Post by: Meph on May 27, 2014, 12:45:08 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/AV7Qxzq.png)
Post by: Meph on May 27, 2014, 12:45:57 pm
Post by: ibluminatus on May 28, 2014, 11:30:31 am
Post by: Meph on May 28, 2014, 12:03:13 pm
I am not aware of any crashes specific to Orc mode. In fact, Smake was very thourough about bugs, much more than the rest of the mod. Any crashes you experienced are most likely from dfhack diggingInvaders, which will be fixed in the next update by me.
Coding is not necessary for DF. Modding can be learned quite fast, especially if you just read through Raws other people wrote. Important is that you know what you want to do and make some sort of plan. And that the new content/changes continue is a similar fashion as the old ones. As long as it fits with the current Orc theme, new content would be great. :)
I would welcome the support. :)
Post by: ibluminatus on May 28, 2014, 12:30:36 pm
Post by: Meph on May 28, 2014, 12:38:20 pm
Urist McTeellox also has his plans online, see here: https://github.com/pjf/masterwork-dwarf-fortress/issues?milestone=2&state=open
He is not currently working on them, but maybe you can borrow from each other. :)
Post by: Meph on May 28, 2014, 01:51:05 pm
1. Low-level dreamwalker weapon
- A staff and a melee weapon that are cheap and early to make and gives minor buffs/spells. Uses itemsyndrome, only works for dreamwalkers and mages.
2. Expand orcish captives
- Take real, live invaders prisoner. By interaction or transformation. Then expand the other industries around these captured slaves. (Note by Meph: Warlocks and Succubi have this. Kinda. I even want to move away from it in Warlock mode, because live prisoners are too much of a hassle to micromanage.)
3. Announcements on Orc raid
- Add lines of text to announcements.lua so it pastes results of raiding/special reactions into the gamelog.
4. Orcish Grand Circle
- Big suggestion. Make a center workshop that works with scalps, unlocking 8 surrounding workshops that form a great circle. Each one requires scalps of a specific race and unlocks a buildings that gives you race specific abilities. So you defeat enough dwarves, you get access to the dwarf-part of the Grand Circle. Defeat all races often enough, collect enough scalps, and you can build the entire circle. With workshop names like "Monument of Mountain Conquest" or "Monument of the Razed Forests". (Note by Meph: This sounds exactly like the Warlock library. Kill enemies, use scalps to write books, books unlock parts of the larger building. And its 3x3=9 workshops as well. Not sure if people want to see the same technique twice. It also requires all races to be active in a world, so most players will never be able to fully build the entire circle.)
5. Have enemies arrive at the orcish drydock
- Spawn units when your raid fails. A bit tricky to do, because its a IF/ELSE reaction. And the units would be naked, currently spawning units with gear is not possible.
6. Overhaul orcish cisterns
- It uses a very old system of creating water/magma. Using scripts will make them much easier to use.
7. Add magmalings/waterlings to orcs
- Dwarves use them, but see above: There are better solutions now. Maybe raid/steal them from dwarves though.
8. Sorting Bench Workshop
- Has "free" reactions that require a special ingredient which is preserved, and no other product. In short: Reaction "Sort scalps" would take any scalp, carry it to the workshop and leave it there. Thats it. A way to easier move highly specific objects to a place. Objects wanted are: dream talismen and soulgems, prepared scalps, standards of honour, raiding gear (weapon crates, longboats), mojos, blueprints, migrants and captives, foreign toolkits, acid vials, warrior codexes, dreamwalker codexes.
9. Orcs need light sources
- Add some Rendermax-using lights. Simple.
10. Moar dakka
- Add more weapons to the Orcs. Suggestions so far: Crescent moon knives, Dragon beard hooks, Karambits... probably southamerican or asian weaponry would fit best.
11. Orcs should have a use for gnarled roots
- Gnarled roots are single inorganics that appear in soil. They can be made into wood by some other races. Orcs shouls be able to do that too.
12. Blacksmoke furnaces should produce smoke
- Real smoke is possible. Impact on FPS is highly likely though. See science here: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=134547.msg4886932#msg4886932
13. Honour Guard's Armour
- Build highly specific sets of good armor that uses standards of honour as reagents to make. Gives constant buff to nearby units. Requires itemsyndrome. Simply put:
Spoiler: One of these guys (click to show/hide)
14. Advanced Orc Raids
- Improve the raiding system. Raiding ruins is too easy, and there are no drawbacks to doing so. Adding negative effects like spawning a Nightcreature, or getting an Orc infected or cursed, or spawning items with negative effects, or triggering ambushes or sieges would be nice. Adding more targets as well.
15. Have orcish raids trigger sieges
- See above. Use probabilitySyndrome and AutoSyndrome to run the Force Event script when doing raids.
16. Honouring dead ancestors?
- If we have a way to trigger off a citizen's death, we can have them drop a special item that can be used to make things in their honour. (Note by Meph: Not entirely sure where he was going with that.)
Two additions from me, about two bug reports for Orc Mode:
(17. Frostscald destroy clothes with own frostspell frost damage)
(18. Scalps too valuable - item_tool is missing size token?)
Edit: Third addition: Lamellar robes use a clothing item, which means that they do wear away.
Code: [Select]
[REACTION:LAMELLAR_ROBE_ORC]
[NAME:craft lamellar robe]
[BUILDING:ORC_TRIBALGEAR:CUSTOM_R]
[REAGENT:A:1:SKIN_TANNED:NO_SUBTYPE:CREATURE_MAT:ANIMAL_LAMELLAR:LEATHER]
[PRODUCT:100:1:ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_ROBE:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:NONE]
[SKILL:LEATHERWORK]
Post by: Arcvasti on May 28, 2014, 08:02:06 pm
Quote from: Arcvasti
Quote from: ArcvastiPTW
Post by: Gamerlord on May 29, 2014, 07:40:18 am
Post by: Meph on May 29, 2014, 07:58:40 am
Post by: danmanthedog on May 29, 2014, 01:17:26 pm
- Type of warg like wolf creature.
- Poisen spewing little nasty creatures, like kobold sized creatures.
- An orc hopped on war drugs and berserkerness that is double in sized to normal orcs. It can only be pen so no military of them unless you want to the route of the war golems. but have the tendacy to smush/eat it's other orcs.
Post by: Gamerlord on May 29, 2014, 06:08:44 pm
2. Eh, poisons for kobolds.
3. Maybe. Might be interesting.
Post by: Arcvasti on May 29, 2014, 07:35:00 pm
Post by: Meph on May 30, 2014, 05:09:20 am
As far as suggestions for Orc mode goes, I'd suggest nerfing the common orc's combat skill gain. I currently have 5 legendary spearorcs and its autumn of the second year. Its a tad ridiculous.I checked just now. They dont learn spear skill (or any other combat skill) faster than dwarves. Its 100%. Dwarves have 100% as well, but default is "Harder Learning", which makes it 50%. Maybe thats why the orcs are better from your point of view.
But only the rare Olog caste has 150% learn rate in combat skills.
Post by: Gamerlord on May 30, 2014, 05:31:15 am
Post by: Meph on May 30, 2014, 05:42:09 am
Post by: Arcvasti on May 30, 2014, 05:00:35 pm
Post by: Meph on May 30, 2014, 05:06:07 pm
Post by: danmanthedog on May 30, 2014, 10:07:32 pm
Post by: T-Rex on May 30, 2014, 11:05:21 pm
Post by: Meph on May 31, 2014, 12:06:39 am
Is is possible to make it so there is a way higher chance of dieing from infection for orcs or orcs don't have access to soup so to make injured orcs are just wastes of space in the eyes of the army?Could you rephrase that? But no, no higher chance of dying from infection... why should they?
Is it intentional for the new emigrating script to also apply to Orc forts? Cause I can't seem to find if you can build an Embassy in an Orc fort so I can't seem to control it in any way. :(Yes, its intentional. It affects all races atm. I didnt think that "emigration 10" (from 0-1000) would be such a high number that its a problem, rather have a very rare emigration event. If too many emigrate, I can either do:
- Disable it by default for all races.
- Or add a control mechanism to all races, like the Dwarves have with their embassy.
Why, how did it go? Did all your orcs run away?
Post by: T-Rex on May 31, 2014, 12:53:47 pm
- Disable it by default for all races.
- Or add a control mechanism to all races, like the Dwarves have with their embassy.
Why, how did it go? Did all your orcs run away?
[/quote]
I think I'd really like a way to just turn emigration off if I can't control it or influence it somehow under normal circumstances as I've found it more of a headache than anything else. My two problems I've run into were during an early fort when there's still growing pains, I had Orcs leaving at the same rate that migrants were coming in, and in some cases even a few more leaving meaning that the already painful shortage of manpower in the early game was made even more painful. The other problem was that I had valuable orcs (like an Ologg who was training up as a heavy hitter) leave simply because of the bad timing that they were unhappy whenever the emigration check was done. (in this case the Ologg was unhappy because a friend of his had been killed not too long ago by a giant elephant). So off he went with the merchants with no way for me to stop him.
I understand that some people may enjoy this sort of challenge, I'm just asking for the ability to turn it off.
Post by: IndigoFenix on May 31, 2014, 01:56:27 pm
Post by: SharpKris on May 31, 2014, 04:22:50 pm
no pigs or ducks in sight
Post by: Arcvasti on May 31, 2014, 04:39:27 pm
is it just my games or are most domestic pets missing from embark screen?
no pigs or ducks in sight
Its a feature. No self-respecting orc would consort with those foul waterfowl or milkbeasts!
Post by: SharpKris on May 31, 2014, 04:44:54 pm
is it just my games or are most domestic pets missing from embark screen?
no pigs or ducks in sight
Its a feature. No self-respecting orc would consort with those foul waterfowl or milkbeasts!
so no domestic pets for leather?
Post by: Arcvasti on May 31, 2014, 04:45:40 pm
is it just my games or are most domestic pets missing from embark screen?
no pigs or ducks in sight
Its a feature. No self-respecting orc would consort with those foul waterfowl or milkbeasts!
so no domestic pets for leather?
Why use puny domestic animals when you can use your fallen foes or just random wildlife you hunted?
Post by: ibluminatus on May 31, 2014, 08:09:46 pm
I feel like these would be easiest to start to with: 10.) , 9.) 3.) maybe 1.)
Post by: Blightedmarsh on June 03, 2014, 12:02:20 am
This is an inconsistency between iron bone and bloodsteel weapons manufacture.
Post by: capennington on June 04, 2014, 11:48:27 pm
Post by: Meph on June 05, 2014, 06:46:32 am
I'm having issues trying to embark as orcs -- It shows generic same-name stuff for all digging implements and most weapons but the digging implements can't actually be used to dig. Sorry for being noobish but I'm excited to try some of these new civs but I keep running into issues :(Could you give more infos?
You set orcs as playable in the gui.
You maybe disabled all other races as playable in the gui.
You genned a new world and embarked as orcs.
You have picks. Because orcs still use normal picks to mine... and they dont work?
Post by: laurief on June 05, 2014, 07:37:09 am
The problem is that I cant find them on the world map as neighbors so I can select them. I have generated 4 or 5 worlds so far with no luck.
Am I doing something wrong? I have enable them as playable race from GUI.
Also I had some crushes with recommended world generation and V5.0x
Post by: Meph on June 05, 2014, 07:39:23 am
Post by: capennington on June 05, 2014, 02:26:13 pm
I'm having issues trying to embark as orcs -- It shows generic same-name stuff for all digging implements and most weapons but the digging implements can't actually be used to dig. Sorry for being noobish but I'm excited to try some of these new civs but I keep running into issues :(Could you give more infos?
You set orcs as playable in the gui.
You maybe disabled all other races as playable in the gui.
You genned a new world and embarked as orcs.
You have picks. Because orcs still use normal picks to mine... and they dont work?
No, the picks are not showing up as selectable. Just generic weapon-type names for it all. Just jaguar warrior arms of different materials under Digging implements and stuff like toothed spears, generic 'weapon', air blaster, shock batons and stuff like that under the weapons tab. No axes for trees or picks for mining so I can't actually harvest building materials :(
Post by: Meph on June 05, 2014, 02:53:07 pm
Post by: capennington on June 05, 2014, 03:00:48 pm
Post by: Endovior on June 06, 2014, 12:58:53 am
Found an odd glitch... twice in a row, now (had to abandon the first fort, after my hunters were eaten by drakes), the first caravan I've gotten is a Goblin Caravan, which shows up with trolls pulling wagons. Each time, it's been a completely empty caravan, that doesn't actually have anything available to trade.
Something seems wrong with this.
Post by: Meph on June 06, 2014, 05:48:17 am
Been messing around with Orcs lately.What version are you playing? Because that bug had been reported in 5.03 and has been fixed since. And the trolls are intended for Goblins, they are their pack animals.
Found an odd glitch... twice in a row, now (had to abandon the first fort, after my hunters were eaten by drakes), the first caravan I've gotten is a Goblin Caravan, which shows up with trolls pulling wagons. Each time, it's been a completely empty caravan, that doesn't actually have anything available to trade.
Something seems wrong with this.
Post by: Endovior on June 06, 2014, 03:48:26 pm
Post by: omniclasm on June 06, 2014, 05:45:13 pm
Last time I had a mildly successful orc fort, half of the magic spells didn't work. Notably, none of the weapons or dreamcatchers actually gave the abilities they were supposed to. The reaction to turn dreamwalkers into other classes also didn't really work.
If it hasn't been touched, I might roll a new orc fort and see if I can get that far in to do some testing.
Post by: omniclasm on June 07, 2014, 09:38:47 am
"Caravan, diplomat, and siege require a civilization ID to be included".
That's in a world with dwarves still alive (they sieged me a year prior).
Post by: omniclasm on June 07, 2014, 09:49:03 am
The sorcerers I do have also didn't gain any skills from equipping a wraithblade. They also didn't gain and spells from the mojo reactions at the Altar of Storms.
Basically it's just completely broken.
Post by: Meph on June 07, 2014, 10:09:46 am
The reaction to transform a dreamwalker into a sorcerer seems to still not really work. I used it, and nothing happened besides losing the talisman.This is strange, because Smake wrote that, and I know it worked. There have been next to no changes on Orc mode. Does dfhack show any error messages? maybe WOKER_ID somethings, or mentioning of itemsyndrome ?
The sorcerers I do have also didn't gain any skills from equipping a wraithblade. They also didn't gain and spells from the mojo reactions at the Altar of Storms.
Basically it's just completely broken.
Post by: omniclasm on June 07, 2014, 10:14:03 am
Worked that time >_>
Maybe because he was in a squad when I tried it the first time? I don't know. As always, the way to fix a bug is to report it then try to recreate it.
Tried it again and it didn't work again. Seems pretty hit or miss...is it only a percent chance? Then, it worked again on the second try.
Post by: Meph on June 07, 2014, 10:23:34 am
After Smake left no one worked on the Orcs for a long time, till McTeellox started doing rebalancing, but he didnt knew enough about the raws to spot things like that.
Post by: omniclasm on June 07, 2014, 10:37:20 am
Also, unrelated to the thread...but holy crap workflow is amazing. Started actually using it tonight, and it's so useful.
Post by: DracoGriffin on June 07, 2014, 11:13:48 am
Maybe, it seems like that weird thing where if the person running the reaction moves too soon it does nothing. That's from using boiling rocks instead of dfhack isn't it?
Also, unrelated to the thread...but holy crap workflow is amazing. Started actually using it tonight, and it's so useful.
Yeah, workflow is a fucking godsend of a utility. Too bad it's somewhat limited for some things but holy shit, being able to specify an amount of masterwork items (plus utility to plan out objects) with certain input items (AKA, good way to get all the weird things nobles want without having to make super specialized areas with doors and stockpiles).
I think the issue you are facing is that the "transformations" aren't 100%; some of them are like 95% so there's always that issue. Not sure when the number is rolled though (at job creation, when all items are collected, actually performing the reaction or at the time of the reaction) so perhaps replicating the bug by saving before you create the job and go from there?
Post by: palu on June 07, 2014, 01:08:22 pm
I know this is idea is a bit old, but perhaps you could use the building upgrade script for this?It would get kind of annoying to deconstruct the Tribal Circle every time you want to go up a tier, if each tier makes the last one obsolete. Maybe each new set of reactions could be a separate workshop, with materials necessary for their construction being made in the main part? You could even have the graphics for the workshops form a circle if placed correctly, like puzzle pieces.
I like it!
So, crazy brainstorming here. Let's imagine a 3x3 grid. The central workshop our basic tribal circle. It does basic buffs, and allows sewing standards of honour. The four adjacent workshops require victories against each of the great races (elves, dwarves, humans, and drow), and provide race-thematic interactions. The "Monument of Mountain Conquest" (requiring dwarf-scalps to build) provides a "strength of the earth" buff that can be activated. The "Monument of the Razed Forests" (elves) provides a "swiftness of the birds" buff (speed), and so on. If we change the buff reactions to be field-of-view then we don't need to worry about getting all the orcs to squeeze into a single 5x5 space.
The corner pieces of the circle, I'm not sure yet, so suggestions welcome. For this to look really nice, we probably want to provide buildmat-free placeholders for each of the eight surrounding workshops. So you can place your whole circle (the inner part looks cool, the outer part looks bare), and then replace the outer sections as you unlock the buildings. (These placeholder buildings would go at the very end of the build menu, since you'd only ever make them once.)
I'm tempted to make all these outside only.QuoteIs it possible to restrict where a workshop/furnace is placed so that it has to be next to a specific other workshop?
Alas no, at least not that I'm aware of. But if we make them look like they'll fit together, I'm sure players will do the right thing for the awesome screenshots and bragging rights. :)
Thanks again for the input!
~ T
Post by: Meph on June 07, 2014, 03:15:24 pm
Post by: omniclasm on June 08, 2014, 03:40:34 am
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=8625
I didn't modify other races, like gnomes, but the changes might affect their "on equip" items that previously didn't do anything. Or it might cause your house to spontaneously combust.
Post by: omniclasm on June 08, 2014, 03:58:04 am
Post by: Gnomeknows on June 20, 2014, 02:15:47 pm
Post by: Meph on June 20, 2014, 02:53:40 pm
So frustrating, all the options for the blood bowl pitch are redded out, the wiki has no information, i searched the forum, no information, even this thread has no mention of blood bowl when I searched. How the heck do I get this thing working?Read the manual. Known bugs section, see the Burrows Bug. (thats my best guess)
Post by: Gnomeknows on June 20, 2014, 03:12:33 pm
Read the manual. Known bugs section, see the Burrows Bug. (thats my best guess)
Thank you so much, man that drove me nuts trying to figure it out.
Post by: darthbob88 on June 25, 2014, 02:56:36 pm
Code: [Select]
[REAGENT:bone:1:NONE:NONE:NONE:NONE][USE_BODY_COMPONENT][ANY_BONE_MATERIAL]
[PRODUCT:100:1:TOY:ITEM_TOY_ORC_DOLL:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:NONE]when it should say Code: [Select]
[REAGENT:bone:1:NONE:NONE:NONE:NONE][USE_BODY_COMPONENT][ANY_BONE_MATERIAL]
[PRODUCT:100:1:TOY:ITEM_TOY_ORC_DOLL:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:bone:NONE] Mismatch between REAGENT:A and REAGENT:bone.Also a small typo in the ore processor, which talks about "Process cassierite ore" when it should be cassiterite.
Post by: Meph on June 25, 2014, 04:15:12 pm
Post by: beepis on June 27, 2014, 10:45:23 pm
Also how do you get tree sapplings?
Post by: greycat on June 28, 2014, 05:59:58 pm
Hey i noticed you can't make training weapons but the weight set building uses them. Are you supposed to make training weapons?
That was fixed in the 5.10 release (today).
Quote
Also how do you get tree sapplings?
Outdoor farm, plant "tree acorns" (seeds). Tree saplings are the mature plants. They have to be processed in a Sawmill or similar building (not sure what Orcs have).
Post by: beepis on June 28, 2014, 06:08:34 pm
Post by: Meph on June 28, 2014, 06:22:17 pm
Post by: beepis on June 28, 2014, 06:24:27 pm
Post by: beepis on June 28, 2014, 06:41:43 pm
Post by: Meph on June 28, 2014, 06:51:36 pm
Post by: beepis on June 28, 2014, 06:53:17 pm
Post by: Meph on June 28, 2014, 07:09:39 pm
Post by: GreyPowerVan on June 29, 2014, 02:21:05 pm
I tried designating entire map for dumping, autodumping it to one tile, then undumping and reclaiming entire map and it didn't help.
EDIT: Is there a way to find out which item it is so i can just forbid it
Post by: firefly68 on June 29, 2014, 03:53:09 pm
Other than that, have you got any areas that your orcs can no longer access, such as a section you've walled off or have behind a locked door? Check any burrows you have set up also.
Post by: GreyPowerVan on June 29, 2014, 04:24:54 pm
It's not an orc specific issue. It's from vanilla. I'm not sure there is anyway to find out which item it is, but you might be able to zoom in on it by going to the announcement location. No promises though.
Other than that, have you got any areas that your orcs can no longer access, such as a section you've walled off or have behind a locked door? Check any burrows you have set up also.
No burrows, and nothing that seems to be walled off. The announcement just sends me to wherever the orc is currently. I ended up just forbidding the entire map and only unforbidding the things inside my base, that seems to have fixed it.
Post by: GreyPowerVan on July 01, 2014, 02:24:27 am
EDIT: Ah I was looking for boneyard but now it's the bonecarver's shop.
Turns out bone isn't fire-safe, so I'm stuck again.
Post by: Boltgun on July 01, 2014, 02:57:15 am
Post by: omniclasm on July 01, 2014, 03:50:46 am
I remember making furnaces in kobold fort out of bone blocks.
Post by: GreyPowerVan on July 01, 2014, 11:19:40 am
You can make glass blocks, or metal blocks for some fire safe materials.
Currently I'm unable to make glass blocks due to needing fire-safe materials to make the furnace, ditto for metal.
You sure bone isn't fire safe?I'm positive, I have 20 bone blocks sitting here and unable to make anything fire-safe from them.
I remember making furnaces in kobold fort out of bone blocks.
Post by: Meph on July 01, 2014, 11:20:51 am
Post by: GreyPowerVan on July 01, 2014, 11:25:40 am
Clay. Eathernware, Stoneware, Porcelain blocks.
Can i collect clay without making a clay oven? I just tried to make a clay oven and it told me I needed 'fire-safe building material non-economic item'.
Or do orcs have a custom claymaking place?
Let me look.
Post by: Meph on July 01, 2014, 11:34:56 am
Post by: GreyPowerVan on July 01, 2014, 11:38:22 am
Post by: windalu on July 01, 2014, 06:30:45 pm
I also just encountered one more serious matter (not very serious though) - Tribal Wargear workshop, making bloodsteel weapons probably want blood only in barrels, blood in large pots cannot be used (I can make ironbone versions of the weapons, I have pots of blood, cannot make bloodsteel versions of the weapons. Making bloodsteel bars at Boneforge works fine.) I have just now tested it, made 1 barrel with blood and now I can make bloodsteel weapon at Tribal Wargear...
Post by: GreyPowerVan on July 01, 2014, 08:17:03 pm
Post by: Nahere on July 01, 2014, 08:56:12 pm
Post by: windalu on July 02, 2014, 07:13:02 am
Post by: Meph on July 02, 2014, 07:13:40 am
I have just noticed Orcs cannot press peat (Screw Press building) to make fuel - is that itentional?Probably.
Post by: ussdefiant on July 02, 2014, 01:23:47 pm
If anyone wants to try "fixed" magic, along with magic weapons and runerobes actually adding their benefit, feel free to check out how awful my first attempt at MDF modding is.
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=8625
I didn't modify other races, like gnomes, but the changes might affect their "on equip" items that previously didn't do anything. Or it might cause your house to spontaneously combust.
Just to be clear, has this been incorporated into the latest MDF versions?
Post by: Meph on July 02, 2014, 01:26:15 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on July 06, 2014, 07:45:53 am
Just wanted to stop in to say hi and thanks to everyone who has done maintenance and added some awesome sounding new content. I still won't be playing too much for a while and all the new mod and script changes go over my head, and of course with Toady's version coming I'll be way behind. Although I am happy to support the Moar Dakka initiative :)
Best
Smak
Post by: smakemupagus on July 12, 2014, 09:59:19 pm
To do:
* Add reaction for sporetree saplings; gnarled roots
* Add reaction to dispose/use contracts
Unconfirmed:
* Reports that wearable magic items are broken... did something change in DFHack or Putnam scripts? I may need help with this one. For now I will just hang tight and do some more test and/or hope that USSDefiant's mentioned fix is all that was needed.
