Bay 12 Games Forum

Dwarf Fortress => DF Modding => Masterwork DF => Topic started by: Meph on May 27, 2014, 12:43:15 pm

Title: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on May 27, 2014, 12:43:15 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/dKY795Q.png)
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on May 27, 2014, 12:44:13 pm
Please post all discussion, questions, suggestions and bug reports for Gnomes in this thread. Thank you.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Jaso11111 on May 27, 2014, 01:20:21 pm
I love that Gnome img XD
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Innocent Dave on May 28, 2014, 04:16:14 am
So, I've finally found the willpower to leave the dwarves alone, and since one of my most common Fortress Death Scenarios involves goblins butchering my defenseless population while I'm still trying to make an intricate minecart system for my stonecutters, I decided to give the gnomes a go :)

Having read through the manual, I have just one question:  When is it beneficial for a gnome to survive, but be unable to move, with "no functioning brain"?  Do they grow back?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on May 28, 2014, 04:21:23 am
Well, they dont die to headshots... and transformations do fully heal them. But maybe the damaged brains heal, just like eyes do in DF.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 28, 2014, 04:44:39 am
So, I've finally found the willpower to leave the dwarves alone, and since one of my most common Fortress Death Scenarios involves goblins butchering my defenseless population while I'm still trying to make an intricate minecart system for my stonecutters, I decided to give the gnomes a go :)

Having read through the manual, I have just one question:  When is it beneficial for a gnome to survive, but be unable to move, with "no functioning brain"?  Do they grow back?

The Life Support armor?  It actually doesn't prevent all movement (they should still be able to crawl somewhat, just not stand or fight).  I don't know if brains grow back, but if not you can give them a clockborg brainjack to replace it.  The ability to prevent drowning or suffocation can also come in handy.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on May 28, 2014, 06:50:00 am
Quote
...\Dwarf Fortress\hack\scripts/construct-creature.lua:565: attempt to get length of global 'args' (a nil value)
stack traceback:
        ...\Dwarf Fortress\hack\scripts/construct-creature.lua:565: in main chunk
        (...tail calls...)
I get this when I start up DF, using your newest update. The current release MDF has Gnomes .77, while your Gnome thread had a .78 with some more bugfixes. Is that error message just because the scripts needs a loaded world?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 28, 2014, 07:00:05 am
It could be.  I don't recall seeing that particular error, but it's probably trying to read nonexistent raws or something of the sort.  Shouldn't have any effect on gameplay but I'll try and fix it for neatness' sake.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Rumrusher on May 28, 2014, 09:35:10 am
Wait what this bit about firing cages at people to trap them?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 28, 2014, 10:41:42 am
Wait what this bit about firing cages at people to trap them?

It is exactly what it sounds like.  Turn cages into ammo, shoot at target, target is caged.  Caging big creatures is harder, you have to injure them first.  If you miss or fail to capture the target, the projectile turns back into a cage.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on May 28, 2014, 07:38:58 pm
McTeellox did send me the output of a script that finds unused reactions. (defined, but dont exist. Or exist, but are not permitted.)

The gnomes have a lot of those, but I most of the are dfhack hooks. I just want to make sure.



There are also some duplicate hotkeys: The number in the brackets, like (#) shows how often a hotkey is used in the same building. Seems you have 14 reactions in the catapult that use CUSTOM_A. ;)

Spoiler: Hotkeys (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Arcvasti on May 28, 2014, 08:03:14 pm
Quote from: Arcvasti
Quote from: Arcvasti
Quote from: Arcvasti
PTW
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 28, 2014, 11:18:45 pm
Some of those reactions are placeholders for things that I haven't gotten working or holdovers from earlier versions, but a few are not supposed to be disabled, I'll have to go over them and check.  I'm making a few changes for the next update, so I'll go over them.  However, the smelting reactions and others that are assigned to be used by factories are supposed to be disabled, they are used by the machina script to make custom (mod specific) automatic factory processes.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on May 29, 2014, 05:37:38 am
Quote
how you open crate bought at embark?
They are tools that are unpacked automatically in the Trade Storehouse. A custom workshop just for that.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 29, 2014, 02:43:58 pm
So I'm going to try doing a tutorial fort. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=138965.0)

Probably won't last too long but someone has to do it.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Remuthra on May 29, 2014, 02:49:17 pm
Gnomes: Harnessing the power of Steam for unrivaled medieval software streaming.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on May 29, 2014, 06:10:56 pm
I'd be very interested to see the actual ingame value of these two ammo types. I assume that a 25-stack is worth quite a bit:

Code: [Select]
[ITEM_AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_RAILGUN_GNOME]
[NAME:magnetic slug:magnetic slugs]
[CLASS:RAILGUN_GNOME]
[SIZE:600]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:100:200:hit:hits:NO_SUB:2000]

[ITEM_AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_RAILBOW_GNOME]
[NAME:magnetic bolt:magnetic bolts]
[CLASS:RAILBOW_GNOME]
[SIZE:600]
[ATTACK:EDGE:10:200:hit:hits:NO_SUB:2000]
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 29, 2014, 06:48:06 pm
I'd be very interested to see the actual ingame value of these two ammo types. I assume that a 25-stack is worth quite a bit:

Code: [Select]
[ITEM_AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_RAILGUN_GNOME]
[NAME:magnetic slug:magnetic slugs]
[CLASS:RAILGUN_GNOME]
[SIZE:600]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:100:200:hit:hits:NO_SUB:2000]

[ITEM_AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_RAILBOW_GNOME]
[NAME:magnetic bolt:magnetic bolts]
[CLASS:RAILBOW_GNOME]
[SIZE:600]
[ATTACK:EDGE:10:200:hit:hits:NO_SUB:2000]

They are created only through reactions, and expensive ones at that.  So you won't get a 25-stack.  But a single direct hit to the torso can propel the victim several tiles and splatter them against obstacles.  Arena testing is fun :)
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on May 29, 2014, 07:16:10 pm
The value was the questions. ;) But if they are custom made and rare, thats no issue.

I just know that javelins and cannonballs with size 300-400 easily go into 10.000 value, and your ammo is size 600.

Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 30, 2014, 06:50:26 am
I updated the druidism script.  Fixed a few bugs regarding animals being removed from the list when you uncondition them, made demerits from pet deaths disappear after a year, and made advanced training work by manipulating pet ownership instead of the invisible 'following unit' variable, so it is much easier to keep track of which animals are following who.  This does mean that animals can be made the 'pets' of other animals, and you can also dismiss pets from their owners or reassign work animals to new targets.

This does not require a new reload, just replace the druidism.lua script in the /hack/scripts folder and type 'druidism' into the console (or restart Dwarf Fortress).

DOWNLOAD LINK (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=8583)
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on May 30, 2014, 07:48:58 am
Is updated. :)

I noticed that the gnomes have no permitted instruments in the entity file, yet all other civs do have three unique instruments of their own. So I did add some.

Code: [Select]
/// gnomish instruments

[ITEM_INSTRUMENT:ITEM_INSTRUMENT_ORGAN]
[NAME:organ:organs]
[HARD_MAT]

[ITEM_INSTRUMENT:ITEM_INSTRUMENT_BANJO]
[NAME:banjo:banjos]
[HARD_MAT]

[ITEM_INSTRUMENT:ITEM_INSTRUMENT_ACCORDION]
[NAME:accordion:accordions]
[HARD_MAT]

Hope it fits. I added them to my dev version, but will replace them with something more fitting, if you want. Otherwise I will keep it like this. The instruments are not used in any reaction, its just for caravans and flavor. If no permitted instruments exist, your gnomes will make random ones, which includes things that might be unsuited for their theme, like bonerattles or haunting flutes. Or warlock-torture instruments, like iron maidens and thumbscrews. ;)

Edit: Mh... maybe Ukuleles would have fitted as well ^^



Edit2: You do have actual toys. I did use the string dump replacer to replace all toys with illumination. Thats where the brazier, candelabras and fireplaces come from. Even the stockpile is renamed. The problem is this: Players queue up "illumination" in the craftsgnome, and get 1 illumination on every 6 toys they make. Its a hardcoded reaction to make a random ITEM_TOY entry from the entity file.

Its a shame, I really like the names. Or you build your gnomish illumination with them as buildmat. "Lamp + doohickey = Glowing Lamp". :) "Candelabra + watchecallit = Glowing Candelabra". :)

Code: [Select]
[ITEM_TOY:ITEM_TOY_GNOME_1]
[NAME:gizmo:gizmos]
[HARD_MAT]

[ITEM_TOY:ITEM_TOY_GNOME_2]
[NAME:gadget:gadgets]
[HARD_MAT]

[ITEM_TOY:ITEM_TOY_GNOME_3]
[NAME:widgit:widgits]
[HARD_MAT]

[ITEM_TOY:ITEM_TOY_GNOME_4]
[NAME:doohickey:doohickeys]
[HARD_MAT]

[ITEM_TOY:ITEM_TOY_GNOME_5]
[NAME:thingamajig:thingamajigs]
[HARD_MAT]

[ITEM_TOY:ITEM_TOY_GNOME_6]
[NAME:watchamacallit:watchamacallits]
[HARD_MAT]
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: jaxy15 on May 31, 2014, 02:50:06 am
So, 3 of my gnomes are "friendly" and every so often another gnome "joins the merchants", even though we have no merchants. How do I stop this?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on May 31, 2014, 02:59:46 am
Type into dfhack "emigration 0"

Apparently a value of 10 is too high.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: jaxy15 on May 31, 2014, 12:06:23 pm
Is there a way to disable emigration permanently? It is so annoying.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Innocent Dave on May 31, 2014, 12:18:22 pm
DFHack.Init (located in your Dwarf Fortress folder) has "summon-hook emigration 10" on the first line.  This is the only hit for "emigration" anywhere in the file, and Meph's mentioned that the default value is 10, so reducing it to 0 should work.  I'll need to test this to confirm, though.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: palu on May 31, 2014, 01:24:21 pm
You can just put "emigration 0" in the dfhack.init, at the end.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 31, 2014, 03:27:50 pm
So, 3 of my gnomes are "friendly" and every so often another gnome "joins the merchants", even though we have no merchants. How do I stop this?

Out of curiosity, are there any dead merchants?

I think I found a small oversight in the code :)  Just want to make sure that it's the actual bug.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: jaxy15 on May 31, 2014, 03:29:17 pm
So, 3 of my gnomes are "friendly" and every so often another gnome "joins the merchants", even though we have no merchants. How do I stop this?

Out of curiosity, are there any dead merchants?

I think I found a small oversight in the code :)  Just want to make sure that it's the actual bug.
Nope.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on June 01, 2014, 04:56:30 pm
Tiny bugfix:

Quote
[REACTION:DFHACK_MACHINA_FACTORY_SMELT_REMOVE_RUST_IRON]
[NAME:remove rust from iron]
[BUILDING:DFHACK_MACHINA_FACTORY_SMELTER_GNOME:NONE]
[REAGENT:A:150:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:RUSTY_IRON]
[PRODUCT:100:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:IRON]

[REACTION:DFHACK_MACHINA_FACTORY_SMELT_REMOVE_RUST_STEEL]
[NAME:remove rust from iron]
[BUILDING:DFHACK_MACHINA_FACTORY_SMELTER_GNOME:NONE]
[REAGENT:A:150:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:RUSTY_STEEL]
[PRODUCT:100:1:BAR:NO_SUBTYPE:INORGANIC:STEEL]
and
Quote
[REACTION:DFHACK_MACHINA_FACTORY_SMELT_CASSITERITE]
[NAME:Smelt cassierite ore into tin bars]

Both things spotted by deon. :) I Changed cassierite into cassiterite, and the name of the steel reaction to say steel instead of iron.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: palu on June 02, 2014, 12:32:56 pm
The images in the gnome manual for the Nature Shrine, Millstone, Quern, and Cosmic Gear are the wrong size.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Newtons.Bit on June 02, 2014, 01:17:33 pm
May be a bug:
One can create a "heavy glass piston", but can't use it as a piston in the seismic telegraph building.  Can the glass piston be used anywhere else?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Arcvasti on June 02, 2014, 01:22:47 pm
May be a bug:
One can create a "heavy glass piston", but can't use it as a piston in the seismic telegraph building.  Can the glass piston be used anywhere else?

I think the problem here is that it calls for a "Rock/Metal" piston, so you can't use wood for it. Glass is not "Rock/Metal", so it doesn't work. Really, its only a bug if you think glass pistons can pound the ground hard enough to send signals through miles of earth without breaking.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 02, 2014, 01:23:23 pm
May be a bug:
One can create a "heavy glass piston", but can't use it as a piston in the seismic telegraph building.  Can the glass piston be used anywhere else?

All trap components can be made of wood, metal, or glass, but some buildings require a particular material type.
You can use them all in traps though.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Qenton on June 02, 2014, 01:43:14 pm
OK... I've looked everywhere including the manager's section and cannot find how to make a rock pipe/tube.   Apparently these are needed for the Arc Furnace and nothing else will do (Glass, wood and metal do not work.)   Am I missing something?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: BlackFlyme on June 02, 2014, 01:51:23 pm
OK... I've looked everywhere including the manager's section and cannot find how to make a rock pipe/tube.   Apparently these are needed for the Arc Furnace and nothing else will do (Glass, wood and metal do not work.)   Am I missing something?

Are you certain that metal won't work?

If something is referring to a rock material, it may actually mean any type of inorganic material, which is any stone, metal, or gem.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Qenton on June 02, 2014, 02:01:44 pm
OK... I've looked everywhere including the manager's section and cannot find how to make a rock pipe/tube.   Apparently these are needed for the Arc Furnace and nothing else will do (Glass, wood and metal do not work.)   Am I missing something?

Are you certain that metal won't work?

If something is referring to a rock material, it may actually mean any type of inorganic material, which is any stone, metal, or gem.

I tried building all of those... Glass pipes, copper Tube, wood pipe.   I didn't try a gem pipe (not quite sure how to make one of those).  However, I just found a solution, made an "Automatic Furniture Assembler" and that does have a way of making stone pipes.  :P  So OK, I guess ... problem solved in the Gnomiest way possible.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 02, 2014, 02:05:27 pm
OK... I've looked everywhere including the manager's section and cannot find how to make a rock pipe/tube.   Apparently these are needed for the Arc Furnace and nothing else will do (Glass, wood and metal do not work.)   Am I missing something?

Are you certain that metal won't work?

If something is referring to a rock material, it may actually mean any type of inorganic material, which is any stone, metal, or gem.

I tried building all of those... Glass pipes, copper Tube, wood pipe.   I didn't try a gem pipe (not quite sure how to make one of those).  However, I just found a solution, made an "Automatic Furniture Assembler" and that does have a way of making stone pipes.  :P  So OK, I guess ... problem solved in the Gnomiest way possible.

Odd.  Metal should work.  But stone pipes are cheaper anyway.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Jaso11111 on June 02, 2014, 03:01:51 pm
Are the clockwork constructs suppose to not have graphics?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 02, 2014, 03:35:18 pm
Are the clockwork constructs suppose to not have graphics?

The do not have graphics, since I never drew them.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on June 02, 2014, 03:55:01 pm
All those?

Quote
   Line 604: [CREATURE:CLOCKWORK_BEETLE_GNOME]
   Line 621: [CREATURE:CLOCKWORK_SCORPION_GNOME]
   Line 653: [CREATURE:CLOCKWORK_MOUSE_GNOME]
   Line 685: [CREATURE:CLOCKWORK_CUCKOO_GNOME]
   Line 718: [CREATURE:CLOCKWORK_CANARY_GNOME]
   Line 751: [CREATURE:CLOCKWORK_CHICKEN_GNOME]
   Line 784: [CREATURE:CLOCKWORK_CAT_GNOME]
   Line 816: [CREATURE:CLOCKWORK_RACCOON_GNOME]
   Line 849: [CREATURE:CLOCKWORK_TORTOISE_GNOME]
   Line 867: [CREATURE:CLOCKWORK_MONKEY_GNOME]
   Line 900: [CREATURE:CLOCKWORK_FALCON_GNOME]
   Line 934: [CREATURE:CLOCKWORK_BADGER_GNOME]
   Line 967: [CREATURE:CLOCKWORK_DOG_GNOME]
   Line 999: [CREATURE:CLOCKWORK_CARP_GNOME]
   Line 1032: [CREATURE:CLOCKWORK_SHEEP_GNOME]
   Line 1067: [CREATURE:CLOCKWORK_PANTHER_GNOME]
   Line 1099: [CREATURE:CLOCKWORK_GORILLA_GNOME]
   Line 1132: [CREATURE:CLOCKWORK_SHARK_GNOME]
   Line 1167: [CREATURE:CLOCKWORK_SPIDERTANK_GNOME]
   Line 1184: [CREATURE:CLOCKWORK_HORSE_GNOME]
   Line 1213: [CREATURE:CLOCKWORK_BEAR_GNOME]
   Line 1246: [CREATURE:CLOCKWORK_CROCODILE_GNOME]
   Line 1271: [CREATURE:CLOCKWORK_BULL_GNOME]
   Line 1307: [CREATURE:CLOCKWORK_ELEPHANT_GNOME]
   Line 1335: [CREATURE:CLOCKWORK_DRAGON_GNOME]

I can easily whip something up for those, if you like. :)
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 02, 2014, 04:56:04 pm
That would be good, Meph.

They should be able to come in any color - the caste color is determined in the script.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on June 02, 2014, 05:02:11 pm
That would mean a light-grey as basis, without own coloring. Maybe red robot eyes. ;)

But these are the ones? Nothing else that is missing sprites?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 02, 2014, 05:13:57 pm
Yeah, that's all of them.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on June 02, 2014, 05:59:08 pm
How are these?

(http://i.imgur.com/fevmxd9.png)
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 02, 2014, 06:00:34 pm
Those are quite nice.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on June 02, 2014, 06:01:26 pm
Ok, I will write a graphics file for them then and add them in the next update. None of the sprites are original content, they are all just copied, made grey, and got red eyes. ;)

Edit: Here, for testers:

Code: [Select]
graphics_gnome_constructs

[OBJECT:GRAPHICS]

[TILE_PAGE:GNOME_CONSTRUCTS]
[FILE:gnome_constructs.png]
[TILE_DIM:16:400]
[PAGE_DIM:1:25]

[CREATURE_GRAPHICS:CLOCKWORK_BEETLE_GNOME]
[DEFAULT:GNOME_CONSTRUCTS:0:0:ADD_COLOR:DEFAULT]
[CREATURE_GRAPHICS:CLOCKWORK_SCORPION_GNOME]
[DEFAULT:GNOME_CONSTRUCTS:0:1:ADD_COLOR:DEFAULT]
[CREATURE_GRAPHICS:CLOCKWORK_MOUSE_GNOME]
[DEFAULT:GNOME_CONSTRUCTS:0:2:ADD_COLOR:DEFAULT]
[CREATURE_GRAPHICS:CLOCKWORK_CUCKOO_GNOME]
[DEFAULT:GNOME_CONSTRUCTS:0:3:ADD_COLOR:DEFAULT]
[CREATURE_GRAPHICS:CLOCKWORK_CANARY_GNOME]
[DEFAULT:GNOME_CONSTRUCTS:0:4:ADD_COLOR:DEFAULT]
[CREATURE_GRAPHICS:CLOCKWORK_CHICKEN_GNOME]
[DEFAULT:GNOME_CONSTRUCTS:0:5:ADD_COLOR:DEFAULT]
[CREATURE_GRAPHICS:CLOCKWORK_CAT_GNOME]
[DEFAULT:GNOME_CONSTRUCTS:0:6:ADD_COLOR:DEFAULT]
[CREATURE_GRAPHICS:CLOCKWORK_RACCOON_GNOME]
[DEFAULT:GNOME_CONSTRUCTS:0:7:ADD_COLOR:DEFAULT]
[CREATURE_GRAPHICS:CLOCKWORK_TORTOISE_GNOME]
[DEFAULT:GNOME_CONSTRUCTS:0:8:ADD_COLOR:DEFAULT]
[CREATURE_GRAPHICS:CLOCKWORK_MONKEY_GNOME]
[DEFAULT:GNOME_CONSTRUCTS:0:9:ADD_COLOR:DEFAULT]
[CREATURE_GRAPHICS:CLOCKWORK_FALCON_GNOME]
[DEFAULT:GNOME_CONSTRUCTS:0:10:ADD_COLOR:DEFAULT]
[CREATURE_GRAPHICS:CLOCKWORK_BADGER_GNOME]
[DEFAULT:GNOME_CONSTRUCTS:0:11:ADD_COLOR:DEFAULT]
[CREATURE_GRAPHICS:CLOCKWORK_DOG_GNOME]
[DEFAULT:GNOME_CONSTRUCTS:0:12:ADD_COLOR:DEFAULT]
[CREATURE_GRAPHICS:CLOCKWORK_CARP_GNOME]
[DEFAULT:GNOME_CONSTRUCTS:0:13:ADD_COLOR:DEFAULT]
[CREATURE_GRAPHICS:CLOCKWORK_SHEEP_GNOME]
[DEFAULT:GNOME_CONSTRUCTS:0:14:ADD_COLOR:DEFAULT]
[CREATURE_GRAPHICS:CLOCKWORK_PANTHER_GNOME]
[DEFAULT:GNOME_CONSTRUCTS:0:15:ADD_COLOR:DEFAULT]
[CREATURE_GRAPHICS:CLOCKWORK_GORILLA_GNOME]
[DEFAULT:GNOME_CONSTRUCTS:0:16:ADD_COLOR:DEFAULT]
[CREATURE_GRAPHICS:CLOCKWORK_SHARK_GNOME]
[DEFAULT:GNOME_CONSTRUCTS:0:17:ADD_COLOR:DEFAULT]
[CREATURE_GRAPHICS:CLOCKWORK_SPIDERTANK_GNOME]
[DEFAULT:GNOME_CONSTRUCTS:0:18:ADD_COLOR:DEFAULT]
[CREATURE_GRAPHICS:CLOCKWORK_HORSE_GNOME]
[DEFAULT:GNOME_CONSTRUCTS:0:19:ADD_COLOR:DEFAULT]
[CREATURE_GRAPHICS:CLOCKWORK_BEAR_GNOME]
[DEFAULT:GNOME_CONSTRUCTS:0:20:ADD_COLOR:DEFAULT]
[CREATURE_GRAPHICS:CLOCKWORK_CROCODILE_GNOME]
[DEFAULT:GNOME_CONSTRUCTS:0:21:ADD_COLOR:DEFAULT]
[CREATURE_GRAPHICS:CLOCKWORK_BULL_GNOME]
[DEFAULT:GNOME_CONSTRUCTS:0:22:ADD_COLOR:DEFAULT]
[CREATURE_GRAPHICS:CLOCKWORK_ELEPHANT_GNOME]
[DEFAULT:GNOME_CONSTRUCTS:0:23:ADD_COLOR:DEFAULT]
[CREATURE_GRAPHICS:CLOCKWORK_DRAGON_GNOME]
[DEFAULT:GNOME_CONSTRUCTS:0:24:ADD_COLOR:DEFAULT]

And: (http://i.imgur.com/Zjguncv.png)
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 03, 2014, 12:16:33 am
I'll check.
Oh, that reminds me.  Can you add the ghost/zombie/skeleton graphics to the gnome file?  They're in the graphics image already (next to the miner, near the top left) but I wasn't able to get them to work.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on June 03, 2014, 06:17:45 am
Ghost is just one sprite, zombie/skeleton doesnt exist anymore, the wiki is outdated. But there is one "animated" sprite for each, so I will have a look. Shouldnt be too hard. :)

Your profession sprites look very similar, I think the gnome sprites could be improved a bit. I mean the blue and brown lines, with copy/paste gnomes. I assume they need different tools in their hands, or other outfits. I might try my hand on these as well.. I wanted to do human graphics today anyway.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on June 03, 2014, 06:51:23 pm
I tested the 25 pet sprites, they work fine.

I did not do anything on the gnome ghosts/animated ones.

And I still have this error in dfhack, when it starts up:

Code: [Select]
\Dwarf Fortress\hack\scripts/construct-creature.lua:563: attempt to get length of global 'args' (a nil value)
stack traceback:
        ...\Dwarf Fortress\hack\scripts/construct-creature.lua:563: in main chunk
        (...tail calls...)

[DFHack]#
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Corundum on June 07, 2014, 02:39:05 pm
Deleted by OP because irrelevant.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: palu on June 07, 2014, 03:03:01 pm
There's no wind there, mabye try building them somewhere else, but wind might be the same the whole embark.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: omniclasm on June 07, 2014, 05:31:36 pm
Do any of the special armors work?

