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Author Topic: Europa Universalis IV  (Read 451552 times)

FritzPL

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #585 on: August 24, 2013, 02:34:54 pm »

I launch the game, and I instantly look how Poland is portrayed in this, and I am satisfied. I am very, very confused by so many little buttons and icons and things, but I'll get used to them. Then, I go over to the Americas, yeah, same old stuff, then I move West-
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Maxsimal

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #586 on: August 24, 2013, 03:46:05 pm »

Is it different enough from EU3 to justify a purchase?   From the early press, it didn't seem like it - what do people that are hands on with it feel?
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Eagle_eye

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #587 on: August 24, 2013, 03:49:30 pm »

I definitely like it a lot more. Trade, diplomacy/AI, and balance are all vastly improved. No more monopolizing all of Europe's trade as the Netherlands, and no more world conquests by 1600. The coalitions are somewhat irritating, but they're a good concept that'll probably get fixed up by patches or mods. Technology is the usual nonsense, but there will always be mods for that.
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Dutchling

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #588 on: August 24, 2013, 03:50:57 pm »

Is it different enough from EU3 to justify a purchase?   From the early press, it didn't seem like it - what do people that are hands on with it feel?
There are differences, but if you hated EU3 I doubt you will like EU4 much.

I love it though.
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lemon10

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #589 on: August 24, 2013, 04:17:48 pm »

I would wait. Paradox typically has oddles of DLC/expansions.

I do feel its better then EU3 even now, but there are quite a few hings that feel rather raw and could be fixed up (eg. the current state of coalitions), and I am sure that with 2-3 expansions under its belt there will be quite a bit more content.

EDIT: That said, you you are willing to buy all the DLC/expansions at full price (and pay full price for it right now too), then go ahead, is a pretty fun game already.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2013, 04:30:32 pm by lemon10 »
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Micro102

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #590 on: August 24, 2013, 04:42:09 pm »

I definitely like it a lot more. Trade, diplomacy/AI, and balance are all vastly improved. No more monopolizing all of Europe's trade as the Netherlands, and no more world conquests by 1600. The coalitions are somewhat irritating, but they're a good concept that'll probably get fixed up by patches or mods. Technology is the usual nonsense, but there will always be mods for that.

I liked how absurdly strong you could get. Whats the fun if you can't take any country, abuse the hell out of the game, and take over the world???

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Mictlantecuhtli

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #591 on: August 24, 2013, 04:44:51 pm »

No more monopolizing all of Europe's trade as the Netherlands, and no more world conquests by 1600.

Being the Netherlands generally gives you de-facto control over Antwerp, where a majority of the world's trade drains to..

I liked how absurdly strong you could get. Whats the fun if you can't take any country, abuse the hell out of the game, and take over the world???

I don't know about others, but its incredibly easy to blob. As anyone. I've now formed Netherlands+ from Frisia, united Muslims as Oman, nearly conquered all of India as Kwailor. Only hindrance is waiting a year or two to create claims out of thin air to get a CB and core after conquest in nearly no time. It's a mad landgrab and whoever blobs quicker will win. Oh, and spam trade ships.

Mods are getting better. I've found a bunch of things I can change in easily editable files. Don't like lucky nation bonuses? Change them. Want there to be higher penalties for inflation in costs of troops? I've made it so loans add +1 inflation and +.1 revolt risk, to keep me from spamming loans. Presumably the AI as well.

Still crossing my fingers waiting for MEIOU&Taxes, though.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2013, 04:49:44 pm by Mictlantecuhtli »
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Eagle_eye

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #592 on: August 24, 2013, 04:48:44 pm »

It's easy to blob, but not nearly to the extent of EUIII. And I don't know about your games, but in mine, Antwerp very rarely gets the majority of trade. Generally, it's roughly even between London, Bordeaux, and Seville.
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Mictlantecuhtli

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #593 on: August 24, 2013, 04:52:22 pm »

I'm speaking from experience as super Frisia Netherlands. Bordeaux/London have no trade staying in their nodes, and a majority of Seville's is diverted downstream by a measly 40 ships. I've found it to be very easy to game the trade mechanics and have 10+ income as minors. AI sucks at building trade ships.
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Andrew425

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #594 on: August 24, 2013, 05:42:04 pm »

Just wait until the English embargo you.
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Mictlantecuhtli

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #595 on: August 24, 2013, 07:54:46 pm »

Just wait until the English embargo you.

They have 20 ships, since I destroyed their navy with my trade route fleets [mostly by accident], because they were allied with someone who DOW'd me, its the price of loyalty, I suppose. 80% of London node goes to Antwerp. England is so screwed by revolts in every game it's hardly fair for them with Netherlands around.

