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Author Topic: WH40K discussion thread: from Tyran's heart I stab at thee.  (Read 971684 times)

Andres

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Re: Warhammer 40K thread: from the Warp it cameth forth: Plot Advancement.
« Reply #8220 on: February 02, 2017, 04:00:20 am »

What's going on with Ynnead right now?
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Digital Hellhound

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Re: Warhammer 40K thread: from the Warp it cameth forth: Plot Advancement.
« Reply #8221 on: February 02, 2017, 01:32:01 pm »

A rather cool look at early Games Workshop and their attempts to get Warhammer/40k fiction written. The article's from at a time when Abnett was considered a new author, which is a pity - would've been nice to get the author's view on the success of HH too. Best bit: they reached out (unsuccessfully) to Terry Pratchett at one point! I'm trying to wrap my head around what that'd been like.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Warhammer 40K thread: from the Warp it cameth forth: Plot Advancement.
« Reply #8222 on: February 02, 2017, 01:36:59 pm »

I don't think it would have been possible for Pratchett to employ the Warhammer style.
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Tack

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Re: Warhammer 40K thread: from the Warp it cameth forth: Plot Advancement.
« Reply #8223 on: February 02, 2017, 04:09:43 pm »

Yeah "everything Grim & Dark" would've been crazy for Terry.
I mean possible maybe but still.
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Yeah, he's a banned spammer. Normally we'd delete this thread too, but people were having too much fun with it by the time we got here.

Digital Hellhound

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Re: Warhammer 40K thread: from the Warp it cameth forth: Plot Advancement.
« Reply #8224 on: February 02, 2017, 04:43:22 pm »

That particular offer was for early Fantasy, but yeah. In case you didn't read it, Pterry actually agreed, but the contract didn't work out:

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The third yes came from Terry Pratchett (!): 'What a delightful world, with many original touches. In Robert Robinson's telling phrase, it looks as though the writers learned the language in a hurry in order to sell beads to the natives. But provided no one expects me to take it as seriously as it clearly takes itself, count me in as interested at least as far as knowing what the "usual rates" in this case are.'

In a later note Terry wrote, 'I feel a bit like King Herod being invited to write the newsletter for the Bethlehem Playground Association.'
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Grim Portent

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Re: Warhammer 40K thread: from the Warp it cameth forth: Plot Advancement.
« Reply #8225 on: February 02, 2017, 06:38:52 pm »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I think I may have posted this guy several months back when I was just starting to convert his unit, and then they all go shoved to one side for other projects.

Finally decided to actually put paint to plastic though, and here we have the first of my Chaos Rough Riders, with accompanying warhound.
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Re: Warhammer 40K thread: from the Warp it cameth forth: Plot Advancement.
« Reply #8226 on: February 02, 2017, 06:46:34 pm »

I see cultist bits, Khorne bits and... Marauder? Bits.

That's some pretty epic conversion work there.
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Yeah, he's a banned spammer. Normally we'd delete this thread too, but people were having too much fun with it by the time we got here.

nenjin

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Re: Warhammer 40K thread: from the Warp it cameth forth: Plot Advancement.
« Reply #8227 on: February 02, 2017, 08:41:04 pm »

A rather cool look at early Games Workshop and their attempts to get Warhammer/40k fiction written. The article's from at a time when Abnett was considered a new author, which is a pity - would've been nice to get the author's view on the success of HH too. Best bit: they reached out (unsuccessfully) to Terry Pratchett at one point! I'm trying to wrap my head around what that'd been like.

Man I have been waiting to read something like this for years. I guess it's never been clear to me how soul crushing it must have been sometimes for British authors to write this stuff. Their great literary tradition and so forth.

There's just so many amazing lines in this thing.

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Cheryl recalls, 'I only met [Ansell] a few times, and the thing that struck me most was his desire to live in a gated community with machine guns on the gates so he could keep the riff-raff out. He had a very Texan view of life.'

Or

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Meanwhile Ian Watson had begun to find his own way through the 40K maze....'When David [Pringle] originally asked me to join in, he tried to steer me towards 40K because I'm an SF writer not a fantasy writer … So I learned the Encyclopaedia Psychotica Galactica and I wrote a trial 40K short story which initially read a bit like a piss-take. Scourged by David, I then hallucinated myself into the 40K milieu, and began to have enormous mad fun in broodingly, Gothically, luridly going over the top. That's when it all gelled, and the "Inquisition War" trilogy came about.'

