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Finally... => Forum Games and Roleplaying => Topic started by: Nirur Torir on March 11, 2023, 07:56:04 pm

Title: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread - End
Post by: Nirur Torir on March 11, 2023, 07:56:04 pm
Years ago, there was a small string of forum games based on Civilization. I want to bring one back.

Players each have one city, with an urban center and surrounding rural hexes to upgrade and assign workers to. They explore the world map, looking for neutral villages, interesting places to exploit by building outposts, and if they're lucky, ancient ruins from before the calamities. Research new technology, both common techs and unique faction techs. Train large armies. Meet other players and have peaceful diplomatic talks.

Our ancestors had a golden age of bronze and magic, shattered by greed, ambition, and magic too great for mortals to handle responsibly. Hundreds of years later, the winds of cataclysm finally abate. The surface still lashes out destructively at times, by wild magical discharges or more natural weather. Still, it is growing less dangerous every year, and the time to reclaim and rebuild draws near.

Quote from: Sign-up sheet
Civilization and city name:
Race and society: Do you have a military order of spartan surface dwarves, let by a trio of generals who share power equally? A group of philosophical party hobbits lead by a philosopher king?
Theme: A brief, abstract description, of up to 5 words, which will be the main feature defining your strengths and weaknesses. Peaceful Farmers, Decentralized Druidic Horsemen, utilitarian military-industrial merchants, etc.
Brief History of the city and its surroundings: Important for creating the city map and start conditions. Did a magical bunker complex run out of power, forcing your people out and into a hilly river valley? Are you leading a group that fled encroaching desert in boats, forced to land on and make due with an archipelago? Especially difficult starts may be balanced by being near valuable resources on the world map, but you'll still need to find them and have the strength to colonize them.
Magic type: One word, such as Elementalism, Hydromancy, Arcane, Divine, Astral, Enchantment, etc. This will be the general magic theme for unique magical researches.
Racial Frequency: Common, uncommon, or exotic.
Spoiler: Racial Frequency (click to show/hide)

Descriptions can be simple or complex.
Spoiler: Example Race (click to show/hide)

To keep players on a relatively even science playing field, each player will have a limited tech tree per era, and only a limited number of slots for researchers. Eras will begin to advance once someone researches all their technology, and those that do will have a golden age for the remainder of the era.

It is expected that players will look at each others' turn and results posts, but try to avoid meta-gaming too much.
To be respectful, please write your turn up before looking at other' posted actions, don't change your orders after seeing where your rival is sending his army, and try not to base your actions off of what others are doing behind spoiler boxes in any case.
Reading the results of their actions in my post before you write yours is allowed (IE, feel free to do "you found a ruby mine, I want to trade my emeralds for them."). Please spoil turn posts. Feel free to redact secret actions and PM them to me if you want to be particularly discreet. You may occasionally redact innocuous actions if you really want to be sneaky, but please don't do this every turn.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Sign-ups (0/6)
Post by: Nirur Torir on March 11, 2023, 08:32:54 pm
Spoiler: City Basics (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Building Types (click to show/hide)


Spoiler: Leaders (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Military and Units (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Food and Your People (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Money (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Research (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: City Surroundings (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: External Expansion (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Random Events (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Beasts of Burden (click to show/hide)


Spoiler: Turn Order (click to show/hide)

Reference:


Spoiler: Buildings (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Tech List (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Equipment (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Misc (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Sign-ups (0/6)
Post by: Nirur Torir on March 11, 2023, 08:33:55 pm
Reserved for index
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Sign-ups (0/6)
Post by: Stirk on March 12, 2023, 05:24:51 pm
Civilization and city name: Hinterland, Avalon
Race and society: Deep in the mountains far from civilization, there is a civilization of Doppelgangers capable of shifting their form to suit their environment. Most of their organization is based on extended family units, with each family sending a representative to Avalon when major decisions need to be made.
Theme: Shape-changing Mountain Men
Brief History of the city and its surroundings: Before the Calamity, Doppelgangers where persecuted under the assumption that they where capable of killing and replacing high ranking members of other races. This was not helped by several high profile attempts at doing just that. As a result discovered Doppelgangers where forced to flee civilization long before the cataclysm, living deep in the mountains where they hunted, trapped, and fished to survive.
Magic type: Transmutation
Racial Frequency: Exotic.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Sign-ups (0/6)
Post by: Nirur Torir on March 12, 2023, 07:34:43 pm
Civilization and city name: Hinterland, Avalon
Race and society: Deep in the mountains far from civilization, there is a civilization of Doppelgangers capable of shifting their form to suit their environment. Most of their organization is based on extended family units, with each family sending a representative to Avalon when major decisions need to be made.
Theme: Shape-changing Mountain Men
Brief History of the city and its surroundings: Before the Calamity, Doppelgangers where persecuted under the assumption that they where capable of killing and replacing high ranking members of other races. This was not helped by several high profile attempts at doing just that. As a result discovered Doppelgangers where forced to flee civilization long before the cataclysm, living deep in the mountains where they hunted, trapped, and fished to survive.
Magic type: Transmutation
Racial Frequency: Exotic.

That doesn't give many hints about what sort of civilization bonuses to give. Do you want to keep this for a civilization bonus?
Quote from: The Dopplegangers of Hinterlands, numbers subject to change and a balancing pass
Infiltrators - 50% chance for commanders with control over (or allied control over) at least one dopplegager unit to know enemy tactics and attempt to counter them.
Stealthy - Light units recieve a free Stealthy trait.
  The Stealthy trait makes it much easier for units in terrain such as forests or mountains to hide from more powerful forces, and often gives a first round surprise bonus. It does not work in open terrain, such as grasslands or deserts.
  Units such as infantry in medium armor and archers count as light units. Mail-armored pikemen or knights count as heavy units, and would not get this trait.

Battles will be simple. Players may optionally choose to give specific tactics before it begins, such as "hide my cavalry in the trees behind the enemy army, then flank once they're committed in battle" or "focus fire on the enemy battleship. Bring it down at all costs." Knowing that the enemy has isolated cavalry hiding near your army is a situationally powerful advantage. Similarly, Stealthy can be used for a tactical advantage, but will also often give a standard mechanical bonus of doing extra morale damage if they can attack from hiding.

It's a much weirder set than someone with something like "units get +40% defense when defending settlements, walls are built at half cost," focused more on changing the military paradigm when fighting against you than on direct mechanical boosts.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Sign-ups (1/6)
Post by: Stirk on March 12, 2023, 07:43:19 pm
Sure, looks fine to me.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Sign-ups (1/6)
Post by: Criptfeind on March 12, 2023, 08:06:32 pm
Cool, it's been a long time since age of restoration II, but I have still have some fond memories of that game.

Civilization and city name: The Theocracy of Helianthia, Solaris City
Race and society: The Helians are a plantoid race, their bodies made of a tangle of vines binding together to make their form capped by a flowering head. The type of flower that they have as a head dictates their place in society. Their civilization is focused around the worship of the life giving sun and their society is ruled by the upper caste of sunflower headed high priests that lead said worship.
Theme: Religious Caste based Flowers
Brief History of the city and its surroundings: Solaris city is located at the base of an made of rocks quarried from the Blooming Mountain, a lone mountain that reaches high above a lush jungle lowlands. In times past the Helians spread throughout the jungle and nearby lands, but during the cataclysm the jungle became wild and unlivable, full of deadly beasts, plants, and other phenomenon. The theocracy crumbled to just the capital where they barely held on though the worst of times. Now that the cataclysm has faded the Sun Flowers have declared it time for the second Blooming of the Helian Civilization.
Magic type: Solar
Racial Frequency: Uncommon
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Sign-ups (1/6)
Post by: Egan_BW on March 12, 2023, 08:31:15 pm
Civilization and city name: Gruggus Tribeship, Grugunnium
Race and society: The Grug is a big green humanoid who lives in tight family units united by the "Big Man/Lady" who is elected by all Gruggi for the best traits of swoleness and wisdom. They prefer to mainly live off the land, supplementing the diet of a hunter gatherer with the nourishing rays of the sun on their green flesh. Grugunnium itself is fed by surrounding farms, though Gruggi will grumble about the work and less tasty food. Though the Big Man/Lady is the nominal leader of Gruggus, important decisions such as declaring war require a general election of all Gruggi.
Theme: Democratic Green Tribal Confederation
Brief History of the city and its surroundings: Grugunnium is located in a hot jungle valley, where many Gruggi migrated during the Calamity due to the availability of food and sun. According to legend, the Gruggi were created in mass by a pre-Calamity civilization to be used as soldiers. During the Calamity itself most Grug were wild and mad, lashing out at anything in reach and surviving the hazards of the Calamity by sheer tenacity. The end of the Calamity seems to have prompted the Gruggi to band together rather than fight one another, leading to the formation of the Gruggus Tribeship.
Magic type: Muscle
Racial Frequency: Common

Green is best.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Sign-ups (0/6)
Post by: Toaster on March 12, 2023, 09:07:47 pm
Mmmmmm sure.


Civilization and city name:  Stonulus  --  Granite
Race and society: The Stonulus people are a race of contemplative stone trolls.  Unlike many of the other trolls, the Stonulus people are slow and thoughtful, like the stone that they almost appear to be made of.  Stonulus people move slowly and act slowly, but are equally unyielding when outsiders get in their way.  They are a bit distrustful, given that people unfamiliar with them associate them with their more violent cousins, but accept others that prove their tolerance.  They tend toward a philosophical bent when left alone.  They are led by a Rockelder, who is elected from a council of prominent family heads, who then serves until death or infirmity.  They wield some power, but still must listen to the council.
Theme: Stony Thinkers
Brief History of the city and its surroundings: Granite is the Stonulus capital.  Located in a high mountain range, the city proper is carved into the living rock.  While much of it is above ground, there are extensive tunnels below which are used for mushroom farming and preservation and storage.  The original capital was destroyed in the Calamity when the mountain it was made from suddenly became volcanic.  The city was slow to regrow, and is finally reaching prominence, though little growth is beyond the city proper.
Magic type: Enchantment
Racial Frequency: Uncommon
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Sign-ups (1/6)
Post by: Criptfeind on March 12, 2023, 09:18:31 pm
Green is best.

Truth
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Sign-ups (1/6)
Post by: Glass on March 12, 2023, 09:39:12 pm
Civilization and city name: The Reclaimers, of the Rusted Caravan
Race and society: The Bronzemade are mechanical beings, leftovers of the golden age awoken by chance. With shattered memories of the Calamity, they struggle with the simultaneous desire to reclaim the lost knowledge of that age and the fear of repeating its mistakes. To that end, they have collectively sworn themselves to pacifism as they travel the world in search of the ruins of the past. In terms of governance, hypothetically, each Bronzemade has a vote in their council; in practice, most will give their vote to one of the Caravan's philosophers and debaters who seems to most closely align with their opinions.
Theme: Wandering Pacifist Scholar-Merchant Archeologists
Brief History of the city and its surroundings: The Rusted Caravan is barely a city. For one, it moves. But it roughly fulfills some of the functions that a city would need in the slow-moving vehicles and heavy sleds carried along it, with resting quarters, repair workshops, and meeting chambers carried along in the procession, though the rough status of these vehicles render the Caravan unable to move into difficult or crowded terrains, and the lack of walls renders it difficult to defend the way a static fortification could be. The Caravan started in what could only be called a graveyard - the site of an ancient battle at the tail end of the golden age, where many of the Bronzemade fought and were killed or otherwise broken; indeed, many of the Reclaimers bear these ancient wounds.
Magic type: Artifice
Racial Frequency: Exotic
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Sign-ups (1/6)
Post by: Egan_BW on March 12, 2023, 09:57:44 pm
Hey look someone else did precursor brobots. I was gonna do a rogue servitor thing but figured the game needed more common races. And green, of course.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Sign-ups (1/6)
Post by: Glass on March 12, 2023, 10:00:33 pm
I will note that the only other race I looked at before deciding on the direction I was going to take was Stirk's.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Sign-ups (1/6)
Post by: IronyOwl on March 12, 2023, 10:26:00 pm
Civilization and city name: The Chain of Petals, Ashcrown
Race and society: Ashcrown elves are ruled by a High Patriarch, who is also kin to most of the city's population. Several lesser Patriarchs and Matriarchs serve on a council, having risen to prominence and thus made their own lineages important. Ashcrown society is decadent and ambitious, seeking to dominate and nurture life to create luxurious gardens befitting the status of those tending them. This applies as much to the elves themselves as to the pets, crops, and slaves, and so individual elves are constantly striving to better themselves and rise above their station.
Theme: Decadent Gardener Elves
Brief History of the city and its surroundings: The Calamity taught many lessons, most of which were ignored by the Ashcrown Elves. Instead the survivors colonized a shattered river delta and carried on as though nothing were amiss, weathering brutal storms and waves of mutant horror through ambition, grace, and an uncanny ability to mend and mutate living tissue. The river delta is now thickly forested with vibrant bioengineered life, pleasing to elven aesthetics and goals. The city itself is much the same, largely alive and teeming with haughty elves and their pets.
Magic type: Biomancy
Racial Frequency: Common
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Sign-ups (1/6)
Post by: crazyabe on March 12, 2023, 10:28:26 pm
Spoiler: Magic Desert Vikings (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Sign-ups (1/6)
Post by: Stirk on March 12, 2023, 10:33:33 pm
I will note that the only other race I looked at before deciding on the direction I was going to take was Stirk's.

That is the only one you really need to look at anyway.

Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Sign-ups (1/6)
Post by: a1s on March 13, 2023, 09:07:03 am
In as replacement, I guess.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Nirur Torir on March 13, 2023, 01:28:43 pm
It's good to see all these old players coming back.

In as replacement, I guess.
You - and others who want in the waitlist before I make the world - may PM me a civ sheet. I'll base an NPC settlement off it, and possibly give choices for how they develop between eras. If we later need a replacement, you'll have your choice of replacing in over the old player or taking direct player control over your NPCs.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Nirur Torir on March 13, 2023, 06:11:58 pm
I copied and edited the rules from my old old Age of Restoration II game. I'll mostly re-use them. The most notable change is that the early Trade research will give a slow income of Trade Goods, which you can't use yourself, but others can use as luxury goods. Trade should be more fun if it's not always zero-sum.

