the previous thread?

Sorry, I've never had any idea how to use the notify system. I'm hoping that it'll simply not be responded to, leaving it unnecessary to do so.

Quote from: Fayrik on November 14, 2010, 10:12:46 am
Sorry, I was really unclear. I mean, I wanted to set up a village in the first layer of the caverns. I'm not sure how long Kobolds will last down there, but seeing as their start zone is in the caves anyway, they must be used to it somewhat.
I quite agree that stone isn't really a Kobold's best Architectural material.

Ahh, yes. There start zone always has been in the caves, way back when the caves weren't exactly pits of doom. I hope you have better luck than I did. Last time I embarked on a cave, there was literally a hydra on the kobold's wagon at the start.

how do you embark in caves?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.121, for DF 31.17)
Post by: Lagotrope on November 16, 2010, 05:38:48 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on November 16, 2010, 03:49:59 am
how do you embark in caves?

You find a cave, and then you embark on it.

You probably have to go generate a world with parameters though, I believe something like "show tunnels on embark" or something to make caves visible. Then they should show up as boulders, and you embark on them. You'll still start above ground, but the entrance to the cave will be there.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.121, for DF 31.17)
Post by: bobsnewaddress on November 16, 2010, 11:24:02 am
I played Kobold Camp back in 40d and had a nice little camp going: in fact we regularly destroyed enemy sieges with legendary wrestler champions equipped with turtle shell helmets and bone armor and when the Dungeon Master arrived we were able to smelt all the enemy goods and forge them into armor and weapons for our men.

I don't see why you have to make stone undiggable though? Kobold thieves coming to my fort are routinely equipped with bronze or steel daggers, which implies that they are able to smelt metal and dig up the ores for them.

I could see having a custom workshop to make obsidian or flint weapons (that are actually obsidian and not just listed as wood training weapons), or a custom workshop to turn copper, gold or iron nuggets into weapons and goods without using smelting or furnace operating.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.121, for DF 31.17)
Post by: Fayrik on November 16, 2010, 12:14:04 pm
They probably steal those weapons. They are master theves after all.

As for the weapons, I thought you could do that with the Armoury shop already.. But, I'll admit, I never really got that far into a camp.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.121, for DF 31.17)
Post by: Vucar Fikodastesh on November 16, 2010, 12:33:24 pm
Why not add some copper, tin, gold, and silver ores that sometimes show up in soil layers? Then you can make a workshop that lets Kobolds cold forge them.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.121, for DF 31.17)
Post by: Fayrik on November 16, 2010, 12:45:16 pm
Soils don't ever leave materals. Setting native copper as a soil layer would render it useless.

You can often find ores in cliffs and waterfalls, however.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.121, for DF 31.17)
Post by: Vucar Fikodastesh on November 16, 2010, 12:54:36 pm
I didn't mean that they should be made into soils. I was thinking of clusters or veins that appear in soil layers. And, yes you can make soil layers that leave rocks; just look at how Deon does peat in his genesis mod.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.121, for DF 31.17)
Post by: Fayrik on November 16, 2010, 01:05:57 pm
Ohh, I didn't realise that clustering worked on soil types. That's not too bad of an idea.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.121, for DF 31.17)
Post by: Lagotrope on November 16, 2010, 05:55:37 pm
Quote from: bobsnewaddress on November 16, 2010, 11:24:02 am
I played Kobold Camp back in 40d and had a nice little camp going: in fact we regularly destroyed enemy sieges with legendary wrestler champions equipped with turtle shell helmets and bone armor and when the Dungeon Master arrived we were able to smelt all the enemy goods and forge them into armor and weapons for our men.

I don't see why you have to make stone undiggable though? Kobold thieves coming to my fort are routinely equipped with bronze or steel daggers, which implies that they are able to smelt metal and dig up the ores for them.

I could see having a custom workshop to make obsidian or flint weapons (that are actually obsidian and not just listed as wood training weapons), or a custom workshop to turn copper, gold or iron nuggets into weapons and goods without using smelting or furnace operating.

It's a mere design choice; and the undiggable tags are the only changes to that file. If you like your stone diggable, just copy/paste the two vanilla .txt files (inorganic_stone_layer/mineral) and replace the old, modded ones. However, copper/silver/gold/platinum is left diggable, the challenge is to find them. KC isn't some copyrighted mod by me, no one's gonna shun you if you change kobolds to match how you imagine them to be.

As for custom workshops... they're already there. Assuming they haven't broken on me, you can make your weapons out of copper/obsidian/whatever. Most are pretty self-explanatory, but there's descriptions in the readme.

Quote from: Vucar Fikodastesh on November 16, 2010, 12:33:24 pm
Why not add some copper, tin, gold, and silver ores that sometimes show up in soil layers? Then you can make a workshop that lets Kobolds cold forge them.

The veins in the soil idea, not a bad idea. Unfortunately I don't mod nearly as much as Deon and my knowledge reflects that; I'm just not sure how I'd go about modding that in. Or wood crops. Or alchemy. But I may learn yet. For now, I'm porting over to 31.18, may see about making a few of those non-shallow changes, I'll see if something hits me.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.121, for DF 31.17)
Post by: Eagle_eye on November 16, 2010, 05:57:58 pm
I noticed something odd... if you remove the shovels at embark, it seems you can't get them back...
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.121, for DF 31.17)
Post by: Lagotrope on November 16, 2010, 06:11:17 pm
Quote from: Eagle_eye on November 16, 2010, 05:57:58 pm
I noticed something odd... if you remove the shovels at embark, it seems you can't get them back...

Fantastic I thought I fixed that. It's annoying, but it's not game-breaking once you learn to not remove them. Might have something to do with your embark location, though, I seem to recall if there wasn't another civ of kobolds around, it wouldn't let you bring along certain things. Been so long, though.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.121, for DF 31.17)
Post by: guale on November 17, 2010, 01:19:24 am
Quote from: Lagotrope on November 16, 2010, 05:55:37 pm
The veins in the soil idea, not a bad idea. Unfortunately I don't mod nearly as much as Deon and my knowledge reflects that; I'm just not sure how I'd go about modding that in. Or wood crops. Or alchemy. But I may learn yet. For now, I'm porting over to 31.18, may see about making a few of those non-shallow changes, I'll see if something hits me.
Shouldn't you just be able to add [ENVIRONMENT:SOIL:CLUSTER_SMALL:100] into the ores you want to show up in inorganic_stone_mineral.txt? I put Cluster instead of vein because vein just seemed too big to me.
As for wood crops I believe you just make a crop that is inedible, uncookable, unbrewable, etc. and make a reaction to turn it into a log.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.121, for DF 31.17)
Post by: Lagotrope on November 17, 2010, 02:11:56 am
Quote from: guale on November 17, 2010, 01:19:24 am
Quote from: Lagotrope on November 16, 2010, 05:55:37 pm
The veins in the soil idea, not a bad idea. Unfortunately I don't mod nearly as much as Deon and my knowledge reflects that; I'm just not sure how I'd go about modding that in. Or wood crops. Or alchemy. But I may learn yet. For now, I'm porting over to 31.18, may see about making a few of those non-shallow changes, I'll see if something hits me.
Shouldn't you just be able to add [ENVIRONMENT:SOIL:CLUSTER_SMALL:100] into the ores you want to show up in inorganic_stone_mineral.txt? I put Cluster instead of vein because vein just seemed too big to me.
As for wood crops I believe you just make a crop that is inedible, uncookable, unbrewable, etc. and make a reaction to turn it into a log.

Yes, that's precisely what I did for the soil, that wasn't too hard once I looked up some modding. I just didn't know it off the top of my head. However, for some reason I thought vein was smaller than cluster_small, so I'll fix that next release.

Wood crops.. can't believe I didn't think of that, to make a reaction from a normal plant. Thanks for the tipoffs, I really am rusty at this. Since wood is straightforward like that, it'll also be applied next release.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.13, for DF 31.18)
Post by: Squeak_Rustfur on November 17, 2010, 03:31:23 am
I love this mod.

There does seem to be rather a lot of precious metal laying in the dirt now. My 'bold just tripped over two gold veins and one platinum vein on the way to the weapon shop.

In reality, aside from maybe the occasional placer deposit of something inert like gold, native metals just don't appear in soil... then again, dwarven geology does need to be taken with a grain of salt.

edit: First post! Yay me.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.13, for DF 31.18)
Post by: Squeak_Rustfur on November 17, 2010, 03:41:22 am
Quote from: Squeak_Rustfur on November 17, 2010, 03:31:23 am
I love this mod.

There does seem to be rather a lot of precious metal laying in the dirt now. My 'bold just tripped over two gold veins and one platinum vein on the way to the weapon shop.

In reality, aside from the occasional alluvial placer deposit of something inert like gold, native metals just don't appear in soil... then again, dwarven geology does need to be taken with a grain of salt.

edit: First post! Yay me.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.13, for DF 31.18)
Post by: Lagotrope on November 17, 2010, 03:49:37 am
Quote from: Squeak_Rustfur on November 17, 2010, 03:31:23 am
I love this mod.

There does seem to be rather a lot of precious metal laying in the dirt now. My 'bold just tripped over two gold veins and one platinum vein on the way to the weapon shop.

In reality, aside from maybe the occasional placer deposit, precious metals and ores just don't appear in soil layers... then again, dwarven geology does need to be taken with a grain of salt.

Yes, definitely didn't mean to have soil be goldmines perse. I've changed it cluster_small, so it shouldn't be breathing the precious metals, I'm just having trouble with the crop. In any case, reality has been changed for this case, as I don't think it makes the game too easy. The best weapons you can make are still copper, the best advantage is likely having the precious metals made into tradeable materials.

In other news, only thing I believe left to do for ideas is get those crops up. The crops exist, but trying to turn them into wood.. well that works too, problem is is that kobolds seem to be able to use anything, not just the kobold lumber plant.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

There are the two reactions used, one for the log at a detriment to seeds, the other to get more seeds over logs. Never was able to get a grip on item/material subtypes. I'll toy around with it though, it should work before too long.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.13, for DF 31.18)
Post by: Kiktamo on November 17, 2010, 01:06:13 pm
I remember doing something similar myself at one point but I seem to have deleted it oh well.

If you're having to much trouble you could try using reaction classes that might help.

You could also look at the sawmill mod I believe it does the same thing.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=65844.msg1556971#msg1556971
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.13, for DF 31.18)
Post by: Squeak_Rustfur on November 19, 2010, 04:04:32 am
It seems that my 'bold adventurers are getting renamed after every notable kill. Something to do with the [UTTERANCES] tag scrambling the title they are give after the kill I suppose.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.13, for DF 31.18)
Post by: Lagotrope on November 19, 2010, 05:27:17 am
Quote from: Kiktamo on November 17, 2010, 01:06:13 pm
I remember doing something similar myself at one point but I seem to have deleted it oh well.

If you're having to much trouble you could try using reaction classes that might help.

You could also look at the sawmill mod I believe it does the same thing.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=65844.msg1556971#msg1556971

Ah, thank you, I can implement this. The problem was, as expected, that I just don't get where what matgloss/item (sub)type goes where.

Quote from: Squeak_Rustfur on November 19, 2010, 04:04:32 am
It seems that my 'bold adventurers are getting renamed after every notable kill. Something to do with the [UTTERANCES] tag scrambling the title they are give after the kill I suppose.

How strange.. I just noticed it myself. It's fixable I think, just remove the utterances and then the translations in the entity file so it doesn't pick up the kobold.txt. If I recall that would still have names like Cheebis or Bigithribus or whathaveyou, and may solve the issue. I'll test it out, see if it works.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.13, for DF 31.18)
Post by: Fayrik on November 19, 2010, 06:34:24 pm
Ah, just a warning from my experiences.
When I tryed reinstating utterances in the .16 version, I removed the language file without actually adding utterances.
I ended up recieving migrant waves of 'bolds without names, but with job titles.
It was weird, though suddenly a lot easier to see who did what.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.13, for DF 31.18)
Post by: Lagotrope on November 20, 2010, 11:46:05 am
Quote from: Fayrik on November 19, 2010, 06:34:24 pm
Ah, just a warning from my experiences.
When I tryed reinstating utterances in the .16 version, I removed the language file without actually adding utterances.
I ended up recieving migrant waves of 'bolds without names, but with job titles.
It was weird, though suddenly a lot easier to see who did what.

Huh, not sure if I have matching experience. For one thing, the 31.16 (and beyond) should already have [UTTERANCES] in the kobold creature entry. But yes if you delete the .txt language file and there's no utterances, then I believe what happens is that the skulking entity token still sees [TRANSLATION:KOBOLD] and so looks for a kobold.txt that doesn't exist, thus blank entries. If you remove the utterances tag AND the translation tag from the respective files, I think they still get kobold names.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.13, for DF 31.18)
Post by: Fayrik on November 20, 2010, 12:29:10 pm
Sorry, I wasn't very clear.
I removed the translation tag, but not the translation file.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.13, for DF 31.18)
Post by: Sparklet on November 24, 2010, 11:44:31 am
Fantastic mod.  It is the only one I have used to date, even if My Kobolds keep getting butchered by Elves.

I am looking forward to the ability to grow trees, it will make building defensive positions a lot easier.

Does the [BONECARN] tag stop Kobolds from eating plants?  I have tried to search but all I have seen is that it implies [CARNIVORE] which sounds like a no plants kind of deal.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.13, for DF 31.18)
Post by: The Doctor on November 24, 2010, 11:46:42 am
Yes it does.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.13, for DF 31.18)
Post by: Lagotrope on November 25, 2010, 09:46:26 pm
Quote from: Sparklet on November 24, 2010, 11:44:31 am
Fantastic mod.  It is the only one I have used to date, even if My Kobolds keep getting butchered by Elves.

I am looking forward to the ability to grow trees, it will make building defensive positions a lot easier.

Does the [BONECARN] tag stop Kobolds from eating plants?  I have tried to search but all I have seen is that it implies [CARNIVORE] which sounds like a no plants kind of deal.

As DoctorZ put the simple answer, yes. To further explain, farming still has uses by creating either rope reed, or in other cases wine/ale/alcoholic beverage, which although they are carnivorous, they will drink that. Furthermore, if you have a cook, then when you create fancy foods that involve more than one ingredient, you can put plants into the product. As long as there's at least one unit of meat involved, they'll eat it even if it's mostly plant (last I checked). So there are ways around it, and outdoor farming still has some good uses.

As far as getting meat is concerned, early on you can generally get by by fishing in water. Unless this has changed, before long the river will run dry of fish though, but usually not before you can get a good amount of exportable goods, whether it's basic carvings or a goblin siege you managed to survive. In my experience, once I get a good number of kobolds, the ability to sustain the camp is entirely dependent on the caravans coming through and your kobolds buying out all the meat they bring in. Many a time have I gotten precariously close to an empty meat stock before the human caravan finally came in with their massive number of meat, as sometimes the kobold goods are a bit underwhelming.
Though this was primarily in the 40d experience, the goblin's sieges made in hopes of killing every last one of my kobolds was, in fact, the one thing that prevented all my kobolds from starving without enough money to buy food.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: GaxkangtheUnbound on November 27, 2010, 09:48:38 pm
You say the vermin cooking recipe doesn't work?
Try this as the product:
   [PRODUCT:100:1:MEAT:NONE:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:MUSCLE]
From what I've seen, creature "meat" is actually muscle.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Bronze Dog on December 09, 2010, 07:44:16 pm
Been a while since I've DF/KC'd. ...I've been Minecrafting. Sometimes with a Cutebold skin on my character.

Glad to see updates are still being done, though I'll have to get acquainted with the latest changes to know what's possible.

I thought I'd mention a few ideas I dreamed up, at the risk of repeating some ideas I posted in the previous thread:

More technical stuff:

Atlatl: A spear-throwing stick used way back. It could be a good alternative projectile weapon, with javelins as the projectiles (to differentiate them from melee-oriented spears).

Ceramics: Someone else brought it up way back, last time I was on the forum, and I smacked myself on the head for not thinking about it. The concept: Gather clay like you would sand, and you fire it in a kiln to produce ceramic objects with properties similar to stone. I don't know what difficulties would come with modding it in, unless Toady did it during the months I wasn't looking. Ceramic blocks (AKA bricks) could be used for building constructions.

Banded armor: I had a thought about armor kobolds with their low metalworking skills would make, and armor made of bands of metal came to mind: It wouldn't be as protective as plate armor, and it wouldn't require forging very large amounts of metal at once: Make a bunch of strips of metal an just tie them together with rope reed string in a semi-haphazard way. It's still flexible, and I imagine kobolds need to retain some agility, since a small critter in full plate probably wouldn't be as well-protected as another creature with actual mass.

Flavorful stuff: How I'd play kobolds, just to share my private vision.

I'd probably tweak the mod so that kobolds can dig stone, but I'd restrain myself from just hollowing out mountains. A small stone home carved into the side of a cliff would be reserved for high-ranking kobolds and maybe storage for the most valuable of items.

Magic circles and runes: I'd give a shaman some engraving duties and give a few tweaks so that kobolds would favor geometric shapes. The engraved runes would have no actual effects aside from psychological ones, but they'd look magical, and that's what would matter to the superstitious kobolds.

Religion: I'll be reading up on the relevant tokens for religion. Something tells me that kobolds are the sorts who'd be particularly prone to worshiping Titans and such.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Verdian on December 09, 2010, 08:17:56 pm
I haven't tried Kobold camp in a while, so I am looking forward to playing again. Two questions: First, can someone explain how to add Ironhand's Graphics to KC? I tried doing it and ended up ruining my folder. :( Second, do kobolds need to muddy grass to farm above ground? If so, does anyone have a better way of doing this than digging into the side of a pond and letting the water spill out?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Lagotrope on December 09, 2010, 09:30:24 pm
Quote from: Bronze Dog on December 09, 2010, 07:44:16 pm
Been a while since I've DF/KC'd. ...I've been Minecrafting. Sometimes with a Cutebold skin on my character.

Glad to see updates are still being done, though I'll have to get acquainted with the latest changes to know what's possible.

I thought I'd mention a few ideas I dreamed up, at the risk of repeating some ideas I posted in the previous thread:

Huh, I've been minecrafting too for awhile now. Not so much with a cutebold skin; that may change.

Atlatls and all sorts of aztec weaponry have already been implemented, actually. Ceramics, on the other hand, are a good idea. I'll also keep that in mind about the banded armor.

Personally I was making kobold camp to where the player didn't have to use self-restraint to limit themselves. There is of course nothing stopping anyone from overriding KC's material template with vanilla's to make mining possible again and doing it how they like. Even if I was half and half for or against letting kobolds mine I'd still likely include all the unmineable tags, because it's a lot easier to revert to vanilla over going through the whole file adding unmineable to everything.

Magical runes aren't bad fluff, but I'm not sure how modding would be plausible for it (namely if geometrical shapes are an available option, though they might be.)

Lastly, I think I actually changed the religion already. They worship pantheons now if I recall (things like jewels, farming, that kind of thing.) It's been awhile, I should make sure it didn't somehow get lost. If it's possible to worship titans, I may do that.

Quote from: Verdian on December 09, 2010, 08:17:56 pm
I haven't tried Kobold camp in a while, so I am looking forward to playing again. Two questions: First, can someone explain how to add Ironhand's Graphics to KC? I tried doing it and ended up ruining my folder. :( Second, do kobolds need to muddy grass to farm above ground? If so, does anyone have a better way of doing this than digging into the side of a pond and letting the water spill out?

Graphics... it's been so long since I've touched on them, I should imagine you can just add that graphic folder AFTER making sure to delete the current graphics. There should be some readme in ironhand's though (I should hope anyway, I've never used his.) Sorry I can't be much help for this one.
Secondly, I don't believe so, last I checked. It may help, but I've been able to make crops by just plowing over ground.

Quote from: GaxkangtheUnbound on November 27, 2010, 09:48:38 pm
You say the vermin cooking recipe doesn't work?
Try this as the product:
   [PRODUCT:100:1:MEAT:NONE:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:MUSCLE]
From what I've seen, creature "meat" is actually muscle.

Thanks, I'll be giving this reaction a shot for a new version.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Bronze Dog on December 09, 2010, 11:50:52 pm
Yeah, I understand wanting to maintain an "official" sort of mod to quasi-enforce stone use and other tech-based limitations. I'm mostly just saying I'd diddle with appropriate tokens for my own version, so no one should take my posts here as anything other than my own vision.

Something else I considered doing with a personal version: IIRC, elves were pretty much the original attackers against kobolds, so I'd probably try to maintain that rivalry and come up with differences that would put the two against each other, and I think I've got my own personal fluff reasons for doing so:

Elves are arrogant: They think they're so superior. So many bad fantasy writers (and some good ones as well) have pretty much put elves as a Mary Sue race who end up acting in a condescending manner towards other races so that they can preach whatever the author wants them to.

Kobolds are humble: They know they're far from the best. They're small, weak, and technologically backwards. All the other races look down on them, either with contempt or pity. If they attract the malice of another race, it will be a struggle just to survive.

Elves live in the Disney version of nature: They don't cut down trees, animals never attack them, and Mother Nature just seems to give them a free pass on everything. They just spend their centuries of life frolicking in the forest, singing tra-la-la-li-laly.

Kobolds live in nature when it's red in tooth and claw: They have to hunt animals in the wilderness to survive, and any predator could pose a threat. They have limited ability to build shelters, and they can't simply raise crops because of their carnivorous nature. They have to earn their survival.

Elves are beautiful: This bit is inspired by Lorwyn elves from one of the Magic: the Gathering worlds. Those elves sought to beautify the world, and part of doing so meant killing off the 'eyeblights': Creatures who didn't measure up to their vision of beauty. Their free pass for survival has blinded them to the ugly truths other creatures have to face.

Kobolds have little use for beauty: Art falls by the wayside when survival is a struggle. Kobolds know the savage side of life, and when they do create art, it's unlikely to be the excessively tranquil sort.

One idea I'm thinking of to implement this rivalry is to give the elves the Baby Snatcher token: Some elves could consider it daring and fashionable to sneak into a kobold camp alone to capture pups and raise them like pets, and eventually, slaves. I suspect since elves don't die of old age, baby-snatching elves are less likely than goblins to end up being replaced by snatched races. It'd probably be a good idea for someone to test that. Of course, another concern that crops up is how the elves would fare against dwarves and humans if they're that much more likely to be at war.

---

Other thoughts:

A while back, I came up with an idea for a 'magic' profession where a kobold shaman or whatever would go into a custom workshop and use the Concentration skill to meditate or commune with the spirits and achieve some sort of effect. Unfortunately, I have no idea what sort of product would be a good output for the workshop.

On the engraved magic runes: I got the idea while I was looking over the raws. Apparently there are some categories of images that can be excluded or selected for each civ entity. I'd have to look things over again. It's either that, or preferred words for naming things. I might be mixing those things up.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Verdian on December 09, 2010, 11:58:14 pm
I copied over Ironhand's raws into the KC data and raw folders. Unfortunately, that seems to turn KC into a normal version of DF. I start with dwarves and have none of the unique kobold camp options. Any idea why copying graphics data is reverting the game back?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: atomicoctobot on December 10, 2010, 12:03:01 am
I like the idea of elven baby-snatchers. Elves in DF aren't angels, after all, and even if they were there would still be some bad apples. I'd definitely expect elves to have a few caged kobolds in their caravans.

As for mining stone; I think this would be against the spirit of the mod. Not being able to mine makes it much more a unique experience against vanilla.

Cool ideas, Bronze Dog!
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Trouserman on December 10, 2010, 02:52:01 pm
Quote from: Verdian on December 09, 2010, 11:58:14 pm
I copied over Ironhand's raws into the KC data and raw folders. Unfortunately, that seems to turn KC into a normal version of DF. I start with dwarves and have none of the unique kobold camp options. Any idea why copying graphics data is reverting the game back?

Don't copy the entire raw folder.  The objects subfolder contains the raws that affect the gameplay.  Try just copying the graphics subfolder over.  That ought to give you the creature graphics.  If you want the rest of the tileset, for trees and stone types and all that, it will require a much more involved merging process, as those tile specifications are mixed in with the definitions in the objects folder.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Mickey Blue on December 10, 2010, 04:56:11 pm
This is probably a stupid question but can one revert the graphics in Kobald Kamp to standard ASCII graphics?

Great concept for a game by the way, having fun with it so far!

-MB
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Fayrik on December 10, 2010, 07:29:17 pm
Quote from: Mickey Blue on December 10, 2010, 04:56:11 pm
This is probably a stupid question but can one revert the graphics in Kobald Kamp to standard ASCII graphics?

That's actually surprisingly easy. Init.txt should have a line saying GRAPHICS:YES, if you change the YES to NO, it should work with ASCII again.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Verdian on December 10, 2010, 10:53:19 pm
Quote from: Trouserman on December 10, 2010, 02:52:01 pm
Don't copy the entire raw folder.  The objects subfolder contains the raws that affect the gameplay.  Try just copying the graphics subfolder over.  That ought to give you the creature graphics.  If you want the rest of the tileset, for trees and stone types and all that, it will require a much more involved merging process, as those tile specifications are mixed in with the definitions in the objects folder.

Thank you for the advice. Unfortunately, the rocks and foliage are exactly what I wanted.  :-\ I'll just get use to the included graphics.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Lagotrope on December 11, 2010, 04:06:44 am
Good idea on the part of elves. Honestly, I'm half surprised they don't baby hunt already given their other tendencies (cannibalism). The only qualm about it I have though is that they would almost certainly be at wars with humans and dwarves, and though it doesn't crush my own thoughts on fantasy, it does seem a bit weird. Maybe not so much reading your views on them Bronze, which I do like. I may test this out and consider it for the next version.

As for the idea of shamans using magic, I'd love to implement that lightly, although the raws are a bit limited as is. I could do something simple like using a big collection of kobold crafts as the reagent (say 15 as some random number, but it would be something to make it hard to keep casting back to back), and then have a small chance that you get some nice item you normally couldn't get easily or at all. It's mostly possible, except that ideally it would have a greater chance of success to get an item back the higher concentration the shaman had, but I don't believe there's anything like that. It's all a flat chance. Furthermore, I don't think there's any way to force it so that only shamans can do the reaction (it would fall on the player.)

On graphics.. I may change those later to a different graphics pack, since there's some things I like about the current but not the entirety. I haven't heard an ETA on 31.19, but if I make enough changes to KC then I'll upload it regardless of how I like updating it concurrently with new DF versions.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Pathologik on December 19, 2010, 11:58:05 am
The only real issue I've noticed is that irksome bit with digging implements disappearing if you deselect them at embark. It's probably a pretty simple fix, just a missing entity tag, or something, but I can't figure it out for the life of me.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: LordBadger on December 25, 2010, 09:32:44 pm
Hi pretty new to modding and I don't want to press the issue too far.

That said, I love this veriant of the game. The tiles are great and the mechanics of it all make the game that much better. Now I don't know if it has been answerd yet, I found nothing but what GaxKang has said. I can't get the critter kitchen to work right. When I just add the stated value to the raw, nothing happens to the captured vermin. though I can get the remains to turn into food, and even get them stored in the stock pile.

This is what I did:

[REACTION:COOK_CRITTER]
   [NAME:cook critter]
   [BUILDING:CRITTER_KITCHEN:CUSTOM_C]
   [REAGENT:A:1:REMAINS:NO_SUBTYPE:NONE:NONE]
   [PRODUCT:100:1:MEAT:NONE:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:NONE]
   [SKILL:COOK]

Now it had a second PRODUCT line, but that just turned the remains into ash... Now though I get Rat/Lizard chops. Anyway all this is nice, and makes life on my little ice shelf that much easyer, but having the cats catching an infanite food supply is making a difficult/awsomly fun game mod void of a key challange. So I just wanted to know if anyone has gotten the Critter Kitchen up and running? If so what do I need ot change?

Thanks in advance, please don't snap at me :)
   
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Horizonblue on December 25, 2010, 10:11:18 pm
Just a thought?
What about having an alternate to a bed called a 'nest.'
Could be made of cloth.

Also, why not have two kobold civ styles, the one players do (with an actual civ) and the cave dwelling cousins we have learned to fear (which is easily imitable)?
Otherwise, keep up the awesome work!
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Lagotrope on December 27, 2010, 05:02:26 am
Quote from: Pathologik on December 19, 2010, 11:58:05 am
The only real issue I've noticed is that irksome bit with digging implements disappearing if you deselect them at embark. It's probably a pretty simple fix, just a missing entity tag, or something, but I can't figure it out for the life of me.