Or

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Watson told us how war-gaming dates back to HG Wells in 1913, and went on to explain to the startled gathering that Warhammer fiction has a certain integrity because — just as in the Warhammer game — for most of history humanity has been driven by mass psychoses based on power fantasies. "Yes, but look on the bright side!" we all cried.'

Or

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The books are fairly central to the GW project these days. David Garnett says, 'I've recently been told by one of the GW shop managers that the big, detailed manuals [which we used as reference] no longer exist — and that the best way for gamers to find out the background to the Warhammer world is through the novels.'

Or

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Meanwhile the challenge of complying with the Warhammer universes continues beyond the grave, so to speak. For a long time Black Library remained reluctant about Ian Watson's 'Inquisition War' books. 'My books looked as though they would never be reissued, despite me receiving umpteen e-mails from Desperately Seeking in America, Australia, Germany, wherever. After I had banged on at the Black Library for several years about all these e-mails I had to answer, GW finally decided to reissue my "classics" with fictional prefaces denouncing the books, my suggestion, as tissues of heresy and lies, the ideal solution …

Or

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Space Marine won't be returning as, apparently, its central concepts are too far from the changed world of the game, but Black Library are considering making it available online.

Lol, that's putting it diplomatically.

Or

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Alex Stewart has also gone back to GW. '[After GW] reprinted my old Warhammer story in The Laughter of Dark Gods ... I ended up being invited to do some shorts for Inferno! … They liked the first one so much I'm doing a series for the magazine about the same character [the Flashman-esque Commissar Ciaphas Cain], and I've just signed a contract to spin him off into a novel [to be called For the Emperor!]. I have to say they're a lot more professional and easy to deal with these days … The Stalinist horrors of the Ansell era are long gone ... Feedback is quick and supportive, rewrites are only requested for continuity reasons or to make something work better, and I'm positively encouraged to subvert the source material if I feel like it.'

This shit is priceless. From the creepiness of Ansell's ownership of the universe and how no one shirks away from saying how focused on money GWS was and is....it's kind of affirming as a fan, in a reflective, semi-ugly kind of way. When I joke about GWS space fortresses made of money, welded together with tears....this makes it a little more believable. Maybe that's why, for a fan, the Imperial Cult just rings true.....because it was and still is treated like a cult of worship by GWS. It's a product of fanaticism and zealotry. Life imitating art, or art imitating life.

Kinda makes you wonder what it really means for the company with Age of Sigmar etc...if that zealous fanaticism that has kept the franchise distinct might start to wane as it becomes more diluted by people further removed from the source. If GWS is their fiction and the fiction is GWS....you kind of have to have an oppressive overlord of grimdark gaming don't you? A kinder, friendlier GWS signals the death of the universe as it's been. I suppose that's what some people actually want, so the setting can go somewhere beyond where Ansell left it.

Anyway, this article somewhat reflects a few of my experiences with the Black Library when it was a web forum. (I too had delusions of writing for GWS one day.) Authors would pop in and talk about stuff but anything actually about GWS was always a little guarded....and then they vaporized the forums in favor of a storefront where there was no discussion, contests or correspondence with the staff. That totally broke my heart.

Also I just can't get over how Ian Watson is considered a heretic in modern GWS. The irony is damn near cosmic. The guy who had to shock Ansell now is printable only with a qualifier attached to it. He's written the only 40k novels that, despite all the nasty chaos-inspired shit that's been written over the years, I actually consider lurid.

I guess it's just fascinating to read what people who did not chug the koolaid honestly think about GWS and 40k. Also makes you wonder a little...if this thing you love as fiction is actually someone's idealized, fucked up future.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2017, 09:40:12 pm by nenjin »
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Kot

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Re: Warhammer 40K thread: from the Warp it cameth forth: Plot Advancement.
« Reply #8228 on: February 02, 2017, 10:56:54 pm »

GWS never change.
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Andres

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Re: Warhammer 40K thread: from the Warp it cameth forth: Plot Advancement.
« Reply #8229 on: February 03, 2017, 05:16:47 am »

What does GWS stand for?

Why are the Dark Elves (Warhammer Fantasy) so fucked up?
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Ghazkull

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Re: Warhammer 40K thread: from the Warp it cameth forth: Plot Advancement.
« Reply #8230 on: February 03, 2017, 07:35:30 am »

Because all Elves are fucked up my dear Andres, all elves are. Comes with the immortality.