Just tried rocket boots and couldn't tell a difference.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Corundum on June 07, 2014, 05:43:07 pm
I guessed that was the reason why they didn't work. I've never encountered no wind before on any of my previous embarks so I was a bit puzzled.

I noticed that nature really, really hates me (-39,000 at one point). Could it be because I caged so many creatures? Had a gnome die?

Related to this, when I went to release some creatures into the wild to help my rating, I assigned them to a pasture on the Nature Shrine. After the gnome released them, another gnome came along and put the animal back on the pasture again, despite it being a wild animal at this point.

This isn't the worst part.

When I tried to unassigned the creatures to the pasture while the gnome was leading it there, the gnome started spamming "cant do X, handing dangerous creature.". I had to make some cages for them to put the wild animals in for them to stop spamming error messages, then build the cages, connect to a lever and release them that way. This only happened if the gnome hadn't put the animal on the pasture yet and I unassigned the animal to the pasture.

Also, large glass pistons cant be used for the seismic telegraph.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: zach123b on June 07, 2014, 08:27:47 pm
is it just me or is starting up a metal industry with just a pick a tad difficult? i can't find a way to purify the ores, resulting in 20% or so chance of getting the metal..
i'm ending up with a whole lot of slag just to get enough metal for pipes and a sawblade..

and is there any vermin hunters the gnomes get? i never seem to find them in the list
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on June 07, 2014, 08:30:22 pm
The Arc furnace does purify ore...

(http://i61.tinypic.com/2hmkew5.png)
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: omniclasm on June 07, 2014, 08:31:42 pm
The problem is that it takes a lot of ore to even make an arc furnace...so you're basically just smelting for a 10% gain until that point.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: zach123b on June 07, 2014, 08:38:17 pm
sorry, i meant before the arc furnace.  it's a long grind to get up to it, i wrote the pipes and sawblade thinking about getting the blocks to make walls within the first year
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on June 07, 2014, 08:48:54 pm
In that case you have to wait for IndigoFenix to say something. Its probably intended.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: greycat on June 07, 2014, 10:03:46 pm
OK, this seismic telegraph thing has me stumped.

In the Clawedgears tutorial fortress (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=138965.msg5325050#msg5325050), the narrator mentions using "a few of the mechanisms" to build a seismic telegraph.  How?

In the Gnome Manual that ships with MWDF, the *Buildings* page says it requires "1 Metal bar, 4 Mechanisms, 8 Gears".  I can't figure out how to make gears, either.

If you actually try to build one in-game (b w Alt-q) it says "Needs heavy rock piston".  I've looked through most of the workshops I can make for an option to make a rock piston, and can't find one.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: omniclasm on June 07, 2014, 10:31:15 pm
Metalsmith's forge, under trap components (I think)
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Arcvasti on June 07, 2014, 10:41:12 pm
Gears are made in a craftsgnomes workshop. Heavy pistons are made in a forge under trap components. Only a metal or rock piston will work.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 08, 2014, 03:53:27 am
I noticed that nature really, really hates me (-39,000 at one point). Could it be because I caged so many creatures? Had a gnome die?

Related to this, when I went to release some creatures into the wild to help my rating, I assigned them to a pasture on the Nature Shrine. After the gnome released them, another gnome came along and put the animal back on the pasture again, despite it being a wild animal at this point.

This isn't the worst part.

When I tried to unassigned the creatures to the pasture while the gnome was leading it there, the gnome started spamming "cant do X, handing dangerous creature.". I had to make some cages for them to put the wild animals in for them to stop spamming error messages, then build the cages, connect to a lever and release them that way. This only happened if the gnome hadn't put the animal on the pasture yet and I unassigned the animal to the pasture.

Keeping creatures in cages is probably the problem.  This causes you to lose points where you would otherwise be gaining points.

While the continuously pasturing animals bug is known, removing them from the pasture is usually enough to fix it.  I've never seen that particular bug.  Do you know how to replicate it?  Edit: never mind, I see what happened.  I'll see if I can fix it.

sorry, i meant before the arc furnace.  it's a long grind to get up to it, i wrote the pipes and sawblade thinking about getting the blocks to make walls within the first year

It's supposed to be a long grind to produce the arc furnace (once you get it running it can process metal far faster than the ore processor), but this can be greatly alleviated if you take some metal with you (I strongly advise bringing along some copper and nickel bars).  Perhaps the dynamo could be added as an item that comes in a crate though, since it's so important for a metal based industry.
OK, this seismic telegraph thing has me stumped.

In the Clawedgears tutorial fortress (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=138965.msg5325050#msg5325050), the narrator mentions using "a few of the mechanisms" to build a seismic telegraph.  How?

In the Gnome Manual that ships with MWDF, the *Buildings* page says it requires "1 Metal bar, 4 Mechanisms, 8 Gears".  I can't figure out how to make gears, either.

If you actually try to build one in-game (b w Alt-q) it says "Needs heavy rock piston".  I've looked through most of the workshops I can make for an option to make a rock piston, and can't find one.

That line in the manual is out of date.  It's just a metal piston and a bunch of mechanisms now.  Pistons are made in the forge under trap components.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: omniclasm on June 08, 2014, 04:06:41 am
The "fixes" I posted make rocket boots actually work now.

And...OMG
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: greycat on June 08, 2014, 07:52:45 am
Heavy pistons are made in a forge under trap components. Only a metal or rock piston will work.

... and you can't actually make a rock piston, right?

I seem to have elfed myself into a corner here -- I only brought 2 nickel bars and an anvil with me on embark, and I haven't found a single speck of metallic ore yet.  If this were a vanilla Dwarf Fortress, I'd think "OK, fine, the caravan will bring me some metal". But with Gnomes it seems to be a bit of a catch-22.  I need(?) metal to make a piston to summon the Gnomish caravan to bring me metal.

Gears are made in a craftsgnomes workshop.

I can't find them.  Which may be OK since they're not required (yet?).
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: palu on June 08, 2014, 08:44:32 am
Rock just means inorganic, that is, metal or rock.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 08, 2014, 10:04:26 am
Heavy pistons are made in a forge under trap components. Only a metal or rock piston will work.

... and you can't actually make a rock piston, right?

I seem to have elfed myself into a corner here -- I only brought 2 nickel bars and an anvil with me on embark, and I haven't found a single speck of metallic ore yet.  If this were a vanilla Dwarf Fortress, I'd think "OK, fine, the caravan will bring me some metal". But with Gnomes it seems to be a bit of a catch-22.  I need(?) metal to make a piston to summon the Gnomish caravan to bring me metal.

Gears are made in a craftsgnomes workshop.

I can't find them.  Which may be OK since they're not required (yet?).

Well, you could just wait for the Dwarf caravan instead.  They usually have metal.
Meph wants to make the gnomes regular trading partners in a near-future update, so there won't be this problem anymore.  But for now, yes, you need metal for a piston.

Gears were removed a while ago (they were supposed to be smaller mechanisms, but since it took a boulder to make one anyway they were basically pointless).  I just forgot to update the manual.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Rubicon on June 09, 2014, 07:27:27 am
Playing a fort to learn Gnomes,  decided to try and using mechanical animals as defense.

I don't have iron on site, but sources of copper and tin are plentiful. Scrambled to get a couple of lesser copper animals (Bear and Gorilla) and then produced a bronze mechanical dragon at the start of the second year.

The three of them just fought the first goblin ambush (about 8-9 gobbos with rusty weaponry)....a little disappointing to be honest. The Dragon in particular really seemed to have trouble hitting them, the combat reports were just endless "but the goblin jumps away". The gorilla is totally trashed, the bear is leaking oil and missing a few parts, the dragon is battered. Eventually they got 3 kills, and the rest fled.

I can understand the copper animals being a bit useless, they were a stop-gap against thieves, but I expected the dragon to be a bit more killy. Perhaps because it doesn't have any skills?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on June 09, 2014, 07:36:46 am
Cant you add weapons to them to give them more abilities? And I assume that you can train them, give them combat skills?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: omniclasm on June 09, 2014, 07:40:28 am
The mechanical animals are super tanky.

Their offensive abilities are kind of awful, though.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 09, 2014, 07:53:53 am
Playing a fort to learn Gnomes,  decided to try and using mechanical animals as defense.

I don't have iron on site, but sources of copper and tin are plentiful. Scrambled to get a couple of lesser copper animals (Bear and Gorilla) and then produced a bronze mechanical dragon at the start of the second year.

The three of them just fought the first goblin ambush (about 8-9 gobbos with rusty weaponry)....a little disappointing to be honest. The Dragon in particular really seemed to have trouble hitting them, the combat reports were just endless "but the goblin jumps away". The gorilla is totally trashed, the bear is leaking oil and missing a few parts, the dragon is battered. Eventually they got 3 kills, and the rest fled.

I can understand the copper animals being a bit useless, they were a stop-gap against thieves, but I expected the dragon to be a bit more killy. Perhaps because it doesn't have any skills?

The mechanical animals don't have skills by default (although you can train them at the advanced animal training area), so the dragon will fare somewhat less effectively offensively than its megabeast counterpart, unless you make it out of a good metal and/or give it a fire turret.

Making a lot of small animals may be more effective than a small number of large ones, although you'll need to make more brains and motors.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: greycat on June 09, 2014, 03:10:02 pm
I occasionally get these errors (with "Recruit wild animal" on repeat in a nature shrine, but it might be from animals entering/leaving the map for all I know):
Code: [Select]
...usernam/df/MWDF/Dwarf Fortress/hack/scripts/druidism.lua:2288: Cannot read field vector<unit*>.33: index out of bounds.
stack traceback:
[C]: in function '__index'
...usernam/df/MWDF/Dwarf Fortress/hack/scripts/druidism.lua:2288: in function 'update'
...usernam/df/MWDF/Dwarf Fortress/hack/scripts/druidism.lua:2291: in function <...usernam/df/MWDF/Dwarf Fortress/hack/scripts/druidism.lua:2291>
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Rubicon on June 10, 2014, 01:50:30 am
The mechanical animals don't have skills by default (although you can train them at the advanced animal training area), so the dragon will fare somewhat less effectively offensively than its megabeast counterpart, unless you make it out of a good metal and/or give it a fire turret.

Making a lot of small animals may be more effective than a small number of large ones, although you'll need to make more brains and motors.

Cool. I had no idea they could be trained this way; I'll give it a try. (Because they come up on the "Citizens" list rather than "pets\livestock" it did not occur to me.) May be worth noting in future editions of the manual.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: omniclasm on June 10, 2014, 04:59:10 am
Oh, and if you're going to be wanting to get much into tinkering and gadgets...workflow is an amazing plugin.

You can set it to automatically keep between X and Y of a particular thing. You can automate the entire process, as long as you're supplying bars for sheets, you can have a constant supply of everything without having to manually juggle it.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: omniclasm on June 10, 2014, 06:16:49 am
Also, gnomes fully decked out in gadget gear are a force to be reckoned with.

At least if you use the fixed version of itemsyndromes. Those stat boosts are amazing.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 10, 2014, 06:25:28 am
Also, gnomes fully decked out in gadget gear are a force to be reckoned with.

At least if you use the fixed version of itemsyndromes. Those stat boosts are amazing.

Did you publish a fixed version?  I'm pretty sure they used to work.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: omniclasm on June 10, 2014, 06:33:06 am
I think Meph is adding my fixes to the newest version.

There were a few problems with it. One being that it wasn't reloading when the world was loaded, so it wasn't even loading the materials. Another one was that it was checking values of a variable that it never assigned.

I also made changes to make the syndromes expire "naturally" rather than just erasing them. Erasing them was causing major problems with some syndromes.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: omniclasm on June 10, 2014, 06:37:58 am
Just made a masterwork mithril vibroblade.

I think I just won the game.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Rubicon on June 11, 2014, 06:37:59 am
Has anyone got Thunder Coils to work? I'm having issues.

For starters, the manual suggests 'powering them from below". But they have to be constructed on all solid flooring, I tried powering them like attaching a gear to a windmill...no dice.

Then I tried putting a powered gear next to the edge tiles; no power.
Then with an axle going into the corner, like all other machines (love the arc furnace, btw. So cool.) When I request a readout, still says machine is not powered.

Putting about 270 power into three coils....is it just that they need more juice?

*edit* Hmm. Just connected one up by itself, got a power reading. So nothing wrong with the connections, just that if the power is too low, they will not have a reading at all. I need more power!



Also; bought some turrets from the dwarven caravan...they are slaughtering wildlife! Good thing I don't need nature.

*Edit Update*

Looks like I spoke too soon. Got 550 power going into the corner of one of the thunder coils, with a horizontal axle...nothing.
When I "take a reading", it says the machine is not powered. Note: This is exactly the same config that was giving me 'powered' on another coil. Something screwy going on.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Mithril Leaf on June 11, 2014, 07:03:49 am
Has anyone got Thunder Coils to work? I'm having issues.

For starters, the manual suggests 'powering them from below". But they have to be constructed on all solid flooring, I tried powering them like attaching a gear to a windmill...no dice.

Then I tried putting a powered gear next to the edge tiles; no power.
Then with an axle going into the corner, like all other machines (love the arc furnace, btw. So cool.) When I request a readout, still says machine is not powered.

Putting about 270 power into three coils....is it just that they need more juice?

*edit* Hmm. Just connected one up by itself, got a power reading. So nothing wrong with the connections, just that if the power is too low, they will not have a reading at all. I need more power!



Also; bought some turrets from the dwarven caravan...they are slaughtering wildlife! Good thing I don't need nature.

Might I suggest building a long underground tunnel to the edge of the map, installing a floodgate the tile before the very edge, engraving some fortifications into it, flooding it, pulling the floodgate up, then building a giant row of waterwheels on top of the now flowing stationary water?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Corundum on June 11, 2014, 11:24:23 am
How much power is required for a thunder coil to work? I have one all hooked up with 2000+ power going to it but a group of automatons just walked on by it.

I hooked it up by putting a gear assembly one tile away from the corner and on the same level as the thunder coil and then connecting it with a horizontal axle.

I believe something funny is going on with the power because I began having problems with power with my other factories that worked before I made the thunder coil. I need to do more testing to figure out why, but I think it's related. All I know is that when I saved, quit and reloaded the game all the factories worked again.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 11, 2014, 11:52:16 am
Just checked it out - there was a bug with the thunder coil that crashes the machina script.

Apparently it doesn't load the lightning material properly after reloading the game.  I've got it fixed for the next update, but for now, type 'machina' into the dfhack console and it should work.  (And with that much power going through it, you might want to stand back before you do :P)
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on June 11, 2014, 12:34:23 pm
Quote
after reloading the game.
Adding it to Onload.init in the raw folder wouldnt work?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: greycat on June 11, 2014, 01:15:41 pm
Stupid newbie question: where are "slag bars" located in the stockpile menu?  I'm trying to get my Gnomes to bring the slag bars from the smelter up to the slag pit using a wheelbarrow, which means creating a stockpile for them, but I can't find them under "Bars".

If they can't be stockpiled, is there some other sensible way to transport them to a target location?  Or do I have to build the slag pit right next to the smelter?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on June 11, 2014, 01:21:44 pm
No stockpiling for slag bars. They clutter up the smelter, or they go into the slag pit. So yes, build it next to it. (or dump them, I cant forbid that)
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: greycat on June 11, 2014, 03:16:01 pm
Two more bugs (v 5.05, Linux, ASCII, Gnomes):

After a little while I lost track of what happened to the "cheese".  At one point it was stockpiled in a pot/barrel by itself in my prepared meals stockpile.  Now I'm not sure whether someone ate it, or cooked it, or moved it.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on June 11, 2014, 03:24:08 pm
That second one is a bug across all races, but I have never seen it before. The bread reaction is ancient, from Old Genesis, I havent changed anything on it in literally years.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: greycat on June 11, 2014, 03:47:35 pm
In the Sawmill, both "====SKILL WOODCRAFT====" and "Break down wooden beds" use hotkey A.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on June 11, 2014, 03:50:59 pm
All three noted down. I'll fix it, although I cant really think of a reason why the bread shouldnt work. The other two are minor typos. IndigoFenix also send me a fix for the Thundercoil, which I can include for the next release. :)
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Rubicon on June 12, 2014, 01:20:39 am
All three noted down. I'll fix it, although I cant really think of a reason why the bread shouldnt work. The other two are minor typos. IndigoFenix also send me a fix for the Thundercoil, which I can include for the next release. :)

Hi, just posting to note that I have seen the exact same bread\cheese bug before...I just assumed it was something to do with the fact that I had turned 'Food Variety' off in the launcher, and ignored it.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: SharpKris on June 12, 2014, 07:38:37 am
how do you open the crates you get on embark and where the hell do i make cogs?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on June 12, 2014, 07:42:25 am
You should have a trade storehouse, same as the dwarves, for the crates. Cogs, no idea. Craftsgnome or Forge?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: SharpKris on June 12, 2014, 07:50:13 am
if there ever was a race that needs flowcharts it's this one
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: greycat on June 12, 2014, 08:33:07 am
how do you open the crates you get on embark and where the hell do i make cogs?

Crates are opened by automatically-generated jobs in the "Trade Storehouse" workshop (5x5, uses 5 building materials).  Please note that 5.05 has a massive bug which will cause each crate to be opened multiple times (possibly 150 times? infinity times? I don't know), so you may want to avoid them altogether, or forbid each crate after it has been opened once (that's what I did).  Hopefully this is fixed in 5.06 but I haven't updated yet.

Cogs are made in the "Tinker's Workshop" (3x3, uses 1 building material).  Not sure what they're made from but I would guess "a metal strip".  Metal strips are made in the Tinker's Workshop from metal sheets.  Metal sheets are made in the Metalsmith's Forge (or magma version?), under "Other objects".
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on June 12, 2014, 08:43:48 am
The crate bug is fixed.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 12, 2014, 09:33:23 am
if there ever was a race that needs flowcharts it's this one

There's a tinkering flowchart in the manual, at the bottom of the Items section.

In general though:
metal sheet (forge, under 'other items') -> 10 metal strips (tinkerer) -> simple mechanical parts (tinkerer) -> complex mechanical parts (tinkerer)
complex mechanical parts + gear armor items (forge) -> special armor items (gadgeteer)
complex mechanical parts + automaton frames (forge, under 'other items') -> automatons (clockwork automaton workshop/automaton body shop)

To get magnets:
glass tubes (glassmaker) + foil (tinkerer) -> capacitor (tinkerer)
capacitor -> charged capacitor (electrostatic generator, requires power)
charged capacitor + electromagnet (tinkerer) + iron, nickel, or cobalt bar -> magnetized metal bar (smelter)
Magnetized metal bars can be used for dynamos, railgun ammo, or broken down into small magnets to create more complex machines.

Or if you're lazy, you can buy most of the important items in crates (an oscilloscope is included in the 'crate of geological analysis tools', a dynamo is included in the 'crate of heavy electrical equipment', a 'crate of automaton parts' contains everything you need to make one automaton aside from the actual frame, a 'crate of assorted mechanical parts' includes several random tinkering items, and a 'crate of technological wonders' contains random ready-to-use mechanical armor or weapons).  This is more expensive than making them yourself, though.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: palu on June 12, 2014, 09:52:32 am
About the cheese bug, Perhaps you removed the material in one of your recent raw cleanups? Or mabye a typo somewhere?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on June 12, 2014, 09:54:30 am
About the cheese bug, Perhaps you removed the material in one of your recent raw cleanups? Or mabye a typo somewhere?
The materials are defined in the plants, and I havent touched the plants yet. So... I dont know. Maybe I should just disable the bread&candy making for now... food is too valueable as is.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Mithril Leaf on June 12, 2014, 10:21:29 am
So, I thought I saw something about this, but search isn't turning anything up. Is it planned that Gnomes will be able to properly farm the metal trees? Can they already and I just missed it?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on June 12, 2014, 10:29:44 am
They probably should.

Atm it looks like this in dwarf mode:
 - Plant trees in farm.
 - Cut farmed trees into wood in sawmill.
 - Refine farmed trees into special objects (including metal bars) in the herbalist.

I dont think that Gnomes have access to that last part, since a sawmill would only product ironbark/steeloak wood logs. Not the actual metal.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: greycat on June 12, 2014, 10:44:38 am
How is one intended to load the ore into the arc furnace?  After a couple failed tries, and tearing everything apart and rebuilding it until it worked, I ended up with this:

Code: [Select]
........
...O....  O : hole in floor
...|....  | : Machine Output
..AAA...  A : Arc Furnace (powered from above)
..AAA^=.  ^ : Machine Input
..AAA...  = : 1-tile stone stockpile (stones dropped from above)
........

A 1-tile stone stockpile is filled with malachite-bearing rock (minecart-dumped from the level above), taking from links only, giving to the Machine Input.  When the rock is in the stockpile, I unlock the doors, query the Machine Input and queue up the "Input stone" job (on repeat).  When all the rocks are moved from the stockpile, I wait for the gnome to leave the room, lock the doors behind her, and throw the power switch (not shown).

Now, this worked (yay!)... but that "Input stone" part seems clumsy.  Is this how it's supposed to be done, or is there supposed to be some way to get the rocks into the machine automatically?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 12, 2014, 10:55:13 am
If you're dumping stone onto the input tile, you don't need to use the input stone job at all: the machine will take from the input tile automatically.  The job is only there to load up the machine before you get a proper system running, all it does is leave the stone lying on top of the tile.  Just have the minecart dump the stones directly on top of the machine input and nobody has to enter the machine area at all.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Mithril Leaf on June 12, 2014, 11:09:36 am
They probably should.

Atm it looks like this in dwarf mode:
 - Plant trees in farm.
 - Cut farmed trees into wood in sawmill.
 - Refine farmed trees into special objects (including metal bars) in the herbalist.

I dont think that Gnomes have access to that last part, since a sawmill would only product ironbark/steeloak wood logs. Not the actual metal.
If they do, I've never seen it, but I have consistently gotten to the steeloak logs stage.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: SharpKris on June 12, 2014, 11:54:03 am
can gnomes use magmalings?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Mithril Leaf on June 12, 2014, 11:55:22 am
can gnomes use magmalings?

I don't believe they have the alchemist's reaction needed, but I might have missed it. It's kinda nice you can buy them on embark, along with Colossal Elephants. 8)
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: SharpKris on June 12, 2014, 12:00:13 pm
i'll take a couple and see if i'm able to do anything with them hopefully
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on June 12, 2014, 12:04:32 pm
How much do the colossus elephants cost?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 12, 2014, 12:04:50 pm
I suppose I could add a custom machine reaction for ironbark and steeloak in the arc furnace.

Actually, making a custom machine for plant processing would be a good way to test out the custom machine reaction system.

Gnomes can't use magmalings, but they can drill down to the magma sea and suck the magma to the surface using a drilling rig.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: greycat on June 12, 2014, 12:51:00 pm
If you're dumping stone onto the input tile, you don't need to use the input stone job at all: the machine will take from the input tile automatically.  The job is only there to load up the machine before you get a proper system running, all it does is leave the stone lying on top of the tile.  Just have the minecart dump the stones directly on top of the machine input and nobody has to enter the machine area at all.

OK, very cool.  I thought I had tried something like that the first time around, but it must have failed for some other reason (Machine Input was on the wrong side of the workshop, or ... who knows).  One of the reasons I had a separate stockpile in the first working setup was because you can't designate a stockpile on top of the Machine Input -- so all the ore dropped there would get picked back up, taken back up to the stockpile, dropped again, etc.  Without the ability to designate a stockpile on the Machine Input, you must physically restrict access to those ores to make them stay put.

Anyway, I moved the upper-level ore dropping stuff by 1 tile, and with the locked doors to the Arc Furnace, it worked. :)
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: SharpKris on June 12, 2014, 04:26:14 pm
anyone got a suggestion on a fast setup to get arc furnace
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 12, 2014, 04:47:30 pm
anyone got a suggestion on a fast setup to get arc furnace

Bring a crate of heavy electrical equipment with you.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: SharpKris on June 12, 2014, 05:21:49 pm
is there a way to generate energy from lava?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Mithril Leaf on June 12, 2014, 10:29:38 pm
How much do the colossus elephants cost?

1250? Something such that you can only buy them if you set up your embark points. You can however buy a couple with 5000 points, as that's what I tested. They give a hundred hearts when butchered it turns out. Plus like 3000 meat.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Innocent Dave on June 13, 2014, 04:46:27 am
is there a way to generate energy from lava?