Yes, I think I was able to fix this *once*, but it had to mess with the tags in ways that I didn't want to implement. Fixing that with no adverse effects has been a longtime issue that I just can't seem to pin. Unfortunately this was some months ago, and I've forgotten how precisely it worked. I haven't stressed over it too much, since it's annoying but not game breaking (once you realize the issue anyway).



Quote from: LordBadger on December 25, 2010, 09:32:44 pm
Hi pretty new to modding and I don't want to press the issue too far.

That said, I love this veriant of the game. The tiles are great and the mechanics of it all make the game that much better. Now I don't know if it has been answerd yet, I found nothing but what GaxKang has said. I can't get the critter kitchen to work right. When I just add the stated value to the raw, nothing happens to the captured vermin. though I can get the remains to turn into food, and even get them stored in the stock pile.   

I totally forgot about that shop. I think. I don't remember if I forgot, but I know I had some issues with it. I'll try to fix it up next release though, I believe there's been enough notes around now that I can work better with meat in reactions. Not sure why I'd snap at you though.

Quote from: Horizonblue on December 25, 2010, 10:11:18 pm
Just a thought?
What about having an alternate to a bed called a 'nest.'
Could be made of cloth.

Also, why not have two kobold civ styles, the one players do (with an actual civ) and the cave dwelling cousins we have learned to fear (which is easily imitable)?
Otherwise, keep up the awesome work!

Yes, I forget who, but I believe someone mentioned the idea of putting in beds made with rope reed. And I do enjoy the idea of furthering the purpose of farming, what with the agriculture economy taking a hard hit with the [CARNIVORE] tag.

As for 2 kobold civs.. I played with the idea, but I think I scrapped it. Even had it written out for maybe 15 minutes. I may re-consider the idea though. There are a couple things that muck it up in my eyes that prevented me, but it's not a terrible idea by any means.

WARNING: FOLLOWING EXPLANATION IS WORDY AND MOST LIKELY ASININE AS IT'S ME TYPING OUT LOUD

For one thing, it'd be confusing having 2 civs with the same race around, as it usually doesn't distinguish so it would look like kobold is listed twice in a lot of areas. With the same language and creature, it would get real doppleganger-like, except with civ's instead of people.

This could be avoided with naming the player kobolds, say, cutebolds, but something about it bugs me. It's arbitrary preference one could argue, yet it would seem to disassociate cutebolds with kobolds more than I'd like. As in, cutebolds are kobolds interpreted in a cute style ala weaver/gobbo/rubyquestguy/boxdog/whateveryoucallhim. But, they're still a rendering of kobolds be it DnD's scaly reptile who love dragons a bit much, WoW's ugly rat things, Ragnarok's... actually Ragnarok really does make them out as cute doglike things, but anyway. Making a seperate creature def for kobolds, as I say, just makes them seem like a 2nd wheel on a unicycle in my eyes.

Then again it may help if the classic kobolds weren't referred to as such so them and cutebolds are side by side, so it wouldn't seem like there kobolds and then something else passing off as kobolds that you play. Still could get confusing and I would need to playtest a bit, as I might miss something like the necessity of making DF classic kobold having another tileset so it doesn't look like you're stealing from yourself. I will consider it though, any thoughts on this part would be nice as well. It's not a huge impact on general gameplay, but I really am on the fence.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: GaxkangtheUnbound on December 27, 2010, 10:05:55 am
Maybe cavedweller and surfacedweller kobolds?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: LordBadger on December 27, 2010, 09:05:00 pm
Removed for being a bad idea.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on December 27, 2010, 09:59:03 pm
Hi, and I just started playing this mod. Seems good so far. (Meaning I started and then restarted due to me not liking graphics)

EDIT : What are the weapons? They're all strange names.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Lagotrope on December 30, 2010, 02:18:04 am
Quote from: JacenHanLovesLegos on December 27, 2010, 09:59:03 pm
Hi, and I just started playing this mod. Seems good so far. (Meaning I started and then restarted due to me not liking graphics)

EDIT : What are the weapons? They're all strange names.

There's a section for that in the readme, pretty high up. All aztecy. Version's starting to boil over, I may work on the new version before 31.19 comes out, I'm beginning to forget why I was attached to a releasing KC versions along with DF versions.

Quote from: GaxkangtheUnbound on December 27, 2010, 10:05:55 am
Maybe cavedweller and surfacedweller kobolds?

If I implement it in the end then yes, that'll likely be how I end up doing it.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Deus ex Machina on December 31, 2010, 06:16:58 am
How do I switch the kobold graphics to Haggle's graphics?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Jordan~ on December 31, 2010, 06:55:21 pm
For some reason my kobolds won't drink water. They just die of thirst unless I give them booze. It's just ordinary water from a river, sure it's not salty, and it's happened a few times. I can't assign a drinking zone around fresh water, either.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Lagotrope on January 01, 2011, 08:49:10 am
Quote from: Deus ex Machina on December 31, 2010, 06:16:58 am
How do I switch the kobold graphics to Haggle's graphics?

Copy/pasted from the readme (hint hint)

To change to Haggle's brown kobold set, move the graphics_kobolds_haggle.txt from the base KC folder to the KC\raw\graphics folder. Then, in that graphics folder, move graphics_kobolds_gobbo.txt to any other folder of your choice.

Quote from: Jordan~ on December 31, 2010, 06:55:21 pm
For some reason my kobolds won't drink water. They just die of thirst unless I give them booze. It's just ordinary water from a river, sure it's not salty, and it's happened a few times. I can't assign a drinking zone around fresh water, either.

Huh, I can't think of anything offhand. I'll put this on the list of things to investigate. Unfortunately I've been too busy to really sit down and implement all this stuff that's piling up, it may indeed be till 31.19 before a new KC comes out. Maybe. I don't know when 31.19 will come out so I can't say.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on January 01, 2011, 07:50:46 pm
Quote from: Lagotrope on January 01, 2011, 08:49:10 am
Quote from: Jordan~ on December 31, 2010, 06:55:21 pm
For some reason my kobolds won't drink water. They just die of thirst unless I give them booze. It's just ordinary water from a river, sure it's not salty, and it's happened a few times. I can't assign a drinking zone around fresh water, either.
Huh, I can't think of anything offhand. I'll put this on the list of things to investigate. Unfortunately I've been too busy to really sit down and implement all this stuff that's piling up, it may indeed be till 31.19 before a new KC comes out. Maybe. I don't know when 31.19 will come out so I can't say.
I believe it's either a tag problem or a bug.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Master Catfish on January 02, 2011, 10:27:32 pm
I can't get this to work on a mac.  I only used the standalone raws, and when I try to generate a new world I get a blank error box.  Any advice?  I'll keep trying later, but I'm afraid I don't know what's going on.  I just popped the raws in and didn't fiddle around with anything.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Lagotrope on January 03, 2011, 08:29:06 am
Quote from: Master Catfish on January 02, 2011, 10:27:32 pm
I can't get this to work on a mac.  I only used the standalone raws, and when I try to generate a new world I get a blank error box.  Any advice?  I'll keep trying later, but I'm afraid I don't know what's going on.  I just popped the raws in and didn't fiddle around with anything.

And DF works fine for your mac, I assume? If you're using the standalone raws, then I really have no idea what could be causing it. I took a look in the mac DF download, but it all looks the same as far as data files and raw/graphic files are concerned (briefly skimming them anyway.) So if DF vanilla works for you, I'm at a complete loss I'm sorry to say.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Master Catfish on January 03, 2011, 11:18:33 pm
Got it working.  I was being silly.  I'm still having a problem mentioned above though - my kobolds would rather die of dehydration than drink water.  I didn't embark with booze because I figured it wouldn't be a big deal, and now it's the end of my poor fellows!  I wonder what could be causing this?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: UmbrageOfSnow on January 04, 2011, 01:02:04 am
I've just started playing this mod as well (on a mac), and I'm liking the little fragile kobolds so much, I think I want to make a megaconstruction of some kind (out of wood, slowly).  Any ideas?

My current thought is to surround all the little ponds on my map with walls, build them up near the highest level, and curve them all in towards each other.  Then build homes for the kobolds on the undersides of these arches, making a big webby-tree-thing village.  Little guys think they are elves.  I'd like to cover the whole map this way.

But suggestions are welcome, as I'm still in the first year, and I'd like to do something neat with the 'bolds.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Lagotrope on January 04, 2011, 03:00:49 pm
Kobold dehydration problems? Not drinking out of obvious rivers and/or brooks? Well, since this is game stopping for most, I decided to investigate that.

I have NO idea.

That is, I've tested this in a couple different worlds, and they both seem to fish and drink out of the brook/river in each world. The only time they didn't is the first attempt when the brook was frozen. So, without being able to replicate the problem myself, I can't really say what's wrong let alone how to fix it.

And oh yeah umbrage, now with the wood plant it's not too impossible to make a mega construction. Pretty sure the elves would NOT approve of the mass usage of wood for artificial means, but no one cares. As for the type, that's all for you to decide. The hanging tree though is pretty nice, though I'm sure they'd have quite the walk from their bedroom to get outside.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Jordan~ on January 04, 2011, 03:32:08 pm
I noticed in one of my vanilla games that the same thing was happening to the dwarves. Now, they're a bit pickier about what they'll drink at the best of times, but usually they'll stoop to drinking water before they shrivel up. I'm guessing it's a bug with something hardcoded.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Lagotrope on January 04, 2011, 04:34:34 pm
Quote from: Jordan~ on January 04, 2011, 03:32:08 pm
I noticed in one of my vanilla games that the same thing was happening to the dwarves. Now, they're a bit pickier about what they'll drink at the best of times, but usually they'll stoop to drinking water before they shrivel up. I'm guessing it's a bug with something hardcoded.

Alright, that's good to hear. I wanted to make sure that as long as there was a problem, it wasn't something I caused. So, since it's out of my hands, I'll leave it at that.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Master Catfish on January 04, 2011, 05:12:15 pm
That's interesting.  When my kobolds were not drinking, there was some frozen water on the map.  It wasn't all frozen though.  Who knows.  I'll be sure to embark on a warmer biome next time.

Also, I can't get the music to work. 

Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: DKS on January 08, 2011, 12:31:12 am
Well I've decided that Kobolds make the best mothers. I have a mother named Chlafagreenkins who gave birth to quintuplets, is carrying them all around, presumably taking care of them, and not even slowed down from her duties as a woodcutter.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Master Catfish on January 08, 2011, 05:02:56 pm
Quote from: DKS on January 08, 2011, 12:31:12 am
Well I've decided that Kobolds make the best mothers. I have a mother named Chlafagreenkins who gave birth to quintuplets, is carrying them all around, presumably taking care of them, and not even slowed down from her duties as a woodcutter.

Maybe they're good mothers, but from what I've seen they are terrible fathers.  I got a siege recently, and the mother of 5 died, but all of her babies survived and were left out in the woods.  The father had 'no job' and was sitting around ecstatic while his children died of thirst.

On another note; it seems that kobolds will happily drink water from warm biomes.  I have made numerous embarks, and had no trouble.  However, each time I embark on a temperate biome that has any ice, they refuse to drink (even if some of the river unfrozen).
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Lagotrope on January 08, 2011, 05:44:53 pm
The kobold mothers certainly are good at multitasking. Oddly it's usually not spread out among all kobold females, rather I just have a few that turn out to be baby making machines. No less than 6 babies in arm with a flock of pups following behind. I haven't seen it so much in 2010, but in 40d it always, always was from military kobolds who were legendary 'wrestlers.' In fact over time I had a special squad made for mothers since them going into combat would obliterate the next generation. But I ramble...

Yes, the water problem certainly seems to be something awry with DF as a whole rather than me screwing around with tags, so I'm not worrying about it too much and will just hope it'll be fixed soon for all those who enjoy freezing rivers.

As for sound, Catfish, I always had VOLUME:0 and SOUND:OFF, so I've no idea when it broke. In fact I was about ready to post that you need to change that stuff in init but to make sure I tested it myself, and indeed, it doesn't work for me either, so you're not the only one. However I've little idea why that is or how to fix it, but I'll test it with vanilla DF/older KC versions to see if I can't isolate the problem if not fix it.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: MijRai on January 09, 2011, 02:08:02 am
Does anyone have non-.RAR Kobold Camp? I want to try it, but I don't have the software to change the .RAR file.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Lagotrope on January 09, 2011, 01:10:12 pm
Quote from: MijRai on January 09, 2011, 02:08:02 am
Does anyone have non-.RAR Kobold Camp? I want to try it, but I don't have the software to change the .RAR file.

Google up winRAR. Despite the option to buy it, you can download and use it for free.

EDIT: Thank you Fay you're right, I utterly forgot about 7z and how it is preferable.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Fayrik on January 09, 2011, 01:16:27 pm
Or try 7z. They don't nag you for money every time you run the program.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Dutchling on January 09, 2011, 03:41:18 pm
Have you changed the amount of children bolds get compared to dwarves and their max age? It would be fun to play a fortress where everyone dies after 3 yeats or so.
I'm nor gonna play it anyway, I'm trying Genesis now. But I'm tempted :P
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Lagotrope on January 10, 2011, 02:52:36 pm
Quote from: Dutchling on January 09, 2011, 03:41:18 pm
Have you changed the amount of children bolds get compared to dwarves and their max age? It would be fun to play a fortress where everyone dies after 3 yeats or so.
I'm nor gonna play it anyway, I'm trying Genesis now. But I'm tempted :P

Indeed, the litter is 2-6, and they merely take 2 or 3 years from baby to adult.
I have noooo intention of making their lifespan only 3 years though, they live short enough as is it's almost depressing.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Fayrik on January 10, 2011, 04:00:58 pm
I've thought of this before... And only managed to come to a guess that Kobolds should probably live to about 20. I haven't tried it though, but in my current cavern/miniproject there are a lot of babies.
I think I might have to let the next forgotten beast run around for a bit first.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Lagotrope on January 10, 2011, 07:07:07 pm
Quote from: Fayrik on January 10, 2011, 04:00:58 pm
I've thought of this before... And only managed to come to a guess that Kobolds should probably live to about 20. I haven't tried it though, but in my current cavern/miniproject there are a lot of babies.
I think I might have to let the next forgotten beast run around for a bit first.

Yes, honestly, the idea of changing the life span never occurred to me till Dutch's post. I may bump it down, maybe not to 20, but honestly I don't often have any forts that last that long anyway so I don't know. If I live past the sieges, no surprise tantrum spirals annihilate me, then the steadily draining FPS does.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: MijRai on January 10, 2011, 07:39:38 pm
WinRAR worked fine, thank you. Now to make my warrens! as many blind corners and such as I can fit so enemy bowmen can't do too much. Hammer-dwarves will be the issue.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Horizonblue on January 17, 2011, 03:02:15 am
Bold Bump!
Also, what about kobold hurlers?  Just throw a barrage of crap at hand to keep the elves away?
Would be messy, but historical to watch.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Lagotrope on January 17, 2011, 05:55:14 pm
Quote from: Horizonblue on January 17, 2011, 03:02:15 am
Bold Bump!
Also, what about kobold hurlers?  Just throw a barrage of crap at hand to keep the elves away?
Would be messy, but historical to watch.

I'd love to be able to have throwing as kobold's repertoire of defense, and indeed throwing hammers wouldn't be 'fired' from throwing gloves if this were the case. Unfortunately throwing isn't something that DF's AI covers yet, so it's only mimics through a firing mechanism with a specific ammo assigned to it.

Believe me, I'd have done it by now if it were possible to make a soldier job that, upon seeing an enemy, grabs the nearest item and throw it. The elves would have an onslaught of tables, crafts, cats, barrels and other kobolds being thrown at them.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Bronze Dog on January 17, 2011, 06:14:41 pm
That is an awesome mental image, and it fits kobolds so well.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Verdian on January 19, 2011, 02:05:44 am
I think it would be great fun if a kobold's life span was short. 20 years or less, preferably. I'd like to see them live to around 7, 10 if they are lucky. It would change how you played the game a lot.

I would also like to request you start using Ironhand's graphic pack, because I think it has the most potential and looks very nice. It also seems to generally be at the cutting edge of all of the graphical update options.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Lofn on January 19, 2011, 05:48:26 am
I'm just finishing up my own variant of Kobold Camp, slightly simpler and (hopefully) closer to the way they are in vanilla DF.  Would you find it terribly insulting if I posted it in a thread?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Solifuge on January 19, 2011, 05:51:36 am
I'd actually like to see that. I tend to shy away from mods that tweak what seem to be the core concepts of the game too extensively.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Lagotrope on January 20, 2011, 08:11:04 pm
Quote from: Lofn on January 19, 2011, 05:48:26 am
I'm just finishing up my own variant of Kobold Camp, slightly simpler and (hopefully) closer to the way they are in vanilla DF.  Would you find it terribly insulting if I posted it in a thread?

Sure, when I think about it, I have implemented just about every concept thrown to me. As a result, it has become a far cry from the simpler days of 40d kobold camp.
In any case, KC in my eyes was always more an eye-of-the-beholder type mod rather than the work of a single person, so no, I'd actually like to see a variant KC to its own thread. Hell, I'll probably take a look at it myself.

Quote from: Verdian on January 19, 2011, 02:05:44 am
I think it would be great fun if a kobold's life span was short. 20 years or less, preferably. I'd like to see them live to around 7, 10 if they are lucky. It would change how you played the game a lot.

I would also like to request you start using Ironhand's graphic pack, because I think it has the most potential and looks very nice. It also seems to generally be at the cutting edge of all of the graphical update options.

I've begun toying around with the last few ideas since it does seem like it'll be awhile before we see a 31.19, compared to how quickly the versions would come prior. So, there likely will be a new version soon. That being said, I will certainly reduce the maxage of a kobold, but if I were to go so extreme as a 7-10 lifespan, I would likely up the littersize, or more likely reduce the time it takes to grow up.
The most I think about it though, the more that actually having old age as a cause of death rather than it happening pretty much never is a nice little element I think.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Fayrik on January 20, 2011, 08:15:21 pm
Quote from: Lagotrope on January 20, 2011, 08:11:04 pm
The most I think about it though, the more that actually having old age as a cause of death rather than it happening pretty much never is a nice little element I think.
Actually, that seems quite reasonable. It also reduces your change of ledgendary axebolds.

Quote from: Lagotrope on January 20, 2011, 08:11:04 pm
Quote from: Lofn on January 19, 2011, 05:48:26 am
I'm just finishing up my own variant of Kobold Camp, slightly simpler and (hopefully) closer to the way they are in vanilla DF.  Would you find it terribly insulting if I posted it in a thread?

Sure, when I think about it, I have implemented just about every concept thrown to me. As a result, it has become a far cry from the simpler days of 40d kobold camp.
In any case, KC in my eyes was always more an eye-of-the-beholder type mod rather than the work of a single person, so no, I'd actually like to see a variant KC to its own thread. Hell, I'll probably take a look at it myself.
Well, that sounds pretty cool, but, for clarity, could it have a slightly differing name? Kobold Cave perhaps? That way we can then tell between all the differing versions without having Kobold Camp X and Y version.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Lagotrope on January 21, 2011, 04:42:43 am
Quote from: Fayrik on January 20, 2011, 08:15:21 pm
Well, that sounds pretty cool, but, for clarity, could it have a slightly differing name? Kobold Cave perhaps? That way we can then tell between all the differing versions without having Kobold Camp X and Y version.

That's actually a good point. Another thought occurred to me (not a solution to that, mind you), Lofn, is I'm not sure how much development you plan on putting on yours in the future.

If it's something you continually add things to (which I doubt if it's simpler and more vanilla like), a new thread of yours may still be best.
However, if it's a standstill one-off that doesn't need a whole lot of discussion, I wouldn't mind splitting my first post up to give links and information to and of your version (with credit of course). I emphasize that I have no issues or offense taken with you if you start your own, but I figured I'd give you an option if you just wanted it to have a link in a thread rather than have it sit around on DFFD or wherever.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Kattaroten on January 25, 2011, 09:10:28 am
You´re supposed to be able to strip the wood stalks from the wood processor, right? I dont get the option...
And the stalks themselves.. Are you supposed to get them from plant gathering? I just do not get the tree farming bit...
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: BunnyMind on February 01, 2011, 07:10:38 pm
Kobold wood making is currently broken.
First, the seeds aren't set as one of the default embark options and you can't choose them from the embark screen, so [ITEM:5:SEEDS:NONE:PLANT_MAT:STALK_WOOD:SEED] needs to be added somewhere in embark_profiles.txt as there appears to be no other way to obtain the seeds.
Second is that wood stalk plants are actually subterranean plants and kobolds don't have the [INDOOR_FARMING] token which means that even if you added that line to embark_profiles.txt you still wouldn't be able to get the seeds, so wood stalk plants either need to be made outdoor plants (which I believe can be done by simply changing [BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_WATER] in plant_kobold.txt to [BIOME:NOT_FREEZING] and removing [UNDERGROUND_DEPTH:1:3]) or kobolds need to be given the [INDOOR_FARMING] token in their entry in entity.default.txt.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Lagotrope on February 02, 2011, 06:42:34 am
Quote from: Kattaroten on January 25, 2011, 09:10:28 am
You´re supposed to be able to strip the wood stalks from the wood processor, right? I dont get the option...
And the stalks themselves.. Are you supposed to get them from plant gathering? I just do not get the tree farming bit...

Quote from: BunnyMind on February 01, 2011, 07:10:38 pm
Kobold wood making is currently broken.
First, the seeds aren't set as one of the default embark options and you can't choose them from the embark screen, so [ITEM:5:SEEDS:NONE:PLANT_MAT:STALK_WOOD:SEED] needs to be added somewhere in embark_profiles.txt as there appears to be no other way to obtain the seeds.
Second is that wood stalk plants are actually subterranean plants and kobolds don't have the [INDOOR_FARMING] token which means that even if you added that line to embark_profiles.txt you still wouldn't be able to get the seeds, so wood stalk plants either need to be made outdoor plants (which I believe can be done by simply changing [BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_WATER] in plant_kobold.txt to [BIOME:NOT_FREEZING] and removing [UNDERGROUND_DEPTH:1:3]) or kobolds need to be given the [INDOOR_FARMING] token in their entry in entity.default.txt.

Oddly, I seem to recall testing this and seeing it work. The more I think about it, the more false memory this seems to be. So, among other things I'll begin working on, I'll make sure to get this working. Thanks for the tips, Bunny.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: DracoGriffin on February 02, 2011, 06:27:27 pm
Did Lofn ever post his version anywhere? I'm interested to see what changes he made.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Lagotrope on February 02, 2011, 08:28:01 pm
Quote from: DracoGriffin on February 02, 2011, 06:27:27 pm
Did Lofn ever post his version anywhere? I'm interested to see what changes he made.

I don't think Lofn has, no. It'll get mention here when it does I imagine, if not by Lofn then by me.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Lofn on February 03, 2011, 12:47:02 am
I'm currently trying to resolve some stubborn and rather unpleasant bugs, such as not being able to generate a world with a controllable civ in it.  I'll let you guys know if/when I fix it.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: DracoGriffin on February 17, 2011, 03:11:16 pm
Update for .19!

Hurry Lago! Your kobolds are dying in anticipation.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.14, for DF 31.18 last update 11/25)
Post by: Lagotrope on February 17, 2011, 03:20:38 pm
Holy geez finally 31.19, production is resumed double time. I've got most of what I wanted to implement sorted out (critter kitchen is buggy still. again.) and I'll mostly just be testing it for a bit. An update will come most likely tonight!

Edit: Alright I snipped off what I got and threw it all together for 31.19. Not as much as I'd like to without sufficient testing, but I simply don't have as much time on my hands as I'd like.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.19, for DF 31.19 last update 2/17)
Post by: Bronze Dog on February 18, 2011, 11:29:39 am
Just now found out about the update, and I'm glad to hear about ceramics being implemented. I'm getting visions of adobe villages with decorative pottery. I'll probably fire up a DF game after the new bugs get figured out so I can get used to the new industries, and then I'll try my hand at a bit of KC.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.19, for DF 31.19 last update 2/17)
Post by: DracoGriffin on February 21, 2011, 01:30:35 am
Trying to get into this but with Ironhand's graphics, it's been difficult.

I don't see anyone else having the issue but the colors must be off or something in these releases. On the embark screen, a lot of the tiles are quite dark/difficult to differentiate and bodies of water tend to be black tiles, especially lakes.

Any chance of a Mayday and Ironhand releases or perhaps more explanation with Ironhand's? And the description screen is full of objects instead of letters making it really difficult to understand.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.19, for DF 31.19 last update 2/17)
Post by: Deon on February 21, 2011, 05:57:42 am
Did you apply ironhand's colors.txt? Otherwise it's too dark.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.19, for DF 31.19 last update 2/17)
Post by: Lagotrope on February 21, 2011, 12:34:54 pm
Sweet jesus I know I fixed that. Apparently somewhere it was unfixed. And thank you Deon it likely would've been awhile till I remembered there was a colors.txt.

The colors are now fixed, though some tiles are still darkish, they're quite visible and not pitch-black. However, the text is still riddled with icons, and this is my primary complaint about Ironhand's graphics. I may reupload this again later with an alternate art/init folder for a different tileset for those who like to read legends.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.19, for DF 31.19 last update 2/17)
Post by: Squeak_Rustfur on February 22, 2011, 07:46:23 pm
No kobold civs are surviving more than a few years of world gen. Looking at the legends it appears they stave to death. Hazarding a guess that this is to do with them being carnivorous?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.19, for DF 31.19 last update 2/17)
Post by: Lagotrope on February 22, 2011, 09:29:32 pm
Very likely, yes. I'm not sure about the mechanics enough to fix it without changing key stuff like carnivorous, but since the focus is more on the dwarf mode, I'm not really worrying about it a whole lot.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.19, for DF 31.19 last update 2/17)
Post by: Dutchling on April 05, 2011, 02:08:16 pm
Is there any chance this mod will be upgraded anytime soon (few months)?
'Cause I would love to play as 'Bolds!
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.19, for DF 31.19 last update 2/17)
Post by: DaveLawson on April 08, 2011, 12:07:41 pm
I also heartily request an update!  Kobold Camp is definitely my favourite mod, and it's a crime that it can't be played with the new versions!
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.19, for DF 31.19 last update 2/17)
Post by: Jeoshua on April 08, 2011, 01:27:37 pm
Actually, I can vouch for the fact that they WILL run on 0.31.25 with minor modifications.  Biggest problem is Kobolds live in Caves.  This means that they cannot farm anything, and will starve.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.19, for DF 31.19 last update 2/17)
Post by: Lagotrope on April 12, 2011, 12:52:53 am
Oh! I've been so busy, I honestly forgot all about this. And geez, 6 versions since I last updated.

And it's up! Also, I just realized that yesterday was the 1 year anniversary of when I took up the kobold camp mod. Awesome. Anyways, as usual, it's mostly untested aside from making sure you can embark without obvious issues, so feel free to alert me to any issues during play and I'll throw them on the to-do list.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.19, for DF 31.19 last update 2/17)
Post by: Lovechild on April 12, 2011, 01:54:09 am
Quote from: Jeoshua on April 08, 2011, 01:27:37 pm
Actually, I can vouch for the fact that they WILL run on 0.31.25 with minor modifications.  Biggest problem is Kobolds live in Caves.  This means that they cannot farm anything, and will starve.
How about giving them [NO_EAT] and [NO_DRINK] while genning the world, and taking them away before you embark?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.25, for DF 31.25 last update 4/11)
Post by: drkpaladin on April 12, 2011, 02:45:27 am
Oh hell yeah, I've been waiting for this!  I love Kobold Camp, worldgen always extincts my Kobolds in vanilla.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.19, for DF 31.19 last update 2/17)
Post by: Jeoshua on April 12, 2011, 12:17:55 pm
Quote from: Lovechild on April 12, 2011, 01:54:09 am
How about giving them [NO_EAT] and [NO_DRINK] while genning the world, and taking them away before you embark?

That works good if you're just trying to get them running and not die.  But if you start a fort that lasts over 4 years, I'm pretty sure they die off again.  I could be wrong tho, I just make one kobold cave and make them nothing-vores like you mentioned above.  Breathatarian maybe.  Kobolds are weak and any excess numbers of them get killed off anyways, so leaving [BONECARN] on so they WANT to eat, and [NO_EAT] [NO_DRINK] so they don't NEED to ends up being good enough for me.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.25, for DF 31.25 last update 4/11)
Post by: Bronze Dog on April 12, 2011, 02:47:59 pm
I haven't played any recent version, so I'm ignorant of what the problem is, exactly.