Suggestions
+ Low-level dreamwalker weapon
+ Sorting bench
+ magmalings/waterlings steal from Dwarves (if i can figure out how they work)
+ Moar dakka (I'm all for it although the things I've seen suggested I think are already in functionally: Crescent moon knives/Dragon beard hooks/Karambits = warclaws/bladed chains/large dagger)
+ Honour Guard's Armour that builds on the Rebalance team's War Banner system (sure! but i want also to avoid duplicating the effect of wardrums / warhorns)
+ Advanced Orc Raids and additional loot variations (was always intended)
+ Allow tobacco smoking at the outlander Tavern or orcish Meadhall?
+ A cheap farm/verminhunting animal to fill lowcost niche in orcish ranches (squigs obviously?)
+ Make industrial orc buildings require power (steamfurnace, factory, etc.)
+ Heavy weapons emplacement (req. dwarf captive/tools/cannon)
+ Medium weapon emplacement (req. human captive/tools/mechbow)
+ Allow Blindness / Nerve Stapling operations at Altar of Storms
Bug Reports
+ Frostskald destroy clothes with own frostspell frost damage (oops? does netherbark and steel wear away or only cheap clothes?)
+ No longer any way to make vanilla-like clay objects (pots, crafts, etc.) at Clay Oven? Possibly something changed in Dwarf mode that affects us?
+ Scalps too valuable - item_tool is missing size token?
+ Lamellar robes use a clothing item, which means that they do wear away
+ Mumakil (which were not available for purchace usually before; only capture from the wild) are probably a bit too cheap
+ New farm raid reaction returns extra chance to keep your longboat, so occassionally you get 2 boats back
+ Some orc's favorite minerals are menu placeholders like "***ORES***"
+ Even after rework The Altar of Storms minotaur transform still creates sad, cowardly minotaurs rather than bloodthirsty labyrinth guards
Post by: Gamerlord on July 13, 2014, 01:48:47 am
Post by: smakemupagus on July 13, 2014, 10:38:01 am
YEEEEEEEES. Is this gonna be compatible with the new df release?
Sorry it won't be immediately -- The DFHack and then Masterwork updates are much bigger projects and have to happen first, I think. The DF2014 compatibility changes that are Orc fort specific are going to be more subtle like balancing the swing and recovery times for orcish weapons.
Post by: Gamerlord on July 13, 2014, 10:53:45 am
Post by: smakemupagus on July 13, 2014, 12:53:33 pm
(if you can point me to another building in another part of the mod I can probably figure out how it works)
Post by: Jilladilla on July 13, 2014, 01:05:58 pm
Do you guys know, is there now a way to make buildings (i.e. factory or steamfurnace) require power, like from wind or watermills?
(if you can point me to another building in another part of the mod I can probably figure out how it works)
Try looking at the gnomish arc furnace or thunder forge or some other machine sounding building maybe?
Post by: smakemupagus on July 13, 2014, 06:40:29 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on July 13, 2014, 07:51:58 pm
Hmm, those are really cool, but they require the special gnomish electricity right?
No, actually, the gnomes use regular mechanical power and clockwork.
Post by: smakemupagus on July 13, 2014, 10:50:29 pm
As you can see it's mostly reactions to clean up extra stuff that appears nowadays in the fort, and small fixes for missing clay reactions and the sort.
Arcvasti, thanks, I guess i was wrong about me being able to figure out the power business ;) I'll actually play some gnome mode soon and try to learn how it works.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
and when it comes to lua i am totally winging it;
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Gamerlord on July 14, 2014, 05:58:59 am
Post by: Fleeb on July 14, 2014, 11:10:45 am
Post by: smakemupagus on July 14, 2014, 11:43:14 am
Gamerlord: my thoughts are something like this:
tier 1: low risk, low reward
* round up gob/kob
* pillage farm
* maybe couple more
tier 2: similar moderate risk/reward to the current loot tables (including chance for retaliation)
* raid settlement
* raid mines
* raid shipping
* raid shrine
* raid outpost armory
* raid tomb complex
tier 3: "reward tier" -- moderate risk, good rewards but not many directly high end items; requires a semi rare "map" item
* loot ancient ruins
* loot pirate treasure
* loot grand temple
* loot arms shipment
tier 4: high cost, chance for unique loot, chance for partial success, high chance for retaliation; requires a significantly rare "map" item
* assault city
* assault mountainhomes
* assault forest retreat
* assault dark tower
* assault gnome ... place?
Post by: Fleeb on July 14, 2014, 11:51:04 am
I'm not familiar with the burrows bug. I haven't actually set up any burrows yet.
Post by: smakemupagus on July 14, 2014, 12:00:15 pm
Whoa, 1000k? I assume that's a typo? K meaning "thousand". I have 10k or ten thousand coins.
I'm not familiar with the burrows bug. I haven't actually set up any burrows yet.
yes typo, 1k to 5k
works fine for me in game. can take a look if you want to post a save, otherwise i dunno
Post by: Gamerlord on July 15, 2014, 06:22:25 am
Post by: Fleeb on July 15, 2014, 10:41:08 am
Post by: smakemupagus on July 15, 2014, 11:12:00 am
this is a general comment, not specific to orc fort, but if you don't know whether the reaction is taking place it might go smoothest if you keep a small stockpile of inputs (copper weapons, coins) and outputs (wood & copper tools for boats & weapon kits) nearby WITHOUT bins, because inputs in bins can get carried around and cause cancellations.
Post by: MuDD on July 15, 2014, 03:18:36 pm
Post by: ussdefiant on July 15, 2014, 08:48:23 pm
Doesn't have to include a shield, since you might want your dudes to have 2H weapons, but it gets annoying to put in a half-dozen manager requests and completely clog my forges to get enough equipment to completely cover one dude.
Post by: smakemupagus on July 18, 2014, 01:14:44 pm
Meph asked for some "getting started" tips for the manual. Please post if you have some specific advices for new warchiefs (stuff you like to add to your embark, which key buildings to prioritize, how to make use of castes, maybe some comments specific to a certain style of orc camp, etc.)? otherwise of course I can fill it out but good to get other inputs too :)
mild request while you're mucking about: reactions to make a full suit of
Good suggestion, thanks :)
Post by: Arcvasti on July 18, 2014, 01:28:17 pm
Post by: Gamerlord on July 19, 2014, 06:12:39 am
If I have Artisans, I USE them. If I have more than one, I specialise them as well. As to the disposition of the rest of the settlers it depends on if I have Uruks/Ronin/Ologs. If I have some, I leave the normal orcs to be producers mostly. If I don't, that falls to the snaga who otherwise would have been the start of an archery squad.
I don't use the Tribal Warcrafter that much unless I have very little iron, in which case lamellar leather is the main armour and my iron is saved to make steel. Leave the magic system for a while at the start - you aren't gonna get anywhere without the souls that only sieges/ambushes will bring.
Oh and build multiple Butchers and Tanners. You're gonna need them.
Post by: Fleeb on July 20, 2014, 11:39:14 am
Post by: vjmdhzgr on July 20, 2014, 12:46:33 pm
So, orcs don't strike me as creatures that would be particularly modest... what would I have to edit so that they don't get mad at not having clothing?I think there's a dfhack script made for the succubi that you might be able to activate. Aside from that there's no raw nodding that can be done to do that.
Post by: Fleeb on July 20, 2014, 01:16:19 pm
Post by: vjmdhzgr on July 20, 2014, 01:35:27 pm
Bummer. Any idea what that script might be called? I just skimmed the succubi thread and didn't see anything relevant.I know there's something called fixnaked which I think removes it, but it only removes it one time and it will show up again pretty quickly. The one I'm talking about I think is similarly named. Based on how you asked rather than checked yourself you might not know that if you type 's into dfhack then it shows all the commands available so just look through that.
Post by: Boltgun on July 20, 2014, 02:28:14 pm
Bummer. Any idea what that script might be called? I just skimmed the succubi thread and didn't see anything relevant.
Type fixnakedregular in your dfhack console and you should be set.
Post by: Fleeb on July 20, 2014, 04:36:35 pm
Post by: Guthbug on July 21, 2014, 08:55:24 am
My personal set up:
If I have Artisans, I USE them. If I have more than one, I specialise them as well. As to the disposition of the rest of the settlers it depends on if I have Uruks/Ronin/Ologs. If I have some, I leave the normal orcs to be producers mostly. If I don't, that falls to the snaga who otherwise would have been the start of an archery squad.
I don't use the Tribal Warcrafter that much unless I have very little iron, in which case lamellar leather is the main armour and my iron is saved to make steel. Leave the magic system for a while at the start - you aren't gonna get anywhere without the souls that only sieges/ambushes will bring.
Oh and build multiple Butchers and Tanners. You're gonna need them.
I play orcs in one of two ways:
1. Primitive only, using bone and leather armor only and relying mostly on warfare to survive (no farms, no trading, etc.)
2. Ancient civilization recovering its majesty, in which I try to rebuild all of the ancient buildings and lost technology.
My personal favorite time is to try to recreate "the goblin caves" from The Hobbit, with all of the catwalks and platforms and such, but it requires a suitable cavern usually. And for whatever reason, the pathing usually leads to an early fort death due to FPS.
Post by: lwCoyote on July 21, 2014, 04:53:57 pm
Post by: Fleeb on July 21, 2014, 06:18:27 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on July 21, 2014, 11:16:52 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on July 21, 2014, 11:41:18 pm
And how many scalps does it take to make a standard of honor?
10 scalps, and a standard sized stack of cloth.
Post by: Boltgun on July 22, 2014, 03:35:39 am
It seems we no longer have any enemies with BUILDING DESTROYER (in the old days Drow and Dwarves would both come with V.C.C.'s pretty often). I wonder if we can convince the commanders of the forces of civilization to train up some more proper smashy warbeasts to attack us with :)
Every civ need one at least building destroyer. This is too easy to lock two doors and be done with it. The addpet script make it easy to setup.
Post by: Fleeb on July 22, 2014, 09:46:33 am
And how many scalps does it take to make a standard of honor?
10 scalps, and a standard sized stack of cloth.
Excellent, thank you!
Post by: smakemupagus on July 22, 2014, 11:54:08 am
My inclination is to
* change the build requirements for caravanserai bazaars back to something that comes from raiding (e.g. captives)
* make the domestic warrior societies (jaguar/falcon/dragon/seawolf) a little simpler but require more scalps
** remove requirement to build codexes
** require a warbanner for each society wargear
** balance the number of scalps per banner to match (~5? or is 10 OK?)
Post by: Fleeb on July 22, 2014, 06:20:01 pm
Making raiding a requirement for something is a wall to me because I absolutely cannot get raiding to work. I actually did manage to send an expedition off (thanks to earlier help), but I have no clue if it came back or anything. Got no messages and no longer have my boat.
But anyway, I've very new to Masterwork and it's been literally years since I've played DF at all, so I'm sure I'm hardly representative. Still getting into the hang of things.
On an unrelated note, I cannot get my boworcs to carry arrows. I have tons of bone bodkin arrows made, all bow squads have bodkin arrows set for combat and training, all the guys have quivers, but they will not pick up any arrows. They had been carrying arrows just fine and I've changed nothing, at some point they just stopped picking up arrows from the stockpiles. Any suggestions?
Post by: smakemupagus on July 22, 2014, 11:10:23 pm
I've never had any problem like that with ammo except occasional intermittent frustrating decision making (like, they fire all the arrows and then go party at gabbro table for a while before getting around to reloading). One possibility is that hunters have claimed all the existing arrows in the stockpile and you just need to make some more. You can check somewhere on the squads/ammunition menu the details of which squad, including hunters, have claimed specifically your existing ammo. But if you have in fact tons of arrows and no errors in Combat/training ammo materials settings then i dunno.
Post by: Guthbug on July 22, 2014, 11:16:18 pm
Yeah, I also get many less scalps and souls than I have dead enemies, which i don't really understand either. Possibly, just need more tanners and totem poles, to preserve the items before they go bad, as you said.
I have the same problem. Which is why I always complain about why they don't just use totems. If you don't get around to processing that skull for a few weeks, it's still a skull ... but a scalp is dried up jerky and a soul is ... well, I don't know what an expired soul is. :)
Post by: smakemupagus on July 22, 2014, 11:22:17 pm
Which is why I always complain about why they don't just use totems.
I guess the thinking was, because a totem is a totem whether or not it was originally a butchered turkey or whatever. But a scalp is provably a fallen dwarf.
Post by: Guthbug on July 22, 2014, 11:46:57 pm
Which is why I always complain about why they don't just use totems.
I guess the thinking was, because a totem is a totem whether or not it was originally a butchered turkey or whatever. But a scalp is provably a fallen dwarf.
Good point. I'm sure the great green god of orcs is less pleased when you bring him a weasel skull instead of a dwarf scalp.
Do you find that you have to increase invader materials and combat skills when you play orc? They learn combat skills so fast that if I can make it past the early stage, I've got a group of green killing machines that just can't be beat.
Post by: smakemupagus on July 23, 2014, 12:38:09 am
I wouldn't mind if bloodsteel and ironbone were nerfed a little bit compared to true steel and iron, although that's up to the whole MWDF community, they aren't purely "orcish" materials.
Post by: Guthbug on July 23, 2014, 08:43:30 am
Yeah, It seems to me like military skill learn rates have skyrocketed compared to what I remember from versions 2.x or 3.x, especially in live combat. After just a couple big battles I have already a handful of weapon lords. But nothing has changed in the orc raws that would affect it -- unless there is some sort of bug well hidden, they are supposed to have learn rates equivalent to vanilla dwarves, with just a few exceptions (ologs and ronin).
I wouldn't mind if bloodsteel and ironbone were nerfed a little bit compared to true steel and iron, although that's up to the whole MWDF community, they aren't purely "orcish" materials.
I went from a very old version that would run in Linux to a new version that I'm running in Wine, so I skipped a whole lot of middling changes. One or two ologs or ronin in your fort now seems to be able to make the difference between life or death. Well, it all ends in death, I suppose, whether it's succumbing to an invasion or succumbing to the pain of 55 FPS.
I never use ironbone or bloodsteel except when I'm playing warlock, and even then not great gobs of it to outfit everyone. Why bother when in a season or two, if I survive, I'm going to have all the mithril I could ever smelt back down? But I think for orcs (and warlocks) that ironbone and bloodsteel are "gated" appropriately enough in difficulty to have them be the iron and steel equivalents for more tribal (or wicked) races.
If anything, I would diminish their potential but rather add to their ingredient requirements slightly.
Post by: Guthbug on July 23, 2014, 10:03:53 am
From the orc creature file:
[SKILL_RATE:DODGING:140:60:12:120] --dwarves were 115
[SKILL_RATE:MELEE_COMBAT:140:60:12:120] --dwarves were 115
[SKILL_RATE:WRESTLING:140:60:12:120] --dwarves were 115
So if I'm reading that right, they are about 25% more combat oriented than dwarves. I know from playtesting that dwarves get really good at combat fairly fast if you divide them into sparring squads and let them do nothing but spar, but orcs seem far and away so much better at combat than the 25% might account for.
Maybe it's the "LIKE FIGHTING" tag that does it all. :)
Post by: smakemupagus on July 23, 2014, 10:54:27 am
Inspired by your comment, I looked through the entity files comparing orcs to the other races, and I can't really see anything that I would consider the reason for their accelerated, but Meph's hyper-commenting seems to help a little bit ...
From the orc creature file:
[SKILL_RATE:DODGING:140:60:12:120] --dwarves were 115
[SKILL_RATE:MELEE_COMBAT:140:60:12:120] --dwarves were 115
[SKILL_RATE:WRESTLING:140:60:12:120] --dwarves were 115
So if I'm reading that right, they are about 25% more combat oriented than dwarves. I know from playtesting that dwarves get really good at combat fairly fast if you divide them into sparring squads and let them do nothing but spar, but orcs seem far and away so much better at combat than the 25% might account for.
Maybe it's the "LIKE FIGHTING" tag that does it all. :)
I believe those were my hypercomments :) But very good point, I had forgotten that. And it is in fact melee combat skill and wrestling that i've seen skyrocketing fast more so than the individual weapon skills. --- or anyway, melee combat seems to go up first, and then the weapon skills follow.
and b.t.w. just a side note this is one of the oldest lines in the orc fortress raws so i bet it was probably the same rates in your old Linux version. That's not to say we can't rebalance it now if need be of course.
Post by: Guthbug on July 23, 2014, 11:07:39 am
I believe those were my hypercomments :) But very good point, I had forgotten that. And it is in fact melee combat skill and wrestling that i've seen skyrocketing fast more so than the individual weapon skills.
Heh. Well there's a bajillion lines in those raws, so it's understandable that you'd forget. :)
But doesn't it seem weird that the 25% results in such a more potent warrior? Legendary is legendary (I think) so at a certain point they aren't going to get any better than any other race, but yeesh, they tear apart even invaders with max skills and materials like they aren't nothing. When a siege happens, my orcs just say, "Ah! Dinner is here! With a fine assortment of weapons and armor to choose from!"
Then it takes longer for them to run out to the siege camp than it does for them to kill everyone. I MIGHT lose one unlucky redshirt every now and then, who just gets replaced without fanfare. And a few others will then go to the hospital to get their boo-boo fixed, and it's back to the armor stand to spar with each other for another season.
It's a little bit gamebreaking for me. I don't have to rely on clever fortress design or traps or weapons when my warrior squad is going to be so uber within a season or two. And the two races which would have the best magical chance of defeating a legendary squad (warlocks and succubi) are on their side.
I use orcs now to mostly do megaprojects, since a squad of well-armored uruks at the front door solves most problems. Or rather, an axe to the forehead solves most problems.
Post by: Guthbug on July 23, 2014, 11:19:26 am
With dwarves, I tend to specialize in labor to get the highest skills and the most masterwork gear. I fixate on even my mason turning out masterwork rock thrones to sit on. And peasants I use the library system to further specialize. So at the end of that, I don't have just a ton of spare dwarves to put into a dedicated military squad. (Though all legendary crafters get put in a special militia squad ... best way to protect your assets is to teach them to protect themselves.)
With orcs, I MIGHT specialize one or two orcs, but usually I can dedicate 10 or 20 orcs very quickly to full time military service. Meaning that from the very beginning they are sparring and gaining skills.
I guess what I'm saying is that it's thematic and cultural for them to become so uber so quick and not particularly a matter of numbers and raw files. The orc life is a harsh and brutal one, but that brutality within the confines of the game is only reflected in defending against sieges, which simply aren't up to the task. If they had to storm dwarf citadels or actually board and seize enemy ships at sea in some in-game fashion then you'd have more combat parity as the losses would be higher, even with the uberness of orcs calculated in. But as those aren't yet game mechanics which can be implemented, we end up through normal game play with a surplus of legendary warriors who have no real challenge.
Post by: smakemupagus on July 23, 2014, 11:33:48 am
a surplus of legendary warriors who have no real challenge.
There's plenty of room at the bottom! (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=122867.msg4308477#msg4308477)
Post by: Guthbug on July 23, 2014, 12:13:08 pm
Yeah, I'm with you on all that. Also, I think the early/mid game is closer to properly challenging if we turn down the number of allies a little from the MWDF launcher default and maybe swap out weaklings like gnomes for some of the tougher invaders. As cute as the little rascals are wielding screwdrivers and riding war skunks, they're basically XP pinatas.a surplus of legendary warriors who have no real challenge.
There's plenty of room at the bottom! (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=122867.msg4308477#msg4308477)
Heh. Gnome meat is probably a delicacy. I just wish they would bring some of their fabulous inventions with them. Orcs wearing roller skates ... awesome! :) And my ologs would LOVE a chainsaw.
Digging down into the third cavern is pretty cool as you get some interesting critters to fight. Breaching hell though is instant lag death for any fortress. :( Or it used to be anyway. I haven't done it in forever.
My computer can't handle a whole lot of combat going on for extended periods of time. For instance, if I create a black monolith in warlocks then it's pretty much going to cut me down from my normal 300 fps to about 90 with all the walking parts, hands, feet, and heads crawling around upstairs. It'll last until the next dwarf invasion when they clear out all the undead on the surface.
Don't for a minute get the impression that I'm downing on the orc mode. I love, love, LOVE it. I have played it almost to the exclusion of everything else for a very, very long time. I've explored every asset of it and even gone in to modify it somewhat to do different things. (Imagine a fortress that is 100% snaga only, by tweaking the caste percentile. Or a fortress which is olog only and can never craft anything beyond bone, stone, and wood. :) )
Post by: smakemupagus on July 25, 2014, 05:05:39 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
v5.10.OF2
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=6732
~~ download for entertainment purposes only ~~
Post by: Guthbug on July 25, 2014, 08:22:47 am
You have just destroyed my productivity for the entire weekend. The kids will go hungry, the garden will grow thick with weeds, the goats will go unmilked, and a state of general decay will ensue until some days later when I emerge from in front of my laptop, staggering bleary-eyed into the open air.
Post by: Fleeb on July 25, 2014, 10:20:49 am
Do you know what you have done??
You have just destroyed my productivity for the entire weekend. The kids will go hungry, the garden will grow thick with weeds, the goats will go unmilked, and a state of general decay will ensue until some days later when I emerge from in front of my laptop, staggering bleary-eyed into the open air.
And then projectile vomiting due to cave adaptation.
Post by: Guthbug on July 25, 2014, 10:29:29 am
And then projectile vomiting due to cave adaptation.
Probably won't get as much chance as I'd like ...
[CREATURE:WIFE]
[CREATURE_CLASS:EVIL]
[LIKES_FIGHTING]
Post by: smakemupagus on July 25, 2014, 10:56:01 am
Post by: Guthbug on July 25, 2014, 12:15:16 pm
Not sure if this is a problem with the patch or not, but I've never seen it before so thought I'd report on it.
So far, no other issues. Looking good, smake!
So what's with squigs? Why squigs? Are they somehow better than taiga wolves and sabrecats? :)
Post by: lwCoyote on July 25, 2014, 06:59:49 pm
Post by: Guthbug on July 25, 2014, 07:48:34 pm
Do Orcs get managers? I took an orc with organizer, but none of the noble positions seemed to require it, and when I queued up manager jobs (After setting my organizer to a variety of noble positions) none of them got activated
The scribe is your manager. He needs a chair somewhere.
Post by: lwCoyote on July 26, 2014, 12:00:48 am
Do Orcs get managers? I took an orc with organizer, but none of the noble positions seemed to require it, and when I queued up manager jobs (After setting my organizer to a variety of noble positions) none of them got activated
The scribe is your manager. He needs a chair somewhere.
He had a chair (and table, though not necessary) and had no hauling labors active, and yet the tasks remained un-active. I'll try again though.. maybe I messed something up somewhere. Also, new embark!
EDIT: Clarify... the Master Scribe noble position, or the "Scribe" labor? (located between Spinning and Toolmaking)
Post by: smakemupagus on July 26, 2014, 12:20:08 am
Master scribe, confirmed works fine. ..... He also doubles as bookkeeper so if you already asked for him to do the stocks at high fidelity too he might just have a lot of work to get through. You can appoint more than 1 if you want.
Post by: Guthbug on July 26, 2014, 08:28:20 am
I thought they were just more cave-functional than wolves or sabrecats and so would suit an entirely underground fortress better.
Post by: lwCoyote on July 27, 2014, 11:05:39 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on July 27, 2014, 11:34:07 pm
the *upgraded* crossbows and javelins available to dwarves and gnomes, and the elvish greatbow, are super devastating though. For what it's worth you can wield a composite bow with a shield; greatbow is 2handed.
Post by: Arcvasti on July 28, 2014, 12:56:18 pm
For what it's worth you can wield a composite bow with a shield; greatbow is 2handed.