Rules Post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=181490.msg8460444#msg8460444)

Civilization and city name: The Reclaimers, of the Rusted Caravan
Race and society: The Bronzemade are mechanical beings, leftovers of the golden age awoken by chance. With shattered memories of the Calamity, they struggle with the simultaneous desire to reclaim the lost knowledge of that age and the fear of repeating its mistakes. To that end, they have collectively sworn themselves to pacifism as they travel the world in search of the ruins of the past. In terms of governance, hypothetically, each Bronzemade has a vote in their council; in practice, most will give their vote to one of the Caravan's philosophers and debaters who seems to most closely align with their opinions.
Theme: Wandering Pacifist Scholar-Merchant Archeologists
Brief History of the city and its surroundings: The Rusted Caravan is barely a city. For one, it moves. But it roughly fulfills some of the functions that a city would need in the slow-moving vehicles and heavy sleds carried along it, with resting quarters, repair workshops, and meeting chambers carried along in the procession, though the rough status of these vehicles render the Caravan unable to move into difficult or crowded terrains, and the lack of walls renders it difficult to defend the way a static fortification could be. The Caravan started in what could only be called a graveyard - the site of an ancient battle at the tail end of the golden age, where many of the Bronzemade fought and were killed or otherwise broken; indeed, many of the Reclaimers bear these ancient wounds.
Magic type: Artifice
Racial Frequency: Exotic
I can't balance rules enough to make special nomad rules, but I can make your big civilization bonus be a mobile colony. You'll still have a regular city, so please describe the terrain around it.
There will be bandits. Please be more specific with how pacifistic you'll be.

I think it would start needing repairs, costing about 2 buildings worth (Around 6 labor and 3 wood/stone), and a unit of spears so I have an excuse for it to "suffer damage and chase off bandits" instead of destroying it the first time it gets attacked.
Players start with 10,000 people. A normal colony costs 5000 population, some materials, and research.
Starting with half population would be crippling. I think it might be balanced if it costs 2000 population, though that still is a hit to growth. It would be able to gather 2 resources from a square if it moves 0-1 spaces that turn, plus feed itself. It would serve to extend supply ranges. It would slowly explore adjacent squares for free. While it can be used to gather rare resources instead of an expensive colony, it would only be able to stay stationary for a few turns before being forced or strongly encouraged to move on.

Will that work for you? Are there any complaints about the balance for it?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Glass on March 13, 2023, 10:13:21 pm
Hmn.

Eh. I don't think my idea is really set to work out with this. You listed 6 players wanted, and there were 7 of us who posted sheets; I'd be fine being the one cut.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: crazyabe on March 16, 2023, 02:37:05 am
Poke?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Nirur Torir on March 16, 2023, 05:50:42 pm
Tech and city layouts are still in the planning phase. For now, check your civilization bonuses, they can be changed if you don't like them or if they need a balancing pass.






Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Egan_BW on March 16, 2023, 08:51:00 pm
Seems good, simple but strong. Having two widely applicable traits and no downsides makes me wonder if I got the best deal.

Also looking forwards to seeing techs and city buildings.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: IronyOwl on March 16, 2023, 08:58:23 pm
Nice. Only the fanciest elves for me!
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Criptfeind on March 16, 2023, 09:32:17 pm
My bonuses are for sure somewhat difficult to tell how good they are, (other traits seem like a net negative but flower castes seems like it could be very strong if mid game allows more of a urban focus?) but I find them copacetic either way. I do have a few questions about the specifics of how they work.

Does constructing Urban buildings count as labor spent in the city center for the purposes of Flower Castes? Same question for for tile improvements placed on the city tile (walls and such?).

And for Praise the Sun, just to make sure, does it also allow me access to the tombs (tombs AND shrine upgrade) or does it lock me out of them for a more shrine focused path? I assume the second but I figured I'd ask to make sure. And if I recall both tombs and shrines gave the same luxury (assuming they work the same as in age of restoration) so a shrine that's twice as good is just as good as a shrine and tomb?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Nirur Torir on March 16, 2023, 10:05:32 pm
My bonuses are for sure somewhat difficult to tell how good they are, (other traits seem like a net negative
I made the fire and ice hit harder because I don't expect fire and ice mages before era 3-4 at the earliest, unless someone gets lucky with magic swords, and a that point you'd have had the opportunity to try to research a counter anyway.

Does constructing Urban buildings count as labor spent in the city center for the purposes of Flower Castes? Same question for for tile improvements placed on the city tile (walls and such?).
Yes and yes, as should most crafting tasks.

Quote
And for Praise the Sun, just to make sure, does it also allow me access to the tombs (tombs AND shrine upgrade) or does it lock me out of them for a more shrine focused path? I assume the second but I figured I'd ask to make sure. And if I recall both tombs and shrines gave the same luxury (assuming they work the same as in age of restoration) so a shrine that's twice as good is just as good as a shrine and tomb?
It replaces ceremonial burial as a cosmetic side-grade, and the shrine upgrade replaces tombs as a cosmetic side-grade. Memes aside, it's the exactly same, except as a hook: You writing religious flavor text between eras might give actually unique religious techs.
I started writing starting structures and had you with a shrine, which makes it make more sense as a starting tech, but deleted those until I make terrain.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Toaster on March 16, 2023, 10:07:04 pm
I'm good!  Slow units make me a bit sad, but it's thematic and the good bonuses look really nice.  I'll just have to be more tall than wide- which it looks like this game is themed more in that direction anyway.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: crazyabe on March 16, 2023, 10:28:04 pm
seems reasonable enough
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Egan_BW on March 16, 2023, 11:03:20 pm
Wouldn't it be fairly reasonable to make infantry armed with torches for low tech fire damage? Probably less effective overall than physical weapons.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Stirk on March 16, 2023, 11:09:47 pm
I’m preappeoved, so no problems there.

We’re going to have to take out Toaster fast before that research bump offs us :V

Wouldn't it be fairly reasonable to make infantry armed with torches for low tech fire damage? Probably less effective overall than physical weapons.

Falarica where BC era
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Egan_BW on March 16, 2023, 11:14:34 pm
Somehow I doubt that starting leader bonuses will matter much by the time we're in any position to take one another out. Not to mention the era thing limiting how useful research advantage is anyways.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Stirk on March 16, 2023, 11:22:45 pm
Somehow I doubt that starting leader bonuses will matter much by the time we're in any position to take one another out. Not to mention the era thing limiting how useful research advantage is anyways.

Trying to get me to lower my guard are you? Nice try big green. Nice try.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Toaster on March 16, 2023, 11:52:54 pm
We’re going to have to take out Toaster fast before that research bump offs us :V

He's just trying to distract away from his plans.  I've got no expansion so I can't get to the world domination threat level.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Egan_BW on March 17, 2023, 02:03:52 am
Yo guys I'm just gonna be green and have fun with it this is barely a competitive game anyways.

Also is leather a luxury good?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: IronyOwl on March 17, 2023, 02:27:40 am
You should all murder the greenskins so I become the best trading civ by default. Then you'll get to deal with snooty elves in fancy silks tsk tsking about how poor you are.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Egan_BW on March 17, 2023, 02:30:50 am
Green is friend.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: crazyabe on March 17, 2023, 07:44:13 am
The Raiders agree- once the green ones are gone the Snooty elves will make for an easy target.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Egan_BW on March 17, 2023, 08:02:32 am
Really moth, shouldn't we commons be friends? We can trade things and stuff.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Stirk on March 17, 2023, 10:46:27 am
Really moth, shouldn't we commons be friends? We can trade things and stuff.

It isn’t easy being green
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: IronyOwl on March 17, 2023, 04:43:28 pm
Of course we're friends! We're the only ones who can trade with each other without completing a top secret research project on each other first.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Nirur Torir on March 17, 2023, 05:02:17 pm
Of course we're friends! We're the only ones who can trade with each other without completing a top secret research project on each other first.
Put like that, it makes it sound like a dumb mechanic.
Now I'm second-guessing myself and I'm not sure I even made the choices have enough impact on civ bonuses. Balance is hard.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Stirk on March 17, 2023, 07:22:51 pm
There is simply an unspoken agreement that we are going full agro on each other and have no use for trade
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Nirur Torir on March 17, 2023, 07:42:59 pm
Balance should be easy enough if the rare race cultural/trade techs are all cheap techs, actually. It's easy to get one or two, but choosing between limiting relations like that or researching several easy techs becomes a downside.

I think I'm going to break my own rules. Since IronyOwl's elves are common, there's supposed to be another elf settlement, but that would ruin the faction special of a unique resource.

Instead, the pseudo-GMPC elves will have a bonus that gives them some free gold from trading, exact amount undetermined. Then they can cause problems in the game by filling the trade needs of NPC settlements, and then making even more money by selling mercenary contracts to players who are nice to them. But please continue fighting each other, the elves are not loot pinatas, no matter how full their vaults are with gold.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Toaster on March 17, 2023, 08:25:26 pm
Of course we're friends! We're the only ones who can trade with each other without completing a top secret research project on each other first.
Put like that, it makes it sound like a dumb mechanic.
Now I'm second-guessing myself and I'm not sure I even made the choices have enough impact on civ bonuses. Balance is hard.

Well, one would assume we're going to have to explore a bit to even find each other, and even then we're unlikely to have enough military to seriously wallop each other (unless you full send military, that is.)
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Stirk on March 17, 2023, 09:06:59 pm
Of course we're friends! We're the only ones who can trade with each other without completing a top secret research project on each other first.
Put like that, it makes it sound like a dumb mechanic.
Now I'm second-guessing myself and I'm not sure I even made the choices have enough impact on civ bonuses. Balance is hard.

Well, one would assume we're going to have to explore a bit to even find each other, and even then we're unlikely to have enough military to seriously wallop each other (unless you full send military, that is.)

That is why I suggested teaming up against the research rocks!
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Toaster on March 17, 2023, 11:15:25 pm
Psh, they're no threat; there's plenty of REAL threats out there.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Nirur Torir on March 18, 2023, 07:38:44 pm
Techs are here. Generic techs are described in the rules post.
I don't think that anyone who's dumber than a troll will be able to research their entire era 1 tech tree in 8 turns.
Currently unavailable techs may be available in era 2. There's some fuzziness, but you're mostly split into groups that ran into the wilds and have Exploration and easier pottery to survive famines, and groups that hid in place and have Town Planning for a higher soft population cap and Construction+granary to survive famines. Granaries are more efficient in the long run, but it may be difficult to research Construction and build one before turn 3. As such, nobody starts with Construction researched. Instead, the green people get farming, and the trolls get mushroom farming.

I might get the city maps out tonight so we can get started, but the goal is tomorrow night.






Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Criptfeind on March 18, 2023, 07:56:32 pm
Restricted tech access is always an interesting thing to me in games that have it, even if it makes balancing even harder to do it's just sorta cool imo. So I'm interested to see how it goes in this game.

I have a question about the "mitigate famine" portion of the solar focuser... As in, how does that actually work? Is it basically 1 food that I can't use as luxury goods or store for the future? Or does it only appear if necessary to prevent a famine that turn (IE making exactly the amount of food the city consumes)? Or do I already need to be in a famine for that food to appear? Or in some other way? Is there some negative to it?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Nirur Torir on March 18, 2023, 08:01:57 pm
Restricted tech access is always an interesting thing to me in games that have it, even if it makes balancing even harder to do it's just sorta cool imo. So I'm interested to see how it goes in this game.

I have a question about the "mitigate famine" portion of the solar focuser... As in, how does that actually work? Is it basically 1 food that I can't use as luxury goods or store for the future? Or does it only appear if necessary to prevent a famine that turn (IE making exactly the amount of food the city consumes)? Or do I already need to be in a famine for that food to appear? Or in some other way? Is there some negative to it?
A famine is a special event I'll declare, which reduces food output, something like either "-4 total food produced this turn" or "all tiles produce -1 food this turn." Famine mitigation reduces the severity of one by producing bonus food, but only during a famine.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Criptfeind on March 18, 2023, 08:05:50 pm
Ah, right, okay, that makes perfect sense like that! I just assumed "famine" meant the negative consequences of having not enough food for your pops.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Egan_BW on March 18, 2023, 08:48:55 pm
Darn, went from free construction to no construction at all. Guess no fancy walled city for me.

Farming tech is 2 labor for +1 food per labor forevermore. Takes a few turns to break even, but more food is appreciated. Does tie up some labor in starting turns on stuff which isn't glorious science and/or exploration though.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Egan_BW on March 18, 2023, 09:05:44 pm
For a moment I was concerned that you need 1 labor just to make 1 clothing, but then I remembered that 1 unit of luxury good is actually enough for 10 pops. So 1 labor working hills and 1 labor making clothes is a +1 morale for a whole starting population. Add in 150% food production and morale will be looking good.

That's 5 labor working river plains, or irrigated plains, or irrigated river hills. Won't start with much irrigation, but at least most tiles give 1 food.

Again, thinking in these terms doesn't seem like the best way to run through tech quickly. I at least have an explorer leader, which will require training a unit. Which consumes an extra 0.1 food, and loss of 0.1 labor, negligible. But then there's weapons or having an extra one or two units for defense. Hmm. As far as I can tell, raising a unit itself doesn't cost labor. But it might be a bad idea to send them to do anything without paying the 2 labor for spears.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Toaster on March 18, 2023, 09:16:14 pm
Hard to plan too much ahead without seeing full starting conditions.  Do you start with any buildings?

Also, for mushroom farming, how exactly does that work?  Is that "you can spend three labor on any hill/mountain tile to get two food, but that's all you can do on that tile" or can you also work it normally?  I assume that's repeatable, so you can mushroom farm multiple tiles?  It does seem to be a bit of a "for emergencies only" tech since you're producing less food with it than you're eating with that same labor, but if there's no other way to get that last two food it beat starving.  I'm going to secretly assume there's a way to buff it later.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Stirk on March 18, 2023, 09:19:51 pm
Darn, went from free construction to no construction at all. Guess no fancy walled city for me.

Farming tech is 2 labor for +1 food per labor forevermore. Takes a few turns to break even, but more food is appreciated. Does tie up some labor in starting turns on stuff which isn't glorious science and/or exploration though.

Farming plains is 4 Food/Labor with no resource setup, Fishing is 3 Food/Labor with wood required. You're getting the better deal unless Fishing gets some cool stuff down the line or River tiles are really rare :V

Quote
Hills (Brown)
1 food, 1 wool

Wood right?

Hard to plan too much ahead without seeing full starting conditions.  Do you start with any buildings?

Also, for mushroom farming, how exactly does that work?  Is that "you can spend three labor on any hill/mountain tile to get two food, but that's all you can do on that tile" or can you also work it normally?  I assume that's repeatable, so you can mushroom farm multiple tiles?  It does seem to be a bit of a "for emergencies only" tech since you're producing less food with it than you're eating with that same labor, but if there's no other way to get that last two food it beat starving.  I'm going to secretly assume there's a way to buff it later.

1000 dudes = 1 labor = 1 food so you should have a surplus unless I missed something.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Egan_BW on March 18, 2023, 09:23:15 pm
Also, for mushroom farming, how exactly does that work?  Is that "you can spend three labor on any hill/mountain tile to get two food, but that's all you can do on that tile" or can you also work it normally?  I assume that's repeatable, so you can mushroom farm multiple tiles?  It does seem to be a bit of a "for emergencies only" tech since you're producing less food with it than you're eating with that same labor, but if there's no other way to get that last two food it beat starving.  I'm going to secretly assume there's a way to buff it later.