Is it related to how food is handled in world gen, like ignoring hunting?
Would changing the kobold civ type so that they build towns instead of being cave dwellers affect things? Would town-dwelling kobolds build "farms" for use as hunting grounds?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.25, for DF 31.25 last update 4/11)
Post by: Blah on April 12, 2011, 04:11:10 pm
I have to say the aztec named weapons are really a stain on an otherwise nice mod.

Please consider replacing their names with something more familiar so we don't have to go and spend 5 minutes googling just trying to understand anything. And then re-googling because the names don't stick in our memory.

ie

Shortbow and Shortarrow
Spearthrower and Throwing Spear
Club

etc.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.25, for DF 31.25 last update 4/11)
Post by: Master Catfish on April 12, 2011, 07:56:00 pm
I have to agree with Blah.  It really doesn't add anything at all to use Aztec weapon names.  For me, trying to pronounce those words is like trying to spit out a mouthful of pine needles.  That, and I have no idea what they're describing without checking the readme regularly. 

I'm really fond of this mod otherwise. 
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.25, for DF 31.25 last update 4/11)
Post by: drkpaladin on April 13, 2011, 03:32:37 am
I honestly am not a fan of the aztec weapons either.  I think everyone gets the atlatl and throwing spears thats somewhat familiar to most people (at least who play dwarf fortress), but aside from that I'd be happier with 'slings' and 'shortbows'.  Maybe also throwing axes to complete the bashing/piercing/edged combination of ranged weapons.

Anyways, still love the mod, got my bolds going on a glacier with some kind of jungle oasis with fireclay running around in the middle of it, the river melts once a year so I can get a sheltered well going, luckily the glacier hasn't melted yet since they're living in the ice layer.  Its kind of funny that if I stockpile ice on fireclay it automatically melts, makes cleanup a breeze.  I see the ability to dig without restriction has been fixed though.

Edit: One small note on my game so far, is there supposed to be a caravan every couple months with a wave of migrants?  I never got this many playing dwarf mode, the liason takes my request and the caravan arrives very quickly later.  Am I just too close to the 'mountainhomes'  Oh btw, the kobolds call the capital the mountainhomes.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.25, for DF 31.25 last update 4/11)
Post by: Lagotrope on April 14, 2011, 09:04:56 pm
Complaints from aztecs are duly noted. When thought about it I can agree; the rest of the mod isn't aztecy enough to really merit the confusion over weapons which I can understand. Perhaps I'll leave a couple more specialty weapons in, but the basic stuff (swords, clubs, etc) will be changed to their more understood counterparts. I was half expecting complaints right off the bat, but figured they were okay when I heard nothing, leading to a bit of surprise they're piling on now.

Quote from: drkpaladin on April 13, 2011, 03:32:37 am
Edit: One small note on my game so far, is there supposed to be a caravan every couple months with a wave of migrants?  I never got this many playing dwarf mode, the liason takes my request and the caravan arrives very quickly later.  Am I just too close to the 'mountainhomes'  Oh btw, the kobolds call the capital the mountainhomes.

Yes, the active seasons for kobolds are, I believe, all 4, while dwarves are only one or two (this is what I recall, perhaps I'm forgetting how this works.) And yes, despite how easy it is to change races through modding, there are a few tidbits that still treats the game as though you're playing dwarves, namely through speech, so they still will say mountainhomes and stout people and what have you.

Otherwise, I'll try and actually test a few worldgens and play a couple forts and otherwise get off my ass about this.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.25, for DF 31.25 last update 4/11)
Post by: Jeoshua on April 14, 2011, 09:39:46 pm
I, for one, would like to thank you for the Aztec weapons.

They'll go nicely with a race of Aztech-types I'm modding in.

Also, thank you for taking it out of Kobold Camp, it really doesn't fit.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.25, for DF 31.25 last update 4/11)
Post by: Lagotrope on April 14, 2011, 10:22:44 pm
Alright, normally I wait longer when the changes are so small, but due to it seeming unanimous, I patched it to remove the aztecy names. Let me know if any problems came up because of it.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.25, for DF 31.25 last update 4/11)
Post by: Dutchling on April 15, 2011, 09:07:46 am
Thanks for the update!
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.25, for DF 31.25 last update 4/11)
Post by: NewsMuffin on April 16, 2011, 02:27:31 am
The weapon names have changed, which is nice, but when you go to craft them, it still says craft cuauhololli or whatever.
EDIT:
Checked the kobold reactions, and they're still called their aztec names, and there are no reactions for the new, non-aztec weaopns.
Also checked the kobold entity, and there are no permitted reactions for the non-aztec weapons, and the aztec ones are still there.

It has been proven that I can't make the change myself, because when I changed the reactions names, I got a sword when I tried to make a bow.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.252, for DF 31.25 last update 4/16)
Post by: Lagotrope on April 16, 2011, 05:18:16 am
Well that shows how rusty I am, I COMPLETELY forgot all about the reaction names. SO, here's another mini-patch, this time hopefully it works. I've no time to test this beyond no errorlog for a few days however, so as I always say, let me know if there's a problem again.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.252, for DF 31.25 last update 4/16)
Post by: Tanase on April 18, 2011, 10:00:37 am
I've noticed that my kobolds don't have the option to make clay jugs and the like. Anyone else having this problem or is there something I'm missing? I can have them gather clay at the kiln, but there is no option to make any pots/jugs there nor any option at the craftbold's workshop under stone.

Disregard. Found what was missing in the entities.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.252, for DF 31.25 last update 4/16)
Post by: Jeoshua on April 18, 2011, 04:59:29 pm
*Sigh*

Toady really needs to fix up cave civs so they can survive.

In adventure mode, I just ran across a Lair (mound and everything) filled to the brim with Kobolds.  By my estimation (and the blood on my blade afterward), there must have been at LEAST 500 of them.  It took hours to fight them all, even with a warrior who was Legendary in everything.  They should have been a tasty snack for whatever creature they took the cave from, but instead, due to the fact they don't need to eat, they were of such numbers to overwhelm whatever megabeast lived inside.

If they needed to eat, there probably would have been 20 of them, tops.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.252, for DF 31.25 last update 4/16)
Post by: Lagotrope on April 18, 2011, 09:03:03 pm
Quote from: Tanase on April 18, 2011, 10:00:37 am
I've noticed that my kobolds don't have the option to make clay jugs and the like. Anyone else having this problem or is there something I'm missing? I can have them gather clay at the kiln, but there is no option to make any pots/jugs there nor any option at the craftbold's workshop under stone.

Disregard. Found what was missing in the entities.


Actually, please tell. If it's something missing in KC, I'd very much like to know what's missing in the entity file.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.252, for DF 31.25 last update 4/16)
Post by: Tanase on April 19, 2011, 10:26:09 am
Quote from: Lagotrope on April 18, 2011, 09:03:03 pm
Actually, please tell. If it's something missing in KC, I'd very much like to know what's missing in the entity file.

In the entity_default.txt, the following needs to be after instruments and before clothing:
Code: [Select]
[TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_NEST_BOX]
[TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_JUG]
[TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_LARGE_POT]
[TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_HIVE]
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.252, for DF 31.25 last update 4/16)
Post by: Jeoshua on April 19, 2011, 01:25:02 pm
Yeah uh... I think you must have missed those tags when installing the mod... cause they're already in there for me.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.252, for DF 31.25 last update 4/16)
Post by: Lagotrope on April 20, 2011, 11:28:02 pm
Alright. 1.253 is up to add in those tags for pottery and the like, making 3 patches that should have all been in one. My apologies for continually making a new version each time I stick in a new tag, however, I'm 110% sure that this is the last thing I would care to add until porting to 31.26, whenever that may be.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 08, 2011, 06:34:54 pm
Looks interesting. Kobolds in these camps build kilns, right?

Also, how do kobolds deal with eggs? I've had...issues...with egg-laying critters in the past.

EDIT: Downloaded KC, copied the raws over, and got this (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4351) monster of an errorlog. (Oh, and DF froze up when I tried to gen a new world.) Specifically: Many minerals claimed to be unlocatable and [STALK_WOOD] also claimed to not recognise many plant tokens.
Did I do something wrong or is this mod f***ed up?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 10, 2011, 07:23:18 pm
This is a good mod. Bump, why not?

Plus, I'm hoping someone can answer my questions.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: drkpaladin on May 11, 2011, 05:02:22 am
With this mod, your pretty much unable to dig through stone.  If your real lucky, you might find some copper in a soil layer.  Last time I checked, you could still trade with the capital for the odd "iron bone armor".  But for the most part, your stuck with bone and wood weapons until the baddies drop something better.  I couldn't tell you about the tags in the raws though.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 11, 2011, 06:24:37 am
Quote from: drkpaladin on May 11, 2011, 05:02:22 am
With this mod, your pretty much unable to dig through stone.  If your real lucky, you might find some copper in a soil layer.  Last time I checked, you could still trade with the capital for the odd "iron bone armor".  But for the most part, your stuck with bone and wood weapons until the baddies drop something better.  I couldn't tell you about the tags in the raws though.
...Yeah, that's one of the things about this mod.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: Lagotrope on May 11, 2011, 09:04:42 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on May 08, 2011, 06:34:54 pm
Looks interesting. Kobolds in these camps build kilns, right?

Also, how do kobolds deal with eggs? I've had...issues...with egg-laying critters in the past.

EDIT: Downloaded KC, copied the raws over, and got this (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4351) monster of an errorlog. (Oh, and DF froze up when I tried to gen a new world.) Specifically: Many minerals claimed to be unlocatable and [STALK_WOOD] also claimed to not recognise many plant tokens.
Did I do something wrong or is this mod f***ed up?

Apologies for the late reply.
So, I attempted to recreate this myself thinking I may have messed up the RAWS .rar. However, upon re-downloading DF 31.25 and shoving the kobold ver 1.253 RAW zip inside, I didn't get that same error log (or one at all, for that matter). Nor does the pre-packaged KC yield anything for me.

However, based on your errorlog, it seems that the main problem is rooted in the template file (material_template_default.txt), as it's not finding the stone or, in the case of wood stalks, plant entry. I can't pinpoint it since I don't have your raws, but if I hazarded a guess, it'd be that your material_template_default.txt is different somehow.

Also, fraid I'm unsure about how kobolds mess with eggs, or really much of anything. I just haven't had the time to really sit down and make a good test-run of a fort recently, so I do little more than port to new versions and make sure that it at least gens a world alright.

Quote from: drkpaladin on May 11, 2011, 05:02:22 am
With this mod, your pretty much unable to dig through stone.  If your real lucky, you might find some copper in a soil layer.  Last time I checked, you could still trade with the capital for the odd "iron bone armor".  But for the most part, your stuck with bone and wood weapons until the baddies drop something better.  I couldn't tell you about the tags in the raws though.

As Wyrm said, that's basically the run of the mod, it's not easy mode.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 13, 2011, 04:39:25 pm
Quote from: Lagotrope on May 11, 2011, 09:04:42 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on May 08, 2011, 06:34:54 pm
Looks interesting. Kobolds in these camps build kilns, right?

Also, how do kobolds deal with eggs? I've had...issues...with egg-laying critters in the past.

EDIT: Downloaded KC, copied the raws over, and got this (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4351) monster of an errorlog. (Oh, and DF froze up when I tried to gen a new world.) Specifically: Many minerals claimed to be unlocatable and [STALK_WOOD] also claimed to not recognise many plant tokens.
Did I do something wrong or is this mod f***ed up?

Apologies for the late reply.
So, I attempted to recreate this myself thinking I may have messed up the RAWS .rar. However, upon re-downloading DF 31.25 and shoving the kobold ver 1.253 RAW zip inside, I didn't get that same error log (or one at all, for that matter). Nor does the pre-packaged KC yield anything for me.

However, based on your errorlog, it seems that the main problem is rooted in the template file (material_template_default.txt), as it's not finding the stone or, in the case of wood stalks, plant entry. I can't pinpoint it since I don't have your raws, but if I hazarded a guess, it'd be that your material_template_default.txt is different somehow.

Also, fraid I'm unsure about how kobolds mess with eggs, or really much of anything. I just haven't had the time to really sit down and make a good test-run of a fort recently, so I do little more than port to new versions and make sure that it at least gens a world alright.
Well, here (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4377) is the raws I used, and if I get KC to work I'll be a !!scien!!tist for your mod.
In my experience, all female egg-layers lay eggs sometimes, other kobolds carry them off but refuse to cook them, and even with eggs forbidden the female will wander off. Therefore, as long as kobolds lay eggs, chances are they'll have trouble with kids.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: Lagotrope on May 13, 2011, 08:12:23 pm
I looked through your raws for anything having to do with the issues in the errorlog, and they are the exact same as the raws that I have in the latest version.

I notice that you didn't include material_template_default, so I would assume that means that you haven't touched it. However, nearly all your errors are something like:
PYROLUSITE: Could not locate material template STONE_TEMPLATE
PITCHBLENDE: Could not locate material template STONE_TEMPLATE
BAUXITE: Could not locate material template STONE_TEMPLATE
(And <STONE>: Could not locate... goes on just about every one I could think of)
STONE_TEMPLATE is something found in material_template default, which is why I my first thought is that the issue is there.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 13, 2011, 08:37:56 pm
Quote from: Lagotrope on May 13, 2011, 08:12:23 pm
I looked through your raws for anything having to do with the issues in the errorlog, and they are the exact same as the raws that I have in the latest version.

I notice that you didn't include material_template_default, so I would assume that means that you haven't touched it. However, nearly all your errors are something like:
PYROLUSITE: Could not locate material template STONE_TEMPLATE
PITCHBLENDE: Could not locate material template STONE_TEMPLATE
BAUXITE: Could not locate material template STONE_TEMPLATE
(And <STONE>: Could not locate... goes on just about every one I could think of)
STONE_TEMPLATE is something found in material_template default, which is why I my first thought is that the issue is there.
I didn't touch any of it...nor did I remove anything.
Well...How the hell did I accidentally remove an entire section of the raws? I think I'm redownloading...
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: Lagotrope on May 14, 2011, 12:15:31 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on May 13, 2011, 08:37:56 pm
I didn't touch any of it...nor did I remove anything.
Well...How the hell did I accidentally remove an entire section of the raws? I think I'm redownloading...


The way you word that tells me that the files you gave in the zip you showed me were ALL the raws you were using. The raws-only file I supply only has the files that are either added or modified, but all the other raws that are untouched in vanilla DF are left out of the raw pack. It was made for people on linux who couldn't just download the windows version. Either way, through that route, you've got to add all the KC raws to an established raw folder with all the raws that KC doesn't touch.

If you're on windows, then it's best to just download the pre-packed version. http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2071 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2071)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 14, 2011, 01:56:20 pm
Quote from: Lagotrope on May 14, 2011, 12:15:31 am
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on May 13, 2011, 08:37:56 pm
I didn't touch any of it...nor did I remove anything.
Well...How the hell did I accidentally remove an entire section of the raws? I think I'm redownloading...


The way you word that tells me that the files you gave in the zip you showed me were ALL the raws you were using. The raws-only file I supply only has the files that are either added or modified, but all the other raws that are untouched in vanilla DF are left out of the raw pack. It was made for people on linux who couldn't just download the windows version. Either way, through that route, you've got to add all the KC raws to an established raw folder with all the raws that KC doesn't touch.

If you're on windows, then it's best to just download the pre-packed version. http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2071 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2071)
Well, that's how I screwed up!  :-[

EDIT: 7s claims that "KC31.25ver1.253\data\art\font.ttf" is "broken." Huh? EDIT^2: Nevermind, reredownloading fixed it. I really should be careful with my flash drive...

YETANOTHEREDIT: So far, so good; the hardest part is the graphics! Why didn't anyone mention that?
I mean, I knew there were graphics, but I didn't realise how much I was attatched to ASCII until I tried a graphics pack. I think I'll stick to my crappy display, thank you very much. (Not that I won't play KC, of course. Results of my nest box testing pending...although probably not good.

WOWI'MEDITINGALOTTOAVOIDDOUBLEPOSTING: Just started a fort camp. Slightly buggy. Here (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4384) is the save.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: Mudcrab on May 20, 2011, 09:19:11 pm
Id like to have a turn!

wrong topic...
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on May 22, 2011, 06:09:12 pm
Quote from: Mudcrab on May 20, 2011, 09:19:11 pm
Id like to have a turn!

wrong topic...
...Huh...
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: Dsarker on May 30, 2011, 05:38:27 am
Short bows have been named wrong in the item raw. Names are short bows:short bows, should be short bow:short bows
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: JackSlinger on May 31, 2011, 02:17:30 pm
First post FTW!

I've just installed the mod and I'm really liking it however I've come across a problem. I'm using the pre-packaged game and queued an order for a bone spear from the Scrimshawer workshop, I had a stack of 11 yak bones and to my annoyance they where all used making only one spear.  :(

I'm not sure whether this is a problem with the mod or DF, but does anyone know a way around it or better still a fix!  :)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: Lagotrope on May 31, 2011, 08:28:27 pm
Quote from: Dsarker on May 30, 2011, 05:38:27 am
Short bows have been named wrong in the item raw. Names are short bows:short bows, should be short bow:short bows

Fixed up, thank you. It'll be in proper singular form next release.

Quote from: JackSlinger on May 31, 2011, 02:17:30 pm
First post FTW!

A little late by about 10 pages, but good show.

Quote from: JackSlinger on May 31, 2011, 02:17:30 pm
I've just installed the mod and I'm really liking it however I've come across a problem. I'm using the pre-packaged game and queued an order for a bone spear from the Scrimshawer workshop, I had a stack of 11 yak bones and to my annoyance they where all used making only one spear.  :(

I'm not sure whether this is a problem with the mod or DF, but does anyone know a way around it or better still a fix!  :)

Unfortunately this, if memory serves, is an issue with general DF. It treats a stack of items as a single item for crafting purposes, and I don't recall a way to seperate the stacks. If there is a workaround, I'd love to know.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: JackSlinger on June 01, 2011, 06:12:10 am
My first post on these forums :P

If there was a way to split up the stack of bones that might be a workaround like you said, I hope a solution is found because when playing kobold every bone counts!

Slightly of topic if I abandon a fortress in dwarf mode can I then reclaim it playing as kobold? Hope so! :D

Edit: just found this
Quote
Elephant hides are worth a lot, and i would presume elephant bones would be too.  If you butcher an elephant you'll get one skin, one large stack of bones, plus other stuff.  Each bone can make 5 elephant bone bolts, or the entire stack of bones can be used to do a single decoration, because decorations consume the entire stack.  Absurd.

Now, throw the elephant off a 20z+ tower and let it land in a room with high walls.  The elephant will explode into pieces, and limbs will separate.  Each limb will be butchered separately.  The main body of the elephant will again give 1 skin and 1 stack of bones, but each limb butchered will also give 1 skin, a single bone, and at least 1 meat.  If you're butchering livestock for the leather or for bone decoration, by using the explosion method you've effectively increased your output by a factor of 5 per animal.

Far from perfect but might work I'll try it
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: Necro910 on June 02, 2011, 11:08:22 am
Due to the recent stir in Kobold Fandom, I'm downloading. I love these little guys ^-^

I'm going to make an execution tower, like Jack said. More meat for the Cutebolds :))
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: JackSlinger on June 02, 2011, 01:27:03 pm
Bean doing some science with a drop tower http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=85857.0 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=85857.0) the animals explode fine and i asume the body parts will rot to give bones. Unfortunatly the exploded parts of tame animals are not butcherable which can lead to trouble as kobolds can only eat meat. At some advice I was given i'm going to try and make it so kobold can eat and butcher everything but other kobold, which will be hard given my complete lack of dwarf fortress modding skills.

That should make the goblin ambushes more FUN especially for the goblins :P
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: Necro910 on June 02, 2011, 03:46:44 pm
What would be the best weapon to be made from bone? I heard bone spears are terrible, so I'm wondering what else is bad. I'm making a mace for now, but that's just because Kobold fists aren't exactly lethal.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: monk12 on June 02, 2011, 08:51:38 pm
Quote from: Necro910 on June 02, 2011, 03:46:44 pm
What would be the best weapon to be made from bone? I heard bone spears are terrible, so I'm wondering what else is bad. I'm making a mace for now, but that's just because Kobold fists aren't exactly lethal.

Bone everything is pretty terrible, honestly. My advice is archer spam.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on June 07, 2011, 08:08:23 pm
Quote from: JackSlinger on June 01, 2011, 06:12:10 am
My first post on these forums :P

If there was a way to split up the stack of bones that might be a workaround like you said, I hope a solution is found because when playing kobold every bone counts!

Slightly of topic if I abandon a fortress in dwarf mode can I then reclaim it playing as kobold? Hope so! :D

Edit: just found this
Quote
Elephant hides are worth a lot, and i would presume elephant bones would be too.  If you butcher an elephant you'll get one skin, one large stack of bones, plus other stuff.  Each bone can make 5 elephant bone bolts, or the entire stack of bones can be used to do a single decoration, because decorations consume the entire stack.  Absurd.

Now, throw the elephant off a 20z+ tower and let it land in a room with high walls.  The elephant will explode into pieces, and limbs will separate.  Each limb will be butchered separately.  The main body of the elephant will again give 1 skin and 1 stack of bones, but each limb butchered will also give 1 skin, a single bone, and at least 1 meat.  If you're butchering livestock for the leather or for bone decoration, by using the explosion method you've effectively increased your output by a factor of 5 per animal.

Far from perfect but might work I'll try it
It would still be nice if there was a reaction to turn small numbers of many stcks of bone into large numbers of small stacks of bones.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: Abregado on June 08, 2011, 09:19:26 pm
could put in "stone clubs and axes" from Quartzite gems. Other quartz like stones could be used to (Chert/Flint for course). Or even just make a Big Rock weapon to bash things with.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: Qwernt on June 10, 2011, 01:45:20 pm
So, where's the wiki?  I played kob's a long time ago, before all the new fangled weapons and shops... so I have NO idea what I can and can't do.  Example, I see wooden mechanisms.  Great!  Now, what are the other traps and how are they different from vanilla traps?  And the weapon descriptions.  And what from the standard shops is usuable and what isn't.  Example: I see you can make leather beds... does that mean you can't use normal wood ones or is it a player restriction type of a thing?
etc
etc
etc

I love the flavor though.  Unfortunately, orgeress ended the first Kamp, Harpies the second...  Got to find a nice gentle spot to settle down, haunted might be too difficult to start with.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: carabide on June 10, 2011, 03:27:20 pm
I agree with Qwernt, I was wondering if there would be a wiki made to help us newer kobold lovers to learn about the different sparkly toys you have given us.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: Qwernt on June 10, 2011, 05:04:44 pm
A few things I have learned:

Wood Stalks can be stripped to make logs (takes a 4 stalks to make 1 log) & Wood Stalks can be processed into blocks.  1 stalk for 1 block.

Wood Mechanisms are just like rock ones. Everything else from the trap show is a wooden weapon to put in a S(pear) trap.

Elves with swords own kobolds with bows.  Completely.  I enabled war training on all the buyable animals, and my war horses saved me.  Related note - Leather Bone Armor is about as good as it sounds... I assume this is why kobs are famous for their traps... time to build BIG traps.
Cage Traps don't always catch things (I assume this is a recent DF feature.  I had an elf run over a given cage trap 4 times before it caught him).  At least it looked like he ran past the trap line multiple times.

Embark somewhere with Clay and bring a rock or some clay for your first kiln.  Free clay walls are MUCH better than wooden ones. Wood becomes a priority resource.  And on that note, train farmers and bring LOTS of woodstalk seeds so that you can have large Wood Stalk farms.
More to follow...
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: carabide on June 10, 2011, 05:26:40 pm
Thanks! I have already started to feel the pressure from the lack of wood.
Btw, have you figured out how to get the throwing hammers to work? I have tried putting them in a squad, and attacking some random animals, but they just continue to try to melee them.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: Lagotrope on June 11, 2011, 11:48:55 am
Quote from: Qwernt on June 10, 2011, 01:45:20 pm
So, where's the wiki?  I played kob's a long time ago, before all the new fangled weapons and shops... so I have NO idea what I can and can't do.  Example, I see wooden mechanisms.  Great!  Now, what are the other traps and how are they different from vanilla traps?  And the weapon descriptions.  And what from the standard shops is usuable and what isn't.  Example: I see you can make leather beds... does that mean you can't use normal wood ones or is it a player restriction type of a thing?
etc
etc
etc

I love the flavor though.  Unfortunately, orgeress ended the first Kamp, Harpies the second...  Got to find a nice gentle spot to settle down, haunted might be too difficult to start with.

I'd question the worth of a wiki, but that is a fair point that I have added enough in that not everything is obvious. There is information in the readme about the different buildings, but I'll try and make it more detailed in future versions. To answer most of your given questions: Most of the new traps are primarily flavor, but the actual application doesn't change from vanilla; it boils down to make a trap and cram it full of weapon traps. Quantity being more important than quality I've found (not a promise.)

And yes, you can make leather beds but also wood beds, as since wood is so valuable I made leather beds available so that one wouldn't have to use wood on it.

All in all, I've tried to make this mod to minimize the amount of self-restraint the player would have to do; i.e. making much stone unmineable as opposed to 40d, where if kobolds couldn't mind the player just had to avoid rock.

The weapons, however, are a weak point. It wasn't like 40d where you say "this is how big the weapon is, and this is how much damage it does." To date I just haven't had a good grasp on weapon balance, as the traits were never clear to me how they interact with each other.

Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on June 07, 2011, 08:08:23 pm
It would still be nice if there was a reaction to turn small numbers of many stcks of bone into large numbers of small stacks of bones.

It would, but there's no way I can tell to make it accurate; that is, no way a reaction can tell how many bones are in a stack. Therefore, if I did such a reaction, chances are either you'd get more bones than you gave, or got less bones than given. I'm hoping that Toady will address stack issues before too long.

Quote from: carabide on June 10, 2011, 05:26:40 pm
Thanks! I have already started to feel the pressure from the lack of wood.
Btw, have you figured out how to get the throwing hammers to work? I have tried putting them in a squad, and attacking some random animals, but they just continue to try to melee them.

Last I checked using projectiles generally worked, but sometimes military did still have bugs I found, such as arming kobolds with sword and shield, then they toss their sword away and start bashing things with their shields. So, I can't say it's not a glitch, but to double check, there's actually two components to throwing hammers.
DF as I recall doesn't support military actually -throwing- items, therefore, to make throwing hammers useable, I had to implement throwing gloves. This works in the same manner is a bow and arrow; where the throwing gloves act as the "firing mechanism" and the throwing hammers act as the ammo. If you are arming them with the throwing gloves and they're just hitting animals with that in melee, then chances are it's glitched and unfortunately you may be best off using a different weapon.

Quote from: Qwernt on June 10, 2011, 05:04:44 pm
A few things I have learned:

Wood Stalks can be stripped to make logs (takes a 4 stalks to make 1 log) & Wood Stalks can be processed into blocks.  1 stalk for 1 block.

Wood Mechanisms are just like rock ones. Everything else from the trap show is a wooden weapon to put in a S(pear) trap.

Elves with swords own kobolds with bows.  Completely.  I enabled war training on all the buyable animals, and my war horses saved me.  Related note - Leather Bone Armor is about as good as it sounds... I assume this is why kobs are famous for their traps... time to build BIG traps.
Cage Traps don't always catch things (I assume this is a recent DF feature.  I had an elf run over a given cage trap 4 times before it caught him).  At least it looked like he ran past the trap line multiple times.

Embark somewhere with Clay and bring a rock or some clay for your first kiln.  Free clay walls are MUCH better than wooden ones. Wood becomes a priority resource.  And on that note, train farmers and bring LOTS of woodstalk seeds so that you can have large Wood Stalk farms.
More to follow...

Haven't tested KC much beyond making sure it actually works, so I'm glad that clay is working as it should apparently. All in all, quite good advice. And yes, I doubt the cage traps not working is a KC thing, so chances are it's a vanilla feature. As for elves with swords owning kobolds with bows.. well, bows and arrows aren't the unstoppable deadly force they were in 40d so I'm not surprised. It does go in with building traps; there's no shame in making a single, long hallway filled to the brim with traps; indeed that's very likely the only way to survive for long periods. Very rare is the camp (past 40d anyway) that I've had a kobold military that can go toe to toe with enemy sieges.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: thatkid on June 13, 2011, 04:55:18 pm
Hey guys, I saw that the altar had no reactions or anything of that sort so I decided to make a small ritual process. With these tokens, the Kobold's spiritual leaders (those who work Alchemy) will now be able to construct fetishes with which they can enact short heathen rituals to their various gods. In response, the deities may smile on them by giving them useless gems and trinkets, an obsidian boulder with which to arm themselves, or perhaps something even better. Alternatively, the latent magic of the ritual may consume the fetish without granting any items, or the Gods may grow tired of constantly being annoyed and, depending on their mood, smite the Kobold with a long-lasting curse of varying strength.