There's a geothermal generator, but I've never got around to trying it.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: greycat on June 13, 2014, 10:22:22 am
In 5.05 (Linux, ASCII) I tried to make a bronze mechanical bear.  In fact, I did make one, but then when I tried to activate it:
Code: [Select]
.../MWDF/Dwarf Fortress/hack/scripts/construct-creature.lua:293: Cannot read field unit.T_curse.anon_4: not found.
stack traceback:
[C]: in function '__index'
.../MWDF/Dwarf Fortress/hack/scripts/construct-creature.lua:293: in function 'CreateUnit'
.../MWDF/Dwarf Fortress/hack/scripts/construct-creature.lua:527: in function 'PlaceUnitById'
.../MWDF/Dwarf Fortress/hack/scripts/construct-creature.lua:137: in function '?'
./hack/lua/plugins/eventful.lua:49: in function <./hack/lua/plugins/eventful.lua:47>

Possible mismatch between the version of dfhack distributed with Masterwork, and the version I compiled? :(
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 13, 2014, 10:31:51 am
In 5.05 (Linux, ASCII) I tried to make a bronze mechanical bear.  In fact, I did make one, but then when I tried to activate it:
Code: [Select]
.../MWDF/Dwarf Fortress/hack/scripts/construct-creature.lua:293: Cannot read field unit.T_curse.anon_4: not found.
stack traceback:
[C]: in function '__index'
.../MWDF/Dwarf Fortress/hack/scripts/construct-creature.lua:293: in function 'CreateUnit'
.../MWDF/Dwarf Fortress/hack/scripts/construct-creature.lua:527: in function 'PlaceUnitById'
.../MWDF/Dwarf Fortress/hack/scripts/construct-creature.lua:137: in function '?'
./hack/lua/plugins/eventful.lua:49: in function <./hack/lua/plugins/eventful.lua:47>

Possible mismatch between the version of dfhack distributed with Masterwork, and the version I compiled? :(

Looks like it.  Seeing as how it has the word anon in it, you probably figured out what the variable did and compiled a version that had a better name, but the script still uses the old name.  Does spawnunit work?  It uses the same variable.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: greycat on June 13, 2014, 10:48:27 am
Here's some code from the "master" branch of dfhack, in the file library/include/df/unit.h:
Code: [Select]
    struct DFHACK_EXPORT T_curse {
    ...
      std::vector<void* > anon_1; /*!< v0.34.01 */
      std::vector<void* > anon_2; /*!< v0.34.01 */
      std::vector<void* > anon_3; /*!< v0.34.01 */
      int32_t time_on_site; /*!< v0.34.01 */
      std::vector<int32_t > anon_4; /*!< v0.34.01 */
      std::vector<int32_t > anon_5; /*!< v0.34.01 */
      static struct_identity _identity;
And the same code from the same file in the "develop" branch:
Code: [Select]
    struct DFHACK_EXPORT T_curse {
    ...
      std::vector<int32_t > interaction_id; /*!< v0.34.01 */
      std::vector<int32_t > interaction_time; /*!< v0.34.01 */
      std::vector<int32_t > interaction_delay; /*!< v0.34.01 */
      int32_t time_on_site; /*!< v0.34.01 */
      std::vector<int32_t > own_interaction; /*!< v0.34.01 */
      std::vector<int32_t > own_interaction_delay; /*!< v0.34.01 */
      static struct_identity _identity;
Looks like I should change anon_4 to own_interaction, and anon_5 to own_interaction_delay, in both scripts.  I wonder what else is going to break.

Yup.  I edited the two scripts in precisely that way, made a new mechanical bear, saved the game, and activated it -- successfully!
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: greycat on June 13, 2014, 11:10:48 am
The mechanical animals don't have skills by default (although you can train them at the advanced animal training area)

That doesn't appear to work (or I'm doing it wrong).  I pastured my bronze mechanical bear in the Advanced Animal Training Area (a 1x1 pasture, 1 tile east of center) and sent someone there to "Teach animals combat techniques".  I keep getting the announcement "Rodunan Falgoscappregose needs a work animal to train."
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Kiefatar on June 13, 2014, 03:48:05 pm
I didn't know the mechanical animal constructs could be trained. I figured they were little more than meat(metal) shields. Natural creatures can be though. I could be entirely wrong though.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: greycat on June 13, 2014, 07:56:23 pm
If they can be trained, it's not obvious how to do it.

They seem to be missing some fields, or something.  They show up as citizens of the fortress (rather than animals), but they have "(Tame)" in their profession, and they don't perform jobs.  I guess they're like Tigermen, sort of.  They can't be assigned to military squads, but they can be pastured.  However, if they are pastured in the Advanced Animal Training Area, they cannot be taught combat techniques.  The code that looks for a "work animal" to give combat skill doesn't find them.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on June 13, 2014, 08:09:52 pm
Did you save and reload the game after you summoned them? Animals spawned with scripts currently dont appear in the animal list, till you reload the game.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Rubicon on June 13, 2014, 10:46:50 pm
If they can be trained, it's not obvious how to do it.

They seem to be missing some fields, or something.  They show up as citizens of the fortress (rather than animals), but they have "(Tame)" in their profession, and they don't perform jobs.  I guess they're like Tigermen, sort of.  They can't be assigned to military squads, but they can be pastured.  However, if they are pastured in the Advanced Animal Training Area, they cannot be taught combat techniques.  The code that looks for a "work animal" to give combat skill doesn't find them.


Hi, I have trained mechanical war animals. I have a mithril elephant who is a master wrestler ;).

Have you trained them as war animals before you try and give them combat skills? I did that with all of mine.

My procedure, roughly:

1) Construct animal
2) Pasture in a zone on top of advanced animal training workshop.
3) Train for war
4) Train in fighting skills.

NB: The trainer obviously has to have reasonable skills in the area you want to train them.


Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: omniclasm on June 13, 2014, 10:50:42 pm
Seems training mechanical animals should be more mechanical than druidic.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: greycat on June 14, 2014, 07:05:23 am
However, if they are pastured in the Advanced Animal Training Area, they cannot be taught combat techniques.  The code that looks for a "work animal" to give combat skill doesn't find them.

1) Construct animal
1.5) Save and reload the game.
2) Pasture in a zone on top of advanced animal training workshop.
3) Train for war
4) Train in fighting skills.

I'll try that next time I have access to a Gnome fortress. ;)
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 14, 2014, 01:04:18 pm
As previously mentioned, they must be a 'work' animal; you have to train them for war (or hunting) first.

I suppose it would make sense to have them use a different system than non-mechanical animals, but the truth is that having constructs be trainable at all was an oversight to begin with.  I may or may not change it.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: omniclasm on June 15, 2014, 05:41:13 pm
Anyone played with the gadget gear after the itemsyndrome fix?

They are hella fun now that they actually work. Military gnomes as strong and fast as Orcs, miners with rocket boots clearing out giant swathes of stone in seconds, etc.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: SharpKris on June 15, 2014, 05:51:55 pm
didn't think about giving my miners rocket boots  :o
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: omniclasm on June 15, 2014, 05:56:05 pm
Yeah, my last gnome fort, I was having a hella good time, had an assembly line set up with workflow pumping out gadget materials, two incredibly trained sword gnomes with mithril vibroblades and full suits of gadget gear, a couple iron dragons etc.

But I only had 18 gnomes, and apparently gnomes died off in world gen or something because trying to call a caravan didn't work, said the civ id was bad. So I ended up just suiciding.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: SharpKris on June 17, 2014, 01:52:59 am
is bone carving bugged? i seem to be unable to use any shells i find even after i clean them at the tanners workshop
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 17, 2014, 02:50:40 am
is bone carving bugged? i seem to be unable to use any shells i find even after i clean them at the tanners workshop

What were you trying to use them for?  I didn't have any trouble with them.  Maybe check your burrows?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: SharpKris on June 17, 2014, 04:41:58 am
is bone carving bugged? i seem to be unable to use any shells i find even after i clean them at the tanners workshop

What were you trying to use them for?  I didn't have any trouble with them.  Maybe check your burrows?
Didn't set any.
was trying to make shell craft then it told me no shells were available. cleaned them at the tanners but still nothing.
i've got a heap of shellplate and mussel shells and nothing to do with them
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 17, 2014, 05:26:15 am
is bone carving bugged? i seem to be unable to use any shells i find even after i clean them at the tanners workshop

What were you trying to use them for?  I didn't have any trouble with them.  Maybe check your burrows?
Didn't set any.
was trying to make shell craft then it told me no shells were available. cleaned them at the tanners but still nothing.
i've got a heap of shellplate and mussel shells and nothing to do with them

Odd.  Whatever it is though, it shouldn't be exclusive to gnomes, since those are general reactions.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: greycat on June 17, 2014, 08:10:21 am
Which kind of shells are they?  I ended up with a whole heap of unusable "crayfish shell", while other shells (mussel primarily) worked just fine.  I reported it a while back, I thought.  Also, searching for "crayfish" in the Masterwork DF subforum finds 13 mentions, none of them mine.  Weird.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: SharpKris on June 17, 2014, 12:14:10 pm
well my mistake apparently is that shellplate is a type of lether.
but the crayfish shells are still unusable 
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Repseki on June 18, 2014, 06:54:14 am
I'm having trouble figuring out of the Seismic Telegraph is working or not.

Both the first time embarking, and after restarting from the initial save once I had figured out some of the basic machine stuff, I haven't seemed to get it working. Are there any tricks, or special conditions, to getting the message through?

Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: greycat on June 18, 2014, 09:26:03 am
I'm having trouble figuring out of the Seismic Telegraph is working or not.

Both the first time embarking, and after restarting from the initial save once I had figured out some of the basic machine stuff, I haven't seemed to get it working. Are there any tricks, or special conditions, to getting the message through?

In my Gnome fortress (which was in version 5.05) I consistently got a message like "There is no response" the first time I used the Seismic Telegraph each year, and then "A caravan is already on its way" the second time each year.

I did not test "Only use it once and see if a caravan comes."  I always did the double sending.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 18, 2014, 10:24:48 am
I'm having trouble figuring out of the Seismic Telegraph is working or not.

Both the first time embarking, and after restarting from the initial save once I had figured out some of the basic machine stuff, I haven't seemed to get it working. Are there any tricks, or special conditions, to getting the message through?

In my Gnome fortress (which was in version 5.05) I consistently got a message like "There is no response" the first time I used the Seismic Telegraph each year, and then "A caravan is already on its way" the second time each year.

I did not test "Only use it once and see if a caravan comes."  I always did the double sending.

I'm pretty sure it actually works the first time.  It's supposed to add a future caravan event, check to see if it was added, and then give a response message if it finds one.  I've seen this work properly...once.  The caravan comes anyway in either case, though.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Repseki on June 18, 2014, 04:19:34 pm
I haven't been seeing any response positive or negative as far as I can tell. I had it set up before even the first migrant wave, and tried running the reaction every now and then, not sure what I should be looking for.

And while I have received Dwarf, Elf, and Human caravans, I haven't seen any Gnomes.

It's just odd.

The rest of the Gnome stuff seems very promising though, even after I lost a highly skilled newly migrated Mason to the Arc Furnace I forgot to turn off... so many pieces...
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 18, 2014, 04:51:14 pm
I haven't been seeing any response positive or negative as far as I can tell. I had it set up before even the first migrant wave, and tried running the reaction every now and then, not sure what I should be looking for.

No message?  Odd.  Does any error appear in the dfhack console when you run the reaction?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Repseki on June 18, 2014, 05:11:46 pm
I didn't notice one, but I'll check next time I open up DF.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: omniclasm on June 18, 2014, 05:25:14 pm
I haven't been seeing any response positive or negative as far as I can tell. I had it set up before even the first migrant wave, and tried running the reaction every now and then, not sure what I should be looking for.

No message?  Odd.  Does any error appear in the dfhack console when you run the reaction?

Ive had it not send a message before. Pretty sure its when gnomes die out during world gen. The error message said the civ id couldnt be found
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Repseki on June 18, 2014, 05:58:19 pm
I do know the Gnome civ my Fort is from isn't extinct, but there is an error that pops up about machine.lua.

This is what showed up in the console.

...terworkDF V.5.07\Dwarf Fortress\hack\scripts/machine.lua:1285: Cannot read field vector<historical_entity*>.1604: index out of bounds.
stack traceback:
     [C]: in function '__index'
     ...terworkDF V.5.07\Dwarf Fortress\hack\scripts/machina.lua:1285: in function '?'
     ...terworkDF V.5.07\Dwarf Fortress\hack\lua\plugins\eventful.lua:49: in function <...rkDF V.5.07\Dwarf Fortress\hack\lua\plugins\eventful.lua:47>
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Repseki on June 19, 2014, 05:10:20 am
So unless I'm totally mistaken, my issue seems to be that DFhack is having trouble choosing the correct entity for my Gnomes. Giving the force script a try, it returned almost the same error as above.

Is it possible that having Dwarves playable in Fortress mode for this world, along with the Gnomes, has something to do with this?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: omniclasm on June 19, 2014, 05:11:18 am
Gnomes need some gadget gloves, and some more variety of pants and boots.

Magnetic boots that prevent (or add resistance to) gnomes from being knocked over would be so awesome.

Gloves, I don't know, skill increases? Strength increases? Projectile attacks?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 19, 2014, 09:11:09 am
Gnomes need some gadget gloves, and some more variety of pants and boots.

Magnetic boots that prevent (or add resistance to) gnomes from being knocked over would be so awesome.

Gloves, I don't know, skill increases? Strength increases? Projectile attacks?

I wanted to do this, but I'm not sure how to fix the right hand/left hand issue where gloves are concerned.  I also don't know how to prevent falls.  The gadgets can enable any effect that can be added through a syndrome, so if you have any ideas like that, they can work.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: palu on June 19, 2014, 09:16:56 am
There's a dfhack script that fixes the glove handedness. I'm preey sure it runs automatically, but you might want to check.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Archonex on June 19, 2014, 01:03:18 pm
So are the geothermal generators supposed to be giving the "needs magma" notice when trying to add a job to them with magma underneath them?  The steam engine works just fine.

It looks like a bug but I was wondering if I was missing something.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on June 19, 2014, 02:33:00 pm
There's a dfhack script that fixes the glove handedness. I'm preey sure it runs automatically, but you might want to check.
Yes. IndigigoFenix, if you make custom gloves, they get handedness added automatically in the mod. :)
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Shardey on June 21, 2014, 09:50:35 am
I have updated my little charts for the version 5.0.7. Hope it is useful!

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1uB3UFs-itHpIWkVWUC4DiUErjLdO30dioxtSjuKZMuw/edit?usp=sharing


Edit - version number. In the documents too. Thanks Greycat.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on June 21, 2014, 09:56:37 am
Maybe I can add http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lodestone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lodestone) directly into the mod, that way you might find a natural magnet by mining. Single tile rocks, just like the meteorite or fossils/relics.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: greycat on June 21, 2014, 12:44:31 pm
I have updated my little charts for the version 0.5.7. Hope it is useful!

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1uB3UFs-itHpIWkVWUC4DiUErjLdO30dioxtSjuKZMuw/edit?usp=sharing

These are nice!  But you've written "0.5.7" in a bunch of them (including this forum post) when you surely meant "5.0.7".
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Repseki on June 22, 2014, 04:53:41 am
Lodestone sounds like a cool idea. If you place them in the soil layers like meteorite they would be a nice added option, instead of spending a large number of embark points to get magnets or the long chug to make them yourself.

Quick question, what is the Thunder Forge for?

I also had the same Geothermal Generator issue as Archonex a few posts ago. Doesn't seem to recognize the magma underneath it.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Innocent Dave on June 22, 2014, 05:48:28 am
If i'm reading that wiki article right, having lodestone appear in veins of magnetite would make most sense.  However, the real question here is will I be able to make, say, a lodestone warhammer, or shield, with all the silliness that implies?

EDIT: Lodestone arrows.  You know it makes sense.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on June 22, 2014, 05:49:22 am
Yes, but there wouldnt be any silliness, because its not actually magnetic. The mechanic for that does not exist in the game. It would be the same as any other rock hammer.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 22, 2014, 06:05:26 am
Lodestone would work, although since magnets are tools rather than materials, there would need to be an extra reaction to turn them into functioning magnets.

The Thunder Forge let's you turn metal bars into items, similar to the furniture assembler.

The geothermal generator doesn't work right apparently.  It's just a copy of the magma steam engine, which I haven't been able to edit.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: omniclasm on June 22, 2014, 06:44:16 am
The geothermal generator doesn't work right apparently.  It's just a copy of the magma steam engine, which I haven't been able to edit.

Was working correctly in my recent fort.

You unfortunately still have to run the reactions, but they are free, and it produces an extra 200 power.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: omniclasm on June 23, 2014, 03:55:24 am
What does the Execution Machine do?

I built one, and gave it over 1000 power, the middle flickers like crazy but nothing seems to happen. Can even go check how much power it has, and stand in the middle, and nothing happens.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on June 23, 2014, 04:14:41 am
Maybe it only works on non-gnomes? Did you try dumping some captured invaders into it?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: omniclasm on June 23, 2014, 04:28:40 am
I watched dwarf traders walk over it and some random wild coyotes. Waited a year but no invaders to test, went on to weaponizing Drilling Rigs, and oh boy.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: omniclasm on June 23, 2014, 04:32:54 am
Tested execution device again.

It only works with an output.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 23, 2014, 05:10:28 am
Tested execution device again.

It only works with an output.

Yes, the whole point is to quickly dispose of caged enemies without damaging the cages (tossing caged enemies into most processing machines will kill them along with the cage).  It needs a spot to expel the cages and bodies though.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: omniclasm on June 23, 2014, 05:16:11 am
Tested execution device again.

It only works with an output.

Yes, the whole point is to quickly dispose of caged enemies without damaging the cages (tossing caged enemies into most processing machines will kill them along with the cage).  It needs a spot to expel the cages and bodies though.

I was thinking it was just a more advanced weapon trap.

Turns out, a drilling rig with tons of power is about all that you need for defense apparently. Except I've had the machina script crash a few times, trying to index "item" in the drillPump function...dunno.

Line 1653

Just put that block of code into an "if (item) then" block.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 23, 2014, 07:40:37 am
Do you know what kind of item it was trying to suck up when it broke?

Most machines are pretty deadly if you give them enough power.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: omniclasm on June 23, 2014, 08:02:40 am
Every time I look, there is no item to suck up.

I also couldn't really find any exact cause of it. Adding a sanity check to make sure item wasn't equal to nil seems to solve it, and can't think of any possible situation where you would want to move an item that doesn't exist.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: jonveck on June 23, 2014, 12:18:40 pm
I dunno if this is a question I should ask here or in the Dwarf thread (or elsewhere), but here goes:

I love the added depth of the gnomish machines and automation, but their animal ken doesn't really pique my interest and -- compared to the dwarfs -- their remaining options are incredibly limited.  So, how would I go about modding my raws to allow dwarfs to build gnomish technology?  Would it be as simple as copy/pasting the PERMITTED_REACTIONS into their ENTITY_DEFAULT file?  I dunno if there's dfhack definitions that would need tweaking or what, but it's something I'd really love to be able to do.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on June 23, 2014, 12:30:24 pm
In what way limited? (Why not port dwarvish workshop into Gnome mode, or at least let us know what you are missing. Maybe these things can be added to gnomes)

But yes, its mostly adding permitted reactions and buildings.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: jonveck on June 23, 2014, 01:23:34 pm
It's not that I'm necessarily *anti-gnome* it's that the dwarfs have their temples, their wizards, their advanced armorers (and the size and skills to be a viable army)... I mean, it really should not be that much of a surprise to say that the dwarfs have more content, right?  I'm just interested in being able to add even more (i.e. automation) to it rather than get that new mechanic while losing ones I enjoy so much (by playing as the gnomes rather than dwarfs).

Don't get me wrong:  I know I'm asking to have my cake and eat it, too.  It's just that I'm a fairly advanced player who's been "dwarfin' it up" since early 2010, so I tend to enjoy the more advanced, "end game" content the most.  I like to be able to "do it all."
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on June 23, 2014, 01:32:03 pm
Maybe I can do add the automated-factory part to the Dwarves. The druidism and animal training, and time travel and crazy gadgets should stay gnome-exclusive. But the machines would fit well for dwarves.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: jonveck on June 23, 2014, 03:48:53 pm
And, frankly, the machinery/automation is all I'm interested in at this point, so permitting that and *not* including the druidism/animal training/time-travel suits me just fine.  Because, yes, I too have always felt like such machines would be very dwarfy. 

I mean, if you were to actually make it an option in the GUI (e.g. Allow Dwarven Automation) that would be great -- particularly if anyone else is in the same situation as I am -- but I'm really only asking for myself since I love the idea of automation and want to play with it without feeling hampered by the loss of other dwarf-only reactions.  So regardless of which direction you go, if I'm understanding things correctly, I should be able to simply toss the PERMITTED_REACTIONS into the dwarf file and be good to go.  Should be fun.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: omniclasm on June 23, 2014, 05:26:31 pm
Yeah...I kind of agree that the druidism stuff just isn't that interesting. It feels half baked and tacked on and I don't even know how it fits thematically. I'd rather see the machines, gadgets and clockwork animals expanded upon and the druidism stuff ported to elves or something.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: somebears on June 23, 2014, 06:27:27 pm
And, frankly, the machinery/automation is all I'm interested in at this point, so permitting that and *not* including the druidism/animal training/time-travel suits me just fine.  Because, yes, I too have always felt like such machines would be very dwarfy. 

I mean, if you were to actually make it an option in the GUI (e.g. Allow Dwarven Automation) that would be great -- particularly if anyone else is in the same situation as I am -- but I'm really only asking for myself since I love the idea of automation and want to play with it without feeling hampered by the loss of other dwarf-only reactions.  So regardless of which direction you go, if I'm understanding things correctly, I should be able to simply toss the PERMITTED_REACTIONS into the dwarf file and be good to go.  Should be fun.
+1 on this. I actually just did that for my new fort. Unfortunately there was the best update ever. love you meph <3
I did only add the factory things and the logic stuff. I felt like the cosmic gear/seismograph is not dwarfy enough
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on June 23, 2014, 08:39:02 pm
I do love the nature part of the Gnomes though. When IndigoFenix mentioned it first, I thought "Wow, thats awesome, I didnt expect that at all". I think it fits them very well. Traditional fantasy gnomes were always nature-bound and lived in forests, that steampunk thing is pretty new, I would even mostly credit Blizzard for it.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: palu on June 23, 2014, 09:02:00 pm
How do I make the sorting machine sort multiple items or materials. Like, if I want it to sort out all ores.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 24, 2014, 03:16:39 am
How do I make the sorting machine sort multiple items or materials. Like, if I want it to sort out all ores.

You can't.  But regular rocks can go through the arc furnace undamaged.  I typically feed all rocks through the furnace, then separate the rocks from the bars afterwards.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Repseki on June 24, 2014, 03:22:51 am
Does it only sort rocks from bars, or can you have it sort other things?

and doesn't the Arc Furnace also toss out the occasional block? Or was I just imagining things...
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 24, 2014, 04:29:45 am
Does it only sort rocks from bars, or can you have it sort other things?

and doesn't the Arc Furnace also toss out the occasional block? Or was I just imagining things...

It can sort any item from everything else and/or any material from everything else, but only one item/material at a time.  So there's no way to sort all ore-bearing boulders from all regular boulders using a single machine, but you can separate bars from everything else, or boulders from everything else, or malachite from everything else, and so on.  I usually like to feed the boulders into a stone cutter/furniture assembler after getting out all the metal I can, so usually I will separate boulders from the smelter's output and let everything else fall in a pile for sorting and smelting by hand.  You can make more complex systems that then separate the slag bars from the useful metal for use in a thunder forge, but you'll need more sorting machines to do it.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Repseki on June 24, 2014, 04:41:52 am
Ok, cool. I hadn't done a huge amount with all the different machines in my current fort, but now I think the next Gnome fort I make will have to include some sort of over complicated sorting chain that separates just about everything.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 24, 2014, 10:35:24 am
What's the consensus on the enhancing equipment?  I didn't really test them out thoroughly; the intent was that they should make the undersized gnomes be a reasonable match in combat with the larger races and be worth the complex means of attaining them, but not to turn them into game-breaking powerhouses.  Think they need to be toned down somewhat?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on June 24, 2014, 10:46:29 am
I havent playtested them, but I know that speed upgrades are always very powerful, because it also affects the attack speed.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Repseki on June 24, 2014, 11:17:57 am
I haven't given them to my military dwarves, but the haulers I have wearing Rocket Boots basically move at fastdwarf speed, which sure helps cleaning stuff up. I didn't give them to the military because of the more significant skill rate hit.

