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Vote Count
------------------------
Pandarsenic - IronyOwl,
Org - ToonyMan,
Lonewolf I -
Jokerman-EXE -
Zathras -
Ottofar - Vector, Zai, TheBroodyMoods,
TheBroodyMoods -
Mysteriousbluepuppet -
Vector - Eduren,
IronyOwl - Pandarsenic, Lonewolf I,
Eduren - Jokerman-EXE, Org, Ottofar,
ToonyMan - Mysteriousbluepuppet,
Zai -

Not Voting - Zathras,

Day Ends on Wednesday at 9 PM Central. 7 to Hammer.

Hopefully, this is right.

[IronyOwl]

Hmmm. I've never tried asking an enormous stream of asinine or obvious questions until someone lost patience. Fascinating strategy.

If everything I've asked or pointed out has been obvious or asinine, I feel I can confidently say that you're scum. You did a late bus on your partner, then attempted to use it as a shield against any further questioning. When that didn't work, you tried using it as a bludgeon to paint your attacker as scum- after all, only town would vote scum and only scum would attack town! When THAT didn't work, you kept calling me scum and claimed I was feigning aggression, in the hopes of getting me to back off, be suspected myself, or both.

When that didn't work you feigned ignorance and tried to BS your way out of having to answer anything. Game's up, scum.


Also Zai, if it makes you feel any better I noticed it and assumed it was indeed intentional. Just didn't comment on it.

[Pandarsenic]

Spoiler: Ignored Questions (click to show/hide)

Wait what? When did you do either? You've repeatedly pointed to your vote on Spartan and repeatedly ignored questions. When did you out me as scum or point out my scumminess, beyond my pressuring you and not voting Spartan?  Been there done that you know what if other people can tell me to go read stuff for the first time I can tell other people to go read my stuff a second time

Are you trying to say, after voting him for vote-hopping, that scum would have simply vote-hopped off without consequence, and hence any previous behavior of yours is beyond reproach? Not like it can't be done. It took until pretty recently for someone to point out that that appears to be precisely what Ottofar did.

So you feel that you are both too lazy to read the thread and also just so damn good that I'm trying to point out the former to disable the latter? It's not my fault I'm right. It just kinda happens.

Except, that's not relevant to when you did it, unless you're trying to say that you voted scum and are therefore confirmed and unquestionable town. That seems to be the general argument you've been making earlier, so why are you saying that? Why can't you explain yourself on your own merits, without pointing to the end result and saying it's therefore irrelevant?

Hey, wait, THIS WAS YOU

Yes, it was. Are you going somewhere with this? Why'd you include your question but not my response?
Because the "I am willing to lynch someone whom I don't believe is scum" sentiment is what matters. That he was, in fact, scum, means that this lets you say you were fine with lynching him if he gets killed and flips scum while still not committing against him.

As far as accusations not explicitly stated as questions:

Spoiler: Unanswered Suspicions Not In The Form Of A Question (click to show/hide)

You are scum. Give up. You're desperately throwing some sort of bitchfit attacking everyone to try to get suspicion off of you.

I'm throwing the bitchfit in a desperate attempt to get suspicion off? You've done nothing but scream and moan about how you helped lynch Spartan and I'm attacking you, therefore you're town and I'm not.


In other words, one is intuition, one is guessing wrong before the fact, and three of your five reasons are because I'm attacking you. HMMMMM.
Just plain wrong. You can read, I'm sure, I'm not going to explain this to you.


You fought me over the votecount and who "found" Spartan, but otherwise you've had no interest whatsoever in explaining yourself beyond attacking your attacker.
Oh, PUHLEASE. You're not lecturing me on when a vote is or is not an OMGUS and when an OMGUS is or is not a scumtell. Don't even try. I went there and back before you even came to this subforum and [CENSORED because somebody would've reported it for being too graphic]. Don't try to pull that on me.

Plus, you know, the question of why you ignored all this until now.
'Cause with this low of a content-to-words ratio, I have to be damn bored before I slog through this mess of bullshit.

Which, coincidentally, I now am, because everyone else is playing the games this netbook can't run. <_<;

[Vector]

scumlist

Forgot about Jokerman, did you?  Was he lurking too much, or did you automatically pass over him because he's actually your partner?

[IronyOwl]

Oh, well now that I've called you out on it you'll bother to respond. Or read it in the first place? I'm not sure why you keep mentioning that you don't read the thread like it's a good thing, but I'd have to guess it's a nice excuse to not know what's going on and look cool doing it.

Of course, if you think I'm talking a lot without saying much, feel free to show me how it's done. Just take what I've written and shear the excess garbage off without losing meaning, and voila! You've shown I'm a pompous ass. You're not going to do that, are you?