Wait a minute. Does this mean you could technically wield TWO composite bows since they're one handed? 0_0
Post by: SecondBreakfast on July 28, 2014, 06:25:30 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on July 28, 2014, 06:45:37 pm
Post by: lwCoyote on July 28, 2014, 07:03:14 pm
the basic bow and basic crossbow are comparable to each other. But yes you are right, orcs have good bows ... the orcish recurve (and composite, if you build the fletcher) are better than basic.
the *upgraded* crossbows and javelins available to dwarves and gnomes, and the elvish greatbow, are super devastating though. For what it's worth you can wield a composite bow with a shield; greatbow is 2handed.
Ah, right the 'basic' orc bow is the recurve, not just 'bow'.. ok, thanks for the tip. Also, I have hard time picturing using a bow and a shield (thats not a buckler) o_o
Post by: smakemupagus on July 28, 2014, 10:59:10 pm
Carry, yes.... Fight with, not really.
>> Also, I have hard time picturing using a bow and a shield (thats not a buckler) o_o
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavise ?
Post by: beepis on July 31, 2014, 11:16:17 am
Post by: Meph on July 31, 2014, 11:36:24 am
Code: [Select]
[REACTION:WORK_OUT_TITLE1]
[NAME:*Trains Strength,Agility,Toughness,Spatial/Kinetic*]
[BUILDING:TRAINING_DWARF:NONE]
[BUILDING:WEIGHT_SET_KOBOLD:NONE]
[REACTION:WORK_OUT_TITLE2]
[NAME:*Even legendary Athletes still gain attribute boni*]
[BUILDING:TRAINING_DWARF:NONE]
[BUILDING:WEIGHT_SET_KOBOLD:NONE]
[REACTION:WORK_OUT1]
[NAME:Work out]
[BUILDING:TRAINING_DWARF:CUSTOM_A]
[BUILDING:WEIGHT_SET_KOBOLD:CUSTOM_A]
[PRODUCT:100:10:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:SWEAT]
[SKILL:MISC_WEAPON]
[REACTION:WORK_OUT2]
[NAME:Work out - Medium (Any Metal Bar)]
[BUILDING:TRAINING_DWARF:CUSTOM_B]
[BUILDING:WEIGHT_SET_KOBOLD:CUSTOM_B]
[REAGENT:A:150:BAR:NONE:INORGANIC:NONE][REACTION_CLASS:IS_METAL]
[PRODUCT:100:1:BAR:NONE:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:NONE][PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150]
[PRODUCT:100:20:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:SWEAT]
[SKILL:MISC_WEAPON]
[REACTION:WORK_OUT3]
[NAME:Work out - Hard (Lead Bar)]
[BUILDING:TRAINING_DWARF:CUSTOM_C]
[BUILDING:WEIGHT_SET_KOBOLD:CUSTOM_C]
[REAGENT:A:150:BAR:NONE:INORGANIC:LEAD]
[PRODUCT:100:1:BAR:NONE:GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:A:NONE][PRODUCT_DIMENSION:150]
[PRODUCT:100:30:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:SWEAT]
[SKILL:MISC_WEAPON] Its a simple workshop that uses metal bars to train, using the MISC_WEAPON skill, which trains Strength, Agility, Toughness, Spatial/Kinetic Sense. Its renamed to Athlete ingame.
Post by: beepis on July 31, 2014, 11:46:14 am
Post by: Meph on July 31, 2014, 11:51:15 am
Post by: smakemupagus on July 31, 2014, 12:00:56 pm
Why does the weight bench not train strength like the dwarven one?
No surprise, orcish and dwarvish culture have developed independently.
Anyway MISC_WEAPON (athlete) is just a physical skill like any other and as far as I know doesn't boost your attributes any faster than the exercises that orcs do.
... MISC_WEAPON is the skill that a tantruming Uruk uses to kill your scribe by throwing a table at him, but for most other purposes I'd just as soon get my attribute boost while learning to wrestle or dodge :)
Post by: smakemupagus on August 03, 2014, 08:58:25 pm
Before world generation:
The default world gen settings will give you a moderately easy first couple years, with several trading partners helping to guard your outpost and boost your economy. If you are looking for a tougher challenge for your Orcish warriors, you might choose to limit contact to ~1 friendly trade partner (for example, the goblins) and replace the weak Gnome invaders with some of the more powerful Fortress Defense races. You can turn off slag if you want since Orc Fort already has a similar inefficiency (rusty iron) built into batch smelting at the Molten Pit.
Before you embark:
Orcs are equally at home above or below the surface, so bring picks and axes of course. Orcish tribal gear uses a lot of leather, bones, and ash, so it's a good idea to get hunting (bring leather for quivers) or ranching going fairly quickly too. You don't need a lot of booze since orcs aren't alcohol dependent, and you don't really need an anvil since the Tribal Warcrafter workshop can provide without. Check the castes of your starting 7 for specialists. If you start with an Artisan, (Dreamwalker, Corsair), you don't need to invest embark points in crafting (medicine, appraising).
The included embark profiles can get you off to a quick start. The Goals and Tips in the scenarios below are designed to give an introduction to some of the features in Orc Fortress. Use any extra points to get a pack of Orcish Direwolves for hunting and guard duty, or Steppe Aurochs for ranching. Get some Arctic Condors or Terrier Squigs for vermin control.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
After the embark: Set up a basic camp with some secure living quarters, food supply, and carpenter/mason/craftsorc. The still can wait if you have fresh water, although booze is still good in the long run. Get multiple butchers and tanners running, and as soon as you have hides build leatherworker and the first two unique orcish buildings: Tribal Warcrafter and Fletcher. Start production of lamellar leather for shields for your whole warband, and armor for your most promising warriors. Add an ash supply from burning wood or the Crematorium; use leather, ash, and bone to create some ironbone weapons at the Warcrafter.
Choose weapons that suit your warband. Common orcs will usually do their best with an orcish axe or sword. Uruks can use great weapons one-handed, like the macuahuitl or greataxe. Ologs will be great with any heavy weapon including a polearm, club or maul. Snaga will do well with a composite bow from the fletcher. Mix in some war-claws, jagged spears, or bladed chains if you face large or armored enemies for piercing damage. For extra flexibility you can create combination weapons like the tomahawk, which allows you to fight in melee with axe and shield and also carry a quiver of throwing tomahawks. If you have any mages that you would like to join the fight, have the warcrafter make them them a Crisknife and bladeshards, or Tribal Staff with runebolts.
Assign a speaker, shaman (psych/doctor), and scribe (accountant/manager) and equip their rooms. You can add more shamans and scribes later as needed. Churn out some crafts for trade but hold on to totems -- you might find them more valuable as bounties for the Freelancers guild to jumpstart your raiding.
Mid game:
If you start metalworking, get an Orcish Molten Pit for batch processing. You can also use it to "re-size" small armor, like mithril armor taking from the corpses of elvish invaders. Use an Orcish Factory to churn out blocks from clay or ash for above ground building. The factory is also great for mass charcoal production from farmed or collected saplings. Once you have access to massive quantities of enemies to butcher, add extraction of blood to barrels in your meat-works, and add Boneforges to create bars of ironbone and bloodsteel that can be used at your forges.
Start your raiding industry by building a seige workshop and Freelancer's guild, and cutting a couple hundred trees. (Farming wood stalks or trade can help). Forge or factory-produce cheap weapons like copper daggers. Craft ballista parts. Mint or trade for rusty iron coins. Build a Raider Drydock and send some expeditions for Goblin and Kobold migrant workers. These workers are "tools" that can be used to unlock some useful workshops in the "Outlander's Ghetto". If you have enough resources, move on to the riskier raids to suppliment your own productions. You can loot unique foriegn weapons like warhammers and muskets, and blueprints or captives that unlock a variety of new buildings, but be aware that you are more likely to lose your ships and even have a chance to suffer a counterattack against your fort. Target Merchant Shipping or Humans to get human captives and unlock buying and selling goods at the Caravanserai. Then target Dwarves to get steel bars and gear, or Elves for the best bows and endless supplies of wood.
Late game:
Once you have a good quantity of scalps, start crafting Standards of Honour at the craftsorc and build a Warriors Meadhall. Your elite warriors can create powerful weapon kits with special melee and ranged attacks (try the Jaguar Society for your Uruks and the Seawolf Society for your Corsairs). If you have access to brass, fuel, rocksalt, or saltpeter you might want to explore gunpowder weapons and heavy industry: start by adding a Goblin Tinkerer, Blacksmoke Foundry, and Steamfurnace. If you have plenty of mithril or wolfram, you might want to add a damasc forge, where your best forgeorcs can make powerful elegant melee and throwing weapons.
Your Dreamwalkers can learn a great variety of spells at the Places of Power. Use a Totem pole to capture souls from your enemies. Rituals will grant you new equipment and mojos to unlock new spell powers; the ritual requirements vary at each temple but they all require some tallow or wax candles. Craft a reusable Codex and have your Dreamwalkers use it to learn some arcane arts and upgrade themselves into spellcasting magic users. Or, use some orichalcum that your smelters or raiders have found to create some Dreamwalkers' runic weapons at the Arcane forge, and use the Places of Power to enchant runic spells onto bladeshard or runebolt ammo.
There are a number of foreign buildings that can be unlocked rarely, either by Dreamwalkers using souls to experience visions at the Totem pole, or by your raiders bringing back plans from overseas, or in some cases by buying plans at the Caravanserai bazaars. None of these foreign buildings are critical but they can give you a unique edge in certain situations. Keep an eye out in particular for the plans for the Ancient Foundry or Ashland Glassworks, which allow you to make some special high-end weapons materials.
Post by: Meph on August 04, 2014, 04:58:41 am
Post by: Gamerlord on August 04, 2014, 05:15:17 am
Post by: smakemupagus on August 04, 2014, 11:02:58 am
Can I just copy paste that into the manual? :) Its neat, and a lot longer than I expected. (which is good)
Yep! Some is new, some is from the old "Tips & Tricks" page.
Quote
Hey, I think the Goblin Tinkerer needs an update. Last time I checked it smelted ore-bearing-rocks not the ores themselves. It might be more efficient to smelt them at the smelter after processing. Something to check up on anyway.
Thanks for note ... I believe that what it does now is takes ore-bearing-rock and creates bars just as efficiently as if you had processed them first, which seems OK to me.
Post by: smakemupagus on August 04, 2014, 03:26:00 pm
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=6732
Experienced players (or anyone else:) please comment on balance of new "pillage" and "assault" raids. Get maps to unlock them at small chance from normal raids, or send the Kobold Trickster to scout. Pillage are similar value but specific items that might be in high demand. Assaults are 3 longboats with a chance for 3x loot, and one of the 3 loots might be an extra rich haul. You can now unlock buildings again via raiding, with a much better chance for success on these raids that require maps though. -- Also a much better chance to trigger the counterattack scripts. Dreamwalkers are still the fastest way to get elf/dwarf/etc. tech if you have the souls to cruise for memories.
Note, i really don't have a lot of time to playtest as much as I used to, so please consider giving it a shot :)
* remove RESPONSIBILITY:LAW_ENFORCEMENT from executioner, give to clanleader (invalid officer error)
* lessened some co-alloy requirements at damasc forge, rebalance since patternwelded metals no longer have special properties in MDF
* [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:EGG_MATERIALS] on squigs and condors. fix(?) bug that prevented cooking eggs
* Removed some obsolete "soap" style blueprints which were no longer used
* [REACTION:KOB_THIEF3_ORC] - Kobold trickster - scout for maps
* [REACTION:KOB_THIEF4_ORC] - Kobold trickster - hunt for scalps
* [ITEM_TOOL:GNOME_LOOT_CRATE]
* [ITEM_TOOL:WARLOCK_LOOT_CRATE]
* [ITEM_TOOL:SUCCUBUS_LOOT_CRATE]
* [ITEM_TOOL:MINES_LOOT_CRATE]
* [ITEM_TOOL:ABBEY_LOOT_CRATE]
* [ITEM_TOOL:DARKTOWER_LOOT_CRATE]
* [ITEM_TOOL:WORLDTREE_LOOT_CRATE]
* [ITEM_TOOL:UNDERCITY_LOOT_CRATE]
* [ITEM_TOOL:TREASUREFLEET_LOOT_CRATE]
* [REACTION:RAID_GNOME_ORC]
* [REACTION:RAID_SUCCUBUS_ORC]
* [REACTION:RAID_ABBEY_ORC] (pillage loot: abbey)
* [REACTION:RAID_MINES_ORC] (pillage loot: mines)
* [REACTION:RAID_TREASUREFLEET_ORC] (assault loot: shipping/human/treasure)
* [REACTION:RAID_WORLDTREE_ORC] (assault loot: elf/elf/worldtree)
* [REACTION:RAID_DARKTOWER_ORC] (assault loot: warlock/succubus/darktower)
* [REACTION:CRATE_GNOME_LOOT]; mech gear, skates, brass, alum, lead, traps, xbow
* [REACTION:CRATE_SUCCUBUS_LOOT]; sorcerer codex, souls, bladeshard weapons
* [REACTION:CRATE_WARLOCK_LOOT]; destructive spells, ebonglass, soulgems
* [REACTION:CRATE_ABBEY_LOOT]; crafts, medical, healing spells, soulgems, armor
* [REACTION:CRATE_MINES_LOOT]; ores, gems, moonstone & obsidian, coal
* [REACTION:CRATE_TREASUREFLEET_LOOT]; shipping++ with lifeguard & muskets
* [REACTION:CRATE_WORLDTREE_LOOT]; elves++ with ashland glass
* [REACTION:CRATE_DARKTOWER_LOOT]; destructive spells, codexces, blueprints, souls
* Entity permit all of above
* Tinker with some of the existing loot tables (balance/diversity)
Post by: SecondBreakfast on August 04, 2014, 05:25:05 pm
Also the orcish weightlifting and blood bowl grounds seem pretty superfluous. They both seem to train the same skills, which are also trained by regular sparring? It's pretty confusing having an orcish weightlifter which requires far more resources and is noticeably worse than the dwarven equivalent so I'd suggest just taking that out.
edit: also why does the molten pit have the option to make 9 charcoal from 6 wood when the regular smelter already makes 3 coke from 1 wood? The molten pit option looks much worse.
Post by: smakemupagus on August 04, 2014, 06:55:46 pm
What labour do I have to enable to get orcs to sell stuff at the Freelancer's Guild?
Also the orcish weightlifting and blood bowl grounds seem pretty superfluous. They both seem to train the same skills, which are also trained by regular sparring? It's pretty confusing having an orcish weightlifter which requires far more resources and is noticeably worse than the dwarven equivalent so I'd suggest just taking that out.
edit: also why does the molten pit have the option to make 9 charcoal from 6 wood when the regular smelter already makes 3 coke from 1 wood? The molten pit option looks much worse.
(1) Scribe
(2) Yep, but i think that sparring and especially demonstrations works much better if you start with a couple ranks (you don't want them missing -- you want a swing and a hit or a block/dodge). IMO the combo of weightlifter -> sparring is borderline overpowered, Mrs. Smak uses it all the time and gets legendary squads quite readily in just a couple years. I can't comment on Meph's version since I don't play dwarf mode too often, other than to say sometimes we don't agree on every little balance detail :)
(3) Good question! I don't actually know where that 3:1 reaction came from, and probably will remove it ^^
thanks btw :D
Post by: SecondBreakfast on August 05, 2014, 03:41:16 am
The dwarf-style weightlifting bench does seem pretty overpowered, I wouldn't argue for it to be copied in to Orc mode, but I would argue for the orc bench to be removed and any extra reactions folded into the blood bowl pitch. Two different weightlifting benches with different requirements and reactions (and the more resource-heavy one being noticeably worse than the cheap one) is very confusing for newcomers.
Post by: smakemupagus on August 05, 2014, 04:44:52 am
Indeed, there is peat compression in the new version (@ goblin muckraker).
fwiw Wood stalks @ kobold Textile Hut powers the forges in a lot of our forts. Grow fast and seeds replenish very easily. Switch to burning ironoak and steeloak saplings for greater fuel density once the farmers are skilled.
Post by: smakemupagus on August 05, 2014, 11:49:53 am
I would argue for the orc bench to be removed
Mrs. Smak uses it all the time
Sorry friend you are not going to win that one ;D
Post by: SecondBreakfast on August 05, 2014, 12:02:42 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on August 06, 2014, 04:20:04 am
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=6732
v5.10.OF4.1
* Removed 3:1 charcoal reaction at smelter (balance)
* Added archaeology products to Ruins loot
* Added archaeology "treasure" to Treasure Fleet loot
* Rename/skin Weightset to Sparring Ground (since it's almost all weapon training)
* sparring ground hammer & strike reax use mace & spear instead of item_weapon_training_staff (it had been confusing since MDF calls that item NAME:training fists)
* Added orichalcum chance to Tinker and Molten Pit smelt reax
* Bug fix DIAMOND bad token -> DIAMOND_CLEAR
* [REACTION:PEAT_FIREPLACE_ORC] @ muck goblin
* [REACTION:TINKER_CANDELABRA_ORC] @ tinker goblin
* [REACTION:BRASS_LAMP_ORC] @ blacksmoke
* [REACTION:TOTEM_LAMP_ORC] @ boneforge & tribalgear
* All lamp item reactions to entity
* The intention was Rendermax lighting compatability, but it turns out that this feature crashes for me, so i can't actually play/test with it :/
Post by: Meph on August 06, 2014, 03:00:44 pm
Quote
* Add reaction to burn or plunder any accumulating in the fort that I don't understand (contracts? small souls?)
Contracts: Tools any race can produce, they have no use other than being a tradegood. Humans use them to set up foreign merchants, workshops and university teachers. I had to give each race a unique tool for that, that they bring automatically in their caravan. You can make them like any other tool in the craftsman shop and forge. They are not more or less expensive than other tools, so they dont unbalance anything.
Small souls: There are two types of souls. The megabeast souls from the slaughterhouse, which are used to reanimate megabeasts or give good combat skills to one unit. These souls are tools and stay.
The other, normal souls, are much more interesting: Any creatures that has a brain gives a soul when butchered. Civs that dont butcher sentient creatures might have a custom reaction to get souls of sapient beings, like Succubi, Dwarves and Humans do in their temples or altars. These souls can not be stockpiled, which means they cause no extra work if you dont use them. These souls wither away after 2 weeks (withered soul), and disappear after 4 weeks. That happens automatically, which means that they clean themself up, no extra work or FPS loss if you dont use them.
This means there is literally no downside for races that dont use souls.
The upside is that its a temporary currency based on how many creatures you killed. For example I have a reaction that uses 25 souls. Its hard to have 25 souls at the same time, because you need to kill 25 creatures in rapid succession, before they wither away. Which most likely results in the player building lots of butcheries nearby and making a slaughterfest to honor the god, who will get these 25 souls.
Dwarves get blessings from Armok for souls.
Humans give them to elves (treesinger, who weaves souls into plants/seeds), or pay warlocks/succubi with it.
Succubi use them for summonings/magic.
Warlocks use them as basis for almost everything. Their economy relies on them.
Kobolds do not use them.
Gnomes do not use them.
Orcs... your choice. I know that McTeellox talked about having Dreamwalkers guide the spirits/souls of their enemies into the afterlife, getting rewards for paying such respect to their fallen foes. It fits the theme. But if and how you want to use them is up to you. Like I said, there is no downside to not using them. They will simply lie in the butchery for 4 weeks, then disappear.
PS: - Some orc's favorite minerals are menu placeholders like "***ORES***"... cant fix that. Either that, or not titles in the stocks screen and menus.
Edit: Updating at this moment:
I saw you commented pestles and mortars back in. Are you using them in any reactions?
Quote
[TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_PESTLE] <== new
[TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_MORTAR] <== new
Testing has showed that the attacks on spiked and bladed minecarts are not used when they hit things. The attacks only come into play when a unit uses the minecart as a weapon, which doesnt really happen. I would delete them from the entity file, if you dont mind.
Quote
[TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_MINECART_SPIKE] <== new
[TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_MINECART_BLADE] <== new
[TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_TRACKTRAP_BLADE] <== new
[TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_TRACKTRAP_SPIKE] <== new
Found a tiny bug: [NAME:Hammer with training mace] should probably be [NAME:Practice with training hammer] ;) I fixed it in the update. Then I noticed that it uses the training mace as weapon. Then I noticed you dont have ITEM_WEAPON_HAMMER_TRAINING in your entity file... so... not a bug?
I did add the ITEM_WEAPON_HAMMER_TRAINING and changed it to training with hammers completely, it still looked a bit out of place, but if you dont like it, I can undo this.
Edit3: I made one other small change. The names of the arbalest and cannon tower reactions were longer than all others. I split them in two.
Code: [Select]
[REACTION:ORC_ARBALEST_3_HELP]
[NAME:===Costs 75 bolts, 3 months===]
[BUILDING:ARBALEST_ORC:CUSTOM_NONE]
[REACTION:ORC_ARBALEST_3]
[NAME:Load and oversee the arbalest]
[BUILDING:ARBALEST_ORC:CUSTOM_C]
[REAGENT:A:25:AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_BOLTS:NONE:NONE]
[REAGENT:B:25:AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_BOLTS:NONE:NONE]
[REAGENT:C:25:AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_BOLTS:NONE:NONE]
[PRODUCT:100:1:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:MORPHSTONE_GUNNER_ORC]
[SKILL:SIEGEOPERATE]
[REACTION:ORC_TREBUCHET_3_HELP]
[NAME:===Costs 45 cannonballs, 3 months===]
[BUILDING:TREBUCHET_ORC:CUSTOM_NONE]
[REACTION:ORC_TREBUCHET_3]
[NAME:Load and oversee the cannon]
[BUILDING:TREBUCHET_ORC:CUSTOM_C]
[REAGENT:A:15:AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_CANNON:NONE:NONE]
[REAGENT:A:15:AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_CANNON:NONE:NONE]
[REAGENT:A:15:AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_CANNON:NONE:NONE]
[PRODUCT:100:1:BOULDER:NONE:INORGANIC:MORPHSTONE_TREBUCHET_ORC]
[SKILL:SIEGEOPERATE]That way the text is not cut off that badly. (PS: Cannon loading had 3 reagents called A, as you can see. I fixed that as well)
Post by: Splint on August 06, 2014, 04:27:38 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on August 07, 2014, 12:04:27 am
Great, thanks for the merge and info! Any changes you did or didn't make, based on what you described here sound fine :D
I did in fact keep most of McTeellox's systems with just some tweaks. Orcs use the souls now as the prime reagent for Dreamwalker talismans and Soulgems, which power a lot of the magic and arcane-forge. Although it seems like you need to have several Dreamwalkers and Totem poles if you want to preserve the talismans while they're fresh. McTeellox had it set up so that the Dream talisman remembers which kind of sentient it was crafted from, so that if you use it to do a dreamwalk with it you can have a chance to unlock some tech or spells associated with that race, which is neat. (compared to McTeellox's original version i nerfed it a little bit so it's a bit harder to rush the dwarf/elf tech really early, but added some more chance to get some other types of info so it's potentially still useful in a longer game to continue dreamwalking once you have the buildings unlocked)
Nope, I'm not really using mortar and pestle, i briefly considered it then remembered that I was happy with the Blacksmoke furnace (chemist) just using vials or whatever he currently has.
Hi Splint -- the Warrior Society weapon kits are now made from a Orcish Standard, which in turn is made from scalps of fallen enemies (another of McTeellox's new reagents). So if you collect and cure a bunch of scalps you can upgrade macuahuitls to Jaguar Warrior kits, etc.
Post by: Splint on August 07, 2014, 12:56:06 am
What I meant was more (given the feel of the orcs,) their forebearers are pleased by your act of sacrificing/ paying homage to the souls of slain warriors of varying races, with an enchanted weapon as the eventual reward for escorting/sacrificing (your choice on the wording,) x number of souls of a given race, giving nonmagic warriors a single magic attack or other effect for a specific race. For example, 200 elf souls would get you say, a Greataxe of the Blazing Woods which grants the user the ability to afflict elves with painful blisters as they experience the anguish of being a tree on fire, or a Magebane Saber from warlock souls which emits a field of magic that immobilizes skeletons and ghouls in some manner (either a massive agility debuff or paralysis,) making it easier to deal with them or kill thier warlock masters. However these enchantments would be very specific, hurting only certain races or certain castes of races (something affecting dwarves may not work on dwarven mages as they have thier own magic aura to protect them for example.)
