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Author Topic: Ouch ... you ok buddy?  (Read 29966 times)

Albedo

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Re: Ouch ... you ok buddy?
« Reply #60 on: November 06, 2009, 03:03:48 pm »

Problem is that unless you assign every dwarf their own bed, itinerants will grab the open, unassigned beds, even if they're not a "barracks".  And your wounded dwarf will wander in a grab a barracks bed if one is further to the left/top than your hospital.

It's not an easy fix.  :-\

Question: does pumping water can make it go up in the z-scales, or pumping is like rivers ; I need to pump each z-level individually?

Really basic and important concept if you're going to use pumps - read the wiki, on "pump" - there's MUCH more you probably want to know before going there.
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SolkaTruesilver

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Re: Ouch ... you ok buddy?
« Reply #61 on: November 06, 2009, 03:22:53 pm »

Problem is that unless you assign every dwarf their own bed, itinerants will grab the open, unassigned beds, even if they're not a "barracks".  And your wounded dwarf will wander in a grab a barracks bed if one is further to the left/top than your hospital.

It's not an easy fix.  :-\


I usually assign every dwarves to bed as soon as they step in my fortress. I am that awesome  8) But I usually plan ahead immigration waves...
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Aspgren

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Re: Ouch ... you ok buddy?
« Reply #62 on: November 07, 2009, 08:07:22 am »

The system I used for the recovery room was quite simple. I won't "draw" it up but I'll post ...

Since I wanted to submerge him in 5/7 water, I did the math and dug channels next to the river. The channels formed three rooms. Room 1: reservoir. Room 2: patient room. Room 3: drainage room.

The reservoir room had three floodgates in it. One to the river, and one towards each of the other rooms. There was a staircase in the drainage room to allow access, and a door in the patient room that was to be kept locked once the patient got in there.

I wanted 5/7 so I made the reservoir 5 tiles big. The patient room only 1x1. This would give me a total of  35 water in the reservoir, and when the floodgate to the patient room was opened - it'd be spread out over 7 tiles. Giving me the right amount.

Now the process went as follows. I opened the floodgate to the river, filled the reservoir. Closed to the river, opened to the patient room - the dwarf learned swimming fast. When he got hungry, I opened the door to the drainage room ... and his friends came to feed and water him.

I originally used the door to access him, but it was so close to the rest of the fort that he took off a couple of times. He made it far enough before collapsing that the dwarves pulled him to another bed. It was a real hassle, the hardest part of all to get them to carry him to the proper friggin room. I had forbid a whole bunch of beds and tell them that THIS! THIS IS HIS ROOM! to get them to carry him there.

That is the initial construction. After a while he could swim and I could flood his ass with 7/7 water. so now the floodgate between the reservoir and the patient room was open at all times and the river attacked him and threw him around. Builds toughness purdy good!

I'll tell you a plan I have for a better construction in a moment ...
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Aspgren

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Re: Ouch ... you ok buddy?
« Reply #63 on: November 07, 2009, 08:40:47 am »

I am double posting due to the different construction and all the text I predict it will take.

The new water-treatment-system is much more user friendly. It is however untested and not guaranteed to work.

The key here is quite simply: Pumps and nurses. While that sounds incredibly sexy, it is not what you think ... I am going to describe the construction for you and then add a question mark or two.

The idea is that you shouldn't have to micro-manage this stuff. So the dwarves have to be self reliant. It also assumes that the dwarf knows how to swim, since he will be submerged in water.
There are a series of rooms that need to go into this:

 First the water supply. Ideally it should be fresh water, taken from a river and running -benath- the room and continuing on into a chasm or whatever. The reason is simple, the nurse is going to drink from this water and it cannot go stale. To risk evaporation and to manually have to refill it through buckets is a no-go. To build this room -above- a river could work too, as the water can easily flow back into it.
 Second the power supply. The construction should be close to the surface, partially because of the easy access to water, and because of the windmill. I am not experienced with any power BUT windmill and manual power, so this is the only design I can make. The windmill should power the pumps at all times, it needs to be 100% automatic.

 Third the pumps and the patient room. The pumps should be located in a relatively large room, where the patient room is actually just a canal going through the middle. It's pretty straight-forward but a couple of things need to be considered: The entry pump should flow the water in a tunnel before going into the canal, there should be walls to prevent splatter, mudforming and "dangerous terrain" cancellations on the sides of the canal beginning. There should also be a well for the nurse to drink from. The idea is that the exit pump should be located directly above the nursing bed. So the patient gets flooded while in bed but the water pump takes it away, so the nurse can stand right next to him and feed him without being in water ("dangerous terrain") herself.
 NOTICE I am unsure if a dwarf is willing to put a patient in a bed that's being flooded, so if the dwarf is washed out of bed - he might stay out of bed. For this reason an emergency lever connected to the gear assembly under the windmill has to be made, as well as drainage grate located in the canal right after the patient bed. With this construction, you can easily turn the whole system off and put the dwarf back in bed.