I believe it's a tile improvement. So the 3 labor is only spent once, and from then on that tile produces 2 food in addition to whatever else it produces when worked with 1 labor. So it's +1 food on hills tiles (which aren't on rivers) or +2 food for mountain tiles.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Toaster on March 18, 2023, 09:23:57 pm
Oh, yeah, that makes way more sense as a tile improvement than as a special labor.  Derp.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Egan_BW on March 18, 2023, 09:30:15 pm

Farming plains is 4 Food/Labor with no resource setup, Fishing is 3 Food/Labor with wood required. You're getting the better deal unless Fishing gets some cool stuff down the line or River tiles are really rare :V

I'm going to covet labor a bit more than resources for now. No idea how many plains rivers I'll get. My application says a jungle valley which isn't very compatible with a tech made for plains and hills. :v

Quote
Hills (Brown)
1 food, 1 wool

Wood right?

Wool, like from sheep. It's used to make clothing so that your people aren't sad and naked.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Nirur Torir on March 18, 2023, 09:31:07 pm
Which consumes an extra 0.1 food, and loss of 0.1 labor, negligible. But then there's weapons or having an extra one or two units for defense. Hmm. As far as I can tell, raising a unit itself doesn't cost labor.
Units have no food upkeep. Only luxuries are tracked to 0.1 instead of 1, so that would be annoying.
Correct, raising a unit with no equipment is free. You're limited to one unit raised per turn, and civilians will be unhappy if unarmed "military" units suffer casualties.

Hard to plan too much ahead without seeing full starting conditions.  Do you start with any buildings?
Yes. To be determined after I make terrain to look at.

I believe it's a tile improvement. So the 3 labor is only spent once, and from then on that tile produces 2 food in addition to whatever else it produces when worked with 1 labor. So it's +1 food on hills tiles (which aren't on rivers) or +2 food for mountain tiles.
Yes.
I'm interested in seeing how it plays out, I don't remember anything like that being in the games this is based off of.

Wood right?
No, wool is correct. Wool + 1 labor produces clothes, which gives 10,000 people +1 morale.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Stirk on March 18, 2023, 09:34:29 pm
Units have no food upkeep. Only luxuries are tracked to 0.1 instead of 1, so that would be annoying.

Quote
Military units consume double food. That is, a standard unit of archers with 100 population will consume 0.2 food per turn. If forced to forage in the wilderness (Extended global travels without supplies or a lack of food), they'll lose morale and health, based on how hospitable the terrain is.

Quote
No, wool is correct. Wool + 1 labor produces clothes, which gives 10,000 people +1 morale.

Oh neat.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Egan_BW on March 18, 2023, 09:36:03 pm
Which consumes an extra 0.1 food, and loss of 0.1 labor, negligible. But then there's weapons or having an extra one or two units for defense. Hmm. As far as I can tell, raising a unit itself doesn't cost labor.
Units have no food upkeep. Only luxuries are tracked to 0.1 instead of 1, so that would be annoying.
Correct, raising a unit with no equipment is free. You're limited to one unit raised per turn, and civilians will be unhappy if unarmed "military" units suffer casualties.

Rules seem to state standard units consume 0.2 food:
Quote
Military units consume double food. That is, a standard unit of archers with 100 population will consume 0.2 food per turn. If forced to forage in the wilderness (Extended global travels without supplies or a lack of food), they'll lose morale and health, based on how hospitable the terrain is.

Happy to not worry about it if you think it's not worth tracking, though. :p
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Toaster on March 18, 2023, 09:38:29 pm
Hard to plan too much ahead without seeing full starting conditions.  Do you start with any buildings?
Yes. To be determined after I make terrain to look at.

I believe it's a tile improvement. So the 3 labor is only spent once, and from then on that tile produces 2 food in addition to whatever else it produces when worked with 1 labor. So it's +1 food on hills tiles (which aren't on rivers) or +2 food for mountain tiles.
Yes.
I'm interested in seeing how it plays out, I don't remember anything like that being in the games this is based off of.

This'll mean I can settle and prosper in areas other races might consider too rocky to live in without food imports.  It'll certainly affect the relative value of terrains.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Nirur Torir on March 18, 2023, 09:40:19 pm
Units have no food upkeep. Only luxuries are tracked to 0.1 instead of 1, so that would be annoying.

Quote
Military units consume double food. That is, a standard unit of archers with 100 population will consume 0.2 food per turn. If forced to forage in the wilderness (Extended global travels without supplies or a lack of food), they'll lose morale and health, based on how hospitable the terrain is.
I copy-paste-edited most of the rules, thank you for catching that.
Because I'm lazy, military units now officially eat for free. They'll have gold by the time you can recruit enough of them to matter anyway. They still need a supply line to get their free food, which will be within about 4-5 tiles of your city at first.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Egan_BW on March 19, 2023, 06:40:06 am
Bit of a silly question, but since Gruggi are photosynthetic too, is there any chance I could ever acquire a Solar Condenser or similar?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Nirur Torir on March 19, 2023, 08:56:24 pm
I might get the city maps out tonight so we can get started, but the goal is tomorrow night.
I'll need another day to figure out what to do about balancing people who decided a desert was a nice place to live. Unless a better idea comes up, I might do hills and a big oasis, or I might make a special desert animal to build pastures of.

Bit of a silly question, but since Gruggi are photosynthetic too, is there any chance I could ever acquire a Solar Condenser or similar?
I consider it a fairly poor tech, since it gives at best 1.65 food/labor, while an improved non-river tile generally makes 3 resources, and famines will be more common in era 1, but yes.

At the end of each era, you'll get the chance to do an RP write-up about how your civilization is changing, and where they're heading. I'll base the new techs and leader partially on what you've done in the era, partially on that write-up, and partially on ??.
You can also use this to branch into entirely new magical areas if wanted, which might surpass or overwrite the magical field decided on at the start.
So if you spend an era building a lot of walls, and then have flavor text about the walls creating a cultural obsession with building boats, I'd probably give you an engineer or admiral leader, a new Advanced Fortification tech, and both tier I and tier II naval tech.

I'll generally be wary of letting people crib unique techs outright, and might want to wait two eras and/or have an clear tech path towards it. Since you're already photosynthetic and it's a basic tech with no pre-reqs other than photosynthesis and Solar Magic, I think I'll allow it next era if you can come up with a good explanation for why it fits Muscle Magic or a field of magic you're branching into.
I will also generally have a limited spread of what a player can declare into their tech tree like this. Things you can already reach will be easy, like going from Canoe Making to Sailing, or giving a few ideas on what sorts of magic your magic people are working on for me to pick from. Suddenly changing focus and getting both Canoe Making AND Sailing will be harder, as will trying to learn Toaster's Mushroom Farming or re-inventing Enchantment. It's not an exact system, so feel free to ask "will this work?" when it's time for the era to change.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Stirk on March 19, 2023, 10:12:56 pm
How does a photosynthetic race even get famines? The sun goes out?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Criptfeind on March 19, 2023, 10:16:33 pm
If we meet each other and become friends would it be easier for them to get it? After all, green is friend, and I'm sure the flowers wouldn't mind showing off their wonderful solar tech to their new strangely unbloomed friends. Might even happen, dunno how you're making the map but we both said we live in a jungle so maybe we're close?

How does a photosynthetic race even get famines? The sun goes out?

Photosythesis not enough to support the sick gains of the average Grug. In times of hardship they must choose between starvation and skipping leg day. Naturally this leads to many corpses with beautifully toned thighs.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: crazyabe on March 19, 2023, 10:23:04 pm
I might get the city maps out tonight so we can get started, but the goal is tomorrow night.
I'll need another day to figure out what to do about balancing people who decided a desert was a nice place to live. Unless a better idea comes up, I might do hills and a big oasis, or I might make a special desert animal to build pastures of.
don't blame me for choosing to start in a desert. . .
Quote from: Signup sheet
Especially difficult starts may be balanced by being near valuable resources on the world map, but you'll still need to find them and have the strength to colonize them.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Egan_BW on March 20, 2023, 06:44:37 am
I might get the city maps out tonight so we can get started, but the goal is tomorrow night.
I'll need another day to figure out what to do about balancing people who decided a desert was a nice place to live. Unless a better idea comes up, I might do hills and a big oasis, or I might make a special desert animal to build pastures of.

I'd consider lower resources (with a core oasis of better tiles, which matter more at the start with lower labor available) in exchange for natural defenses. As raiders, they're likely to make enemies who want to retaliate, and the desert can mess with bigger armies (as opposed to smaller raiding parties). Or cliffs and mesas can act as natural walls.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Nirur Torir on March 20, 2023, 07:45:58 pm
Your flags are boring. Give me colors to fill them with, or give me a more personalized flag.

If this looks balanced, the game can start. I think I'll start you with resources instead of buildings, aside from Toaster, who would have a uniquely unpleasant time without them.

Spoiler: Tile number reference (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Crazyabe (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Criptfeind (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Egan (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: IronyOwl (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Stirk (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Toaster (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: crazyabe on March 20, 2023, 08:09:10 pm
Spoiler: Flag? (click to show/hide)
Image provided by AI.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Criptfeind on March 20, 2023, 11:07:12 pm
If this looks balanced, the game can start. I think I'll start you with resources instead of buildings, aside from Toaster, who would have a uniquely unpleasant time without them.

Not sure about balance but I'd say what I notice is that I have access to the fishing tech but no water tiles, and mostly forest tiles but no access to the archery tech. It might make sense to swap them in my tech access list (and it'd make my start a lot better since it'd let me have at least somewhat efficient food harvesting from the forest.)

Spoiler: flag I threw together (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Egan_BW on March 21, 2023, 08:12:59 am
Seems good. For my flag I think a pure green forked banner.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Toaster on March 21, 2023, 08:31:14 am
Spoiler: Flag (click to show/hide)

Let me know if that needs to resize.

Otherwise it looks good.  The starting building is thematic to the lore (and something something tons of mountains).

Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Nirur Torir on March 21, 2023, 10:58:15 am
Not sure about balance but I'd say what I notice is that I have access to the fishing tech but no water tiles, and mostly forest tiles but no access to the archery tech. It might make sense to swap them in my tech access list (and it'd make my start a lot better since it'd let me have at least somewhat efficient food harvesting from the forest.)
Okay, done. You now have archery instead of fishing.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Criptfeind on March 21, 2023, 11:14:57 am
Sweet. That should certainly help.

Also I got around to looking at the others starting maps and noticed this, I think that IronyOwl should have a Shimmersilk Spider ranch placed somewhere? As part of his starting bonus with them?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Stirk on March 21, 2023, 12:38:47 pm
We've invented flags already?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Egan_BW on March 21, 2023, 12:53:24 pm
I shall disassemble my one flag into cloth, then make that cloth into clothing. Muah ha ha.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Egan_BW on March 21, 2023, 01:05:27 pm
I note that since there's nothing to build with 1 wood or 1 stone, starting with 2 wood or 2 stone is better than starting with 1 of each. At least, in an immediate sense, as it allows you to make a building first turn rather than waiting to gather a little more.

I can build spears with 1 wood, but the only use for 1 stone is explorer's hall or horse farm which I lack tech for.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Stirk on March 21, 2023, 01:09:53 pm
I note that since there's nothing to build with 1 wood or 1 stone, starting with 2 wood or 2 stone is better than starting with 1 of each. At least, in an immediate sense, as it allows you to make a building first turn rather than waiting to gather a little more.

I can build spears with 1 wood, but the only use for 1 stone is explorer's hall or horse farm which I lack tech for.

Quote
Unused resources will automatically be stored. Standard warehouses can store 20 resources of each type, excluding perishables like food. Resources may be used in the same turn they are produced. Extra resources over the storage limit are considered to be either given away to the populace or stolen.

Unless that rule also changed you should be able to collect 2 Wood or 2 Stone and then use them in the same turn (assuming you have enough labor)
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Egan_BW on March 21, 2023, 01:15:33 pm
Ah, right. Can I request that we get a rules spoiler with everything's order of operations? Like is population growth before or after other calculations? An idea of that stuff might be present in the rules already but it would be nice to have it on one place.

I would like to do my own calculations, both so that I have a better idea of what's happening and to make the game easier to run.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: IronyOwl on March 21, 2023, 02:01:20 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/LdLDjvg.png)

We've invented flags already?
It was this forbidden knowledge that allowed us to declare cities in the first place. The barbarians look upon us with fuming jealousy, unable to replicate our previously unthinkable feat.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Egan_BW on March 21, 2023, 02:44:56 pm
(https://i.postimg.cc/NjJVQYcW/grug-banner.png)

Shading works surprisingly well. It looks sorta deformed until I added that hehe.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: crazyabe on March 21, 2023, 04:25:00 pm
The barbarians look upon us with fuming jealousy, unable to replicate our previously unthinkable feat.
Aye! don't act like I didn't get a flag!
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Nirur Torir on March 21, 2023, 06:08:26 pm
Also I got around to looking at the others starting maps and noticed this, I think that IronyOwl should have a Shimmersilk Spider ranch placed somewhere? As part of his starting bonus with them?
Yes. IronyOwl, you can place it anywhere other than the capital, since I failed to place it. It works just like a regular pasture, giving +1 food OR +1 silk OR +1 spider.
The spiders are about the size of an apple and have no venom. Please do not throw them, they are not currently a weapon.

I note that since there's nothing to build with 1 wood or 1 stone, starting with 2 wood or 2 stone is better than starting with 1 of each. At least, in an immediate sense, as it allows you to make a building first turn rather than waiting to gather a little more.

I can build spears with 1 wood, but the only use for 1 stone is explorer's hall or horse farm which I lack tech for.
It might not actually be written anywhere, but if something lists its costs like "2 wood or 2 stone," you can generally use any combination of them.

Ah, right. Can I request that we get a rules spoiler with everything's order of operations? Like is population growth before or after other calculations? An idea of that stuff might be present in the rules already but it would be nice to have it on one place.

I would like to do my own calculations, both so that I have a better idea of what's happening and to make the game easier to run.
This is appreciated.
Good idea, I'll get one out soon, but probably forget something. For now, population growth happens near the end of the turn, after people work and eat, but before new soldiers take themselves out of the picture.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Nirur Torir on March 21, 2023, 06:46:33 pm
Spoiler: Turn Order (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Egan_BW on March 21, 2023, 08:07:28 pm
Much thanks, that will be useful. <3
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: IronyOwl on March 21, 2023, 08:59:31 pm
Neat. I'll place it on the fork at Tile 2.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Toaster on March 22, 2023, 01:30:58 pm
I assume we'll all be posting turns at once?  What happens when we're potentially attacking each other?  Like if Player A has the order "Attack B's army on that hill" while B has "Retreat off the hill back toward the city".  Is there a unified resolution in that case?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Initializing
Post by: Nirur Torir on March 22, 2023, 02:37:21 pm
I assume we'll all be posting turns at once?
Yes. Turns are assumed to occur simultaneously. In the event of conflicting military orders, like intercepting an army, I'll determine what happens based on both common sense "what should happen" and roll a dice, biased towards an outcome favorable to whoever has the strategically fastest army.