The idea being the weapons are extra effective because they debilitate thier specific soul source, and take time (that is x number of kills and souls stored in some way) to get, making them well suited for facing the potentially increasing numbers of enemies you'd be facing or allowing smaller groups or heros of the clanhold to have distinctive weapons that reflect deeds of the clan.
However their effects may also hurt the orcs in some way - the Magebane saber for example could each season potentially cause the orc wielding it to go berserk as the warlocks' foul residual energies seep into the blade from thier very souls, corrupting their minds or the Blazing Forest Greataxe's enchantment could backfire on occasion, causing crippling pain in the user and localized severe blistering in thier hands, putting them out of commission until thier hands heal. This would all depend on itemsyndrome of course, and that an orc be wielding the weapon. Imagine the pantsshitting potential of an uruk or highly skilled corsair flipping shit because of his fancy warlock minion crippling sword told him all his friends are plotting to kill him.
Obviously it's just my take on it, and this should probably dropped but I wanted to clarify what I meant. Semi-unique weaponry that takes souls and time (as well as possibly losing several orcs in combat) to get and provides beneficial abilities for the orc using it against certain enemies, not combined weapons that just need scalps for a totem and a smith to make the requisite weapons to be put together.
Post by: smakemupagus on August 07, 2014, 01:51:08 am
The souls are indeed connected to the things that are most similar to what you describe, not an exact match though of course. Currently they feed into spell learning, using the arcane forge, and the sun & stars templeguard's rune enchants.
Post by: Splint on August 08, 2014, 11:41:54 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on August 09, 2014, 12:11:59 am
Post by: Splint on August 09, 2014, 12:38:53 am
Post by: -Nihil- on August 12, 2014, 10:06:05 pm
I am having some issues though. In my first fortress I was unable to make any ironbone macuahuitl despite having plenty of bones, ashes, and lamellar leather. I disabled any stockpiles to give to this workshop and messed around with things in general but I was just unable to make it work :c
Now, I am on my third fortress(second was very short lived) and this time I can not even make a composite bow(which I had managed last time). I have plenty of standard leather and bones this time, as well as wood... I feel like I must be missing something. I am not messing around with anything people tend to mention like burrows and I have not set up any proper stockpiles for these workshops yet.
Thanks for any thoughts anyone may have.
Edit: So, I set up stockpiles to give to my fletcher and now it works. Seems like a bug to me? Still not sure why the sword did not work although I suspect if it is the same issue then I was missing the fuel source.
Post by: smakemupagus on August 12, 2014, 10:53:15 pm
Going by your post I guess the first time you lacked fuel and the third game you lacked lamellar (or stocks were short and one guy carrying bin around screwed it up). Manager can help maybe?
Post by: -Nihil- on August 12, 2014, 11:26:27 pm
I just managed to make the bows fine without any stockpiles set up.
Post by: smakemupagus on August 13, 2014, 12:34:55 am
Yes, stockpile links can lock out goods from going to other places, and the reciprocal "take" link will also lock out the workshop from accepting goods from other places. All vanilla DF stockpile behavior so the wiki can probably explain better that I can :)
Post by: -Nihil- on August 13, 2014, 01:36:11 am
Edit: These macuahuitls work pretty well. Two of my uruks and their dire wolf back up just massacred a dozen dwarves who thought they were better equipped. Four of them were dead before they knew what was going on. Another four were run down, I had never seen such trails of blood. The last four managed to escape, I hope the come back with more. It was all the uruks and their blades, the wolves were really just a bit of distraction.
Post by: smakemupagus on August 13, 2014, 11:01:47 am
Post by: Splint on August 13, 2014, 11:05:04 am
Yeah the macuahuitls have quite large contact area so there are pretty much two modes: glances off the armor, or total bloodbath :)
Which makes headshots quite useless against anyone with helmets with them sadly, but that's what the jaguar kit is for.
Post by: Gamerlord on August 13, 2014, 11:11:42 am
Yeah the macuahuitls have quite large contact area so there are pretty much two modes: glances off the armor, or total bloodbath :)Thats pretty much what a macuahitl does in real life.
Post by: -Nihil- on August 13, 2014, 06:32:43 pm
Thats pretty much what a macuahitl does in real life.
I remember an account of one cutting a horse's head off. It was left hanging by just a thing piece of skin.
Post by: heydude6 on August 18, 2014, 10:49:24 am
I think we need to lock the old one to prevent this from happening again
Here is the question that necroed the thread
How do I get orcs to use the freelancer's guild? I enabled pottery for all my orcs, but no one is attempting the jobs I assign.
Post by: Gamerlord on August 18, 2014, 10:54:03 am
Post by: heydude6 on August 18, 2014, 10:56:52 am
Post by: ferals on August 18, 2014, 05:12:05 pm
Now, back to business - i've got hooked up by masterwork for a while now, and lately i've decided to try other races. I've menaged to mess a little with warlocks, made world with succubi, but no matter how hard i try to play orcs, i just cant. It rejecects any custom world i try to make (Garden of Gaia, gears of war, etc). I havent really touched settings, except for things like no harder mining etc (im still getting grasp of this fail simulator ^^). Any ideas how to deal with it?
Post by: Gamerlord on August 19, 2014, 03:08:42 am
Since it's my first post there, hello everyone!Try changing the number of civilisations in the world, I had the same problem once and that fixed it IIRC.
Now, back to business - i've got hooked up by masterwork for a while now, and lately i've decided to try other races. I've menaged to mess a little with warlocks, made world with succubi, but no matter how hard i try to play orcs, i just cant. It rejecects any custom world i try to make (Garden of Gaia, gears of war, etc). I havent really touched settings, except for things like no harder mining etc (im still getting grasp of this fail simulator ^^). Any ideas how to deal with it?
Post by: ferals on August 19, 2014, 07:23:31 am
Post by: slay_mithos on August 19, 2014, 07:45:16 am
When adding many fortress defense civs, it starts to get a bit messier, because it's that much more civs for the spots, and some of them can actually wipe out standard civs pretty fast.
Post by: smakemupagus on August 19, 2014, 08:36:37 am
Post by: ferals on August 19, 2014, 04:42:27 pm
#edit 1
just removed all fortress defense races and changed end year to 50, still the same, used the same template as you(Garden of Gaia was it). Tried Geomagic too, but there was no difference.
#edit 2
Well that's weird, i've tried to gen world as orcs on clear masterwork (just unpacked it again) and it works, still idk what could cause the problem, i havent really touched too many settings, especially if it comes to things that could be game-changing (well no aquifiers, no harder-mining etc stuff).
Post by: smakemupagus on August 19, 2014, 04:48:26 pm
Post by: Splint on August 19, 2014, 04:53:02 pm
Post by: ferals on August 19, 2014, 05:03:37 pm
#edit
Now the settings are EXACTLY the same as earlier, second world generated without any problems. I have really no idea wth happened there earlier on.
Post by: smakemupagus on August 19, 2014, 06:21:02 pm
Post by: Splint on August 19, 2014, 06:27:30 pm
But isnt it weird that on almost the same settings it generates world without any problems? I've changed settings to those i've had earlier, but on clear installation, and still no problems there (except for fortress defense races, but thats the least of my concerns). Maybe it was something related to that i was generating few worlds earlier on (for warlocks and succubi)? I know it might sound funny, but its all i can think about now.
#edit
Now the settings are EXACTLY the same as earlier, second world generated without any problems. I have really no idea wth happened there earlier on.
Blind luck. The biomes were just too hostile for orcs to survive/spawn by the sound of it.
Post by: Insanegame27 on September 13, 2014, 03:56:12 am
Reasons: They. Are. Pure. Fucking. Badass
plus i believe that the Masterwork adamantine dai-katanas my artisians are constantly churning out are the best weapon ever. literally they have sliced entire dragons in half before. as well as obliterating every single dwarf "Siege" they send. and elfys, What in the name of the circus are elfys?
My troops usually follow the same layout every single time.
weak-ish uruks: i give them an aforementioned blade
strong-ish uruks: a lead mace never did anyone any good
ologs: i ALWAYS set these guys up as the leader of a squad. weak ones are given a blade and the mightiest one is given the artifact silver maul encrusted with oval lead cubochons and menacing with spikes of bloodsteel.
snagas: i just give them bows and quivers if i deem they are good enough.
so far the only deaths i've had were dodging.
More to the point, the largest reason i like orcs so much is their culture.
Post by: Gamerlord on September 13, 2014, 05:25:11 am
Post by: Insanegame27 on September 13, 2014, 07:34:13 am
Dude, upgrade your Ologs to deep bronze warhammers/wolfram morningstars. Trust me it's worth it.I'm actually hoping to get an artifact welded wolfram polehammer. It has happenned before.
Post by: Gamerlord on September 13, 2014, 07:59:05 am
Hell, by the mid/late-game of Orc mode I've pretty much forgotten that adamantine even exists; the goodies I can get from the raids take up all of my attention along with actually finding jobs for all the orcs I have. Otherwise they just start making friends and setting up for the tantrum spiral that the inevitable syndrome FB/titan causes. By year five/six it's pretty much normal for me to have multiple orcs who are friends with everyone else in the fort because they're part of my butchery/tannery group that has to exist to deal with cleaning up on sieges/collecting dreamwalk talismans and scalps yet sit around until a siege actually happens because they have no skills in anything else.
EDIT: Am I the only guy who hates child Artisans? The little bastards like to intercept my high-end weapon/armour making jobs (orichalcum/mithril/deep bronze gear) from the orcs I have set aside to do that stuff. I mean, why the hell is the kid who's a 'competent' in weaponcrafting taking a job over the guy who's legendary? I can't even set the workshop profile to take certain skill levels because so many of the high-end workshops have low-end jobs like refining metal/crushing stuff into powder and so my forge serf's need access and they're practically skill-less.
Post by: Arcvasti on September 13, 2014, 03:24:07 pm
Post by: Insanegame27 on September 13, 2014, 09:18:46 pm
A cloud of beer vapor has drifted nearby!
Is this good? because the wiki has nothing on it
Post by: slay_mithos on September 13, 2014, 09:21:53 pm
My guess is that good biomes' weather is harmless at worse, and benefic at best (healing rain).
Post by: Splint on September 13, 2014, 09:24:46 pm
I had an embark with clouds of "milk and honey", and it did absolutely nothing to my population.
My guess is that good biomes' weather is harmless at worse, and benefic at best (healing rain).
If I'm not mistaken milk and honey rain removes either hunger or thirst temporarily, while simultaneously freaking the dwarf/orc/whatever out.
Post by: slay_mithos on September 13, 2014, 09:29:19 pm
Post by: Splint on September 13, 2014, 09:49:11 pm
no freaking out, no good or bad thoughts, but I don't know about hunger/thirst.
That's odd. Anyone caught in it should be complaining of freakish weather; basically anything not regular old rain falls under this and upsets player creatures ("Has been caught in freakish weather lately.") if I'm not mistaken. I once had an orc flip shit and punch people over being caught in milk and honey rain multiple times.
Post by: slay_mithos on September 13, 2014, 10:07:16 pm
I know some clouds can blind (or worse), so I first avoided them, then I sent a test subject.
After a few tests with a few subjects, I concluded that it was just making an annoying windy sound in soundsense and made it hard to see (for me), but didn't affect the fort at all.
The race was the humans though, so maybe it might have something to do with it, somehow?
Post by: Splint on September 13, 2014, 10:27:12 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on September 14, 2014, 12:00:48 am
details
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Insanegame27 on September 15, 2014, 06:14:29 am
Post by: Meph on September 15, 2014, 06:18:36 am
Post by: Insanegame27 on September 15, 2014, 07:17:21 am
iron or ironbone.Plenty of both and still not working
Post by: Kartag on September 15, 2014, 07:34:22 am
Try rusty iron.iron or ironbone.Plenty of both and still not working
Post by: danmanthedog on September 15, 2014, 08:04:54 am
Post by: smakemupagus on September 15, 2014, 09:18:43 am
[INORGANIC:RUSTY_IRON]
[INORGANIC:RUSTY_STEEL]
[INORGANIC:STEEL]
3x bars, any combination for Damascene. Plus 3 firesafe blocks and an anvil.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Insanegame27 on September 15, 2014, 07:35:02 pm
In a new fort, got a mood and from that mood...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It was the only red dragon female in the world
Post by: Gamerlord on September 26, 2014, 04:12:25 am
Post by: smakemupagus on September 26, 2014, 09:37:40 am
Quote from: Insanegame27
It was the only red dragon female in the world
Hope it was delicious :D
Post by: Insanegame27 on September 28, 2014, 05:04:20 am
Diplomacy (i.e. the skill that in vanilla was "soap making")
Wait, so your telling me soap TALKS now?
Post by: smakemupagus on September 28, 2014, 12:55:13 pm
Meph changed a number of the professions, so when I looked up the answer in files for Gamerlord, it says "soap making" in the code. But I am pretty sure that the skill and profession that the player will see is "diplomacy". It's something you all will have to navigate in your mod too. If you look at the entity raws for orcs or another race you'll see the difference between the internal ID for each profession and its display name. You'll also want to refer to wiki to understand the difference between profession and skill tokens. The latter are what is used in reactions, and they're not always exactly the same as the corresponding profession token.
This has implications for graphics too. E.g. assuming you want your "diplomat" to be a wasp with a top hat and a monocle you'd have to assign that sprite to the "soap maker" profession.
Post by: slay_mithos on September 28, 2014, 02:07:13 pm
Post by: brioners on September 29, 2014, 09:20:59 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on September 29, 2014, 09:45:43 pm
It's [SKILL:SIEGECRAFT], which i believe is called either "engineering" or "siege engineering" in game.
Post by: Meph on September 30, 2014, 04:46:45 am
Post by: 94dima94 on October 01, 2014, 03:00:35 pm
1) This is REALLY an orc.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
2) Something just hit me, but i can't tell you what that was...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Meph on October 01, 2014, 03:11:22 pm
The second thing is a mage, the orc found a slab/secret/curse in woldgen and learned the secrets of toximancy. Its one of many rather hidden features.
Post by: slay_mithos on October 01, 2014, 05:15:12 pm
Post by: 94dima94 on October 02, 2014, 08:00:28 am
The second thing is a mage, the orc found a slab/secret/curse in woldgen and learned the secrets of toximancy. Its one of many rather hidden features.
I figured it out, but I think being "caught in a cloud of !" isn't supposed to happen...
Post by: Gamerlord on October 02, 2014, 08:17:26 am
Post by: smakemupagus on October 02, 2014, 09:50:19 am
The second thing is a mage, the orc found a slab/secret/curse in woldgen and learned the secrets of toximancy. Its one of many rather hidden features.
I figured it out, but I think being "caught in a cloud of !" isn't supposed to happen...
It's possibly one of a few hardcoded DF materials that the Toximancer slings around which aren't used much in the base game (FILTH_B and FILTH_Y). Both of which I would not be surprised if Toady didn't include all the tags for, since he doesn't use them and possibly had second thoughts about including them. Anyway the Toximancer is not an Orc mode thing so, not my call :)
Regarding Orc Orc, yeah I suspect that is taking the place of "Peasant". How common is this, do you generally see Orcs of other professions in adventure time or are a majority of them Orc Orcs?
Post by: smakemupagus on October 02, 2014, 10:45:40 am
Suggestion: A toothed axe/toothed spear/scimitar warrior society arms. It kinda sucks that those are the 'traditional' orc weapons and there isn't a warrior arms set that uses at least two of them. Maybe 'Horde Champion' or something like that for the name, I dunno.
Seawolves are scimitar as I think you know.
The Falcons are jagged spear & bola. Originally envisioned as something like the Orcish version of light husaria. I am thinking of swapping their sidearm to something more distinctive since kobold culture has claimed and renamed the "bold-bola" (lol? kobolds are kind of awesome). Maybe a flachette gun or atlatl. Bonus random item that has very little to do with orcs: the words "corsair" and "hussar" are thought to have a common root in a latin term for a sanctioned pirate/privateer ("cursarius")
I just didn't have a particular idea/inspiration for a domestic jagged axe kit, or great axe, for that matter. I guess axe & tomahawk would be useful at least if not particularly creative.
Cavebear is the axe-skill society, of course it doesn't count entirely since it's foriegn. Uses a jagged axe to create but actually it attacks more like a Dwarven battleaxe. Kind of a discontinuity.
Hmm, kind of an oversight that the damascene doesn't have any options at all for axes other than tomahawks.
Random side note, unless someone objects I'm probably going to scrap the "Rebalance Project's" non-society CORSAIR_ARMS, partly for design efficiency reasons because it is essentially the same thing as the preexisting Bayonetted Pistol. And also for economy reasons, because removing the common pistol from Freelancer's guild actually made it much harder to craft the real Seawolf arms. I have no problem letting the Freelancers guild or Tinkerer craft bayonetted pistols since apparently there's some demand for that.
Post by: 94dima94 on October 02, 2014, 11:16:25 am
Anyway the Toximancer is not an Orc mode thing so, not my call :)Whoops, sorry, I didn't know. ;)
Regarding Orc Orc, yeah I suspect that is taking the place of "Peasant". How common is this, do you generally see Orcs of other professions in adventure time or are a majority of them Orc Orcs?I went back to that place, and I found a few more. They are usually with "Orc mechanics" and similar, so it looks like they are supposed to be peasants, also because I didn't found any of those...
Post by: smakemupagus on October 02, 2014, 01:30:51 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Gamerlord on October 02, 2014, 09:41:54 pm
Oh okay. That reminds me, why does the Arcane Forge take the Stone Engraver skill and not the Weaponsmith skill?Suggestion: A toothed axe/toothed spear/scimitar warrior society arms. It kinda sucks that those are the 'traditional' orc weapons and there isn't a warrior arms set that uses at least two of them. Maybe 'Horde Champion' or something like that for the name, I dunno.
Seawolves are scimitar as I think you know.
The Falcons are jagged spear & bola. Originally envisioned as something like the Orcish version of light husaria. I am thinking of swapping their sidearm to something more distinctive since kobold culture has claimed and renamed the "bold-bola" (lol? kobolds are kind of awesome). Maybe a flachette gun or atlatl. Bonus random item that has very little to do with orcs: the words "corsair" and "hussar" are thought to have a common root in a latin term for a sanctioned pirate/privateer ("cursarius")
I just didn't have a particular idea/inspiration for a domestic jagged axe kit, or great axe, for that matter. I guess axe & tomahawk would be useful at least if not particularly creative.
Cavebear is the axe-skill society, of course it doesn't count entirely since it's foriegn. Uses a jagged axe to create but actually it attacks more like a Dwarven battleaxe. Kind of a discontinuity.
Hmm, kind of an oversight that the damascene doesn't have any options at all for axes other than tomahawks.
Random side note, unless someone objects I'm probably going to scrap the "Rebalance Project's" non-society CORSAIR_ARMS, partly for design efficiency reasons because it is essentially the same thing as the preexisting Bayonetted Pistol. And also for economy reasons, because removing the common pistol from Freelancer's guild actually made it much harder to craft the real Seawolf arms. I have no problem letting the Freelancers guild or Tinkerer craft bayonetted pistols since apparently there's some demand for that.
Post by: smakemupagus on October 02, 2014, 09:50:40 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on October 03, 2014, 03:40:28 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Gamerlord on October 03, 2014, 05:49:25 am
Post by: Meph on October 03, 2014, 06:56:53 am
Post by: smakemupagus on October 03, 2014, 04:11:11 pm
The non-playable races too now that I think about it, but that would be a bigger project.
Yep, well at the rate things are going these days it will be enough work to keep up with the playable races ;)
Post by: smakemupagus on October 04, 2014, 04:48:28 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Splint on October 04, 2014, 05:05:50 pm
Requires some form of tool kit (either gnomish ones or a generic one I'd guess,) and a gnome captive, as well as a firesafe block and an anvil to build (to heat metal sheets, provide a solid place to put in rivets, stuff like that.)
Requires power to operate.
Uses Engineering or maybe armoring to run reactions and determine quality.
Produces "Ramshackle steamarmor," or some variation thereoff which provides benefits similar to regular gnomish steam armor if I'm guessing right, but the effects are less pronounced and its not nearly as protective, representing the gnome deliberately making sub-par equipment for his captors; not that the orcs would notice, since any gnome armor they've gotten their hands on probably comes in "mangled-bits-of-wreckage" format.
May also possibly be usable to make gnomish robotic pets, though they'd require some special tool taken from gnomish workshops in raids.
It'd be very useful for snaga and dreamwalkers, giving them physical abilities comparable to above average common orcs/corsairs and giving common orcs/corsairs physical abilities on par with an above average uruk. Uruks/Ronin and Ologs, being the huge brutes they are, wouldn't gain benefits from it since they're already the superior castes (sort of anyway, for the ologs...) due to thier size and their likely general sense of superiority.
After all, only weak orcs need fancy outlander gizmos to make themselves strong!
Post by: heydude6 on October 04, 2014, 06:10:49 pm
Post by: Splint on October 04, 2014, 06:23:36 pm
Wait, what's so special about ronin again, I read their descriptions but they don't give enough information.
Clanless(?) wandering uruks who have bonuses to what would be considered martial skills of the samurai: Archery and swordsmanship. In contrast, regular uruks are less specialized and don't learn those skills any faster than other orcs (if I'm not mistaken.)
Likewise, Corsairs are common orcs with natural affinity for firearms, engineering/siege engine use, and appraisal.
Post by: smakemupagus on October 04, 2014, 07:28:38 pm
I dunno, I think the description has about the right amount of information. The defaults are like, "A short, sturdy creature fond of drink and industry." and "A medium-sized highly social mammalian carnivore. It has a keen sense of smell. It can be trained to obey commands." It's just a descriptive sentence, not a stat sheet :)
Spoiler: Searching for: caste:ronin (click to show/hide)
creature_orcfort_taigaorc.txt(1052): [CASTE:RONIN_FEMALE]
Found 2 occurrence(s) in 1 file(s)
Post by: Kbarbarossa on October 04, 2014, 09:48:48 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on October 04, 2014, 11:46:48 pm
On the other hand, Cosmic Gear. If all that's standing between orcish longboats and all other points in space-time are a couple of pointy-hatted munchkins, I'm thinking XCOM HQ is about to have a very bad day ^^ (mostly kidding)
Post by: Gamerlord on October 05, 2014, 01:03:41 am
Post by: smakemupagus on October 05, 2014, 04:43:23 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Sorta crazy, but maybe not so much crazier than the arenas/summoning circles that other races have. Personally I find the concept kind of delightful because it reminds me of steampunk space-fantasy like in the heyday of old M&M and Wizardry. But I know this wouldn't be, like, universally popular. Well, I think that Meph is giving us GUI toggle buttons sometime soon :)
Post by: Insanegame27 on October 05, 2014, 04:55:09 am
...
...
...
(snip)
Post by: smakemupagus on October 05, 2014, 05:23:10 am
** exists, but mood only and doesn't fire, i think
* ITEM_WEAPON_KNUCKLE_DUSTER_UPGRADE_TWO. Perhaps more powerful than a KSM actually ;)
Post by: Insanegame27 on October 05, 2014, 05:38:13 am
Moral of the story: Knuckle dusters arent actually what they appear to be. They have the power to deal heaps of damage. They are actually a giant machine akin to a handheld battering ram. A knuckle duster consists of a piston that pushes outward at supersonic speed, and the resounding supersonic boom is what does the separating of limbs
Post by: Gamerlord on October 05, 2014, 06:08:21 am
Post by: burrito25man on October 05, 2014, 06:33:37 am
I know that the porting process to 40.xx is pretty much on a standstill until DF Hack is up to par. But that doesnt mean that you can invite the greenskins to play ;D
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
To add more flavor items, such as the other weapons, paste in the ones you want and put a " [ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:3:3] " underneath, and then add " [WEAPON: {Weapon item tag} ]
Post by: smakemupagus on October 05, 2014, 03:48:16 pm
and this is when LOTR turns into HALO
I prefer to think of it as being when LOTR turns into the Silmarilion, but with the right team winning ^^
Quote from: Bilbo and Aragorn, except for one line fixed by orcish historians
He came unto the timeless halls
where shining fall the countless years,
and endless reigns the Elder King
in Ilmarin on Mountain sheer;
and words unheard were spoken then
of folk and Men and Elven-kin,
beyond the world were visions showed
forbid to those that dwell therein.