 Fourth the nurse's office. It's not easy being a nurse, the dwarf who takes this job must enjoy helping others to prevent negative thoughts from forming when performing her duties. She will be completely isolated from the fort, to keep her happy she should have an office and a dining room - and something she likes. (wonderful creature in a cage, perhaps) This is perhaps unneccessary if she has no friends, but if she has friends - and orcs bust their nuts - she's going to need comfort. Also note that the nurse's office should have a separate bedroom with a door connected to it - this is to prevent the wounded dwarf from wandering in there, if he ever gets blasted out of bed. You might need to put a door in the canal too, if he is a repeat offender. This, sadly, means micro managing alot.
 Fifth the farm and food stockpile. Another reason to build the construction close to the surface, with natural earth you don't need to artificially irrigate the stone floor to farm, you can do it right off the bat. For this reason the nurse should be a planter and the farm should be huge - don't be afraid to make multiple farms so she can keep busy planting multiple seeds, it'll only keep her happy. Though I don't think she will actually harvest them unless there is a stockpile nearby. The stockpile should obviously be allowed to hold seeds as well. There needs to be a channel in the roof, in which your other dwarves can throw down extra seeds if she needs them. And booze if you're feeling generous. Again, this is cause for micromanagement but the construction should be able to be virtually self-sustainable.

 NOTICE 2 It is best to place the drainage grate after the door, so that if the dwarf is blown out of bed - he hits a locked door. Instead of land on the grate where he won't be sufficiently submerged in water.
 NOTICE 3 I haven't tried out the pumps, so the most important question is this. WILL the dwarf really be submerged when he is in front of the pump? Or does the water disappear so quickly that it doesn't count? If so, can the nurse stand in front of the pump without getting the "dangerous terrain" ? If not, maybe one has to double a pump AND floor grate, if that works. and the nurse wants to use the space, maybe one has to find some way of lessening the water strength to keep the patient from being thrown out of bed all the time ... since he can't be in front of the pump anymore he has to be in the canal where the waterlevel is high and the flow is strong.

Edit: the reason that the nurse is to be separated from the fort is because the whole room should be locked. patients have a nasty tendency to get out of bed and run to the other end of the fort to sleep in some barracks
« Last Edit: November 07, 2009, 08:47:33 am by Aspgren »
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Albedo

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Re: Ouch ... you ok buddy?
« Reply #64 on: November 07, 2009, 12:59:18 pm »

It is however untested and not guaranteed to work.

Hrmmm....

Quote
patients have a nasty tendency to get out of bed and run to the other end of the fort to sleep in some barracks

That's because (I believe) they are drowning.  This wakes them up.

My design is 4/7 depth, which is less than drowning but still swimming - it's the "user friendly" depth.  A dwarf can still rest in bed and learn to swim - it's better than magic, it's science!

The challenge is to avoid a "wave" of 5/7 water flowing out from a floodgate/door, which will trigger the "OHARMOKHELPMEI'MDROWNING!" reaction which sends them out of bed and running.  So, it requires the water to come up thru grates - which do double duty as drains.

The tricky part is to duplicate your tactic here, create a pre-measuring system that only requires a lever to be thrown and a pre-filled reservoir to administer the precise amount of water into the system.  Not hard, just tricky.

(The really hard part is the aquifer, which creates a challenge for both draining and the channel system, but that's a problem outside the basic concept, and a diff discussion.)

I'll let you know once it is tested and (dis)proved.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2009, 04:07:24 am by Albedo »
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RedKing

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Re: Ouch ... you ok buddy?
« Reply #65 on: November 14, 2009, 09:29:10 pm »

I'm envisioning an entirely different application for this: training the 1st Dwarven Marine Expeditionary Force. I'm envisioning a barracks that doubles as an immersion chamber, so I can alternate squads between sparring and swimming. End-result hopefully being uber-dorfs with Legendary Swimming. 
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Dvergar

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Re: Ouch ... you ok buddy?
« Reply #66 on: November 15, 2009, 08:40:37 pm »

Hm... can dwarves sleep in any amount of water?  Given all the essentials are provided, plus maybe a zoo or statue garden, I would make an entire working floor of my fortress a swimming pool.
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Albedo

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Re: Ouch ... you ok buddy?
« Reply #67 on: November 16, 2009, 04:06:54 am »

...4/7 depth, which is less than drowning but still swimming - it's the "user friendly" depth.  A dwarf can still rest in bed and learn to swim...