What I have had my military in are Steam Armor, Motorized Pants, Spring boots, and Handy Hat helms, first cobalt, then upgraded to Steel. They definitely aren't anything more powerful than a well trained decently armored Dwarf military, so they don't seem to crazy.

After the Vanilla update, when movement and combat speeds are split, it will probably be easier to have items like the Rocket Boots without to much craziness.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: omniclasm on June 24, 2014, 11:33:24 am
What's the consensus on the enhancing equipment?  I didn't really test them out thoroughly; the intent was that they should make the undersized gnomes be a reasonable match in combat with the larger races and be worth the complex means of attaining them, but not to turn them into game-breaking powerhouses.  Think they need to be toned down somewhat?

I love them, so much.

It seems they are actually pretty close to being balanced, at least top end. Fully decked out and fully trained, you can generally cause some havoc, but no more so than other races.

Some of them are kind of weak, though, or very gimmicky. Like the helmet that defends against mind control or whatever...very small range of usefulness. Others are just kind of nobrainers...Motorized Pants are way better than the alternatives. Gutsy Pants and automated pants are both solved by a Clockwork Helmet.

Exoskeleton is also rendered nearly useless because of the Clockwork Helmet. It's slight improvements over the clockwork helmet are nowhere near worth the cost of 20% reduced skills and "muscles may atrophy". It also isn't worth losing the 50% agility bonus, or even the 50% strength bonus from other chest pieces. It also prevents training...you just get the "Individual Combat Drill/Resting" that I always get with skeletons...and they gain no skills, just stand there.

Clockwork Armor is also useless because endurance has no point with a Clockwork Helmet.

The various "stay alive without a head" pieces also seem kind of pointless. If you can never move again, what's the point of keeping them alive? And won't they eventually just get killed by whatever ripped off their head anyway?

Boots are also weird. The first tier, spring heals, give a net of 93% (1.25 speed * .75 skills). The next tier gives a net of 100% (2 speed * .5 skills), the last tier gives a 40% net (4 speed * .1 skills). Seems like an odd progression. The hoops you have to jump through to get civilians to actually use rocket boots off duty also really hurts the potential.

Lack of gloves make me sad.

I also suggest maybe changing the special attacks to gloves. Currently, you can just equip multiple shields and gain all of the special attacks. Can use a smart guard while also having an Ion caster, and a fireball caster, etc.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on June 24, 2014, 11:41:07 am
I do like them, but I think that a few could be removed. When doing all the item graphics I noticed that gnomes have more unique items then all other races combined, and that includes dwarves. Sometimes less is more, omniclasms suggestions sound pretty reasonable.

Especially if two items are doing the same thing, making one of them redundant...
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: omniclasm on June 24, 2014, 11:54:13 am
I'd like to see more breaking up of attributes and special flags.

Currently, the clockwork helm just gives all of the good flags. It might be cool to have several different helms, with different boosts to stats and different flags. I don't mind variety, as long as it has a purpose. I mean, look at Clockwork Helmet and Clockborg Brainjack.

The only positive the brainjack has over the clockwork helmet is letting you survive (but not do anything) without a brain. At the cost of 20% skills and the inability to gain skills. It's a no brainer, with so many puns intended.

Also, full spectrum specs are bugged. The reaction...doesn't give you full spectrum specs.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Repseki on June 24, 2014, 12:21:00 pm
Moving the shield attack abilities to gloves instead isn't a bad idea, I hadn't even thought of trying to get them to equip more than one.

Not sure why you are having trouble getting your civies to wear rocket boots off-duty. Just throw them in a squad set to wear them as part of their uniform, even when off-duty, and you should be set.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: jonveck on June 24, 2014, 01:26:14 pm
@Meph:

Just wanted to mention that I agree that gnomish affinity for nature is, indeed, a *long*-standing tradition in all but the most modern interpretations of gnomes.  So the druidism, while I've not dived into it myself, is an excellent fit for the little guys.

And, as nothing more than an FYI:  it was Dragonlance, in the 80's, who created the Tinker Gnomes -- a race known for their wacky contraptions and anachronistic technological knowledge.  Gnomes in Blizzard's titles are derived from this prior source (in the same way that *a lot* of their content is actually an homage to classic role-playing games).
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on June 24, 2014, 01:40:18 pm
Mh.. I know the Death Gate Cycle, but maybe I should read more Tracy Hickman and Margaret Weis. :)
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Jaso11111 on June 24, 2014, 05:16:18 pm
I wish i could equip my miners with rocket boots, but they just wont pick them up  :(
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: greycat on June 24, 2014, 05:50:30 pm
That's the infamous Miners-and-Woodcutters-and-Hunters-will-not-equip-uniforms bug.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Jaso11111 on June 24, 2014, 06:11:16 pm
That's the infamous Miners-and-Woodcutters-and-Hunters-will-not-equip-uniforms bug.
I know im just saying it sucks.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 24, 2014, 06:30:09 pm
Currently having some fun with possible weaponized time paradoxes.  Trying to figure out a way to keep them from being too easy to abuse.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Arcvasti on June 24, 2014, 06:34:34 pm
Currently having some fun with possible weaponized time paradoxes.  Trying to figure out a way to keep them from being too easy to abuse.

Ideas:
Make them indiscriminate. Have it create a fortress wide unhappy thought. Or lots of nosebleeds. Or maybe just make it have the potential to open a rift in space-time and let things from the other side through. Or just make it require lots of power and be a very late game thing. Give it a long cooldown between uses.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: omniclasm on June 24, 2014, 06:48:06 pm
That's the infamous Miners-and-Woodcutters-and-Hunters-will-not-equip-uniforms bug.

It might be possible to fudge a script that fixes it.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on June 24, 2014, 11:23:23 pm
That's the infamous Miners-and-Woodcutters-and-Hunters-will-not-equip-uniforms bug.

It might be possible to fudge a script that fixes it.
That would be a huge bugfix that would probably even find its home in the official dfhack version. ;)
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: omniclasm on June 25, 2014, 03:17:58 am
How much power does the cosmic gear need?

Pumping almost 700 into it and don't really notice a time difference.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on June 25, 2014, 03:41:33 am
A suggestion for IndigoFenix:

Code: [Select]
[REACTION:HINT_workshopid]
[BUILDING:workshopid:CUSTOM_NONE]
[NAME:*Needs X power min*]

Should make it clearer for people.  :)
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 25, 2014, 04:04:45 am
The machines don't have power requirements exactly, they split up the surplus power evenly and run constantly.  More power just makes them run faster.

The cosmic gear requires 1000 power when reversed to freeze time, less if you just want to slow down (it can't go backwards due to this causing even more weirdness than usual) and should multiply the flow of time by about 1+(power/1000) if running forward. 

I'm currently rewriting the system to allow faster acceleration by creating multiple gears, while also causing a number of fun side effects.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: omniclasm on June 25, 2014, 04:33:40 am
I managed to get time to stop...and it really screws up stuff...4 of my 7 gnomes wouldn't move at all, they just stood in the same spot they were when time stopped until they died.

Glad to see it's being rewritten. Breaking your gnomes in one direction, and having very minimal effect in the other direction seems like a let down for the peak of technology.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: omniclasm on June 25, 2014, 04:46:23 am
Next on my list of gnomish contraptions to try...the Thunder Coil.

As a side note, I've thought it would be cool if all machines had like an "overloaded" state if they had too much power pumped through them that caused various effects.

And, being able to "add onto" machines with higher end gears that also give them special effects. Faster, more efficient, higher quality, and whatnot.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 25, 2014, 04:52:56 am
I managed to get time to stop...and it really screws up stuff...4 of my 7 gnomes wouldn't move at all, they just stood in the same spot they were when time stopped until they died.

Glad to see it's being rewritten. Breaking your gnomes in one direction, and having very minimal effect in the other direction seems like a let down for the peak of technology.

Actually, I considered that to be an acceptable effect, if an unintended one.  They won't begin idle jobs when time is stopped, meaning no eating, drinking, or sleeping, thus effectively limiting the amount of time you can spend frozen.  They should start moving again when the machine is turned off though.  Are you saying they didn't?

The thunder coil still doesn't work 100% (it is supposed to have a much larger range) but I've fixed it for the next update.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: omniclasm on June 25, 2014, 04:58:42 am
I really want more weaponization options.

Most of the standard machines are just kind of the same thing and have the same issues as far as weaponization go.

Maybe I should try a magma mist generator. Magma mist has always been fun.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on June 25, 2014, 04:59:53 am
The mist generator works with magma underneath.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: omniclasm on June 25, 2014, 05:01:51 am
I also tried the cart loader beside a cart on a track stop that instantly dumped into a pit, didn't seem to work, though. Plus I'm guessing it would be destroyed by a building destroyer.

Force based machines would be cool. Succubus mod has a couple LUA scripts that cause a "force" on random enemies, would be cool to have a machine that pushes creatures away from it or something.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: omniclasm on June 25, 2014, 05:05:59 am
Then again, straight utility machines are also super cool.

The seismograph is awesome.

The drilling rig is awesome, I just wish it could function more of a mining tool, depositing the mined stone into an output or whatever, and having the option of increasing the radius (1x1, 3x3, 5x5, depending on power).
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Jaso11111 on June 25, 2014, 09:15:21 am
Question: Do the speed boots also boost attack speed?
And if so, can i put them on a wrestler and make a Gnome version of Kensiro?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Boltgun on June 25, 2014, 09:22:59 am
Question: Do the speed boots also boost attack speed?
And if so, can i put them on a wrestler and make a Gnome version of Kensiro?

Until the next DF udpate, everything speed related affect both attack and movement speed.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 25, 2014, 09:40:15 am
I also tried the cart loader beside a cart on a track stop that instantly dumped into a pit, didn't seem to work, though. Plus I'm guessing it would be destroyed by a building destroyer.

The cart loader could be a lot better, I'll admit.  It's all right for items, but for creatures you have to have the creature standing on the loader and a moving cart in the adjacent space at the exact moment of the loader's active frame, making it very difficult to load hostile creatures into a cart (I did it once, though, and used it to create a mobile target to train archers).

The only alternative I can think of is to continuously KO a creature standing on the cart loader if a cart is not nearby, trapping them there until the power is shut off or a cart moves into position at the right moment.  This will also affect friendly creatures, of course.  Though I suppose it could work as a new kind of trap as well - a mechanical arm that grapples a target until you send soldiers to deal with them.

The drilling rig is awesome, I just wish it could function more of a mining tool, depositing the mined stone into an output or whatever, and having the option of increasing the radius (1x1, 3x3, 5x5, depending on power).

Strangely, determining the material composition of an unmined tile using lua is seemingly impossible.  You'd think it would be one of the basic things, but it...isn't.  :/

Question: Do the speed boots also boost attack speed?
And if so, can i put them on a wrestler and make a Gnome version of Kensiro?

They do increase attack speed, but they also greatly lower all of their combat skills to the point where they will actually be less effective in combat overall.  Fighting while wearing roller skates is hard :P
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Dishwater on June 25, 2014, 11:00:15 am
How do I get a miner to wear say rocket boots if you cant use the military because of the uniform problems as they would then stop mining?
Also do the same effects stack? 4 rocket boots 4 times the power?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Booman on June 25, 2014, 01:35:22 pm
What kind of stockpile do all of the little bits that come out of the tinker and gadgeteer's workshops use?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Repseki on June 25, 2014, 02:57:37 pm
Finished Goods - Tools.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: omniclasm on June 26, 2014, 06:22:35 am
Guess I'll post it here then...

The machina.lua script could use some optimization for performance. The onBuildingCreate causes major lag when you build a lot of buildings at once. For example, building a floor across a large area.

My suggestion would be that every time the function is ran, it sets a variable that prevents it from running again, then have another repeating timeout every few ticks that resets the variable.

Basically...

Code: [Select]
local timeout = false

eventful.onBuildingCreatedDestroyed.machina=function(building_id)
if timeout == false then
updateMachinaList()
timeout = true
end
end

function resetTimeout
timeout = false
dfhack.timeout(10,"ticks",function() resetTimeout() end)
end
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 26, 2014, 12:22:31 pm
Guess I'll post it here then...

The machina.lua script could use some optimization for performance. The onBuildingCreate causes major lag when you build a lot of buildings at once. For example, building a floor across a large area.

My suggestion would be that every time the function is ran, it sets a variable that prevents it from running again, then have another repeating timeout every few ticks that resets the variable.

Basically...

Code: [Select]
local timeout = false

eventful.onBuildingCreatedDestroyed.machina=function(building_id)
if timeout == false then
updateMachinaList()
timeout = true
end
end

function resetTimeout
timeout = false
dfhack.timeout(10,"ticks",function() resetTimeout() end)
end

Not that way... there's a reason for doing it that way.
Constructions shouldn't make a difference to the machinery though, so I guess it can check if the new building is a construction to prevent that problem.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: omniclasm on June 26, 2014, 06:55:39 pm
Well, it still happens if you build a bunch of beds or something.

You could just check to make sure its a furnace or workshop.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 27, 2014, 10:05:09 am
Never mind, I found an even better way; having it update once per frame if you created or destroyed at least one building during the previous frame.

Also the Cosmic Gear is now an all-around negative space wedgie.  In addition to speeding up or stopping the calendar, it now emits a chrono-backlash that has an effect on nearby creatures, and two Gears in close proximity with reversed polarity can create a 'chronal torque' effect.  It can be used as an time-loop based shield, time cloning device, teleporter, extraspatial creature storage mechanism, or aging-based weapon.  It can also de-age creatures until they will never have been born, which will bring creatures that they therefore couldn't have killed back to life as well as erase all of their descendants from existence.  I have no idea how exploitable this system is.  Since you can, with sufficient precision and effort, age and de-age creatures, you can create paradox-based gambits ... although if you abuse it, you might eventually find yourself besieged by long-dead enemies.  And versions of them that fell out of parallel universes.  No actual clock roaches currently but I think it may be fun enough as it is.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on June 27, 2014, 10:08:16 am
You should really make a really really large and comprehensive post about that and post that outside of the MDF forum, for other people to see. That is so dwarfish, it might win you the game.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: omniclasm on June 27, 2014, 10:11:38 am
Never mind, I found an even better way; having it update once per frame if you created or destroyed at least one building during the previous frame.

Also the Cosmic Gear is now an all-around negative space wedgie.  In addition to speeding up or stopping the calendar, it now emits a chrono-backlash that has an effect on nearby creatures, and two Gears in close proximity with reversed polarity can create a 'chronal torque' effect.  It can be used as an time-loop based shield, time cloning device, teleporter, extraspatial creature storage mechanism, or aging-based weapon.  It can also de-age creatures until they will never have been born, which will bring creatures that they therefore couldn't have killed back to life as well as erase all of their descendants from existence.  I have no idea how exploitable this system is.  Since you can, with sufficient precision and effort, age and de-age creatures, you can create paradox-based gambits ... although if you abuse it, you might eventually find yourself besieged by long-dead enemies.  And versions of them that fell out of parallel universes.  No actual clock roaches currently but I think it may be fun enough as it is.

That sounds crazy.

I don't even know how you would have scripted that stuff, but wow.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 27, 2014, 10:36:01 am
Sometimes the 'why' is harder to answer than the 'how'.  :D
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Arcvasti on June 27, 2014, 11:44:26 am
Never mind, I found an even better way; having it update once per frame if you created or destroyed at least one building during the previous frame.

Also the Cosmic Gear is now an all-around negative space wedgie.  In addition to speeding up or stopping the calendar, it now emits a chrono-backlash that has an effect on nearby creatures, and two Gears in close proximity with reversed polarity can create a 'chronal torque' effect.  It can be used as an time-loop based shield, time cloning device, teleporter, extraspatial creature storage mechanism, or aging-based weapon.  It can also de-age creatures until they will never have been born, which will bring creatures that they therefore couldn't have killed back to life as well as erase all of their descendants from existence.  I have no idea how exploitable this system is.  Since you can, with sufficient precision and effort, age and de-age creatures, you can create paradox-based gambits ... although if you abuse it, you might eventually find yourself besieged by long-dead enemies.  And versions of them that fell out of parallel universes.  No actual clock roaches currently but I think it may be fun enough as it is.

I have really got to get back into Gnomes. That sounds awesome.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Innocent Dave on June 27, 2014, 03:41:11 pm
Dwarf Fortress: Weaponising Time Itself.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Booman on June 27, 2014, 05:54:03 pm
I can't figure out the Geothermal Generator. Where does the Lava go? Where do I connect the gears?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: omniclasm on June 27, 2014, 06:05:26 pm
I can't figure out the Geothermal Generator. Where does the Lava go? Where do I connect the gears?

I always out the lava under the top middle and water under the bottom middle then gears connect to top left and right corners.

That said...it seems pretty hit or miss connecting to it. Sometimes it works sometimes only one of them works and sometimes only one of them works from a specific direction with a specific axle or gear.

I've pretty much moved to pure water power. It's reliable and doesn't require babysitting.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: darthbob88 on June 27, 2014, 09:15:55 pm
That said...it seems pretty hit or miss connecting to it. Sometimes it works sometimes only one of them works and sometimes only one of them works from a specific direction with a specific axle or gear.

I've pretty much moved to pure water power. It's reliable and doesn't require babysitting.
It's not just the engines that're temperamental. I can't power a drilling rig, despite there being a clearly powered gear assembly connected to the rig. I also had to reassemble an axle three times before an electrostatic generator would accept the power.

Also, found a problem with the full spectrum specs production reaction. It produces ITEM_HELM_MIRROR_GNOME, and should produce ITEM_HELM_SPECS_GNOME.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: omniclasm on June 27, 2014, 11:54:28 pm
Regards not being able to power machines, it's a weird quirk.

You pretty much always have to set up a building to be constructed. I usually just use b->w->w, place it, then cancel construction.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Repseki on June 28, 2014, 04:30:05 am
Anyone else notice getting brought through the "what do you want us to bring" trade agreenment by the Gnomes twice when they bring a caravan?

This is on 5.07. Not sure if something has changed since then.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: greycat on June 28, 2014, 09:12:51 am
Anyone else notice getting brought through the "what do you want us to bring" trade agreenment by the Gnomes twice when they bring a caravan?

This is on 5.07. Not sure if something has changed since then.

Yeah, I always got two diplomats/liaisons as well.  Can't remember which version I last played Gnomes with, though.  At first I thought one was the Gnome liaison and one was the Dwarf liaison, since both caravans showed up at the same time.  But both of them had the same list of things to ask for, so they both seemed to be Gnome liaisons.  I didn't really try to pinpoint it any farther.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Booman246 on June 29, 2014, 03:40:58 pm
I had just thought it was one gnome and one dwarf. I'll have to investigate, next time I get a caravan.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: firefly68 on June 29, 2014, 04:04:51 pm
I just thought of an idea for gnomes. A building in which it is possible to nurse (transform) eggs into their respective baby animals. I just wanna be able to raise raptors in a jurassic park style :)
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Corundum on July 01, 2014, 11:17:03 am
Errors for ver. 5.05 (Please ignore if fixed)

Autotailor won’t use yarn cloth

Apothecary’s study uses bones for the train bonesetting reaction (supposed to use totems)

Mechanical iron horses leave behind mechanical shark frames when dismantled

When my steel mechanical dragons die, they turn into iron corpses that cant be auto-dismantled and are put into the corpse stockpile and buried like a pet. (I try to just melt them in the arc furnace if I catch it in time) Might be intentional.

my queen is a sky giant deity, and that rocks.  :P

Not sure if it's a bug, but the arc furnace produces different types of metal bars. For example, the build vertical bars has two different listings for iron. Doesn't seem to affect anything though.

When a wounded animal is treated at the Animal Care, it removes all its armor.

I set a dump zone onto a factory input to dump iron bars. When the gnomes dumped them, it fell down a hole diagonal to the dump zone.

That said, I really love the gnomes. I just set up a cart loading system to auto-load all the products from the factories and dump them for pick-up. Kills my frame rate having the gates and pressure plates activating and deactivating constantly but it's soooooo freaking awesome I'll allow it. I need to post a picture and description on reddit or here for the set-up. In the next fort; auto-sorting. :)
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 01, 2014, 01:33:33 pm
Errors for ver. 5.05 (Please ignore if fixed)

Autotailor won’t use yarn cloth

Apothecary’s study uses bones for the train bonesetting reaction (supposed to use totems)

Mechanical iron horses leave behind mechanical shark frames when dismantled

When my steel mechanical dragons die, they turn into iron corpses that cant be auto-dismantled and are put into the corpse stockpile and buried like a pet. (I try to just melt them in the arc furnace if I catch it in time) Might be intentional.

my queen is a sky giant deity, and that rocks.  :P

Not sure if it's a bug, but the arc furnace produces different types of metal bars. For example, the build vertical bars has two different listings for iron. Doesn't seem to affect anything though.

When a wounded animal is treated at the Animal Care, it removes all its armor.

I set a dump zone onto a factory input to dump iron bars. When the gnomes dumped them, it fell down a hole diagonal to the dump zone.

That said, I really love the gnomes. I just set up a cart loading system to auto-load all the products from the factories and dump them for pick-up. Kills my frame rate having the gates and pressure plates activating and deactivating constantly but it's soooooo freaking awesome I'll allow it. I need to post a picture and description on reddit or here for the set-up. In the next fort; auto-sorting. :)


The horse-to-shark bit is an error in the raws, the reaction REPAIR_HORSE_GNOME.

Don't know what's up with the dragon... that isn't intentional.  Maybe something caused the construct-creature script to crash...

Removing armor when treating an animal is intentional.

The dump zone bit is annoying, but that's just how dump zones work.  You have to make sure that the only pit adjacent to the dump site is the right one.

I'll check out the yarn cloth bit.  I wanted to add a bit to the autotailor anyway, for strand extraction purposes.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Qrox on July 03, 2014, 03:16:53 am
Not sure if this is a dfhack issue or Masterwork DF issue, just a few hours ago my gnome fortress had a sheer drop in FPS, from steady 150 down to 30 or so. I tried using fix/item-occupancy, and it listed a hell long list of items of "invalid pos", and told me that the problem was so severe that it could not fix it. As I know some of DF's memory layout, I then made a small application to peek into the memory, and found that in the block where my auto woodcutter was (namely block at 32, 96, 53), there were thousands of items that should be at z-level 54. I thought that could be these item were being transferred by the drilling rig upstairs so I let one gnome pull the lever and stopped the woodcutter and the drilling rig. but after some time, those items were still in z-level 53. I suspect this let the game code break and thus kill the FPS.
As the test went further, I found that when the save was first loaded there were no item misplacements but as every tick went a new item had become misplaced. After removing all reagents and output from the woodcutter there were no further increase of misplaced items. So I suspect that it could be the drilling rig sucks the output to the level above but failed to remove references in the level below.
I uploaded the save if anyone wants it:
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=8726
The woodcutter is running in the save, load the save and run the game for a while, then you should notice the FPS drop.
The save was created in Masterwork 5.05, but after updating to 5.10, the problem remains.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on July 03, 2014, 03:37:39 am
Hey IndigoFenix, I just saw a post by Warmist:
there is "poweredOnly" flag e.g.:
addBuilding("don't remember what can be powered...",{1,1,1},{1.3,1.3,0.3},4,{"poweredOnly"})
Other could be added (not sure about pressure plates though...)

Powered lamps/lightbulbs that start to emit light with Rendermax? :)
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Boltgun on July 03, 2014, 05:25:11 am
Hey IndigoFenix, I just saw a post by Warmist:
there is "poweredOnly" flag e.g.:
addBuilding("don't remember what can be powered...",{1,1,1},{1.3,1.3,0.3},4,{"poweredOnly"})
Other could be added (not sure about pressure plates though...)

Powered lamps/lightbulbs that start to emit light with Rendermax? :)


I remember the flicker setting too I never tried. I need to try if that work with cold magma forges.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Corundum on July 03, 2014, 09:55:41 pm
In the latest version the arc furnace isn't working correctly. I have to input the machina command into df hack to get it to turn on then re-input to turn it back off again.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: windalu on July 06, 2014, 02:46:21 pm
Hi, any ideas on how to get bones without pissing off mother nature? I needed them for a mood so I bought a tiny little meaningless Asp from metchants, butchered it and now nature hates my guts :D So to avoud this embarassing situation in the future - anyone knows a way to get bones peacefully? :)

EDIT: ok, very weird thing just happened. After the episode above I was at -48381 nature rating. I released a couple of animals into the wild, that got me up to -44641. Then a wild Dingo roamed to my settlement. My Colossus Elephant kicked him in the head and killed him. Fearfully. I went to see how much damage this added to my Nature Rating... and for some reason I am at +5069 :D so either tame animals killing wild animals is great entertainment to Mother Nature or something went horribly wrong (maybe the datatype storing the Nature Rating value was not big enough and "circled" from the lowest value to the highest?)
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 06, 2014, 04:49:29 pm
Hi, any ideas on how to get bones without pissing off mother nature? I needed them for a mood so I bought a tiny little meaningless Asp from metchants, butchered it and now nature hates my guts :D So to avoud this embarassing situation in the future - anyone knows a way to get bones peacefully? :)

EDIT: ok, very weird thing just happened. After the episode above I was at -48381 nature rating. I released a couple of animals into the wild, that got me up to -44641. Then a wild Dingo roamed to my settlement. My Colossus Elephant kicked him in the head and killed him. Fearfully. I went to see how much damage this added to my Nature Rating... and for some reason I am at +5069 :D so either tame animals killing wild animals is great entertainment to Mother Nature or something went horribly wrong (maybe the datatype storing the Nature Rating value was not big enough and "circled" from the lowest value to the highest?)