Oh, and speaking of low content-to-words ratios, you've responded to eight questions with a blatantly false "could happen", one FUCKYEAHIMSOAWESOME, two "go read I'm not explaining it"s, two pictures of strawmen, and two bad reasons you should have provided when you made the statements to begin with. Truly, you've gone out of your way to explain your actions in detail, what with half being refusals to answer and at least a quarter being giving me the finger.

But oh, it seems I'm not Pandarsenic and so don't like to sling bullshit without backing it up. So, let's start with his "could happen."

Are you trying to say, after voting him for vote-hopping, that scum would have simply vote-hopped off without consequence, and hence any previous behavior of yours is beyond reproach? Not like it can't be done. It took until pretty recently for someone to point out that that appears to be precisely what Ottofar did.

*BZZZZZZZT!* I'm sorry, the correct answer is the very next post after his pointed that out!

Spoiler: ohsnap (click to show/hide)

Oh dear. Eight pages in which I haven't posted. On monday nothing interesting had happened to post about, and on tuesday, I got home late, and posted a quick thing, but the electricity went down, taking the internet with it. I'll do a longer post tomorrow, assuming I have time.

Unvote

Vote Eduren, you were defending Vector, and I'd like to see your alignment. Or Vector's.

Uh, doodabuddy.  You pop out for out pages and you pop in with a vote that says nothing less than "you were defending someone!  I keel you." ?  Seriously?  No questions, no real allegations, no evidence?  No commentary on the other players, just another vote dropped with no extra analysis?

This is sloppy scumhunting at the best, and scummy at the worst.  Shape up or hang, scumbucket.

Once again, he either can't read or is an outright liar.

Moving on, let's see about that quote he put up as though it meant something, then ignored for several pages.

Hey, wait, THIS WAS YOU

Yes, it was. Are you going somewhere with this? Why'd you include your question but not my response?
Because the "I am willing to lynch someone whom I don't believe is scum" sentiment is what matters. That he was, in fact, scum, means that this lets you say you were fine with lynching him if he gets killed and flips scum while still not committing against him.

What's that? ACTUAL EXPLANATION OF WHY I'M SUSPICIOUS? Egads, it's a miracle! He actually explained why I'm scum for once!

Unfortunately, it's a really bad reason. For one, I already explained why I felt that way. Unless he can explain why that explanation was no good, the best he can really do here is say I'm still shifty.

More importantly, however, it wasn't necessary in the slightest. We started with what, 15 people? Four voted for Spartan, which means a full ten weren't voting for him. If I was desperate for some town cred, why have I never brought it up, and why didn't I vote for him when it became obvious he wasn't going to make it? If I wasn't, why bother? What's to gain here by quasi-bussing him?


So next up, Pandarsenic finally explains why he's had no defense other than to call me scum:

You fought me over the votecount and who "found" Spartan, but otherwise you've had no interest whatsoever in explaining yourself beyond attacking your attacker.
Oh, PUHLEASE. You're not lecturing me on when a vote is or is not an OMGUS and when an OMGUS is or is not a scumtell. Don't even try. I went there and back before you even came to this subforum and [CENSORED because somebody would've reported it for being too graphic]. Don't try to pull that on me.

I love this one. He goes into an obscenity-laden I-was-doin-this-before-you-was-born-kid rant about OMGUSing, in response to my reference to "attacking the attacker." What does "attacking" mean? Well, for a townie, I don't know, asking questions, explaining why someone's scum, pointing out holes in someone's arguments?

For scum? Obviously, I'm talking about votes, since that's what scum's really scared of, isn't it?



So please, if anyone has any further doubts about this scumbucket's alignment, do point them out for me. Otherwise I'd like to get down to business.

[Pandarsenic]

THESE POSTS ARE NOW ON MEDICATION

IronyOwl, you're scum and I'm going to have your head on a platterrrrrrrrrrrrr~~~

[Ottofar]

Oh, Jokerman, Right.

He's been quite invisible too, not sure if town or not.

[Zathras]

Apologies for light posting, real life has been intruding. A few questions:

Eduren:

For now, I'm wondering who Vector finds suspicious. You seem to have voted Ottofar at the beginning of the day to get him to talk, but I wonder if you are buying into his excuses. If you don't, then why aren't you ripping him a new one?

I find your vote for Vector suspicious (and specious). Is this a day 2 random vote, or do you have any meat behind it? Has it anything to do with your perceived defense/buddying yesterday, so now is the time to distance?

Vector: about the above, would you find it suspicious if you weren't the target? (say if he had defended/buddied Zai yesterday, and today voted him with no reasoning behind it?) If so, would you be grilling him for it?

I am still suspicious of a Vector/Eduren scum pair.


