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[ZeroGravitas]

Caves of Qud has a lot going on under the hood for a fairly standard roguelike. Like randomly generated historical figures to learn about and find the burial places of, randomly generated books that are semi-readable, randomly generated villages, and occasional randomly generated hostile NPCs (like in TOME 4, sometimes OP, sometimes weak).

The Paradox method tends to be... Disguise simplicity AS complexity without really having the interlocking requirements to go all the way.

Hence Crusader Kings 2... and why no matter what relationship statuses are... People will still want each other's deaths. To name one.

Yes I am still bitter about that. Destroyed the entire game for me that nothing mattered.

Super agreed.

+1 to all of this, from Paradox to Qud.

[Trolldefender99]

I bought war in the pacific (wow is that expensive), but haven't started yet. I guess its a niche game so niche price, but I did see a video of it and it looks pretty intense. Like...someone said its almost not a game, and its pretty accurate.

Hopefully the interface has aged gracefully - (I know that it's a bit different since we're talking about it in the Bay12 forums, where we are used to pain) - because as I remember when I played (many years ago, now) there was a lot of click-throughs required to really get into the meat of commanding your forces.

That said, it's an amazing game - best if you can find someone to play against, since the AI isn't terribly bright. I can still remember a squadron of WW1-era biplane torpedo bombers that I intentionally didn't upgrade, because their upgrade path turned them into some very, very poor fighter-bombers. I managed to launch a surprise attack with them against a taskforce that had little or no cap, and these flying relics actually managed to put a couple torpedoes into a battleship.

The pilots, naturally thrilled with this outcome, reported they'd managed to sink the ship; although when I was discussing it later with my opponent, learned that the ship had only been put into dry dock for ~6 months.

I'm watching this guy play it (War in the Pacific). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OkROhMEEqM

 Interface seems okay to me. Then again, I'm one of those people that doesn't tend to get bothered by how an interface is. So I can't say how good it is or not. It does look pretty complicated though, will take a long time to figure it out

I also picked up Caves of Qud since a few recommended it here already. That one looks like an amazing roguelike.

[Iduno]

I also picked up Caves of Qud since a few recommended it here already. That one looks like an amazing roguelike.

Good news is, even if you don't like the game, you can get your money's worth by reading the patch notes. One of the devs also had a lot of Tweets (if that's your thing) while developing the machine learning to write the books. It was like a curated version of the generator spam thread, including one about a mustached hero in red who ate mushrooms.

[ndkid]

Okay, okay. Yeah I know this is from 2016...

But the topic was mentioned on Rule the Waves 2 thread. And I was looking for complex games...and then I discovered Mars Simulation Project + war in the pacific, which I never heard about either.

I bought war in the pacific (wow is that expensive), but haven't started yet. I guess its a niche game so niche price, but I did see a video of it and it looks pretty intense. Like...someone said its almost not a game, and its pretty accurate.

Mars Simulation Project is still getting updates apparently? Their facebook is active, so I assume its still a thing. Can't find any videos on it though, get a bunch of stuff about surviving mars instead. But it sounds like a game I was wanting out of surviving mars, but super niche and complex I guess. We'll see when I get started.

So I haven't played both yet, and yeah this is from 2016...this is probably the biggest necro thread the forum has ever seen that wasn't from a bot or spammer lol. But both games look so amazing that I had to comment on it.

And hey maybe there'll be games since 2016 that are just as good and complex (besides rule the waves 2)

Huh, MSP looks way nicer than when I last remember seeing it... what, a decade ago? If you told me I'd seen it two decades ago, I wouldn't be shocked.

WitP is quite the monster... I think I tried to do the full campaign about three times, and never quite made it. The interface definitely isn't improved in Admiral's Edition compared to the original. But, especially playing as Japan, and getting to decide how much of each engine and plane I was going to produce felt so yummy, and was precisely the itch that Rule the Waves scratches so well.

[shovelmonkey]

Mars simulation project. Not really complex per say but fucking deep and detailed, dwarf fortress style deep and maybe even more. Think what would happen if DF became a space colony type simulator management. Sank so much hour in that thing its crazy deep and can be complex at time.

http://mars-sim.sourceforge.net/

While we are getting blasted from the past; anyone still playing this one? Why haven't I heard about this?

[Trolldefender99]

Mars simulation project. Not really complex per say but fucking deep and detailed, dwarf fortress style deep and maybe even more. Think what would happen if DF became a space colony type simulator management. Sank so much hour in that thing its crazy deep and can be complex at time.

http://mars-sim.sourceforge.net/

While we are getting blasted from the past; anyone still playing this one? Why haven't I heard about this?

