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I am religious and believe in free will

70 (27.6%)

I am religious and do not believe in free will

10 (3.9%)

I am not religious and believe in free will

113 (44.5%)

I am not religious and do not believe in free will

61 (24%)

Total Members Voted: 249

[Dwarf4Explosives]

See, that's why I didn't want to mention it. My brain goes weird places when I'm sleepy.

[Frumple]

I know there is a verse that says something like: the spirit intercedes with groans.

Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.

Huh. Isn't that more or less the exact opposite of a verse detailing a recalcitrant god? Definitely seems like a rough translation, but it does read as the spirit interceding for those whose troubles ("groanings") are so deep they can't be properly communicated.

[origamiscienceguy]

I assumed that it was because the father will not be around sin, and we are sinners, so the holy spirit acts as a middleman. I don't know why it is groaning, maybe because of all the sin?

[Loud Whispers]

What's the Greek?

[Frumple]

I assumed that it was because the father will not be around sin, and we are sinners, so the holy spirit acts as a middleman. I don't know why it is groaning, maybe because of all the sin?

Surrounding bits of verse seem to suggest it's just because of suffering, maybe or maybe not due to sin, near as I could parse. Bit of a headache, and at least the NIV translation of romans 8 is a goddamn misery to read.

Definitely doesn't seem to be suggesting the spirit as a middlecreature, exactly, though -- later bits of roman 8, at the least, seemed to be fairly explicit about the father-bits being happy to get involved. Pretty sure there's plenty of that aspect getting involved to various degrees of directness with sinners throughout the rest of canon, anyway.

[Rose]

Can you expand on what happened, or is it too private? What was it that indicated what you say, if you don't mind me asking?

Oh, it was actually pretty silly.

I was in a paper airplane competition, and prayed for some wind to carry the airplane further.

I got a sudden gust of wind just as I launched it, ruining the launch and sending the plane tumbling.

[origamiscienceguy]

I suppose you technically got your wish.

[Orange Wizard]

I used to make all kinds of silly prayers like that when I was a kid. I can't say the lack of outcome shaped any of my beliefs today, though.

[TD1]

Same. I often prayed for things to turn out some particular way, but it never seemed to impact the results.

[i2amroy]

I've got sort of a counter example to the praying to god getting answered thing, where I essentially made an entreaty to a known fictional god and got an answer.

So basically I was playing Tales of Symphonia on the Gamecube and or really old TV and we were currently having a lot of difficulties beating the Summon Spirit of Lightning, Volt. After a few times losing to it I jokingly picked up our cat (who was a great sport for this sort of thing) and lightly tossed him onto the top bunk bed that was placed right over the top of the TV while saying "I make this sacrificial offering to the great god of lightning, Volt!". Instant the cat touches the bed there was a sudden power surge that made both the gamecube and tv turn off, along with all the clocks, radio, etc. (nothing was fried, they all just either turned off from the surge or did a reset). After laughing at it for a bit my brother and I restart the Gamecube and stomp the guy we were having so much trouble with without any of the problems we were having in previous fights against him showing up at all.

The experience didn't really effect my later choice of belief in life (which is atheism), but I'd guess you could say that it definitely stands for me as an example that sometimes crazy coincidences do happen, and just because they happen to occur right after you entreat some sort of a supernatural entity doesn't necessarily mean that said entity actually heard you and responded. (Alternatively I need to get in touch with the Tales of Symphonia dev's and find out which one of them has got an in with the powers that be. )

[Rose]

Like I said, it was pretty silly.

But it did strike me at the time as a "Okay, here, now leave me alone" kind of answer.

[Bohandas]

I think I should avoid this thread when I'm sleepy. The way I interpreted that resulted in a train of thought that led to a "Yo momma" joke about Jesus.

So non-Catholic Christianity then

[Bohandas]

... ew.

I know there is a verse that says something like: the spirit intercedes with groans.

Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.

"Wherefore my bowels shall sound like an harp for Moab, and mine inward parts for Kirharesh." -Isiah 16:11 KJV

[SirQuiamus]

Instant the cat touches the bed there was a sudden power surge that made both the gamecube and tv turn off, along with all the clocks, radio, etc.

And that's why you gotta be careful with cats: their animal magnetism is very strong.

[redwallzyl]

all hail Zun the great sun god of Iceland! Praise the Sun! Praise it!

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/12/08/458928720/icelanders-opposed-to-government-support-for-religion-form-a-religion-of-their-o