Put these in a reaction folder:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Put these in an inorganic folder:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Also, add this to the entity files:
[PERMITTED_REACTION:BONE_FETISH]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:WOOD_FETISH]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:A_RITUAL]

Optionally, you can also add something like [PROFESSION_NAME:ALCHEMIST:lesser shaman:lesser shamans] to the kobold creature entry for flavor.

I haven't had much time to test it out yet, but it should be working as intended. I also have yet to witness any of the curses, so I'm not entirely sure how debilitating they really are (I'm guessing smiteded is basically an instant-kill, but even if it's not it should be a little horrific anyways). I'm also a little worried that it will cause kobolds to have access to cotton candy armor in worldgen, but I haven't seen it happen yet. As well, the probabilities look right but one can never be sure. Hopefully I made it dangerous enough an undertaking that spamming rituals in the hopes of getting candy isn't actually worth the loss of kobold. If anyone comes up with better ideas for products -and/or- probabilities, feel free to add them in/make alterations. These reactions are pretty much out of my hands at this point.

(Props to narhiril over at Forlorn Realms for inspiring my little foray into reactions, as well as Patchouli in the same thread who along with narhiril explained how to go about doing this sort of thing)

As a side note, you currently need 2 bone OR 2 wood, and 3 hair as well as a totem (made from a skull at the crafts shop) in order to fashion a fetish.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: Dsarker on June 14, 2011, 07:44:54 am
That looks really good, thanks for that!

Edit: should "smiteded" be "smited"?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: DarkThug on June 14, 2011, 05:46:45 pm
This mod is awesome !! I love running my litle doggie camp against the world.
I, however, suffer similar problem with Qwernt. I'm still not sure what is what.
While a full wiki site may be abit overkill. More detailed readme would be greatly appreciate.
Like what have you changed in this mod. How kobold behave differently than Dwarf. What abilitiy/building is removed/added included those you get from other mod.

For now I will just throw in my questions here :)

Religion : So there is an altar workshop, but what does it do exactly ? I saw many mod mention religion as well, but I still have no idea what is its function since this it the 1st DF mod I try (cuz it sound neatest of all :p). My guess is that religion&altar in KC is currently in simply for flavor without any function ?

Sawmill : I saw Qwernt mentioned that we can turn 1 WoodStalk into 1 block. I can't seem to find the way to this. I can only turn 4 stalk into 1 log and then a log into 2 blocks. So, 2 stalk for 1 block. Did I miss something ?
Also, It seem that stripping stalks into a log doesn't leave behind stalk's seed. If that is the case, How can I make sustainial tree farm ? since I will need to rely on caravan's Woodstalk bulb.

Metalwork : Readme file suggest that Kobold can turn metal into weapon without smelting it into bar. Is that take place in Metalshaper and Armory ? I ordered some Tetrahedrite and Malachite from caravan but a copper weapon order in armory still red out. I can turn gold/silver ino trinkets fine but, somehow, I can't build a gold statue. Kobold will never ever able to deal with iron do they ?? ^^"

Soap : So what's up with soap ? Soap's workshop is nowhere in workshop's list. the usual b --> w --> S become Scrimshawer. Is soap industry removed from the game ? But my Kobold still get infected like normal. What can I do about it ? Or I just take it like a kobold.

Food : I get it now that Kobold is canivore. But do they eat egg ? Should I cook it as is or wait until it's hatch before slaughter it. What about milk ? Kobolds are still a mammal, aren't they ? ^^"

Looting : So some baddies start showing up. then I start killing them, looting them. But It seem that kobold can't equip boot ,glove ,cloak ,leather armor ? (yet to get my hand on breastplate) I believe this reduce a whole lot of favour from this mod. You loot all kind of equipment from invaders.....just to sell it ?? My elite axebold deserve a full set of plate and a shield together with batle axe if he survive that long.
Is it because bone armor and legguard ? are those two shape armor ??
I am still not sure what a kobold can and can't equip. I know they can't use a great axe (make sense, it may be way to big for a kobold) what about other weapon ? for example, a pike, can they use it ?
My kobold seem to be able to equip a bow just fine but is it diferent than a shortbow ? Can it use short arrow as ammunition ? Likewise, Can shortbow use regular arrow ??
I know that a bow use sword skill in melee. What about other thrown weapon ? Spear thrower and throwing glove, do they use spear/hammer skill in melee or unarmed one ??

Trading : Lastly I can't find the way to trade individual item in a container. I am not sure if it's this mod thing or DF thing and where to change its setting. It start to get annoying overtime that I can't sell a great axe but not other 9 chopper in that weapon bin of mine.

Construction : I didn't notice it in vanilla DF but can ash/potash be used as building material ? I discovered that burning vermins for ashes is another good way to obtain building materials (doesn't make any sense to me at all though lol)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: Dsarker on June 14, 2011, 07:12:47 pm
As far as I know, kobolds are reptiles.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: jetex1911 on June 14, 2011, 08:33:10 pm
Quote from: Dsarker on June 14, 2011, 07:12:47 pm
As far as I know, kobolds are reptiles.

They can be whatever you prefer.
I perfer the Doggy kind.  :P
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: Qwernt on June 14, 2011, 11:24:46 pm
answers/comments
Regarding the stalk->block reaction.  Did your woodworker shop have 2 reactions?  the second is the 4 stalks to 1 log.  The first is the stalk->block.
Not sure yet if kobs eat eggs, I was just letting the birds grow up and then slaughter (of course I have yet to have a camp make it that long).


Now for my quesiton
What happened to my enourmous screws?  I can't seem to make them... and without screws how can I build my massive traps???
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)I lost like 50 or
Post by: DarkThug on June 15, 2011, 01:46:50 am
Ability to build screw would mean ability to build water pump right ? Not to Koboldish if you ask me :p
For me who isn't that trap oriented, I don't have enough wood as it is I don't think I can spare any wood to build decent trap anytime soon. May be some weapon trap with looted weapon but that is it.

Yes, my wood processor does have 2 reaction. However, the 1st one is for turning 1 log not 1 stalk into 2 blocks sadly.

My current camp is in its 4th years. It just (barely) survives 3 consecutive seiges. Those damn goblins attack me me continuously through out my 3rd winter. My kobold fought valiantly without any trap and successfully fend off three goblin waves. not without a cost tho
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I lost like 40 or so Kobolds in this odeal with 30 more wounded. Out of my 24 remaining children 11 is destined to meet their doom in the near future with their mother death or too depress to come out and eat. (got to love how large their families are) Only a third of my camp able to perform any real function right now. Even my witchdoctor caught it in his guts and lie conciouslessly in his bed. I just name a random peasant to take his place together with some craftmen who somehow dabling in any medical field. We will see how many Kobold succumb to the infection. If my camp live long enough to see that day ^^"

The real problem, however, is that it is now summer. Seem like I missed my spring caravan during all these fighting. If the 4th siege come before I get supplies from summer caravan, my camp may be finished. I just emptied out my supply of arrow during last siege. I deforested the entire map long time ago. I initially have 8x20 woodstalk farm going on. but somehow all seeds are vanished. I never let any Kobold cook nor brew any woodstalk either.

I don't know about reptile kobold, but judging from description, DF kobold is definitely a doggy one :)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: Dsarker on June 15, 2011, 04:17:38 am
I'm thinking more of the d&d kobolds, which definitely ARE trap oriented. Look up Tucker's kobolds.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: Lagotrope on June 15, 2011, 04:44:46 pm
Quote from: DarkThug on June 14, 2011, 05:46:45 pm
This mod is awesome !! I love running my litle doggie camp against the world.
I, however, suffer similar problem with Qwernt. I'm still not sure what is what.
While a full wiki site may be abit overkill. More detailed readme would be greatly appreciate.
Like what have you changed in this mod. How kobold behave differently than Dwarf. What abilitiy/building is removed/added included those you get from other mod.

For now I will just throw in my questions here :)

Religion : So there is an altar workshop, but what does it do exactly ? I saw many mod mention religion as well, but I still have no idea what is its function since this it the 1st DF mod I try (cuz it sound neatest of all :p). My guess is that religion&altar in KC is currently in simply for flavor without any function ?

Sawmill : I saw Qwernt mentioned that we can turn 1 WoodStalk into 1 block. I can't seem to find the way to this. I can only turn 4 stalk into 1 log and then a log into 2 blocks. So, 2 stalk for 1 block. Did I miss something ?
Also, It seem that stripping stalks into a log doesn't leave behind stalk's seed. If that is the case, How can I make sustainial tree farm ? since I will need to rely on caravan's Woodstalk bulb.

Metalwork : Readme file suggest that Kobold can turn metal into weapon without smelting it into bar. Is that take place in Metalshaper and Armory ? I ordered some Tetrahedrite and Malachite from caravan but a copper weapon order in armory still red out. I can turn gold/silver ino trinkets fine but, somehow, I can't build a gold statue. Kobold will never ever able to deal with iron do they ?? ^^"

Soap : So what's up with soap ? Soap's workshop is nowhere in workshop's list. the usual b --> w --> S become Scrimshawer. Is soap industry removed from the game ? But my Kobold still get infected like normal. What can I do about it ? Or I just take it like a kobold.

Food : I get it now that Kobold is canivore. But do they eat egg ? Should I cook it as is or wait until it's hatch before slaughter it. What about milk ? Kobolds are still a mammal, aren't they ? ^^"

Looting : So some baddies start showing up. then I start killing them, looting them. But It seem that kobold can't equip boot ,glove ,cloak ,leather armor ? (yet to get my hand on breastplate) I believe this reduce a whole lot of favour from this mod. You loot all kind of equipment from invaders.....just to sell it ?? My elite axebold deserve a full set of plate and a shield together with batle axe if he survive that long.
Is it because bone armor and legguard ? are those two shape armor ??
I am still not sure what a kobold can and can't equip. I know they can't use a great axe (make sense, it may be way to big for a kobold) what about other weapon ? for example, a pike, can they use it ?
My kobold seem to be able to equip a bow just fine but is it diferent than a shortbow ? Can it use short arrow as ammunition ? Likewise, Can shortbow use regular arrow ??
I know that a bow use sword skill in melee. What about other thrown weapon ? Spear thrower and throwing glove, do they use spear/hammer skill in melee or unarmed one ??

Trading : Lastly I can't find the way to trade individual item in a container. I am not sure if it's this mod thing or DF thing and where to change its setting. It start to get annoying overtime that I can't sell a great axe but not other 9 chopper in that weapon bin of mine.

Construction : I didn't notice it in vanilla DF but can ash/potash be used as building material ? I discovered that burning vermins for ashes is another good way to obtain building materials (doesn't make any sense to me at all though lol)

Religion: The altar at the moment does not have any reactions officially, as I put that in with intention to have a purpose but somehow managed to forget. thatkid has added in set of reactions and the like, and I will be adopting that (as well as making some additional ones) next release.

Sawmill: Seems like the sawdust mod bit has been addressed so I won't dwell on it; but the seeds seem to be an issue, apparently getting seeds back either was overlooked or isn't working. I'll address this as well for next release, ideally aimed at a :slight: dimishing return, so one would have to keep on eye on them in the caravan to keep a respectable farm going year round. Or maybe screw it and let giant farms run rampant.

Metalworking: This is -very- limited; while they can turn copper/gold whatever ORE into products, they can't work with malachite or any of those other things you turn into bars. I'll look over them and see how they work in practice, and while it is meant to be very limited, I'll change stuff if it doesn't make any sense as is.

Soap: I'll look into this newfangled 'soap' thing I've been hearing about. Till then, take it like a kobold.

Food: that's a good question. I do know they'll eat cooked food that had at least a little meat mixed in it (last I checked), but I don't know about eggs or milk. (Mention of what kobolds are are at the bottom of post.)

Looting: This is an idea I should investigate. At the moment it is true that you can't just pick up anything; due to sizes. That is, the breastplate of a human is just too big for a kobold to wear. It makes sense, as far as realism goes, but it is true that this does make it quite hard, and that you actually withstanding a siege goes unrewarded. I may test reactions to change any article of clothing (intended for large ones) into 'salvaged' versions of the same thing that kobolds can wear and use.

Trading: That is odd. Again, been awhile since I checked, but last I did each container listed all the seperate items (designated with an indentation to show it belongs to a container) that you could check off. Another point that I have -got- to do a thorough test play.

Building: Although I rarely play vanilla DF, I'm confident that the whole ash building thing is part of that. Strange, but I believe it's hardcoded and thus it'll be part of this mod as well. Someone correct me if this is wrong.

Quote from: Qwernt on June 14, 2011, 11:24:46 pm
Now for my quesiton
What happened to my enourmous screws?  I can't seem to make them... and without screws how can I build my massive traps???
Odd, that. I can't remember if enormous screws were ever available, or if access was lost somewhere along the new versions. Again, will test this, and if it seems it's impossible to make then I'll make a special reaction to do so. It is true what DarkThug mentions, at least to my agreeance, that water pumps are a bit out of the scope of what I imagine kobolds to manage, but I forget what else you need for a water pump. But while massive traps are awesome and allthat, I believe that massing on weaker traps can be just as effective in over quanitity. As usual, correct if wrong.


As for what the kobolds in KC are.. well, I don't have any images off hand, but google 'cutebold'. Actually, maybe don't. Point is they're cutesy dog like things with floppy ears. With all the d&d trapness of kobolds that Dsarker mentions, without any of the scaly bits. I believe their anatomy has been changed in the raws to reflect this.

This is different from DF vanilla kobolds, however. While I don't remember where this was quoted, I do remember Toady mentioning that kobolds were a sort of cross; with both mammalian and reptile traits.

This will be reflected as well in the next version; even when all else is mammalian, I do prefer the idea of kobolds laying eggs. This I'll -need- to test, as I hear that having a civ race that lays eggs can be problematic.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: Dsarker on June 15, 2011, 06:24:17 pm
Some mammals do lay eggs.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: thatkid on June 15, 2011, 06:29:59 pm
Quote from: Dsarker on June 15, 2011, 06:24:17 pm
Some mammals do lay eggs.
(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb286/derkaderka08/Platypus_Fullpic_1.gif)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: Dsarker on June 15, 2011, 07:58:43 pm
Other too, but platypus are the weirdest creatures EVAR. They have ten chromosomes, they are the only mammal to have poison, they SWEAT milk.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: Lagotrope on June 15, 2011, 09:18:57 pm
Oh yes, and echidna's too lay eggs, by no means was I saying that giving kobolds the ability to lay eggs was unseen in the real world.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: DarkThug on June 15, 2011, 10:23:16 pm
Metalworking : The problem is there is no copper nugget to be requested from liaison/embark screen. Unless your map has (reachable) native copper vein, this building will be useless. Even if you discover tetrahedrite vein the ore you mined will be tretahedrite stone thus can't be use in reaction. I suggest expand the reaction to cover tetrahedrite and malachite as well.

Soap : Got it, I will take it like a kobold.

Food : I will try keep an eye on my egg roast supply. I have come to my own conclusion though that I should wait til they hatch for more bone and leather.

Looting : I didn't hope for my kobold to use human-size large breastplate. I was hoping that I could at least use small size gears looted from goblin/elf/dwarf. Does the game handle Kobold as smaller being than a dwarf ? I am ok with workshop that change loot into savage version but DF Kobold (as least in vanilla) was famous for being thief race. That's why I imagine them to be able to use stolen gear as is.

Trading : yep it's wierd. I believe this to be DF issue rather than KC issue. The problem is I can't find where to change the setting or when/where I mess it up. Hope someone can enlight me.

Build : I meant the whole ash thing is currently in KC.It is just that I never noticed it in vanilla since all the stones/log/block will pile up several 1st pages. And I found it odd that I can build the whole archer tower from vermin ash lol

Although I do miss watching a kobold mom carrying her 12 children around with her. The idea of kobold laying egg sound interesting, but how will it work in-game exactly ? Will the mother carry her eggs around with her ? (then what is a point ? ^^") Will she leave them in her badroom ? or hallway :p ?? or will she need nestbox ??? do we have to make room out of them ????
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: Lagotrope on June 16, 2011, 04:56:30 am
Quote from: DarkThug on June 15, 2011, 10:23:16 pm
Metalworking : The problem is there is no copper nugget to be requested from liaison/embark screen. Unless your map has (reachable) native copper vein, this building will be useless. Even if you discover tetrahedrite vein the ore you mined will be tretahedrite stone thus can't be use in reaction. I suggest expand the reaction to cover tetrahedrite and malachite as well.

Soap : Got it, I will take it like a kobold.

Food : I will try keep an eye on my egg roast supply. I have come to my own conclusion though that I should wait til they hatch for more bone and leather.

Looting : I didn't hope for my kobold to use human-size large breastplate. I was hoping that I could at least use small size gears looted from goblin/elf/dwarf. Does the game handle Kobold as smaller being than a dwarf ? I am ok with workshop that change loot into savage version but DF Kobold (as least in vanilla) was famous for being thief race. That's why I imagine them to be able to use stolen gear as is.

Trading : yep it's wierd. I believe this to be DF issue rather than KC issue. The problem is I can't find where to change the setting or when/where I mess it up. Hope someone can enlight me.

Build : I meant the whole ash thing is currently in KC.It is just that I never noticed it in vanilla since all the stones/log/block will pile up several 1st pages. And I found it odd that I can build the whole archer tower from vermin ash lol

Although I do miss watching a kobold mom carrying her 12 children around with her. The idea of kobold laying egg sound interesting, but how will it work in-game exactly ? Will the mother carry her eggs around with her ? (then what is a point ? ^^") Will she leave them in her badroom ? or hallway :p ?? or will she need nestbox ??? do we have to make room out of them ????

Metal: Although it was intended to be simple and tetra/etc was intentionally left out, when I think about it, it does make little sense to be able to use copper/etc but not smelt tetrahedrite. I'll add in reactions, but the stone itself, along with most other stone, will remain unmineable, as I still intend on metal usage being very hard.

Looting: As I recall, kobolds are indeed smaller than the goblin/dwarf counterparts. Using humans was a bad example from me. Unfortunately there isn't some fashion to make gear useable as is without reactions; except possibly changing around sizes of creatures which I'll experiment with without making vast changes.

As for eggs, that's why I definitely require testing, as I don't know how they'll act with eggs. As much as I too will miss 12 pups following a mom with 12 babies, kobold population is very important givin how weak they are, and such a thing can be pretty devastating if the mother meanders about during, say, siege time. Even if she does carry the eggs though I would still probably do it, as a flavor sort of thing more than any practical point.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: Qwernt on June 16, 2011, 11:51:17 am
Regarding:

Stalk Wood Bulbs - Have the Stalk -> Log produce only 1 bulb.  This way a good grower can keep farming but an unexperienced one will cost you.  OR, have it produce a part a bulb (similar to smelting).  This would force you to brew them once in a while to insure you have seed (the current solution).

No big traps???? what are you elves??? ;^).  I modded back in the corkscrew.  I just don't see little kobolds not having BIG traps to defend themselves.  AND yes, I know a bunch of normal weapon traps work just find (especially when they are surrounded by a drop into magma), but I like the challenge of building.  That said, if you have a technology goal in mind, why do you still allow kobs to have glass?  That seems like a fairly high technology (though I do like the fact that it is there, allows 3 non wood build choices: glass, clay, bicks).

Building with Ash is a DF vanilla feature.  Same with the ability to build with soap.  I think it might even be fire proof, which would mean you don't need to bring a stone to still collect clay.


Trading, can you search for the Great Axe in the trade window?

Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: Lagotrope on June 16, 2011, 12:06:08 pm
Quote from: Qwernt on June 16, 2011, 11:51:17 am
Regarding:

Stalk Wood Bulbs - Have the Stalk -> Log produce only 1 bulb.  This way a good grower can keep farming but an unexperienced one will cost you.  OR, have it produce a part a bulb (similar to smelting).  This would force you to brew them once in a while to insure you have seed (the current solution).

No big traps???? what are you elves??? ;^).  I modded back in the corkscrew.  I just don't see little kobolds not having BIG traps to defend themselves.  AND yes, I know a bunch of normal weapon traps work just find (especially when they are surrounded by a drop into magma), but I like the challenge of building.  That said, if you have a technology goal in mind, why do you still allow kobs to have glass?  That seems like a fairly high technology (though I do like the fact that it is there, allows 3 non wood build choices: glass, clay, bicks).

Building with Ash is a DF vanilla feature.  Same with the ability to build with soap.  I think it might even be fire proof, which would mean you don't need to bring a stone to still collect clay.


Trading, can you search for the Great Axe in the trade window?

As I mention, I'll be looking into the whole enormous corkscrew business and fix it someway, because they're supposed to have such traps, technological or not.
As for glass, it's mostly because, at the time where that was on the mind, I either couldn't remove it because it was hardcoded in (as many of the basic buildings and their purposes are), or because I couldn't without screwing up other critical things. Case in point, I'm pretty sure that removing any one job from a skill family will remove the *whole* skill family, though this may have been fixed. Glass will still be around anyway though; even if it doesn't make sense from a tech tree standard, we're talking about cute dog people making ginormous traps, and if you don't like it.. then that's cool, nothin stopping you from modding the whole thing, least of all me.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: DarkThug on June 19, 2011, 05:41:23 pm
Metal : So that mean even I found tetrahedrite on my map I won't be able to mine it anyway right ? In that case, rather than making metalshaper useable with tetrahedrite, The better solution may be eneble copper or in liaison request / embark screen. I hope that does not make Kobold's life too easy.

Loot : I see. but it's wield that I can loot and use Goblin's loincloth/tunic as is but not glove/boot etc. They don't have large tag either unlike troll's one.

I also stumble across a few bugs these last few days (or are these intentional ?? lol)

Every Kobold merchant seem to be master class thief. When they are chased by Goblins, they will unlock each and every layers of my locked door, leading invader force right into the heart of  my camp.

Whenever I try to attack caravan right after my bowbold shoot at them they will turn and shoot at each other instead. My civilian will join in as well. It's like everyone is shooting at everyone. Put an end to my camp lol.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: Lagotrope on June 19, 2011, 10:33:54 pm
Quote from: DarkThug on June 19, 2011, 05:41:23 pm
Metal : So that mean even I found tetrahedrite on my map I won't be able to mine it anyway right ? In that case, rather than making metalshaper useable with tetrahedrite, The better solution may be eneble copper or in liaison request / embark screen. I hope that does not make Kobold's life too easy.

Loot : I see. but it's wield that I can loot and use Goblin's loincloth/tunic as is but not glove/boot etc. They don't have large tag either unlike troll's one.

I also stumble across a few bugs these last few days (or are these intentional ?? lol)

Every Kobold merchant seem to be master class thief. When they are chased by Goblins, they will unlock each and every layers of my locked door, leading invader force right into the heart of  my camp.

Whenever I try to attack caravan right after my bowbold shoot at them they will turn and shoot at each other instead. My civilian will join in as well. It's like everyone is shooting at everyone. Put an end to my camp lol.

Metal: Really, copper -should- be enabled with merchants, I'll look into if I can make it happen without having kobold civilizations actually make copper. Though it shouldn't be imbalanced regardless, as they'll only show up with so much copper each season. Even if I did still add in tetrahedrite to reactions in the metalshaper, since you can't mine it still it likely wouldn't make a big difference.

Loot:That is strange actually, I'm not sure why that is.

As for bugs.. I'm not sure why kobold merchants seem to be master thieves. I'll see about it, no promises though.
And for the attacking caravan.. is it a KOBOLD caravan? If that's the case, then what you likely got going was an old fashioned faction cascade. Or whatever it was called, I can't remember. Let's see if I remember how this works right: The caravan and your kobolds are likely part of the same civilization- so if one kobold whacks another, that kobold, we'll call him Jrifus, becomes an enemy of the civilization. Naturally, other kobolds attack him. Jrifus, however, is still considered to be part of the civilization. So when Chreebus comes over and whaps him across the head, Chreebus, despite Jrifus's enemy state, ALSO becomes an enemy. And also still part of the civilization. So when Trilbus, Cheekin and Plilkus all attack those two.. it starts becoming the battle royale you describe.

Don't attack your own caravan.
If it wasn't a kobold caravan, then I have no idea.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: DarkThug on June 19, 2011, 11:50:41 pm
Aye, It was KOBOLD caravan. It is as exactly as you discribed. I will keep that in mind lol
As for merchant thief, it gave me a good laugh. So no big deal if it's not fixed.
We just need to make sure not to put trade depot one locked door away from dining hall :p
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: Dsarker on June 20, 2011, 02:13:17 am
Try a floodgate and lever combo.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on June 22, 2011, 07:57:48 am
Does the critter kitchen successfully react with live vermin as regents? If so, how?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: thatkid on June 23, 2011, 05:01:02 pm
Quote from: Dsarker on June 14, 2011, 07:44:54 am
That looks really good, thanks for that!

Edit: should "smiteded" be "smited"?
Just saw this. Sorry I didn't respond early.

Nah, the smiteded typo was on purpose. It's just the inorganic RAW name, it doesn't actually show up in game.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: Pan on June 23, 2011, 10:25:44 pm
Quote from: DarkThug on June 19, 2011, 05:41:23 pm
Every Kobold merchant seem to be master class thief. When they are chased by Goblins, they will unlock each and every layers of my locked door, leading invader force right into the heart of  my camp.

I lol'd. Incompetent moments like these are what makes DF so funny sometimes.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: thatkid on June 26, 2011, 03:14:44 pm
Hey folks, if you're like me and use Forlorn Realms (or any other mod that adds in a secret metal that should only be accessible to certain NPC civs through cheat reactions that only they have access to) and were a bit weirded out by the fact that Kobolds have access to literally every metal ever, I have a solution!
Simply add [PERMITTED_JOB:FURNACE_OPERATOR] to their entity!
This will allow you to melt things as well, but you won't be able to smelt anything because you won't have the available reactions. Which makes a little sense, at least I think. Kobolds might not have the knowledge to make their own steel bars, but they probably know how to re-purpose a steel longsword that those plucky humans left in their trap chamber. Assuming that's even possible, I've yet to survive a siege so I haven't had the chance to melt anything down. It could just be that you'll get more shiny things to trade with.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: thatkid on July 06, 2011, 10:03:38 pm
Bumping this, and also letting you know there's a typo in the short bow weapon. They display as "Short bows" even in the singular.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: Dsarker on July 06, 2011, 11:29:07 pm
Already known.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: thatkid on July 06, 2011, 11:45:12 pm
Ah, my bad.

I probably could have searched first, but I dislike bumping without actually having anything to say...
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: Kaleb702 Games on August 12, 2011, 10:48:22 am
Questions:
1:
Is this the right version? Google is giving lots of different versions. Seems to be right, but just to be sure.
2:
Is it a glitch that the traction bench requires stone mechanisms and not wood, or is it purposely that way?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: Lagotrope on August 23, 2011, 04:13:04 pm
Quote from: Kaleb702 Games on August 12, 2011, 10:48:22 am
Questions:
1:
Is this the right version? Google is giving lots of different versions. Seems to be right, but just to be sure.
2:
Is it a glitch that the traction bench requires stone mechanisms and not wood, or is it purposely that way?

1- Yes, this is the latest version of KC around, after getting passed around through a few different makers. Unless someone else took it up while I wasn't looking (I think Lofn was thinking of making a simplified KC reminiscent to the old 40d days since this one has gotten pretty bloated with features relatively speaking, but I haven't seen it.)

2- As for traction benches, I do not know. I'll take a look to see what's up with that, as I'd like it to be possible to make them with wood.

As for news/thoughts in general, or lack thereof...

Development is slowed, and I haven't even been on the map for some time. Updates still will likely be few and far between until the next version of DF comes out. The next KC version has had progress, mostly small stuff that's been pointed out. I'll try to taper that off so that what issues it has can be cleaned up as much as it can, considering some limitations to modding. In effect, though, the most major things I've wanted to implement have been implemented, and everything in the last several months have simply been the additions of new ideas, and the fixing of issues I can fix, and biggest, simply porting from one version to the next. Chances are it'll remain that way, unless df 31.26 has significantly added modding capabilities.