I'm thinking that I might want plants, trolls, and standard elf cavalry to all move at the same base strategic speed, modifying it more by heavy foot men-at-arms or having army logistics wagons.
But it's also tempting to make the plants and trolls research ways to move faster. I'll have to think about this.


Quote
What happens when we're potentially attacking each other?  Like if Player A has the order "Attack B's army on that hill" while B has "Retreat off the hill back toward the city".  Is there a unified resolution in that case?
If they start the turn next to each other, there would likely be a lower intensity battle while B plays a fighting retreat.
If Player A is further away, then player B should be able to get away without making contact, unless A has strategically faster units who can reasonably slow B down and I think A wants to press the attack (IE, Attack That Army vs Capture That Hill).


Edit: Before battle begins, players with generals will get the chance to decide on their tactics through PM. Players with explorers might, while players with neither are unlikely to get a special tactics decision round and should be careful to give good orders beforehand.

Regarding strategic speed, I think I'll have troll/plant light infantry (eg, spearmen with just spears, archers with just bows) move at the same strategic speed as normal light/medium infantry (eg, spearmen with leather armor and wooden shields, archers with leather armor), while troll/plant medium and heavy infantry (eg, spearmen with metal armor, archers with spears) move at the same strategic speed as normal heavy infantry.
In general, light cavalry should be the only cavalry to get a strategic speed boost.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Game Start
Post by: Nirur Torir on March 24, 2023, 02:20:53 pm
Game start.
You'll get your maps when you build a unit.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Game Start
Post by: Criptfeind on March 24, 2023, 04:24:59 pm
Sure. I can do a turn like this. Here's my stab at a at least somewhat organized turn.

Population: 10,000 (+10 Labor)
Labor Pool: 0
City Buildings: NA
Technology: Praise the Sun
Stocks: 10 labor 2 wood
Moral: 5

Work:
1 Hills: +1 Food +1 Wool -1 Labor
4 River Forest: +2 Food +1 Wood -1 Labor
5 River Plains: +3 Food -1 Labor
12 River Forest: +2 Food +1 Wood -1 Labor
13 River Forest: +2 Food +1 Wood -1 Labor

Stocks: 5 labor 10 food 1 Wool 5 Wood

Construct:
Shrine: -2 Wood -2 Labor +200 labor pool
Hall of Learning: -2 Wood -2 Labor +200 labor pool

Craft:
1 Clothing: -1 Wool +1 Clothing +100 labor pool

Stocks: 10 food 1 Wood 1 Clothing

Consume&Moral:
Population consumes 10 food
Population consumes 1 clothing for +1 moral
Population utilizes 1 spiritual luxury for +1 moral
Governor bonus gives +1 moral

Civilian moral is 8

Population growth: 7%(I'm not sure if you wanted us to do this part or for you to calculate it)
Population: 10700
Labor pool: 500+700=1200

Military:
NA

Status:
Population: 10700
Labor Pool: 1200
City Buildings: Shrine. Hall of Learning
Technology: Praise the Sun
Stocks: 1 wood
Moral: 8
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Game Start
Post by: Toaster on March 24, 2023, 04:31:04 pm
How much are you expecting in a turn?  Like, I had split up my labor ahead of time


...but if you want a big meaty block of text like above I can do that as well.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Game Start
Post by: Criptfeind on March 24, 2023, 04:32:37 pm
That said, I think we might benefit from another thread specifically for turn posts to make sure that relevant mechanical information for making turns is uncluttered by conversations and give the other players a good start where all their information is all in the same place for when they are considering their turn, although it depends on how you feel about such things. Also is there a turn format in particular that you want us to post in? Anything that we make sure to include in our turns? I tried to do a long form turn there that covers all bases but I could do a turn order as short as "Work: 1 4 5 12 13. Make: Shrine, Hall of learning, 1 Clothing. Consume: 1 Clothing" which arguably gets across all the relevant information. And obviously there's a lot of middle ground between those two.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Game Start
Post by: Nirur Torir on March 24, 2023, 06:03:12 pm
Something like Toaster's is enough, I don't want to scare anyone away, but a long form like Cripfeind's is preferred. It cuts down from errors on my end, makes turns easier to run, and makes sure we're both on the same page with exactly what you want done.

For example, I assume Toaster wants to immediately use the clothes he's making. That's easy enough. But what if he had something more rare, and wanted to save it until he could get enough morale to boost production for a turn? I'd have to either go back and fix the turn later, or if I didn't notice before writing it up, delay the turn to ask.

New population doesn't get added into the bonus labor pool immediately, the turn order reference will be updated to show this. It will also show that the bonus production from morale uses the end of last turn's morale.

Game thread coming soon.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: IronyOwl on March 24, 2023, 06:44:19 pm
Are buildings usable on the same turn they're produced?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Game Start
Post by: Egan_BW on March 24, 2023, 06:49:45 pm
Spoiler: Starting position (click to show/hide)

Turn being worked on. Pretty sure I didn't forget anything but if I did it can be re-added easily enough.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Nirur Torir on March 24, 2023, 07:02:12 pm
Are buildings usable on the same turn they're produced?
Generally no, but I'll allow storage buildings to be used immediately.

Clothes, you can start distributing as they're made. Spears, you can rotate who's practicing with the first ones. An incomplete windmill, not so much.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Game Start
Post by: Toaster on March 24, 2023, 07:25:39 pm
Something like Toaster's is enough, I don't want to scare anyone away, but a long form like Cripfeind's is preferred. It cuts down from errors on my end, makes turns easier to run, and makes sure we're both on the same page with exactly what you want done.

For example, I assume Toaster wants to immediately use the clothes he's making. That's easy enough. But what if he had something more rare, and wanted to save it until he could get enough morale to boost production for a turn? I'd have to either go back and fix the turn later, or if I didn't notice before writing it up, delay the turn to ask.

Cool.  I'm fully on board with a fuller post- I just wanted my intent out already to cover the "don't study everyone else's turn before posting yours" bits.  I'll either do a fuller block or maybe start quoting existing status blocks.   (And fluff!)
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: crazyabe on March 24, 2023, 07:46:08 pm
Bah if your windmill isn’t quite done that just leaves it as a manual mill.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Toaster on March 24, 2023, 07:59:56 pm
I guess that makes it a...

...wind-mill.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Egan_BW on March 24, 2023, 08:41:43 pm
Makes labor plan, sees that it is good, writes flavor text.

Realizes that I'm spending 3 labor to have a surplus of 5 food as a luxury, when I could use 2 labor to make a shrine and have +1 luxury PERMANENTLY.


huh guess I'll have to rewrite this shit.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Egan_BW on March 24, 2023, 09:22:45 pm
Spoiled for size, feel free to peek.
Spoiler: action! (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Gruggus (click to show/hide)

Hope this doesn't hit the character limit. I'll likely have less flavor text to add in the future, but it's a fun challenge to add it for each item for now.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Egan_BW on March 24, 2023, 09:24:44 pm
Are buildings usable on the same turn they're produced?
Generally no, but I'll allow storage buildings to be used immediately.

Clothes, you can start distributing as they're made. Spears, you can rotate who's practicing with the first ones. An incomplete windmill, not so much.

Oh right, that means no spirituality income for me yet. I'll change that.
You too, cryptfriend.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Criptfeind on March 24, 2023, 09:49:21 pm
Right. Can we get a confirmation on if shrines do or don't function the turn they are made? I wasn't sure but I figured that you wouldn't be able to do labor in buildings your building that turn because of order of operations, but wasn't sure since the shrine doesn't seem to take labor and the consumption of luxury goods and changing of moral seems to happen after or between turns?

Also are you able to use irrigation on the same turn that you make it? Since it doesn't take resources to irrigate, maybe? But unsure and also Toaster did his turn assuming you can't I think.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Egan_BW on March 24, 2023, 10:01:12 pm
I guess my brain constructed a memory saying that I get the yield of irrigation the same turn from the fact that I CAN spend wood and stone the same turn I acquire it.

...Based on the turn order, it seems legit because it's a labor action not using any resources.
And based on the turn order, the shrine question is unanswered.

Guess it doesn't matter for me if irrigation works same turn, I'd just send a mountain Grug to woods instead and wind up the same.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Nirur Torir on March 24, 2023, 10:27:53 pm
Right. Can we get a confirmation on if shrines do or don't function the turn they are made? I wasn't sure but I figured that you wouldn't be able to do labor in buildings your building that turn because of order of operations, but wasn't sure since the shrine doesn't seem to take labor and the consumption of luxury goods and changing of moral seems to happen after or between turns?

Also are you able to use irrigation on the same turn that you make it? Since it doesn't take resources to irrigate, maybe? But unsure and also Toaster did his turn assuming you can't I think.
Shrines do not function the turn they are made.
Most tile improvements do not function the turn they are made.

Sorry for the confusion. You're right that by Rules As Written, they should work when they can slot into the turn order. But that opens a confusing mess of edge cases where some buildings work immediately while others don't, and none of it follows common sense logic, so we'd have to work through and figure it out again repeatedly.

Granaries and Warehouses will work immediately. Resources shouldn't decay instantly, and the decay for unstored goods can reasonably wait until the end of the turn, after they're built, before it happen.
Palisades, Walls, and other such defenses will work immediately. Military battles take place in a special sub-turn after the main turn, which means the walls should be done enough to work.
The only other thing I can see in the current build lists that should do something immediately is the Explorer's Hall's ability to proc an exploration event. Eg, "The new master of the Explorer's Hall reports that he and his family immigrated to the city recently from a village upriver. They left because food was getting scarcer every year, you should look into that before they turn into bandits from necessity."
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: IronyOwl on March 25, 2023, 12:58:14 am
Do walls and palisades stack?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Stirk on March 25, 2023, 02:06:46 am
Do we get any resources for the tile our city is on? Tile 0?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: crazyabe on March 25, 2023, 08:24:39 am
Do walls and palisades stack?
only if you build your palisade on top of your walls, because wooden palisades aren't strong enough to support all that stone.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Criptfeind on March 25, 2023, 08:29:03 am
Shrines do not function the turn they are made.

F. I'll edit that out my turn. No bonus moral for me.

About governors, do they just give their bonus passively? Or do we need to "assign" them to giving their bonus? And when fishing for their "special ability" do we need to assign them to specific tasks and will that stop them from providing their base bonus on the turns that we do make such an assignment? Specific example: If I say that this turn my leader "oversees the construction of the shrine" will that be what I need to do if his special ability is unlocked by overseeing the construction of shrines? And will he still give the +1 moral bonus to my city this turn?

Edit: As I'm writing the flavor text for my turn I'm struck by the fact that "flowers" isn't really type of plant so much as part of most every plant. This is something I intellectually knew, but didn't really consider the implication when I made my civilization that I'd be playing a collection of plant genitalia.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Egan_BW on March 25, 2023, 10:33:25 am
Alright, turn edited so as to not benefit from irrigation immediately. And yet wind up with the exact same numbers in the end. :p

IE, changed the action order a little bit and then reassigned rock gathering grug to wood gathering, and built the shrine out of 2 wood rather than 1 wood 1 stone.

RIP stone gathering flavor text though.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Nirur Torir on March 25, 2023, 01:08:18 pm
Do walls and palisades stack?
No.

Do we get any resources for the tile our city is on? Tile 0?
No.

About governors, do they just give their bonus passively? Or do we need to "assign" them to giving their bonus? And when fishing for their "special ability" do we need to assign them to specific tasks and will that stop them from providing their base bonus on the turns that we do make such an assignment? Specific example: If I say that this turn my leader "oversees the construction of the shrine" will that be what I need to do if his special ability is unlocked by overseeing the construction of shrines? And will he still give the +1 moral bonus to my city this turn?
Governors are pure passives, no need to assign your governor to different places each turn.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Criptfeind on March 25, 2023, 01:09:55 pm
Should I be assigning them to different places each turn to try to find their secret special ability?

Sorry if that's a dumb question :P, but I'm a little bit unclear and didn't want to accidentally potentially miss out.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Nirur Torir on March 25, 2023, 01:20:16 pm
No. If there's no cost to it, then there wouldn't be much point other than being an annoyance.
A governor specialty will be discovered from something you do or something that happens, like establishing your first trade route or having starving bandits attack.

A general question to the players. I haven't planned out leader specialties yet. Do you want me to write them down now, and stick to that, or create them later, when it's interesting to do so? IE, maybe a general does well in a forest battle and gets a specialty for them, a sage rolls well for magic research and becomes a wizard, or you suffer a bad famine and so the governor develops an anti-famine specialty?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Stirk on March 25, 2023, 02:09:15 pm
Creating them later sounds more fun
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Criptfeind on March 25, 2023, 02:11:53 pm
I think dynamically creating them at appropriate moments sounds like what I'd very slightly prefer. Seems like it might be easier to get them and maybe less work for us to try to work out how to get them.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Egan_BW on March 25, 2023, 02:21:47 pm
First sounds theoretically more fair, but the second is more fun and story appropriate, so I prefer that.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: crazyabe on March 25, 2023, 02:32:38 pm
Fun is more important than Fair, make ‘em as needed.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: IronyOwl on March 25, 2023, 05:49:57 pm
Oh right, I forgot I have a governor.

How does the flat morale boost from a governor interact with the diminishing returns of luxury morale boosts?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Criptfeind on March 25, 2023, 06:20:58 pm
How does the "population soft cap" that the town hall mentions work?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Nirur Torir on March 25, 2023, 07:14:31 pm
How does the flat morale boost from a governor interact with the diminishing returns of luxury morale boosts?
Governor boosts are separate, and don't interact with the diminishing returns of luxury goods.

How does the "population soft cap" that the town hall mentions work?
-1% growth after you hit 12,000 or 16,000 population, with an additional -1% growth for every 1000 people. You'll get your full growth from the turn you started before that, even if it's 11,999.
Which means that the Town Hall is another case where a "just in time" building makes a decent amount of sense.
I'm going to label buildings that take effect immediately with a * in the reference post.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Egan_BW on March 25, 2023, 07:46:34 pm
You think it makes sense for me to prioritize clothes and spirituality over spears and research halls?

Also, will revolts from low morale be different due to my democratic nature? I'd think it would lower chances of active rebellion but lowering morale might quickly remove or replace leaders. Assuming that most people can participate in the democracy, which is currently the case but may evolve as the city grows.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Stirk on March 25, 2023, 07:48:12 pm
You think it makes sense for me to prioritize clothes and spirituality over spears and research halls?

Spears help you meet god faster but you need labcoats to do any real research so it is a tossup.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Toaster on March 25, 2023, 08:22:09 pm
I agree with the consensus of "Do it when it sounds Fun and Exciting."

You think it makes sense for me to prioritize clothes and spirituality over spears and research halls?