Embargoes are hardly very effective if the majority of the power in the node is the one you're cutting yourself off of. I could even be real nice and divert Bordeaux/North Sea around them. I think the AI knows this.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2013, 07:56:21 pm by Mictlantecuhtli »
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MoLAoS

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #596 on: August 24, 2013, 08:26:48 pm »

I like to conquer India as Ceylon in less than 100 years. Wee.
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PanH

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #597 on: August 25, 2013, 04:31:35 pm »

I don't know about others, but its incredibly easy to blob. As anyone. I've now formed Netherlands+ from Frisia, united Muslims as Oman, nearly conquered all of India as Kwailor. Only hindrance is waiting a year or two to create claims out of thin air to get a CB and core after conquest in nearly no time. It's a mad landgrab and whoever blobs quicker will win. Oh, and spam trade ships.
Coring is very costly though, it's better to have a vassal do it for you, and then diplo annex it, which gives you his cores. It costs you 1 diplomat and 1 diplo relations for a few years, but that can give a bunch of cores for no admin points.
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Mictlantecuhtli

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #598 on: August 25, 2013, 06:15:38 pm »

Coring is the only thing besides stability that I use admin points for. And I only bother to go to +1 stability for the most part, anything more is for when I'm too far ahead to upgrade due to my pool. Administrative idea groups are neigh-useless and I make sure to fabricate claims on provinces I'm taking before I go to war, so the costs were always >50 [sometimes even down to 10's]. I made it so even with claims it costs me about 100 and I can still core-conquest on a whim much of the time.

This is because even without !!Lucky!! rulers not building infrastructure makes it so you can get incredibly far ahead in tech with almost no effort. So, do you go ahead and save past your cap or continue to blob [to fight the unrealistically-worldwide-growing coalitions]? Gold is nearly useless in this game; and military buildings only use military points [instead of 25% 25% 50% like I think it should, to represent the building, negotiation with locals, etc].

On annexing: I'm thinking of upping the costs of individual province requests in war negotiation, to prevent you from snagging all the best tax-producing provinces with a 'Conquer x' [where x is a backwater 1-base tax province] due to a mission giving you a claim out of thin air.
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Might keep people from going to war all the damn time if they can't afford to come to peace.

On that note; I'm fiddling with missions and going to see if there's real ones, even flavor ones, hidden beneath the 'Conquer x' ones that appear all the damn time. I'm tired of the only missions appearing being Conquer/Savethepeopleof That [the only motivation to taking these missions is the fact that it auto-creates claims for you, which makes world conquest invariably easy if you're already in a strong position to begin with, unless you think +5 prestige (one battle's worth) is the motivator to choose these..] and Build Fort.

I'm also starting to become severely against the 'annex vassal' mechanic. You can sell a 'vassal' [someone you create out of thin air directly after signing peace with..] provinces, buy a Diplomatic Reputation+5 adviser, and annex the whole thing, with free cores, in less than five years. That doesn't seem right. There's no *Force stop annexation* casus belli, so AI will not attempt to stop you from blobbing in this way, unless I've missed it because no one will lift a finger to stop such things.

I seem to do just great with the constant stream of free claims given by missions and quick core conversions. Only thing that takes too long in my opinion is religious conversion, due to the wonky mechanics behind it. Either buy the missionary +2 adviser, buff it with events/decision/piety cheese [Piety makes Muslim nations incredibly unbalanced for reasons I won't go into now], or watch your missionaries simply never accomplish anything. Ugh. I'd prefer the 2% chance a month to taking 111+ months. I'd prefer a flat rate of conversion, something like 5 years to convert then with the modifiers taken into account. But nope.


Oh. And I made it so full military maintenance only adds 1.5 morale to the max. To represent that it should be baseline morale, not make up a majority of your discipline. Turns those military tech levels into something more than a 'bolting a spear onto a bulldozer' kind of thing. Tech levels should represent your military coming into discipline, not your damn maintenance slider. The slider is still incredibly important early-game, though.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2013, 06:21:17 pm by Mictlantecuhtli »
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Chaoswizkid

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #599 on: August 25, 2013, 06:44:12 pm »

I'm also starting to become severely against the 'annex vassal' mechanic. You can sell a 'vassal' [someone you create out of thin air directly after signing peace with..] provinces, buy a Diplomatic Reputation+5 adviser, and annex the whole thing, with free cores, in less than five years. That doesn't seem right. There's no *Force stop annexation* casus belli, so AI will not attempt to stop you from blobbing in this way, unless I've missed it because no one will lift a finger to stop such things.

Unfortunately, that's the only real way to WC right now unless you just don't care about overextension. Due to how long it takes to core things, getting a core on the last province in the game (there are 1419 provinces) would take almost 216 years by itself. Just coring the 500th province would take 78 years. Therefore, creating vassals, selling them a bunch of land, making super blobs out of them, and then annexing them for free cores is about the only way you can do it. I don't agree with that approach either, it's just how things are done currently. Definitely needs to be fixed, I can't imagine how Paradox expected anyone to conquer the world without what is, IMO, a serious exploit. That is, unless they just expected people to do it with gobs and gobs of overextension, or if there are new qualifiers for "world = conquered".

Also, the reason why the AI doesn't lift a finger to stop you is because you need 190 relations to annex a vassal. Unless those relations plummet into the dirt, they aren't going to do anything because they like you too much. However, I would like to point out that the wording on diplo-annexing a vassal gives the impression that you can only annex one vassal every ten years...
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