I'm hoping 31.26's added adventuring mode will improve the state of KC's adventuring for kobold and the like, as lately they haven't lived at all without temporary NO_EAT tokens.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: Xotano on September 05, 2011, 07:03:34 am
cant tell the kobolds what jobs to do :| fun tho, also the migrants have no names
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: Lagotrope on September 05, 2011, 07:15:02 am
Quote from: Xotano on September 05, 2011, 07:03:34 am
cant tell the kobolds what jobs to do :| fun tho, also the migrants have no names

Strange, these were all bugs I thought were fixed. Well, off to the list they go. I would recommend dwarf therapist though for telling kobolds what job to do, if that's a viable thing for you. Not just for KC, it's pretty fantastic for DF-anything.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: Xotano on September 05, 2011, 08:36:39 am
also i got attacked after my second caravan, woulda been fine if it weren't a fire giant. but as it was almost all my kobolds died and the ones that are left are the useless job ones unable to do anything and they are tantruming like crazy. i think it went well for my first attack ever tho, i havn't even been attacked playing dwarfs yet. 9196 total wealth. and a population of around 15ish.
also i made a wooden fort with a large trap tunnel, if you cant dig it you can always build it :P
also i'v never seen a landscape so chared xD

also it might be stuff you have fixed if you updated the mod within the last week or so.
you should keep a list of your latest changes somewhere.

also kobolds wont dump stuff properly
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: Lagotrope on September 05, 2011, 03:50:47 pm
Quote from: Xotano on September 05, 2011, 08:36:39 am
also i got attacked after my second caravan, woulda been fine if it weren't a fire giant. but as it was almost all my kobolds died and the ones that are left are the useless job ones unable to do anything and they are tantruming like crazy. i think it went well for my first attack ever tho, i havn't even been attacked playing dwarfs yet. 9196 total wealth. and a population of around 15ish.
also i made a wooden fort with a large trap tunnel, if you cant dig it you can always build it :P
also i'v never seen a landscape so chared xD

also it might be stuff you have fixed if you updated the mod within the last week or so.
you should keep a list of your latest changes somewhere.

also kobolds wont dump stuff properly

Looks like something messed up this release, as whatever I did, the jobs do seem messed up. It's odd that I didn't notice it, but it seems to have fixed itself on the progress to the next version. The inability to dump items is new, I'll look into that.

As for a list of my latest changes somewhere, there an entire changelog in the KC readme, AND the last 5 or so versions on the first post.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: Weaselcake on September 20, 2011, 08:51:57 pm
What are all the features in this mod? I'm finding the OP kind of vague. :/
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: Xotano on September 21, 2011, 08:22:04 am
it adds a few workshops and makes all your fortress mode maps played as kobolds instead of dwarfs, you cant dig into stone, mostly its just a challenge, only metal from trades so you mostly have to use wood/bone/shell equipment.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: Zwerg on October 13, 2011, 04:02:46 pm
Can we have an ASCII version? Ironhand is not my thing.

Edit: I just found out that the Kobold graphics are not the original of Ironhand (I guess). I don't want to mock your art, but these fluffy and happy looking bunnies doesn't seem to fit into the dark and depressing world of DF. I had to change them on my own just to be able to play the mod. Now they look dim and moody like the world that surrounds them.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: Master Catfish on October 14, 2011, 04:53:08 pm
Quote from: Zwerg on October 13, 2011, 04:02:46 pm
Can we have an ASCII version? Ironhand is not my thing.

Edit: I just found out that the Kobold graphics are not the original of Ironhand (I guess). I don't want to mock your art, but these fluffy and happy looking bunnies doesn't seem to fit into the dark and depressing world of DF. I had to change them on my own just to be able to play the mod. Now they look dim and moody like the world that surrounds them.

There's two Kobold graphics included in the download.  I agree with you about the default; they are rather cute and I find that not to match the way I imagine my DF worlds.  However, Haggle's Kobolds are not as cute. I use them when I play Kobold Camp.  The readme will elaborate on how to change the graphics.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: Lagotrope on October 14, 2011, 05:13:01 pm
Quote from: Zwerg on October 13, 2011, 04:02:46 pm
Can we have an ASCII version? Ironhand is not my thing.

Edit: I just found out that the Kobold graphics are not the original of Ironhand (I guess). I don't want to mock your art, but these fluffy and happy looking bunnies doesn't seem to fit into the dark and depressing world of DF. I had to change them on my own just to be able to play the mod. Now they look dim and moody like the world that surrounds them.

Fair point. Along with offering haggle's as an alternative, I'll also try to seperate ironhand's kobolds as well (as I get the impression with that edit that it wasn't ironhand in general that wasn't your thing, but the kobolds themselves that were the issue) for those who don't like the mismatch. Personally it doesn't throw me off, as despite how cute they look, it doesn't make them immune from the darker world around them, but hey, the key word is personally.

Although an ascii version is far from difficult to throw on, so I may offer that next version as well. I'm currently in the middle of rebuilding the entire mod, as lately I've gotten back into it, but the game has crashed on me inexplicably and frequently without so much as a letter in the errorlog. I'm also going to try to trim it back, because whether by change of design or recent versions, some of the reactions have become redundant.

Oh, and as a little FYI, I actually didn't make the graphics. I may test my hand at adding a few sprites to fit the new professions like bee keeper/presser and all that, but otherwise I can't take credit for a single pixel.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: Ultimuh on October 14, 2011, 06:11:06 pm
Downloading, as I am bored of waiting for Deon to update his graphics versions of Genesis.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.3, for DF 31.25 last update 10/19/2011)
Post by: Lagotrope on October 19, 2011, 10:49:10 am
And after X number of months of nothing, I finally got 1.3 up. It's definitely a bigger change than most other updates, though in some ways, it also peels back several things.

No more mining through any standard stone at all, though you can still get through gem veins. To get to them though, you have to get exceedingly lucky, or embark on top of a cave for all sorts of FUN. It's a real easy thing to change, see the readme for details, this sort of kobold camp specific options are in the readme's first section.

That's the big thing, otherwise, this is a whole lot of refining of what I already had. Lots of reactions were removed, because either were redundant, or became so when I added in the rest of the jobs. Lots of reactions were fixed, including the training.

Oh, and farming wood, that's a big one too. Finally got that working as it should; the seeds you get for harvesting are actually plantable now.

All in all, it's more reminiscent of how it was (intended) to be played back in 40d, surface level kobolds, arguably with some (or a lot) of tunnels dug through soil.

Oh, and I finally got dwarves to trade with kobolds. I'm pretty happy about that. So while you won't get more stone than you know what to do with, you will be able to get a decent supply of valuable metals.

Just remember that kobolds can make full use of mechanisms, and you're best off using them. Goblins will still hate you. And in your rush to chop down the whole forest to wall off and trap everything in goblin defense, the elves will probably hate you too and make you chop down even more trees ironically. The point is, kobold military is still just horrible. I upped the size of a kobold, but only because they were, for whatever reason, incredibly tiny before. They're still small (40000 compared to a dwarven 60000 or human 70000.) With training reactions working correctly, you can get decent skill in a reasonable amount of time in a weapon of choice. I may add shield/armor/whatever training as well later on.

As for known issues, I can't seem to get the newer professions working with default/peasant tiles. I may just make those 6 or 7 new sprites and see if I can't get them working that way. I did switch to Haggle's graphics, as that collection had more entries than the original sheet.

Oh, and despite game years of playtesting, I had little luck in the way of critter remains, and so I haven't been able to properly test critter kitchen reactions. Altar reactions don't work as intended (and are rather broken in the imbalance sense), so those are taken out for the time. Failed rituals didn't hurt the kobolds, and kobolds were able to do rituals with choy toys and toy hammers, rather than just wood/bone fetishes.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.3, for DF 31.25 last update 10/19/2011)
Post by: Tirion on October 20, 2011, 04:53:40 am
Question: can they collect clay? Also, I'm kind of interested in your experiences with carnivorous creatures vs kitchen- did you have to change anything so they can eat honey products, or it's just mead?

Also, if you cook prepared foods, or gather plants, do military kobold fill their backpacks those despite being unable to eat them?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.3, for DF 31.25 last update 10/19/2011)
Post by: Lagotrope on October 20, 2011, 09:45:37 am
Quote from: Tirion on October 20, 2011, 04:53:40 am
Question: can they collect clay? Also, I'm kind of interested in your experiences with carnivorous creatures vs kitchen- did you have to change anything so they can eat honey products, or it's just mead?

Also, if you cook prepared foods, or gather plants, do military kobold fill their backpacks those despite being unable to eat them?

Assuming nothing is glitching out, they are able to collect clay and mold it freely, acting as their manner of stone in many ways.

I'm not too positive how honey is seen, and I haven't changed anything about it. It likely is just mead. However, and this goes with cooked prepared foods, if prepared foods have ANY meat in it, the kobolds will eat it (it's been awhile since this has been confirmed, but it should still be the same.) So it could be 3 parts plant, 1 part meat, and they'll still eat the whole thing. Otherwise, it's just for mead, like the plants are just for drinks (or thread or wood.)

I'm assuming that military kobolds seek food with the same AI they use to eat food, and so this should be the same. Admittedly whenever I activate military I need them ASAP, and so don't have them gather food/drink, so I can't confirm this with confidence, either.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.253, for DF 31.25 last update 4/20)
Post by: Zwerg on October 20, 2011, 01:17:35 pm
Quote from: Lagotrope on October 14, 2011, 05:13:01 pm
Fair point. Along with offering haggle's as an alternative, I'll also try to seperate ironhand's kobolds as well (as I get the impression with that edit that it wasn't ironhand in general that wasn't your thing, but the kobolds themselves that were the issue) for those who don't like the mismatch. Personally it doesn't throw me off, as despite how cute they look, it doesn't make them immune from the darker world around them, but hey, the key word is personally...

To change the main tileset isn't that hard. I did that, but ended up with the default kobold graphics. Beside of the aesthetical reason, the even bigger problem is that both of them are more into details and fancy looks than into convenience. I can't distinguish them without taking a closer look. they all look almost the same with a different small tool in their hand. The colors aren't contrasty.
I prefer the simple "yellow Dwarf cuts wood and makes woodstuff" thing.

After some research I found a screenshot of an old version. I'd love to have simple and convenient graphics like that (but I know how the most people here think about that).

Here:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/397/welcomekoboldrivergg3.gif/

(I forgot how to insert a picture)


Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.3, for DF 31.25 last update 10/19/2011)
Post by: JacenHanLovesLegos on October 20, 2011, 02:02:26 pm
Insert pictures with the Insert Image option.
Code: [Select]
[img][/img]Great mod for a challenge.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.3, for DF 31.25 last update 10/19/2011)
Post by: BigFatStupidHead on October 20, 2011, 11:30:30 pm
Quote

Assuming nothing is glitching out, they are able to collect clay and mold it freely, acting as their manner of stone in many ways.


An important point is that Kobolds can not embark with fire-safe materials (when I last played) and thus can not build kilns. Is there another way for them to fire clay?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.3, for DF 31.25 last update 10/19/2011)
Post by: Lagotrope on October 21, 2011, 11:57:40 am
Quote from: BigFatStupidHead on October 20, 2011, 11:30:30 pm
Quote

Assuming nothing is glitching out, they are able to collect clay and mold it freely, acting as their manner of stone in many ways.


An important point is that Kobolds can not embark with fire-safe materials (when I last played) and thus can not build kilns. Is there another way for them to fire clay?

Odd, they've been able to embark with just about anything (even anvils) initially for the last several tests I've done. It can depend a lot on world-gen factors, so unless it happens repeatedly over and over again, that one time you tried may have been a fluke.

Even so, caravans should still have fire safe materials. If not kobolds, then humans or dwarves, which with any good luck will trade with you. Or in bad luck, siege you instead. If none of that works, then I would say that that world-gen was in full 'screw kobolds' mode. If it KEEPS happening, then let me know, because that would be strange and wrong.

Quote from: Zwerg on October 20, 2011, 01:17:35 pm
To change the main tileset isn't that hard. I did that, but ended up with the default kobold graphics. Beside of the aesthetical reason, the even bigger problem is that both of them are more into details and fancy looks than into convenience. I can't distinguish them without taking a closer look. they all look almost the same with a different small tool in their hand. The colors aren't contrasty.
I prefer the simple "yellow Dwarf cuts wood and makes woodstuff" thing.

After some research I found a screenshot of an old version. I'd love to have simple and convenient graphics like that (but I know how the most people here think about that).

Here:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/397/welcomekoboldrivergg3.gif/

(I forgot how to insert a picture)

The addition of color tones is a good idea. I'll see if I can't get that working, and if it looks alright with the tileset, will add that in.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.3, for DF 31.25 last update 10/19/2011)
Post by: Zwerg on October 28, 2011, 01:59:24 pm
It seems so that you can't save the embark options properly. After loading them for the next game, they are screwed and some modded tools vanish.

My last Camp of ~40 was entirely killed by their own ~40 dogs. And I have no idea how it started but I guess some tantrum chain reaction. Suddenly dogs where chasing the kobolds and killing them. So much FUN.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.3, for DF 31.25 last update 10/19/2011)
Post by: Lagotrope on October 28, 2011, 06:11:43 pm
Quote from: Zwerg on October 28, 2011, 01:59:24 pm
It seems so that you can't save the embark options properly. After loading them for the next game, they are screwed and some modded tools vanish.

My last Camp of ~40 was entirely killed by their own ~40 dogs. And I have no idea how it started but I guess some tantrum chain reaction. Suddenly dogs where chasing the kobolds and killing them. So much FUN.

It's all about 200% increases in FUN.

And yes, saving embark options isn't recommended in KC, I'm sorry to say. Moreso than DF, tools and items availability immensely varies between worlds and locations, so it's rare that one embark save will have many of those items available next time. It is a pain, but not quickly fixable without having an onslaught of adverse effects.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.3, for DF 31.25 last update 10/19/2011)
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 05, 2011, 09:30:48 am
in truth, you just need that one stone to kickstart clay collection  ;D
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.3, for DF 31.25 last update 10/19/2011)
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 05, 2011, 05:20:27 pm
hey, I can have a pet troll from the embark screen! how cool! I need stonesense just to see the face of the goblin when the invaders see them!
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.3, for DF 31.25 last update 10/19/2011)
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 06, 2011, 05:16:09 am
question: can the clay be removed from the stone that may be used for buildings and such modding the raw, or is it an hardcoded behavior?

it feel cheap to mass build everything out of clay but I have no willpower  :P

(I'm ok with bricks. maybe a one 3 clay and 1 wood to 3 bricks would be better, however, to even out wood consumption; but this I can do myself. probably.)

Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.3, for DF 31.25 last update 10/19/2011)
Post by: Tirion on December 06, 2011, 05:34:49 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on December 06, 2011, 05:16:09 am
question: can the clay be removed from the stone that may be used for buildings and such modding the raw, or is it an hardcoded behavior?

it feel cheap to mass build everything out of clay but I have no willpower  :P

(I'm ok with bricks. maybe a one 3 clay and 1 wood to 3 bricks would be better, however, to even out wood consumption; but this I can do myself. probably.)

People IRL have no problem with building out of raw clay, though they add some plant fiber. Perhaps a reaction for that?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.3, for DF 31.25 last update 10/19/2011)
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 06, 2011, 05:44:43 am
yup, the only problem is with abundance of the clay. feels cheap. I've the modded brick reaction in, but I can't find what defines the clay lump. (I've found the layers, but not the actual stuff that get's out from the collect clay labor)

either way, it seems that removing is_stone is not enough to prevent building out of it, so meh. I'll embark without clay for now.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.3, for DF 31.25 last update 10/19/2011)
Post by: Lagotrope on December 06, 2011, 09:47:44 am
Hm, it is true, clay is so common to make things far easier than intended. I don't know a way to change the manner that the collected clay works, aside from disallowing the kiln, and therefore collection. I'd rather not do that, as I can't think of any good reason why kobolds wouldn't use clay.

Changing the brick reaction is easy enough (and has been done as mentioned); it's already in the raws under reaction_other. You could change the '1' in [REAGENT:clay:1:BOULDER:NONE:NONE:NONE] to '3' for example so that kobolds need to gather 3 clay to make one brick.

That's not really the problem though. As far as I can tell, the gathered clay is hard coded to be building material, in the same sense that you can build stuff out of ash. As much as I dislike having a player having to rely on self restraint, I don't know how to implement a preferable alternative.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.3, for DF 31.25 last update 10/19/2011)
Post by: Crandal on December 15, 2011, 09:31:47 pm
It seems the DFFD website is down, is there any other place to download this mod?

Edit: Nevermind, it's back up.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.3, for DF 31.25 last update 10/19/2011)
Post by: chemioterapia on December 17, 2011, 05:35:17 pm
Add wooden statues please.

EDIT: Why i can't make any armor from leather/bones? I can only craft leather clothes like dress, coat, robes etc. im sad :<.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.3, for DF 31.25 last update 10/19/2011)
Post by: Lagotrope on December 19, 2011, 11:39:46 am
Quote from: chemioterapia on December 17, 2011, 05:35:17 pm
Add wooden statues please.

EDIT: Why i can't make any armor from leather/bones? I can only craft leather clothes like dress, coat, robes etc. im sad :<.

I don't see why not, I'll throw in wooden statues next release, whenever that is.

As for the armor issue, I do not know, I was pretty sure that was possible. Generally there's something broken each release, I'll look into this one, again whenever the next release happens.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.3, for DF 31.25 last update 10/19/2011)
Post by: chemioterapia on December 19, 2011, 02:23:31 pm
Also, i cant tan any hide in furrier's shop. I changed fur_mat into tan_mat and this work.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.3, for DF 31.25 last update 10/19/2011)
Post by: Lagotrope on December 19, 2011, 02:28:37 pm
Quote from: chemioterapia on December 19, 2011, 02:23:31 pm
Also, i cant tan any hide in furrier's shop. I changed fur_mat into tan_mat and this work.

And that I could swear was working last time, it's like KC runs differently on each computer.

It is a conundrum, but I'll put that on my list to test again to see what I find.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.3, for DF 31.25 last update 10/19/2011)
Post by: chemioterapia on December 20, 2011, 09:50:38 am
To start clay economy you can use ash too :P.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.3, for DF 31.25 last update 10/19/2011)
Post by: Lagotrope on December 20, 2011, 10:05:28 am
Quote from: chemioterapia on December 20, 2011, 09:50:38 am
To start clay economy you can use ash too :P.

Indeed, it's all hilariously broken on that front. Maybe I'll put kobolds back to default size. Probably not.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.3, for DF 31.25 last update 10/19/2011)
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 20, 2011, 10:26:00 am
Quote from: Lagotrope on December 20, 2011, 10:05:28 am
Quote from: chemioterapia on December 20, 2011, 09:50:38 am
To start clay economy you can use ash too :P.

Indeed, it's all hilariously broken on that front. Maybe I'll put kobolds back to default size. Probably not.

I like small, wimpy kobolds. just my two cents, obviously  :P
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.3, for DF 31.25 last update 10/19/2011)
Post by: Lagotrope on December 20, 2011, 11:30:19 am
Quote from: LoSboccacc on December 20, 2011, 10:26:00 am
I like small, wimpy kobolds. just my two cents, obviously  :P

As do I, but the vanilla size of a kobold is 20000. For reference, a dwarf is at 60000. A dog is at 30000. They're bigger than a cat which is at 5000, but nevertheless, it seems that if we take body sizes literally, a kobold in vanilla DF is about a foot and a half tall.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.3, for DF 31.25 last update 10/19/2011)
Post by: Lagotrope on December 20, 2011, 11:30:58 am
(Double posted somehow)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.3, for DF 31.25 last update 10/19/2011)
Post by: chemioterapia on December 20, 2011, 11:58:49 am
I have few ideas
- Hardened leather armor, gloves, shoes and pants. 1 piece of hardend leather will be made from 4 leather and 3 wax, armor will need 2 hardened leather while other will need only 1.
-Wooden clogs, just shoes but when glazed it can be used as armor but it slows kobolds.
-Poisonous ammo, stronger and causing syndromes. Maybe new plant that grows really slow.
-Studded toys, made from leather and wools. Maybe just more valuable than regular toy's and craft's.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.3, for DF 31.25 last update 10/19/2011)
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 25, 2011, 03:13:16 pm
the corrosion mod has wood&clay slabs reaction  :P
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.3, for DF 31.25 last update 10/19/2011)
Post by: Lagotrope on December 25, 2011, 03:18:00 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on December 25, 2011, 03:13:16 pm
the corrosion mod has wood&clay slabs reaction  :P

Yes, the reactions using wood and clay and all that are fine and easy to implement, the issue is actually preventing some uses; i.e. building with raw clay being the main one. Unless that's exactly what you meant, in which case whoops to me.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.3, for DF 31.25 last update 10/19/2011)
Post by: LoSboccacc on December 25, 2011, 03:35:29 pm
they don't resolve building with clay, it's for another issue: dead merchants not being entombed even with the body available so they leave a ghost scaring the bejesus out of kobolds

no stones, no slabs, so I've incorporated the wood&clay slab from corrosion in my install. they are a nice addition, so I did want to share the info there to other kobolders
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.3, for DF 31.25 last update 10/19/2011)
Post by: Lagotrope on December 25, 2011, 03:39:43 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacc on December 25, 2011, 03:35:29 pm
they don't resolve building with clay, it's for another issue: dead merchants not being entombed even with the body available so they leave a ghost scaring the bejesus out of kobolds

no stones, no slabs, so I've incorporated the wood&clay slab from corrosion in my install. they are a nice addition, so I did want to share the info there to other kobolders

Oh, gotcha. Yeah, it won't resolve the issue of clay making kobold camp's too easy, but I wasn't aware that dead merchants would be an issue, so if that's a workaround, then I'll toss that on the to-do list for that issue.

Quote from: chemioterapia on December 20, 2011, 11:58:49 am
I have few ideas
- Hardened leather armor, gloves, shoes and pants. 1 piece of hardend leather will be made from 4 leather and 3 wax, armor will need 2 hardened leather while other will need only 1.
-Wooden clogs, just shoes but when glazed it can be used as armor but it slows kobolds.
-Poisonous ammo, stronger and causing syndromes. Maybe new plant that grows really slow.
-Studded toys, made from leather and wools. Maybe just more valuable than regular toy's and craft's.

I'll keep these in mind, though some of them, mainly the poisonous ammo, aren't feasible with current modding abilities to my knowledge. Hopefully this'll change eventually, I do like the idea of kobolds using poison darts and the like.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.3, for DF 31.25 last update 10/19/2011)
Post by: gazoko on January 08, 2012, 04:19:13 pm
Just popping in to say thanks for the mod, great fun after making forts was getting kind of easy, it's been 2 years and all I got is messhall/head kobolds room, a small housing apartment and a hospital system, not to mention the useless caravans I get! A real challenge, having to micromanage to get any food made and to stop them straying into herds of giraffe :P. Might go back to vanilla and make some crazy fort, but I want to see this one through first  :D!
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.3, for DF 31.25 last update 10/19/2011)
Post by: Spish on January 08, 2012, 10:51:36 pm
I'm not sure if it's possible to modify the "Melting" code, but nonetheless, here's an idea: Give kobolds a recycling reaction that essentially replaces "Melt." It would let them, without using any fuel, reduce metal equipment to "scrap" (as opposed to bars) that they can use to make crude equipment. Stuff made from scrap would have a lower value than regular equipment, and a higher weight, but otherwise function the same. This way, kobolds can produce metal without having to rely solely on bars from caravans.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC ver 1.3, for DF 31.25 last update 10/19/2011)
Post by: Master Catfish on January 14, 2012, 03:09:11 pm
Quote from: Spish on January 08, 2012, 10:51:36 pm
I'm not sure if it's possible to modify the "Melting" code, but nonetheless, here's an idea: Give kobolds a recycling reaction that essentially replaces "Melt." It would let them, without using any fuel, reduce metal equipment to "scrap" (as opposed to bars) that they can use to make crude equipment. Stuff made from scrap would have a lower value than regular equipment, and a higher weight, but otherwise function the same. This way, kobolds can produce metal without having to rely solely on bars from caravans.
I think this is a good idea, and possible with a few reactions.  The only trouble I can see with it is that the 'melt' designation would be ignored, and any old thing might be reduced to scrap.  So you'd have to forbid any weapons or armor any time you didn't want them recycled.  A scrap pile next to the workshop might be plenty though, as long as the recycler wasn't carrying any items.  Regardless, I'd recommend making a new material for each type of 'scrap,' and giving each of these stats which are slightly inferior to their counterparts.

Anyway, that's just my two cents.  Love the mod, and follow it even when I'm not playing DF.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.4, for DF 34.01 last update 02/18/2012)
Post by: Lagotrope on February 18, 2012, 03:52:29 am
New version is up, but it is literally just a hacked together port, as I don't have much time these days. So, the only testing I did was to make sure the game didn't crash horribly upon fort/adventurer mode. The errorlog does spew out many lines of errors (skeleton/zombie are no longer valid graphic tags I guess), but nothing critical I saw.

I only tried adventurer mode enough to see it works, kobold outsider seemed to behave as it should, and a kobold belonging to a civilization seemed to, except that the starting town didn't seem to have anyone inside. But I found a sewer entrance, went in, and got my butt kicked by a mummy, so it still works like it should.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.4, for DF 34.01 last update 02/18/2012)
Post by: Hugo_The_Dwarf on February 20, 2012, 01:36:38 pm
I would like to ask if I can merge this into my Mod? I want to make kobolds playable as well as Dwarves and Humans. And you have the style I like them to be played as.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.4, for DF 34.01 last update 02/18/2012)
Post by: CaptainKobold on February 20, 2012, 04:31:48 pm
I'm downloading the newest version now!  Thank you for keeping this alive, Lagotrope!
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.4, for DF 34.01 last update 02/18/2012)
Post by: CaptainKobold on February 21, 2012, 12:36:53 pm
Hmmm... I can't seem to find Bone Armor in this new version.  Was it taken out before and I just missed that?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.4, for DF 34.01 last update 02/18/2012)
Post by: Hugo_The_Dwarf on February 21, 2012, 12:40:20 pm
Quote from: CaptainKobold on February 21, 2012, 12:36:53 pm
Hmmm... I can't seem to find Bone Armor in this new version.  Was it taken out before and I just missed that?
It's probally a simple fix, just goto "item_(armor types).txt" and add [BARRED] to desired armor parts you wish was made from bone (or was it [SCALED]? No thats for shell)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.4, for DF 34.01 last update 02/18/2012)
Post by: Lagotrope on February 21, 2012, 12:47:40 pm
Quote from: Hugo_The_Dwarf on February 20, 2012, 01:36:38 pm
I would like to ask if I can merge this into my Mod? I want to make kobolds playable as well as Dwarves and Humans. And you have the style I like them to be played as.

Sure, you're welcome to do that.

Quote from: CaptainKobold on February 21, 2012, 12:36:53 pm
Hmmm... I can't seem to find Bone Armor in this new version.  Was it taken out before and I just missed that?

Nope. That's odd, I figured that if anything like that wouldn't work in the new version, the errorlog would have a hernia over it, but there wasn't anything like it (unless I just missed that.)
I'll investigate that one at some point, but as long as it doesn't crash the game or something obscene, I suppose there just won't be any bone armor for awhile.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.4, for DF 34.01 last update 02/18/2012)
Post by: CaptainKobold on February 21, 2012, 12:50:31 pm
It looks as though item_armor_kobold is missing from the objects folder.  That would probably explain it.  No big deal not to have it for a little bit!
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.4, for DF 34.01 last update 02/18/2012)
Post by: Hugo_The_Dwarf on February 21, 2012, 01:15:19 pm
Quote from: Lagotrope on February 21, 2012, 12:47:40 pm
Quote from: Hugo_The_Dwarf on February 20, 2012, 01:36:38 pm
I would like to ask if I can merge this into my Mod? I want to make kobolds playable as well as Dwarves and Humans. And you have the style I like them to be played as.

Sure, you're welcome to do that.
Thank you, Do I credit you? Or just post a link to here? The download has alot of names in it's own credits. So just curious.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.4, for DF 34.01 last update 02/18/2012)
Post by: Lagotrope on February 21, 2012, 01:18:40 pm
Quote from: CaptainKobold on February 21, 2012, 12:50:31 pm
It looks as though item_armor_kobold is missing from the objects folder.  That would probably explain it.  No big deal not to have it for a little bit!

You know, compiling it, I noticed that armor file missing, but figured I just moved it somewhere else. I'm not sure where it would've gone, but yeah, that would do it. I'll need to find where that file went, since for some reason the previous version is missing too (or at least it is on my own copy.)

Quote from: Hugo_The_Dwarf on February 21, 2012, 01:15:19 pm
Quote from: Lagotrope on February 21, 2012, 12:47:40 pm
Quote from: Hugo_The_Dwarf on February 20, 2012, 01:36:38 pm
I would like to ask if I can merge this into my Mod? I want to make kobolds playable as well as Dwarves and Humans. And you have the style I like them to be played as.