A ship then new they built for him
of mithril and of elven-glass
with shining prow; no shaven oar
nor sail she bore on silver mast:
the Silmaril as lantern light
and banner bright with living flame
to gleam thereon by Elbereth
herself was set, who thither came
and wings immortal made for him,
and laid on him undying doom,
to sail the shoreless skies and come
behind the Sun and light of Moon.
From Evereven's lofty hills
where softly silver fountains fall
his wings him bore, a wandering light,
beyond the mighty Mountain Wall.
From a World's End there he turned away,
and yearned again to find afar
his home through shadows journeying,
and burning as an island star
on high above the mists he came,
a distant flame before the Sun,
a wonder ere the waking dawn
where grey the Norland waters run.
And over Middle-earth he passed
and heard at last the weeping sore
of women and of elven-maids
in Elder Days, in years of yore.
But on him mighty doom was laid,
till Moon should fade, an orbéd star
to pass, and tarry never more
on Hither Shores where Mortals are;
for ever still a herald on
an errand that should never rest
to bear his shining lamp afar,the Flammifer of Westernesse."
and bring back whatever loot he thinks best
Post by: smakemupagus on October 05, 2014, 09:49:01 pm
I wasn't sure where to post this, but I feel that it would be best suited here, as it is about everyone's favorite orcs :P
I know that the porting process to 40.xx is pretty much on a standstill until DF Hack is up to par. But that doesnt mean that you can invite the greenskins to play ;D
Thanks :) i'm not too familiar with 40.xx yet so it's good to see what kind of things have to get changed.
Post by: Meph on October 06, 2014, 01:07:58 am
Post by: smakemupagus on October 06, 2014, 10:55:28 am
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. ADAMANTINE DAIKATANAS FOR ALL THE URUKS. PRAISE THE MOUNTAINHOME LOOT FOR IT'S GOODIES AND THE KOBOLD TRICKSTER HUT FOR THE ASSAULT PLANS. MAY ALL CREATION TREMBLE IN FEAR.
Nice :) Are we talking a lucky strike or two in an early fort? or industrial scale Orcish armada raiding here (if so I'm curious how many Mountainhome assaults you are able to pull off in a year or season or whatever).
All creatures, all plants, lots of new plants, all weapons, all tools with attacks, all ammo, some reactions, and... things 'n stuff. ;)
Among the things'n'stuff, Entity VALUES look fun. Those are new, right? burrito25man, I like the values you chose, but wiki says they've got to be between -50 and 50, so i it's possible that a couple are out of bounds.
Post by: burrito25man on October 06, 2014, 10:27:39 pm
Among the things'n'stuff, Entity VALUES look fun. Those are new, right? burrito25man, I like the values you chose, but wiki says they've got to be between -50 and 50, so i it's possible that a couple are out of bounds.
Oh! haha yeah, I thought I had already gone through and fixed that. Guess not :P
A lot of the values I used were based upon what is used for the goblins, so the stride, climb, and swim values oughta be updated. Something I've noticed though, speaking of gobos, is that when orcs siege they typically bring with them several goblins in the horde. Now, whether this is because of baby snatching or alliance I'm not sure, but it makes it more !!FUN!! to say that least ;D
Post by: Gamerlord on October 07, 2014, 03:06:12 am
Beginning of second year, scored two assault plans from a kobold trickster. First mountainhome raid - full adamantine load, plus the 'seond set' of loot (dwarf) gave me another assault plan. Second MH raid gives just adamantine, third adamantine + assault plan from secondary loot and the fourth mountainhome raid gave just adamantine. I had two invasions from it, but it was worth it. By the end of the second year (thanks to concentrating ALL my efforts on this) I had four Uruk's (my current military leading squad) wielding adamantine daikatanas. It's really easy to get rusty iron coins if you have gold on your map and a single lucky raid on the elves gives you pretty much infinite wood from an elf captive. Plus that with some copper daggers and your freaking set.HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. ADAMANTINE DAIKATANAS FOR ALL THE URUKS. PRAISE THE MOUNTAINHOME LOOT FOR IT'S GOODIES AND THE KOBOLD TRICKSTER HUT FOR THE ASSAULT PLANS. MAY ALL CREATION TREMBLE IN FEAR.
Nice :) Are we talking a lucky strike or two in an early fort? or industrial scale Orcish armada raiding here (if so I'm curious how many Mountainhome assaults you are able to pull off in a year or season or whatever).
Post by: smakemupagus on October 07, 2014, 03:54:31 am
I just keep getting crossbows, battlepicks, and fungiwood ::)
Post by: smakemupagus on October 07, 2014, 10:29:16 am
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=6941
I may just change our DEFAULT_TYPE:DARK_FORTRESS to something else.
Post by: Meph on October 07, 2014, 11:13:27 am
Post by: VonPärre on October 07, 2014, 11:43:21 am
Post by: smakemupagus on October 07, 2014, 12:06:06 pm
Yes I know and appreciate it :D
@VonParre
Thanks! and thanks for the note. That should be fixable
@Gamerlord
>> a single lucky raid on the elves gives you pretty much infinite wood from an elf captive
Yes, especially now with the retaliatory sieges coming, so there is plenty of supply of meat on hand to spare for the elf worker, don't need to butcher aurochs or forgotten beasts for him any more :)
Post by: Illogical_Blox on October 09, 2014, 09:28:14 pm
Also, what's Ironwood used for?
Post by: smakemupagus on October 09, 2014, 11:48:25 pm
There's a sawmill shanty in the Goblin ghetto, you'll need a raider's drydock, siege workshop for ballista parts, freelancer's guild for rusty iron shillings -> pick up goblin migrant -> sawmill. Great for mass bins & barrels.
.... i don't really know what a Wood Splitting Block is exactly, so if that didn't answer, then no we don't have it ^^
>> Also, what's Ironwood used for?
burn it for charcoal at the factory, except
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Gamerlord on October 10, 2014, 03:07:55 am
Post by: smakemupagus on October 10, 2014, 10:21:20 am
Post by: kamikazi1231 on October 10, 2014, 02:02:20 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on October 10, 2014, 02:25:37 pm
I usually only bother with pumpstacks for magma weapons though, i find raiding for fluidcaster much more convenient most of the time, although it can be frustrating if the RNG messes with you. There's a blood of armok -> fluidcaster foundation at the arcane forge too.
a picture i like from the old thread
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: smakemupagus on October 10, 2014, 03:53:58 pm
Post by: kamikazi1231 on October 10, 2014, 09:29:17 pm
would a "make pump components from bars" efficient batch reaction help? I'm not familiar with how many bars you have to use up if you craft the pump components at the forge.
You know I totally forgot about glass. I just remember some talk a while back that glass was "magma proof" in that it would sometimes melt. I wasn't sure if that applied to stacks or not.
A batch reaction might be a cool addition. It would take five bars. It takes one bar for the screw, three for the pipe section, and one for the block, which I assumed would be made of metal because I also during that embark had no magma safe stone. Lots of trees to burn down though.
Honestly though if glass is a workable option that's fine. A goblin grinding rock into sand provides enough to get the job done I'm sure.
Post by: smakemupagus on October 10, 2014, 11:37:23 pm
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=6732
testing state: clean errorlog on embark
features
* rollback to an older magic system that worked more reliably
* various balance, continuity, unneccesary-complexity-reducing, & community suggested tweaks
* small boosts to underused buildings like human labor cell, heavy weapons armory, & tavern
* expanded gnomish Outlander tech. Pillage diodes or run your own semiconductor sweatshop to unlock high tech crossbows, guns, and turret guns at Steamfoundry and heavy weapons lab
* some stuff to do with warpstone here and there
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Gamerlord on October 11, 2014, 02:10:29 am
Post by: smakemupagus on October 11, 2014, 02:21:02 am
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=6732
Post by: Gamerlord on October 11, 2014, 03:29:04 am
Post by: Illogical_Blox on October 11, 2014, 04:32:35 pm
Now for the weird part. No one is going out to get him (he's currently disabled) or the corpse of the albratross, and its not appearing in the job list, even though I have a hospital and refuse stockpile.
Post by: smakemupagus on October 11, 2014, 04:43:08 pm
assisting wounded is a notoriously low priority job, there's nothing specific to orc mode about it though
was this guy armed? giant albatross are, like, 4 times the size of a human or orc :)
Post by: Illogical_Blox on October 11, 2014, 04:52:20 pm
re: albatross corpse, did you check the relevant standing orders? (gather refuse from outside, for example)First part: heavy facepalm. THEY DON'T.
assisting wounded is a notoriously low priority job, there's nothing specific to orc mode about it though
was this guy armed? giant albatross are, like, 4 times the size of a human or orc :)
Second part: assist wounded just... isn't on the job list. He seems to be recovering, so hopefully he'll get up.
Question: he only had a wooden training sword. I HATE the fact that all creatures are one square in the game; it causes stuff like this!
EDIT: OK, he's in the hospital. Unfortunately, he has a grudge with the shaman. I guess he's annoyed at being left in the wilderness. ;D
Post by: smakemupagus on October 11, 2014, 08:24:00 pm
1) This is REALLY an orc.(Later, I also found an Uruk Uruk).Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Figured this out finally. Another odd little artifact of the orcs' Github era -- somebody added "[CASTE_PROFESSION_NAME:STANDARD:Orc:Orcs]" and etc. to every caste. I wish those guys had kept change notes ::)
Post by: Meph on October 11, 2014, 08:29:13 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on October 11, 2014, 08:37:37 pm
Github automatically keep change notes about every change, the thing is just that you need to understand github to find them. -.-
aha. that sort of makes sense :D
Post by: Meph on October 11, 2014, 08:40:15 pm
Post by: Splint on October 11, 2014, 08:46:48 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on October 11, 2014, 08:47:47 pm
So now its back to Orc Peasant? :)
dunno. for a moment i was thinking of going with "hai" ("folk" in black speech -- uruk hai, olog hai, snaga hai, etc.) But then that would beg the question of why all the other professions and the whole mod aren't translated into orcish ;)
yes, Splint .. clanorc is probably a good english equivalent :D
Post by: Meph on October 11, 2014, 08:55:42 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on October 11, 2014, 08:57:55 pm
Yeah i think it might be have to be "snaga peon, orc peon, uruk clanorc"
Post by: Illogical_Blox on October 11, 2014, 09:55:29 pm
Post by: Meph on October 11, 2014, 10:16:01 pm
Post by: Illogical_Blox on October 12, 2014, 02:44:07 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on October 12, 2014, 06:37:22 pm
v6.0.OF1 - see notes above
V6.0.OF2
* custom CASTE_PROFESSION_NAME:STANDARD (snaga & orc peon /uruk & olog hai /dreamwalker novice)
* enabled several dozen KOBOLD_BURN__* reactions at kiln related to greenware firing
* created corresponding shaping reax at Muckraker
*- i think that we don't need separate reax for each type of clay, trying using GET_MATERIAL_FROM_REAGENT:clay:FIRED_MAT instead
* created several leaded glaze inorganics (neutral, turquoise copper, scarlet iron, and white tin)
* reax for applying leaded glaze @ kiln to jug, statue, large pot, crafts, and any object
* reax for creating leaded glaze @ muckraker
I understand now why people changed the CASTE_PROFESSION_NAME to orc, uruk, etc ... -- that is what allows you to see caste on the embark screen, rather than just "peasant" (peon, hai, novice, etc.) On the other hand it's what gives you "Orc orcs" so it's a trade off. Let me know which you prefer.
Test Status:
- No errors on world gen
- bone/wood thrown javelins from atlatls great against giant animals; glance off dwarven armor though (as intended)
- New Muckraker & kiln reax successfully used to make fire clay stoneware large pots
- leaded glazes working, suitably crimson colored statues overlooking dining hall
Post by: -Nihil- on October 17, 2014, 04:04:39 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on October 17, 2014, 06:23:56 pm
Quote from: burrows bug
putting aside possible chance of user error (broken stockpile links, etc.); there is an occasional pathfinding bug in all custom reactions including those in vanilla DF. It is usually (not always) triggered when the stockpile and workshop are in separate burrows, even if the burrows are inactive. You can rearrange burrows, or have the manager run the reaction. After 1 time the manager does it the workshop often becomes normally active again.
Having the Manager attempt the reaction is usually a good thing to try, because if it is not the pathfinding bug, you'll often get a helpful error message.
Post by: -Nihil- on October 17, 2014, 06:33:02 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on October 17, 2014, 06:43:17 pm
Quote from: buildings page of orc manual
Boneforge
The boneforge is where orcs can use ancient techniques to form ironbone and bloodsteel. Ironebone is formed from one stack of bones and two bars of ash. It can be transmuted into the stronger bloodsteel with a barrel of blood and an additional bar of ash.
Logs can be reduced to ash at the boneforge, and blood extracted from meat into barrels. Be warned that an entire stack of meat is required for a barrel of blood.
Post by: -Nihil- on October 17, 2014, 07:49:08 pm
Boneforge. Where in documentation says kitchen, so we can remove it? (sorry about that -- it's hard to keep the manuals up to date, partly because it's hard to know what people don't know, and partly because it's super tedious ;P )
In the Kitchen entry on the V6.1 Manual
Quote
You can use meat to make ground meat or, combined with vermin remains, sausages. You can also extract blood from fresh meat, for all kinds of purposes from sacrifices to dark magic.
The Masterwork Wiki has the same text under the kitchen.
http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Masterwork:Kitchen (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Masterwork:Kitchen)
The following part of the getting started section seems to imply it is from the kitchen as well and boneforges are something you create afterwards.
Quote
Once you have access to massive quantities of enemies to butcher, add extraction of blood to barrels in your meat-works, and add Boneforges to create bars of ironbone and bloodsteel that can be used at your forges.
Post by: smakemupagus on October 17, 2014, 08:20:23 pm
Thanks!
Well, someone (else... i.e. not me) should update the wiki :D
Post by: -Nihil- on October 17, 2014, 08:46:18 pm
Oh, the dwarf part of the manual. OK.
Thanks!
Well, someone (else... i.e. not me) should update the wiki :D
I guess I should have looked through the orc part more. I just found a building that was supposed to make blood and couldn't get it to work.
Post by: smakemupagus on October 17, 2014, 09:56:38 pm
Post by: kamikazi1231 on October 19, 2014, 02:38:42 pm
Also im loving that my uruks with smaller weapons are wielding a bloodsteel kiteshield on each arm along with their weapon. Nothing stops them except fatigue from wiping out multiple stacked sieges from raiding abuss haha.
Post by: smakemupagus on October 19, 2014, 03:08:45 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on October 19, 2014, 04:14:25 pm
V6.0 OF3
* Molten pit batch reax accepts any iron bearing stone, not just pure iron
*! want to include limonite and magnetite which have no way to purify
*- slightly debuffed iron bar production, increased rusty iron byproduct
* Removed SACRED_ATLATL_ORC reac permit (reac not used anymore)
* Sharkey's Firewater @meadhall improved slightly (no longer decreases agility)
* Blackdraught Mead @meadhall improved greatly (much longer effect, added [SYN_CLASS:MEDICINE_EPIDEMIC][SYN_CLASS:MEDICINE_BLOOD_PRESSURE])
*! allows orcs a mechanism to combat disease
// updated
* bug fix: steamfoundry reactions fixed (brass mechanisms don't exist at forge - use brass bar plus any mechanism instead)
Post by: Hefateus on October 19, 2014, 11:48:10 pm
Post by: VonPärre on October 20, 2014, 03:16:02 am
They also seem perfect way to keep for clean of small clothing those stunties bring to clutter your fort.
Post by: smakemupagus on October 20, 2014, 09:52:38 am
@VonParre, I am pretty sure that metal armor stops negative clothing thoughts, so that's probably the easiest solution. There should also be a temperature-proof leather to make from netherwood at the Nethermill outlander tech building, although please let us know if it works if you try it. i've found that Netherwood is not always quite as isothermic as I expect when it comes to magical shenanigans, like, i found that netherwood magma tanker trams are in fact !!FUN!!
Post by: vcordie on October 20, 2014, 12:31:19 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on October 20, 2014, 12:52:52 pm
Dumb question: How do I enable the ashland elves, chaos dwarves, etc etc in the new gui? I want ot have access to the orc's trading partner buildings.
Not a dumb question at all ^^
The "evil allies" were removed from Masterwork in favor of more varied evil races like the Naga, Werewolves, Succubi, and so on. As a side effect you can no longer trade for the outland allies' tech through normal caravan trading, but you should be able to get them now at the Caravanserai Bazaars.
Nethermill: Kobold trickster Scout mission (rare), Dark Tower raid (rare), World Tree special loot (rare), Drow raid (uncommon), purchase at Farmer's Bazaar (100%)
Auxilla Barracks: Kobold trickster Scout mission (rare), Mountainhome special loot (common), purchase at Arms Bazaar (100%)
Ashland Glassworks: Kobold trickster Scout mission (rare), Mines raid (rare), World Tree special loot (rare), Drow raid (uncommon), purchase at Common Bazaar (100%)
Rogues Tavern: Kobold trickster Scout mission (rare), [not currently on any loot tables -- probably an oversight], purchase at Shadowbroker (100%)
Post by: vcordie on October 20, 2014, 01:10:06 pm
edit:
Also, is ghoshash snazaga still a good representation of orc fortress right now and how to properly start out and play orc forts?
Post by: smakemupagus on October 20, 2014, 02:20:22 pm
Yeah Ghoshash Snazaga is still pretty up to date. G.S. stuck primarily to the core tribal industries: warcrafter, fletcher, and transitioning into factory, raiding, & damascene for the most part, and that's all changed very little. The biggest general change was the addition of counter-attacks that trigger against raids.
Some things are tweaked or adjusted to changes in the rest MDF, like your other question. The Dreamwalkers industry and Warriors' Meadhall are both powered by loot from fallen enemies now (souls and scalps), but it's reasonably simple. Totem Poles and Tanners will queue the prep-work automatically and you just have to use the dream-talismans as is, or craft Soulgems and War Standards as needed.
Post by: vcordie on October 20, 2014, 02:36:24 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on October 20, 2014, 03:22:16 pm
Post by: vcordie on October 20, 2014, 06:09:26 pm
Post by: LMeire on October 20, 2014, 06:43:49 pm
Post by: Gamerlord on October 20, 2014, 10:55:46 pm
Also, HOLY FUCK GIANT WOLVERINES EVERYWHERE WHY.
Post by: smakemupagus on October 20, 2014, 11:51:08 pm
Is there any way to save a warrior who gets hit by a Frostskald's ice blast? They're really awesome, but they keep hitting my own side.
Also, HOLY FUCK GIANT WOLVERINES EVERYWHERE WHY.
Dunno. Maybe surgery will help? ???
(orcs don't have malpractice lawyers right?)
Post by: Gamerlord on October 21, 2014, 08:43:49 am
P.S. What is the nerve staple good for? I used it on a couple of orcs and now they're just useless.
Post by: smakemupagus on October 21, 2014, 09:51:42 am
Yeah, good idea.
>> P.S. What is the nerve staple good for? I used it on a couple of orcs and now they're just useless.
Is an Alpha Centauri reference, the ultimate police state preventive action to crack down on the drone riots. It's supposed to be a measure to stop tantrumers/borderline berzerkers before they go melancholy or on a rampage (giving them NOEMOTION, making them blind, and reducing their speed). How useless are they? I thought they should be fine on low skill jobs. If it's making the stapled workers really useless i'll tweak it, reducing the speed penalty, or making the effect wear off after a (long) time.
There's tobacco now from rat weed, which is a better happyness solution for productive citizens.
edit.
one application i like (the idea anyway... is not well tested yet) nerve stapling for is if you're in a world in which you've had an unhappy or even abandoned fort, and you start a new one, it sometimes happens that you can get waves of semi-murderous migrants. Run all the newcomers through the nerve stapling chambers rather than wait for some fell mood to strike or an angry Olog to punt your shaman into the volcano. Other users had asked for a way to blind siege operators.
Post by: Gamerlord on October 21, 2014, 10:26:44 pm
Post by: Kbarbarossa on October 22, 2014, 12:32:53 pm
Just be careful not to do too much, these are orcs, not elves, after all. ;)
Post by: CptCrunchy on October 22, 2014, 03:49:52 pm
Weirdly enough I haven't seen an Olog since the update.
I think Ologs are a lot less common now, about the rarity of Ronin. I was checking the manual the other day and it says it's about a 5% chance, I feel like it was a much higher chance before
Post by: kamikazi1231 on October 22, 2014, 10:14:36 pm
Any ideas?
Post by: Gamerlord on October 22, 2014, 10:16:28 pm
Post by: kamikazi1231 on October 22, 2014, 10:24:45 pm
I think you need to build them above ground.
I tried both above and below ground. I pause quickly in succession and see that the wood turns from (wood) into x(wood)x for a brief moment before disappearing. Any idea what this means? Other wood buildings I have aren't doing that.
When I select the wood inside the totem with x(wood)x it says "the item is showing some wear."
*edit* I'm happy to report that the last one I built stayed up. The ones disappearing were occurring in mid summer. I'm still in midsummer but a bit later and it's raining. That being said it doesn't get hot enough in my region for water to evaporate, grass stays green, and no other wood buildings were doing this. Strange, I'll see if the totem stays up through the next summer.
Post by: Arcvasti on October 22, 2014, 11:29:45 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on October 22, 2014, 11:44:51 pm
I've ran into a pretty strange bug. Using the official main MWDF download 6.1. Masterwork tileset with ironhand walls. Plaing in orc mode. I've been constructing totem poles and within a few seconds they are auto deconstructing. The totem remains but the wood used in the building is gone afterwards. It's not a fire or anything like that from too hot of an environment and other wood structures are staying up. But every totem pole just disappears and leaves a totem after a few real life seconds.
Any ideas?
Sorry, i have no idea, it hasn't happened to me. anyone else getting this too?
Post by: vcordie on October 23, 2014, 03:47:20 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on October 23, 2014, 03:59:37 pm
Post by: vcordie on October 23, 2014, 04:02:17 pm
Also, what weapon skill does the machultiaasoighsgohsg (I give up, the big sword the tribal crafter can make), use? swordman I assume?
Post by: kamikazi1231 on October 23, 2014, 04:20:22 pm
thanks smake. How early could one set up the factory. I find that the manuals is REALLY lacking a lot of stuff, like build materials for the buildings and the skills used to create and operate it, the items page is just awful, doesn't even tell me what skill each weapon uses. No offence (just trying to give you some constructive criticism here). Maybe in the next update an o verhaul of the orc section of the manual could be done? It's really needed.
Also, what weapon skill does the machultiaasoighsgohsg (I give up, the big sword the tribal crafter can make), use? swordman I assume?
Yea it uses the sword skill. It's pretty awesome too. I started my first two uruks in the starting 7 with bone shields and those obsidian swords. There were legendary in no time and wiped out a twelve strong dwarf siege that showed up early.
I believe the factory only needs a sawblade and blocks. So get yourself a few charcoal, and get glass production up or a few quick ironbone bars.
Also smake I noticed that the boneforge reduced a wood to ash and you get one ash for one wood. The normal non-magma smelter has the option of burning one wood into three ash with no fuel input at all. Wasn't sure if that was intended or not, but it's a bit OP compared to the boneforge and the same price to build.
Post by: Arcvasti on October 23, 2014, 04:24:40 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on October 23, 2014, 04:44:16 pm
There is no point in turning it into a giant database with every property of every item. The raws are already a giant database with every property of every item, and it's easier by far to search text than HTML. If something other than that is needed i encourage y'all to get wiki'ing ^^
>> Also smake I noticed that the boneforge reduced a wood to ash and you get one ash for one wood.
>> The normal non-magma smelter has the option of burning one wood into three ash with no fuel input at all.
nope, that's an oversight. Thanks!
Post by: kamikazi1231 on October 23, 2014, 05:55:19 pm
Post by: CyberSpyder on October 25, 2014, 01:08:37 am
Post by: smakemupagus on October 25, 2014, 01:50:52 am
presumably something vanilla, like trying to pick up dropped socks from invaders. same solutions as vanilla (forbid spent ammo, forbid death items, use/abuse burrows)
Post by: CyberSpyder on October 25, 2014, 02:25:14 am
Post by: Gamerlord on October 25, 2014, 02:50:49 am
Post by: kamikazi1231 on October 25, 2014, 03:47:46 am
I find them boring if played dwarf style. Instead I keep fort population around 60 to 70. Everyone gets lamellar armor and a ironbone weapon (except miner and wood cutter). Over time each one gets a war direwolf too. The uruks get dibs on full time military training and the best metal gear I can scavenge but when sieges come I activate the whole camp into a massive force.