In other news watched the new ork mission for DOW 3...WHAT HAVE YE DONE, YOU DESTROYED IT YOU MADMEN!
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Grim Portent

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Re: Warhammer 40K thread: from the Warp it cameth forth: Plot Advancement.
« Reply #8231 on: February 03, 2017, 09:49:41 am »

What does GWS stand for?

Why are the Dark Elves (Warhammer Fantasy) so fucked up?

GWS is Games WorkShop.

Dark Elves are a splinter faction from the race with the biggest racial superiority complex in the entire world, and when that world includes Dwarves, Orcs, Goblins, Ogres, Humans and the Skaven that's saying something. Remember that in this setting the Wood Elves callously murder, and possibly eat, any human that sets foot in their land, and the High Elves frequently go 'meh, let the savages die' when war and plague threaten the rest of the world. Elves in fantasy are horrible people to start with.

On top of that the leaders of the Dark Elves are a scarred, paranoid, embittered warlord who rules through murder and threats of melting people with his dragons acid breath, and his Slaaneshi cultist mother. They murder any male elf who learns magic in their lands to ward off a prophecy of the Kings death.

They worship a war god whose main domain is murder as their primary deity, and who grants their witch priests extended lifespans and youth if they bathe in blood.

They live in a frozen hellhole bordered by Lizardmen to the south and Chaos Warriors to the north, both of whom would happily kill and eat them.

And their main purpose as a culture is to someday invade the island nation of Ulthuan and put Malekith on the throne of the Phoenix King, a war that has been waged for thousands of years.
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Teneb

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Re: Warhammer 40K thread: from the Warp it cameth forth: Plot Advancement.
« Reply #8232 on: February 03, 2017, 09:50:02 am »

What does GWS stand for?

Why are the Dark Elves (Warhammer Fantasy) so fucked up?
GWS = Games WorkShop

All elves in WHF are fucked up in some way.

High Elves consider themselves the only true civilization (treating humans as barely-tolerable cavemen and dwarfs as drunken barbarians), and custodians of the world (not true, actually the Lizardmen), despite being considered failures along with everyone else, minus Ogres (who are just incomplete), by the Old Ones.

Wood Elves are elves who, when their lands were ravaged during the War of the Beard, decided to say 'fuck Ulthuan' and went into the creepy forest (Athel Loren) they lived near. There they somehow became sort-of buddies with the psychotic, murderous tree spirits and changed to become like that themselves.

Finally, the Dark Elves are pretty much the High Elves if they dropped the whole "High Elf's Burden" thing and just decided that all the other races, being inferior, should serve the elves as slaves. They are also huge fans of the elf god of murder.

So you have, respectively, Douche Elves, Asshole Elves, and Psychopath Elves.

Ninja'd, but I typed all this.
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Re: Warhammer 40K thread: from the Warp it cameth forth: Plot Advancement.
« Reply #8233 on: February 03, 2017, 10:21:36 am »

The problems with elves arent their megalomania, which I can endorse.  Its their focus on perfection, which I do not share.

They need to be 'graceful' and 'perfect' in everything.  I rather like being a somewhat hulking mass of meat that gets it done with force and occasionally some on-the-fly improv.

Humanity fuck yea
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Neonivek

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Re: Warhammer 40K thread: from the Warp it cameth forth: Plot Advancement.
« Reply #8234 on: February 03, 2017, 10:58:11 am »

The problems with elves arent their megalomania, which I can endorse.  Its their focus on perfection, which I do not share.

They need to be 'graceful' and 'perfect' in everything.  I rather like being a somewhat hulking mass of meat that gets it done with force and occasionally some on-the-fly improv.

Humanity fuck yea

I think it is part of the problem but not for the reasons that you put

The fact that they need to be "Perfect always!" usually is why they are written with trees up their butt and end up being pompous snobs who cannot understand why the other races act so boorish. Which is fine except that is almost ALWAYS what elves get depicted as.

I prefer my version of Elves where their "Perfection" leads them to get into a state of perpetual boredom, they are extremely long lived and essentially in their prime (a super prime) forever... So even achievement itself kind of loses its luster when an elf can basically achieve whatever they want... So they end up with jobs that have no real end goal like musician... Sure you can be a great musician but you can't consistently make perfect ballads, nor can you sit on your laurels.

But you would probably like Elves from Rune Factory. Which is that they are all a little bit crazy, eccentric by nature and obsessed with their goal in life to the point where they remake their entire loves around it.
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