Slaughtering animals, even low-value ones, is extremely bad for your score (about 50-250 times worse than killing a wild animal of the same species).  The reason your merit went back up is probably because a year passed - deaths of pets that occurred a year before are not counted against you.  But at any rate, if you need bones you can hunt without a huge problem.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: windalu on July 06, 2014, 05:01:19 pm
Hi, any ideas on how to get bones without pissing off mother nature? I needed them for a mood so I bought a tiny little meaningless Asp from metchants, butchered it and now nature hates my guts :D So to avoud this embarassing situation in the future - anyone knows a way to get bones peacefully? :)

EDIT: ok, very weird thing just happened. After the episode above I was at -48381 nature rating. I released a couple of animals into the wild, that got me up to -44641. Then a wild Dingo roamed to my settlement. My Colossus Elephant kicked him in the head and killed him. Fearfully. I went to see how much damage this added to my Nature Rating... and for some reason I am at +5069 :D so either tame animals killing wild animals is great entertainment to Mother Nature or something went horribly wrong (maybe the datatype storing the Nature Rating value was not big enough and "circled" from the lowest value to the highest?)

Slaughtering animals, even low-value ones, is extremely bad for your score (about 50-250 times worse than killing a wild animal of the same species).  The reason your merit went back up is probably because a year passed - deaths of pets that occurred a year before are not counted against you.  But at any rate, if you need bones you can hunt without a huge problem.

it was not the passing of a year, everything happened in the first year just after the 1st caravan (late autumn/early winter). Also now that the year has actualy passed (I am in early spring the next year), my Nature Rating is -38926. No animals have been harmed in any way since the events above (some have been born and I healed the elephant - he had a bit bruised leg after kicking a frost giant to death :D. Other than that, no animal action or anything). Must be something wrong with the way Nature Merit is calculated (or stored in memory).

EDIT: about 14 ingame days later, I released 2 ocelotes into the wild. Now my Nature Rating is -100526.

EDIT2: another ingame month later, after releasing cca 8 animals into the wild, im at +25049. I feel like Im playing a lotery :D
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: windalu on July 06, 2014, 05:21:21 pm
on a different matter - how does the "release animal into the wild" choose which animal to release? I have a nature shrine, on it I pastured the animals I want to release, queued the release tasks in the shrine... and the first job sent into the wild my precious colossus elephant that was pastured about 8 tiles away from the shrine :(
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: windalu on July 08, 2014, 06:20:48 am
a couple of things I noticed today...

is there a stockpile for plastic? I cannot find one and it makes my plastic fortress slow to build :D

shadowleaf bush leaves (madi in farmers workshop - process plants to bag) cannot be cooked. Is there any use for them?

I cannot farm trees (tree acorns). Steeloak farms work fine. Embark is in temperate zone, my last fort in temperate had no problems with tree farms so I'm not sure whats wrong in this embark :D
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Qrox on July 08, 2014, 10:36:16 am
It seems that in the latest version (5.10) accidentally dropping a bucket of lye into the arc furnace will cause the game to crash, and in my case the save nearly became unusable because I saved right after the bucket was sucked into the furnace (without knowing it). I had to use some hack to stop the arc furnace. Surely liquids in a furnace may destroy the furnace, but definitely not the save :)
Also, when using the natural shrine to release animals into the wild, the animals will be released, but not cleared from their pastures, and this will cause other gnomes try to drag the animals back to their pastures. If they were cleared from the pasture by the player after the pasturing job was queued, the gnomes will try to find a cage to put the creatures in. If you don't have a cage on hand, there will be massive spams of "Gnome cancel handling large creature: no empty cage" message, and the gnomes will just stand still with the creatures doing nothing.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: windalu on July 08, 2014, 01:33:17 pm
Also, when using the natural shrine to release animals into the wild, the animals will be released, but not cleared from their pastures, and this will cause other gnomes try to drag the animals back to their pastures. If they were cleared from the pasture by the player after the pasturing job was queued, the gnomes will try to find a cage to put the creatures in. If you don't have a cage on hand, there will be massive spams of "Gnome cancel handling large creature: no empty cage" message, and the gnomes will just stand still with the creatures doing nothing.

I had about 50 empty cages, released about 30 animals and 2 of those ended up in a cage. The rest just left the map normally (after I removed them from their pasture). So I guess it is caused by some specific condition.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 08, 2014, 11:53:56 pm
To figure out the nature merit problem, check the dfhack console immediately after checking your merit.  It will print out a line-by-line analysis of all animals and their impact on your score.

The release animal command will generally release the last animal acquired within range, which extends a while out from the shrine itself.  This is mostly to help with the pasturing bug, so you can release animals away from any gnome.

The pasturing bug occurs if you remove an animal from the pasture while a gnome is already dragging it.  Typically, I find it easiest to just release them right near the map's edge.  They should get away before anyone manages to drag them back.  I haven't figured out how to remove them from a pasture through the code.

Plastic is inorganic, but I think it should be stored in a regular wood stockpile.  For all intents and purposes, plastic works like wood.

Gnomes have no use for several special plants, although they should be able to farm trees like everyone.  There is no difference between them and anyone else with regard to tree planting.

I'll fix the lye issue.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: windalu on July 09, 2014, 04:03:12 am
Plastic is inorganic, but I think it should be stored in a regular wood stockpile.  For all intents and purposes, plastic works like wood.

plastic is listed as Wood in the Stocks view, however it is not stockpiled. I checked all stockpile categories and it is not there (not as a raw wood or anything and neither as a material for products) :)
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: darthbob88 on July 09, 2014, 01:10:35 pm
shadowleaf bush leaves (madi in farmers workshop - process plants to bag) cannot be cooked. Is there any use for them?

I cannot farm trees (tree acorns). Steeloak farms work fine. Embark is in temperate zone, my last fort in temperate had no problems with tree farms so I'm not sure whats wrong in this embark :D
The shadowleaf thing I think is a bug, but easy enough to fix, just add [EDIBLE_COOKED] to the entry, so it looks like this.
Code: [Select]
[PLANT:shadowleaf bush]
[NAME:shadowleaf bush][NAME_PLURAL:shadowleaf bushes][ADJ:shadowleaf bush]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:STRUCTURAL:STRUCTURAL_PLANT_TEMPLATE]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:2]
[EDIBLE_VERMIN][EDIBLE_RAW][EDIBLE_COOKED]
[BASIC_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:STRUCTURAL]
[VALUE:2]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:OIL:PLANT_OIL_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:frozen shadowleaf oil]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:shadowleaf oil]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling shadowleaf oil]
[PREFIX:NONE]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:7]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SOAP:PLANT_SOAP_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:shadowleaf soap]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:melted shadowleaf soap]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling shadowleaf soap]
[PREFIX:NONE]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:7]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:LEAF:LEAF_TEMPLATE][REACTION_CLASS:IS_LEAF]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:2][EDIBLE_VERMIN][b]
[EDIBLE_COOKED][/b]
[LEAVES:shadowleaf leaf:shadowleaf leaves:6:7:0:0:0:0:1:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:LEAF]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:EXTRACT:PLANT_EXTRACT_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:frozen shadowleaf poison]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:shadowleaf poison]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling shadowleaf poison]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:25]
[REACTION_CLASS:SHADOWLEAF_POISON]
[DISPLAY_COLOR:5:0:0]
[PREFIX:NONE]
[EXTRACT_STORAGE:BARREL]
[ENTERS_BLOOD]
[SYNDROME]
[SYN_NAME:shadowleaf poison]
[SYN_AFFECTED_CLASS:GENERAL_POISON]
[SYN_INJECTED]
[CE_SPEED_CHANGE:SPEED_PERC:25:START:0:PEAK:1:END:300]
[CE_NUMBNESS:SEV:130:PROB:100:START:0:PEAK:5:END:150]
[CE_SKILL_ROLL_ADJUST:PERC:0:PERC_ON:25:START:0:PEAK:0:END:150]
[EXTRACT_BARREL:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:EXTRACT]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SEED:SEED_TEMPLATE]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:shadowleaf seed]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:SOLID_PASTE:shadowleaf seed paste]
[STATE_NAME_ADJ:SOLID_PRESSED:shadowleaf seed press cake]
[MATERIAL_VALUE:1]
[MATERIAL_REACTION_PRODUCT:PRESS_LIQUID_MAT:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:OIL]
[PREFIX:NONE]
[SEED:shadowleaf spawn:shadowleaf spawns:7:0:1:LOCAL_PLANT_MAT:SEED]

[SPRING][SUMMER][AUTUMN][WINTER]
[GROWDUR:600]
[FREQUENCY:50]
[CLUSTERSIZE:5]
[PREFSTRING:gray leaves]
[WET][DRY]
[BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_WATER]
[BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_CHASM]
[UNDERGROUND_DEPTH:1:1]
[PICKED_TILE:28][DEAD_PICKED_TILE:58]
[SHRUB_TILE:'"'][DEAD_SHRUB_TILE:'"']
[PICKED_COLOR:2:0:0]
[SHRUB_COLOR:2:2:1][DEAD_SHRUB_COLOR:7:0:0]
The tree thing is probably a normal DF bug, where you can't farm plants you haven't found yet, even if you have the seeds. Have you gathered any small trees, or just cut down large trees?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Qrox on July 10, 2014, 10:24:46 am
So I suspect that it could be the drilling rig sucks the output to the level above but failed to remove references in the level below.
After looking into the code, I found this is indeed the case. The function ejectItem() moves one item to a new location, but if the destination is not in the same block as the item previously was, the code doesn't remove it from the previous block (and does not reset item occupancy when there is no item left) (item:moveToGround() does not seem to do this job). I changed the code a little bit to remove the item in this case and after that everything went ok.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 10, 2014, 11:19:07 am
So I suspect that it could be the drilling rig sucks the output to the level above but failed to remove references in the level below.
After looking into the code, I found this is indeed the case. The function ejectItem() moves one item to a new location, but if the destination is not in the same block as the item previously was, the code doesn't remove it from the previous block (and does not reset item occupancy when there is no item left) (item:moveToGround() does not seem to do this job). I changed the code a little bit to remove the item in this case and after that everything went ok.

Ah, that sounds right.  Can you send me the updated file?
Also, regarding the lye problem, is it just lye that crashes the game, or is it any liquid in a container?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Qrox on July 10, 2014, 11:02:02 pm
So I suspect that it could be the drilling rig sucks the output to the level above but failed to remove references in the level below.
After looking into the code, I found this is indeed the case. The function ejectItem() moves one item to a new location, but if the destination is not in the same block as the item previously was, the code doesn't remove it from the previous block (and does not reset item occupancy when there is no item left) (item:moveToGround() does not seem to do this job). I changed the code a little bit to remove the item in this case and after that everything went ok.

Ah, that sounds right.  Can you send me the updated file?
Also, regarding the lye problem, is it just lye that crashes the game, or is it any liquid in a container?
This removes the item from its previous block. Putting it at the start of ejectItem() should do the job
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Regarding the lye issue, I dumped a barrel of prickle berry wine and a bucket of water into the arc furnace, and some exception was throwed (general_ref out of bounds, in destroyItemInBuilding(), general reference erased, but accessed by the next if statement. Simpling changing "end if" to "elseif" fixed this). After restarting machina, the game crashed. This seems to fix it, although I can't see why:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
But I still prefer the furnace !!EXPLODES!! if any liquid was pourer into it! :P
Edit: And there is another issue I wrongly posted out of this thread (and found a (probable) fix), regarding never-coming gnome caravans
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139968.0
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Qrox on July 11, 2014, 02:23:34 am
I haven't figured out how to remove them from a pasture through the code.
So I just figured it out... Here's the code if you'd like it
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 11, 2014, 04:30:29 am
Okay, I'll put those fixes in.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: steelyeyed on July 11, 2014, 12:14:24 pm
Trying the Gnomes for the first time today.  Been spending much time searching for this answer, can't seem to find it.  To build an automatic stonecutter, I need 4 mechanisms, 4 pipe sections, and a rock sawblade.

What builds the rock sawblade?  Can't even find it under management functions (J-M-Q), only metals or glass.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: arbarbonif on July 11, 2014, 12:19:44 pm
Rock is the default inorganic.  So glass or metal should work just fine.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: omniclasm on July 11, 2014, 08:49:34 pm
I think only metals work for "rock".

Glass says glass.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Jaso11111 on July 15, 2014, 06:36:00 am
Hey i have a question:
Im trying to spawn in a crate of heavy electrical equipment with the createitem command. But nothing that i type works! Can someone tell what need to spawn it in?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 15, 2014, 09:10:19 am
Hey i have a question:
Im trying to spawn in a crate of heavy electrical equipment with the createitem command. But nothing that i type works! Can someone tell what need to spawn it in?

It is a bar of soap from a creature that does not exist and has no name.  Probably won't be easy to find.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on July 15, 2014, 09:11:05 am
Hey i have a question:
Im trying to spawn in a crate of heavy electrical equipment with the createitem command. But nothing that i type works! Can someone tell what need to spawn it in?

It is a bar of soap from a creature that does not exist and has no name.  Probably won't be easy to find.
As far as I know it doesnt work with createitem. I tried, couldnt get it to work either.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Arcvasti on July 15, 2014, 11:45:41 am
Hey i have a question:
Im trying to spawn in a crate of heavy electrical equipment with the createitem command. But nothing that i type works! Can someone tell what need to spawn it in?

It is a bar of soap from a creature that does not exist and has no name.  Probably won't be easy to find.
As far as I know it doesnt work with createitem. I tried, couldnt get it to work either.

Hackwish is what I usually use for this sort of thing. Its way better then createitem most of the time.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: vonsch on July 17, 2014, 05:54:27 pm
Just had a crash very shortly after a coati made off with a wooden minecart.

That could be coincidental, but can't think of anything else unusual going on. Am only in summer of first year of this gnome settlement, and shaking out the druid functions more than I have so far, so all stock buildings except for those. Had up up the animal treatment building and the advanced animal training building not long before, but only treated some wounded dingos and wolves, and didn't see any issues there, and had done nothing with advanced training yet. Have been chasing down wild animals to tame along with getting the basic setup and a pallisade up.

This is the 5.10 version. No tweaks outside stuff in the configuration manager (active civs, etc.)
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on July 17, 2014, 06:19:29 pm
I remember a crash when workers use a minecart in a reaction, which is used on a track. the game crashes, because it still thinks the minecart should be there, but suddenly disappears. Maybe being stolen has a similar effect?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: windalu on July 18, 2014, 03:09:38 am
Hey i have a question:
Im trying to spawn in a crate of heavy electrical equipment with the createitem command. But nothing that i type works! Can someone tell what need to spawn it in?

it would be much easier to spawn the raw materials needed to produce electrical components. I ususaly embark with 2 iron bars and a few more copper bars so that I do not depend on finding the right ore veins.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: windalu on July 18, 2014, 03:19:40 am
could someone reccomend a good indoor powerplant setup? I tried making 2 long waterwheel trenches (~20x3) on top of each other with pumps moving the water from the lower to the upper trench. However, I never got all the waterwheels to produce power. It looked like when the water reaches 7/7 under a specific wheel, that wheel stops. So I was wondering if someone has figured out a more efficient way :)

(I know it is a generic question, but I figured power is a gnomish thing more than anything else)
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: omniclasm on July 18, 2014, 03:43:26 am
Indoor power setups pretty much rely on steam engines or their magma version.

Underground waterwheels need screwpumps, and generally destroy FPS. Even a 2 waterwheel setup will wreck your frame rate, they also have the problem of leakage, so they aren't entirely "build and forget".

I always just embark on a brook, build long rows of waterwheels and then seal it off.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: vonsch on July 18, 2014, 09:51:59 am
I remember a crash when workers use a minecart in a reaction, which is used on a track. the game crashes, because it still thinks the minecart should be there, but suddenly disappears. Maybe being stolen has a similar effect?

Thinking more, I think the one stolen may have been one used for a quantum stockpile and probably had some items in it. So maybe it relates to some action a gnome had queued using that minecart?

That said, I had another crash later with no suspect trigger of any sort. Went back to last save and am quicksaving more often to keep save more current which may allow reproducing it if it recurs.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Guthbug on July 21, 2014, 09:22:11 am
I haven't experimented with the automatic workshops, so I can't help with that.

My chief complaint with gnomes is the nature credit system. About the time I get it built up, a bunch of monkeys will charge into my fort looking to steal a handy hat or a pair of roller skates and then they get slaughtered by some armored grizzly bear or a giant steel robot spider. Then you'll check credit again and you're -20,000 points for killing some poo-flinging monkeys. Normally I just say "screw nature" and run the fort with robots.

"Oh, how sweet ... you tamed a cougar and put a helmet on it. I have a steel mechanical dragon with a flame turret standing by the front door. "

My last gnome fort was near a tower. I had an army of steel clockwork gorillas fighting zombies upstairs while deep below ground my rollerskating gnomish chainsaw squad was preparing to sally forth.

I love Masterwork. :)
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: King Doom on July 22, 2014, 05:41:05 am
Can anyone tell me why the embark items page is borked? instead of individual entries for weapons it just lists stuff like 'copper weapons' 'steel weapons' and so on, and the digging impliments just lists pistols. I mean, you probably could dig with a gun, but...
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Guthbug on July 22, 2014, 09:07:25 am
Can anyone tell me why the embark items page is borked? instead of individual entries for weapons it just lists stuff like 'copper weapons' 'steel weapons' and so on, and the digging impliments just lists pistols. I mean, you probably could dig with a gun, but...

A TRUE gnome could! :)

Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Guthbug on July 22, 2014, 10:42:26 am
Ok, playing this morning an idea occurs to me ...

Why not a warpstone reactor for gnomes? :)

Could you have something provide power AND provide additional functionality such as mutation, etc?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: vonsch on July 22, 2014, 01:10:53 pm
I'm trying to use leather (in this case rigid chitin) padded armor as my training gear, but it's being produced with X or XX damage from the leatherworker. It produces leather adjustable armor fine (at least, rigid shell and rigid scale, which is all I have tried so far.)

Hmm, after it not showing up on the specific equipment lists, when I created a uniform using it and assigned that to my trainees, they equip it despite the damage. Odd.

Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: greycat on July 22, 2014, 01:13:53 pm
Can anyone tell me why the embark items page is borked? instead of individual entries for weapons it just lists stuff like 'copper weapons' 'steel weapons' and so on, and the digging impliments just lists pistols. I mean, you probably could dig with a gun, but...

You messed up your install (the raw files) somehow.  Possibly by extracting a new version on top of an old version, or by messing around with the files manually, or maybe even due to some glitch in the GUI launcher program.

Try a fresh extraction in a brand new directory.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 22, 2014, 03:00:55 pm
Ok, playing this morning an idea occurs to me ...

Why not a warpstone reactor for gnomes? :)

Could you have something provide power AND provide additional functionality such as mutation, etc?

The Cosmic Gear uses warpstone.  It allows you to mess around with time.

For those of you having problems with nature merit, make sure you aren't keeping pets in cages.  Killing wild animals shouldn't lower your score that much.  If you aren't sure what's causing it, check the dfhack console when you run a check.

I guess it would be more useful if you could use it to tame titans...
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Guthbug on July 22, 2014, 04:03:42 pm
Hrm. I'm not sure. I don't usually put down cage traps as gnomes, but if I buy a pet and don't immediately let it out of its cage does it count against my nature merit?

I tend to not worry about nature much at all with my gnomes. Mostly it's tinkering and machinery. A quaint forest folk doesn't appeal to me as much as a cavern-dwelling mining/machining clan. :)
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: greycat on July 22, 2014, 06:50:46 pm
Hrm. I'm not sure. I don't usually put down cage traps as gnomes, but if I buy a pet and don't immediately let it out of its cage does it count against my nature merit?

Only until you let it out of the cage, I think. I don't believe the game "remembers" past caging.  I think it only looks at current state for that.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: ___MeRliN___ on July 24, 2014, 09:11:10 am
Noob question: How do I get a rock disc? I need one for an arc furnace (for the dynamo)
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: greycat on July 24, 2014, 10:16:59 am
Noob question: How do I get a rock disc? I need one for an arc furnace (for the dynamo)

"Rock" is a generic label the game uses when displaying certain error messages, which is gravely misleading.  You actually need a metal disc.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: ___MeRliN___ on July 24, 2014, 12:15:11 pm
And where do I craft that? I only found out that I can craft something like an Iron Wheel which doesnt seem to fit the Dynamo recipe.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Guthbug on July 24, 2014, 12:17:50 pm
And where do I craft that? I only found out that I can craft something like an Iron Wheel which doesnt seem to fit the Dynamo recipe.

I *think* it is under trap components at a forge workshop. When I'm exploring a new mod, I just try to build one of each workshop and then cue up the item on a manager work order. They'll find the right spot for it and tell me specifically what ingredients I am missing in the announcements.

I haven't figured out the gnomish electrical system yet. I don't know how to make magnets or charge capacitors.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Arcvasti on July 24, 2014, 12:18:21 pm
Metal sawblade is what it means. Should be in the forge.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: windalu on July 24, 2014, 12:37:45 pm
well, I just found out the hard way that disconnecting machines from the power grid by deactivating gears using levers does not work. Well, at least I got some copper and lots of ash from my unfortunate miner :D
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Guthbug on July 24, 2014, 12:47:18 pm
well, I just found out the hard way that disconnecting machines from the power grid by deactivating gears using levers does not work. Well, at least I got some copper and lots of ash from my unfortunate miner :D

Heh. That's about how my own experimentation went with automation. A couple of gnomes get sucked into a stonecutting machine and suddenly everyone gets all sulky about turning on the steam engine again. :)

Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: windalu on July 24, 2014, 04:05:58 pm
well, I just found out the hard way that disconnecting machines from the power grid by deactivating gears using levers does not work. Well, at least I got some copper and lots of ash from my unfortunate miner :D

Heh. That's about how my own experimentation went with automation. A couple of gnomes get sucked into a stonecutting machine and suddenly everyone gets all sulky about turning on the steam engine again. :)

Well, my gnome didn't get sucked in, I disabled the gear next to Arc furnace and sent someone to check the power level to see if it really was turned off (obviously it was not) :D I am sealing off the automated fort floor for that very reason. All will be dumped through a hole :D
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Guthbug on July 24, 2014, 04:10:44 pm
Work safe!

0 days since last workplace accident.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: vonsch on July 24, 2014, 05:13:18 pm
I had some sacrifices to technological advancement also. Then I figured out the power is transmitted through floors from below, so when I though I was cutting the power, I wasn't because my water wheel linkages were below the gear corners. I play it safe now and am meticulous about putting a complete cutoff gear and lever away from the machines and the power generation. I lose a bit of power along the way to keep good separation, but it saves gnome lives.

I also dump (using a quantum stockpile type setup except dumping into a hole that drops onto the input) from above now, and keep the machines isolated by locked doors when I am running them. I open the doors after shutting them down to let the haulers in. It's encouraged me to start looking into stupid gnome minecart tricks to automate things even more, purely for safety.

Lost some flying pets too. Roof over the machine room!  :P

My main complaint is WAY too many resources. Okay, I may have been a bit extreme on waterwheels... but I only ran the block making machine for about 60 seconds. 15000 blocks and every time I hit that entry in stocks I lag as long as the machine ran.

I think the efficiency may need a little downward balancing.

Way too many kids too. Gnomes aren't kobolds. They are long-lived. Kids should be rare. Gnomes should make up with pets and machines what they lack in gnome power.

Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Guthbug on July 24, 2014, 05:29:05 pm
Pets can only fight. They can't actually do any labor. That's one of my pet peeves. I guess you'd have to make robot monkeys a caste in order to make them actually join the fort and do labor, and that's just kind of weird. If I can have a steel dragon standing guard, why can't I also have a robot butcher?