I haven't been able to get it to work. I followed the instructions and set the java to the path, but its super confusing because there are a ton of java versions and java 11 that is their supported version (through their more up to date GitHub page) doesn't seem to work. Doesn't even launch at all. A box opens then closes right away. Its pretty finicky to get working it appears. And beware of the fake java links that popup on google.

[Vivalas]

I played it a few times

Mars simulation project. Not really complex per say but fucking deep and detailed, dwarf fortress style deep and maybe even more. Think what would happen if DF became a space colony type simulator management. Sank so much hour in that thing its crazy deep and can be complex at time.

http://mars-sim.sourceforge.net/

While we are getting blasted from the past; anyone still playing this one? Why haven't I heard about this?

I haven't been able to get it to work. I followed the instructions and set the java to the path, but its super confusing because there are a ton of java versions and java 11 that is their supported version (through their more up to date GitHub page) doesn't seem to work. Doesn't even launch at all. A box opens then closes right away. Its pretty finicky to get working it appears. And beware of the fake java links that popup on google.

I played it a few times but it felt way more like google earth with some very basic basebuilding stuff than a game. It's definitely more on the simulator side of things, as any challenge there is will need to be by your owj choosing. The last time I played it it didn't even auto-calculate flight times for resupply missions from Earth, you chose what you needed and when it would arrive, and if you wanted it would come instantly.

As an aside I don't think necroing threads is a bad thing. I don't understand why people get pissy about it or why people feel the need to justify it. I wouldn't have seen this thread or read about the some of these cool games otherwise.

[Trolldefender99]

I've been giving DCS World a try. I don't have any fancy joystick or anything like that. If I stick with it, I can always buy a proper setup. But I found a good setup to use with my xbox controller, and there is a (small?) group of people that say they've played for years with a controller...but I'm sure proper flight simulator joystick and what not be better. In any case...

I'm about halfway through the tutorial and its pretty involved. Luckily my wife actually really enjoys it and even though she has never played a flight simulator before, she was teaching me how to play and what I was doing wrong and a ton better at it than me lol. But she does have some/a little experience since her uncle was/is in the airforce and so she knows the basics at least. I didn't even know how to take off properly and she knew right away lol.

But its nice that I found a game we both can play together.

[jocan2003]

Mars simulation project. Not really complex per say but fucking deep and detailed, dwarf fortress style deep and maybe even more. Think what would happen if DF became a space colony type simulator management. Sank so much hour in that thing its crazy deep and can be complex at time.

http://mars-sim.sourceforge.net/

While we are getting blasted from the past; anyone still playing this one? Why haven't I heard about this?

One hell of a blast yeah. I should try it again if i get the time.

[catacombs]

.

[Persus13]

I like playing Hearts of Iron 4, but its not even the most complex Hearts of Iron game, much less one of the most complex RTS games.

[catacombs]

.

[ChairmanPoo]

The Paradox method tends to be... Disguise simplicity AS complexity without really having the interlocking requirements to go all the way.

Hence Crusader Kings 2... and why no matter what relationship statuses are... People will still want eachother's deaths. To name one.

Yes I am still bitter about that. Destroyed the entire game for me that nothing mattered.

My father, the Padishah Emperor, took me by the hand one day and I sensed in the ways my mother had taught me that he was disturbed. He led me down the Hall of Portraits to the ego-likeness of the Duke Leto Atreides. I marked the strong resemblance between them--my father and this man in the portrait--both with thin, elegant faces and sharp features dominated by cold eyes. "Princess-daughter," my father said, "I would that you'd been older when it came time for this man to choose a woman." My father was 71 at the time and looking no older than the man in the portrait, and I was but 14, yet I remember deducing in that instant that my father secretly wished the Duke had been his son, and disliked the political necessities that made them enemies. 

When my father, the Padishah Emperor, heard of Duke Leto's death and the manner of it, he went into such a rage as we had never before seen. He blamed my mother and the compact forced on him to place a Bene Gesserit on the throne. He blamed the Guild and the evil old Baron. He blamed everyone in sight, not excepting even me, for he said I was a witch like all the others. And when I sought to comfort him, saying it was done according to an older law of self-preservation to which even the most ancient rulers gave allegiance, he sneered at me and asked if I thought him a weakling.

[Empty]

If anyone wants complex or convulated try Factorio Seablock.

Also try marathon mode if wanting for punishment.

[sambojin]

I like playing Hearts of Iron 4, but its not even the most complex Hearts of Iron game, much less one of the most complex RTS games.

Interesting. What's a more-complex RTS game than Ho4? I found EU4 and CK2 easier to learn.

Wargame: Red Dragon? Maybe. Very different genre though.