Post by: smakemupagus on October 25, 2014, 04:28:22 am
Post by: CyberSpyder on October 25, 2014, 12:08:50 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on October 25, 2014, 12:21:28 pm
* in my experience. if you're seeing something else i'm interested but confused ^^
Post by: Splint on October 25, 2014, 01:30:28 pm
Orcs being orcs, they'll probably be far more prone to attacking things regardless if it looks at them funny/interrupts thier daily plant killing tasks, which may or may not be a good thing. Also those having an extreme militant personality, despite not being a weapon master, will likely train religiously for battle.
Post by: Meph on October 25, 2014, 02:00:57 pm
Post by: Splint on October 25, 2014, 02:36:01 pm
MDF ist still on 34.11, they dont have the new traits yet
I know, but someone apparently had one (or more?) workers attack things in 34.11. Just wanted to point out that sort of behavior will probably be the norm for orcs once fully ported over, what with them generally being belligerent jerks.
Post by: LMeire on October 25, 2014, 03:12:21 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: smakemupagus on October 25, 2014, 05:06:52 pm
Splint, I like that you call herbalism "plant killing"
... as long as it's still possible to run big stable forts (which it is for sure -- my wife plays sort of conservative and has like a 75%+ stable fort rate) i'd say little situations like this are working as intended. we'll keep an eye on it for new version. in the meantime with tobacco for mini-spirals and nerve stapling / promotion to warchief for the dangerous sociopaths i think we're all right :D
Post by: Splint on October 25, 2014, 07:23:17 pm
Post by: vcordie on October 28, 2014, 12:57:43 pm
Post by: CyberSpyder on October 28, 2014, 02:28:59 pm
Post by: vcordie on October 28, 2014, 03:01:08 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on October 29, 2014, 10:39:57 am
Post by: vcordie on October 29, 2014, 10:47:11 am
Also, what do you normally arm your first militia with? Machultis? Claws? Jagged spears?
How's the obsidian fair as a weapon material? Is it sharp, or dull like vanilla obsidian.
Post by: smakemupagus on October 29, 2014, 12:47:53 pm
Is that a developer version or the current version we use?
Also, what do you normally arm your first militia with? Machultis? Claws? Jagged spears?
How's the obsidian fair as a weapon material? Is it sharp, or dull like vanilla obsidian.
i guess you'd call it a developer version? not in the latest MDF. see previous posts or the change log in download for info. Nothing huge, just lots of little things (bug and balance fixes, catching up with some small changes in the larger MDF world, tried to streamline a couple things that were overly complicated, etc.)
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=6732
obsidian weapons reactions have [FORCE_EDGE], so they are better than nothing and probably better than clubs for an early militia, and fine for weapon traps especially against unarmored targets.
>> Also, what do you normally arm your first militia with? Machultis? Claws? Jagged spears?
Depends what kind of enemies i'm expecting. Giant wildlife, stranglers, beakdogs - ie.. unarmored- you can't go wrong with macuahuitl at least for uruks. The contact area is so large that lesser orcs aren't always effective. I usually set the invading Dwarves and Elves to attack a little earlier than the current default settings, which means you need to at least mix in some armor piercing ASAP (jagged spears or claws).
Claws are specialized weapons, they are great for punching through armor and disabling an enemy with pain (stuckin/twisting) but are multigrasp and take a long time to finish off a foe, so it's not the best weapon by a long shot to equip the whole squad with.
Bows are the best all around range weapon, especially with fletcher -> composite bows available early.
Post by: CyberSpyder on October 29, 2014, 01:11:50 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on October 29, 2014, 01:47:18 pm
Eliminating exploits is a worthy goal but my initial thought is that this one is mostly harmless -- after all you can do the same thing essentially with the vanilla reactions for magma melting and reforging ammo -- so at some point I'm OK with letting the player decide. Also one could think of it as simulated training for a journeyman smith, until we can have lectures and demonstrations for civilian guilds, i'd rather them train by banging the same piece of rusty iron into a blade a hundred times than by reading some dusty ol' book ;)
I wonder if a small nerf doesn't really change much, while a big nerf might those reactions not worth using at all, even for its intended non-loophole purpose. When you can melt and reforge for the same zero fuel cost and end up with non-makeshift items.
Post by: CyberSpyder on October 29, 2014, 02:34:41 pm
Anyway, it wouldn't have to be a very significant chance of failure to close the loop there - if I was designing it myself, I'd probably set it at 90 or 95%. Still a very reliable way to get decent armor, just not a source of infinite training. The other training reactions at, say, the anatomical theater or the blood bowl seem to operate along similar lines as that, too.
Post by: smakemupagus on October 29, 2014, 03:18:18 pm
With harder smithing, though, don't all melt-forge chains result in lost metal? That was certainly my assumption.
That's probably right, but I don't really melt-forge in masse quantity, so i've not really studied it in detail.
>> Anyway, it wouldn't have to be a very significant chance of failure to close the loop there - if I was designing it myself, I'd probably set it at 90 or 95%.
>> Still a very reliable way to get decent armor, just not a source of infinite training. The other training reactions at, say, the anatomical theater or the blood bowl seem to operate
>> along similar lines as that, too.
Yeah, i think that i agree with you, i just never thought of it as a training reaction before :) I guess the other potential solution is to make it require a second reagent, flux or something.
Post by: kamikazi1231 on October 29, 2014, 07:47:31 pm
Yeah, i think that i agree with you, i just never thought of it as a training reaction before :) I guess the other potential solution is to make it require a second reagent, flux or something.
What about requiring a piece of tough leather? If I want to make a gnomes armor fit on my giant orcs without bursting off in battle some good tough leather straps would be necessary.
Post by: Gamerlord on October 30, 2014, 04:21:10 am
Post by: smakemupagus on October 30, 2014, 11:17:20 am
Post by: vcordie on October 30, 2014, 12:47:30 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on October 30, 2014, 02:26:09 pm
>>broke world gen. Couldn't place tagia orcs at all in world gen
Sorry, I don't understand specifically what this means. You got an error message?
Post by: smakemupagus on October 30, 2014, 02:31:04 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on October 30, 2014, 02:50:01 pm
Post by: salsaheaven on November 15, 2014, 12:55:57 pm
But I still have some questions:
1) At the Boneforge I cant extract blood. Reaction is red. I butcher a ton of animals and have more than 2k meat now. And I have wooden barrels and rock pots left. Any Idea?
2) Is the lamellar armor considered mail or leather? (for uniforms). And when I craft a lamellar set it seems to be missing a chestpiece.
3) I dont have the knowledge to look up in raws, so: Where does the reaction "weave cloth set" take part? Making everything for itself is tedious.
4) Can I see the outcome of raids somewhere?
The gameplay is much more streamlined that the dwarf mode, which seems very cluttered. Thanks for the mod and thanks for your answers!
Post by: Splint on November 15, 2014, 01:42:51 pm
Lamellar body armor is produced as part of an armor set. Can still make cloaks though.
Raid outcomes can be seen prior to having the materials (so just forbid one of the things you need for a given raid and have a look at what you might get.)
Clothing can be bulk produced in the kobold textile hut if that's what you were after.
Post by: smakemupagus on November 15, 2014, 01:59:01 pm
Looks like Splint answered your questions. Try having the manager run the blood reaction if it stays red, please let me know if it continues not to work for you. The reaction looks OK in the raws unless i'm missing something.
Thanks for the nice words about the mod :)
Post by: salsaheaven on November 15, 2014, 03:23:17 pm
I captured a Kobold, that poor fellow is now sewing his hands bloody. :D
And after I told the manager to collect blood i finally get some. It is slow but steady. Might be just because of distance, though.
Now lets raid the humans. :-)
Oh, and the bloodsteel macuahuitl just cuts through dwarves.
Post by: Weirdsound on November 18, 2014, 12:58:38 pm
If your put your tribal arms station or whatever it is called near your meat/bone industry, and tell it to make rock weapons, your Orcs will make clubs and mauls out of Black Smoke, Rotting Smell, Bacteria, Ect. This alone isn't too bad, as such weapons seem too light to be of much use (although the are nice trade goods, and would likely be helpful for the justice system), but I discovered the true exploit after buying a bunch of weapons of the caravan, and telling my molten pit to melt them down on repeat.
Several minutes later, I check in on the pit, and notice the Orc there is working with a Black Smoke Maul, which he successfully turns into a bar of Rusty Iron.
I had built the outdoor section of my fort on top of a volcano, and the surrounding lands, so my metal and butchery/refuse industries were right next to each other. I had made, completely on accident, a very efficient metal factory; Things were cremated into ash, which becomes Ironbone/Bloodsteel as usual, and black smoke, which becomes weapons and then rusty iron (and other potentially useful byproducts) via the molten pit.
Post by: slay_mithos on November 18, 2014, 01:34:48 pm
A lot of things will be weird for you because of that.
Post by: Weirdsound on November 18, 2014, 02:15:28 pm
Should be a way to turn those vaporizing rocks off on the .exe when you turn off temp, but I guess that isn't an Orc issue.
The ability to melt the Rock Weapons down at the molten pit in the first place is still a bit iffy though... I suspect I could replicate the situation with a Clay Oven and a Clay Gathering zone near the tribal workshop.
Post by: smakemupagus on November 18, 2014, 11:56:22 pm
The ability to melt the Rock Weapons down at the molten pit in the first place is still a bit iffy though... I suspect I could replicate the situation with a Clay Oven and a Clay Gathering zone near the tribal workshop.
OK, thanks for report. Dwarf Fortress doesn't actually bookkeep stone and metal separately, so I may not be able to close this loophole without scrapping the reactions, but i'll think about it a bit. Not sure it's worth asking Meph to add a new reaction class to all metals.
Post by: smakemupagus on November 19, 2014, 12:50:02 am
Should be a way to turn those vaporizing rocks off on the .exe when you turn off temp, but I guess that isn't an Orc issue.
It should be that the non-functional vaporizing effects will be disabled if you deactivate Misc.Features/ Miscellaneous/ SmokeEffects in the GUI.
Post by: Weirdsound on November 19, 2014, 03:04:08 am
The ability to melt the Rock Weapons down at the molten pit in the first place is still a bit iffy though... I suspect I could replicate the situation with a Clay Oven and a Clay Gathering zone near the tribal workshop.
OK, thanks for report. Dwarf Fortress doesn't actually bookkeep stone and metal separately, so I may not be able to close this loophole without scrapping the reactions, but i'll think about it a bit. Not sure it's worth asking Meph to add a new reaction class to all metals.
I got burnt out on and gave up coding years ago, but would it be possible to work the other way and just but a tag on the Rock Clubs and Mauls that make them incompatible with the reaction?
Post by: smakemupagus on November 19, 2014, 03:39:46 am
...
The good news is, Meph already included a REACTION_CLASS:METAL in the metal template. So, solution is straightforward after all. (in fact, I knew this at one point, and this is why it should be the case that the Raider's Drydock can't use clay clubs in weapon kits)
Post by: Weirdsound on November 19, 2014, 12:07:23 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on November 19, 2014, 12:23:33 pm
Post by: Hefateus on November 20, 2014, 12:55:49 am
Post by: Weirdsound on November 20, 2014, 01:15:19 pm
They are definitely tools already! Tools go under a specific subset of a Goods stockpile, so it is not too hard to pile them in a place separate from trade goods.
Thanks. That helps alot. One nitpicky thing I did notice though while I had it at the depot, though, is that for an item that takes a crapload of resources to make, the Longboat isn't worth all that much. Not that I'd ever advocate trading one, but seeing it listed at 200 or so Orcbucks just bugs me a bit. I don't have DF right in front of me, so I can't check, but I suspect that it is less valuable than the ballista parts I put into it.
If you make a stockpile for tools and also designate it by material types you can do a pretty decent job of keeping things where you want them. Example; Tin for kobold migrants to stockpile them near the workshop that you can use to get maps.
Still havn't gotten around to messing with all the Orc buildings as of yet, none of my Orc Forts have gotten established enough that I feel comfortable experimenting with the Fancy Stuff. I'll play around a bit once I have my military suited up (between making bloodsteel and buying and melting scimitars, I'm almost there resource wise, but I haven't gotten a decent armorer yet), and figure out how to make the most use of the Orc Training Workshops as training spears (and thus danger rooms) seem unavailable to them.
On a related note, are handcrafted weapons worth it? The Elves left a bunch of Mithril in my trap corridor. Should I take the extra effort and resources to grind the bars into dust and make Katanas, or am I better off just cranking out Axes and Scimitars at the regular forge?
Post by: Splint on November 20, 2014, 01:29:27 pm
Katanas and polehammers are all-round better weapons, but if you need to crank out lots of weaponry quickly, sabers (I refuse to call them scimitars,) and axes will do the job much faster production-wise and still be fairly effective.
Post by: Gamerlord on November 20, 2014, 08:01:07 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on November 21, 2014, 03:59:38 pm
On a related note, are handcrafted weapons worth it? The Elves left a bunch of Mithril in my trap corridor. Should I take the extra effort and resources to grind the bars into dust and make Katanas, or am I better off just cranking out Axes and Scimitars at the regular forge?
Yeah, elven mithril (elfite?) is a pretty great resource. Like the others said the handcrafted Damasc weapons are pretty good and you need to eventually mix in some armor piercing one way or another. Mithril makeshift mail or makeshift blades at the Molten Pit, use a lot less resources and are pretty serviceable. "Enchant mithril arrows", from mithril bars and wood at the fletcher is a good use of looted Outland toolkits if you use boworcs.
In my current fort I'm just being lazy and trading Elven gear to caravans though, since I have a hematite vein in a shallow marble layer, i don't really need the mithril too badly.
Post by: milo christiansen on November 21, 2014, 04:27:04 pm
Speaking of the Drydock, while I have your ear, it seems that the Longboat and Weaponskit store with the Finished Goods. This more or less means I cannot conduct raids while I am trying to trade my bins full of crafts. Would it be possible to make those things tools instead?
One thing I just learned: If you put [FURNITURE] in a tool definition it is stored in furniture stockpiles that have "other large tools" enabled. Much more realistic for large stuff like this.
Post by: smakemupagus on November 21, 2014, 04:32:42 pm
Speaking of the Drydock, while I have your ear, it seems that the Longboat and Weaponskit store with the Finished Goods. This more or less means I cannot conduct raids while I am trying to trade my bins full of crafts. Would it be possible to make those things tools instead?One thing I just learned: If you put [FURNITURE] in a tool definition it is stored in furniture stockpiles that have "other large tools" enabled. Much more realistic for large stuff like this.
Oh! Thanks. That and adjusting the value of longboats are good ideas.
Post by: milo christiansen on November 21, 2014, 04:36:48 pm
BTW: Stepladders in 40.x? They use just this trick (aka they have no special category, unlike minecarts or wheelbarrows).
Post by: Weirdsound on November 24, 2014, 10:10:25 pm
-At long last, a strange mood in need of silk pushed me into building the Blacksmoke Furnace. Now that I have it, I notice that I can make Cobalt Bars with it. My map has lots of Cobalt, and no silver for handcrafted weapons so far. How does Cobalt stack up with the other metals in terms of making regular arms/armor at the forge? I might just be able to take some of the burden off my (Blood)steel supply if its any good. Otherwise, I'll likely just make Lupine Masks/Daggers/Arrows out of the stuff to train my smiths as I have it in abundance.
-Decided I wanted some flachette guns. Out of curiosity, why does the goblin tinker need to work with Blowguns? It would be a bit less complicated/obtuse if he could just use a Brass Bar + Another Metal Bar + a Mechanism. While I am on that topic, which labor does the Tinker use, so that I can make sure I have the best orc for the job making the final weapons?
-I noticed that if you get masterwork stuff from the Freelancers or the Raiders, it credits the Orc who bought it or unloaded the ship as 'crafting' it. This is a pain in the ass if you intend to melt the damn thing for metal, as your guild/galley slave will get pissed off. No way you can stop those workshops from crediting a 'creator', is there?
Post by: Splint on November 24, 2014, 10:14:33 pm
Post by: Gamerlord on November 24, 2014, 10:50:02 pm
Post by: Splint on November 24, 2014, 10:52:15 pm
Actually I think cobalt is slightly better than iron.
Eh, either way it's a nice shade of blue and comparable.
Post by: smakemupagus on November 25, 2014, 12:11:36 am
-Decided I wanted some flachette guns. Out of curiosity, why does the goblin tinker need to work with Blowguns? It would be a bit less complicated/obtuse if he could just use a Brass Bar + Another Metal Bar + a Mechanism. While I am on that topic, which labor does the Tinker use, so that I can make sure I have the best orc for the job making the final weapons?
I dunno -- good question i guess. I never really thought of it as obtuse ^^ I think in this case I like it as is, but it's quite easy for you to change the reagents if you prefer something else.
Tinker uses FORGE_WEAPON for gunsmithing, SMELT for smelting, MECHANICS for traps
Quote
-I noticed that if you get masterwork stuff from the Freelancers or the Raiders, it credits the Orc who bought it or unloaded the ship as 'crafting' it. This is a pain in the ass if you intend to melt the damn thing for metal, as your guild/galley slave will get pissed off. No way you can stop those workshops from crediting a 'creator', is there?
Not that I know of. --- edit: You can use workshop profiles to choose an unskilled raider as the operator, to minimize the chance of getting good quality stuff, I suppose.
Post by: smakemupagus on November 25, 2014, 12:21:05 am
[INORGANIC:COBALT]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:METAL_TEMPLATE]
[SOLID_DENSITY:8890]
[IMPACT_YIELD:893000]
[IMPACT_FRACTURE:1932000]
[IMPACT_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:427]
[SHEAR_YIELD:255000]
[SHEAR_FRACTURE:552000]
[SHEAR_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:131]
[INORGANIC:IRON]
[USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:METAL_TEMPLATE]
[SOLID_DENSITY:7850]
[IMPACT_YIELD:542500]
[IMPACT_FRACTURE:1085000]
[IMPACT_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:319]
[SHEAR_YIELD:155000]
[SHEAR_FRACTURE:310000]
[SHEAR_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:189]
Post by: baldamundo on December 03, 2014, 11:24:18 am
First of all, just wanted to express my appreciation for this mod and the orc mode in particular - been having a lot of fun (made a forum account just to post here, lol).
The only real trouble I've been having as orcs though, is I can't seem to work out how to do tree-farming. Planting wood stalks or acorns or fungiwood in farm plots seems to net me loads of saplings, but no actual wood, and I can't figure out what I'm supposed to do with the saplings. The only option seems to be burning them at the factory to get charcoal, but I've got plenty of coal already - what I really need is wood for making ash and supplying the raider's drydocks. Am I missing something?
Post by: Boltgun on December 03, 2014, 11:41:38 am
Post by: Splint on December 03, 2014, 11:49:21 am
Is there a sawmill in your workshop menu? That's where you turn those into wood.
Goblin sawmill shanty is whgere orcs do it actually (it can also batch produce storage items so long as there's metal available for fasteners.)
Post by: baldamundo on December 03, 2014, 12:27:27 pm
Goblin sawmill shanty is whgere orcs do it actually (it can also batch produce storage items so long as there's metal available for fasteners.)
I tried that, but as far as I could tell it only had options for turning wood into wood planks, not for processing saplings into wood.
Post by: Splint on December 03, 2014, 12:45:12 pm
Goblin sawmill shanty is whgere orcs do it actually (it can also batch produce storage items so long as there's metal available for fasteners.)
I tried that, but as far as I could tell it only had options for turning wood into wood planks, not for processing saplings into wood.
Should have a workshop somewhere that can use the planks more efficiently than using single logs for stuff if that's what your getting at. I dont think they have one to just process them to raw wood otherwise.
Post by: Weirdsound on December 03, 2014, 01:23:10 pm
Hi :)
First of all, just wanted to express my appreciation for this mod and the orc mode in particular - been having a lot of fun (made a forum account just to post here, lol).
The only real trouble I've been having as orcs though, is I can't seem to work out how to do tree-farming. Planting wood stalks or acorns or fungiwood in farm plots seems to net me loads of saplings, but no actual wood, and I can't figure out what I'm supposed to do with the saplings. The only option seems to be burning them at the factory to get charcoal, but I've got plenty of coal already - what I really need is wood for making ash and supplying the raider's drydocks. Am I missing something?
You can take care of the ash issue by making a Crematorium and burning stuff there. If you can keep clear of seiges, your hunters should bring in enough to burn while still having leftover bone to use elsewhere.
As for the Drydocks, unless you are after something specific you can get elsewhere, focus most of your raids on the elves and drow. Those raids can yield wood. Not quite enough to break even on average I think, but it makes a huge difference.
Post by: smakemupagus on December 03, 2014, 03:39:21 pm
Crematorium is a good source of ash, even if you only burn vermin, but especially if you are wiping out enemies you'll soon have plenty of extra body parts.
Goblin saw shanty to stretch wood supplies.
Kobold textile shanty for wood stalks to plywood.
You can make pulleys and cloth to make xebecs (less wood than longboats).
Iirc you can buy logs at the farm or general bazaar.
There are some barbarian looted techs that can help
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: baldamundo on December 04, 2014, 04:02:12 pm
Yeah it's by design that orcs only burn farmed trees.Is that just for game balance? I think slightly unintuitive otherwise.
Quote
Crematorium is a good source of ash, even if you only burn vermin, but especially if you are wiping out enemies you'll soon have plenty of extra body parts.Ah, thanks. I'd forgotten about that. Makes a big difference actually.
Another thing I was wondering - what are the relative advantages/disadvantages of the atlatl, blowgun, and bola thrower? I'm presuming bows are the most powerful at range and tomahawks the best in melee (at unleast until you get the dual-wield kits) but I'm not sure when or why to use the other ranged options.
Post by: smakemupagus on December 04, 2014, 06:47:57 pm
Bows are generally all around best, most good ammo options, etc. easy to get good bows at fletcher.
Tomahawks are best melee/ranged until warrior societies replace them, remain fine for civ militia
Atlatls are big, good against unarmored targets, and can make some special (blunt, eg) ammo at Sun & Stars
Guns and cannons are among best armor piercing but use brass, lead and steel (or cash)
Flachettes train gun skill and are OK and economical. Basic blowguns are poor, upgrade to flachette gun at tinkerer asap
Bola are being phased out since they're a kobold signature weapon
Hope it helps!
Post by: Weirdsound on December 04, 2014, 07:08:17 pm
Yes, partly I think ironbone and steeloak are a bit imba when combined with orcs good ironbone and lamellar industry, and partly, that not everything has to be quite the same I think. When I think of orcish arborists I picture the trees being felled into the factory pits of isengard ^^
Is their some trick to getting easy shell or horn I am missing? With the lack of a sawmill for wood production, I feel that it is far easier to obtain a sustainable supply of Bonemetal than it is to start cranking out lamellar.
Post by: baldamundo on December 04, 2014, 07:47:33 pm
Yes, partly I think ironwood and steeloak are a bit imba when combined with orcs good ironbone and lamellar industry, and partly, that not everything has to be quite the same I think. When I think of orcish arborists I picture the trees being felled into the factory pits of isengard ^^
Bows are generally all around best, most good ammo options, etc. easy to get good bows at fletcher.
Tomahawks are best melee/ranged until warrior societies replace them, remain fine for civ militia
Atlatls are big, good against unarmored targets, and can make some special (blunt, eg) ammo at Sun & Stars
Guns and cannons are among best armor piercing but use brass, lead and steel (or cash)
Flachettes train gun skill and are OK and economical. Basic blowguns are poor, upgrade to flachette gun at tinkerer asap
Bola are being phased out since they're a kobold signature weapon
Hope it helps!
Yeah, that's very helpful thanks! :)
Still a little unclear on the role of atlatls though - are they better than bows against unarmoured? Maybe a good weapon for hunters or arming militia against cavern critters?
Also, some mad genius in my fort just made an artefact 'blaster musket' - is that different from a normal musket?
And one last ranged weapon question - I'm guessing the 'magestaffs' are the ranged Dreamwalker option and the 'sigilblade' for melee?