After the fatal mishap with automated workshops, I haven't messed with them again. They just don't seem worth the effort to me. I know they are sort of core to the gnome theme and all, but I don't need the high quantities of items they can produce. 15,000 blocks of stone? What am I doing? Building a skyscraper?

Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Guthbug on July 24, 2014, 07:03:22 pm
Mechanical beasties have a little weirdness to them.

I craft a dragon frame out of gold ... it bumps up my fortress wealth by 600,000. Pretty epic. I hit "construct" once the parts are done, and it creates the pet ... then the wealth drops back down to its original value. I lost the 600,000. So it apparently doesn't keep track of them as "created wealth"?

Next, when one of my precious machines gives the last full measure of devotion defending my gnome labs, I have a corpse but the option to dismantle it and rebuild is still red. Am I doing something wrong there?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: windalu on July 24, 2014, 07:45:38 pm
I also dump (using a quantum stockpile type setup except dumping into a hole that drops onto the input) from above now, and keep the machines isolated by locked doors when I am running them. I open the doors after shutting them down to let the haulers in. It's encouraged me to start looking into stupid gnome minecart tricks to automate things even more, purely for safety.

you do not need haulers to go anywhere near the machinery. Just make a hole where the desired products drop out of the machines and you can safely collect them 1 Z-level below. I put floor hatches controled by levers there to keep the "landing zone" safe. This way you can quantum stockpile the products if you make a stockpile where the products land :)
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Guthbug on July 24, 2014, 08:07:01 pm
Clever!

Where does the workshop hook up to the machine? I have been using the bottom right corner but I've only gotten it to work one time.

Also, do the in and out stockpiles need to have "take" and "give" set accordingly?

Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: windalu on July 25, 2014, 04:48:19 am
Clever!

Where does the workshop hook up to the machine? I have been using the bottom right corner but I've only gotten it to work one time.

Also, do the in and out stockpiles need to have "take" and "give" set accordingly?

you no not need any Take and Give settings. The processed stuff falls onto the stockpile from above and if it matches the stockpile settings, then it counts as properly stockpiled there. I dump all raw resources also from above into the machine (stockpile around a hole in the ground, then I dump stuff from stockpile into the hole) so no Give setting there. I can imagine, though, that the Give settings could be useful if you want to feed the machine directly through the reactions in the Machine Imput.

I have no idea what you mean by "workshop hooking to the machine" :D
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Qrox on July 25, 2014, 08:08:29 am
I use a setup where drilling rigs sucks items onto the same level as the quantum stockpile input, so my gnomes can throw some silk in and get a pair of silk socks right beside them the next second ;)
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Guthbug on July 25, 2014, 08:25:04 am
I have no idea what you mean by "workshop hooking to the machine" :D

Where does the axle touch the workshop? :)
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 25, 2014, 09:08:20 am
My main complaint is WAY too many resources. Okay, I may have been a bit extreme on waterwheels... but I only ran the block making machine for about 60 seconds. 15000 blocks and every time I hit that entry in stocks I lag as long as the machine ran.

I think the efficiency may need a little downward balancing.

Way too many kids too. Gnomes aren't kobolds. They are long-lived. Kids should be rare. Gnomes should make up with pets and machines what they lack in gnome power.

15000 blocks?  How many boulders did you throw in there?  It's supposed to produce 16 blocks for every boulder.

Gnomes don't have any more kids than any standard race, but it takes longer for them to grow up (20 years), so you'll usually have a large number of them around.  However, most of those kids will do one kind of crafting labor automatically, so they aren't entirely useless.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Kiefatar on July 25, 2014, 09:29:55 am
So how do I even start the mechanical crafting? I've been trying to get an Arc Furnace up, but even embarking with the two crates and building discs/wire/whatever I still can't  get the shop to build a dynamo. Do the boxes not come with magnetized bars? I've seen a bunch of bars (magnet) and I figured that'd be needed for the dynamo.

Also, rock disks/pipes are just weird too. Neither copper nor green glass seem to work. Gnomes really need a tightening up of their material and crafting requirements. I'm looking forward to the next release.

Also, question... how does one improve your standing with nature? Is releasing animals the only way? I've yet to be able to actually recruit anything.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Guthbug on July 25, 2014, 09:54:38 am
So how do I even start the mechanical crafting? I've been trying to get an Arc Furnace up, but even embarking with the two crates and building discs/wire/whatever I still can't  get the shop to build a dynamo. Do the boxes not come with magnetized bars? I've seen a bunch of bars (magnet) and I figured that'd be needed for the dynamo.

Also, rock disks/pipes are just weird too. Neither copper nor green glass seem to work. Gnomes really need a tightening up of their material and crafting requirements. I'm looking forward to the next release.

Also, question... how does one improve your standing with nature? Is releasing animals the only way? I've yet to be able to actually recruit anything.

Start with a stonecutter. It's simpler. :) An arc furnace requires some high end parts.

If it says rock, metal is what it really wants. Glass wouldn't be expected to work. I think when it says glass it really means glass.

The material requirements are confusing because, unlike most other races, many "components" have to be crafted first. For example, if something calls for a mainspring than you have to craft the mainspring out of multiple other components first. For the things I make the most of, I spent some time with a pencil and paper and wrote down all the subingredients first and then made macros for work orders for everything.

As for nature, you can release animals back into the wild and that helps. When caravans come, buy up all their useless animals and then release them into the wild. That helps. You can also send a gnome off into the wilderness wearing some good gear and that helps too, but now you're down one gnome.

My gnome fort fell last night to a frost giant attack. They tore through my steel robot gorillas like dwarf axelords catching a kobold thief. I think the robots are far less uber than they sound on paper. :( Once an enemy gets past the animals and inside the fort, it's all over but the crying. Even with steam armor and railguns, the gnomes aren't much of a match for any real enemy.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Guthbug on July 25, 2014, 10:24:57 am
Going through this, I have some ideas as to a gnome raiding workshop (in line with what the orcs, kobolds, and dwarves have).

At the forge, the following item would be crafted in the advanced body shop:

Robot Exploration Unit

Components: 43 metal bars, 1 drill, a chainsaw, 2 actuators, 2 clocks, 1 dynamo, 1 power cell

Creates: Robot Exploration Unit (just a big an expensive raiding kit/longboat/etc like the other workshops use as a reaction component)

Then use that item in another special gnome workshop called the "Robotic Launchpad" or something similar.

Reactions in that workshop would have varying degrees of chance to lose the exploration unit in a scalable risk/reward tree and require the unit plus a power cell (which is consumed each exploration).

Potential Reactions include:

Mine for common metal (returns random metal bars in small amounts)
Mine for rare metals (returns valuable metals such as deep bronze)
Mine for adamantium (returns small portion of adamantium but at high risk to lose your machine)

Also possible reactions:

Farm underground trees (returns netherbark or glass tree type logs)
Retrieve plant samples (returns underground plants)
Retrieve fossils (fossils)
Retrieve treasure/relics (obviously retrieves treasure chests or relics)
Seek out gems of Arnok (blood, stone, etc. of Arnok)

Some advanced chained reactions (patterned off the warlock overlord throne) might be (rare drop):

Found underground ruins > analyze map to underground ruins > explore underground ruins (which could return anything from gem statues to broken automaton parts or whatever)

Just some ideas I had for gnomes. I don't know if the creator of the mod has any plans for a raiding workshop, but I thought I'd throw this out here if not. Hope it doesn't step on any toes.

Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Guthbug on July 25, 2014, 11:19:56 am
The Fall of Whiskeredflats.

In the halls above, the sound of the railguns fell silent. The frightened gnomes who clustered in the safe room below listened intently. The whistle indicating that all was clear did not come. The roar of the invaders was growing louder. From up above came the sound of an explosion and then more enraged roars.

"That was the steam engine's boiler," Jagarix said. She was the wife of one of the tinkers. She hung her head and began to softly cry.

The door burst open and in came Kibster Hollopex. His steam armor hissed as vapor escaped from a crack in the right shoulder. Ettin blood smeared his armor. His empty railgun had been abandoned and he held his vibroblade down at his side. Behind him towered Punth, the mechanical war gorilla who was the military commander's faithful bodyguard. Punth was heavily damaged and leaking oil. His right arm was gone and one of the ruby lenses was missing from its eyesocket. He was battered all over, but still looked around watchfully, standing at Kibster's back and waiting for danger.

"The gorillas have fallen," the military commander announced to the room. "The traps did not slow them down and the invaders are on the upper level. The militia is running out of ammo. I have given the order to abandon the fortress."

Wails of suffering rose from the assembled gnomes. This was the last stronghold. Carved deep into the heart of a mountain, there was rich metal here and a chance for a good, long life to rebuild the gnome civilization.

"How did it come to this?" asked Halama, the bookkeeper and wife of Kibster.

"We traded too much technology," the military commander replied. "Word got out of what we had, and other races decided to come take it for themselves."

"Where do we run?" asked a voice from the crowd. Kibster thought it was the cook. "The dwarves? The elves?"

"They do not think like we do, nor would they understand our way of life. The gnomes will look out for themselves in the forests, as we have always done. Perhaps now we have learned that technology cannot protect us from the evils of the world."

Kibster turned to go but stopped at the door. "Run. Take what food you can and go through the secret tunnels we have long prepared against this day. Pull the lever on the other side when the last of you have reached it. The children at your side and the babes you hold in your arms are the future of the gnomes now."

"If we pull the lever, how will you escape? The frost giants have taken the entrance."

Kibster looked back to his wife. Punth looked down at his gnome friend sadly, even his robot brain sensing the moment. His movements were slowing down and becoming jerky as his actuator failed.

"Just go," Kibster said. "I must return to the fighting. There will be a few of the militia still alive yet."

As the steam armor clanked into motion again, the gnomes gathered in the burrow knew that the last failing machinery and the brave heart of their military commander constituted a sharp line between their lives, and the savagery that approached.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: ___MeRliN___ on July 26, 2014, 03:43:44 pm
I dont get it... I figured that I need to magnetize my iron with an electrostatic generator. No problem build one. "Oh it needs power... ok guess I setup a couple of windmills and see if I got wind. Yes got wind... now just to wire it up... hm doesnt seem to work... lets use gears instead of axles... doesnt seem to work... lets try from another direction... hm doesnt seem to work..."

So I tried out to power it from all possible angles and it just wont even receive energy... so how do I power that electrostatic generator? I need magnets for my arc furnace and railguns... checked manual a bit and it didnt gave me any hints either :/

And yeah, the axles and 2 gearboxes receive power... use up 10. Do I simply need more power or is there something different I need to know when trying to power my machines... tried a machine input... didnt work either.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Qrox on July 26, 2014, 11:05:42 pm
I guess you need more power. windmills do not provide much power, and I used two waterwheels and they successfully powered it. One might be enough though, but two will definitely work
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: ___MeRliN___ on July 27, 2014, 09:09:28 am
Yeah needed more power, linked 2 watermills to it and it worked. Charged the capacitor, created magnetized iron. Then build the dynamo followed by the arc furnace... forgot the off switch... well... it decided to eat 3 of my gnomes and turn them into ash... which is turned into concrete... "The walls are living" and "They are coming out of the walls" got a completly new meaning due to that incident. Intercepted a Tantrum Spiral which almost developed cause of the arc furnace and added an off switch. Its now only on when I have to smelt ores. And its doing a damn good job on smelting ores... maybe I use that thing as a instant kill trap at the entrance at some point... but for now time to create the first Railgun... and damn the ammo is expensive...
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Guthbug on July 27, 2014, 09:47:07 am
Why not use the steam engine? That thing seems to put out a lot of power.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: windalu on July 27, 2014, 08:38:57 pm
I have no idea what you mean by "workshop hooking to the machine" :D

Where does the axle touch the workshop? :)

I think you need to have a Gear (mechanism), not just an axle, touching any corner of the workshop (the corners look like gears too).

On a different matter, I found out that using the "machina" command in DFHack makes all the dangerous machinery check their power status so they turn on/off immediately. My previous work accidents happened (I guess) because the machina script checks machine power in relatively long time intervals so when I disable the power grid, the machinery turns off when machina script checks power. That sometimes leaves a long time window for FUN. :D
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on July 28, 2014, 01:22:27 pm
Actually, there is no periodic check, the script checks immediately in response to certain events, like a change to a machine's power level or the construction of a new building.  However, there are still a few bugs, mostly because the script takes shortcuts in order to avoid hurting the frame rate.

It is possible that if a machine's state changes but the number of machine systems remains the same and  all machines retain the same power level the script might not recognize the change.  It also has problems when you make your first machina building, apparently the startup code isn't perfect.  But designating a new building should reload everything.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: celem on August 06, 2014, 12:23:58 pm
Decided to give the gnomes a whirl while I wait for invasions in the new releases.  Lotta fun guys, nice work.

Some thoughts/observations/tips for others:

Pop:
At first I frowned at the idea of dismissing members of my civ at the nature shrine and ignored it.  However it's pretty useful later on.  You end up with a lot of children since they stay children so long, and while kids will have a couple of jobs they will do you cant alter them and they wont haul in a reasonable manner.  I had issues with a lot of idle kids whose skills were not useful, dismiss those.  Those who have a decent skill can be kept and allowed to train.

Related to this, watch out for child immigrants with outdoor non-workshop labours.  Fishers, herbalists and woodcutters.  You can only keep them indoors with a burrow, which is a good plan as they will get snatched a lot.  Burrow the kids inside the walls.

Wildlife:
Seriously, bring a decent druid on embark or cry.  It takes quite a bit of skill to persuade decent animals across, and the ones you really want can be very hard.  Likewise you need a high skill druid to wartrain the high end creatures.  Animal Trainer levels obscenely slowly, sure everyone in the fort has novice, but migrants with it I havent seen yet and you want it early and big.

Actually getting favor shouldnt be hard, just dont ever ever butcher anything yourself or keep stuff caged.  Keeping animals seems to constantly pad your score over time, with some exotics seemingly worth big amounts of credit.  I never had issues even with occassional combat deaths.

Using wildlife in combat as your defense totally works, but you need the right animals, big ones.  Dogs and wolves are about as small as a melee war animal should go with certain exotic exceptions.  Bears, big cats and large hooved/horned stuff like yak and up are best.  Even so you will have to armor your pets or they will get annihilated.  The animal armoring system worked really nicely, though needed some micromanagement of pastures and nicknaming animals so I could see what I was doing.  Training the animals helps hugely too, many will have bite primary attacks so my starting 7 included a pair of druid5/bite5 gnomes as beastmasters.  Trained grizzlys are tearing armored goblins in half with shakes.

Breaking pet bonds needs some serious skill for a high value pet, it was 2 years in before my starting druids had enough skill to pull off stuff like spiritwebbers.  I didnt play much with the formation/follow stuff but I imagine it's likewise needing of good skill for many creatures.  Clockwork/mechanical takes really high skill to wartrain too.

Clockwork:
I didnt tinker much with tinkering *hehe*, made some clockwork critters which worked quite well.  A handful of copper beetles scattered around the entrance as spotters were useful earlygame.  I also made a number of mechanical dogs which proved quite combat effective.  Note that mechanical animals need a really good druid to 'war/hunt train' at the advanced trainer but improve considerably with it.  I did make the cool clockwork pants for my smelter and forger so that they worked while they slept, that was great.  I didnt find the flowchart until late on, if you dont know the recipes its a little irritating, i used the manager to order end-products and then reverse-engineered the recipes from cancellation spam but it wasnt pretty.

Playstyle:
Good unique feeling to the race, I started by trying to play them pure vegetarian water-drinking.  You need a lot of wells for a big fort however and with harder farming enabled you will have a big job feeding the masses.  I added fish into their diet and things stabilized out.  I did no hunting and butchered nothing deliberately (an accident or 2 with weapon traps and animal-on-animal scuffles).  I didnt muck around with much of the machinery this time through the few bits I played with needed plenty power so definitely embark on flowing water for power, fish and drinking.  They are highly amusing in melee combat, I didn't make squads but the few times a gnome was on the receiving end of an attack they pretty much blew to pieces. 

Played 4 years up until attacks began to intensify past the point at which my purely animal defenses could handle.  They struggle once the hostiles start armoring in a serious fashion.  I'll do another more mixed play-through now that I have a handle on the animal system, which is epic.  Damn fine job.  I embarked on tropical moist brdleaf and mountain, both untamed wilds with wolves and grizzlies.  Wolves made good bodyguards while grizzlies are brawlers.  I swiftly picked up from the local area snow leopards which was awesome (proficient druid worked), then later giant snow leopards which was even cooler (It took a professional druid to attract a giant snow leopard with mixed success), and finally giant sloth bears which was also fairly brutal. 

Armored and trained the wild catches and used them as frontline defense until they bred and their offspring got tamed, then released the parents and replaced them with the next generation.  Remember that even gnomes cannot take every wild creature and make it (Tame), you still need to breed certain (Trained) creatures and tame the offspring to establish fully tame populations. 

Letting your druids spar for a bit unarmed will buff their fighter/dodge/strike/kick etc which they can then pass on.  But bite is what you really want to teach your animals and that climbs very slowly, hence embarking with biter druids.

?: Where is the whole 'Replace a limb with a mechanical one' thing done?  Couldnt seem to find a workshop for that, reactions didnt appear in the Artificer's.  Also gnomes will wear adjustable gauntlets, is that intentional?  seems to be the only animal gear they can wear but suited me fine, I produced loads before realising 95% of my animals needed none but wanted 4 boots.

Also, got plenty of leather from dwarven/human caravans, but bone is really tough for gnomes to source, makes you quite dependant on vermin for the leather II upgrade so bring a vermin-hunter.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on August 06, 2014, 12:31:56 pm
I made some changes on the mounts. Gnomish sieges should have a little more power now. I did remove can_speak and can_learn from the mechanical animals for that.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: celem on August 06, 2014, 12:45:16 pm
Aww, I was war-training them and teaching them bite.. :p

I guess can_learn interferes with the second, will they still wartrain without can_learn?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on August 06, 2014, 12:58:04 pm
I think you can still train them with the script. (?) But thats something indigofenix has to answer.

But you can buy them now at embark, and migrants might bring such mechanical pets, so its not all bad. ;)
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 06, 2014, 03:53:10 pm
The advanced animal training will still work.

I think I made them intelligent so that the raccoon and bear would fish, and then made them all intelligent for the sake of consistency, but people probably didn't notice that anyway.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on August 06, 2014, 04:08:17 pm
They need intelligent to fish? I a grasp token an natural_skill:fish not enough?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Boltgun on August 07, 2014, 04:16:17 am
They need intelligent to fish? I a grasp token an natural_skill:fish not enough?

Fishing is a weird idling job, an intelligent creature not belonging to your race will fish.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: celem on August 07, 2014, 07:52:35 am
Yeah I remember the code round fishing being a bit weird.  Isnt it the *only* labour a non-civ entity will perform in fort?  I seem to recall trying to persuade animals to do other tasks that were modded to use fisherman skill. 

Regarding the succubus teaching my Gnomes lust.  Mining my announce logs indicates both my 'courtesans' formed at the same time, so one did not teach another.  Based on what you describe about how thats meant to work I suspect that a succubus is intended to teach themselves this as soon as they enter a succ fort map/embark.  My succubus was a snatcher, so never existed until it arrived at my fort.  What I suspect is that it wouldn't perform the interact while stealthed and probably dropped it the second I got the 'Snatcher! Protect the Kids'.  But she was discovered by proximity to a citizen, so as she drops the rock to gain lust, it also clips my nearby Gnomes.  Which would indicate that they were not so much taught by the succubus as ate collateral boiling rock.  Which is thematically weird but probably unavoidable and very tricky to reproduce anyway.

Dont much mind, its a really useful buff.  A little creepy on my 5yr-old gnome weaponsmith, and just amusing on my 'chief medical lusty courtesan'  Both seem to be buffing passers-by with something periodically, some noticable speed changes going down.  I also notice a NO_AGING tag floating there in the RAWs (which i struggle to follow, the moon cycle stuff is puzzling).  What exactly will this do to a gnome?  will my child courtesan never reach adulthood (it was gonna be at 20yrs old).  I also see a no_sleep tag in the interactions, the way I read it this is applied at the start of a month as part of the curse, but I dont see anywhere that it falls off, are both of my courtesans fulltime no_Sleep then?

edit:
Code: [Select]
[CE:PERIODIC:MOON_PHASE:0:3]
[CE_ADD_TAG:NO_SLEEP:START:0]
  This is the bit I mean, I'm curious.  Does the 0:3 on the moonphase also specify an ending for the CE_ADD_TAG?  I.e. will the game automatically remove said tag when not between 0 and 3 of a month?  I understand the effect you are creating, a period with no_sleep, just curious how that works in code.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Boltgun on August 07, 2014, 08:54:56 am
A CE:PERIODIC, affect the previous CE token and limit to a range of days. That's what make lycanthropy work on full moon.

First thing, this will be high on my bugfix list. A snatcher teaching this to a child is a big nope, plus they will not age anymore. What did the announcement says about that? Just 'snatcher' or more?

Your child courtesan will never reach adulthood, otherwise they have two interactions to debuff their enemies in battles and at regular interval they also get speed buffs for themselves and their friends. The snatcher should have used one of those.

Edit : I'll keep debugging this in the succubus thread.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Ogamaga on August 15, 2014, 10:50:06 am
Do the clockwork and mechanical pets benefit from being made with better metals? And if so, what part(s) matter for this?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Flare on August 16, 2014, 02:13:35 am
Do armors that give benefits such as speed, immunity to certain things, and buffs give protection like normal weapons as well?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on August 16, 2014, 12:41:15 pm
Do the clockwork and mechanical pets benefit from being made with better metals? And if so, what part(s) matter for this?

Yes, their outer layers are actually made of the metal you use to build them.

Do armors that give benefits such as speed, immunity to certain things, and buffs give protection like normal weapons as well?

Yes.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Lord Aldrich on August 17, 2014, 02:31:48 am
Are you supposed to be able to purchase all of the clockwork creatures at embark for only 1 or 2 points each? I'm not sure if that's a bug, or if there's some catch that I'm not seeing? As it is now I can stuff a couple hundred clockwork dragons into the wagon with room to spare.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Kartag on August 17, 2014, 05:35:58 am
Are you supposed to be able to purchase all of the clockwork creatures at embark for only 1 or 2 points each? I'm not sure if that's a bug, or if there's some catch that I'm not seeing? As it is now I can stuff a couple hundred clockwork dragons into the wagon with room to spare.
I assume it was made like this for test purposes, and the author just forgot to restore the prices.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: yangabriel on August 27, 2014, 04:38:45 pm
i`m having a bug or a crash when i open the manual and push the dwarf fortress windows down i can't make it appear again and it just won't show up again, and it only happened when i`m playing with gnomes . . .

Edit:

The problem was actually when the game was saving because of the summer . . .
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Giimer on September 01, 2014, 05:50:18 am
IndigoFenix hello
I have a request. Please add reaction potash-> pearlash for arc smelter
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Gildemoron on September 01, 2014, 10:36:51 am
Funny how mechanical carps can die by drowning
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Maximilionarie on September 03, 2014, 10:58:02 am
I would like to start my post by saying that this is an excellent mod. Albeit I'm pretty green at DF, the concept of multiple civs caught my attention and I started to play DF with this mod (never played vanilla).
My question is about ore processing. Humans have the Ore Processor to make metal-bearing-boulders into pure ore. Do Gnomes have a similar building or do you have to bite the bullet and generate less-than-optimal amounts of metal? Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on September 03, 2014, 11:11:27 am
I think its the Arc Furnace that does its job.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Spotswood on September 08, 2014, 07:03:57 pm
could someone reccomend a good indoor powerplant setup? I tried making 2 long waterwheel trenches (~20x3) on top of each other with pumps moving the water from the lower to the upper trench. However, I never got all the waterwheels to produce power. It looked like when the water reaches 7/7 under a specific wheel, that wheel stops. So I was wondering if someone has figured out a more efficient way :)

(I know it is a generic question, but I figured power is a gnomish thing more than anything else)

I always use waterwheels to start. I try to find a good waterfall if I can, otherwise you can use a cistern. I dig a 3x1 channel down from the waterfall to the room where i've channeled out a 3 tile wide pool (however long) for the water to fall into. From the pool I channel three 1 tile runs across the room. These are usually about 4 tiles apart, but it depends on how you want to link the waterwheels. The channels then go under the rooms wall and back out to the river where the waterfall finishes. For this it needs to be on the side of a waterfall so you have a free outlet. If your getting 7 water on your waterwheel it can mean the water is not moving, which will stop the wheel. If you set this up with a cistern you would want to put pumps (rather than a drain) connecting to the waterwheels which then pump the water back to the cistern. So your initial power for the waterwheels comes from water dropping from the cistern and running past the wheels. Its cool, 1 because it works well and 2 because it gives you a massive cool looking generator room, which I like.