Toonyman:

I'm pretty sure Panda is town as well.

Would you mind explaining your reasoning for this?


Pandarsenic:

IronyOwl, my Wintuition said Spartan was scum and was right; it also says you are scum, and I expect it's right here as well.
The part where I'm picking up reasons for your scuminess after catching you is normal for me. You are scum. Give up. You're desperately throwing some sort of bitchfit attacking everyone to try to get suspicion off of you. Stop it. There's a difference between "IronyOwl is being aggressive" and "IronyOwl is trying to look like he's being aggressive" and wintuition says you're falling on the wrong side of the PARABOLA OF RAGE this game.

No. You are the one giving nothing but intangibles, gut feels, rage and insults as replies. This may be your superinvincibleuberpandastyle, but it sucks, it gives no information, and it's scummy. Please answer this: other than IronyOwl, who is most suspicious to you now and why? What is your opinion on the possible scumminess of Eduren, Ottofar & Lonewolf?


Lonewolf:

Irony Owl and Pandarsenic - Are you fighting over niggling discrepancies in vote counts and ordering because half-remembered impressions were wrong or because they were wrong in such a way that your opponent is forwarding a scum agenda?

Your question was answered (after a fashion) several posts ago. Have you seen anything new in the exchange to give you a better perspective? Do you think at this point that IronyOwl, or Pandarsenic is being scummier? Other that these two, who should be scrutinized in your opinion?


Ottofar.
This guy is utterly scummy, for reasons endlessly expounded in the pages before (small summary below so I'm not accused of voting without support). In addition, since he has voted for Eduren, his roleflip will provide useful data to some other suspicions referred in this post.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

On Ottofar:
- Extensive analysis by Zai
- Useless excuse and dumb vote
- Early vote hopping
- PPE: recent useless lists and useless additions.

[Pandarsenic]

Zai has me sold on Ottofar with this:

Once again, no explanation of unvote, just voting for somebody because he defended somebody else. This also has the handy effect of getting his vote off of scum Spartan.

So once we lynch IronyOwl, we can tag Ottofar, sure.

[Vector]

Vector: about the above, would you find it suspicious if you weren't the target? (say if he had defended/buddied Zai yesterday, and today voted him with no reasoning behind it?) If so, would you be grilling him for it?

This is a hard one to pull apart.  Clearly, I'm not grilling him for it; this alone, particularly from eduren, wouldn't be enough to trip my alarms.  As a townie, I know that he's not performing the usual "save the scumbuddy and then quick!  Distance yourself!" routine.  I also know this because I'd never let a member of my scumteam pull that sort of shit--I like being self-sufficient.

I think he's trying to distance himself from me, yeah, but I haven't seen any other scumtells that are telling me I need to grill him.  He defended me like a townie (erm... weird thing to say there, but scum and town do it differently.  At the least, it's not screaming scum), and then he asked me some basic questions.  It didn't feel like a particularly aggressive vote.  It felt like a tag from someone who was looking for leads.

The other thing is that this is just eduren's style, to the best of my knowledge.  He occasionally defrays particularly dire altercations and tends to ask particularly incisive questions.  In this case, they happened to come right after each other.  He's not playing his scum game, and he's definitely not playing his survivor game.

So, to sum it up:

At this point in the game, I don't think I'd be particularly worried about Eduren's behavior (no matter the target, save some esoteric situations I'll cut out here for purpose of generality).  Later in the game, I might ask about it, but right now I'm trying to figure out what Ottofar's problem is.  Eduren just hasn't built up enough scumtells for me to worry about him much.

[Vector]

Sidenote: gone for all of tomorrow (probably won't even turn the computer on).  I have some timeframe-critical annotations I have to finish, as well as laying up some more preserves.  Sorry, dudes.

[ToonyMan]

Pandarsenic is town because IronyOwl decided with his team mates (or possibly not with team mates) last night/today to target him with a lot a lot of words which is something I did as scum to cause a large distraction before.

[ToonyMan]

Unvote.  Switching my vote to IronyOwl as well.

[Ottofar]

Once again, no explanation of unvote, just voting for somebody because he defended somebody else. This also has the handy effect of getting his vote off of scum Spartan.

...You forget, that this happened in my first post following TBM's

Ottofar- Scummy too, he votes org, catches a little flak for it and than spartan votes Org and draws aggro from just about the entire thread. He jumps onto the Spartan bandwagon as if nothing ever happened and he was not suspicious in the least, saying that "Org has been making sense the entire game". He has been lurking ever since he landed his vote on an easy lynch.

Zathras, I'm always like this. I'm town this time around, but, I admit, I look more scummy here, than in BM XIII, where I was scum.

But yeah, I should be killed before LyLo anyways.

[Ottofar]

...which I noticed later.