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Author Topic: ___/The Writer's Apprenticeship\___  (Read 300618 times)

bahihs

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Re: ___/The Writer's Apprenticeship\___
« Reply #1350 on: April 11, 2015, 09:52:25 am »

Spoiler: My edits to the story (click to show/hide)

Hmm. So mostly you're edits look pretty good, but a few puzzle me. In particular, many of them seem like they're designed to make the writing sound more generic, and less characterised? I went ahead and selected the relevant sections in red. Is this a thing people are advised to do when writing? Because I was actually going in rather the opposite direction with this snippet, and trying to exaggerate that kind of thing.

That is on purpose, the idea is to get to a generic base and then discuss with the writer where he wants to take it. Some of those I was hesitant on (especially "warbling") but others I removed because I could (rule #3). Generally adverbs should be avoided and replaced with a unique metaphor or specific verb. Its important to be overactive on this point so that the bad habit is never developed and adverbs/adjectives are used only when necessary. That said, "screech like a (so-and-so)" would be better (and more descriptive) than "(adverb) screech".

Other things you've highlighted, I felt did not fall into the above. For instance "...really embarrassing" contains a qualifier ("really") which is bad. Instead if you must emphasize how terrible the embarrassment would be, use a metaphor (a unique one!) or just use a stronger verb, like "mortifying" (this is the place to bust out those specific words). The "really" doesn't add much to meaning of the sentence here, its a thing you say to fill up space.

In other places I've removed what I call "Addison constructions", these are phrases which are indecisive and hesitant (Addison, because "He who hesitates is lost"). So things like "It was looking like" or "no less than" are vacillating constructions that are not very strong. They should be used for subtle things like sarcasm, not for statements of fact.

I also tried to eliminate redundancy in meaning, e.g "could probably" was replaced with "might", but deleting "probably" would have also worked ("probably" is one of the qualifiers described above). Finally, the last mark is given to avoid the habit of using anything other than "said", "asked", or "replied" after the dialog. This is to force you to empower and characterize the dialog rather than tack on an adjective. If she really growled, add a little "Grr", if that doesn't fit (it doesn't) then you can use a statement of fact or a metaphor to indicate her mood (facial expression, body language, etc.). Ideally, emotion should be displayed by dialog (in practice, this is difficult to do), if that's not possible, use statements of fact. But make sure to sever the statement from the end of the dialog no "said painfully" or "asked ruefully" etc.

One more word about dialog (which I think you did very well in this piece), dialog is the place to break all the rules. People speak in less-than-economical ways so its fine to use qualifiers, adjectives, adverbs etc. etc. to characterize the spoken words.

If anything is unclear, please tell me and I'll try to clear it up. Also, if there is a place where I have misinterpreted the meaning, tell me that also and we can work on it together.
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bahihs

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Re: ___/The Writer's Apprenticeship\___
« Reply #1351 on: April 14, 2015, 10:59:47 pm »

Nvm
« Last Edit: June 19, 2015, 10:16:35 pm by bahihs »
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hops

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Re: ___/The Writer's Apprenticeship\___
« Reply #1352 on: April 16, 2015, 02:25:57 am »

Writing Prompts Contest Result

Sorry for taking so long. I need someone to help me with the submission. Like, seriously. I'm not good at commenting on things. Unless somebody is helping me I have to say this will have to be the last time I run the contest.

Spoiler: Prompt 1, FINISHED! (click to show/hide)

I find the introduction a bit meandering and the shift in timeframe was a bit jarring, with the discussion between the Porters being detailed and the rest of Hansel's life being skimmed over really fast. At times the worldbuilding is just a bit distracting and kind of pointless. The little asides are interesting, but most of the time they just don't seem to serve any point apart from padding.

I appreciate the humor, but especially at my current state I found it a bit tedious to read through, and I think the problem is mostly from the pacing and the lack of any compelling buildup.

Prompt 1



I think your idea of a Karma here is a bit jumbled up, or maybe I'm just not perceptive enough to pick out the underlying theme. It feels like the monster's decision between the two options would have been stronger if it made its choice by itself and not without Karma's guidance. Something like a moral quandary between going to a better place or making the people suffer.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

This was intended to be a bit of an experiment in writing in the style of the Bantu oral tradition. It, uh, didn't exactly play out like that.

I'm not sure whether I like it; I'd really appreciate any criticism anyone feels like throwing at it.

Also I guess it's kind of for Prompt One.

I... kind of lost track what was happening. Sorry. I liked the sound in the first bit though. I just felt like things would be a bit more understandable if there was more of a logic underlying it. Like, even in folk tales, there's some kind logic to it, no matter how whimsical. I kind of got confused already by the end of the second paragraph because random things were happening.

Spoiler: Ripple (click to show/hide)

Yeah, I don't know what I'm writing. Just really wanted to write poetry for some reason. It's about a guy who got mad at his boss and got fired, his life sucked, but he turned it around, blah blah. It's really cliche and everything. I don't know if you can write poetry for the prompt, but if you can, then this is my entry. If you can't, well, then it isn't and it's just for fun.