Sure, you're welcome to do that.
Thank you, Do I credit you? Or just post a link to here? The download has alot of names in it's own credits. So just curious.

I can't say I'm sure which one's appropriate, so perhaps just a link, though I don't think anyone would flip out seeing my name alone. Whatever you think is best, really, since I'm fuzzy on it myself.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.4, for DF 34.01 last update 02/18/2012)
Post by: Hugo_The_Dwarf on February 21, 2012, 01:27:27 pm
Alright Link it is, Thanks again.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.4, for DF 34.01 last update 02/18/2012)
Post by: Spish on February 21, 2012, 06:21:34 pm
You should find a way to make it so the bolds can rise up as necromancers, vampires, and werecreatures in worldgen. Because that would be hilarious.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.4, for DF 34.01 last update 02/18/2012)
Post by: Bronze Dog on February 21, 2012, 09:53:07 pm
Glad to see the new version, even if it's still being polished. I generated a few worlds of my own, experimenting with some quick raw modding of my own to the vanilla kobolds. I got the starvation problem quite a bit, but that issue seemed to fix itself when I set kobolds to build cities as their default site. Just thought I'd let you harder core players know. EDIT: Looked at the new raws. Seems you already knew.

From what I read in legends, kobolds can become vampires (usually by being cursed by a god, since I set them as Religion:Pantheon), and can become lycanthropes. One world of mine featured a dwarven weredeer who really got around, infecting a lot of kobolds.

One thing that was kind of sad in my legends: Kobolds can almost become necromancers. A kobold can become obsessed with his mortality, be taught the secrets of life and death, and write books, but they won't be listed as necromancers, and they'll still die of old age. I've seen a couple cases where a kobold becomes a master to his kobold student and back. One took on a human student who became a necromancer. That particular kobold wrote "Victory and the Kobold" as his first book, along with other kobold-related literature, but after training his human apprentice, he started writing about humans a lot before dying of old age. I could really feel the sad envy.

I'm certainly curious what gets in the way of their necromancy.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.4, for DF 34.01 last update 02/18/2012)
Post by: CaptainKobold on February 21, 2012, 10:12:05 pm
Here is the file itself if you don't currently have it:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Would adding it back in to an existing save be possible or not really?  I tried putting it into the save's raw folder, but am not seeing it as an option in any of the workshops.  Of course, it could be I have the wrong shop as well!
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.4, for DF 34.01 last update 02/18/2012)
Post by: Lagotrope on February 22, 2012, 07:32:00 am
Quote from: CaptainKobold on February 21, 2012, 10:12:05 pm
Here is the file itself if you don't currently have it:

Would adding it back in to an existing save be possible or not really?  I tried putting it into the save's raw folder, but am not seeing it as an option in any of the workshops.  Of course, it could be I have the wrong shop as well!

Thank you, I'll put it back in and patch it soon enough. As for adding to an existing save, it looks like you may need to add the reactions to the skulking entity. Which is incredibly strange; I figured I could lose a file over a clerical mistake, but it's like the specific snippits of armor reactions were taken out.

And so were the specific buildings. I'm at a complete loss, I have recollection, nor idea why I would, remove those things.

Quote from: Bronze Dog on February 21, 2012, 09:53:07 pm
Glad to see the new version, even if it's still being polished. I generated a few worlds of my own, experimenting with some quick raw modding of my own to the vanilla kobolds. I got the starvation problem quite a bit, but that issue seemed to fix itself when I set kobolds to build cities as their default site. Just thought I'd let you harder core players know. EDIT: Looked at the new raws. Seems you already knew.

From what I read in legends, kobolds can become vampires (usually by being cursed by a god, since I set them as Religion:Pantheon), and can become lycanthropes. One world of mine featured a dwarven weredeer who really got around, infecting a lot of kobolds.

One thing that was kind of sad in my legends: Kobolds can almost become necromancers. A kobold can become obsessed with his mortality, be taught the secrets of life and death, and write books, but they won't be listed as necromancers, and they'll still die of old age. I've seen a couple cases where a kobold becomes a master to his kobold student and back. One took on a human student who became a necromancer. That particular kobold wrote "Victory and the Kobold" as his first book, along with other kobold-related literature, but after training his human apprentice, he started writing about humans a lot before dying of old age. I could really feel the sad envy.

I'm certainly curious what gets in the way of their necromancy.

That is pretty sad, yeah. Good story, but I do believe I will let them have necromancy. It has been done and there is a post for it, so it'll be done as well as fixing this anomaly of purged armor stuffs.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.4, for DF 34.01 last update 02/18/2012)
Post by: Bronze Dog on February 22, 2012, 09:38:34 am
Yeah, I genned a world after my post and was pleased to see a kobold necromancer tower, and there were confirmed kobold necromancers.

Notable books:
"Victory and the Kobold"
"Can the Kobold Save the World?"
"The Kobold is My Life"
"The Kobold and Nothing Else"
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.4, for DF 34.01 last update 02/18/2012)
Post by: Spish on February 22, 2012, 04:10:41 pm
Not sure why you'd reduce their lifespan to 1/10 of what it originally was, but I recommend making 'bolds fast learners so they can make the most of those years. If only for weapon and survival skills (dodging), since fighterbolds really don't make it very far in the field of combat. In the event you ever actually did manage to get a legendary fighterbold at the normal rate of learning (and in spite of the total squishiness of kobolds), he'd almost certainly be dead of old age after a few years :P
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.4, for DF 34.01 last update 02/18/2012)
Post by: Bronze Dog on February 22, 2012, 04:47:10 pm
It was a little disconcerting seeing all the short lifespans in my KC world's Legends, but I think it's appropriate. Seeing a lot of them die of old age was more reassuring than starvation, thankfully. Despite the relative peaceful "Golden Age" over the world, the biggest kobold civ was in a decline: Humans repeatedly declaring war over the use of torture, and elves repeatedly declaring war over trees. Oddly, one thing I started noticing on the war summaries was that the kobolds were fighting alongside trolls in those wars.

Short lifespans are probably going to contribute quite a lot to the number of dead historical figures when I generate an old (1050 years) world today. I'll be curious to see how well the little guys endure over that span.

EDIT: Dangit! Now I'm getting crashes about a century or two into world gen, and I can't figure out what I messed up. Tried loading the standalone raws on top of vanilla DF's and it crashed again.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.4, for DF 34.01 last update 02/18/2012)
Post by: Vherid on February 23, 2012, 06:10:30 pm
I would assume this should work for 34.02 as well, but might as well ask just in case.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.4, for DF 34.01 last update 02/18/2012)
Post by: Bronze Dog on February 23, 2012, 06:18:40 pm
An update on my buggy status: It world gen crashes once, all world gens will crash until I restart my laptop.

I got up to year 1028 in that old world gen, and I didn't get to look much, but there was at least one kobold hamlet that was focused on near the crash. So, the little guys can survive, though I don't know how big their place in the world will be.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.4, for DF 34.01 last update 02/18/2012)
Post by: Replica on February 26, 2012, 09:34:03 am
My kobolds are incredibly boss.

An ill equipped squad of 6 armed with training weapons and shell helmets fought off an elven ambush force of 18 with half the squad ending up crippled.
Just a few weeks afterwards however the squad was up and running again, despite still having fractured bones and impaired motor skills, they absolutely refuse to lie down and rest, its like they WANT to defend their tree fort.

If they survive the next attack I am building these guys a monument in their honor.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.4, for DF 34.01 last update 02/18/2012)
Post by: Keizo on March 11, 2012, 03:54:56 pm
Whoo!! I'm in the mood for KOBOLDS!! I loved this mod back in the day and in my return to DF I am pleased to see that kobolds still have fans.

Now it's too bad I tend to be too dumb to patch anything in DF, but here I go, trying to create a functioning 0.34.05 version of kobold fortress.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.4, for DF 34.01 last update 02/18/2012)
Post by: Paramatter on March 24, 2012, 03:44:15 am
This may be a bit nitpicky, but...  Why exactly do the Kobold descriptions have entries for both snouts and muzzles?  It's been my understanding that those are two words for the same bits of anatomy and I haven't been able to find anything saying otherwise.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.4, for DF 34.01 last update 02/18/2012)
Post by: Epitaxis on March 28, 2012, 08:56:44 pm
I think I've seen this before, but someone edited the speed at which a civilization was able to dig through stone and how quickly they learned in mining. As much as I enjoy the idea of kobold not being half a minor as any dwarf I'd imagine they'd be able to get through stone sooner or later if they put their minds to it..... That and I find it a minor inconvenience to lose a kobold every now and then to a fey mood because I can't get a hold of gems and the trader not trading any because he's just a lowly kobold. I lost my favorite today to a fey mood. :' (

Thank you for the work you've done so far on this and completely endorse this mod. Keep it up because I suck at modding! xP
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.4, for DF 34.01 last update 02/18/2012)
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 06, 2012, 08:35:34 am
uhm. I modded in a hammerer like noble, using dagger as skill instead of hammer, just because.

I'm not that much on kobold lore: I've given him the title of 'Butcherer', but I'm looking for better suggestions
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.4, for DF 34.01 last update 02/18/2012)
Post by: Deon on April 06, 2012, 09:05:59 am
Call him "Fingercutter" or something more kobold-ish. A butcherer is not a very good choice because it's similar to a real profession and could cause confusion.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.4, for DF 34.01 last update 02/18/2012)
Post by: DarthBoogalo on April 06, 2012, 09:18:44 am
You could actually just add whatever bit of raw to another noble that you think would go about giving executions, I think you can, at least.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.4, for DF 34.01 last update 02/18/2012)
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 06, 2012, 12:17:43 pm
Deon, I like your thinking. I'll go with Hand Cutter, it's more traditional, in a way.

Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.4, for DF 34.01 last update 02/18/2012)
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 09, 2012, 05:12:02 am
I've made this small mod to kobold kamp for myself, I guess I'll post it there for other to use:

http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=6136

changelog:
merged raws with .07
added clay slabs from *Corrosion*
tuned clay brick reaction: 1 fuel + 5 clay in, 3 bricks out
added Hand Cutter position, does the hammerer job but with a dagger
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.4, for DF 34.01 last update 02/18/2012)
Post by: LoSboccacc on April 09, 2012, 09:24:40 am
after a big duh,
added sandals as common footwear
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=6136
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.4, for DF 34.01 last update 02/18/2012)
Post by: Vigilant on April 10, 2012, 09:16:52 pm
I'm pondering my own version, i'm thinking instead of eliminating digging stone, just making a lot of the advanced stone and metal skills have abysmal skill progression rates. Like weaponsmithing 10%. Kobolds dig, kobolds may find ore, but they're so hard to learn how to work it effectively that use of it is discouraged. I'll probably need to work on items too to balance some things out with this philosophy, but that's where i'm heading. Once i get to testing I'll try and remember to let people know how it goes.

Also i'm whacking analytical ability even further but buffing social_awareness. Suggested play settings also are to set max pop 10 and kill migration, that way you don't get 10 grand master weaponsmith migrants, not to mention it'll make things difficult. GET THOSE WOMEN BREEDING :D
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.4, for DF 34.01 last update 02/18/2012)
Post by: Hugo_The_Dwarf on June 16, 2012, 08:04:35 pm
Hey lago, KC seems pretty outdated, and has quite a few bugs. I have done alot of bug fixing and adding new stuff to KC for Regeneration: Forced Evolution. And was thinking, if you don't mind. Posting a DF 34.11 update with all the fixes too, and minor extra content (renamed kobold weapons, new tribal like clothes, reactions to make skull helms, and even make iron grade bone weapons/armor)

It would be simple for me to just tune back some of my changes to keep with the "no dig stone" goal of KC

P.S.

I may or may not been prodded into doing this.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.4, for DF 34.01 last update 02/18/2012)
Post by: axeman157 on June 16, 2012, 08:15:05 pm
Breath life into Kobold Camp Hugo, give it LIFFFEEE!
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.4, for DF 34.01 last update 02/18/2012)
Post by: Hugo_The_Dwarf on June 20, 2012, 12:01:49 am
Alright with no response from Lago I have done a update. Well sorta it is in progress, Since I forgot what I had to change to get KC to function in Regeneration propperly

I basically ripped whatever I had in Regen and dropped it in, and I am now trying to find the bugs, and crush them.

Now when I say ripped out that means *only* kobold stuff has been brought over. Now When I finish with this update, I might or might not work on it. Depends how much CaptainKobold pokes and prods me. But Regeneration will always have a updated KC, but there will be a point where I add in "castes" and magic to bolds.

Anyways enough ramble, I will return to this updating.

EDIT:
hrm this is slightly difficult, Considering I had to move quite a bit around between the two mods. I shall see what I can do tomorrow
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.4, for DF 34.01 last update 02/18/2012)
Post by: Corai on June 20, 2012, 12:32:09 am
*pokes Hugo with a bone spear*


Work!
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.4, for DF 34.01 last update 02/18/2012)
Post by: Hugo_The_Dwarf on June 20, 2012, 12:36:02 am
Quote from: Corai on June 20, 2012, 12:32:09 am
*pokes Hugo with a bone spear*


Work!
Hehe noted *rubs were I was poked* but for now I require "rest"
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.4, for DF 34.01 last update 02/18/2012)
Post by: Hugo_The_Dwarf on June 20, 2012, 12:27:30 pm
Heh it seems the Pre-Packed version is 1.4 while the stand alone raws are 1.3. DLing 1.4 now. Good thing I was only in the planning stage last night. Also should I create a new thread?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.4, for DF 34.01 last update 02/18/2012)
Post by: NewsMuffin on June 20, 2012, 03:41:37 pm
I would say yes, so you could update the original post, which would make it considerably easier to find and download.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.4, for DF 34.01 last update 02/18/2012)
Post by: The Scout on June 20, 2012, 05:54:53 pm
Can the kobolds eat plants? Or is meat required?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.5, for DF 34.11 last update 06/29/2012)
Post by: Lagotrope on June 29, 2012, 08:01:51 pm
A WAY overdue update.

Thanks to Hugo for starting to take up KC, and I almost considered letting this thread go away, but I had a near completed update sitting around for too long. And apologies for not responding, I missed any emails about this thread getting responses.

SO. Kobold Camp for version 34.11 is now uploaded to DFFD (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2071).

It's been so long, there may be some issues. But, I did fix some old issues. The errorlog should be cleaned, and the graphics have been updated to Phoebus, as with the Haggle kobold tileset integrated.

Also, on a playtest, I had a kobold go stark raving mad. She had 5 good thoughts and 1 bad, the latter being "embarrassed to not have any shoes lately." Normally I don't see the bolds as having shoes as anything but a luxury, but if they are literally going insane without it, then they can now make shoes. Lastly, although it sounds rather advanced, I decided they would have minecarts and wheelbarrows as well, unless I find a compelling reason not to include those.

Let me know if there are any outstanding issues/comments. It's been awhile since I've touched much, and some things are occasionally lost in translations between versions, so this is likely. I'll try to keep on the ball about it for awhile.

Quote from: The Scout on June 20, 2012, 05:54:53 pm
Can the kobolds eat plants? Or is meat required?
Normally meat is required, but as a result, they starve in worldgen. Therefore, I removed the [BONECARN] until that changes.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.5, for DF 34.11 last update 06/29/2012)
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on June 29, 2012, 08:24:48 pm
It seems to have changed. I don't see vanilla kobolds starving to death anymore.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.5, for DF 34.11 last update 06/29/2012)
Post by: Lagotrope on June 29, 2012, 08:43:58 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on June 29, 2012, 08:24:48 pm
It seems to have changed. I don't see vanilla kobolds starving to death anymore.
Huh, you're right. I thought that was the case, but I could have sworn I saw rampant starvation while genning worlds with bonecarn. Testing it again, that's not the case, so I added bonecarn back in and 1.5 is reuploaded. Thanks for the catch.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.5, for DF 34.11 last update 06/29/2012)
Post by: Hugo_The_Dwarf on June 29, 2012, 08:57:51 pm
Well since you have returned and now working on this again here are some things to help you out:
Spoiler: Clothes plus entity code (click to show/hide)
No more bad thoughts
Spoiler: Wheelbarrows and Minecarts tool and entity code (click to show/hide)

custom armor items
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

If you want my Break down metal weapons and armor to make crude metal and stuff, just let me know.

EDIT:
I would be able to offer help on updating this, like if you plan on adding in interactions, or other stuff.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.5, for DF 34.11 last update 06/29/2012)
Post by: Lagotrope on June 29, 2012, 09:22:17 pm
Quote from: Hugo_The_Dwarf on June 29, 2012, 08:57:51 pm
Well since you have returned and now working on this again here are some things to help you out:
Spoiler: Clothes plus entity code (click to show/hide)
No more bad thoughts
Spoiler: Wheelbarrows and Minecarts tool and entity code (click to show/hide)

custom armor items
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

If you want my Break down metal weapons and armor to make crude metal and stuff, just let me know.

EDIT:
I would be able to offer help on updating this, like if you plan on adding in interactions, or other stuff.
Awesome, thank you. I'll be using these in the next version.

And I have just been looking at the interactions and how they work, so I may work with those as well. If you'd like to throw in interactions as well, that would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.5, for DF 34.11 last update 06/29/2012)
Post by: Hugo_The_Dwarf on June 29, 2012, 09:31:50 pm
Depends on what you want to do with the interactions, For my spin off of KC I was going to have a Shaman caste of Kobold that could do minor combat magic, but mainly healing/stat buff spells

And a caste of kobold that would automaticlly go into ambush mode once a month or twice a month, they would move slower due to it. but they would make great guards or suprise attackers. "The Kobold has sprung from Ambush!"

But these would be done through prayers/offerings of food to the gods a sort of Upgrade kinda thing. Which also has negative effects
Shamans become frail and die of old age sooner, and shadow bolds. I haven't figured out a fair exchange for that. maybe sterility?

Also a poll in my KC thread people wanted Digging enabled, but just as much or more said they liked the old "no dig stone" method
Also what do you think of breaking metal stuff down to use to make crude armor and weapons?

Btw I also reworked all kobold weapons too, the old "kobold <instert weapon name here>" didn't sound right to me.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.5, for DF 34.11 last update 06/29/2012)
Post by: Bronze Dog on June 29, 2012, 09:52:37 pm
I'm fond of kobold shamans as a general concept. While dwarves are creatures of technology and !!SCIENCE!!, I like to imagine kobolds developing as creatures of magic and superstition. I probably wouldn't give them overt forms of magic like hurling fireballs, but something more subtle.

I glanced over the raws and noticed there was a "meditate" reaction in the training grounds, to boost concentration. I once tried to think of something interesting for a kobold shaman to do with the concentration skill at an altar or something, but I never did think of something I could translate into a reaction.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.5, for DF 34.11 last update 06/29/2012)
Post by: Lagotrope on June 29, 2012, 09:54:11 pm
Quote from: Hugo_The_Dwarf on June 29, 2012, 09:31:50 pm
Depends on what you want to do with the interactions, For my spin off of KC I was going to have a Shaman caste of Kobold that could do minor combat magic, but mainly healing/stat buff spells

And a caste of kobold that would automaticlly go into ambush mode once a month or twice a month, they would move slower due to it. but they would make great guards or suprise attackers. "The Kobold has sprung from Ambush!"

But these would be done through prayers/offerings of food to the gods a sort of Upgrade kinda thing. Which also has negative effects
Shamans become frail and die of old age sooner, and shadow bolds. I haven't figured out a fair exchange for that. maybe sterility?

Also a poll in my KC thread people wanted Digging enabled, but just as much or more said they liked the old "no dig stone" method
Also what do you think of breaking metal stuff down to use to make crude armor and weapons?

Btw I also reworked all kobold weapons too, the old "kobold <instert weapon name here>" didn't sound right to me.

I'll likely integrate your reworked weapons as well, I'll take a look over them. As for Shamans, that sounds perfect, as it's something that I wanted to do before interactions made it possible. An ambush caste of kobolds sounds interesting, although it may have limitations on its own since it can't be controlled directly if I'm right.

Digging is hit or miss among people. I tend to include the non-diggable soil, because it's easier for people to revert that to a vanilla files by overwriting them than it is to go through and add the undiggable tokens to every stone.

And lastly, breaking metal stuff down to use for crude armor and weapons would be excellent. In fact, I recall it being mentioned, but it slipped my mind to implement that.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.5, for DF 34.11 last update 06/29/2012)
Post by: Hugo_The_Dwarf on June 29, 2012, 10:48:56 pm
Quick and easy way to make stone undiggable

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Right near the end ;) and for Ore to make it diggable make all metal bearing rocks use teh SOIL_TEMPALTE and that is it, because those have [IS_STONE] which makes them drop boulders once digith :P

plus it lets you use the new material values toady put in, without too much hassle ;)

also kobold weapons
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

some things like spears and stuff I enabled for kobolds to use like this is the entity file:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.5, for DF 34.11 last update 06/29/2012)
Post by: Hugo_The_Dwarf on June 30, 2012, 12:53:41 am
Ok teh breaking down metal stuff.
Spoiler: Crude metals (click to show/hide)

Iron
Copper
Bronze
Silver
Steel all need a
   [MATERIAL_REACTION_PRODUCT:CRUDE:INORGANIC:<said metal name>_CRUDE] dropped into them

Spoiler: reactions (click to show/hide)
^^^Also has make wooden spears and clubs nested in there^^^

also for allowing kobolds access to vital metals

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
^^^Allows embarking and trading of said metals^^^

also these are used in the metal breaking reactions
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Entity crap
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Oh crap I forgot that I had throwing axes for my kobolds

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
^^^Could probally be called tomahawks? Hatchet/Choper with tomahawks? Also only fully grown bolds can hold these 1 handed with no penelties^^^


Everything in hear has been geared towards functionality, and flavour. So reading them looks nice, and figuring out what is what in a list of menus has been thought of and done.

As for the castes, I will be adding them into Regen, Ambushing bolds will use their hide power whenever they can even in battle. that is why I want to limit it's use to a month or half a month. So you don't have a shadowbold constantly phasing in and out of sight during combat, of course that would be epic to see. And the planned method of pulling these upgrades off will allow full control of who the player wishes to give the upgrades too.

Reguarding spells I have a minor healing spell and a ice strike spell (tosses 4 shards of ice) for starter. And planned to have the shaman have to meditate or do something to learn more spells. But due to the major frailty they get. Using for combat better be a last resort, because they will get torn apart. Also it's better for a kobold pup to become a shaman ;) the battery lasts longer.

Also what is your thoughts on a "beefier" kobold upgrade? Kinda like the kobold's own little Body builder Spartan (Btw the armor stuff I made was based on spartan armor, except for the shield (blocking bracer, made by Delioth) that was inspired by castlevaina LoS) but I don't know what side effects being a muscle bold would be? no physical stat gain and rust. all skills cut in half?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.5, for DF 34.11 last update 06/29/2012)
Post by: LoSboccacc on June 30, 2012, 04:10:25 am
remember the wood/clay slab reactions  or the fort will stuck with ghost :P
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.5, for DF 34.11 last update 06/29/2012)
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on June 30, 2012, 08:07:05 am
Indeed.
Maybe some kind of "potter's wprkshop," requiring a millstone (or something else round) and some mechanisms but allowing potters to make stuff out of clay without firing it?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.5, for DF 34.11 last update 06/29/2012)
Post by: Hugo_The_Dwarf on June 30, 2012, 12:23:25 pm
Making Wood and Clay Slabs
Spoiler: Reactions (click to show/hide)

@GWG
I think the only way to make clay useful is to fire it. But i've only worked with clay a few times in my life, so there may be other ways to make clay useful with out being fired. But without firing is clay just no better then dried mud?

I had a post all ready to go with spells and stuff, but something messed up and I had to redo this post. Then again without the acual ground work those spells might sit there for quite a bit.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.5, for DF 34.11 last update 06/29/2012)
Post by: Lagotrope on June 30, 2012, 12:40:14 pm
Alright, I'll be working to integrate this stuff in what I have. I expect there to be mistakes, and I'll do a playtest to make sure I haven't made redundancies in the menus or what have you before I upload anything.

Also, to avoid confusion between kobold spears and normal spears, I may rename it to something else, such as a 'pointy stick' or similar. And yes, I forgot that without stone, making slabs would be difficult.

Now, I've rerealized that I am way behind on the workings of mods. For one thing, I've heard that it's impossible for kobolds to normally become necromancers, and I couldn't find the thread post that explained how to change this. I'm not sure if I'd WANT to change this, but I would like to know how.

Moving along, I do like the idea of crude things, but at the moment a lot of it seems potentially redundant. A lot of these metal objects could just be melted down and reforged, unless there's something I'm missing. It may be worth rethinking the available jobs, and shut down some advanced stuff like weapon/armorsmithing. But last I checked, shutting down one job shut down the whole family of skills, so more than just armor/weaponsmithing would be affected. It's been a long time, but I do recall there being a reason why I opened those jobs again; although the reason may be long since gone.

I'm also pretty certain that firing clay isn't an issue so long as one has wood to burn to charcoal. I admittedly forgot about the mechanics of that as well.

For a musclebold caste, I would be interested in that as well. It would be nice I think to add some flavor, although I likely would prefer to keep it simple with just a few castes rather than having 10 different kinds of kobolds to keep track of. Nevertheless, it's a good idea. Same with the shamans, although I do agree with Bronze Dog that it may be best to keep the magic subtle, IF possible to do so. I'd still prefer hurling ice bolts than no magic at all, for sure.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.5, for DF 34.11 last update 06/29/2012)
Post by: Bronze Dog on June 30, 2012, 12:59:14 pm
I was able to get kobold necromancers when I worldgenned for KC, but not in vanilla DF. I'm wondering if giving them linguistic skill might have played a part.

I did make a few tweaks of my own copy of KC, but I doubt they affected it. I made kobolds generate towns (but not roads or forts) and to prefer towns, changed their biome preferences to forests and swamps, and some ethics tweaks. (Apparently there's a decent number of wars about displaying hunting trophies)

Cute moment I remember looking at legends mode: Many of the books necromancers write are about other necromancers. I found one kobold necromancer who wrote a book about his wife. D'aw.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.5, for DF 34.11 last update 06/29/2012)
Post by: Hugo_The_Dwarf on June 30, 2012, 01:06:39 pm
I was going to post the Ice spells and Earth ones, plus slow and confusion. And I think 3-4 castes of bold is good (Normal, Shaman, Muscles, Ambusher)

but other spells could be made "learnable" if there would be anymore planned other then:

Icicle
Ice Shards
Slow
Confuse/Befuddle
Heal

As for the necro thing, Kobolds need to have a pathegeon Religion I believe. Also had another Idea for a spell, Something that weakens animated corpses. CaptainKobold was a victum of a Necromancer attack, and maybe having something that can counter "evil" magic might be good?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.5, for DF 34.11 last update 06/29/2012)
Post by: Bronze Dog on June 30, 2012, 02:08:31 pm
Ah, now that makes sense. I did switch my kobolds to pantheon religion and forgot about it.

I suppose the castes would be one way to make multiple races within one entity. I suppose having "muscle" kobolds has its appeal, since many game races have some associated brute race to counterbalance another's war machines or heavy infantry.

Just had a possible idea for shamans: Enchanting equipment. Leather armor -> Magic leather armor, with "magic leather" as a slightly stronger material. Would be something to use that trained concentration on. Of course, keeping in with the underdog theme, I wouldn't make it a huge boost. Do wonder about how to make it interact with item quality, though. It might be akin to decoration with the second layer of quality marks.

Healing magic seems a likely application, since I'm getting some kind of witchdoctor/medicine man idea, though I picture it as the shaman using herbs and such with medical care for some kind of extra benefit.

I'm no modding expert, so all this is new ground for me.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.5, for DF 34.11 last update 06/29/2012)
Post by: Hugo_The_Dwarf on June 30, 2012, 03:41:37 pm
Well healing I can make it a spell that lasts 100-200 ticks, and boosts recuperation by 10 times. But the shaman has to be by/near the wounded for he//she to keep adding this "healing" effect.