Post by: smakemupagus on December 05, 2014, 12:37:29 pm
Is their some trick to getting easy shell or horn I am missing? With the lack of a sawmill for wood production, I feel that it is far easier to obtain a sustainable supply of Bonemetal than it is to start cranking out lamellar.
Well, nothing at all against ironbone, but just to play advocate -- If you're near a pond there's turtles for shell, and my forts tend to be stocked pretty well with both Aurochs and invaders' dead hoof-animals like unicorns, horses, and deer. A full lamellar suit should take quite a few less pieces of material to craft than full ironbone too, and ironbone requires fuel.
edit: Also, just to mention again, our version of wood farming is Kobold Textile Hut -> Strip Wood Stalks. It's just one of those things that developed separately in orc mode vs. dwarf mode. Better than trees in many ways, the yield is not 100% and a lot of the wood is scrap quality, but they grow fast year round, use as much as you need and distill the rest into stalk whiskey. To me it's a little non-intuitive when I play dwarf mode and it's not there ;)
Still a little unclear on the role of atlatls though - are they better than bows against unarmoured? Maybe a good weapon for hunters or arming militia against cavern critters?
The javelins are bigger and heavier than arrows so, they deal more grevious wounds when they do penetrate armor. This balance works out best when you're facing large, squishy creatures. For example there was a version when Dwarves and drow used to invade with VCCs pretty regularly and javelins were great then. In an evil biome I'll generally have a Sun & Stars temple since I'll want morningstars anyway, so i'll have a squad of hammerhead javelin armed atlists if i can spare the electrum, the intended purpose there is crushing rather than chopping up undead.
For cavern patrols i don't really like the base atlatl or bow, because they're helpless at melee, but Falcon warriors (spear and atlatl) seem to be quite good for it. Dragon warriors (composite bow and katana) is too, but the dragon kit is quite a bit harder to craft a full squad worth of gear.
Quote
Also, some mad genius in my fort just made an artefact 'blaster musket' - is that different from a normal musket?
An artifact blaster should be a pretty good weapon. That's a new weapon that orcs can normally make only from a complex industry depending on gnomish high tech, metallurgy,and other foreign crafts; it uses gunner skill but fires magic missiles. It's not actually better than a Destroyer's or Gnarled Magestaff at firing missiles, the advantage is just that Corsairs and other gunners can use it, who I figure are more likely to be highly skilled. If you don't have a Heavy Weapons Armory and a gnomish labor cell cranking out diodes, your Arcane Forge can make ammo for him. Since it's quite hard to craft i haven't had a chance to test yet -- i'm interested how it goes.
Quote
And one last ranged weapon question - I'm guessing the 'magestaffs' are the ranged Dreamwalker option and the 'sigilblade' for melee?
The main difference is the spell they teach the wielder. The Sundering sigilblade is the most melee oriented, a dreamwalker or mage wielding it can cast Weakness to orichalcum & bloodsteel on enemies. The Destroyer's magestaff gives a ranged, sometimes-paralyzing attack. Bloodcurse causes heavy bleeding, acts as combo damage & debuff. Grappling Ivy is a disabling spell.
They also give access to the two different classes of enchanted ammo that have the chance to impart magical effects. Start with agony for bladeshards and poisonivy for staves, both are safe to friendly fire even at melee range. Some of the spell ammo can be dangerous (corpse explosion, arctic gale).
Post by: Weirdsound on December 05, 2014, 02:33:32 pm
Is their some trick to getting easy shell or horn I am missing? With the lack of a sawmill for wood production, I feel that it is far easier to obtain a sustainable supply of Bonemetal than it is to start cranking out lamellar.
Well, nothing at all against ironbone, but just to play advocate -- If you're near a pond there's turtles for shell, and my forts tend to be stocked pretty well with both Aurochs and invaders' dead hoof-animals like unicorns, horses, and deer. A full lamellar suit should take quite a few less pieces of material to craft than full ironbone too, and ironbone requires fuel.
Oh. My Kobolds sometimes do the woodstalk, but I usually only grow that in the winter. If it is a time of year where I can be growing Blade Weeds, I'd rather just be using Wicker to make bins and beds to indirectly help my wood stores indirectly by taking the pressure off of my wood supply.
Perhaps I'll just get another Kobold for full time woodstalk duty.
Oh, and the fuel thing would explain the Lamellar/Ironbone thing. I almost always build on volcanos... So yeah, Ironbone duh, of course metal would be easier to make than other options.
Post by: smakemupagus on December 06, 2014, 03:40:48 pm
If it is a time of year where I can be growing Blade Weeds, I'd rather just be using Wicker to make bins and beds to indirectly help my wood stores indirectly by taking the pressure off of my wood supply.
Yeah, seems like there's always plenty for the textile shanty to do, i actually had an extra one dedicated to clothing sets too in my last fort, which had lots of cavern spiders for silk & I had a wooly squig ranch.
Confirmed by the way, that the Treesinger's Pagoda is where to find the specific reaction you guys were looking for (farmed saplings to wood). Yes, the pagoda blueprint is a rare drop, so you can't necessarily count on getting it in the first couple years and an opportunity cost from not raiding other places, but you'll get plenty of looted wood and elven captives along the way. Of course there's still the farmers' bazaar, elf labor cells, nethermill, woodstalks, etc.
Post by: smakemupagus on December 14, 2014, 05:59:26 pm
\\find
[PERMITTED_REACTION:LABOR_GNOME_ORC]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:LABOR_GNOME2_ORC]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:LABOR_GNOME3_ORC]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:LABOR_GNOME4_ORC]
\\replace
[PERMITTED_REACTION:LABOR_GNOME_ORC]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:LABOR_GNOME_ORC2]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:LABOR_GNOME_ORC3]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:LABOR_GNOME_ORC4]
Post by: smakemupagus on December 15, 2014, 03:33:50 pm
"Battle of 8 Armies" - Orcs needed!
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=146594.0
Post by: smakemupagus on December 16, 2014, 03:18:13 pm
Be a pity if all the labor cells weren't working at max efficiency for Meph's story fort. ;)
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=6732
V6.0 OF4a
* Enable basic magic missle craft at Tribal as well as Arcane Forge (matching bladeshard)
* Tinkered castename standard settings to compromise embark screen info vs. strange redundant names in adventure time (e.g. "orc peon" vs. "orc orc")
* Bugfix gnome labor cell, some reax were typo in entity
Post by: Meph on December 16, 2014, 03:27:18 pm
Edit: Why are KEEN's elves in the update? There are some additional graphics...
Post by: smakemupagus on December 18, 2014, 11:54:56 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Meph on December 18, 2014, 01:50:36 pm
Post by: vishdafish on January 03, 2015, 07:43:25 am
Post by: Gamerlord on January 03, 2015, 08:36:17 am
Post by: vishdafish on January 03, 2015, 08:39:25 am
Post by: vishdafish on January 05, 2015, 11:59:05 am
Post by: smakemupagus on January 05, 2015, 12:36:52 pm
The necromancy and stormcrystal spells are both double-edged swords -- that's why they're equipable instead of permanently learned.
Post by: vonsch on January 13, 2015, 06:02:43 pm
1) From what I can tell the magic codexes are needed to go from dreamwalker to a named magicuser caste (druid, etc.) Various places also say that a codex teaches some spells but not sure whether that remains the case. Is it? Or are mojos required for all spell learning now? I don't see an option to learn spells without mojos, so it would have to be part of the actual promotion process, but no idea how to tell in game.
2) Can plain dreamwalkers learn spells from mojos and use magic staves? If so, what's the benefit to going to the advanced caste? (If the answer to 1 is the process of promoting to advanced caste teaches a subset of the spells... needs to be made more clear in the manual or somewhere.)
3) I think I get that any caste of magic user can use any staff or dreamcaster now. Is this correct? And ammo is simply a choice of two type that are matched to two of the staves each. Then that ammo can be further enchanted according to the limits for that type of ammo.
I think the confusion comes from all the recent changes and no concise restatement of how it all works. Too much conflicting information in change logs and manual to keep it straight in my aching head. :p
Maybe I'll just give them all hand cannons and let them make their own steel or brass magic.
Post by: smakemupagus on January 13, 2015, 07:11:00 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on January 14, 2015, 03:18:26 am
1) From what I can tell the magic codexes are needed to go from dreamwalker to a named magicuser caste (druid, etc.) Various places also say that a codex teaches some spells but not sure whether that remains the case. Is it? Or are mojos required for all spell learning now? I don't see an option to learn spells without mojos, so it would have to be part of the actual promotion process, but no idea how to tell in game.
Quote from: manual
Dreamwalkers automatically learn a unique, powerful set of spells when they undertake a spirit journey and enter an advanced spellcasting society, or caste. This process requires a caste CODEX which can be crafted at great expense, or occasionally looted by raiders. The CODEX is preserved on use.(edit) Aside: the "Learn from Codex" column of the Appendix is still 100% accurate if I'm not mistaken. There you can see the spells unique to each caste.
2) Can plain dreamwalkers learn spells from mojos ...
Quote from: manual
Any Dreamwalker including those who have joined an advanced caste can learn single spells by using a MOJO at the right Place of power. The spell is learned permanently, but the MOJO is used up.
...and use magic staves? 3) I think I get that any caste of magic user can use any staff or dreamcaster now. Is this correct?
Yes, any caste of magic user can use any staff, sigilblade or dreamcaster, both now and before.
Quote from: manual
Any Dreamwalker including those who have joined an advanced caste can temporarily learn additional spells by wielding ENCHANTED WEAPONS, and by carrying DREAMCATCHERS in their off hand. Enchanted gear is crafted at the Arcane Forge.
And ammo is simply a choice of two type that are matched to two of the staves each. Then that ammo can be further enchanted according to the limits for that type of ammo.
The difference is that now all SHARDS are called "bladeshards," whereas previously there was a superficial distinction between bladeshards and doomshards. And all Bladed Magic Weapons are now "sigilblades," whereas previously there was a superficial distinction between wraithblades and sacred kris. Staves and missiles likewise have had their in-game (superficial) names simplified. But the following statement from the manual was correct before, and still is now.
Quote from: manual
ENCHANTED WEAPONS can also fire spells at range using special ammo. Bladed magic weapons can interchangeable share any SHARD type ammo, while druidic and mage type magic weapons can interchangeably share MAGICMISSLE type ammo.First "blank" spell ammo is crafted at the arcane forge, or through rituals at the place of power. These blanks can be fired at enemies to do mundane damage. Or, they can instead be enchanted at the Places of Power with additional magical effects. Note, rune-ammo magic is notoriously volatile even by Orcish standards -- spells including Chainlightning, Nova, or Wraithbinding may not be particularly safe to fire into a melee with friendly forces.
Post by: vonsch on January 14, 2015, 08:31:38 am
I think the wording on "Any Dreamwalker including those who have joined an advanced caste can learn single spells by using a MOJO at the right Place of power. The spell is learned permanently, but the MOJO is used up" was part of my problem. If the advanced castes get spells when they move to advanced caste why would they need to learn from mojos? Unless the mojos are from the other advanced castes... but that isn't explicit. It's suggested logically, but logic rarely plays into DF ???
Fighting off invasion after invasion and clearcutting between. Raiding sure does eat trees.
Post by: smakemupagus on January 14, 2015, 11:44:19 am
Post by: vishdafish on January 17, 2015, 12:20:17 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on January 17, 2015, 03:31:00 pm
Post by: Weirdsound on January 17, 2015, 09:10:05 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on January 17, 2015, 10:56:47 pm
Post by: Rutee on February 02, 2015, 03:43:15 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on February 02, 2015, 04:21:46 pm
I find maintaining the manual to be pretty tedious and thankless task; no matter how hard one works on it, there's always the next thing "missing," and then once it's too big people no longer see the things that are already in it. Considering i have limited time for DF any more it's not too high up on the priorities to rewrite it, except for the Getting Started info. I would prefer that folks wiki if they really need info, because then (a) other people could help and (b) it would be easier for me to know what info people really want, like if they make a table i can fill it in etc.
Post by: Rutee on February 02, 2015, 09:51:49 pm
As far as ammo, I keep having hunters pick up a random weapon, then pick up mismatching ammunition even and especially when matching ammunition is available., even when assigned to a squad. That and the fact that I keep flechette guns around for actual cause (Plus the shit I don't actually use like atlatls that hte civ wants) means I'm doing that with the military, which tends to mangle the corpse/I hate doing it even though it's risk free and doesn't cock up.
Post by: smakemupagus on February 02, 2015, 10:21:07 pm
Does it have its own wiki? The part it has on the DF Wiki is really super sparse, and for 5.0. I actually used the manual religiously, and figured keeping it totally up to date was too much trouble, but it was legit super-helpful. Especially the part on warrior societies and greater souls.
No, you're exactly right, I was referring to the DFWIKI and it is pretty sparse. When we made a push to work on it in the past there have been some good pages created like
http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Masterwork:Metal, but at the end of the day I guess MW and especially the individual races just don't have enough playerbase to really get the wiki going.
True, the stuff on wiki is from version 5, but most of the work on the manual was from version 2 :) Glad to hear you get some good use out of it though!
Quote
As far as ammo, I keep having hunters pick up a random weapon, then pick up mismatching ammunition even and especially when matching ammunition is available., even when assigned to a squad.
Interesting. I wonder if these kind of screwups happen in my forts too, more often than I've noticed. I definitely do use hunters quite a bit in the first couple years, but I sort of stop paying too much attention to them after the fort gets bigger.
Post by: Weirdsound on February 03, 2015, 12:50:03 am
Does it have its own wiki? The part it has on the DF Wiki is really super sparse, and for 5.0. I actually used the manual religiously, and figured keeping it totally up to date was too much trouble, but it was legit super-helpful. Especially the part on warrior societies and greater souls.
As far as ammo, I keep having hunters pick up a random weapon, then pick up mismatching ammunition even and especially when matching ammunition is available., even when assigned to a squad. That and the fact that I keep flechette guns around for actual cause (Plus the shit I don't actually use like atlatls that hte civ wants) means I'm doing that with the military, which tends to mangle the corpse/I hate doing it even though it's risk free and doesn't cock up.
This might be more of a MDF issue in general than it is an Orc issue.
I have to deal it in Kobold Mode, where multiple sorts of launchers/ammo were avaible right from the getgo. I just forbid all the ranged weapons/ammo save for the sort I want my hunters using, and that works nine times out of 10... of course, that fix could be a pain in the arse if one intends to use ranged units in their military.
Post by: Insanegame27 on February 03, 2015, 02:07:25 am
Does it have its own wiki? The part it has on the DF Wiki is really super sparse, and for 5.0. I actually used the manual religiously, and figured keeping it totally up to date was too much trouble, but it was legit super-helpful. Especially the part on warrior societies and greater souls.
As far as ammo, I keep having hunters pick up a random weapon, then pick up mismatching ammunition even and especially when matching ammunition is available., even when assigned to a squad. That and the fact that I keep flechette guns around for actual cause (Plus the shit I don't actually use like atlatls that hte civ wants) means I'm doing that with the military, which tends to mangle the corpse/I hate doing it even though it's risk free and doesn't cock up.
go military, equipment, ammunition, hunters and delete everything except the ammo u want them to use. just forbid/melt/sell/desstroy the weapons you dont want them to have.
also military uniform and hunting uniform clash. alternatively, try having no hunters, and hunt with military squads. you need to standing order them to gather refuse from outside though. unless you're hunting cavern creatures
Post by: Zuzu Reish on February 04, 2015, 10:35:04 am
What I actually meant to ask, and this I suppose to Smakemupagus directly: I'm making my way through the embark scenarios right now, and am on the 'Steppe Clan/Old Ways.' When you wrote that a bonus would be embarking on an aquifer, did you intend for the player to confine themselves to an above-ground fort along the lines of the Forest Clan scenario?
Post by: smakemupagus on February 04, 2015, 10:59:00 am
What I actually meant to ask, and this I suppose to Smakemupagus directly: I'm making my way through the embark scenarios right now, and am on the 'Steppe Clan/Old Ways.' When you wrote that a bonus would be embarking on an aquifer, did you intend for the player to confine themselves to an above-ground fort along the lines of the Forest Clan scenario?
It's meant to get you started with a surface fort, but I purposely left it up to the player to choose whether to breach the aquifer eventually.
Also even in Forest Clan/Vale of Tears it's on purpose open to interpretation whether the Druidic Temple is your entire base, or just one structure within a larger town that might also include stone or underground buildings.
Maybe writing a couple new scenarios would get me in the spirit of updating the manual. That is one of the actually fun parts of doing it :)
Post by: Rutee on February 04, 2015, 08:15:14 pm
This might be more of a MDF issue in general than it is an Orc issue.I think it's a DF issue, given that I saw a bug with that report on it somewhere in the military screens about mismatching ammunition if left to 'individual choice, ranged'. And yeahk,t hat's the thing. I have flechette guns to train gunners cheaply, actual guns for use against live targets, and bows because they're easier to field in numbers. I nominally CAN mass forbid, but it's a huge pain, so I've just had to hunt manually for my bones.
I have to deal it in Kobold Mode, where multiple sorts of launchers/ammo were avaible right from the getgo. I just forbid all the ranged weapons/ammo save for the sort I want my hunters using, and that works nine times out of 10... of course, that fix could be a pain in the arse if one intends to use ranged units in their military.
Post by: Weirdsound on February 05, 2015, 09:11:33 pm
Post by: Gamerlord on February 07, 2015, 12:50:57 am
Post by: smakemupagus on February 07, 2015, 02:04:08 am
You sure about the lignite? They have
entity_slaver_orc.txt(1747): [PERMITTED_REACTION:LIGNITE_TO_COKE]
which should correspond to
[NAME:Make coke(5) from lignite] at the SMELTER.
(ninja edit...)
AFAIK you're probably right about the gauntlets, our plate stuff reactions are from the time before the DFHack glove-handedness fix, I wouldn't be surprised if i keep forgetting to add 'em since
Post by: Gamerlord on February 07, 2015, 02:14:25 am
Post by: Gamerlord on February 07, 2015, 02:24:42 am
Post by: smakemupagus on February 07, 2015, 03:43:44 pm
Post by: Gamerlord on February 09, 2015, 04:09:33 am
Spoiler: Metals (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Goblins & Kobolds (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Orcish Animals (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Magic Masks (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Orcish Armour (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Orcish Weapons (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Guns (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: More Gnome/Elf/Drow/Warlock/Succubi Style Workshops (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Misc (click to show/hide)
Post by: Meph on February 09, 2015, 08:31:10 am
If orcs could make more use of artisan and animal materials (leathers, chitin, scale, shell, glasses, powdered minerals/ores mixed with other things, like the ironbone/bloodsteel) to make their single hand-crafted weapons, I'd fully support that. The best metals should be dwarf-exclusive, I'm not even sure if my humans will get steel this time. Elves would get woods, not mithril.
I think the metals in MDF were overpowered, with everyone running around in mithril or better, which makes iron and to some degree even steel-clad sieges very easy. This time I'd rather have more cheap, easier low-tech materials and alternatives for iron/steel, but not so much that's better. Dwarves get mithril (lighter, steelgrade) and volcanic (heavier, 50% better than steel), and that is pretty much it. Only exception is the orichalcum, each race has the chance for it, 1 bar per 100 bars of other metals smelted.
Drow will be removed. Warlocks will be renamed to Necromancers. New races will be Titans, Werebeasts, Nightcreatures and Vampires. The other new MDF races I'll replace with those. So Frost Giants, Automatons, Werewolves, Banshees, Centauren... they will go. I should really finish those, so that the other modders can see their files and use whatever they like.
Magic masks already exist. ;)
Post by: Gamerlord on February 09, 2015, 08:43:49 am
Just a few notes on that: The murmak does indeed give a ton of meat, but I dont understand why there shouldnt be egg-layers. A few more war-like beasts would be interesting from my point of view.Shit I meant to specify squigs.
Post by: Meph on February 09, 2015, 08:59:54 am
Post by: Gamerlord on February 09, 2015, 09:36:06 am
Post by: Meph on February 09, 2015, 09:44:13 am
Mostly the micro, but I also don't like having to build nest boxes - I like my non-grazing animals in the orc and kobold forts roaming around with everyone.That's your personal opinion/playstyle and not a good recommendation for a balance change in a mod with several thousand players.
Post by: Gamerlord on February 09, 2015, 09:46:01 am
Yeah, it's also that I just can't see squigs as egg-layers. I picture them - for some reason as horrifying mixes between pugs, pigs and wolverines. I don't see that laying an egg.Mostly the micro, but I also don't like having to build nest boxes - I like my non-grazing animals in the orc and kobold forts roaming around with everyone.That's your personal opinion/playstyle and not a good recommendation for a balance change in a mod with several thousand players.
Post by: smakemupagus on February 09, 2015, 11:03:38 am
I'll answer some points that were questions when I'm at a real computer later.
Post by: Splint on February 09, 2015, 02:02:48 pm
I think the metals in MDF were overpowered
Not really. It's just enemies typically lack A. The armor, and/or B. The skill, to match player controlled dwarves directly. Even if an orc is wearing steel armor, if he's an invader then his limbs are almost always wide open and can be taken off by even a silver sword or axe if used by a skilled and strong dwarf. It's just in 34.11 player controlled professional soldiers were often too damn good at thier job. In 40.xx I've lost a few legendary soldiers because they wore themselves out and got thier heads smashed with maces or hammers.
The good stuff tends to take a long time to mass up (mithril requires luck with embark, enemy gear, and imports, volcanic is expensive and requires mithril in its production, bifrost comes from killing frosties, and deep bronze may as well be nonexistent it's so rare.) Often times, depending on the area, a player of any race may find himself stuck with using copper and a trickle of other things until they get an alchemy lab set up, or not even look at most metals because they got lucky and can burp up steel by the cartload.
As to the orcs themselves, I've personally not seen much wrong with them. Personally I could do without the squigs though.
Post by: Meph on February 09, 2015, 02:03:46 pm
Post by: Boltgun on February 10, 2015, 03:47:41 am
Originally we judged a metal usefulness as low (copper), medium (iron, bronze), high (steel) and extraordinary (adamantine).
It seems that we somehow ended with 'why bother' (copper), bad (iron, bronze), average (steel), good (volcanic and orichalcum) and 'why risk my fort for that' (adamantine).
Cutting every intruder with special metals is good enough to not risk going for adamantine. Orichalcum is okay in the sense that it is a 'critical hit' but perhaps we're better off by not making metals that are better all around and instead making more specialized ones. A denser steel is already a powerful blunt metal and a lighter one makes great armor that does not slow down its wearer.
Plus we could limit ourselves to natural metals, plus a high tech one for each, plus an esoteric one for each power level. ie, steel, damascus steel (higher shear), weird magic steel (very light). That way, players can simply look at a 4*3 table to see all of them.
In addition, it's okay to have signature weapons for a race but we had so many variants of flails, bows, spring loaded stuff and upgrades it was hard to wrap your head around. After all, why bother with thrown axes when crossbows do the job? It also made strange moods very frustrating.
(and lets not make gold weapons again, invaders with gold armor are a waste)
Post by: smakemupagus on February 10, 2015, 08:00:49 am
The orcish special metals actually really are fairly specialized already (weight, brittleness, orichalcum is great against impact). I would go further and make the biological metals distinct (lower strength, less brittle) from iron and steel if it was up to me ... I like emergent complexity more than things falling neatly into tiers. Essentially I made my own warglass and high end metals that had diversity in features and complex to craft but use unique resources, in a way that I found more satisfying or interesting than the pure "uber" metals or the strict iron- or steel-tiered warglass. So, yeah, guess it's redundant. I appreciate that now that there are so many different modes, redundancy is more of a problem. (Note they were originally balanced against welded mithril, which was removed, so rebalancing now against steel is totally reasonable, except perhaps that steel and especially bloodsteel are so easy by comparison)
Sometimes i think we have some fairly divergent design principles actually. Orc mode is all about sword/pistol kit being fun, and tomahawks having different effects than bows, macuahuitls different effects than katana. Yes, in some sense they're redundant, but so is basically everything that's not a pick or a plump helmet :). I'm not sure what the best way to progress is honestly. As discussed I don't have time any more to redesign the whole thing from scratch, at least, not to keep on any particular schedule. Raiding and techtree are intertwined with weapon and materials progression pretty comprehensively. My plan at this point is to work with Meph to get something bare bones in place and then re-implement the rest at my own pace, and possibly in a way such that there is a core that fits streamlined MDF design and extension module(s) for folks that want the original orc fortress. I dunno.