So with a drain it looks like

x=channel
.=floor

         Out to river   
......x....x....x...
......x....x....x...
......x....x....x...
......x....x....x... <- waterwheels go in channels and are all linked together to one gear
......x....x....x...
......x....x....x...
......x....x....x...
......x....x....x...
......xxxxxxxxxxx<-
......xxxxxxxxxxx<- Water falls from above (from natural waterfall)
......xxxxxxxxxxx<-

You can make this as big or as small as you like. Just make sure that your inlet amount (so the tile width falling from your cistern or river) is equal to the amount of runs you have leaving to the river. Too much inlet and you'll flood the room. To much outlet and your waterwheels wont run.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: tschib on September 16, 2014, 09:49:47 pm
@spotswood; referencing df wiki, water wheels do not work directly with waterfalls, plus i never encountered a natural waterfall in world generation; indeed, rivers tend to cut through hills on floor level but i do get your point that you make water flow by this setup. why, though not directly building those waterwheels into the river?

coming back at
Start with a stonecutter. It's simpler. :) An arc furnace requires some high end parts.

I'd like to note that gnomes do not have access to a stonecutter..

-------------------------------

Ah yes... after a rather thorough playthrough, my thoughts on gnomes:

first of all I am amazed at how brilliantly well the automated machines work; from the input/output tiles to crushing accidents; truly a dwarfish gnomish thing!
Still I feel the automatization system is not there yet in terms of mnufacturing lines;
I mean I'm unaware of the current or future dev plans for a future version once meph is back and kicking, but currently the automation seems to not really be worth it:

The blockcutter packs an insane output per boulder AND allows to use unconventional boulders like ores for block production, which is pretty nice since the blocks retain their high value and thus allow to produce metal-esque furniture at the automated furniture plant in INSANE quantities, omitting smith/autoforge.
However the quality of the automatically produced items never reaches those of a great/legendary mason, and while this shortcoming is no problem for furniture, as furniture can be cheaply increased in value by the AutoDecorator, weapons and armor are still potentially better hand-produced than in the autoforge, same for the autotailor.

Im just throwing some ideas I had while playing the gnomes, but how bout changing the current system to one where building long, complex production lines is essential, as stated in the race introduction; i imagine something like

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

this is just a quick draft that is neither thought through nor intricate but might illustrate what i hope for production depth, especially when you need multiple different parts from different pre-production machines to assemble a finished good, mking use of the logic gatters and sorting machines...

One more thing maybe; my main problem when playing with the gnomes was their enormous appetite for metal bars; to produce these, you need the arc furnace as smelting the unrefined ("ore containing") boulders is extremely inefficient but since you need such an enormous amout of bars to even build the arc furnace(and the static generator), things are kinda tough in the beginning especially on a low wood/scarce ore embark.
Maybe unlock the gnomes the ore processor?

Anyways, bruh; keep up the great work, gnomes are my definitve favourite besides the fooccubii
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Aristion on September 28, 2014, 02:14:30 pm
Start with a stonecutter. It's simpler. :) An arc furnace requires some high end parts.

I'd like to note that gnomes do not have access to a stonecutter..

Actually they do. Its an automated machine however.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: 94dima94 on October 02, 2014, 08:58:09 am
1) I still have not said this, so, to the author of the mod:
This is an amazing mod: it's an awesome race, and it has exactly the features I like (indirect war, animals, machines...), so... Congratulations, and thanks!
I just wanted to say that...

Anyway, I also have an actual question:
2) In my playthrough all of my forest spiders got killed in a titan attack. The fort survived, but now my "druid score" is about -4500 (I lost quite a lot of other animals too). I can't find a way to recover, given the fact that I basically have no animals left, except for the mechanical ones, (and I don't have a lot of people either)... Can I actually go back to a positive score? Or should i just give up druidism in this game?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on October 03, 2014, 07:30:14 am
1) I still have not said this, so, to the author of the mod:
This is an amazing mod: it's an awesome race, and it has exactly the features I like (indirect war, animals, machines...), so... Congratulations, and thanks!
I just wanted to say that...

Anyway, I also have an actual question:
2) In my playthrough all of my forest spiders got killed in a titan attack. The fort survived, but now my "druid score" is about -4500 (I lost quite a lot of other animals too). I can't find a way to recover, given the fact that I basically have no animals left, except for the mechanical ones, (and I don't have a lot of people either)... Can I actually go back to a positive score? Or should i just give up druidism in this game?

Thanks!

Druidism demerits for dead pets are reduced by half after 6 months and disappear entirely a year after the creature dies, so if you wait a while yo.u'll be able to use druidism again.  You might have to get some tame animals by buying or capturing wild animals to actually go back to positive though
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: smakemupagus on October 03, 2014, 03:41:44 pm
tiny suggestion:
allow galena as a reagent for diodes.  Historically, it was one of the earliest crystal rectifiers, it works basically right out of the ground.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: thegamemaster1234 on October 12, 2014, 03:34:42 pm
The gnomes and their ways of tinkering with mechanisms and such actually made me think a little about base defense for once.
Having settled right next to a river, I walled off my 5x5 stairway, added a trade depot right outside it, walled it, and put a drawbridge across the river with a couple cage traps at the end of it.

Unfortunately I didn't think enough; I accidentally flooded the base after trying to build a well. I had forgotten that digging channels causes a downward slope on the top and an upward slope on the bottom, so after trying to tap the river it all just flooded straight down into my base.

Thank goodness for those seasonal saves.

Even more hilariously, after reverting to the summer save, a rhesus macaque arrived and instantly got captured in one of my cage traps. So much for driving it away, I guess :P (this happened twiceTHREE TIMES in a row, with the same cage trap!)

The lever for my bridge is moving on its own. Can the wind move levers, or is it possessed??  :o
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Arcvasti on October 12, 2014, 10:24:22 pm
From what I remember, in valnilla DF, gremlins can pull levers and are stealthed. It might be those or some Masterwork creature that has similar tags.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: thegamemaster1234 on October 13, 2014, 06:39:09 pm
After playing around a bit more, I found that I can't power a Stonecutter even with 5 waterwheels. Everything's set up just the way it's supposed to, so I don't know what's going on. Just as well a lot of other things don't seem to work, like checking the power. And how are you supposed to check your druidism score? Just the same, trying to release kids into the wild doesn't work either.

Do you have to launch MDF with dfhack for things to work correctly?
Also, after launching with dfhack, my children surrounding the nature shrine with an adult continuously chanting the release ritual while the children are burrowed there created some kind of infinite druidic token thing, and now I'm drowning in the things!

EDIT: Actually, using "Go off to live in the wild" at ALL instantly creates ~5-6 tokens instantly! And since nobody's actually leaving, they're all for free!
At one point I calculated the existence of 161 (ONE HUNDRED SIXTY ONE) tokens inside the shrine at once. Yeah. I would've made an image that strung all the tokens together, but I'm too lazy to save all of the screenshots and load them all up in GIMPhoto (Preview just doesn't work for that). And the numbers just keep getting bigger the longer that dude sits on that shrine. At least I have a major export! :P

EDIT2: Realized that with the way I had copied stuff over into the "hack" folder that druidism scripts weren't there, so that was likely causing all the... er... weirdness. Now I know what happens when you try druidism while not actually having druidism: you get absolutely covered in tokens. :P

EDIT3: As it turns out, the old mac version of DFHack isn't compatible with the plugin that the druidism script needs (eventful) and running the windows version using Wine (I've heard mono with it helps with some things, will try) only lets me see a gigantic D. Oh well.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on October 17, 2014, 01:31:56 am
The gnomes are a plugin for Masterwork, and they come along with the official release.  They absolutely require DFHack to be running and may not work as a stand-alone download in any event.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: hanspeter on October 24, 2014, 02:01:35 am
[REACTION:CRATE_MAGNET_GNOME]
[NAME:Open crate of magnetized iron bars]

This reaction gives 5 [ITEM_TOOL_MAGNET_GNOME], shouldn't it give 5 [ITEM_TOOL_MAGNET_LARGE_GNOME]?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: hanspeter on October 25, 2014, 07:00:31 am
What's the point of being able to load OUTPUT tiles with barrels, bags and bins? Doesn't seem to do anything, or am I just doing it wrong?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on October 25, 2014, 07:11:50 am
I'd assume that the output gets added to the container? Or at least that you have a container ready nearby?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: hanspeter on October 25, 2014, 07:27:24 am
Output doesn't get added to the container, at least as far as I've tested it. Second option makes sense, maybe. But why barrels and bags? None of the machines can produce anything that gets stored in those, afaik.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: palu on October 25, 2014, 11:50:56 am
I think the grinder produces powder.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: vcordie on October 31, 2014, 07:35:40 am
do gnomes get access to arbalests?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: slay_mithos on October 31, 2014, 10:32:25 am
Apparently, it's a dwarven building, and the orcs have their version too, but that's it.

Oddly enough, an arbalest is supposed to be an advanced crossbow (as well as the french word for crossbow), so it took me a while to figure out what you were talking about.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: vcordie on October 31, 2014, 10:41:28 am
Gnomes don't get either arbalests or steam engines, yet they get railguns and time travel.
Okay.
Yep.
Sure.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Emperor on October 31, 2014, 10:58:27 am
You could always permit the reactions/buildings in the gnomish ENTITY file.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Boltgun on November 03, 2014, 04:59:18 am
Gnomes don't get either arbalests or steam engines, yet they get railguns and time travel.
Okay.
Yep.
Sure.

Bah, they went straight to electric power with uranium warpstone?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: vcordie on November 03, 2014, 06:00:05 pm
bah, they could still use the magma engine to make electricity. seriously, can we please get gnomes with steam engines in the next version?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: milo christiansen on November 03, 2014, 06:13:34 pm
I don't know if anyone is interested, but the current powered workshop script is full of little bugs.
Everytime I look through it I find something else that is slightly wrong, and/or can rarely fail in some weird way.

I did not make a list (I was too busy working on my own powered workshop system for Rubble), but here are a few I can remember:

The drill will not extend into open space (but it still takes your items).
The drill leaves the wrong tile behind when retracting from a soil layer.
The sorter cannot handle item subtypes (AFAIK, there is even a comment about "getting it working"), but subtypes are listed as options. (my sorter handles them fine, so look there for how I did it if needed).

The whole thing is one giant, hard to manage, rats nest. Ever heard of modules?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: hanspeter on November 03, 2014, 07:15:18 pm
bah, they could still use the magma engine to make electricity. seriously, can we please get gnomes with steam engines in the next version?

Gnomes do have Steam Engines already.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: smakemupagus on November 03, 2014, 10:30:39 pm
Seems to be there...

Code: [Select]
Searching for: STEAM_ENGINE_GNOME
building_z_gnome.txt(1479): [BUILDING_WORKSHOP:STEAM_ENGINE_GNOME]
building_z_gnome.txt(1521): [BUILDING_WORKSHOP:MAGMA_STEAM_ENGINE_GNOME]
entity_good_gnome.txt(1867): YESSTEAMENGINE[PERMITTED_BUILDING:STEAM_ENGINE_GNOME]
entity_good_gnome.txt(1870): YESSTEAMENGINE[PERMITTED_BUILDING:MAGMA_STEAM_ENGINE_GNOME]
reaction_gnome.txt(1026): [BUILDING:STEAM_ENGINE_GNOME:CUSTOM_S]
reaction_gnome.txt(1027): [BUILDING:MAGMA_STEAM_ENGINE_GNOME:CUSTOM_S]
Found 6 occurrence(s) in 3 file(s)

[REACTION:STOKE_BOILER_GNOME]
[NAME:Run the steam engine (produce power)]
[BUILDING:STEAM_ENGINE_GNOME:CUSTOM_S]
[BUILDING:MAGMA_STEAM_ENGINE_GNOME:CUSTOM_S]
[FUEL]
[SKILL:OPERATE_PUMP]
Dimension is the number of days it can produce 100 power * 100.
I.e. with 2000 it means energy of 1 job = 1 water wheel for 20 days.
[PRODUCT:100:1:LIQUID_MISC:NONE:WATER][PRODUCT_DIMENSION:2000]
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: vcordie on November 04, 2014, 11:56:01 am
Weird, wonder why I don't see them in my game or other peoples community forts then.
How many waterwheels do you need to power any early factory? Stonecutter+crafter?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: ManlyMeatMan on November 19, 2014, 06:05:58 pm
I have a problem with my Gnome Fortress. I have built the seismic telegraph and I can add the task "send a request for trade" but none of my gnomes will do it. Is there a specific labor that must be enabled for it that I must have turned off? As you can tell I'm relatively new to playing the Gnomes, so any help would be appreciated.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: There Is No Vic on December 04, 2014, 06:46:27 pm
After hilariously losing half of my gnomes to the stonecutter machine, I decided to abandon.

Which therapist skill is attached to Druid? Prayer?

I have a gnome with a caste tag of Insane. Looks like every skill gives a bonus in therapist. I'm still at the embark screen. The caste tags are a bit confusing here. Does a gnome with Making Armor caste tag have a bonus?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on December 05, 2014, 03:20:53 am
After hilariously losing half of my gnomes to the stonecutter machine, I decided to abandon.

Which therapist skill is attached to Druid? Prayer?

I have a gnome with a caste tag of Insane. Looks like every skill gives a bonus in therapist. I'm still at the embark screen. The caste tags are a bit confusing here. Does a gnome with Making Armor caste tag have a bonus?

'Druid' is the animal training skill for gnomes.

All gnomes are born with a small amount of points in one craft-related skill, so that gnome children will automatically work in one particular job, depending on their caste.  The exceptions are the insane gnomes, which have a fast skill learning rate but are prone to going stark raving mad, and the angry gnomes, which have a high chance of becoming enraged in combat and will frequently attack enemies instead of running away, but are prone to going berserk.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: There Is No Vic on December 09, 2014, 05:43:25 pm
Looks like minecarts made in the furniture factory don't show up in the Routes menus as valid vehicles.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: lcy03406 on December 16, 2014, 10:50:13 pm
Alright now I know how to make a dynamo from scratch.
1 dynamo (in tinker)= 2 magnets + 1 metal disc + 1 wire
1 magnet + 1 uncharged capacitor (with 1 electromagnet in smelter)= 1 charged capacitor + 1 bar
1 electromagnet (in tinker)= 1 rod + 1 wire
1 charged capacitor (in electrostatic generator)= 1 uncharged capacitor
1 uncharged capacitor (in tinker)= 1 glass pipe + 2 foils
1 wire (in tinker)= 1 strip
1 rod (in tinker)= 1 strip
1 foils (in tinker)= 1 strip
10 strip (in tinker)= 1 sheet
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: lcy03406 on December 20, 2014, 08:03:07 pm
Actually, there is no periodic check, the script checks immediately in response to certain events, like a change to a machine's power level or the construction of a new building.  However, there are still a few bugs, mostly because the script takes shortcuts in order to avoid hurting the frame rate.

It is possible that if a machine's state changes but the number of machine systems remains the same and  all machines retain the same power level the script might not recognize the change.  It also has problems when you make your first machina building, apparently the startup code isn't perfect.  But designating a new building should reload everything.
I searched the forum and found this old post. So what's the safe way to turn off the machines?
I powered the machines from below, using a gear, connected a lever to the gear, pull on the lever, the gear stoped flipping, wanted to check the readout, and a gnome die.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: LMeire on December 20, 2014, 10:27:19 pm
Well first, you do the lever-thing. Then, you have to "update" the machine by designating a construction like a wall to be built near it and let the game run for a bit- you don't even have to actually build the wall, having the designation is enough to tell the machine that the power level has changed.

EDIT: Actually, that post you quoted seems to say the exact same thing I just did. What exactly is the issue?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: lcy03406 on December 21, 2014, 09:25:20 am
Well first, you do the lever-thing. Then, you have to "update" the machine by designating a construction like a wall to be built near it and let the game run for a bit- you don't even have to actually build the wall, having the designation is enough to tell the machine that the power level has changed.

EDIT: Actually, that post you quoted seems to say the exact same thing I just did. What exactly is the issue?
Thank you for the reply. Designating a wall sounds as weird as running 'mechina' in dfhack, after every time pulling a lever. Anyway now I learned the law "never read the power from a factory". I connect a drilling rig to the factories and read the power from it. If it says there is power that should not be, I run 'mechina'. Maybe it's better to run 'mechina' every time as it's quicker than to read the drilling rig, also every time. But I like to play with my cautious gnomes.
And to be cautious myself I run 'quicksave' every time I want to adjust settings.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: HugeOtter on December 21, 2014, 09:50:50 pm
I am struggling with powering workshops. I have been scanning the manual and I notice that it says power goes in through edges. I have tried this with no results.

Maybe I just don't understand power fully (I have not used it extensively), if so, please forgive my ignorance and explain anyway.

Thanks.

TLDR: How do I power my workshops?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: lcy03406 on December 22, 2014, 07:42:41 am
I am struggling with powering workshops. I have been scanning the manual and I notice that it says power goes in through edges. I have tried this with no results.

Maybe I just don't understand power fully (I have not used it extensively), if so, please forgive my ignorance and explain anyway.

Thanks.

TLDR: How do I power my workshops?
Power goes in through the gear-looking corners, not the entire edges. You can connect an axle or a gear (but not a roller) to the 'gear' of the machine.
You can also power the machine from above or below, which makes the designing much easier. The floor need not to be channeled(and it can't, you need the floor to build the machine) to transmit power. In this way you can connect a vertical axle or a gear below/above the center or the corners.
So in sum there are 18 positions that can transmit power, 8 around the corners, 5 below and 5 above.

Be ware of the vertical connectivity, you may accidentally power the machines in case that you want to build some other (safe) mechanisms 1 level above or below them.

And if things are going wrong, type 'mechina' (without the quotes) in dfhack window to refresh all machines.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: PiggiesGoMoo on December 23, 2014, 01:08:01 pm
I am struggling with powering workshops. I have been scanning the manual and I notice that it says power goes in through edges. I have tried this with no results.

Maybe I just don't understand power fully (I have not used it extensively), if so, please forgive my ignorance and explain anyway.

Thanks.

TLDR: How do I power my workshops?

By chance were you using steam engines? I had trouble in the past when using steam engines for power with the gnome machinery. Once I switched to windmills and water wheels, I never had trouble.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: qorthos on December 25, 2014, 09:10:34 pm
Does the electrostatic generator work like other generators?  Drop a capacitor onto an input and it gets output charged?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: lcy03406 on December 25, 2014, 09:25:06 pm
Does the electrostatic generator work like other generators?  Drop a capacitor onto an input and it gets output charged?
No, you have to run the charging reaction manually, but it needs power. Also this machine is totally safe. It does not suck anything or anyone in.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: lcy03406 on December 25, 2014, 10:12:57 pm
Don't know if it's a bug or a feature, the thunder forge can produce items in ash. It burns every thing other than metal into ash, but the output respects the product setting. E.g. if you set the forge to produce mechanism and throw some goblins in, you will get 'ash mechanisms'.

Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Bainin on December 29, 2014, 12:49:30 pm
question about powering machines i have 1 k spare power now in my basement but i cant seem to power any qorkshop seismograph and others i connect to the corner of the building with axles or withgear assembly but nothing works..
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: misiekm on December 29, 2014, 03:11:23 pm
So I decided to try out gnomes, and lo and behold, I'm having a blast. There's just one tiny bug / problem.

The latest migration wave more than doubled my population, and one of these new gnomes brought with him a clockwork raccoon. I read the description and it says it's supposed to be able to fish, however, this one just spams "Too injured to fish" announcement repeatedly, despite being completely fine on its health screen.

Anyone had this problem before?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: zach123b on January 01, 2015, 04:42:06 am
the raws have the raccoon as a quadruped, so no hands to fish with, just 4 feet.  that is if i'm reading it right

and is there a way for the gnomes to produce alloys through factories?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: lcy03406 on January 02, 2015, 07:05:55 am
the raws have the raccoon as a quadruped, so no hands to fish with, just 4 feet.  that is if i'm reading it right

and is there a way for the gnomes to produce alloys through factories?
No way. You have to make alloys in the vanilla smelter. The only automated reaction that produces "alloy" is "remove rust from steel".
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: zach123b on January 02, 2015, 10:37:45 am
darn haha
thanks
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: misiekm on January 02, 2015, 05:26:00 pm
the raws have the raccoon as a quadruped, so no hands to fish with, just 4 feet.  that is if i'm reading it right


I see. Turns out pasturing them makes them stop whining about their unability to fish. As does getting murdered on guard duty by random thieves! :D

Another question. On my second fortress attempt, I thought I'd be clever and not build the Telegraph until I was ready to accept more migrants after the first 2 waves. However, now I just keep getting the "your fortress attracted no migrants" message despite sending the signal. I assume I screwed myself up, building the Telegraph quite late, so is there any way to force a migrant wave, with DFHack perhaps? I'm running a bit low on recruits.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Arcvasti on January 02, 2015, 09:12:41 pm
Questions about the Thunder Coil:

What is its range?

Does it go through walls? How about fortifications?

How often does it set things on fire?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 03, 2015, 11:27:11 am
the raws have the raccoon as a quadruped, so no hands to fish with, just 4 feet.  that is if i'm reading it right


I see. Turns out pasturing them makes them stop whining about their unability to fish. As does getting murdered on guard duty by random thieves! :D

Another question. On my second fortress attempt, I thought I'd be clever and not build the Telegraph until I was ready to accept more migrants after the first 2 waves. However, now I just keep getting the "your fortress attracted no migrants" message despite sending the signal. I assume I screwed myself up, building the Telegraph quite late, so is there any way to force a migrant wave, with DFHack perhaps? I'm running a bit low on recruits.

It's not because of the Telegraph (in fact, you don't even need the telegraph anymore to attract migrants, they'll come on their own).  This is an odd bug in Masterwork that affects all races, and seems to be caused by large numbers of zombies in a curious underground structure, which maxes out the unit cap and prevents migrants from showing up.  Nobody knows why this happens or how to fix it.

Questions about the Thunder Coil:

What is its range?

Does it go through walls? How about fortifications?

How often does it set things on fire?

The Thunder Coil's range, as well as its chances of starting fires, varies depending on how much power you feed into it.  It does pass through walls and fortifications.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Arcvasti on January 03, 2015, 11:55:52 am
Questions about the Thunder Coil:

What is its range?

Does it go through walls? How about fortifications?

How often does it set things on fire?

The Thunder Coil's range, as well as its chances of starting fires, varies depending on how much power you feed into it.  It does pass through walls and fortifications.

Approximately how much does its range and damage increase? Is it one square per 50 power fed into it? 100 power? More? Less?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on January 03, 2015, 12:08:24 pm
Questions about the Thunder Coil:

What is its range?

Does it go through walls? How about fortifications?

How often does it set things on fire?

The Thunder Coil's range, as well as its chances of starting fires, varies depending on how much power you feed into it.  It does pass through walls and fortifications.

Approximately how much does its range and damage increase? Is it one square per 50 power fed into it? 100 power? More? Less?

I actually don't know.  I think it involved a square-of-the-distance formula though.  Of all the machines, it is the one that I have tested the least.  The only time I have ever used it for defense basically involved funneling my entire factory's power into it at once, with predictably explosive results.

Have fun :)
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: misiekm on January 03, 2015, 05:13:51 pm
the raws have the raccoon as a quadruped, so no hands to fish with, just 4 feet.  that is if i'm reading it right


I see. Turns out pasturing them makes them stop whining about their unability to fish. As does getting murdered on guard duty by random thieves! :D

Another question. On my second fortress attempt, I thought I'd be clever and not build the Telegraph until I was ready to accept more migrants after the first 2 waves. However, now I just keep getting the "your fortress attracted no migrants" message despite sending the signal. I assume I screwed myself up, building the Telegraph quite late, so is there any way to force a migrant wave, with DFHack perhaps? I'm running a bit low on recruits.

It's not because of the Telegraph (in fact, you don't even need the telegraph anymore to attract migrants, they'll come on their own).  This is an odd bug in Masterwork that affects all races, and seems to be caused by large numbers of zombies in a curious underground structure, which maxes out the unit cap and prevents migrants from showing up.  Nobody knows why this happens or how to fix it.


Yeah, my human town seems affected by this too. What a bummer... my first gnome fortress was fine in that regard, but I was unhappy with the design and deleted it.
Is there any way I can check whether or not a particular world is bugged, at the start of the game? I thought doing "force migrants player" at the beginning would answer that question, but it doesn't seem to do anything, not even print a "attracted no migrants" message.