I feel really brain-dead. It took me more than an hour just to write that.

I'm not good at commenting on poetry, sorry. It was inspiring though.

Result

1. bahihs
2. Cheesecake
3. GiglameshDespair
4. Arx
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bahihs

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Re: ___/The Writer's Apprenticeship\___
« Reply #1353 on: April 16, 2015, 10:52:40 am »

That's unfortunate Cinder, if you like I can take over for you. Of course, if I do, the judgement will be much more focused on writing rather than the story and will probably have a soft word limit (for my own sanity).

I'm a little confused at how I came in first despite your abject dislike of the work (I'm not complaining mind you ;)). If you could include some things I did correctly it would help me figure out my strengths and weaknesses. This was mostly an experiment in satire (I've never written any comedy before) so I'm wondering what you mean by "I appreciate the humor, but especially at my current state I found it a bit tedious". So it wasn't funny? Or in bad taste? Or...?

But anyway, I'd like to take on managing the contest (or start my own).
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zubb2

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Re: ___/The Writer's Apprenticeship\___
« Reply #1354 on: April 16, 2015, 05:51:11 pm »

Hey people, I'm not doing anything for a contest, but I do have a bit of writing I've been thinking about for a while.
I too wish to be critiqued. Anybody know any sites where the main thingy is writing projects, like deviant art but writing.

Here's the short story. All the tags in there are mainly to help me remember what I was doing, I might get rid of them later.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


EDIT: I am bad with names so I just use ones I've used over and over in many different things. It's not supposed to be me.
EDIT: For grammar.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2015, 06:28:56 pm by zubb2 »
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GiglameshDespair

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Re: ___/The Writer's Apprenticeship\___
« Reply #1355 on: April 16, 2015, 05:58:58 pm »

Hey people, I'm not doing anything for a contest, but I do have a bit of writing I've been thinking about for a while.
I too wish to be critiqued. Anybody know any sites where the main thingy is writing projects, like deviant art but writing.

Here's the short story. All the tags in there are mainly to help me remember what I was doing, I might get rid of them later.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


EDIT: I am bad with names so I just use ones I've used over and over in many different things. It's not supposed to be me.

Check your spelling and grammar. There's a lot of mistakes.
Storys should be stories. Burried should be buried.
So on and so forth.
Fix that first.
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zubb2

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Re: ___/The Writer's Apprenticeship\___
« Reply #1356 on: April 16, 2015, 06:27:13 pm »

Wow I cannot spell "maybe" and various other words.
I think I got most of them.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2015, 06:29:20 pm by zubb2 »
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(Anyone else have any stories that can compare to a man being beaten to death with his own trousers by a giant gopher?)
(when goblins showed up, I mumbled "Smithers! Release the hounds!" and had the lever pulled.)

hops

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Re: ___/The Writer's Apprenticeship\___
« Reply #1357 on: April 16, 2015, 06:48:07 pm »

I'd be nice if we can go on Google or whatever and discuss each submissions with each other. Normally I do that with Tiruin but she's usually too busy nowadays. I'm very indecisive when I do them by myself.
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Re: ___/The Writer's Apprenticeship\___
« Reply #1358 on: April 16, 2015, 06:48:44 pm »

@Bahihs, since i'm not a very frequent poster I don't want to say much, but I would like to say that if you really want to judge creative writing, then judge the creative side of it. I.E. Plot, character development, and generally stuff more related to good stories rather than good spelling and grammar. Of course, if spelling and grammar in a story are exceptionally bad, to the point that is significantly ruining the story, than by all means comment on it, and of course i'm not all against it in critique, especially since we all can't have our own editors, but if you're going write that critique then also critique the craft elements.

I mean, what's important is the story. A great story, even with less-then-great punctuation/grammar/spelling etc. is still very enjoyable. You yourself are undertaking a world building project and should understand that it's the idea that matters most. In the end, I'd just like to throw in my two cents and say I wouldn't want this thread become the "Spell Check & Paper Editing" thread.

(The soft word limit I fully endorse, because frankly, I believe my creative writing teacher went mad looong ago from reading endless short stories. Either way, if you take over, best of luck friend.)
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hops

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Re: ___/The Writer's Apprenticeship\___
« Reply #1359 on: April 16, 2015, 06:50:44 pm »

Yeah, I try not to judge much on the grammar side of it because that's the sort of thing you hire an editor to help you out when you try to publish things. You can't get an editor to help you improve on your creative writing, however.

Unless you want H.P. Lovecraft turning your high fantasy into horror.
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Re: ___/The Writer's Apprenticeship\___
« Reply #1360 on: April 16, 2015, 06:52:37 pm »

Yeah, I try not to judge much on the grammar side of it because that's the sort of thing you hire an editor to help you out when you try to publish things. You can't get an editor to help you improve on your creative writing, however.

Unless you want H.P. Lovecraft turning your high fantasy into horror.

Lol, worst editor ever.

