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Author Topic: Stonesense - Old Official thread - Now locked  (Read 1698760 times)

Askot Bokbondeler

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Re: Stonesense - Official thread - New Version Out Now!
« Reply #3135 on: May 09, 2010, 02:22:39 pm »

try 7zip, it's light and simple and free (as in free speech)

Petr Ga

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Re: Stonesense - Official thread - New Version Out Now!
« Reply #3136 on: May 09, 2010, 02:24:04 pm »

try 7zip, it's light and simple and free (as in free speech)

that or http://winrar.de/download.php or total commander - ghisler.com
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2: Give RMs a gas syndrome that causes RMs only to breed profusely.

Lonewolf I

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Re: Stonesense - Official thread - New Version Out Now!
« Reply #3137 on: May 09, 2010, 02:33:20 pm »

Got it working. Thank you!
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Greiger

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Re: Stonesense - Official thread - New Version Out Now!
« Reply #3138 on: May 09, 2010, 02:35:37 pm »

I'm just wondering how I can tell if content in the repository is compatible with the new release, or if it should be by default.

Yea I don't think much is compatible out of the box on the repository yet.  From what I've seen for creatures though it's usually just a simple find and replace job to make them compatible.  Go to the content's xml file and wherever you find 'sex="F"' replace it with 'sex="1"'  Find sex="M" and replace that with sex="2"

It won't have the new jobs yet but they should just put in whatever the maker set up as the default sprite if it can't determine the job.
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Disclaimer: Not responsible for dwarven deaths from the use or misuse of this post.
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Soralin

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Re: Stonesense - Official thread - New Version Out Now!
« Reply #3139 on: May 09, 2010, 04:06:24 pm »

Oh... sleep suspends it. And laptop...

Its not even that big of a map. even 10 hours is a bit excessive.

dont forget this is pure software renderer. nothing hardware accelerated due to image size
It seems like it wouldn't be that difficult to just use the hardware render, and just do it section by section, and then stitch them together after.  I mean, you can already do that by hand by just taking a bunch of screenshots of your fortress and pasting them together into one big image.
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peterix

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Re: Stonesense - Official thread - New Version Out Now!
« Reply #3140 on: May 09, 2010, 04:35:44 pm »

Oh... sleep suspends it. And laptop...

Its not even that big of a map. even 10 hours is a bit excessive.

dont forget this is pure software renderer. nothing hardware accelerated due to image size
It seems like it wouldn't be that difficult to just use the hardware render, and just do it section by section, and then stitch them together after.  I mean, you can already do that by hand by just taking a bunch of screenshots of your fortress and pasting them together into one big image.
Stonesense needs some optimization love. Actually, a lot of it. I did it for the previous release, but don't have time for messing around with it right now.  I do have some ideas on what to do though.

First, why the hell do a few sprites eat up so much memory that it doesn't work with integrated intel graphics? Does it load everything and then generate how each sprite looks for every single material? That would be most unfortunate and in dire need of replacement with a sprite cache with garbage collection.

Second, that whole-map-screenshot. As you said, it should piece it together from smaller parts. 20 hours is just too much ... hell, my browser can display that whole thing without any lag, it shouldn't take so long to generate.

Third - DFHack is not used effectively, and when the SDL merge hits, it will become even more apparent. Input code should be decoupled from display and maploading from everything else, by using a double-buffering scheme with DFHack being used in a thread. Everything should be as >ASYNCHRONOUS< as possible.

And there are probably heaps of other things that could be optimized... I would have to dig into the codebase.

Petr Ga

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Re: Stonesense - Official thread - New Version Out Now!
« Reply #3141 on: May 09, 2010, 04:40:36 pm »

...
And there are probably heaps of other things that could be optimized... I would have to dig into the codebase.

Best part of your post :) promising!

merge version will be tomorrow, guessing on dev log.
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Petr Ga

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Re: Stonesense - Official thread - New Version Out Now!
« Reply #3142 on: May 10, 2010, 02:07:41 am »

Oh... sleep suspends it. And laptop...

Its not even that big of a map. even 10 hours is a bit excessive.

ok i take another screenshot to measure that. now without that black tiles. Start: 20:10
....aaaaand it is finished in 07:06. So it took 10 hours and 56 minutes to produce this

(or this
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
)
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Maxxeh

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Re: Stonesense - Official thread - New Version Out Now!
« Reply #3143 on: May 10, 2010, 08:35:16 am »

that's a pretty horrific render time! as a 3D modeler, I use 3D rendering programs all the time, and hardly even need to wait that long for something 10x more complex than this! lol
I thought mine just crashed when I pressed it!

would 2x 8800ultra's not be able to render it faster? or at all? if you eneabled hardware rendering.