As for the how the castes would work

[CASTE:MALE_NORMAL]
[POP_RATIO:90000]
[CASTE:FEMALE_NORMAL]
[POP_RATIO:90000]
[CASTE:MALE_SHAMAN]
[POP_RATIO:1]
-add base level spells, icicle and healing-
[CASTE:FEMALE_SHAMAN]
[POP_RATIO:1]
-Might as well use a SELECT_CASTE method for adding shaman spells and pop_ratios-
[CASTE:MALE_MUSCLE]
[POP_RATIO:1]
[CASTE:FEMALE_MUSCLE]
[POP_RATIO:1]
[CASTE:MALE_SHADOW]
[POP_RATIO:1]
[CASTE:FEMALE_SHADOW]
[POP_RATIO:1]

All the "better" castes are a upgrade only option, thus no matter what you will never have a upgrade caste migrate or show up in worldgen. These upgrades can be given in a few ways:
Most common - Boiling Stone inhaled syndrome (can affect more then one bold)
Second common - Consumable Item (can affect 1 bold at a time, but must be hungry/thirsty and hard to controll who eats/drinks it without micro-managment)

But Muscle bolds could maybe be a natural rare caste? I prefer it being a upgrade, Like having the Shaman/Witch-Doctor whip up some roids from various plants, and venoms (a use for traders bringing random blood and venom) Then have a normal bold take the roids, and get beef'd up.

Also as a side-effect of being a roid raging kobold, maybe they need to drink booze and only can eat meat? (for the booze I can use a timer that if the muscle bold doesn't drink booze they will get weaker until they become crazed/berserk? the berserk part might be a bit over kill?)

If these upgrades are good to go, I think they should have a + and a - effect. Because if Shamans, or roid bolds, or shadow bolds have no bad effects, what is stopping someone from just upgrading all bolds to that?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.5, for DF 34.11 last update 06/29/2012)
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on June 30, 2012, 08:03:06 pm
Quote from: Hugo_The_Dwarf on June 30, 2012, 12:23:25 pm
@GWG
I think the only way to make clay useful is to fire it. But i've only worked with clay a few times in my life, so there may be other ways to make clay useful with out being fired. But without firing is clay just no better then dried mud?
Think Play-Doh. If you could have made it from a sufficiently large chunk of Play-Doh as a kid, someone with enough time and damp clay on their hands can make it out of clay.
Toy balls, little things that can be used as ammo, flat-topped (although crude and legless) chairs and tables, crude blocks, statues, slabs, simple stuff like that.

Also: What happens if POP_RATIO is 0? That seems to be a much more efficiient way than giving normal 'bolds a RATIO of 90,000. Also, brutebolds sound more like dull, slow, maybe clumsy kobolds that happened to be born bigger and stronger than their counterparts, and maybe with claws or natural combat skills (3-4 levels of fighter?) or something. No more than one in ten, maybe one in a hundred. There might be a spell/workshop reaction/something that turns a normal kobold into something a bit bigger and stronger than a brute, and a brute into a big, hulking thing a bit stronger than a dwarf.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.5, for DF 34.11 last update 06/29/2012)
Post by: Hugo_The_Dwarf on June 30, 2012, 08:28:33 pm
Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on June 30, 2012, 08:03:06 pm
Quote from: Hugo_The_Dwarf on June 30, 2012, 12:23:25 pm
@GWG
I think the only way to make clay useful is to fire it. But i've only worked with clay a few times in my life, so there may be other ways to make clay useful with out being fired. But without firing is clay just no better then dried mud?
Think Play-Doh. If you could have made it from a sufficiently large chunk of Play-Doh as a kid, someone with enough time and damp clay on their hands can make it out of clay.
Toy balls, little things that can be used as ammo, flat-topped (although crude and legless) chairs and tables, crude blocks, statues, slabs, simple stuff like that.

Also: What happens if POP_RATIO is 0? That seems to be a much more efficiient way than giving normal 'bolds a RATIO of 90,000. Also, brutebolds sound more like dull, slow, maybe clumsy kobolds that happened to be born bigger and stronger than their counterparts, and maybe with claws or natural combat skills (3-4 levels of fighter?) or something. No more than one in ten, maybe one in a hundred. There might be a spell/workshop reaction/something that turns a normal kobold into something a bit bigger and stronger than a brute, and a brute into a big, hulking thing a bit stronger than a dwarf.
Well when POP_RATIO is "0" DF defaults it to 50? or is it 100? plus a really large POP_RATIO on plain bolds doesn't hurt :P

I like th brute Idea and maybe they could be a rare/less common bold aka can be born naturally. But if we add the HULKing bold then that is 2 more castes and with what I have now is 8 castes, the hulks would bring it up to 10
Quote from: Lago
For a musclebold caste, I would be interested in that as well. It would be nice I think to add some flavor, although I likely would prefer to keep it simple with just a few castes rather than having 10 different kinds of kobolds to keep track of.
I could do the caste work, but It's up to Lago.

About the clay, hmm.. seems like a good point, altho if a bunch of clay was put together and it dried, it would crack massively. But a soft clay slab could be doable, but it would have to stay nice and moist unless it is not very thick (1") to prevent it cracking in half if it dryed. Also I prefered plaster-ceen as a kid, play-doh dried out and turned rock hard when I was younger. I was forgetful and left it out ok, lol.

Plus what is the harm in making charcoal and firing the clay :P if chairs and more stuff is desired to be made from clay, then I see no harm in making the reactions to do so.

Now I just have to wait for Lago :P in meantime
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.5, for DF 34.11 last update 06/29/2012)
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on June 30, 2012, 09:47:38 pm
I can imagine somehing like:
~3 clay -> 1 table or chair
1 clay -> 2-3 blocks
1 clay -> 20-30 clayshot (for a sling, or some other ranged weapon that can use stones as ammo)
5 clay -> 10-50% chance of a mechanism*, lots of useless clay bits of some sort. Maybe a few blocks?
1 clay -> 1-3 craft items, or 2 toys/mugs/etc.
Maybe there should be a separate material for these--"cracked clay" for most clay and
"cracked fire clay" for fire clay.
Unrelated: I like the idea of magical clay, rarely appearing as single-tile or small clusters in clay. Burning clay (hot, and useful in some reactions) in fire clay, for instance, or glowing clay in all kinds of clay. Burning clay could be made into burning clay torches (a special kind of weapon--I can also see "lit torches" made from wood, cloth, and oil or tallow) or used as a reagent in some magic, or maybe turned into fuel; glowing clay could be used as a reagent in making shamen.

*I have no idea what a mechanism is supposed to be, and so have no idea how realistic this is.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (KC version 1.5, for DF 34.11 last update 06/29/2012)
Post by: Lagotrope on July 01, 2012, 02:30:12 am
Alright, the playtest didn't show anything to go critically wrong, although it wasn't a thorough one, so I'm not 100% confident in no errors (though the errorlog is clean at least.)

In any case, version 1.51 is up. (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2071)

I've put in most of the recent reactions listed up to my last post, but feel free to mention if I missed anything.

Quote from: Hugo_The_Dwarf on June 30, 2012, 08:28:33 pm
Quote from: Lago
For a musclebold caste, I would be interested in that as well. It would be nice I think to add some flavor, although I likely would prefer to keep it simple with just a few castes rather than having 10 different kinds of kobolds to keep track of.
I could do the caste work, but It's up to Lago.
As Lago, I approve of this. I've got a fuzzy grasp on castes, so if you do make some, I'd love to use them. Thanks once again.

And I do agree that castes should have a plus and minus to them. It's new to me that a bold could be 'upgraded' to a caste, as I thought they were born as a certain caste and that was it. All the better if it could be worked like upgrades, such as shamans using magic/herbs to make a musclebold.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Hugo_The_Dwarf on July 01, 2012, 12:57:48 pm
I DL'ed V1.51 and will work on castes and interactions, Commenting as I go. If your next update involves altering the Kobold Creature let me know, because how i do Castes I basically completely re-arrage the creature.

Also for Castes I have this idea planned out:

Shamans
+Combat Magic (Ice, earth, Fire as an option learning choice)
+Curses/Wards (Can slow, confuse, and weaken undead beings)
+Healing Magic (Any kobold near the shaman gets a boost in healing rates, but the Shaman must be near them)
-Frail (takes more damaged)
-Weak (Can't really fight back in a fist fight)
-Shorter lifespan (max age is cut in half)

Musclebolds
+Stronger (might be able to pick up a human and toss em like a sack of potatos)
+Tougher (take a few arrows to the knee and still walk)
+No fear
+Harder to exert
-Needs Meat as food
-Needs Booze or will get weaker, and in a year beserk
-Can't get phys stats up
-Sterile
-Prone to Rage (lose control during fights, it's a hit and miss)

Shadowbolds
+Can hide/ambush
+Faster
-frail
-slower due to ambush mode
-should only be used for dedicated soldier bolds
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Lagotrope on July 01, 2012, 02:34:34 pm
Quote from: Hugo_The_Dwarf on July 01, 2012, 12:57:48 pm
I DL'ed V1.51 and will work on castes and interactions, Commenting as I go. If your next update involves altering the Kobold Creature let me know, because how i do Castes I basically completely re-arrage the creature.

Also for Castes I have this idea planned out:

Shamans
+Combat Magic (Ice, earth, Fire as an option learning choice)
+Curses/Wards (Can slow, confuse, and weaken undead beings)
+Healing Magic (Any kobold near the shaman gets a boost in healing rates, but the Shaman must be near them)
-Frail (takes more damaged)
-Weak (Can't really fight back in a fist fight)
-Shorter lifespan (max age is cut in half)

Musclebolds
+Stronger (might be able to pick up a human and toss em like a sack of potatos)
+Tougher (take a few arrows to the knee and still walk)
+No fear
+Harder to exert
-Needs Meat as food
-Needs Booze or will get weaker, and in a year beserk
-Can't get phys stats up
-Sterile
-Prone to Rage (lose control during fights, it's a hit and miss)

Shadowbolds
+Can hide/ambush
+Faster
-frail
-slower due to ambush mode
-should only be used for dedicated soldier bolds

I never did get a handle on messing with creatures. I just barely began to understand 40d, then 31.xx came out and I was lost again. Point is, I believe I'm satisfied with how they are currently, at most I may mess with descriptors, but likely not.

The castes appear good for the most part, but the musclebolds have a couple of parts that I wonder about. For instance, the 'need meat as food' is already implemented back in with [BONECARN], unless you mean that they will just be [CARNIVOROUS] instead. Also, the not able to get physical stats up seems like a pretty significant minus to the niche that they fill - although if their other bonuses already make them that much tougher, then for balance sakes that may be best still. It would be a thing that would require testing I suppose, it just stood out to me given that it's counterintuitive at first glance.

Since Shaman is a job (manager), I may rename that, to avoid confusion with actual shamans. I'll probably keep the job, but limit its duties to religion, rather than religion AND management. And taming exotics, apparently. Perhaps the same with witch doctor, as that implies more magicky stuff than the fact that they are just a doctor.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Hugo_The_Dwarf on July 01, 2012, 02:38:07 pm
Muscle bolds might get a major boost to str, and all that. But this is all still in the planning. So any input from you or others is welcome, I don't want to make one upgrade OP just have a helpful skill that may or maynot help the camps survival.

As for the CARNIVORE that is what I was going for, I thought bolds could eat plants too?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on July 01, 2012, 04:10:19 pm
Depends, did you remove/not add [BONECARN]?
...For that matter, can civilized BONECARNs eat bones or just meat?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Hugo_The_Dwarf on July 01, 2012, 06:18:56 pm
So far BONECARN is on kobolds, Shouldn't bolds be able to eat plants too? they arn't really a hardcore meat eater, Meat should be in their diet but plants should be too?

*Not a kobold expert* lol
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Lagotrope on July 01, 2012, 07:07:48 pm
Classically, bonecarn has always been on kobolds, and I have kept it that way. At least until they all starved in worldgen because of it. Once I learned that that was fixed, I put it back in. Added challenge and all that, needing to hunt/fish, and in large camps, relying on a caravan.

But! It can largely be circumvented through cooking meals. Kobolds will eat plants if a meal has at least some meat in it, regardless of whether or not it has plants as well. Unless, of course, that's changed.

Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on July 01, 2012, 04:10:19 pm
Depends, did you remove/not add [BONECARN]?
...For that matter, can civilized BONECARNs eat bones or just meat?
Bones and meat, but not straight up plants. [CARNIVORE] is just meat but with no bones, and unless there is a new tag, there is no way for a species to be able to eat bones but not also be carnivorous.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Hugo_The_Dwarf on July 01, 2012, 08:20:17 pm
Shame there wasn't a "Eats more" tag or something. Not get hungry faster, but might have to eat two things to stasify the hunger. I guess I need to find another thing to make muscle bolds do
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: BunnyMind on July 02, 2012, 01:34:41 am
Really glad to see this being worked on again! Kobold camp has always been my favorite mod.

Anyway, after playing for a bit today I've noticed a few minor errors and inconsistencies. Namely, noble titles aren't capitalized when they should be considering all other job titles are, the Scrimshawer and Soap Maker workshop both share the same build key, the "craft shell shield" reaction at the scrimshawer is misspelled as "craft shell sheld", shell hammers require bone instead of shell to craft, and Artifacts are enabled by default in the prepackaged version (whether or not creating artifacts is koboldy is up to individual interpretation, the real problem is they tend to ask for stones, which kobolds have no way of obtaining).
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Hugo_The_Dwarf on July 02, 2012, 01:46:01 am
Ah those bugs where reported on my thread of KC, also "Make Bone Flask" should acually be called "Make hoof/horn Flask"

I had a head start on Lago because of the version I update in Regen.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: EggFibre on July 02, 2012, 05:39:40 am
I know it's probably hidden somewhere, but how do you make shovels? I can't find anything in the carpenter's workshop.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on July 02, 2012, 06:17:37 am
Aren't shovels metallic? Find some ore, cut some trees, make some charcoal, go wild with forging.

About stones: Has anyone considered the value (positive, negative, game-breaking, or otherwise) of a "gravel" stone type, found in all soils in large clusters, useable as stone, and perhaps collectable as clay?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Lagotrope on July 02, 2012, 08:59:49 am
Thanks for the typo catches, I'll be fixing those.

Quote from: EggFibre on July 02, 2012, 05:39:40 am
I know it's probably hidden somewhere, but how do you make shovels? I can't find anything in the carpenter's workshop.

As Wyrm said, they're strictly metal. It's recommended to embark with them, and likely more than the 2 default. Once caravans come, you can trade for cheap copper shovels and the like if you aren't able to find ore yourself.

As for gravel, or some stone in the soil layer, I think I've toyed with the idea of it, but never expanded on it. I may test out something like that. Clay, as I recall, was also useable as a stone in many regards, but I don't recall the implications of that. I'll give it a try though. The idea was to make stone an ultimately valuable resource, not to have it completely devoid of existence nor swimming in it as dwarven forts often are. So this may work with a bit of tweaking.


As for putting copper/gold/etc in the soil, I know I've been able to do it before, but it doesn't appear to be working now with just having them take the soil template. I also tried using the [ENVIRONMENT:SOIL:VEIN:100] or similar tokens with no luck. I'll see if I stumble on something while mining out the soil.

In the meanwhile, I've readded [UNDIGGABLE] to the individual entries. While the other way, putting undiggable on the stone template, was overall nice and clean, it also made gems undiggable, which I'd like not to be the case, especially not if copper/gold is diggable. Also, I did like having a couple types of stone (chert comes to mind) as being diggable, as it's been mentioned that some types of rocks are easily broken up. My geology is lacking, though.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: BunnyMind on July 02, 2012, 10:25:22 am
Quote from: Lagotrope on July 02, 2012, 08:59:49 am
Quote from: EggFibre on July 02, 2012, 05:39:40 am
I know it's probably hidden somewhere, but how do you make shovels? I can't find anything in the carpenter's workshop.

As Wyrm said, they're strictly metal.
You can also make them out of bone in the scrimshawer's shop, actually.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Lagotrope on July 02, 2012, 11:08:49 am
Oh, yes, bone shovel. There it is. This it what happens when I don't develop in forever, I lose all recollection of these things.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: EggFibre on July 02, 2012, 11:32:26 am
Ok, cheers. I'll restart and bring some on embark. That's probably easiest.

Also, what kind of skills would you recomend on embark?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Bronze Dog on July 02, 2012, 12:14:56 pm
I think I'll try taking the plunge this weekend and build a camp. With dwarves, I usually end up stalling because I feel like I need everything planned out in advance. I can imagine things going differently for kobolds, since they're not the sort who'd plan big or efficiently, so I can just go for organic growth. Think I'll shoot for some isolated spot with clay and build an adobe city with rooftop bridges and such. If I end up prospering beyond my expectations, maybe build a Mayincatec pyramid or something.

Something that I just thought of: Any chance shamans could be made as something like necromancers? I'd worry that ToadyOne wouldn't have appropriate magic powers in the code for them, but even without magic, I'd be fine with a bunch of immortal druids hanging out in a circle, writing books about the secrets of nature.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: EggFibre on July 03, 2012, 09:22:37 am
Just thought I should mention, but I seem to be having problems where some of my idle Bolds are refusing to haul items, even though they have the skills turned on. I wasn't sure if this was a bug you were aware of, or if there was a way around it. It's not game breaking, but it is annoying.

Cheers for making a great mod.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on July 03, 2012, 10:16:13 am
Kobold shamen as secrets? Neat idea.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Bronze Dog on July 03, 2012, 10:29:30 am
I spent a bit of time yesterday researching necromancers and the secret/interaction tokens. Unfortunately, some stuff is still hardcoded, so apparently the only way to give shamans towers at the moment would be to give them the ability to raise dead, which would generate towers with undead swarms. No towers means they probably won't settle to train apprentices or write books.

It'll probably have to wait until a later version.

One magic ability that comes to mind for shamans is transformation effects, like D&D druids' wild shape ability, and maybe turning enemies into weak animals.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on July 03, 2012, 10:40:16 am
Turning enemies into cavies or cats or something sounds amusing, useful, possible, and perhaps OP. You can get them to transform themselves into bears or cougars or gators or what-have-you, but there's not really a good control on it. Unless you want them to turn into eagles or something to escape.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Lagotrope on July 03, 2012, 10:47:06 am
Quote from: EggFibre on July 03, 2012, 09:22:37 am
Just thought I should mention, but I seem to be having problems where some of my idle Bolds are refusing to haul items, even though they have the skills turned on. I wasn't sure if this was a bug you were aware of, or if there was a way around it. It's not game breaking, but it is annoying.

Cheers for making a great mod.

That's odd, as they seem to haul stuff for me. There could be a plethora of things, such as if they're limited to a burrow, or if it's refuse from outside they're not hauling, which is ignored by default (and can be changed with hotkey o, r, o if I remember right.) Or the game just likes me or something, but unfortunately I can't help much without being able to recreate the issue, but I'll keep on eye for it.

Quote from: EggFibre on July 02, 2012, 11:32:26 am
Ok, cheers. I'll restart and bring some on embark. That's probably easiest.

Also, what kind of skills would you recomend on embark?

Perhaps a bit of mining and woodcutting and a few generic tasks, also I do start one bold off with the appraisal skill so that I'm not trading with caravans in the dark. Medical skills are often a plus as well, if you can get a hold of the materials in the first place. But overall, I go light on kobold skills, and put more points into starting with more items.

Quote from: Bronze Dog on July 02, 2012, 12:14:56 pm
I think I'll try taking the plunge this weekend and build a camp. With dwarves, I usually end up stalling because I feel like I need everything planned out in advance. I can imagine things going differently for kobolds, since they're not the sort who'd plan big or efficiently, so I can just go for organic growth. Think I'll shoot for some isolated spot with clay and build an adobe city with rooftop bridges and such. If I end up prospering beyond my expectations, maybe build a Mayincatec pyramid or something.

Something that I just thought of: Any chance shamans could be made as something like necromancers? I'd worry that ToadyOne wouldn't have appropriate magic powers in the code for them, but even without magic, I'd be fine with a bunch of immortal druids hanging out in a circle, writing books about the secrets of nature.

From the sounds of it, shamans are in the works to be a caste and have lower lifespan, but would be more accessable. Druids may work for actual secrets, and I certainly wouldn't mind seeing something like that, a rare immortal kobold. It seems like those sorts of interactions were made for necromancers, but it's worth trying out. As you've elaborated on, it may seem like druid would be rare and only come up when a kobold god shares a secret with them, but they wouldn't pass it down/take apprentices without a tower apparently.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Bronze Dog on July 03, 2012, 11:06:26 am
Yeah, it's going to take some thought on how to keep it balanced if secret-type shamans are available as civ members. Self-transformation could be limited in power by available forms and whether or not they're tweaked to keep their equipment from falling to the ground when they transform. I'll have to look again, but I think interactions can be given time restrictions on use. Duration is another factor.

One thing to note is that I don't think a transformation victim loses its allegiance. If you turn a hostile elf of the attacking Moonflower civ into a cat, you're going to have a hostile cat loyal to the Moonflower civ. So no turning sieges into peaceful livestock just yet.

If, on the other hand, secret-type shamans end up as non-civ members who break away and do their own thing, being overpowered would mostly be restricted to adventure mode, unless something causes a shaman to attack your site like necromancers sometimes do.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Lagotrope on July 03, 2012, 11:17:11 am
I'm not even sure it's possible to have interaction/transformed/secret types be a part of ones civilization in dwarf mode. So it would be fine if they were strong, as they likely would be somewhere else. Although, without legions of undead or something, I think that an attack on the fort would end rather pathetically.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on July 03, 2012, 11:22:21 am
Interaction/Transformed/Secretive people should be good citizens, assuming no CRAZED or OPPOSED_TO_LIFE tags are added.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Hugo_The_Dwarf on July 03, 2012, 01:07:49 pm
Lots of speculation on Shaman castes :P
Hehe I intend it to be a upgrade-able caste which means, there won't be towers of them.
There is only two ways to get them
Now since Adv. Mode doesn't use the same method as the Fortress mode upgrade, that means Adv. Mode Shamans will acaully be stronger. But be lacking in spells.
And in a few fun tests Sanure has acually found that Retired Adventurers can migrate to your fort, if they retired in a kobold civ.
So that means your super powered Shaman you travelled the world with could show up at your camp.

Which might be fun to add something to make adventuers immortal (NO_AGING) so that your retired Shaman comes along as an ancient badass.

I think I wanted to say more, But RL calls
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: EggFibre on July 04, 2012, 03:46:33 am
Sorry to bother you all again, but I can't seem to work out which skill the wood processer uses to process wood, as I've tried Carpentry and Woodcutting, and neither seem to work.

Any help would be great.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Lagotrope on July 04, 2012, 01:28:30 pm
Quote from: EggFibre on July 04, 2012, 03:46:33 am
Sorry to bother you all again, but I can't seem to work out which skill the wood processer uses to process wood, as I've tried Carpentry and Woodcutting, and neither seem to work.

Any help would be great.

That would be Process Plant
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Nyxalinth on August 09, 2012, 06:22:01 pm
I downloaded the most recent version of this, and am having an issue with world gen.  It gets to where it's done, then rejects the world and starts over.  It did this nine times before I gave up.  Is this a bug, or am I doing something wrong?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Hugo_The_Dwarf on August 09, 2012, 07:56:20 pm
what size of world are you genning? Because my old version worked fine, and I'm sure this newer one did as well.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Sanure on August 09, 2012, 10:30:44 pm
Quote from: Hugo_The_Dwarf on July 03, 2012, 01:07:49 pm
And in a few fun tests Sanure has acually found that Retired Adventurers can migrate to your fort, if they retired in a kobold civ.
So that means your super powered Shaman you travelled the world with could show up at your camp.

I should add that its a very rare chance if they do join your camp. as far as i know its a probability based on race, age, achievements, and where in your fort's influence range it is (meaning if their in the capital they should have a higher chance of migrating to your fort). dont rely on a retired adventurer joining your fort unless your really lucky.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: dirkdragonslayer on September 24, 2012, 07:00:49 pm
My three spear kobolds just took down a moose, and two pandas! I'm proud of myself. also, does the throwing glove use both throwing axes and throwing hammers? also, why wont my kobolds wear the mussel shell helmets i painstakingly made?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Korbac on September 24, 2012, 07:58:02 pm
Quote from: Sanure on August 09, 2012, 10:30:44 pm
Quote from: Hugo_The_Dwarf on July 03, 2012, 01:07:49 pm
And in a few fun tests Sanure has acually found that Retired Adventurers can migrate to your fort, if they retired in a kobold civ.
So that means your super powered Shaman you travelled the world with could show up at your camp.

I should add that its a very rare chance if they do join your camp. as far as i know its a probability based on race, age, achievements, and where in your fort's influence range it is (meaning if their in the capital they should have a higher chance of migrating to your fort). dont rely on a retired adventurer joining your fort unless your really lucky.

Q. If you gave your adventurer a nickname, i.e., "Glorypants", will that appear when he immigrates? :)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: dirkdragonslayer on September 24, 2012, 08:48:41 pm
Quote from: Korbac on September 24, 2012, 07:58:02 pm
Quote from: Sanure on August 09, 2012, 10:30:44 pm
Quote from: Hugo_The_Dwarf on July 03, 2012, 01:07:49 pm
And in a few fun tests Sanure has acually found that Retired Adventurers can migrate to your fort, if they retired in a kobold civ.
So that means your super powered Shaman you travelled the world with could show up at your camp.

I should add that its a very rare chance if they do join your camp. as far as i know its a probability based on race, age, achievements, and where in your fort's influence range it is (meaning if their in the capital they should have a higher chance of migrating to your fort). dont rely on a retired adventurer joining your fort unless your really lucky.

Q. If you gave your adventurer a nickname, i.e., "Glorypants", will that appear when he immigrates? :)
probably, i think it would keep what you named him and all his stats, or it should. also, i learned you could use kobold migrants as meatsheilds armed with shovels while your good soldiers protect the people running to hiding. are caravans supposed to have so many weapons, because one died outside my fort and it had like 9 shovels of bronze and iron, silver gloves, and copper spear throwers. my armory is now full of shovels and shrapnel from the bones of moose(meese?).
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Sanure on September 25, 2012, 06:37:37 pm
Quote from: dirkdragonslayer on September 24, 2012, 08:48:41 pm
Quote from: Korbac on September 24, 2012, 07:58:02 pm
Quote from: Sanure on August 09, 2012, 10:30:44 pm
Quote from: Hugo_The_Dwarf on July 03, 2012, 01:07:49 pm
And in a few fun tests Sanure has acually found that Retired Adventurers can migrate to your fort, if they retired in a kobold civ.
So that means your super powered Shaman you travelled the world with could show up at your camp.

I should add that its a very rare chance if they do join your camp. as far as i know its a probability based on race, age, achievements, and where in your fort's influence range it is (meaning if their in the capital they should have a higher chance of migrating to your fort). dont rely on a retired adventurer joining your fort unless your really lucky.

Q. If you gave your adventurer a nickname, i.e., "Glorypants", will that appear when he immigrates? :)
probably, i think it would keep what you named him and all his stats, or it should. also, i learned you could use kobold migrants as meatsheilds armed with shovels while your good soldiers protect the people running to hiding. are caravans supposed to have so many weapons, because one died outside my fort and it had like 9 shovels of bronze and iron, silver gloves, and copper spear throwers. my armory is now full of shovels and shrapnel from the bones of moose(meese?).

Hmm, I'm not sure on the nickname but the rest is correct(and a bit to add). Any adventurer can immigrate to a fortress (seems to only let same race adventurers and not mixed :/) as long as they are a member of the civilization. They keep all stats, name, items, etc. , and they can bring family they acquired during world progression. also, any interactions they learned during their life comes with them so if you had a dwarf learn re-animate, fireball, and say transform into dragon, they would move into the fort with those spells (warning: assign them to non-work related duties, I.E. far away from crypts, people, animals, and important stores of beer and items). I'm still somewhat seeing what all is possible and im still doing a good amount of research on it -3- oh and i tend to lurk more these days
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: dirkdragonslayer on September 25, 2012, 08:43:54 pm
i just realised there is no reaction to make shoes, and my leader of the Red Raiders, "Rachel the Red", just had a shoe stolen, and the only thing stopping her for a tantrum is her husband Rusty, who recently got a minor case of necrosis from a snake, so he might die from my lake of string and cloth to seal the wounds. luckily shes part of my second squad armed with shovels and knives and not my amazing super spearbold army

Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: CaptainKobold on September 25, 2012, 09:59:27 pm
Three quick questions...

1) Are there any crazy game breaking bugs in this version?
2) Is there a big release on the way I should wait for?
3) Is two aborted community camps too many or shall I try another?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: dirkdragonslayer on September 26, 2012, 05:29:44 am
Quote from: CaptainKobold on September 25, 2012, 09:59:27 pm
Three quick questions...