"I believe it needs more eldritch horror."
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hops

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Re: ___/The Writer's Apprenticeship\___
« Reply #1361 on: April 16, 2015, 06:54:53 pm »

I actually recall reading about one of Lovecraft's story being from a draft his friend sent for him to look over, and he got annoyed about how bad it is (according to him, anyways) and rewrote the entire thing and sent it back. Because said friend is a fanboy he doesn't get offended and instead let Lovecraft take all the credit since it's basically H.P. Lovecraft's writing at that point.
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bahihs

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Re: ___/The Writer's Apprenticeship\___
« Reply #1362 on: April 16, 2015, 07:50:45 pm »

@Bahihs, since i'm not a very frequent poster I don't want to say much, but I would like to say that if you really want to judge creative writing, then judge the creative side of it. I.E. Plot, character development, and generally stuff more related to good stories rather than good spelling and grammar. Of course, if spelling and grammar in a story are exceptionally bad, to the point that is significantly ruining the story, than by all means comment on it, and of course i'm not all against it in critique, especially since we all can't have our own editors, but if you're going write that critique then also critique the craft elements.

I mean, what's important is the story. A great story, even with less-then-great punctuation/grammar/spelling etc. is still very enjoyable. You yourself are undertaking a world building project and should understand that it's the idea that matters most. In the end, I'd just like to throw in my two cents and say I wouldn't want this thread become the "Spell Check & Paper Editing" thread.

(The soft word limit I fully endorse, because frankly, I believe my creative writing teacher went mad looong ago from reading endless short stories. Either way, if you take over, best of luck friend.)

Yeah, I try not to judge much on the grammar side of it because that's the sort of thing you hire an editor to help you out when you try to publish things. You can't get an editor to help you improve on your creative writing, however.

Unless you want H.P. Lovecraft turning your high fantasy into horror.

The problem with this is that its completely subjective and therefore difficult to judge without bias. The most I can do in this regard is comment on the originality of the ideas (whether something is cliched or unique) but any thing beyond that begins to encroach on opinion which is shaky ground to pass judgement from. Also, the purpose of this thread (as I understand it, from reading the OP) is to help people improve their writing, not necessarily their creativity. The former is not hard to improve or teach (it requires practice and understanding of some concrete ideas) but the latter is more or less impossible. You can teach knowledge, you cannot teach imagination (I could be wrong, and I'd love to be; share your theories if you think otherwise).

I also take the opposite stance regarding writing vs. story, if the writing is good enough the story doesn't matter. The story can be the simplest, most cliched piece of drivel you've ever read, but if it was penned by a genius hand it will never disappoint. On the other hand, there are many people who have fantastic imaginations but whose boundless creativity is crippled by less-than-fantastic writing. You need to have a mastery of your medium first, before you talk about creativity.

That said, I don't want this thread becoming the "spell-check and paper editing" thread either so I'll cut back on the editing (spelling and grammar aren't even the problem most of the time, its syntax). But the point is, you can't get anyone to improve your creativity, editor or otherwise; and I'd rather focus on things which give definite improvement than give arbitrary critique on story elements (which is often difficult to follow up on).

I'd be nice if we can go on Google or whatever and discuss each submissions with each other. Normally I do that with Tiruin but she's usually too busy nowadays. I'm very indecisive when I do them by myself.

We can use PM's if you like, I prefer them since I'm online at random times (which doesn't give much opportunity for instant messaging type things).

Anyway. I believe I have to give two new prompts? Here they are:

1. Write something funny about something serious and taboo (e.g genocide, infanticide, cannibalism, torture etc.)
2. Take the dullest/most ordinary occupation you can think of (e.g plumber) add something fantastical (e.g aliens) and then write about it
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zubb2

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Re: ___/The Writer's Apprenticeship\___
« Reply #1363 on: April 16, 2015, 08:28:50 pm »

1. Write something funny about something serious and taboo (e.g genocide, infanticide, cannibalism, torture etc.)
2. Take the dullest/most ordinary occupation you can think of (e.g plumber) add something fantastical (e.g aliens) and then write about it
QUOTED
UNQUOTED

What you mean mario?
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TD1

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Re: ___/The Writer's Apprenticeship\___
« Reply #1364 on: April 17, 2015, 01:17:07 pm »

Cast doubts away and find the certainty
That hides within each mind,
You know just what I mean, life is a tapestry
That can reveal or blind.

Two things I found today, one sad the other glad
And I will truss them up in threads of gold
And keep them there, the good and bad,
Until I'm stooped and old.

Death came on wings of black and stole away
A piece of me, but gave me back
A piece of day.
But why?

I've tried to cast my doubts away, but hear the wings
The thud, thud thud of doom
Inside my head it is, it rings
And fills the darkened room.

I've tried to find my certainty within the tapestry,
But ropes of colour hold me there
And blind me to the good, show me the misery;
The evil that has robbed me of the fair.

Darkness creeps upon the stair
And whiteness creeps within my hair,
But is it youth or age or care
And should I be happy, or beware?
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