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Petr Ga

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Re: Stonesense - Official thread - New Version Out Now!
« Reply #3144 on: May 10, 2010, 08:41:26 am »

that's a pretty horrific render time! as a 3D modeler, I use 3D rendering programs all the time, and hardly even need to wait that long for something 10x more complex than this! lol
I thought mine just crashed when I pressed it!

would 2x 8800ultra's not be able to render it faster? or at all? if you eneabled hardware rendering.

i am not sure if you can enable it. it is hardcoded :) but "someone" will look into it. see above
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jonask84

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Re: Stonesense - Official thread - New Version Out Now!
« Reply #3145 on: May 10, 2010, 10:05:08 am »

Alright guys, keep your pants on ;)

I think we all agree that the whole map render feature is not at all a feature yet, but an experimental doodad (This is also sorta why it's not in the feature list yet). We had to focus our efforts elsewhere for this release, but I guess now that we have some spare time we can look at a smarter implementation.
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Maxxeh

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Re: Stonesense - Official thread - New Version Out Now!
« Reply #3146 on: May 10, 2010, 12:52:19 pm »

I understand entirely! lol,  it's not like it's actually important!

I think the fact that 3D visualisers havn't been released for 2010 yet increases the desirability to see the whole map.
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Djohaal

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Re: Stonesense - Official thread - New Version Out Now!
« Reply #3147 on: May 10, 2010, 01:42:18 pm »

Actually, instead of rendering a coherent surface map couldn't stonesense be told to take a batch of hardware-rendered pictures covering the whole map and then stich them together? Or maybe do like 3d renderers and render small portions at a time (buckets) via hardware.
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I really want that one as a "when". I want "grubs", and "virgin woman" to turn into a dragon. and monkey children to suddenly sprout wings. And I want the Dwarven Mutant Academy to only gain their powers upon reaching puberty. I also have a whole host of odd creatures that only make sense if I divide them into children and adults.

Also, tadpoles.

Petr Ga

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Re: Stonesense - Official thread - New Version Out Now!
« Reply #3148 on: May 11, 2010, 02:32:41 am »

Alright guys, keep your pants on ;)

I think we all agree that the whole map render feature is not at all a feature yet, but an experimental doodad (This is also sorta why it's not in the feature list yet). We had to focus our efforts elsewhere for this release, but I guess now that we have some spare time we can look at a smarter implementation.

Hey, I'm not complaining! :) It was posted just for sake of curiosity.
But if that gives you some message, then, yeah, quest completed

Let us know when code is fixed. I want to take world map - I hope it will be Ctrl-Shift-F5 :)
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Rose

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Re: Stonesense - Official thread - New Version Out Now!
« Reply #3149 on: May 11, 2010, 03:06:43 am »

OK, Q&A time.

@Full map screenshot: The reason it takes so long is because all of the images are stored in video ram by default, and writing from video ram to system ram (as happens when you take a large screenshot) or vice versa, takes a very long time. When all of the textures are in system ram, as will be an option in the next release, it will go far far far faster. (took me about 20 seconds)

Stonesense needs some optimization love. Actually, a lot of it. I did it for the previous release, but don't have time for messing around with it right now.  I do have some ideas on what to do though.

Sorry, my fault. I'm a freaking noob here... >_<

First, why the hell do a few sprites eat up so much memory that it doesn't work with integrated intel graphics? Does it load everything and then generate how each sprite looks for every single material? That would be most unfortunate and in dire need of replacement with a sprite cache with garbage collection.

No, no new sprites are generated.  The main cause of problems is not, in fact, the video memory reqirements, but OpenGL. Microsoft doesn't seem to like it, and so most onboard drivers that come with windows have shitty OpenGL support.

The only reason OpenGL is currently default is because the version of allegro being used for this release has drawing issues in DirectX. These are fixed in the next version, so DirectX will be the default, and there will be a software option as well. (but this one is kinda slow)

Second, that whole-map-screenshot. As you said, it should piece it together from smaller parts. 20 hours is just too much ... hell, my browser can display that whole thing without any lag, it shouldn't take so long to generate.

20 hours will be a thing of the past, thankfully.

The problem with peicing it together from smaller parts is that... hmm.... it's doable, actually, but I'm hoping after the next release it won't be needed.

Third - DFHack is not used effectively, and when the SDL merge hits, it will become even more apparent. Input code should be decoupled from display and maploading from everything else, by using a double-buffering scheme with DFHack being used in a thread. Everything should be as >ASYNCHRONOUS< as possible.

And there are probably heaps of other things that could be optimized... I would have to dig into the codebase.

Input code is decoupled from display, other than the arrow keys, which don't need to be, and the mouse, which should be... I'll go ahead and fix that.

As for making the rest of the stuff asynch, like I said, I
m a noob programmer that doesn't know how to do mystical threading voodoo ;)

I'm just wondering how I can tell if content in the repository is compatible with the new release, or if it should be by default.

Yea I don't think much is compatible out of the box on the repository yet.  From what I've seen for creatures though it's usually just a simple find and replace job to make them compatible.  Go to the content's xml file and wherever you find 'sex="F"' replace it with 'sex="1"'  Find sex="M" and replace that with sex="2"

It won't have the new jobs yet but they should just put in whatever the maker set up as the default sprite if it can't determine the job.

You don't need to do that. sex="M" and sex="F" still work fine, the numbers are only for if you have castes.

it's the jobs that are the issue, and you can use DFhack to get a list of valid ones. (or convince Jonask to include the lob list in the next release, I don't know why he took that out)

I want to take world map

No.
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