1) Are there any crazy game breaking bugs in this version?
2) Is there a big release on the way I should wait for?
3) Is two aborted community camps too many or shall I try another?
1) none that i found, because you can make shoes but they are called ankle band.
2) i think hes gonna update it when DF updates, and when he feels like it.
3) this is the still running version, we don't need more people working on their own version.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: nanomage on September 26, 2012, 05:42:59 am
Quote from: CaptainKobold on September 25, 2012, 09:59:27 pm
Three quick questions...
1) Are there any crazy game breaking bugs in this version?
2) Is there a big release on the way I should wait for?
3) Is two aborted community camps too many or shall I try another?
I would definitely like to participate in a community KC game.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: OREOSOME on September 26, 2012, 07:32:37 am
Sign me up!
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: dirkdragonslayer on September 26, 2012, 02:52:16 pm
Quote from: nanomage on September 26, 2012, 05:42:59 am
Quote from: CaptainKobold on September 25, 2012, 09:59:27 pm
Three quick questions...
1) Are there any crazy game breaking bugs in this version?
2) Is there a big release on the way I should wait for?
3) Is two aborted community camps too many or shall I try another?
I would definitely like to participate in a community KC game.
Oh that's what he meant, i thought he asked if this thread was dead. Also troll be trollin:
(http://imageshack.us/a/img198/7412/trollbetrollin.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/198/trollbetrollin.png/)
Edit: Why can trolls make parties but not babies(I havent had a single baby troll, been a DF year) Edit2: the reason why they have job titles like Outlander Spearman and Red Raider is because i give bolds in my squads and special bolds special job names, and name the squads things like The Outlanders.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: CaptainKobold on September 27, 2012, 12:21:21 pm
Alright!  I'll have to download the latest, tinker a little bit to make sure I understand what I'm doing, and then I'll post some kind of a thread!
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: dirkdragonslayer on September 27, 2012, 06:54:30 pm
Quote from: CaptainKobold on September 27, 2012, 12:21:21 pm
Alright!  I'll have to download the latest, tinker a little bit to make sure I understand what I'm doing, and then I'll post some kind of a thread!
cool, not sure if i will play, but i would like to be bolded once its up.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Hugo_The_Dwarf on September 28, 2012, 06:06:50 pm
I don't know what work lago has done in the down time (between updates) But I know in this version (1.51) He included my updates of:
Ankle Bands (shoes)
Necklaces (Shirts)
Throwing axes + Battle Axe(t) [Throwing axes are ammo for Battle Axe(t) which is a melee, thoughts of renaming to "tomahawk"s are in the works]
Wagons (track) [minecarts but hold less]
Hand Carts (wheelbarrows for kobolds, half the capacity of a wheelbarrow)
Banded Skirt (lower body armor)
Blocking Bracer (shield)
Shin Guard (foot armor)
I think slings was added too.

And most of my reactions and fixes
Altho "Bone Flask" at the bone shop still uses "horn" materials.

Now it's been a bit before I posted any sort of modding stuff, but I'm still bogged down with collage. And another project on hold, But I still receive PMs (via email notifcation) I'll try and keep an eye out for Bugs and what have you, and if enough are posted and Lago is not around I guess I could take some time to complie a Hotfix.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Meph on September 28, 2012, 06:35:03 pm
I can be mistaken, but isnt ITEM_TOOL_CHUNK missing from the download (I tried the raw-only version)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Hugo_The_Dwarf on September 28, 2012, 08:59:30 pm
Just checked and it is missing, It must have been the argument about breaking metal stuff into crude metal (metal chunks) and the simple fact that kobolds could just "melt" items and "re-forge" them. So I think Lago was adding in that part of my addition, then thought against it. Leaving partial reminents.

Since my Regen Rip was far from what Lago has here.

Now que my disappearance again.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: dirkdragonslayer on September 28, 2012, 09:35:00 pm
i just had three people give birth, two with quintuplets and one with octotuplets, SO MANY BABIES. also these baby snatchers might be useful to me in the future. also i made the kobold equivalent of a atom smasher at my front gates, that also flings animals very far. next the the goblins come they will fear the raining of moose.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Aseaheru on October 02, 2012, 06:38:52 pm
i REALLY dont like the no stone. can't there be, say, a single type of stone boids can dig and get material from?
also, can there be a ziped download? i dont have anything that can get into RAR files and i REALLY dislike WinRar.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on October 02, 2012, 08:07:22 pm
Kobolds can dig native gold...
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Aseaheru on October 02, 2012, 08:23:08 pm
...... is that stone?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: GreatWyrmGold on October 02, 2012, 09:56:17 pm
Yes, unless you smelt it.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Aseaheru on October 03, 2012, 02:26:18 pm
its a ORE. who uses ORE for building?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: sradac on December 28, 2012, 12:07:28 pm
So, I havent had a chance to download this mod yet but its looking pretty awesome, minus 1 feature.

I've been reading the release notes and comments, and I have not seen it mentioned anywhere to give your kobold civilization the ability to do the 1 key kobold thing thats makes them as cool as they are: thievery!

If I am wrong, completely disregard this, but as I said I dont see it anywhere.

So here is my idea on how this could be implemented while working withing current DF mechanics:

AFAIK, there is no way to have a member of your civilization "leave" the map and come back later, which is why I cant launch counter attacks against those goblins that murdered 30 of my dwarves including children yesterday!!!!

Anyways, here is a way I think you could work around this with a workshop type:

The Thieves Den (Feel free to think of a better name)

It is a workshop type that is a little hut / dugin area.  Kobolds can use this for different job types such as Planning (Increase the success for stealing jobs), Scouting (Increases the chance of a kobold getting better goods, and to NOT DIE), and actual thieving missions.

In order for this to "work" you would need to simulate your kobold "leaving" and I think you could accomplish this by having the kobold "lock them selves in" to the den (Like when someone gets a strange mood and they lock themselves in a workshop).  That way it will be as if they are no longer on the map since they will do nothing but sit in the den, but in reality they are.

Once the job is done, they leave the den and carry about their business.

For the final part of "realism" for this, and I dont know if its possible, restrict the building of this workshop to only being able to be built at the edge of the map.  That way, it will be as if the kobold is "embarking" from the map for this location, and they return there when the job is done.

So with proper planning and scouting, a kobold might return from a thieving job after 2 or 3 months with something really nice or useful.  A barrel of meat, some metal bars, a weapon, some armor.  With poor planning and scouting, a kobold might come back with some garbage like a barrel of plump helmets or just a little bit of booze.  Or they might just die.  Thats always possible.

Not only would it really make the Kobolds feel complete, it would add another dimension to them and their survival.  Having serious problems with meat?  Train up your thieves with scouting and planning missions, send em out, and pray they dont do something stupid like getting themselves killed.

Maybe even give them target "types" to influence what they come back with.  You might not be able to say "Come back with a barrel of prepared water buffalo meat"  because that might not even be available wherever they go, but setting meat as a target could INFLUENCE them to snatch that.  It is no guarantee, because maybe they get spotted by those lousy dwarves and they just grab the first thing they see.  So they come back with a wonderful wooden chair...

Ideas?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Meph on December 28, 2012, 05:17:18 pm
Remotely possible. You can lock them in by transforming them into something immobile. You cant restrict the workshop to the map-edge, or affect chances of success by adding items, except you do write a lot of reactions. And I mean literally hundrets, especially considering that you want to target specific goods to be stolen as well. But in essence, it would be possible. I only wish it would be less... clutchy ^^
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Lagotrope on January 03, 2013, 06:03:39 am
Quote from: sradac on December 28, 2012, 12:07:28 pm
So, I havent had a chance to download this mod yet but its looking pretty awesome, minus 1 feature.

I've been reading the release notes and comments, and I have not seen it mentioned anywhere to give your kobold civilization the ability to do the 1 key kobold thing thats makes them as cool as they are: thievery!

If I am wrong, completely disregard this, but as I said I dont see it anywhere.

So here is my idea on how this could be implemented while working withing current DF mechanics:

AFAIK, there is no way to have a member of your civilization "leave" the map and come back later, which is why I cant launch counter attacks against those goblins that murdered 30 of my dwarves including children yesterday!!!!

Anyways, here is a way I think you could work around this with a workshop type:

The Thieves Den (Feel free to think of a better name)

It is a workshop type that is a little hut / dugin area.  Kobolds can use this for different job types such as Planning (Increase the success for stealing jobs), Scouting (Increases the chance of a kobold getting better goods, and to NOT DIE), and actual thieving missions.

In order for this to "work" you would need to simulate your kobold "leaving" and I think you could accomplish this by having the kobold "lock them selves in" to the den (Like when someone gets a strange mood and they lock themselves in a workshop).  That way it will be as if they are no longer on the map since they will do nothing but sit in the den, but in reality they are.

Once the job is done, they leave the den and carry about their business.

For the final part of "realism" for this, and I dont know if its possible, restrict the building of this workshop to only being able to be built at the edge of the map.  That way, it will be as if the kobold is "embarking" from the map for this location, and they return there when the job is done.

So with proper planning and scouting, a kobold might return from a thieving job after 2 or 3 months with something really nice or useful.  A barrel of meat, some metal bars, a weapon, some armor.  With poor planning and scouting, a kobold might come back with some garbage like a barrel of plump helmets or just a little bit of booze.  Or they might just die.  Thats always possible.

Not only would it really make the Kobolds feel complete, it would add another dimension to them and their survival.  Having serious problems with meat?  Train up your thieves with scouting and planning missions, send em out, and pray they dont do something stupid like getting themselves killed.

Maybe even give them target "types" to influence what they come back with.  You might not be able to say "Come back with a barrel of prepared water buffalo meat"  because that might not even be available wherever they go, but setting meat as a target could INFLUENCE them to snatch that.  It is no guarantee, because maybe they get spotted by those lousy dwarves and they just grab the first thing they see.  So they come back with a wonderful wooden chair...

Ideas?

I definitely would have loved to include some sort of thievery act or workaround, but there are a few reasons why I haven't.

First off, I've been neglecting the mod just plain too much as is, I haven't even got around to tiny little fixes such as a couple typos and quirks. Secondly, and goes hand in hand with the first, I haven't been keeping up with the newer aspects of modding. And thirdly, Meph said much of what I would say, only shorter.

For instance, to 'lock' a kobold in as a workaround to having them act as though they are off the map may be troublesome. The locking themselves in via a strange mood isn't something that can be freely called upon, and even if it was, then they wouldn't be able to eat or drink and could very likely die while in there. It may have to be what meph suggested, to transform them into an inanimate object. However, I also don't know how plausible that is. By all means I'd love to be directed/shown what can be done with this, but I could see it inviting a plethora of issues. It would have to be possible to make them not have to eat or drink to circumvent that issue. And to reiterate, it is impossible to say that such and such building can only be built on the edge of the map, but that isn't the biggest deal anyways.

I think that is the main barrier though, the issue of just locking them in the workshop. There are many reactions needed. but it's doable. Scouting/planning, if it works like that, might just yield an actual item for 'blueprints' and 'maps' or somesuch, and the Den could have reactions that require those items, and simply have better items/higher probability of success. Been so long I'm not sure how easy doing that would be.

And then there could be major issues that would fly in the face of the emulation. For instance, a siege could just so happen to come by right through the workshop's path and kill the kobold locked in there, despite supposedly being out in the field. Overall, I do think the best case scenario would only work under controlled environments and still feel pretty hacky overall.

In short, again I'd love to have this included, but I think that current implementation just isn't adequate to do so decently. I am hoping for the eventual case of being able to send citizens off the map on customizable missions so that kobold thievery can be a legitimate thing.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Meph on January 03, 2013, 12:44:44 pm
You could have a look at the expedition system in my mod, it is exactly the same. Instead of a starting point, you could make the workshop look like a tunnel, and have kobolds dissappear from the map that way. Would also make sense for them to evade siegers like that.

What happened to the crude metalworking and shamans, and fur from animals ? I see parts of this in the raws, or see it mentioned in the thread, but its not a feature of the mod (?)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Lagotrope on January 04, 2013, 12:27:21 am
Quote from: Meph on January 03, 2013, 12:44:44 pm
You could have a look at the expedition system in my mod, it is exactly the same. Instead of a starting point, you could make the workshop look like a tunnel, and have kobolds dissappear from the map that way. Would also make sense for them to evade siegers like that.

What happened to the crude metalworking and shamans, and fur from animals ? I see parts of this in the raws, or see it mentioned in the thread, but its not a feature of the mod (?)

I think I trimmed some of the more deprecated parts of the mod that built up over time, but as a result some actually wanted features got removed. I'll put them on the todo list if they're not already, for when I get around to making an update.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Meph on January 04, 2013, 12:37:15 am
I do ask, because I did add it as an optional feature into my modpack and would like to improve it if possible.

Is there any part of your to do list that I could help with? I can also make any part of the masterwork mod available for this.

I also made a Kobold head logo, for my GUI. Looks like this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Lagotrope on January 04, 2013, 12:51:49 pm
Quote from: Aseaheru on October 02, 2012, 06:38:52 pm
i REALLY dont like the no stone. can't there be, say, a single type of stone boids can dig and get material from?
also, can there be a ziped download? i dont have anything that can get into RAR files and i REALLY dislike WinRar.

I missed this one, sorry for the incredibly late reply. I believe Chert and some other stone can be dug into, still, by default. However, if you want to be able to dig through all stone, it isn't too hard to change. From the base folder, in \raw\objects\, there are two files called inorganic_stone_layer.txt and inorganic_stone_mineral.txt. They're modified for KC, but you can just replace them with the vanilla DF versions of those files, and they'll become diggable.

Quote from: Meph on September 28, 2012, 06:35:03 pm
I can be mistaken, but isnt ITEM_TOOL_CHUNK missing from the download (I tried the raw-only version)

This is very likely a mistake on my part, not me deciding not to include it. I don't remember it, so I'll have to take a look again to make sure that is actually the case.

In regards to shamans, as of 1.3 the altar reactions were removed "until working properly", so something needed reworking there. I don't recall what that was, but chances are I imagine it shouldn't be too hard to fix.

I believe metal shaper was removed, because in the end I allowed for furnace operation, weapon/armorsmithing etc. Since that stuff could be done through vanilla means, it became redundant for the metal shaper building and reactions therein. As usual, caravans would likely be needed for the bulk of copper/silver/etc retrieving by default. Once altars are back in, that'll likely include means of gaining such materials. I believe I made it so that Ore would appear in soil layers and be diggable there, but I don't remember if this was tested successfully. There are also reactions in the craftsbold workshop I believe that allow for breaking down metal equipment and getting the metal back. Except that might have been made redundant as well, since I'm pretty sure furnace operation covers that. I'm going to need to actually play a fort to remember what is even going on.

I still just have no idea what happened to getting fur from animals. Might need to just fix that from scratch or do something new with it.

Quote from: Meph on January 04, 2013, 12:37:15 am
Is there any part of your to do list that I could help with? I can also make any part of the masterwork mod available for this.

Thanks for the offer. I think the biggest thing that would need work is just Altar working since apparently that got messed up somehow. Also the re-introduction of fur from animals, my memory is so shoddy I don't even remember that. I would also certainly be willing to give a Thieves Den building a shot and see how that can turn out.
Otherwise, the other stuff in the post pretty much covers the To Do list as I know it, if you have input there.

When it comes down to it, if I get handed the raws for stuff, I'll throw them in and see how they work. Like I said, I need to thoroughly playtest a fort or two anyways, not just load it up and make sure it doesn't crash.

Quote from: Meph on January 04, 2013, 12:37:15 am
I also made a Kobold head logo, for my GUI.
That is some pretty fancy stuff you've included in your mod.

Actually, I think I forgot to mention before, I also just haven't been keeping up this mod for awhile since I more or less wanted to tie it off for the time being, and pick it up again when a new major release is had. No idea when that might be though, if an ETA was mentioned, then I missed it. Either way, there's still all that stuff that I'd like to add/re-add first.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Meph on January 04, 2013, 01:26:32 pm
In that case you better play a few forts, and see what needs to be done on your end. I will look through my mod, and see what yould fit the kobold theme, and if I find anything, I will post some raws. For example a "wolfs den" building that lets you spawn a couple of guard-wolves I personally would like.

ETA on the next version has not been posted, but there wont be much for fortress mode anyway. Mostly Legends and Adv. Mode. Multiple-tile trees and mushrooms will be in fort mode... besides that, no idea what else made it.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: FengYun on January 05, 2013, 11:08:26 am
If I am not mistaken, some guys said the next release date is planned to be in March:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120440.msg3876436#msg3876436 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120440.msg3876436#msg3876436)

And I would also like to see Kobold camp being developed further: add thieving and other cool stuff. Really like the idea of this mod, especially since it will be in Masterwork now.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Meph on January 05, 2013, 04:10:54 pm
I noticed that you dont have full sprites for the bolds... beefmo Solifuge made a kobolds grphic pack a while ago, I ported it to 34.11 with the new animated tags, and added a brown/generic background, the way the phoebus graphics are set up.

(http://i.imgur.com/Zjf3a.png)

Spoiler: graphics_kobold_camp.txt (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Solifuge on January 07, 2013, 08:35:01 pm
I'd love to see a new version of Kobold Camp one of these days. Always loved the mod.

I did a bit of a double take when I saw those sprites though, Meph... I remember what Beefmo's Kobolds (http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/kobold.png) looked like, and these looked like ones I thought I'd drawn (though I didn't recognize a lot of them). I did a little archive-diving to settle my confusion.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=27088.msg786373#msg786373 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=27088.msg786373#msg786373)

I'm not a stickler for getting credit or whatever, but I'm curious how mah doods got there. Did Beefmo end up merging those sprites with his old pack, or did someone expand on them between then and now? Whatever the case, your new port looks nice! I especially like the hats made of skulls... and some of the zombie soldiers remind me of Ninja Turtles. :P
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Meph on January 07, 2013, 08:51:54 pm
The beefmo graphics you posted are his gnomes. I found the sprites in an old version of digdwarvier/digdeeper, and all race-sprites have a "beefmo" at the bottom, except three. Templars, darkevles and koboldz. I naturally assumed that all were done by beefmo, because there was no other name of any author to be seen.

I am sorry, these are indeed yours then.

And to clarify I didnt make any of those, not even the skull-hats or zombies. I only added the background, because it was the old pink style. All professions were already done.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Solifuge on January 08, 2013, 02:19:23 am
Really, it's not even an issue. I was mostly surprised they were still around, and wondered who expanded on them, and when. Also, the graphics I linked definitely weren't first intended as Gnomes, but maybe they were used for them in DigDeeper? Here's the original Beefmo graphics thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=34834.msg531199#msg531199), to support that point. Somewhere, there were even some half-completed elf sprites in his style, which might be of use if elves aren't already taken care of.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Lagotrope on January 11, 2013, 04:29:19 pm
I'll be having some spare time in the next week or so to run through some forts and pin down what could/should be done, and I'd love to actually have a completed sheet. So if the sprites all work (I don't see why they wouldn't), then Solifuge willing, I may place his spritesheet as the default. Maybe if I suddenly get inspired to do some spritework I can finish haggle's spritesheet, since while I know it isn't quite complete, I don't think there are that many missing sprites if my faulty memory serves. Not a priority though, as long as there's at least 1 completed spriteset.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Meph on January 11, 2013, 05:15:54 pm
I think they are all there. You have to delete that Guard and Royalguard entries though, they dont exist in 34 anymore. They popped up in my errorlog when I tested this, just replace all guard and royalguard entries with "default", thats it.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Meph on January 13, 2013, 12:16:36 pm
Sorry for the double post, but I made some changes on the mod.

Next version of masterwork, which I will upload today (V.2f) will have this:

 - Kobold specific embark profile
 - Kobold language
 - Kobold sprites
 - 13 workshops, 3 furnaces, and a couple hundret reactions, taken from masterwork mod. Mostly farming and furniture themed.
 - Wooden mechanisms (seems kind of important), querns and millstones
 - About 100 new reaction for tanner, kitchen, still, craftsbold, screwpress and quern/millstone.
 - Upgrade system for leather, scale, shell and chitin armor. Taken from masterwork, guess kobolds will benefit from this the most.
 - Simple caste system. Every fourth kobold will be good at a specific skill, but learn all others slower.

I seperated the vanilla buildings, the kobold camp buildings and the masterwork buildings very clearly ingame. Would be great if you could have a look and see if you need anything for here. :)
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Lagotrope on January 13, 2013, 06:30:21 pm
Quote from: Meph on January 13, 2013, 12:16:36 pm
Sorry for the double post, but I made some changes on the mod.

Next version of masterwork, which I will upload today (V.2f) will have this:

 - Kobold specific embark profile
 - Kobold language
 - Kobold sprites
 - 13 workshops, 3 furnaces, and a couple hundret reactions, taken from masterwork mod. Mostly farming and furniture themed.
 - Wooden mechanisms (seems kind of important), querns and millstones
 - About 100 new reaction for tanner, kitchen, still, craftsbold, screwpress and quern/millstone.
 - Upgrade system for leather, scale, shell and chitin armor. Taken from masterwork, guess kobolds will benefit from this the most.
 - Simple caste system. Every fourth kobold will be good at a specific skill, but learn all others slower.

I seperated the vanilla buildings, the kobold camp buildings and the masterwork buildings very clearly ingame. Would be great if you could have a look and see if you need anything for here. :)

Oh, yeah, I'll definitely take a look and likely implement a lot of that stuff when I get around to it. I once did have a kobold embark profile and language, although the profiles I lost interest in since often things won't be available to a certain region and you have to go in and buy stuff anyway. And the language I may have just not worked on, but I did that DF language generator while attempting to keep the normal [GIBBERISH] language feel, and while that certainly kept a lot of the syllables together, it did make the names exceedingly long. I'll see what you've got for both though like I say, and I certainly am interested in all of those remaining reactions.

Wooden mechanisms SHOULD be in kobold camp as is in some building or another, but it has been awhile since that section was tested. God knows there's been a lot of modding that just up and vanished because ???
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Squeegy on January 15, 2013, 10:15:57 pm
So is this at all functional? I tried making a bone spear in the scrimshaw, apparently I produced a sling instead.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Tark on January 20, 2013, 02:38:10 am
Guess I should post this in here too. I updated those cutebold sprites, added quite a few more jobs. These're meant for the MW but hell they would work for this too!
http://filesmelt.com/dl/KC_Alternative_Graphics2.7z (http://filesmelt.com/dl/KC_Alternative_Graphics2.7z)
Still have a few more to do though, expect an update sometime I guess.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Meph on January 20, 2013, 04:27:56 am
Got more reports like the one by squeegy. Your scrimshawer tries to make ITEM_WEAPON_KOBOLD_DAGGER or ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_KOBOLD but they dont exist in your raws.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: CaptainKobold on January 21, 2013, 02:54:35 am
The scrimshawer definitely has some weird things going on.  I'll admit that I've been away from DF for a little while, so I may be not perfectly helpful on this, but here's what I'm seeing as problems:

Craft Bone Sword: I don't actually see a sword in the kobold item list at all.  There IS a training machete so the idea is probably to have a machete.
Craft Bone Spear: Spears have been replaced with pointy sticks, so I believe the code could be replaced as follows
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Craft Bone Dagger: Same issue as the machete, we've got a training dagger but no actual dagger.
Craft Bone/Shell Hammer: There also isn't a bone/shell hammer under item_kobold, though there are bone throwing hammers which don't appear to be listed as a kobold reaction.
Craft Bone Chopper: Choppers appear to be incorrectly referenced as ITEM_WEAPON_AXE_CHOPPERS. 
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Craft Bone Shovel: Looks to be in order to me!

I'm not sure about ranged weapons (as I was pretty much just looking at the basic melee bone weapons) but I think those are the major scrimshawer problems.  I'm not sure if this is the case in game, but I'm also noticing that item_kobold has a banded skirt, shin guards, and a shield, but no chest armor.  That also could be a matter of design choice.  If there is anything I can help with for Kobold Camp, please let me know!  I'm trying to get back into playing and would be happy to assist

Also, I was planning on looking at the kobold items to add in interesting attack-descriptions there (definitely for my own amusement, possibly to offer if KC or Masterwork wanted them), but don't yet know what the strings mean.  I'm sure you both have more important things to do, but I'll let you know if I come up with anything!
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Squeegy on January 21, 2013, 03:06:32 am
Lagotrope said that he was working on fixing it and releasing a new version.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Lagotrope on January 21, 2013, 08:12:41 pm
Yes, I didn't realize the scrimshawer was so messed up. At some point I made a bunch of name changes to item_weapon_kobold and didn't make the appropriate changes elsewhere, a rather amazing mistake that makes me wonder if I didn't just completely accidentally copy/paste an old raw.

I'm still doing some playtests and all that, although I should likely make a patch soon just to fix that sort of thing. Since while KC's gotten rough around the edges, the scrimshaw is just borked.

Quote from: CaptainKobold on January 21, 2013, 02:54:35 am
I'm not sure about ranged weapons (as I was pretty much just looking at the basic melee bone weapons) but I think those are the major scrimshawer problems.  I'm not sure if this is the case in game, but I'm also noticing that item_kobold has a banded skirt, shin guards, and a shield, but no chest armor.  That also could be a matter of design choice.  If there is anything I can help with for Kobold Camp, please let me know!  I'm trying to get back into playing and would be happy to assist

Also, I was planning on looking at the kobold items to add in interesting attack-descriptions there (definitely for my own amusement, possibly to offer if KC or Masterwork wanted them), but don't yet know what the strings mean.  I'm sure you both have more important things to do, but I'll let you know if I come up with anything!

I certainly will accept help when offered, but as mentioned, I am currently playtesting just to see what does need doing to clean up things. Although, if you do drop some raws for attack descriptions (or anything for that matter) then I will peruse them and most likely put them in.

Speaking of that, I still need to successfully put in solifuge's spritesheet. Attempting it once just led to the default 'k' for kobold graphics. Ever since 2010 it sort of felt like sometimes the graphics wouldn't work for no reason whatsoever, but maybe that's only been a problem with me.

From the graphic files Meph left, I changed the initial text to match the spritesheet at /solifuge/kobold.png:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Everything else in the raw is copy/pasted and wasn't changed. If someone knows offhand how I messed it up, that would be great.

Quote from: Tark on January 20, 2013, 02:38:10 am
Guess I should post this in here too. I updated those cutebold sprites, added quite a few more jobs.

Awesome. I'm not sure why I took the original graphics out, but that's been par for the course lately. I'll be putting them back in, when graphics start cooperating for me.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: dirkdragonslayer on February 13, 2013, 07:40:48 pm
After hunting everything around me to death, i realised i need to mod in a bacon tree with my new(ish) modding experience... if i do find out how to do a bacon tree, can i post the RAWs here?
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: fishsicles on March 22, 2013, 09:55:56 am
So, is there going to be an ASCII version of this?
It comes well recommended, but I can never figure out what things are in tilesets. I tried disabling graphics in init.txt, but it seems ineffective.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Meph on March 22, 2013, 01:32:18 pm
I somehow feel bad about this, but there is an ascii version of the kobold camp I include in the masterwork mod. Its a different kobold experience however. I rewrote it from scratch, only the name stayed.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Ahrimans Library Card on March 22, 2013, 02:39:06 pm
Posted my bug in the wrong thread.

I'm using the updated version of Masterwork, but nothing appears to have changed except for Embark Profiles. Spiders let Trolls rampage past without webbing them, and my Kobolds constantly complain about not having a path to clean. It's insanely frustrating.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Meph on March 22, 2013, 04:59:28 pm
Ahriman... this is the wrong thread. I know it can be confusing, but I wrote my own kobold camp version for masterwork. I included this one here first, but it was too buggy and too unfinished, so I wrote my own one.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Ahrimans Library Card on March 23, 2013, 06:25:49 am
Now I'm just confused. Do I post my bug in the main masterwork thread? Seeing as how I would end up bungling my way throough 5 threads with the word Kobold Camp in them before I found the right one, could you just post a link? As you can tell, I'm the master of first impressions.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: smakemupagus on March 23, 2013, 12:51:59 pm
Quote from: Ahrimans Library Card on March 23, 2013, 06:25:49 am
Now I'm just confused. Do I post my bug in the main masterwork thread? Seeing as how I would end up bungling my way throough 5 threads with the word Kobold Camp in them before I found the right one, could you just post a link? As you can tell, I'm the master of first impressions.

This thread is for the stand-alone original Kobold Camp.  The thread title tells you, it is for vanilla DF34.11.

The thread for Meph's MasterworkDF Kobold Camp is the other one (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=123343.msg4122322#msg4122322), with both Kobold Camp and Masterwork in the title.
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: Gigabytebob on February 27, 2017, 08:32:53 am
it still work  ???
Title: Re: Kobold Camp (Version 1.51 for DF 34.11, last update 07/01/2012)
Post by: spudcosmic on March 11, 2017, 10:31:18 pm
With the next release we'll be able to send out our own kobold thieves.