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Author Topic: American Election Megathread - It's Over  (Read 717434 times)

Jervill

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3945 on: July 05, 2012, 12:20:18 pm »

Yeah, I'm going to have to say Walsh is full of shit there. Especially given he's from the party that wraps itself in the goddamned flag every chance it gets.

Sounds about on par with Saxby Chambliss, the Republican (with no military service) who unseated triple-amputee Vietnam vet Max Cleland from his Senate seat in 2002. All while Republican pundits and Chambliss's own ads questioned Cleland's patriotism and mocked his injuries (with many folks on Internet forums questioning the account of Cleland's injuries and claiming it was because he was clumsy and dropped a grenade, and therefore not worthy of respect).

When Chambliss won, it made me physically ill.  >:(
If Walsh wins, I may have to barf into a bag and mail it to him as a congratulatory gift.

It's highly unlikely Walsh will win, Illinois Democrats controlled  the trifecta there, and drew a very efficient gerrymander which targeted Walsh and a few other Republicans.
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mainiac

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3946 on: July 05, 2012, 02:21:07 pm »

Lot of difference between then and now. Back then, being a veep pick was a great way to get your name recognized at the national level. But with the 24-hour news cycle you have people like Michelle Bachmann, who by all rights should be mostly unknown outside of her district, becoming a national figure. And once you're known, people expect you to do things. If all you're known for is being "that other guy/gal who lost", it doesn't translate into strong support in the next electoral cycle.

I disagree with that pretty strongly.  John McCain made Sarah Palin into a national figure overnight.  The reason she disappeared from the scene is that she had no desire to put in the workload that being a national politician requires.  To be a national politician you also need competent people and she was never even tried to get them.  There was still endless speculation about whether she would jump into the race, long past the point that any other personality would have been forgotten about.  Never before has such a sweet hand been dealt to someone who doesn't know how to play the game or care to learn.
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lemon10

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3947 on: July 05, 2012, 03:14:34 pm »

Lot of difference between then and now. Back then, being a veep pick was a great way to get your name recognized at the national level. But with the 24-hour news cycle you have people like Michelle Bachmann, who by all rights should be mostly unknown outside of her district, becoming a national figure. And once you're known, people expect you to do things. If all you're known for is being "that other guy/gal who lost", it doesn't translate into strong support in the next electoral cycle.

I disagree with that pretty strongly.  John McCain made Sarah Palin into a national figure overnight.  The reason she disappeared from the scene is that she had no desire to put in the workload that being a national politician requires.  To be a national politician you also need competent people and she was never even tried to get them.  There was still endless speculation about whether she would jump into the race, long past the point that any other personality would have been forgotten about.  Never before has such a sweet hand been dealt to someone who doesn't know how to play the game or care to learn.
She had a great position among the republican party. But she would have lost (just as surely as Santorum would have lost in the general election), while she appeals extremely well to republicans (and could have probably won a senate seat if she had the inclination) she would have had a very good chance in the primary, but would have gotten curb-stomped in the main election against Obama. But you are right, her real problem is that she simply prefers making millions of dollars a year in a easy job to running for president and probably losing.


I can see why military service could be seen as a good quality to have for any leader: Because it shows that they are willing to do whatever is necessary for their country, even if it means they might die.
However, I look at it as being stupid enough (since joining the military is almost never a wise decision for your future (eg. increased suicide, chance of death, large chance of sexual assault if female, ect, ect)) to put your self in danger for the sake of preserving the status quo and helping defacto American Imperialism (assuming your American of course, it is different depending on which country you live in, and the reason you fought).
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Bauglir

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3948 on: July 05, 2012, 03:26:06 pm »

Depends on what she's talking about. If she's talking about her commitment to the nation, talking about military service is perfectly valid - and talking about her wounds is an excellent subject, if she's approaching it from a perspective of "I don't regret having suffered this in defense of our nation". I mean, I don't really agree with all the ideals of the military or the patriotism that's often called upon to support it, but I have to admit that "I'm willing to lose a few limbs for you guys" is a pretty good emotional position for a race. It'd easily be a tie-breaker between her and another politician, if all else was equal - there are a lot more important things than emotional attachment to the nation, but it's not a bad thing, in my opinion.
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RedKing

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3949 on: July 05, 2012, 03:50:16 pm »

There's also a strong undertone that a politician who has won the uniform (and a hundred times moreso one who has been heavily wounded in the course of war) is going to be far more circumspect about voting to authorize military action. Because they know the cost of war far more intimately than a civilian ever will.

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3950 on: July 05, 2012, 05:34:13 pm »

Peace has no greater friend than the soldier who has tasted of war.

Where have I heard that quote before?

jester

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3951 on: July 05, 2012, 07:43:47 pm »

Peace has no greater friend than the soldier who has tasted of war.

Where have I heard that quote before?

Dunno, but id have to say there are some fairly glaring exceptions to the rule (McCain:  BOMBOMB BOMBBOMB IRAN!)

I always thought any soldier who was serious about peace would have just put their arms down and said no more.  Id also agree that having taken serious wounds in the service to your country definately doesnt automatically make you a hero or more intouch with service or the common good.  Not to suggest thats what has happened in this case, but the wounded vet may have joined and been injured and injured others through nothing more than plain old stupidity. 
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MaximumZero

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3952 on: July 05, 2012, 07:51:56 pm »

McCain, to me at least, is more like the Joker than a real soldier.

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darkrider2

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3953 on: July 05, 2012, 08:36:37 pm »

Quote
I always thought any soldier who was serious about peace would have just put their arms down and said no more.

Is it even possible to quit the military when serving? I've never heard of it.
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Sirus

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3954 on: July 05, 2012, 08:38:53 pm »

Quote
I always thought any soldier who was serious about peace would have just put their arms down and said no more.

Is it even possible to quit the military when serving? I've never heard of it.
You'd probably get dishonorably discharged, but I'm not sure.
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Karlito

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3955 on: July 05, 2012, 08:43:58 pm »

Court-martialed for some kind of insubordination is probably more likely. I wonder when the army stopped shooting people for cowardice.
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darkrider2

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3956 on: July 05, 2012, 08:46:34 pm »

Court-martialed for some kind of insubordination is probably more likely. I wonder when the army stopped shooting people for cowardice.

Hmm, no idea. Did the geneva convention cover that?
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Sirus

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3957 on: July 05, 2012, 09:05:08 pm »

Court-martialed for some kind of insubordination is probably more likely. I wonder when the army stopped shooting people for cowardice.
According to this, death can indeed be the maximum punishment for cowardice. However, I'm not sure how many cowards are actually executed nowadays; something tells me there'd be a s**t-storm if it happened.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3958 on: July 05, 2012, 09:47:31 pm »

The military hasn't executed anyone in a few decades, if memory serves. I think one was authorized a few months ago for a murderer-rapist, but I don't think it has been carried out yet.
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Sirus

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Re: American Election Megathread
« Reply #3959 on: July 05, 2012, 09:49:05 pm »

The military hasn't executed anyone in a few decades, if memory serves. I think one was authorized a few months ago, but I don't think it has been carried out yet.
Wasn't that for the dude who murdered/executed a bunch of citizens? I have a hard time thinking that he doesn't deserve it...
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