I really wanted to get rolling on research first, but getting safer on food just makes much more sense.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Egan_BW on March 25, 2023, 08:46:59 pm
True. One more irrigation would let me get 10 food from 3 labor, but maybe I should invest in irrigating everything I can. Being able to get 11 food from 3 labor will be also useful soon.

Sort of annoying that I'll be getting 1 spirituality per turn but needing 1.1. :p
I guess I can use food as a luxury instead for a turn and stock up on spirituality.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: IronyOwl on March 25, 2023, 09:08:52 pm
You think it makes sense for me to prioritize clothes and spirituality over spears and research halls?
No, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it anyway.


Sort of annoying that I'll be getting 1 spirituality per turn but needing 1.1. :p
Presumably this does allow you to use another 0.1 clothes to get that +1, instead of needing 1.1 clothes.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Criptfeind on March 25, 2023, 09:11:07 pm
I'm not sure if this is still possible, but in the previous game we were allowed to fulfill needs for the population partially with one resource and partially with another. IE: In the case of having 1 spirituality and 1 clothing but needing 1.1 of each, we also used a food, which provides .2 luxuries. To make up for the stop gap (9/11 gets spirituality+clothing 1/11 gets spirituality+food 1/11 gets clothing+food), I was going to ask if this was still allowed next turn, since I'll be in the same boat as you then :P.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Egan_BW on March 25, 2023, 09:15:22 pm
Sort of annoying that I'll be getting 1 spirituality per turn but needing 1.1. :p
Presumably this does allow you to use another 0.1 clothes to get that +1, instead of needing 1.1 clothes.

Nah, for a full +2 morale you need your population worth in two separate luxuries. Not sure if +1 can be gotten half and half, like 5 clothes and 6 luxury, but I'd like to shoot for the nice +2.

Bah, but I guess if beggars can't be choosers, I can live with the +1 for a while. It's just a difference of 1% growth. Need 4 luxuries or some outside interference for the good stuff.

At least assuming that the bonus from luxuries resets every turn. I don't remember if that was stated. And I don't think it's stated what our morale starts at either. Maybe we start with 1 morale but luxuries raise it permanently?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Egan_BW on March 25, 2023, 09:16:46 pm
I'm not sure if this is still possible, but in the previous game we were allowed to fulfill needs for the population partially with one resource and partially with another. IE: In the case of having 1 spirituality and 1 clothing but needing 1.1 of each, we also used a food, which provides .2 luxuries. To make up for the stop gap (9/11 gets spirituality+clothing 1/11 gets spirituality+food 1/11 gets clothing+food), I was going to ask if this was still allowed next turn, since I'll be in the same boat as you then :P.

Oh, yeah. Using an extra 1 or 2 food for that would make sense.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Stirk on March 25, 2023, 09:18:54 pm
Completely relevantly what goes into attacking a City?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Criptfeind on March 25, 2023, 09:19:08 pm
Moral is stated in the moral spoiler in post 2 to start at 5. And although you're right its not technically stated anywhere that it decays I think it's a safe bet that it does :P
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: crazyabe on March 25, 2023, 09:21:49 pm
Completely relevantly what goes into attacking a City?
Soldiers and Raiders go in a'takin' a city.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Criptfeind on March 25, 2023, 09:25:55 pm
Bah, but I guess if beggars can't be choosers, I can live with the +1 for a while. It's just a difference of 1% growth.

Yeah. I'm also not sure how much that 1% is really worth. When I first made my turn I thought that the shrine would take effect immediately, which meant I'd be hitting the +10% production mark. Which is certainly worth the effort I put into it. Now that I'm not, and just going to get +1% growth, I am wondering If should be doing things differently. Saving the clothing perhaps? Or attempting to make a clothiers workshop first? On the other hand, next turn I'll be able to hit that 10% mark, which will kick in on turn 3... Hmm. I'm not sure. But frankly it's probably too late too make any changes.

Although when writing this I did notice one thing, short of a event I don't think anyone but me will be hitting the 1.1 requirement next turn. Since everyone started at 10,000 population and the most you can gain on turn one is, afaik, 7%, so the most people can have next turn is 10,700. So at least you should, if I did that logic right, not have to worry about it next turn?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Toaster on March 25, 2023, 09:38:48 pm
More pop growth is always nice, sure, but there's also that looming softcap at 12k.  I'm not sure how that works (maybe we can get some clarification) but it'll slow growth somehow.  The big boost is that 10% production which needs +3 morale off base, needing four luxuries.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Stirk on March 25, 2023, 09:45:51 pm
More pop growth is always nice, sure, but there's also that looming softcap at 12k.  I'm not sure how that works (maybe we can get some clarification) but it'll slow growth somehow.  The big boost is that 10% production which needs +3 morale off base, needing four luxuries.

-1% growth after you hit 12,000 or 16,000 population, with an additional -1% growth for every 1000 people. You'll get your full growth from the turn you started before that, even if it's 11,999.
Which means that the Town Hall is another case where a "just in time" building makes a decent amount of sense.
I'm going to label buildings that take effect immediately with a * in the reference post.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Egan_BW on March 25, 2023, 09:48:49 pm
Not worrying about 1.1 next turn, yes, but turn after that it'll be an issue for me. Unless I go down to 5 morale with its 4% growth, leaving me at 10,900
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Toaster on March 25, 2023, 10:08:02 pm
Spoiler: Toaster can't read (click to show/hide)

Thank you!
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Egan_BW on March 25, 2023, 10:20:25 pm
So, slowed growth after 12 labor, and stopping entirely at 18 labor if you keep up a +2 morale. Though it might slow to a useless crawl before 18.

Not a *huge* incentive to rush town planning. Which is a shame because it's a good flavor opportunity. :p
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Criptfeind on March 26, 2023, 12:38:39 am
Yeah. On further reflection I think I need the 1% growth rate enough to go for it this turn. So if it's not too late I'm going to edit my turn to not consume the clothing, should make the next turn smoother.

Also, for Nirur Torir, how will research work? Well, maybe not exact numbers, but how "hard" is it to get one of the techs? Would putting all 3 dudes into the research hut be likely to give it? Just 2 dudes? What happens if we put too many dudes into research, is it just wasted or does the overspill help in some way?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Nirur Torir on March 26, 2023, 11:58:46 am
Also, will revolts from low morale be different due to my democratic nature? I'd think it would lower chances of active rebellion but lowering morale might quickly remove or replace leaders. Assuming that most people can participate in the democracy, which is currently the case but may evolve as the city grows.
I haven't thought very hard about rebellions. That's probably about the point where you just lost three quarters of your army, some four-armed barbarians razed your colony, and your rival made the friendly trader elf NPCs hate you.
At that point, I don't think voting in new leaders to continue the old system would be enough to mollify your people.

Sort of annoying that I'll be getting 1 spirituality per turn but needing 1.1. :p
I guess I can use food as a luxury instead for a turn and stock up on spirituality.
Error 888 unable to pile religious sermons up in a warehouse error.
You can use 3 partial luxury sources to get +2 morale, such as 1 spirituality, 1 clothing, and 0.2 food for 11,000 people.

At least assuming that the bonus from luxuries resets every turn. I don't remember if that was stated. And I don't think it's stated what our morale starts at either. Maybe we start with 1 morale but luxuries raise it permanently?
No, you'll still be at 5+1(clothes)+1(spirituality)=7 every turn, barring other changes.
If high morale becomes too easy to sustain, I'll stick a (-1 morale above population X) debuff on a building that raises the population cap.

Completely relevantly what goes into attacking a City?
It's about the same as a regular battle, but you'll probably have to deal with militia attrition in the main city hex. A success would hurt their morale, kill people, damage buildings, and steal stuff. If their morale is bad enough, they'll probably lose the game, have people flee, and have their city devolve into a weak NPC town that pays you tribute.
You can more easily raid the surrounding city hexes to keep them from working it, destroy improvements, and steal fewer resources.

So, slowed growth after 12 labor, and stopping entirely at 18 labor if you keep up a +2 morale. Though it might slow to a useless crawl before 18.

Not a *huge* incentive to rush town planning. Which is a shame because it's a good flavor opportunity. :p
I didn't want to cripple the people who don't have it in their tech list this era.

Yeah. On further reflection I think I need the 1% growth rate enough to go for it this turn. So if it's not too late I'm going to edit my turn to not consume the clothing, should make the next turn smoother.

Also, for Nirur Torir, how will research work? Well, maybe not exact numbers, but how "hard" is it to get one of the techs? Would putting all 3 dudes into the research hut be likely to give it? Just 2 dudes? What happens if we put too many dudes into research, is it just wasted or does the overspill help in some way?
You can change it, I haven't started writing the turns yet. I'll write yours last, and try to get the turn out tonight.
Tech labor costs for this era will range from 1, with luck and on an easy tech, to 5 with bad rolls on a hard tech. Overflow will probably go into another random tech, but there's a chance of some other benefit.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Egan_BW on March 26, 2023, 12:36:38 pm
Sort of annoying that I'll be getting 1 spirituality per turn but needing 1.1. :p
I guess I can use food as a luxury instead for a turn and stock up on spirituality.
Error 888 unable to pile religious sermons up in a warehouse error.
You can use 3 partial luxury sources to get +2 morale, such as 1 spirituality, 1 clothing, and 0.2 food for 11,000 people.

You'd need 1 extra food, not 0.2. Extra food is a luxury for 2,000 people while a normal luxury good is enough for 10,000.

Well, unless you'd like to change that rule. It might be easier to count if it's worth the same as other luxuries. :p
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Nirur Torir on March 26, 2023, 01:03:11 pm
I meant 0.2 luxuries from food, which is indeed 1 food.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Nirur Torir on March 26, 2023, 03:22:53 pm
Crazyabe: You can't send your military out of the city, to capture animals or otherwise, while it's training, and you can't use animals the same turn you capture them.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: crazyabe on March 26, 2023, 03:53:52 pm
Adjusted.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Nirur Torir on March 27, 2023, 08:54:50 pm
I was ready to post the turn, but I forgot the world map, which I don't want to rush out tonight, so I'm going to delay the turn again. This isn't dead though.

Crazyabe: You can't work tile 0, giving you a free laborer and only 9 food. Since unit training costs no labor, you have a second extra laborer to assign.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Egan_BW on March 27, 2023, 09:04:58 pm
Will anyone be able to see the world map yet? We didn't start with units, and they can't be sent the turn they're trained.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Stirk on March 27, 2023, 09:07:20 pm
I was ready to post the turn, but I forgot the world map, which I don't want to rush out tonight, so I'm going to delay the turn again. This isn't dead though.

Crazyabe: You can't work tile 0, giving you a free laborer and only 9 food. Since unit training costs no labor, you have a second extra laborer to assign.

Every game that says it isn’t dead dies immediately :(
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Nirur Torir on March 27, 2023, 09:21:55 pm
Will anyone be able to see the world map yet? We didn't start with units, and they can't be sent the turn they're trained.
They're being trained turn 1, now. Once I post turn 1 results it will become turn 2, and they will be trained and ready to scout.

I was ready to post the turn, but I forgot the world map, which I don't want to rush out tonight, so I'm going to delay the turn again. This isn't dead though.

Crazyabe: You can't work tile 0, giving you a free laborer and only 9 food. Since unit training costs no labor, you have a second extra laborer to assign.

Every game that says it isn’t dead dies immediately :(
I want these games to catch back on. I can't let it die before everyone else sees how fun they are, even if I'm slow and only aiming for one turn a week.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: crazyabe on March 27, 2023, 09:31:58 pm
Adjusted. again.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Criptfeind on April 02, 2023, 08:00:41 pm
Just to check in, is this game still not dead?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Nirur Torir on April 02, 2023, 09:07:36 pm
It's still alive. My first try at the map was a demoralizing failure, but the turn is mostly done now.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Egan_BW on April 02, 2023, 09:09:50 pm
Alright. This game is a high-calorie food, so feel free to take some time.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Criptfeind on April 02, 2023, 09:37:55 pm
Fair enough, making an entire map for a game like this seems like an enormous undertaking, so totally understandable if it's taking a bit.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: crazyabe on April 02, 2023, 09:56:18 pm
I think half the issue is making a *coherent* map, where rivers lead from A to B to C and you don't have deserts directly bordering a single tile of ocean bordering a line of forest bordering etc just to fit players in a reasonable space.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Egan_BW on April 03, 2023, 07:51:00 am
The Calamity is an okay excuse for some terrain to not make sense. And then over time its influence can wear off and the normal climate can cause problems for us. :p
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: IronyOwl on April 03, 2023, 02:03:12 pm
If only there were some way to trigger a second calamity to return things to normal...
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Egan_BW on April 03, 2023, 02:30:58 pm
Science Grug Man recommend punching the ground really really really hard.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Stirk on April 03, 2023, 03:00:56 pm
Science Grug Man recommend punching the ground really really really hard.

That is basically how farming works, you are already doing that
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Toaster on April 03, 2023, 04:02:29 pm
If only there were some way to trigger a second calamity to return things to normal...

Truly the Bay12 way.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Nirur Torir on April 03, 2023, 04:23:03 pm
I think half the issue is making a *coherent* map, where rivers lead from A to B to C and you don't have deserts directly bordering a single tile of ocean bordering a line of forest bordering etc just to fit players in a reasonable space.
Most of it is that I have bad time management skills and this game isn't my top priority. I'd hoped it would be easy to get out one turn a week out anyway. Hopefully it will go more smoothly once it all gets started.
I'm happy to see that there's still enthusiasm for it to get properly started.

The Calamity is an okay excuse for some terrain to not make sense. And then over time its influence can wear off and the normal climate can cause problems for us. :p
Well now you're making me feel like I made it too normal and should take another week to re-map it again to look like a proper post-apocalypse. [/joke]
I like how the map came out. It's a bit tricky, but hopefully in a way you'll find fun once you figure it out.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Criptfeind on April 03, 2023, 06:55:53 pm
When does excess population have it's labor added to the bonus pool? I guess I assumed it'd be the same time as normal population adds it's labor to the normal pool, but that doesn't appear to be the case :P. Is it before population growth but after the turn then?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Nirur Torir on April 03, 2023, 07:35:29 pm
When does excess population have it's labor added to the bonus pool? I guess I assumed it'd be the same time as normal population adds it's labor to the normal pool, but that doesn't appear to be the case :P. Is it before population growth but after the turn then?
Originally, yes.
But you're right. Not only does new population growth to 11,000 immediately add a new labor unit, but changing it will simplify the process to avoid mistakes.

I'll change it. You have 11 labor for the turn.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Criptfeind on April 03, 2023, 08:10:51 pm
Ironically not a good thing for me probably since I'm still at a fairly low efficiency per labor point in the game, I might have been better off keeping my mouth shut and cashing in the bonus population next turn :P. But I think I do like it this way overall more.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Criptfeind on April 04, 2023, 09:07:57 am
How does the bonus productivity from moral work exactly? Might come up next turn. Both in general but also a few specific questions I had (assuming I have a right general idea of how it works, no guarantee :P) Does it mean I can produce 1/10th of resources, and can they be carried forward into future turns? For people that turn one resource into another do they need higher inputs? Like if a clothier makes 1.1 clothing does that cost 1 or 1.1 wool? Does it effect income from non labor sources, like shrines? If I can make .1 resources can I use .5 food as a luxury for 1000 population?