-edit-
So spawnunit is pretty neat, just sayin'. Certainly one way to circumvent the problem :D
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on January 06, 2015, 08:01:10 am
You can also kill the zombies with slayrace and clean the dead unit list with dfhack. That should allow more migrants to spawn too.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on March 24, 2015, 11:42:21 am
Let's bring the relevant threads back to the first page... *bump

Gnomes are fully playable in the 40.x version of the mod. I do hope they see some more action in future. :)
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: NukeACitrus on March 26, 2015, 06:31:41 am
Been playing a gnome fort on stream, and people seem to like them! The way you set up the factories are just fantastic! Too bad though you can't seem to make automatic tinkering too, or one could set up a fully-automatic mecha-animal factory! :D
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: WJSabey on April 02, 2015, 09:40:50 pm
I'm having the weirdest (OK, probably not but still pretty weird) problem in my gnome fort. Everything played just fine up until I build a mechanical spider. When I activated it, it turned my mechanic into a succubus performing a ritual, and a nearby gnome into a fiend. I reloaded my last quicksave and tried it again, and the same thing happened. Mechanic turns into a succubus, and another gnome in the room turns into a fiend. What the hell is going on here?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on April 03, 2015, 01:20:36 am
Whaaaa...?

Sounds like some weird clash with the succubi scripts.

What version are you using?  The old or the new?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Boltgun on April 03, 2015, 02:05:39 am
I'm interested to see the save, df had sometimes syndromes mixed up for some reason.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: vjmdhzgr on April 03, 2015, 07:31:34 pm
I'm having the weirdest (OK, probably not but still pretty weird) problem in my gnome fort. Everything played just fine up until I build a mechanical spider. When I activated it, it turned my mechanic into a succubus performing a ritual, and a nearby gnome into a fiend. I reloaded my last quicksave and tried it again, and the same thing happened. Mechanic turns into a succubus, and another gnome in the room turns into a fiend. What the hell is going on here?
I recall a similar problem happening with someone playing as humans. Unfortunately it went unsolved, but it's interesting that this has happened multiple times.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: WJSabey on April 07, 2015, 07:16:57 am
Whaaaa...?

Sounds like some weird clash with the succubi scripts.

What version are you using?  The old or the new?
I'm using 6.2 for 0.34. I found a decent workaround, which is to simply lock the room so no gnomes can go in and get zapped before she changes back. It's a little annoying since she has a brat that keeps trying to follow her in there, I have to lock the room pretty quick. Now I have some spidertanks though, I found a new problem: can you actually give them the web turrets they need to web? I tried and it gave me an error suggesting that you need to work-train animals to equip them. Which you can't do to the spiders.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: donoya on April 10, 2015, 08:26:31 pm
Does anyone know of a good long let's play (at least 20 hours long in total) on masterwork DF with the gnomes? If so, what?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Etherdrinker on May 02, 2015, 02:40:21 pm
I need make an stonecutter, the problem is, gnomes can only do it with the machine, and... you need rock components that are made only in the Stonecutter...

EDIT:

The Geothermals are not working? because I do a little magma spot under one conected with a stair, and it says it need conection still, also, how I wire the power to other machines?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: milo christiansen on May 04, 2015, 03:47:18 pm
"Rock" means an INORGANIC material, aka stone and metal. So just forge the item from any metal any you are good to go.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Mrandom on June 01, 2015, 07:00:54 pm
Hi guys, I'm trying to figure out how logic operator works. I mean, I know the theory, but just cannot get the inputs right.

I've tried this:

--OG
  G

or this:

--GOG
    G


- = powered axle
G = gear assembly
O = OR operator

but the right and bottom gears cannot be powered. How exactly does the input work? Thanks!
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: milo christiansen on June 03, 2015, 04:06:58 pm
The inputs need to be axles, gear assemblies will not work as inputs. Output is set by toggling the engaged/disengaged state of gear assemblies and several other buildings, RTFM for details.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: steelyeyed on June 12, 2015, 12:52:49 pm
I'm running a gnome fortress for the first time moderately successfully.  I have the automated machines up, running only when needed for new materials.  Beginning to make clockwork and mechanical stuff.  Problem I am having is that the game only runs for a few minutes, up to a half hour, then freezes and crashes.  I've taken to saving every 10 to 15 minutes, but it's a pain.  With everything that goes on with gnomes, is this crashing problem normal?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: sisso on August 18, 2015, 02:06:14 pm
On Masterwork V6.2, how to use Gnomes Drilling Rig?

I take a big part of my weekend learning how to play with gnomes. Take hours to learn how to build automatons and my first oscilloscope (that got stolen by a !@#!@#! hawk before I was able to use).

Now I am having problems with Drilling Rig. Probably is a very stupid thing that I am doing because I was unable to find any more detail information about how to use, so it should be simple.

Side view is:

     _ddd--% <- Drilling Rig, with power, and tube extended 3 times
    !_ #_ | <- floor where sucked liquid should be, and tube
       #    <- ground with tube
       #    <- ground with tube
    |$$$$| <- water

The water is level 7

I tried to repeat action with and without power (check power confirm)

I tried with more retracted and extend tube

I tried in a lake in a wood tower and in a ground with a build in river.

I can use classic screw pump normally
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: oliverosky95 on September 19, 2015, 04:59:47 pm
Hey i just wanted to ask if you guys have any decent embark profiles? i'm kinda new to the gnomes and i would like to know what are the things that i must have when embarking. Also what's up with the gnome tiles? i'm only getting G's instead of the gnome sprites

On a completely unrelated note, i feel like the current manual is pretty bad compared to the manual that we used to have when there were only dwarves to play with
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: sisso on September 20, 2015, 07:27:12 pm
The manual recommends an engineer and animal trainer, but usually I start with everything clean.

I think that some zinc, sand and copper is everything that you need. Then a lot of food and drink to not bother on trivial tasks.

If you don't want to build everything, buy some crates.

There is some stuff that is not documented in the manual, and some misinformation like "gears", that are simple mechanism.

This link is gold and help a lot
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1uB3UFs-itHpIWkVWUC4DiUErjLdO30dioxtSjuKZMuw/edit#slide=id.g355787069_00

PS: I am still unable to use the drill :/
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Steforian on September 24, 2015, 11:59:11 pm
Might be a stupid question, but how do i select the Gnome race to play as?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Dracko81 on September 25, 2015, 12:26:40 am
Might be a stupid question, but how do i select the Gnome race to play as?

Easiest way is to deselect all other races as playable. 

When you get into the race at the top of neighbours is your race.  So keep selecting a new kingdom until you get the race you want.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: oliverosky95 on September 26, 2015, 04:31:50 pm
is the nature shrine still working as intended in reborn? the "communie with nature" or the "recruit wild animals" reaction seem to do nothing. Also the go off to live in the wild reaction gives you a druidic token for free sicne your gnomes doesn't leave at all
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Steforian on September 26, 2015, 10:58:51 pm
In old version Masterwork, how does the Nature Shrine Work exactly? Specifically the 'make offer' option... its keeps saying nothing happened, i'm so clueless. I imagine releasing animals and gnomes would increase my standing, but whats with the offering option?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Dracko81 on September 27, 2015, 12:10:15 am
Did you try dumping items on the shrine before making the offer?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Steforian on September 27, 2015, 08:04:27 pm
How does the steam engine work? There are no reactions, for it...

Edit: I looked in the Dwarf manual and followed those instructions, and it works now. The gnome manual said nothing.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Steforian on September 29, 2015, 07:12:51 pm
Did you try dumping items on the shrine before making the offer?
Yes i did still no dice (garbage dump right?). I figured out how to release animals though, but still the 'offering' option is out of my reach (maybe it only accepts certain items?).
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: endlessblaze on October 10, 2015, 11:32:32 pm
i was going to ask why my machine was not running even though I had it powered....

then after I had the image of my setup made the machine suddenly realized it should be spinning.

by the time I shut it down, two gnomes had died to a "check power readout job".


now I got a ton of blocks made.....
but the terrain is so mountains I cant hardly use them so im going to go start a new fort somewhere flat, and bring a sawblade with me on embark.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Dracko81 on October 11, 2015, 05:50:17 am
Only 2?  First time I was playing around one went in and died, then all of my gnomes went in to collect stuff and died.

Now I just run machina in dfhack everytime I throw a switch which has to do with machines.  Although the mist above the center of the machines is a good indication that it is running.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: endlessblaze on October 11, 2015, 05:20:50 pm
made new fort.

someone built a seconded machine but were it was built as already powered so he was caught. almost immediately there were tantrums. I reclaimed and things went well.....

but even though we have made no crafts I guess the doors and blocks and that artifact was enough. a siege of frogmen came by, overloaded our traps and killed most of the fort.

during this I tried killing the captured ones with the execution machine but some gnomes were caught because the floor was not done....so the only path the to output was through it.

got it shut down. and eventually the gnomes replacing cages mid fight let us catch some more.....now there gone, but we live. (praise the migrants)...and we are going to need a longer trap corridor

........

oh wait I forgot. we died a little while later, because the floor around the executer still was not ready
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: urmane on October 23, 2015, 06:53:25 am
First time playing gnomes - I'm a bit confused, I'm not seeing a lot of the documented buildings.  Should they all be there?  I see them in the raws ...

These don't show up at all.  Perhaps that's a typo in the BUILD_LABOR?  I see a lot of this in this file - looks like a possible cut-n-paste error:
Code: [Select]
[BUILDING_WORKSHOP:FACTORY_TITLE_GNOME]
   [NAME:========AUTOMANUFACTURING========]
[NAME_COLOR:7:0:1]
[BUILD_LABOR:ARCHITECT]:MASON]
[BUILD_KEY:NONE]
[DIM:17:1]
[WORK_LOCATION:1:1]
[BLOCK:1:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[TILE:0:1:32:176:176:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32]
[COLOR:0:1:0:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[TILE:1:1:32:32:176:176:32:176:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32]
[COLOR:1:1:0:0:0:0:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:0:0:0:7:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[TILE:2:1:32:176:32:176:32:176:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32]
[COLOR:2:1:0:0:0:7:0:0:0:0:0:7:0:0:0:0:0:7:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[TILE:3:1:65:85:84:79:77:65:78:85:70:65:67:84:85:82:73:78:71]
[COLOR:3:1:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0]


[BUILDING_WORKSHOP:DFHACK_MACHINA_INPUT]
    [NAME:Machine Input]
    !NODIMENSION!NAME:Machine Input 1x1]
    [NAME_COLOR:4:0:1]
    [BUILD_LABOR:MECHANIC]
    [BUILD_KEY:CUSTOM_SHIFT_I]
[DIM:1:1]
[WORK_LOCATION:1:1]
[BLOCK:1:0]
[TILE:0:1:42]
[COLOR:0:1:7:0:0]
[TILE:1:1:128]
[COLOR:1:1:7:0:0]
[TILE:2:1:15]
[COLOR:2:1:7:0:0]
[TILE:3:1:94]
[COLOR:3:1:7:0:0]
[BUILD_ITEM:1:TRAPPARTS:NONE:NONE:NONE]

Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: endlessblaze on November 14, 2015, 11:04:51 pm
................why did my mechanical carp break when I put them in water?.....the description screen said they worked well in water........

RAGEGGGGGGGGGGGG
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: cam94509 on November 16, 2015, 05:19:25 pm
I'm really confused as to what, exactly, I need to build the telegraph. Various places in the manual seem to say different things, and I can't find ANY of the things (piston OR gears) on ANY workshop. How do?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: doomtc on December 17, 2015, 03:38:43 pm
First time playing gnomes - I'm a bit confused, I'm not seeing a lot of the documented buildings.  Should they all be there?  I see them in the raws ...

These don't show up at all.  Perhaps that's a typo in the BUILD_LABOR?  I see a lot of this in this file - looks like a possible cut-n-paste error:
Code: [Select]
[BUILDING_WORKSHOP:FACTORY_TITLE_GNOME]
   [NAME:========AUTOMANUFACTURING========]
[NAME_COLOR:7:0:1]
[BUILD_LABOR:ARCHITECT]:MASON]
[BUILD_KEY:NONE]
[DIM:17:1]
[WORK_LOCATION:1:1]
[BLOCK:1:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[TILE:0:1:32:176:176:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32]
[COLOR:0:1:0:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[TILE:1:1:32:32:176:176:32:176:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32]
[COLOR:1:1:0:0:0:0:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:0:0:0:7:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[TILE:2:1:32:176:32:176:32:176:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32:32]
[COLOR:2:1:0:0:0:7:0:0:0:0:0:7:0:0:0:0:0:7:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0]
[TILE:3:1:65:85:84:79:77:65:78:85:70:65:67:84:85:82:73:78:71]
[COLOR:3:1:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0:7:0:0]


[BUILDING_WORKSHOP:DFHACK_MACHINA_INPUT]
    [NAME:Machine Input]
    !NODIMENSION!NAME:Machine Input 1x1]
    [NAME_COLOR:4:0:1]
    [BUILD_LABOR:MECHANIC]
    [BUILD_KEY:CUSTOM_SHIFT_I]
[DIM:1:1]
[WORK_LOCATION:1:1]
[BLOCK:1:0]
[TILE:0:1:42]
[COLOR:0:1:7:0:0]
[TILE:1:1:128]
[COLOR:1:1:7:0:0]
[TILE:2:1:15]
[COLOR:2:1:7:0:0]
[TILE:3:1:94]
[COLOR:3:1:7:0:0]
[BUILD_ITEM:1:TRAPPARTS:NONE:NONE:NONE]


Code: [Select]
PERMITTED_BUILDING:DFHACK_MACHINA_OUTPUT
[PERMITTED_REACTION:LUA_HOOK_MACHINA_INPUT_LOAD_BAG]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:LUA_HOOK_MACHINA_INPUT_LOAD_BARREL]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:LUA_HOOK_MACHINA_INPUT_LOAD_BIN]
PERMITTED_BUILDING:DFHACK_MACHINA_LOADER
PERMITTED_BUILDING:DFHACK_MACHINA_FACTORY_STONECUTTER
PERMITTED_BUILDING:DFHACK_MACHINA_FACTORY_WOODCUTTER
PERMITTED_BUILDING:DFHACK_MACHINA_FACTORY_FURNITURE
PERMITTED_BUILDING:DFHACK_MACHINA_FACTORY_CLOTHIER
PERMITTED_BUILDING:DFHACK_MACHINA_FACTORY_GRINDER
PERMITTED_BUILDING:DFHACK_MACHINA_FACTORY_IMPROVEMENTS
PERMITTED_BUILDING:DFHACK_MACHINA_FACTORY_SMELTER
PERMITTED_BUILDING:DFHACK_MACHINA_FACTORY_FORGE
PERMITTED_BUILDING:DFHACK_MACHINA_FACTORY_BUTCHER
PERMITTED_BUILDING:DFHACK_MACHINA_FACTORY_SORTER

You'll see stuff like this in the entity RAW for gnomes. The missing brackets mean the permitted building lines without them are basically commented out. There are a LOT of missing brackets for things that actually have defined reactions and for things that don't(you're supposed to be able to make gunpowder, but the reaction for it is missing I think). I have the latest version of masterwork reborn, and it's just like this. It may be like this because they don't work. For example, the commands to activate automata didn't seem to show up until I renamed some permitted reactions in the entity to what they were in the reactions, but the activation command just consumed the built frame. I assume it was supposed to use a dfhack command to spawn a pet creature made of metal or something but i can't prove it. I don't know anything about lua...

I'm really confused as to what, exactly, I need to build the telegraph. Various places in the manual seem to say different things, and I can't find ANY of the things (piston OR gears) on ANY workshop. How do?

The seismic telegraph wouldn't have a purpose even if you built it, which you can't since it requires(as per RAW) a "TRAPCOMP_STEAM_PISTON" which doesn't have a reaction to make it as far as I can tell. More than 2 migrant waves and caravans show up even without the telegraph.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on December 18, 2015, 09:09:58 am
Steam piston doesnt need a reaction, its added as a permitted tool, you can make it in the forge with all other trap comps.

The missing brackets are work by indigofenix, who removed parts and balanced the gnomes as he saw fit.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: doomtc on December 18, 2015, 03:33:00 pm
Sorry if I seemed presumptuous. I couldn't find the steam piston for some reason.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Khorinis on January 05, 2016, 01:52:42 pm
So i'm a bit confused, i read the manual but how do I start with items, I can't build anything in the tinker shop

help :(
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: sisso on January 05, 2016, 02:22:39 pm
So i'm a bit confused, i read the manual but how do I start with items, I can't build anything in the tinker shop

help :(

Probably you need metal sheet, created in the forge with metals.

This links that I dig out in the past should help:

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=138898.msg5367759#msg5367759

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1uB3UFs-itHpIWkVWUC4DiUErjLdO30dioxtSjuKZMuw/edit#slide=id.g355787069_0190
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: sisso on January 05, 2016, 02:25:24 pm
Sorry if I seemed presumptuous. I couldn't find the steam piston for some reason.

I think that you can build into metalsmith > trap componets > large piston

A tip to find where to build is have every building and request the manager to build one. Then search where it was queued.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Khorinis on January 05, 2016, 04:28:29 pm
So i'm a bit confused, i read the manual but how do I start with items, I can't build anything in the tinker shop

help :(

Probably you need metal sheet, created in the forge with metals.

This links that I dig out in the past should help:

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=138898.msg5367759#msg5367759

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1uB3UFs-itHpIWkVWUC4DiUErjLdO30dioxtSjuKZMuw/edit#slide=id.g355787069_0190

thanks 
glass pipe sections and glass tubes are the same i guess?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: 123nick on January 09, 2016, 04:19:08 pm
hey, i have all the workshops enabled in the options in the masterwork launcher. so i have a question: do only dwarves get stuff like, merchant vendors and stuff like research? because im not sure if its only the dwarves that get a ton of new content like that, or something.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: sisso on January 09, 2016, 05:11:10 pm
In the manual each race it have the building list. I think that only dwarfs and warlocks have research.

Gnomes have a lot of exclusive nice stuff. Like create a automatos factory to invede the underground (I never finish my one :P)
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: 123nick on January 10, 2016, 02:10:33 pm
well, ok, but what about even more general things, like digging and razing invaders. i dont seem to see them, at all. or  diseases. or the so called secret fun, which i think has to do with cults and fort betrayal, in some way, but i dont see them. do they require forts that live for like, decades?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: 123nick on April 10, 2016, 12:38:09 am
hey i have a neat suggestion- i think that if you tame a animal via the nature shrine , u should instantly get some general familairity of said animal so you dont have it for as long as it doesent revert too semi-wild then fully wild state.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Dozebôm Lolumzalìs on April 17, 2016, 04:35:28 pm
Wrong place, bad English, can't understand the suggestion.

What are you trying to say? You get familiar with the animal until it is wild? You get familiar so it doesn't get wild?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: sisso on April 17, 2016, 06:52:50 pm
You get familiar so it doesn't get wild?

I understand this one.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Dozebôm Lolumzalìs on April 18, 2016, 05:27:34 pm
Hey, I have a neat suggestion - I think that if you tame a animal via the nature shrine, you should instantly get some general familiarity with the animal so you don't have it for as long as it doesn't revert to the semi-wild then fully wild state.

I still don't get it, and I've even fixed the English!

"I have an idea. If you use the nature shrine to tame an animal, you should get familiar with the species of the animal..." Yes, I agree. Except taming an animal makes it and its offspring tame forever. Do you mean train?

"so you don't have it for as long as it doesn't revert to  the semi-wild then fully wild state."

I'm lost again. You don't have the animal, as long as it's not wild? Dafuq?

You get familiar so it doesn't get wild?

I understand this one.

Is that... a euphemism for something? Innuendo? I guess "familiarity" could imply something sexual, but I'm a little lost.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: LMeire on April 18, 2016, 07:31:47 pm
I think he's talking about leaving the shrine on repeat and thus not noticing when he snatches something out of the wild; because at that point, you've got a semi-wild animal that hasn't been assigned a trainer and it's steadily getting closer to your fortress' meeting areas when suddenly it reverts to being wild and you get nothing- or worse, it got close enough to your war-animals that they attack it and lower you nature score. Having a higher "knowledge" (general familiarity) stat on the species would help that situation, because you'd have more time to notice and give it training before it reverted. Though frankly, that could be avoided altogether by paying more attention to your Alerts screen, because IIRC it lets you know when you've lured something to the Gnome side of the Force.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Dozebôm Lolumzalìs on April 18, 2016, 08:05:53 pm
Ah, I see.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: 123nick on May 02, 2016, 04:59:05 pm
sorry, i forgot i posted this a while ago. a problem i was having is that , id get animals via the recruit animals from animal shrine, then id have too like, wait while they are in cages for them too become wild then re-train them , rinse repeat till i get some general knowledge of the animal. if we got general knowledge of any animal we tamed via the natural shrine immediatly after we tamed it, it would make it more usable and convenient
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: GMichelIV on June 03, 2016, 11:29:32 am
I miss the gnomes! Any chance they will be brought over to the new revision???
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on June 03, 2016, 11:38:41 am
I miss the gnomes! Any chance they will be brought over to the new revision???
Send a PM to IndigoFenix, he is their author.

I removed them for now, because most features were not working, due to heavy reliance on dfhack scripts that dont work with the new version.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: milo christiansen on June 04, 2016, 01:15:29 pm
I did make a new version of most of the powered workshop stuff for IndigoFenix quite a while ago, but he never did anything with them (they should still work with only minor changes).

If anyone is interested the last version I made is over here (http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=10706).
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: IndigoFenix on June 06, 2016, 01:05:59 pm
If that still works, I'll see about rebuilding the raws.  Just as long as it's something I can do with minimal fort mode testing.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: randomgenericusername on June 14, 2016, 12:21:42 pm
i would really enjoy seeing the gnomes back (btw are the warloks still on the mod? i havent found any)
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: NukeACitrus on August 29, 2016, 07:52:13 pm
Just adding my voice to the "we'd like to see the gnomes again" chouire.

One of my favorite things with the goblins was their reliance on DF machinery in a way that no other race does. Sure, dorfs could still use some nifty trap-rooms, but a solid hammer to the face tends to be more than enough to calm any invader down. I remember building this huge pumpstack as the gnomes, pumping water up to hill from the caverns, using it to feed our drowning chamber. As the water reached the roof, we'd open floodgates on the sides, releasing our clockwork sharks upon the enemy, who were less likely to be able to fight back while submerged. Good times...

I also understand that it's a lot of work creating mods like this one! Great work so far anyway, I'll remember the gnomes as the homocidal little bastards that they are :)
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: 123nick on September 16, 2016, 09:57:53 am
Just adding my voice to the "we'd like to see the gnomes again" chouire.

One of my favorite things with the goblins was their reliance on DF machinery in a way that no other race does. Sure, dorfs could still use some nifty trap-rooms, but a solid hammer to the face tends to be more than enough to calm any invader down. I remember building this huge pumpstack as the gnomes, pumping water up to hill from the caverns, using it to feed our drowning chamber. As the water reached the roof, we'd open floodgates on the sides, releasing our clockwork sharks upon the enemy, who were less likely to be able to fight back while submerged. Good times...

I also understand that it's a lot of work creating mods like this one! Great work so far anyway, I'll remember the gnomes as the homocidal little bastards that they are :)
i always used the drilling rig to bring up liquids. its why i love gnomes- u can have lava without the labor of having to build a pump stack. id love them in 43.05, but it would be quite a hard task.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: 123nick on September 16, 2016, 02:47:11 pm
also, a bit offtopic, but i have been having a bug with gnomes: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=160585.0
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: leontas2007 on September 29, 2016, 06:16:41 pm
so.. can someone explain..

this thread is about the idea of having gnomes playable in masterworks, or there is a version of masterworks with playable gnomes?
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: vonsch on September 29, 2016, 06:19:06 pm
The legacy version has playable gnomes... or at least did last time I played it.

The current version does not.  So far.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Meph on September 29, 2016, 06:51:48 pm
so.. can someone explain..

this thread is about the idea of having gnomes playable in masterworks, or there is a version of masterworks with playable gnomes?
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=125633.0 THIS version has gnomes. Its for 34.11, DF2014.
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Asin on March 08, 2017, 07:50:53 pm
If only someone could update this for the latest version of Masterwork DF...
Title: Re: ☼Gnomes☼ - Everything Gnome Mode
Post by: Gerdes on October 12, 2017, 06:49:01 pm
Just wondering if this mod is still alive or not, but it would be absolutely amazing in my opinion if this was updated for the newest versions of DF.

-Cheers!