The challenge is to avoid a "wave" of 5/7 water flowing out from a floodgate/door, which will trigger the "OHARMOKHELPMEI'MDROWNING!" reaction which sends them out of bed and running...
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Dvergar

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Re: Ouch ... you ok buddy?
« Reply #68 on: November 16, 2009, 07:22:07 pm »

Danke
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Shrike

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Re: Ouch ... you ok buddy?
« Reply #69 on: November 16, 2009, 07:53:59 pm »

I found this out a while back, when I was trying to prevent dwarves who had contacted magma with Temps off from spontaneous combustion when I turned temperature back on.

It worked. They managed to give up smoking, which was especially problematic in public places.

The pair had red wounds for their feet, but were able to recover. I didn't make them swim, controlling the waterlevel with a hatch and water from a door-gated murky pool.

So there's that, as well. It looks like the only chronic problems that water can't cure are nausea and cave spider bites.
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Grendus

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Re: Ouch ... you ok buddy?
« Reply #70 on: November 17, 2009, 10:46:48 am »

I found this out a while back, when I was trying to prevent dwarves who had contacted magma with Temps off from spontaneous combustion when I turned temperature back on.

It worked. They managed to give up smoking, which was especially problematic in public places.

The pair had red wounds for their feet, but were able to recover. I didn't make them swim, controlling the waterlevel with a hatch and water from a door-gated murky pool.

So there's that, as well. It looks like the only chronic problems that water can't cure are nausea and cave spider bites.

Which, coincidentally enough, can be cured by magma.
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darkflagrance

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Re: Ouch ... you ok buddy?
« Reply #71 on: November 17, 2009, 11:41:03 am »

It is however untested and not guaranteed to work.

Hrmmm....

Quote
patients have a nasty tendency to get out of bed and run to the other end of the fort to sleep in some barracks

That's because (I believe) they are drowning.  This wakes them up.

My design is 4/7 depth, which is less than drowning but still swimming - it's the "user friendly" depth.  A dwarf can still rest in bed and learn to swim - it's better than magic, it's science!

The challenge is to avoid a "wave" of 5/7 water flowing out from a floodgate/door, which will trigger the "OHARMOKHELPMEI'MDROWNING!" reaction which sends them out of bed and running.  So, it requires the water to come up thru grates - which do double duty as drains.

Regarding the water, would it work to have some 3/7 but mostly 4/7 water tiles sloshing around? The rate of skill gain would not be as high, but you would have better insurance against deep waves of 5/7 water.

Hm... can dwarves sleep in any amount of water?  Given all the essentials are provided, plus maybe a zoo or statue garden, I would make an entire working floor of my fortress a swimming pool.

Or just make an entire fortress on this principle, with very few z-levels and hatches on stairs to prevent drainage, pressure plates to reset water levels, a pump tower going to every floor, tower caps sprouting everywhere...

I give you Toad Fortress.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2009, 11:44:29 am by darkflagrance »
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Shrike

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Re: Ouch ... you ok buddy?
« Reply #72 on: November 18, 2009, 04:56:40 pm »

I found this out a while back, when I was trying to prevent dwarves who had contacted magma with Temps off from spontaneous combustion when I turned temperature back on.

It worked. They managed to give up smoking, which was especially problematic in public places.

The pair had red wounds for their feet, but were able to recover. I didn't make them swim, controlling the waterlevel with a hatch and water from a door-gated murky pool.

So there's that, as well. It looks like the only chronic problems that water can't cure are nausea and cave spider bites.

Which, coincidentally enough, can be cured by magma.

That was a masterful reply. It menaces with spikes of irony.
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Hamster Man

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Re: Ouch ... you ok buddy?
« Reply #73 on: November 19, 2009, 01:43:54 pm »

So there's that, as well. It looks like the only chronic problems that water can't cure are nausea and cave spider bites.
Which, coincidentally enough, can be cured by magma.

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So there's that, as well. It looks like the only chronic problems that water can't cure are nausea and cave spider bites.
Which, coincidentally enough, can be cured by magma.

Aklyon

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Re: Ouch ... you ok buddy?
« Reply #74 on: January 13, 2010, 07:40:46 pm »

Someone must build Toad Fortress!
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