Or maybe I'm just thinking about it wrong and it works in some totally other way.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Nirur Torir on April 04, 2023, 11:47:15 am
How does the bonus productivity from moral work exactly? Might come up next turn. Both in general but also a few specific questions I had (assuming I have a right general idea of how it works, no guarantee :P) Does it mean I can produce 1/10th of resources, and can they be carried forward into future turns? For people that turn one resource into another do they need higher inputs? Like if a clothier makes 1.1 clothing does that cost 1 or 1.1 wool? Does it effect income from non labor sources, like shrines? If I can make .1 resources can I use .5 food as a luxury for 1000 population?

Or maybe I'm just thinking about it wrong and it works in some totally other way.
That gives us problems like potentially having x.9 stone and then a morale event bonus disappears, leaving you sitting on an unusable extra stone, in addition to that added crafter complexity.
The way it works: I have a section of the turn where I have usable labor separate from food and luxuries needed. Having a 10% production boost will cause every 10k pop to give an extra usable labor, with no increase to food and luxury costs.
I think I want to keep it simple and always round down, such that 19k pop with +10% will always give only 1 extra labor.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Criptfeind on April 04, 2023, 12:05:44 pm
Yeah, that makes sense, fair enough.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Egan_BW on April 04, 2023, 02:04:24 pm
Could you clarify mechanics for exploring / moving armies? Should I just give them a direction to go in? With a move of 3 can I explore 3 tiles, or do I only thoroughly explore the one I end my turn on? Or if the mv stat only for tactical combat, and the number of tiles I can move is different?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: IronyOwl on April 04, 2023, 02:19:34 pm
When does excess population have it's labor added to the bonus pool? I guess I assumed it'd be the same time as normal population adds it's labor to the normal pool, but that doesn't appear to be the case :P. Is it before population growth but after the turn then?
Originally, yes.
But you're right. Not only does new population growth to 11,000 immediately add a new labor unit, but changing it will simplify the process to avoid mistakes.

I'll change it. You have 11 labor for the turn.
So we calculate pop growth and bonus labor pools, and then use those to produce the luxuries needed to get that pop growth in the first place?

EDIT: I'm definitely lost, does this mean food and luxury upkeeps increase immediately/retroactively as well?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Nirur Torir on April 04, 2023, 02:29:32 pm
Could you clarify mechanics for exploring / moving armies? Should I just give them a direction to go in? With a move of 3 can I explore 3 tiles, or do I only thoroughly explore the one I end my turn on? Or if the mv stat only for tactical combat, and the number of tiles I can move is different?
There's some RNG involved, and trying to explore mountains will be much slower than following a river through grasslands.
Mv is indeed for tactical combat. Standard units move at the same strategic speed, and differences will be noted.
General orders to explore are fine. "Follow the river," "explore east," or "start south and explore counter-clockwise around my city" are all valid orders.

When does excess population have it's labor added to the bonus pool? I guess I assumed it'd be the same time as normal population adds it's labor to the normal pool, but that doesn't appear to be the case :P. Is it before population growth but after the turn then?
Originally, yes.
But you're right. Not only does new population growth to 11,000 immediately add a new labor unit, but changing it will simplify the process to avoid mistakes.

I'll change it. You have 11 labor for the turn.
So we calculate pop growth and bonus labor pools, and then use those to produce the luxuries needed to get that pop growth in the first place?

EDIT: I'm definitely lost, does this mean food and luxury upkeeps increase immediately/retroactively as well?
No, my bad. It's immediate relative to my former plans of "new growth doesn't give bonus labor." They will be born or settled and give bonus labor at the end of the turn, to be used on your next turn.

Nothing you do during your turn will instantly give you labor to use and include in that plan, unless it's very clearly noted, like a genie giving you a wish to cast haste at a single time of your choosing.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Criptfeind on April 04, 2023, 02:54:32 pm
Nothing you do during your turn will instantly give you labor to use and include in that plan, unless it's very clearly noted, like a genie giving you a wish to cast haste at a single time of your choosing.

Good to know, I was going to wait and ask about this and my caste system labor pool bonuses when it came up.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Egan_BW on April 05, 2023, 02:57:08 pm
Error in my turn, you have me as having construction researched and not farming.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Egan_BW on April 05, 2023, 03:53:26 pm
Ok and me and the others really shouldn't have labor bonus already, because that increases before population growth.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Nirur Torir on April 05, 2023, 04:02:52 pm
Crazyabe, your pens are just normal pastures. They cost 3 labor and 1 wood, just like pastures.
The beasts you're hunting for will allow a pasture to work on desert. They'll make the tile produce 2 food when worked, but they can't be placed next to each other, as the beasts need more space to roam.
I'll confirm that you are allowed to build the pasture and try to catch them in the same turn, as you are doing.
I was going to tell you this as once you found one, but calling it a pen confused the issue and needs to be clarified.

Stirk, the Hall of Learning only has enough space for 3 laborers.

Error in my turn, you have me as having construction researched and not farming.
Fixed now. I changed it in one file and then used the unfixed one for the turn.
The way bonus labor is calculated has been changed, so now it increases after growth.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Stirk on April 05, 2023, 04:10:54 pm
So the hall can contain 3000 people but not 4000. Got it.

Fixed, have them making cloths instead.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Egan_BW on April 05, 2023, 04:30:45 pm
Why? It makes more sense to increase the bonus before pop, since the bonus represents the work being done by the odd people. This way is more confusing for me because otherwise people arriving during the turn can't work.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Criptfeind on April 05, 2023, 04:38:56 pm
I think the time when it'd make the most sense for bonus labor to be calculated is for it to be done at the same time as normal labor produces it's labor. Which I think is where it is now effectively?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Nirur Torir on April 05, 2023, 04:45:00 pm
Why? It makes more sense to increase the bonus before pop, since the bonus represents the work being done by the odd people. This way is more confusing for me because otherwise people arriving during the turn can't work.
If your population increases to 11,000 during your turn, you'll still have 10 labor for the turn. When I write the update and say you officially have 11,000 population, I'll say that you have 11 labor.

If you have 8/10 bonus labor and your population increases from 10,800 to 11,200, shouldn't an update say that you now have 11 labor and 8+2/10 bonus labor, giving you that 12th laborer, if we want them to start working at the same time?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Egan_BW on April 05, 2023, 04:58:30 pm
I dunno but I already done two turns this way and I don't wanna redo stuff :(
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Criptfeind on April 05, 2023, 05:15:48 pm
Honestly I think it's sorta academic anyway. Your turn is still functional for input isn't it?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Stirk on April 05, 2023, 06:19:18 pm
Why? It makes more sense to increase the bonus before pop, since the bonus represents the work being done by the odd people. This way is more confusing for me because otherwise people arriving during the turn can't work.

If that is just a bonus for the odd people doesn’t that mean 99.9% of our workforce do nothing?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: crazyabe on April 05, 2023, 06:53:25 pm
Crazyabe, your pens are just normal pastures. They cost 3 labor and 1 wood, just like pastures.
The beasts you're hunting for will allow a pasture to work on desert. They'll make the tile produce 2 food when worked, but they can't be placed next to each other, as the beasts need more space to roam.
I'll confirm that you are allowed to build the pasture and try to catch them in the same turn, as you are doing.
I was going to tell you this as once you found one, but calling it a pen confused the issue and needs to be clarified.
Changed.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: crazyabe on April 09, 2023, 09:26:40 pm
if you are having image host issues, might I suggest getting a discord account and setting up a [personal] discord server to let them handle hosting your images? its free, images are there until you delete them, and so far discord doesn't care how many images you upload to their servers- so long as each image is under 8mb an image.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: IronyOwl on April 09, 2023, 10:49:49 pm
Quick famine indeed! Fortunately not dangerous this early on, just costly. Moreso for some than others, heh heh heh.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Criptfeind on April 09, 2023, 11:25:13 pm
Is bonus labor only kept track of by the per 100 population? IE: My 235 giving +2/10 instead of +235/1000?

Quick famine indeed! Fortunately not dangerous this early on, just costly. Moreso for some than others, heh heh heh.

Yeah, yikes! It's quite disruptive to get this event so early when I'm already on inefficient food sources, basically going to eat my whole turn to just tread water here. If it'd had waited like 2 more turns it'd be a lot less bad.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Toaster on April 09, 2023, 11:38:27 pm
I'm at the point where I have good typical food production, but I don't really have any depth.  That granary can't come quick enough.

Nirur:  I know there's some random component to research, but what happens if you far overshoot the requirement for gaining a tech?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Egan_BW on April 10, 2023, 03:28:52 pm
Hmm. Why can't Palisades / Walls be built where there's an existing improvement? They protect from raiders, but my most valuable hexes which I want to protect (besides my city) will be the ones with improvements. You can wall off your mountain tiles which give you nothing but 1 stone, but you can't protect your mine?

Bah, never mind, they aren't mutually exclusive, it just doesn't say that in their description.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Nirur Torir on April 10, 2023, 04:27:53 pm
Crazyabe: Resource bookkeeping error fixed, thank you for catching that.

Is bonus labor only kept track of by the per 100 population? IE: My 235 giving +2/10 instead of +235/1000?
Correct.

Nirur:  I know there's some random component to research, but what happens if you far overshoot the requirement for gaining a tech?
If you overshoot it far enough, your scientists will probably either start working on building/crafting whatever they researched, or partially overflow into another tech.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Toaster on April 10, 2023, 05:27:21 pm
Nirur:  I know there's some random component to research, but what happens if you far overshoot the requirement for gaining a tech?
If you overshoot it far enough, your scientists will probably either start working on building/crafting whatever they researched, or partially overflow into another tech.

Okay.  I wanted to be sure there wasn't a huge risk of overcommitting on tech given the two bonuses I have.  Are they additive or multiplicative?  Will I be told if the overshoot effect triggers, I assume?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Nirur Torir on April 10, 2023, 05:48:28 pm
Okay.  I wanted to be sure there wasn't a huge risk of overcommitting on tech given the two bonuses I have.  Are they additive or multiplicative?  Will I be told if the overshoot effect triggers, I assume?
I'll leave it unspecified on whether it's additive or multiplicative.
You'll be told if it happens.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Nirur Torir on April 11, 2023, 08:57:48 pm
Maps have been edited in.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Egan_BW on April 11, 2023, 09:33:42 pm
Bluh, I actually thought that the grey tiles surrounding me were "unknown", but they're mountains.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Toaster on April 11, 2023, 09:34:30 pm
i am the king of mountains
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Egan_BW on April 11, 2023, 11:24:15 pm
Lies. Mountains are just big piles of rocks, and Gruggi are best at lifting rocks. Therefore Gruggi are lords of mountains.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: IronyOwl on April 12, 2023, 12:07:07 am
Enjoy your foodless stone quarries, nerds.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Criptfeind on April 12, 2023, 01:10:22 am
Ending on xx96 pop feels bad, rip that like 9% of a labor. :P
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Stirk on April 12, 2023, 02:49:44 am
In what ways can I interact with the little Grugg village?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Nirur Torir on April 12, 2023, 02:15:12 pm
In what ways can I interact with the little Grugg village?
The standard ways are raids, threats, and gifts, but there's some room to be creative with diplomacy. How would you like to interact with them?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: crazyabe on April 12, 2023, 02:25:57 pm
Might I suggest sending them a fruit basket?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Stirk on April 12, 2023, 03:01:09 pm
In what ways can I interact with the little Grugg village?
The standard ways are raids, threats, and gifts, but there's some room to be creative with diplomacy. How would you like to interact with them?

Nothing yet, just planning for the future
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Criptfeind on April 19, 2023, 09:37:24 pm
I don't think I get the 10% bonus to labor this turn right? Copy past error from previous turn or am I missing something?

Also yay, new turn.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: IronyOwl on April 19, 2023, 10:09:09 pm
To build more spider ranches, do I need to spend a turn (and 1 food) producing spiders instead of silk? Can this be done simultaneously with building the new ranch?

Also you have me at needing 1.3 luxuries but I think I only need 1.2, since I have 12 pops +1 labor from industriousness.

EDIT: Also, can I make clothes out of leather?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Egan_BW on April 20, 2023, 12:54:46 pm
Just to confirm, it wouldn't work to have +2 morale from:
- 2 spirituality
- 0.4 clothing
(for a pop of 12,000)

or such?

Also, sort of a vague question but would it likely be tactically advantageous to field 1 speargruggi unit with 1 archer unit rather than 2 speargruggi? 15% melee damage is a little more palpable than whatever advantage there is to having a mix of shock and projectile.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Criptfeind on April 20, 2023, 01:22:31 pm
Also on animal taming, if we don't have any any animals to make the animal producing pastures, can we add them in later to allow that pasture to produce animals?

Edit: I did my turn under the assumption that I only have 12 labor, if I'm mistaken I'll go back in and edit it to use the extra labor.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Nirur Torir on April 20, 2023, 03:15:21 pm
I don't think I get the 10% bonus to labor this turn right? Copy past error from previous turn or am I missing something?

Also yay, new turn.
Corrected, only 12.

To build more spider ranches, do I need to spend a turn (and 1 food) producing spiders instead of silk? Can this be done simultaneously with building the new ranch?

Also you have me at needing 1.3 luxuries but I think I only need 1.2, since I have 12 pops +1 labor from industriousness.

EDIT: Also, can I make clothes out of leather?
Yes and yes.
Corrected. 11 food, 1.2 luxury need.
I feel like I shouldn't allow clothing to be made from leather, for the balance of you needing to trade for wool, but I can't actually justify not allowing your pre-metal civilization to make clothes from animal furs and hides. Go ahead and make clothes from leather, at the same material:clothing ratio as wool.

Just to confirm, it wouldn't work to have +2 morale from:
- 2 spirituality
- 0.4 clothing
(for a pop of 12,000)

or such?

Also, sort of a vague question but would it likely be tactically advantageous to field 1 speargruggi unit with 1 archer unit rather than 2 speargruggi? 15% melee damage is a little more palpable than whatever advantage there is to having a mix of shock and projectile.
Correct, you need a variety of luxuries, and anything past 1.2 spirituality will almost always be wasted for a workforce of 12.
I don't want to answer such questions. If you want a simulated battle, you'll need to either train them yourself and have them spend the turn wargaming, or meet another player and trust them enough to not betray you during a fake fight.

Also on animal taming, if we don't have any any animals to make the animal producing pastures, can we add them in later to allow that pasture to produce animals?
Yes. It'll be a free change-over, but if you want the pasture to make use of the special animal immediately, you'll have to have them ready to put in the pasture right at the start of the turn.
I think I'll have to limit animals in warehouses so you can't have a warehouse packed with 4 unicorns, 2 phoenixes, and 2 krakens, to swap out for their resources. I'll probably charge 1 food/turn/animal not on a pasture or in a special storage ranch, but that's not a final ruling.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: IronyOwl on April 20, 2023, 05:17:08 pm
So we can (in theory) have 20 bears stockpiled in one warehouse...


Also, sort of a vague question but would it likely be tactically advantageous to field 1 speargruggi unit with 1 archer unit rather than 2 speargruggi? 15% melee damage is a little more palpable than whatever advantage there is to having a mix of shock and projectile.
I don't want to answer such questions. If you want a simulated battle, you'll need to either train them yourself and have them spend the turn wargaming, or meet another player and trust them enough to not betray you during a fake fight.
Wait we can do that? I guess that's instead of exploring, but still! Seems not all research comes from the learning hall!
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: crazyabe on April 20, 2023, 06:32:46 pm
So we can (in theory) have 20 bears stockpiled in one warehouse...

Only if you remember to store them flat-packed!
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Criptfeind on April 20, 2023, 10:06:19 pm
I think I'll have to limit animals in warehouses so you can't have a warehouse packed with 4 unicorns, 2 phoenixes, and 2 krakens, to swap out for their resources. I'll probably charge 1 food/turn/animal not on a pasture or in a special storage ranch, but that's not a final ruling.

Probably a good idea. I think without that pastures sorta serve as a better alternative to the granary, which is probably not the intention.

Although without that and now with leather being able to be used to make clothing, I'm going to need to consider swapping my research around. Might not make sense to go for animal husbandry if I can get by on leather clothing and extra hunting houses... Hmm. I'll have to think about it a little bit.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Criptfeind on April 21, 2023, 07:21:43 am
Whoops, realized an obvious issue with my turn. With the bonus labor I was going to hit 1.3 luxuries required next turn, making food luxury unaffordable as a gap filler for spirituality. Swapped to building the Praise the Sun building, although afaik it's not noted what its name is anywhere? I called it solar shrine, but will swap it to whatever when required.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: IronyOwl on April 21, 2023, 11:42:08 pm
Whoops, miscalculated my labor. Shuffled to account for phantom elves promising to be in two places at once, and also the realization that my food issues are easier solved with fishing than ranching and hunting. Also rephrased the bumper crop as less food required rather than more food produced, to line up with GM phrasing.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Egan_BW on April 21, 2023, 11:44:09 pm
Should probably invest in more irrigation sooner than I'm doing. But bare minimum defenses first.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: IronyOwl on April 22, 2023, 12:05:31 am
Defenses? What are those?

Bah, it's probably not important. What's the worst that could be lurking out there?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Stirk on April 22, 2023, 12:07:53 am
Imagine not exploring and getting fancy wood lol
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Egan_BW on April 22, 2023, 12:15:48 am
Defenses? What are those?

Bah, it's probably not important. What's the worst that could be lurking out there?

...four armed raiders?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Stirk on April 22, 2023, 12:17:47 am

...four armed raiders?

Forearms are among the least threatening of body parts
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: IronyOwl on April 22, 2023, 12:20:45 am
Imagine not exploring and getting fancy wood lol
I have regular wood coming out my ears, who needs fancy wood?

I am incredibly jealous that I don't have fancy wood
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Egan_BW on April 22, 2023, 12:22:37 am
Nobody show the elves what a Gruggan bow looks like.

...It's an uprooted sapling with a fluffbeast wool string.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Nirur Torir on April 22, 2023, 08:10:09 am
So we can (in theory) have 20 bears stockpiled in one warehouse...
Not quite. It's 20 cavalry charges worth of bears.

Whoops, realized an obvious issue with my turn. With the bonus labor I was going to hit 1.3 luxuries required next turn, making food luxury unaffordable as a gap filler for spirituality. Swapped to building the Praise the Sun building, although afaik it's not noted what its name is anywhere? I called it solar shrine, but will swap it to whatever when required.
That is now it's official name, because I forget to name it.

Defenses? What are those?
Defenses, noun.
The idea that when a barbarian catapult lobs rocks into your city, it will knock a hole into a strategically positioned warehouse, releasing 20 cavalry charges worth of suddenly very angry bears.

Nobody show the elves what a Gruggan bow looks like.

...It's an uprooted sapling with a fluffbeast wool string.
You're going to give the elves smug-superiority-overload induced strokes. That's an OP cheese strategy, please don't.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Egan_BW on April 22, 2023, 12:53:50 pm
They can feel free to feel smug, the Gruggi will themselves feel superior and accomplished using bows with unnecessarily heavy draw weights. They mainly only use the things as a way to work out and shooting things is incidental.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Stirk on April 22, 2023, 01:05:00 pm
They can feel free to feel smug, the Gruggi will themselves feel superior and accomplished using bows with unnecessarily heavy draw weights. They mainly only use the things as a way to work out and shooting things is incidental.

Shooting things is never incidental. The Gruggi will pay for this heresy.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Egan_BW on April 22, 2023, 01:13:26 pm
do you even lift
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Stirk on April 22, 2023, 01:15:43 pm
do you even lift

I'm American so I elevator
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Criptfeind on April 27, 2023, 12:40:07 pm
I'm a bit worried about this game, I know this is a slow burning game, but 8 days is a while, especially since as far as I can see toaster hasn't posted anything for about a week anywhere on bay12. Although he has been online so... You still around and able to play Toaster?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: IronyOwl on April 27, 2023, 01:47:16 pm
Probably stalled out trying to decide if it was worth it to fight against his dismal morale or just accept 0% population growth.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Criptfeind on April 28, 2023, 09:25:00 am
Yeah, could be, I gota admit I dragged my feet a little bit when I had the double famine :P But in the end it sorta did make my turn less complicated to actually do, and feels like it's probably the same with the moral loss. More worrying to me is that he's not posted on bay12 at all during the past week. Maybe Nirur can send him a PM or something to check if he's still around?

Edit: Although now I'm a bit worried that Nirur hasn't been on bay12 for like a week either, so maybe rip?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Toaster on May 02, 2023, 09:43:16 pm
I had half my turn typed out and got distracted; that's my fault!  Still interested, and going to finish it now.

Feel free to PM me if I'm behind.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: crazyabe on May 02, 2023, 09:52:49 pm
I had half my turn typed out and got distracted; that's my fault!  Still interested, and going to finish it now.

Feel free to PM me if I'm behind.
Nirur hasn't been on since April 23rd or so, so its probably fine for you to post now, though if they don't come back for some odd reason it'll be a bit sad.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Nirur Torir on May 02, 2023, 09:59:48 pm
I'm lazy, not dead, and this isn't either.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: crazyabe on May 02, 2023, 10:08:31 pm
'_' of course the moment I bring up them not being on they show up...
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Criptfeind on May 03, 2023, 06:00:05 am
A quick note on your turn Toaster on what I noticed, you need 1.2 moral for luxuries, which means the 1.1 clothing and 1 spirituality you are getting is only enough for +1 moral. You also have that 1 food left over. I think it's very up in the air if food as luxuries are worth it but you could consume 1.2 clothing, 1 spirituality and 1 food for +2 moral. In your case, because of the moral negative event, that's probably more "worth it" then normal since not only will that extra moral give you 2% more pop growth (instead of the normal 1% per moral) but also saves you from loosing a labor to negative moral. If you think that's not worth it, you only need to consume .2 clothing to get to the +1 moral when combined with spirituality.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Toaster on May 03, 2023, 08:08:20 am
Good catch; I spent the extra luxury, because I'd really like to keep a little food buffer.  More will come later but I feel the difference between 0 and 1 extra food could save my butt later.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Egan_BW on May 03, 2023, 11:55:42 am
Storing food? What sort of strange sorcery is this!?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Nirur Torir on May 03, 2023, 02:25:33 pm
'_' of course the moment I bring up them not being on they show up...
I check the forums regularly, I just don't usually log in.

Good catch; I spent the extra luxury, because I'd really like to keep a little food buffer.  More will come later but I feel the difference between 0 and 1 extra food could save my butt later.
That's not enough. Your 1 spirituality is only enough for 10,000 people.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Toaster on May 03, 2023, 08:29:49 pm
Well poop.  Guess I don't get it then... will need to research Ceremonial Burial sooner.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Criptfeind on May 04, 2023, 11:27:50 am
Guess I don't get it then... will need to research Ceremonial Burial sooner.

Maybe I can try to explain, if you don't get it. Sorry in advanced if this isn't what you meant by you not getting it. Or if it's a bad explanation :P

I think the easiest way to think of it is as each 1000 population as a individual person, who you give a individual luxury too. Once every individual has a luxury, then you get +1 moral, when every individual has 2 luxuries, you get +2 moral.

So think of it like this, you have 12 people (11000 pop and a bonus from the labor who counts as an extra 1000 pop just for this turn.)

Guy 1
Guy 2
Guy 3
Guy 4
Guy 5
Guy 6
Guy 7
Guy 8
Guy 9
Guy 10
Guy 11
Guy 12

First, you're producing 1 spirituality, each person wants .1 spirituality, so you can give it to 10 people.

Guy 1: Spirituality
Guy 2: Spirituality
Guy 3: Spirituality
Guy 4: Spirituality
Guy 5: Spirituality
Guy 6: Spirituality
Guy 7: Spirituality
Guy 8: Spirituality
Guy 9: Spirituality
Guy 10: Spirituality
Guy 11:
Guy 12:

As you can see, you're missing 2 people, so this doesn't give any extra moral. However, you can fill in those gaps. The easiest way to do it would be clothing, each person wants .1 clothing, so you use .2 clothing to do something like this

Guy 1: Spirituality
Guy 2: Spirituality
Guy 3: Spirituality
Guy 4: Spirituality
Guy 5: Spirituality
Guy 6: Spirituality
Guy 7: Spirituality
Guy 8: Spirituality
Guy 9: Spirituality
Guy 10: Spirituality
Guy 11: Clothing
Guy 12: Clothing

Now each person has 1 luxury, so you get +1 moral. If you want to go further, you can give out more clothing, spending an extra 1 clothing to go to this state

Guy 1: Spirituality. Clothing
Guy 2: Spirituality. Clothing
Guy 3: Spirituality. Clothing
Guy 4: Spirituality. Clothing
Guy 5: Spirituality. Clothing
Guy 6: Spirituality. Clothing
Guy 7: Spirituality. Clothing
Guy 8: Spirituality. Clothing
Guy 9: Spirituality. Clothing
Guy 10: Spirituality. Clothing
Guy 11: Clothing
Guy 12: Clothing

This is the current state of your turn. But since you can't give 2 of the same luxury to each population, at this point you can't satisfy the needs of guy 11 or 12 by giving out more clothing. So in this state you're still only getting +1 moral, it's just as good as the previous state where you only spent .2 clothing. That's somewhat a waste of clothing, if you didn't want to waste that 1 clothing you can either go back to the previous state, using only .2 clothing. Or you can use an extra food, since .5 food can also be used as a luxury, then you would end up like this

Guy 1: Spirituality. Clothing
Guy 2: Spirituality. Clothing
Guy 3: Spirituality. Clothing
Guy 4: Spirituality. Clothing
Guy 5: Spirituality. Clothing
Guy 6: Spirituality. Clothing
Guy 7: Spirituality. Clothing
Guy 8: Spirituality. Clothing
Guy 9: Spirituality. Clothing
Guy 10: Spirituality. Clothing
Guy 11: Clothing. Food
Guy 12: Clothing. Food

And get +2 moral.

Hopefully that explanation helped? That's how I think of it at least.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Criptfeind on May 09, 2023, 02:15:51 pm
I'm lazy, not dead, and this isn't either.

So, to check in, is this still true? It's been like 3 weeks since the last turn. Which is a heck of a long time, even for a slower burning game.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Nirur Torir on May 09, 2023, 04:32:06 pm
Yeah, turn is 4/6 done.

I took a day to think on a good Exploration Opportunity to proc for Stirk, who already has a fun resource and some neutrals. I have a few more ideas, but I'll outsource the thinking for the future. What resources would people like to see? What Exploration Guild mini-quests or exploration events?

What do players want their magic to do? If I have a good idea of where your magic will be in an age or two, I could spawn something in that line as an exploration reward, like the Transmutating sticks. Something like muscle magic is harder to pin down ideas for.
Where might you want the next age to take your technology? The general idea will be copper age, possibly with simple boats and an early outpost/colony. You've survived the night and are starting to rekindle the spark of learning, and probably looking to find something useful in the remnants of the old world.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Toaster on May 09, 2023, 06:22:34 pm
I think the vision of the ideal Stonulus future is one where magic effectively puts them in a post-scarcity world, leaving them all time to sit around and be thinkers or artists, some sort of idealized Greek state, perhaps.  Obviously that's not wholly feasible in real terms, but that's probably enough of a starting point to get the idea?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Stirk on May 09, 2023, 06:55:40 pm
I think the vision of the ideal Stonulus future is one where magic effectively puts them in a post-scarcity world, leaving them all time to sit around and be thinkers or artists, some sort of idealized Greek state, perhaps.  Obviously that's not wholly feasible in real terms, but that's probably enough of a starting point to get the idea?

Not really helpful for the question of “what should your magic do immediately after the Stone Age?” Unless you have really high hopes for your magical advancement.

I have no idea how any of the behind the scenes stuff works, so it is kinda hard to make practical suggestions. Just give me stuff that is both cooler and better than what everyone else has V_V
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: crazyabe on May 09, 2023, 07:02:03 pm
ah, so Stirk gets Ice magic confirmed?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Egan_BW on May 09, 2023, 07:26:24 pm
Gruggi want to get bigger and stronger. Gruggi want to make friends.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Criptfeind on May 09, 2023, 07:37:17 pm
I want my magic to be that Stirk gets no magic.

On exploration opportunities, I'm not sure I have any great ideas. Just to state the obvious, small bonuses like a bonus to researching certain tech or some resources (luxury or even just a bit of food or an animal or maybe a bonus labor that we don't have to feed for a turn) make sense for your every day exploration stuff. Resources that we can later learn how to exploit and might be a source of tension between players might be of interest, which can be things like resources needed to upkeep rarer units in later ages, or a better site for a outpost.

Some refuges that can be taken in to increase pop by a few hundred could be a thing (maybe a temporary moral negative for rarer races or something).

Moral choices, perhaps travelers in need of help, either with a risky military intervention vs monsters or raiders needed or needing food or other resources. Help them, maybe increases relationship with npc towns later on, maybe does nothing. Or could steal from them for the opposite of that.

Perhaps a few things scattered around could give us a extra technology in the next age (or this one if appropriate).

For technology, supporting larger populations is the most obvious one, I think. I'm not sure really, how close we are, maybe some military technology if we might start fighting. Metal working, obviously... I'm not sure if the idea for food is to make it continually more efficient as ages go or keep it so that around 50% of the population needs to work in food. If it's made more efficient by the addition of higher tier food gathering or processing technologies I think we might eventually need a labor sink, perhaps related to moral or research. It's hard to make suggestions on this specifically I think because it's hard to get the "vibe" of how the economy is suppose to work, right now it's pretty simple, and I'm not sure if it's suppose to get more complicated and decisiony or just stay how it is. Game might get too hard to run and play with too much complications, but also making choices can be fun too.

The ability to recruit more leaders would make sense eventually.

A more serious answer to what I want from my magic... I guess I've not really thought about that. I guess I view it as sorta like a cross between holy magic and a bit of fire magic? More upgrades for the flower society based on their temple or buildings like the solar condenser would be cool. Other things that come to mind, although maybe not all would make sense at the next tech level, would be stuff like a some heals, banishing evil, maybe some buffs for flower paladins, and maybe fire damage... A more specific thing I'd want to see eventually is resistance to fire and/or cold, might make sense as some "inner radiance" where the warming power of the Sun holds off the cold and makes flowers more resistant to heat as they become partially solar beings?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Stirk on May 09, 2023, 08:05:29 pm
Quote
I want my magic to be that Stirk gets no magic.

As long as everyone else’s magic is worse than useless it fits in with my request
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: IronyOwl on May 09, 2023, 10:28:26 pm
I took a day to think on a good Exploration Opportunity to proc for Stirk, who already has a fun resource and some neutrals. I have a few more ideas, but I'll outsource the thinking for the future. What resources would people like to see? What Exploration Guild mini-quests or exploration events?
Magical gems are amazing. They're both magic and shiny. Everything wants them.

Exotic materials are fun. They can do stuff, but they don't have to; just being able to build structures out of petrified dinosaur bones or feed your people monkeys made out of fruit is cool and flavorful.

Cultivatable plants and animals are an odd one. They're a really neat idea, but giving you another option to stock your ranches with is obviously not the same as finding a map tile you can build an outpost on for a specific resource.

Ancient ruins are good exploration incidents. Oh sure, they might just be a normal city with some fancy golems in them. They could also be alien, unsettling places, all wrong angles and baffling proportions, hideous wall carvings hinting at the ruinous secrets buried within their depths.

Wildlife encounters are good for building out the ecosystem and flavor of the surroundings. Note that as an elf player, by "wildlife" I mean tribes or travelers from distant city-states as well. Maybe a small band of dwarves have set up a tiny mine, some troll exiles just want to practice blood sacrifice in peace, or a gaggle of definitely-not-cultists could really use some help prying a stone seal out of the cave they've set up shop in.

What do players want their magic to do? If I have a good idea of where your magic will be in an age or two, I could spawn something in that line as an exploration reward, like the Transmutating sticks. Something like muscle magic is harder to pin down ideas for.
Mutant wildlife. Chimaeric wildlife. Plant monsters. Better crops and livestock (possibly because it's a mutant chimaera of the wrong kingdom for its body plan). Making elves even better Haha not possible.

Where might you want the next age to take your technology? The general idea will be copper age, possibly with simple boats and an early outpost/colony. You've survived the night and are starting to rekindle the spark of learning, and probably looking to find something useful in the remnants of the old world.
Elves are already the best at everything, so we're not that worried about it.


Quote
I want my magic to be that Stirk gets no magic.

As long as everyone else’s magic is worse than useless it fits in with my request
Stirk gets no magic. Everyone else gets magic that's a terrible idea to use.

Everyone but Stirk then tries to use magic to get themselves out of the pit they dug by using magic. I'm not saying the cataclysm wasn't an isolated incident, I'm just saying it takes a lot of work to do that much terraforming.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Egan_BW on May 09, 2023, 10:34:09 pm
Enhanced buffness doesn't really interact with special materials much, but it could help with building projects.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: crazyabe on May 10, 2023, 12:40:14 am
I can see two obvious ways to take my unexplored rune magic, carving it into things, giving me a (reasonably cheap) method of enchanting that may or may not turn such improved equipment into disposable equipment (carving fire runs into a wooden spear eventually causes spontaneous combustion- who’d guess?)- or it could be taken in the direction of Tatooing my people, giving individual military units access to simple magic, but it would have to be done person by person and likely consume (relatively) expensive materials.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Stirk on May 10, 2023, 01:39:26 am
I'm the only one actually exploring right? Therefore exploration rewards should be stuff Stirk likes. Caches of weapons, bushes that grow handguns, lands where it rains bullets from the sky, bats that excrete gunpowder, 3d printers filled with firearm designs.

Not like anyone else is going to get them anyway.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: IronyOwl on May 10, 2023, 01:44:31 pm
I will build a military and start exploring with it eventually. I just need to build and research every other single thing I'm capable of first.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Egan_BW on May 10, 2023, 02:03:11 pm
I rushed that shit so hard that my explorers don't even have pointy sticks.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Criptfeind on May 10, 2023, 02:08:34 pm
I rushed that shit so hard that my explorers don't even have pointy sticks.

This turned out to probably be the play I guess since afaik no ones run into a combat situation in exploration, so people who waited for weapons basically were just leaving loot on the table. But given that we didn't know that at first and the penalty for sending unarmed dudes into combat is a bit unclear on how bad it is I elected to avoid it :P

But now I do have weapons and will be exploring! So there! Only... a bit late. A bit!
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Stirk on May 10, 2023, 02:11:52 pm
I rushed that shit so hard that my explorers don't even have pointy sticks.

You don't even have an explorer's hall. You are to exploring what the four armed guys stabbing water is to research.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Nirur Torir on May 11, 2023, 06:45:50 pm
Stirk, you can't train units while also sending them out.

Additionally, I hate to change the rules this far into a turn cycle, but I'm going to change a rule on you. Military School currently allows training 2 units a turn, but requires a general and the general's turn for the training.
With Trade and a Marketplace, you can support one military unit per 1334 population.

That has limited use cases, even with the boost to unit replenishment rates I added.

Instead of only training new units, military schools now have 2 training slots. Training slots may be used to train for new traits, if unlocked, and equipment (the entire equipment loadout).
There is one exception. A unit with 0 traits, or a new unit, may train to both have a trait and get a new equipment loadout for 1 training slot.
You may also use a training slot to get a temporary morale boost, or a temporary boost for a particular terrain type (this may evolve into a full trait for the unit if they use it in combat). The roll table will be improved with a military school, staffed or not. The roll table will be improved with a general assigned to training, stackable with the improvement from the military school. There will be diminishing returns from trying to get two morale boosts from training at once on one unit.

As a sudden new rule that changes your turn, I'll allow the Explorer's Guild during this first era to train 1 explorer trait onto a unit per turn, in addition to your standard training. You can't train 2 explorer traits per turn like this.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Egan_BW on May 11, 2023, 07:28:47 pm
Can I train existing units with weapons the same turn I call them back to the city? How about weapons and explorer's hall at the same time?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Nirur Torir on May 11, 2023, 07:46:34 pm
Can I train existing units with weapons the same turn I call them back to the city? How about weapons and explorer's hall at the same time?
It depends on how far away they are. For now, your units are still close enough to home that they're returning home every turn.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Stirk on May 11, 2023, 08:54:04 pm
Stirk, you can't train units while also sending them out.

Additionally, I hate to change the rules this far into a turn cycle, but I'm going to change a rule on you. Military School currently allows training 2 units a turn, but requires a general and the general's turn for the training.
With Trade and a Marketplace, you can support one military unit per 1334 population.

That has limited use cases, even with the boost to unit replenishment rates I added.

Instead of only training new units, military schools now have 2 training slots. Training slots may be used to train for new traits, if unlocked, and equipment (the entire equipment loadout).
There is one exception. A unit with 0 traits, or a new unit, may train to both have a trait and get a new equipment loadout for 1 training slot.
You may also use a training slot to get a temporary morale boost, or a temporary boost for a particular terrain type (this may evolve into a full trait for the unit if they use it in combat). The roll table will be improved with a military school, staffed or not. The roll table will be improved with a general assigned to training, stackable with the improvement from the military school. There will be diminishing returns from trying to get two morale boosts from training at once on one unit.

As a sudden new rule that changes your turn, I'll allow the Explorer's Guild during this first era to train 1 explorer trait onto a unit per turn, in addition to your standard training. You can't train 2 explorer traits per turn like this.

Spend 2 more labor toward research and 1 toward…9, I guess. Add the extra food toward the grugg bribe
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Criptfeind on May 12, 2023, 07:38:34 pm
yay, a new turn, I'm excite.

Error: More bonus labor than expected. You had two +6 boosts, and only factored in one.

I've not been calculating population left overs to bonus labor at the end of my turn in case there's a situation where it changes during the turn resolution itself. But perhaps that a bad way to record it? Especially since if I understand this correctly, the population spent on military still gives it's fraction toward labor on the turn after you recruited it?

If there was an event that changed population, or population was lost too an attack or something, would that effect the bonus labor from the population that you acquire for that turn?

Also I think I should have 14 labor, 12 from pop, 1 from bonus labor, and 1 from moral?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Nirur Torir on May 12, 2023, 07:45:55 pm
I've not been calculating population left overs to bonus labor at the end of my turn in case there's a situation where it changes during the turn resolution itself. But perhaps that a bad way to record it? Especially since if I understand this correctly, the population spent on military still gives it's fraction toward labor on the turn after you recruited it?

If there was an event that changed population, or population was lost too an attack or something, would that effect the bonus labor from the population that you acquire for that turn?

Also I think I should have 14 labor, 12 from pop, 1 from bonus labor, and 1 from moral?
Since recruits still provide a civil labor bonus during training, I think most disasters should also give their bonus labor before people die.
14 is correct, I'll change it.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: IronyOwl on May 13, 2023, 12:32:56 am
How cute, there's a little spider in my pen!

Speaking of which, aaaaaaaany turn now I'll have a military. Sure hope my negative event isn't next and it's raiders.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Criptfeind on May 14, 2023, 12:08:11 pm
Ah, I just realized a mistake in my last turn/the last turns resolution. Weapons only cost 1 wood each, for some reason I thought they cost 2... Presumably because most things are resources=labor and because I'm an idiot. I guess I should be at 7 wood now, not 6.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: IronyOwl on May 14, 2023, 02:47:33 pm
I made a similar assumption with Animal Pens. Turns out 3 Labor + 1 Wood is considerably more expensive than 2 Labor + 2 Wood!

Still. One hefty investment is well worth it for as much silk as I'll need for the foreseeable future. Cue trading partners being absolutely rabid for the stuff
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Stirk on May 14, 2023, 03:45:27 pm
I made a similar assumption with Animal Pens. Turns out 3 Labor + 1 Wood is considerably more expensive than 2 Labor + 2 Wood!

Still. One hefty investment is well worth it for as much silk as I'll need for the foreseeable future. Cue trading partners being absolutely rabid for the stuff

Did someone say raiding partners?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Toaster on May 20, 2023, 09:56:03 am
Sorry I've been slack, folks.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Criptfeind on May 20, 2023, 10:10:02 am
No problem I'm sure, although this turn you only need 1.1 luxuries per pop (you needed 1.2 last turn because of the bonus labor thing, but that's not relevant this turn) so you can get away with 1 clothing and 1 food instead of 1.2 clothing and 1 food.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: IronyOwl on May 20, 2023, 07:27:06 pm
why are these living rocks always so slow to do anything
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Stirk on May 21, 2023, 02:15:59 pm
why are these living rocks always so slow to do anything

Are we sure they're living and not just normal rocks?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Nirur Torir on June 03, 2023, 07:30:16 pm
I'm officially abandoning this. I'm sorry.

The Living Wood would have been a fun resource. Initially, it would have been as strong as copper weapons. It could have been taught to take a second form by spending the labor cost of the second weapon, but no further material costs. Two obvious uses would have been archers that can fight like swordsmen, without whatever downsides come from having too many weapons, or having swordsmen with a pikeman anti-cavalry skill. Future research possibilities could have made it stronger, to keep up with higher tier materials, or let it take a third form, both probably at fairly high costs.

I played silly games with your maps. Everyone had a different 90 degree rotations from their neighbors, so you wouldn't have noticed you were near someone just by exploring their lands. I would have found it endlessly entertaining if you had managed to not find your neighbors until you tripped on their capital.
Only the backwards, four-armed barbarians had the True map rotation.

I liked the map at first. It was a Mediterranean style map, with a big sea surrounded by land. The trader elf GMPCs would have made contact with villages along the inner coast by era 2-3. That would have been made awkward by nobody having a good backstory for a naval tradition, meaning that GMPCs would have been at least an era ahead in navy over the players, and had strong reasons to invest heavily in it. That's too overbearing for GMPCs.
The full map also has lots of forests, and is generally very green and pleasant looking. It's strategically interesting, but it doesn't look like an apocalypse happened.

Might I suggest sending them a fruit basket?
This post made me laugh: The aggressive raider player suggested the best path for diplomacy, and the only one I had planned out. The NPC group was small, so 1 food during each famine during era 1 would have been enough to make them friendly with you. You could have probably come up with other ways, but that was the easiest.

This was my first game I made with a complicated battle system that I actually liked. With a spreadsheet, it was easy to run.
Spoiler: Combat Details (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: crazyabe on June 03, 2023, 08:33:05 pm
I'm officially abandoning this. I'm sorry.
Don't be sorry! it was a great game while it lasted, and given you chose one of the most difficult genres of forum games to run (in general) I don't think any of us were actually expecting things to reach a 'good' end point.


On another note- could we get the 'full' map?
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread - End
Post by: IronyOwl on June 03, 2023, 08:46:29 pm
A pity, but such is the way of things. Thanks for running it this far.

I am pleased to have outwitted your map shenanigans by virtue of never producing a single military unit. I was getting there, though.

A Mediterranean map when no player is a sea power but the NPCs are sounds pretty cool, actually. They could have developed into a loose coalition of city states or sprawling but corrupt empire to contrast with the players' more centralized holdings. Or just been a mega-port too concerned with commerce to have any real will to expand or deal with outside issues beyond protecting trade routes.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread - End
Post by: Egan_BW on June 03, 2023, 08:51:21 pm
Better luck next time.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread
Post by: Nirur Torir on June 03, 2023, 08:51:53 pm
On another note- could we get the 'full' map?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread - End
Post by: IronyOwl on June 03, 2023, 10:11:44 pm
Oh my. That would have taken quite a bit of exploration to find each other.

Also very boat-friendly, which makes it all the more tragic that none of us were very interested in water.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread - End
Post by: Criptfeind on June 03, 2023, 11:06:24 pm
Rip, but that's the way it goes most of the time. It was fun well it lasted. It seemed like quite an ambitious game.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread - End
Post by: Toaster on June 04, 2023, 09:10:48 am
Thank you for making this!  I enjoyed trying to plan things out in my head.

Translating hex maps to grid based must have been interesting.
Title: Re: Age of Calamity and Regrowth: Discussion Thread - End
Post by: IronyOwl on June 06, 2023, 12:41:27 am
I forgot to ask - how did archery compare to melee combat?