Post by: Boltgun on February 10, 2015, 09:02:16 am
I'm a fan of keeping it simple. But still there's a lot of dilemmas, clean vs flavor, fps vs complete, choices vs straightforward... I don't really know the best course either. I'd vote for fps and less bugs, otherwise I guess it is for the best if we take different approaches to contents.
Anyway working from a clean base, at your own pace, and releasing regularly is quite motivating.
Edit: And the most important is that you make what you want to make, there is no point otherwise. :P
Post by: Meph on February 10, 2015, 09:50:52 am
Post by: smakemupagus on February 10, 2015, 11:03:51 am
Anyway working from a clean base, at your own pace, and releasing regularly is quite motivating.
Edit: And the most important is that you make what you want to make, there is no point otherwise. :P
Yeah I'm looking forward to it, for the most part. Once i get over the hump and there's a playable base to work from, it will be fun :)
As for keeping some of the comp!icated bits modular, I think its not a bad idea. Will see how easy that turns out to be.
Post by: Zuzu Reish on February 10, 2015, 05:16:55 pm
What I actually meant to ask, and this I suppose to Smakemupagus directly: I'm making my way through the embark scenarios right now, and am on the 'Steppe Clan/Old Ways.' When you wrote that a bonus would be embarking on an aquifer, did you intend for the player to confine themselves to an above-ground fort along the lines of the Forest Clan scenario?
It's meant to get you started with a surface fort, but I purposely left it up to the player to choose whether to breach the aquifer eventually.
Also even in Forest Clan/Vale of Tears it's on purpose open to interpretation whether the Druidic Temple is your entire base, or just one structure within a larger town that might also include stone or underground buildings.
Maybe writing a couple new scenarios would get me in the spirit of updating the manual. That is one of the actually fun parts of doing it :)
Hey, sorry for the delayed response to this (travel and such).
I really like philosophy behind Orc Fortress' embark scenarios, of ratcheting up difficulty on the player; I was in particular drawn to the Steppe clan because of the 80 pop cap... I hate migrants :P. Recently I've tried doing the embark on a tundra biome, modifying the loadout to take more barrels and prepared drinks over non-boreal plants and their respective seeds. After about one year things are working pretty well, though I've had the worst luck getting an elf captive; as you can imagine, an above-ground tundra fort has a shortage of wood, fuel, and even lamellar armor. Thematically-wise, in this case I've imagined the corsairs/raiders as being vikings rather than swashbuckling pirates... that wield Macuahuitls and Katanas.
I mention all of this, because it occurred to me that the embarks currently in place all deal with a specific 'aspect' of the orcs, of which they have many: the Steppe clan with tribal weapaonry; the Mountain clan with guns/explosives; the Crashed Longboat with raiding/pirates/mercantilism; and the Forest clan with magic, and general animosity toward elves. I'm not sure how to build on that at the moment, but it's food for thought, if writing embarks/scenarios still strikes a chord with you.
Post by: smakemupagus on February 12, 2015, 12:53:57 am
What do you like to embark with there? Do you bring boreal plant seeds or just gather them?
Post by: Zuzu Reish on February 12, 2015, 12:41:31 pm
Yeah, I agree, a tundra/tiaga scenario is a nice idea :D
What do you like to embark with there? Do you bring boreal plant seeds or just gather them?
With above-ground forts I typically prefer to gather biome-specific plants; this holds doubly true for an orc tundra embark, because not all civilizations originate with access to boreal plants, and strawberry/rope reeds/etc. are just wasted points since they can't grow. Subterranean crops work just fine, of course; I'm playing with the Steppe-clan embark, though, so I figure they wouldn't embark with them; so far I've only bought some plump helmet seeds from the caravanserai, since I haven't yet breached the aquifer/caverns to find anything else. That's all player preference, though.
Beyond that I bring wood (20-30), barrels (10-20), yarn (20), booze (30-50), and a pick. Keep in mind that this embarking on an aquifer; yeah they're a pain, but it's also an infinite, safe source of water near the surface. I won't be breaching the caverns yet until I feel good about my bloodberry-dyed castle on top, so I don't bring along any axes for chopping. Icicle mints aren't available on the tundra (though they can be farmed), but the other three are typically very plentiful and I've never had a shortage of booze or food. I typically don't bring along any animals, but if I were I would bring along a cat or other vermin-catching creature, to serve as an alternative way to make lamellar leather. I generally don't invest in skill points with my starting seven, I like to see them level up. Yes, that leaves many points available, but to quote Meph: "Easy is for elves."
Bones and tough leather can get the player through quite a bit, and it can all be made substantially easier if the player chooses to equip a squad with scimitar from the Freelancers guild. If you're lucky you'll catch an elf right away; if you lose your ship and don't have enough wood to build another one, then you'll have to deal with caravans. Once you get an elf you'll have all the lamellar to get everything you want from the tribal wargear shop for everyone who needs it, and plenty of fuel.
... and that's where I'm at so far, I'm working on traps and making a vast amount of rusty iron arrows for my archers, waiting for those damn drow again.
***EDIT***: Icicle Mints can be farmed in tundra, but can't be gathered wildly. I know they have the [wet] tag, which just means that they need to be by water, correct? Does ice count?
Post by: smakemupagus on February 13, 2015, 03:19:52 pm
Post by: Zuzu Reish on February 13, 2015, 09:33:27 pm
What would you think of a warrior society codex that used wrestling as a primary skill?
Post by: Gamerlord on February 13, 2015, 09:37:03 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on February 14, 2015, 03:06:52 pm
Post by: Zuzu Reish on February 15, 2015, 03:11:03 pm
I know that the grappling aspect of wrestling in general doesn't quite work as well in fortress mode compared to its counterpart; however, what if the gear were to somehow train make use of, or train directly, the biting skill? Of the wrestling-related skills (by which I mean wrestling, striking, kicking, biting, and I suppose misc object) it seems to be the most reliable/deadly in fortress mode, and I'm wondering what kind of damage a creature the size of an orc could do.
Additionally - and not to conflate the two races - but perhaps the society gear could give the wearer a syndrome attack like the Kobold Vipers? Even a mild stun debuff can be deadly in melee. Flavor-wise, the weapon could represent a kind of mask; implementation-wise, maybe there would be a reaction transforming the orc into a caste that used biting as its preferred melee attack?
Post by: smakemupagus on February 15, 2015, 06:58:40 pm
War claws by the way, apply a pretty good stun debuff the old fashioned way (pain from pierces through the armor / twisting around in the wound). With the exception of being strike rather than bite, I think they might be similar to the effect you're looking for.
Post by: Zuzu Reish on February 23, 2015, 12:24:38 pm
Redundant, absolutely! But I recall your pick and plump helmet from earlier 8)
Post by: RodriguesSting on February 24, 2015, 06:30:48 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on February 24, 2015, 08:44:37 pm
Post by: RodriguesSting on February 24, 2015, 09:07:36 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on February 25, 2015, 01:29:54 am
... edit ... FWIW, as far as I can see everything under the Tribal Wargear entry under buildings is still accurate
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: smakemupagus on February 25, 2015, 02:26:15 am
Post by: RodriguesSting on February 25, 2015, 06:47:14 am
Post by: Meph on February 25, 2015, 06:58:04 am
Post by: smakemupagus on February 27, 2015, 05:27:58 am
Post by: RodriguesSting on February 27, 2015, 11:22:05 pm
Are bone crafts, weapons and whatsoever more valuable than wood and stone crafts? And by how much decorating with bone increases the value?
Also, I should use bone for crafting at all, or should try to save as much as possible for iron-bone?
Edit: I also remember reading on the wiki that the weapon quality can affect its killing power. Does the same applies to ranged weapons, like bows or atlatls?
Post by: smakemupagus on February 27, 2015, 11:41:37 pm
The value of a decorated object is complicated because the trade price supposedly depends on whether the buyers' civilization like the topic of the artwork.
Don't sell totems, they're more valuable to exchange for coin at the freelancer if you're planning on raiding at all.
Post by: smakemupagus on February 27, 2015, 11:48:47 pm
Edit: I also remember reading on the wiki that the weapon quality can affect its killing power. Does the same applies to ranged weapons, like bows or atlatls?
Yeah, the quality of the ranged weapon affects accuracy, not damage. The quality and material of the arrows affect damage.
Post by: RodriguesSting on February 28, 2015, 12:08:19 am
Edit: I also remember reading on the wiki that the weapon quality can affect its killing power. Does the same applies to ranged weapons, like bows or atlatls?
Yeah, the quality of the ranged weapon affects accuracy, not damage. The quality and material of the arrows affect damage.
And the material, on the case, affects the weapon value and how well it fare on melee, I presume. Many thanks for the answers, and will have the totens in mind, I do plan to raid, that's how I want to get metal, after all. That and trading, of course...
Post by: smakemupagus on February 28, 2015, 01:11:53 am
Post by: RodriguesSting on February 28, 2015, 04:40:14 pm
1 - Do orcs also produce 4 stone blocks from each boulder? That's relevant because the manual states that the Goblin's Stonecuter Shanty can turn a stone block back into a boulder. If you send this boulder to be cut, you can end up with a system to infinitely multiply your rocks, maybe even mineral bearing ones. Of course, this is not possible if: 1 - the orcs don't produce more than one block by boulder, and 2 - the boulder the goblin makes is different and can't be cut into blocks. If it is not the case, that's a possible exploit.
And a less important (though possibly dumb) question:
2 - Can ironbone and bloodsteel be used as normal bars on every possible interaction? If so, that would pretty much eliminate the needs for mining, as it would allow me to make a la Mordor steel fortress, that would be quite heavy metal.
I already thank this thread's moderator in advance.
Edit: as I could not find updated information about this, I will take the chance and ask it here.
3 - Are crossbows still more powerful than (simple) bows? Or they are just different, each with its own strengths and weakness? Because looking at the wiki, the arrows and bolts, the actual vectors of damage, have apparently the same statistics, like contact area and piercing potential.
Post by: smakemupagus on February 28, 2015, 05:35:22 pm
Yes, or 40 per 5 if you use clay at the factory
>> the manual states that the Goblin's Stonecuter Shanty can turn a stone block back into a boulder.
That's not accurate. Not just outdated, I don't think that was ever true :P sorry about that
>> Can ironbone and bloodsteel be used as normal bars on every possible interaction?
Yep! Including anvils.
>> Are crossbows still more powerful than (simple) bows?
The vanilla DF crossbow and bow, and bolt and arrow are about the same. But:
* Orcish composite bow from Fletcher's specialty shop is quite good (probably getting nerfed a bit in Reborn)
* MDF has incredibly powerful crossbow variants including the mechanized crossbow; but Orcs can't obtain these very easily.
* MDF Dwarves can choose between piercing, blunt, and bodkin bolts; Orcish arrows are generally bodkins
* Elvish greatbows and singing arrows are incredibly powerful. Greatbow is 2Handed though.
Excluding looted gear and workshops, usually the orcs are choosing between bows and throwing weapons
Post by: RodriguesSting on March 01, 2015, 07:18:32 pm
Post by: BlackFlyme on March 01, 2015, 07:33:17 pm
More control over their equipment and weapons is nice. As is not having hunters chase down creatures that are too small to butcher or you otherwise do not want them to hunt.
Plus in case of a siege you won't end up with hunters trapped outside running around in circles the second they see an enemy.
Post by: RodriguesSting on March 01, 2015, 08:50:07 pm
Post by: BlackFlyme on March 01, 2015, 09:02:38 pm
You may need to check that outside refuse collecting is enabled, otherwise it may be ignored.
Post by: smakemupagus on March 01, 2015, 09:20:39 pm
Post by: RodriguesSting on March 01, 2015, 10:00:37 pm
Update: An armored, melee uruk military hunting is RIDICULOUSLY powerful compared to bow hunters. Bow hunters have to bleed out even the smallest prey (because you're probably not shitting out metal arrows for that), while my uruk spearman could take out normal game and even lionmen in seconds. Maybe are the uruks who are ridiculously powerful, maybe an well equiped soldier can indeed be an extremely powerful hunter, it was just an unexpected result. Bring yourself a melee weapon and a shield for your orc embark and you will not regret it.
Now, I am always out of tallow to make tough later. What's wrong? Only the big game drops fat? Does it rot even in barrows? Should I not process it? Though it is actually possible I am cooking it. I will check it out.
Post by: smakemupagus on March 03, 2015, 01:29:24 pm
I had a hunter in the tutorial fort (Ghoshash) who in the later part of the game got ahold of a looted mechanized crossbow and was sniping mastodons in the heart at 50+ tiles range :)
Dunno about your tallow, maybe you're cooking it, but it can be the limiting reagent for sure. I don't think it rots when stored properly. Do you have a terrier squig or condor keeping vermin out of your food piles?
Post by: RodriguesSting on March 03, 2015, 05:43:21 pm
Hunters need a few skill levels before they start being efficient, whereas a big oaf with a weapon will get the kill soon enough as long as he can catch and disable it. Also, yeah, uruks are powerful.
Eh, it depends. I have a talent to get utter failures, like a uruk with Melee Proficiency of 6. Not 60. 6. A run of the mill orc ended up carrying the torch (and by torch, I mean bronze toothed spear) and was the source of my fort's prosperity.
Also, this reminds me of the quite proficient axe wielding orc that got severely murdered while hunting. I think I pitted him against some snakes. I don't know, as much as cutting weapons at first sounded like the best route, I am really inclining more towards spears for my military hunters.
Dunno about your tallow, maybe you're cooking it, but it can be the limiting reagent for sure. I don't think it rots when stored properly. Do you have a terrier squig or condor keeping vermin out of your food piles?
Was just cooking it. Herpa derp. Now I have so much lamellar I will soon have to start burning it, as I can't cook it.
And while at cooking, man, this is by far the most profitable fort I have ever made. I was thinking about doing a metal working industry around ironbone at first, but the cook can make prepared food barrels worth up to 3000 urists. Not just valuable, it is useful, as it makes my fort happy. I will never make crafts again, stick to versatility kids.
Now, as I am advancing a lot, it is pretty much the first time I am facing some... problems. Like figuring out my military. I can make my three dudes train (but I can't configure it so one can have breaks, or else this one in particular will never show up at training. Weird), but I am having some problem with assigning them equipment. The equipment in question is a set made of Lamelar Wargear (armor, 2x gauntlets, greaves, 2x boots, helmet) and some extra stuff, namely a robe, a cloak, and a lupin mask, all made of the already mentioned material. The problem is that they are, according to Dwarf Therapist, wearing two boots on the same feet (and only one in the other one. That lead to some logistical problems), and are refusing to wear the cloaks.
So, to the minutia, how would you configure a optimized (including all the already mentioned accessories, or more if I am missing something) lamellar uniform? Listen how it would show on the screen, so I can copy paste it.
Post by: smakemupagus on March 03, 2015, 07:01:51 pm
I think (lamellar/robe/cloak) or (mail/breastplate/cloak) should both work, though, so i am surprised about the cloak not equipping.
>> Listen how it would show on the screen, so I can copy paste it.
Huh?
Post by: RodriguesSting on March 03, 2015, 07:13:01 pm
I meant to say to write it down how it would show in the uniform screen, as:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This is pretty much how I set the uniform up. Is there anything wrong with it? Maybe you can't wear a robe and a cloak at the same time? If yes and I have to chose, which one?
Post by: smakemupagus on March 03, 2015, 07:47:02 pm
You shouldn't be able to double regular boots in Masterwork, because they're size 25 permit 49 (instead of 25/50 as in vanilla iirc).
Same is true for gauntlets by the way, can't wear two on one hand in Masterwork.
Quote
Maybe you can't wear a robe and a cloak at the same time? If yes and I have to chose, which one?
Are you wearing as "replace clothing" or over clothing? All those three things should fit, but maybe not if there's civilian clothes underneath too.
Post by: Gamerlord on March 03, 2015, 07:53:18 pm
It auto corrected, plus I am not wearing glasses.If thats on the uniform screen, removing on gauntlet and one boot should fix it I think.
I meant to say to write it down how it would show in the uniform screen, as:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This is pretty much how I set the uniform up. Is there anything wrong with it? Maybe you can't wear a robe and a cloak at the same time? If yes and I have to chose, which one?
Post by: RodriguesSting on March 05, 2015, 02:51:16 pm
Edit: I am having serious trouble breeding squigs. I will forsake them to bring more wolves. I will also limit my food production to, hopefully, delay the sieges a bit longer to build up something resembling a military with trained wolves.
Post by: Splint on March 05, 2015, 04:53:37 pm
1. Lockdown. Cowardly and may cost some trade, but if managed is fool-proof more or less. The enemy won't approach with no path, which makes ranged troopers to man the walls sort of a discretionary thing since the enemy may not come close enough to attack with them.
2. Get your biggest orcs and set them up via the tribal warcrafter. Lamellar isn't perfect, but against blunt weapons it may make all the difference. Spears are your best friend, but the macuahuitl works too, though it can't be depended on to make quick kills like the spear can, since it's contact area results in deflections off most things sturdier than standard leather. Also outfit them with the biggest shields you can make from wood.
With a little luck, the enemy's numbers will be moot because they'll all try to go after the same few orcs and trip over eachother (as displayed in Blackhold.) With some wolves or sabre cats to act as distractions, you might even win a crushing victory against a small siege. If you really win the lottery and end up fighting gnomes, then it'll be a wholesale slaughter for the brave but hopelessly tiny fellows.
3. Mass-conscription. The obvious. Call up everyone for an all or nothing attack, arming them with whatever's at hand. Worse comes to worst, there's always stone clubs and mauls from the craftsman workshop for weaponry, which are better than nothing. I advise this the least since it may result in a swift destruction regardless of victory, and large losses will discourage migrants.
EDIT: As to the uniform, I'd say drop the robe and replace it with a shirt and pants, or use the replace clothing option to force them to ditch the civvies and put on thier full uniforms. I have to do that sometimes if they're wearing leather or cloth caps as part of thier civvie attire to force them wear their damned helmets.
Post by: RodriguesSting on March 05, 2015, 06:36:21 pm
1 - Locking down with merchants inside, unless you can break the siege, is pretty much assured to screw you up. They may tantrum, and are usually well equipped.
2 - If they have marksdwarves (or whatever competent ranged unit) shooting them from afar is unlike to do much, as you will probably lose in the trade. But I am planing to expand my stockade to add fortifications on top of the walls.
I will delay the food production (or even completely forsake it) in hopes to have time to start up the bloodsteel production and equip a good force. With bloodstell, I am confident enough to take on them at melee.
Post by: Splint on March 05, 2015, 07:01:35 pm
You'll need a totem pole and ironbone for bloodsteel if you didn't know. A healthy coal industry will provide more than enough ash for the task, but supplying bone depends on... well, killing shit. And meat needs to be sacrificed or blood imported in great quantities for mass bloodsteel production.
For food, just don't make meals. Cooking is all well and good for stretching supplies out but good herbalists/farmers can cover most needs in a crisis and the caverns have ample (if dangerous) game to offer for meat. Plus that tallow is better used for soap or lamellar.
As to engaging enemy archers, don't clear cut for the love of god. especially early on if building above ground mostly or exclusively, trees can and will make a huge difference for a melee force (which is likely to be the main body of a given horde initially for logistic reasons.) Your archers won't be nearly good enough anyway if starting with only novices or worse and the cover could be the difference between pincushioned uruks and uruks giggling as they take stock of the ocean of mutilated dorfs gently wafting against thier ankles. In the same vein, perimeter traps at corners can also make a huge difference, deterring ambushes and injuring some of the enemy.
Post by: RodriguesSting on March 05, 2015, 07:09:32 pm
I go heavy on the cooking industry because I hunt a lot to get leather and bones (a surprisingly efficient above ground material building material, as each stack provides for 4 blocks and unlike everything else, is renewable), so I gotta do something about the meat. It is very valuable and makes the orcs happy, after all. But after all this trouble... I might just trade away raw materials. I barely need to trade, after all.
Guess I will put more effort on staying down low. My orcs will be idle a lot, but I will take this as a opportunity to train them up, the ones with potential for melee, the rest for ranged combat. Seems like a solid enough plan.
Post by: Splint on March 05, 2015, 07:18:48 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on March 05, 2015, 11:10:59 pm
The only thing I'd add to what Splint said is, don't be afraid to use iron or ironbone (or whatever) for weapons if you find you don't have time for steel or bloodsteel. Shields are really important. Maybe consider having your two most promising guys start sparring around the time of first migrant wave. Some simple constructions like a small fortifications tower for your own archers, or some narrow corridors to restrict enemy vision and funnel them into a kill zone, can help a lot.
Post by: Zuzu Reish on March 05, 2015, 11:16:54 pm
If you have extra leather lying around, I would also recommend adding some layers of clothing to your uniform: trousers can fit under greaves, for example, and mittens under gauntlets. Every little bit helps, and at the very least it might make the difference between a treatable wound (e.g. torn muscle/tendon), and a permanent one (e.g. severed nerves).
Post by: RodriguesSting on March 05, 2015, 11:34:31 pm
On farming, what seeds to you recommend me to bring? And did you managed to use the squigs? I can't get the breeders to reproduce, at least not quicker than the wolves (aka before the dwarfs show up).
Edit: I have a defensive plan. I will make two of my bridges (the one over the river and one at the largest land side, as I am always embarking at warm rivers. Not worrying about drinks and permanent water moats), instead of the usual 3x3 bridges over the moat, three individual bridges (possibly longer) side by side operating separately. So, during the sieges that I can win, I will lower only one of those three one square thin bridges, so the enemies come at me in a line to face my soldiers. It is the closest of a kill corridor I can make above ground without interfering with the caravans. Gotta put some tactics there. But hopefully, by keeping the values down, I will not have to worry too much.
For illustration purpose:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: smakemupagus on March 05, 2015, 11:58:50 pm
Squig ranching is good for a lot of things if you don't mind a bit of micromanagement, but growlers are just disposable guard animals for alerting on ambushes, they're not really great fighters. They are egg layers by the way. TBH I'm not sure why in retrospect, I have no idea if that's appropriate in terms of WH40k canon squigs. Anyway, they're pretty good as a source of eggs for your fort.
Post by: RodriguesSting on March 06, 2015, 12:03:23 am
They are egg layers by the way.
(http://s36.podbean.com/pb/c45415f5a878ad655469f8ad7e95081c/54f934d6/data1/blogs30/251246/uploads/jesusfacepalm.jpg)
Well that explains my breeding problem.
Well, it would make more sense for them to just spontaneously grow out of the ground, as every ork and their ecosystems are fungal life forms. Squigs are rather small, so I doubt they will wield enough meat, bones or leather to make their farming specially desirable for orcs. Adding nestbox and egg forbiding to the equation just makes it harder to pick them.
Post by: Gamerlord on March 06, 2015, 12:08:55 am
Post by: smakemupagus on March 06, 2015, 12:23:54 am
Their uses are wool, vermin hunting, disposable guard critters for revealing ambushes, and (well) eggs. For meat bones & leather you would go for Aurochs or even wolves I think. We've already discussed some changes & additions to animals for Reborn.
>> Adding nestbox and egg forbiding to the equation just makes it harder to pick them.
Huh, that sounds complicated? I just lock the door when I want to let some critters breed.
Post by: RodriguesSting on March 06, 2015, 10:31:50 am
>> Adding nestbox and egg forbiding to the equation just makes it harder to pick them.
Huh, that sounds complicated? I just lock the door when I want to let some critters breed.
Eh, design, I forgot about that.
Still, food is not a problem (unless I use them for food sources during a siege), I would rather take the bulls to assure resources or the wolves to some day train them. Well, I am going with farming for the next fort. What seeds do you guys recommend? Something that grows fast and can be used in grog, if possible.
Post by: Zuzu Reish on March 06, 2015, 12:03:37 pm
On farming, what seeds to you recommend me to bring? And did you managed to use the squigs? I can't get the breeders to reproduce, at least not quicker than the wolves (aka before the dwarfs show up).
I never really bring seeds or plants, in general I like to build my farm system from the ground up by foraging and trading. A lot of 'wild' plants grow year-round, and can used for a variety of purposes.
In planning an embark, though, I'd opt for versatility: for example, both strawberries / prickle berries can be eaten and brewed; both pig tails / rope reeds can be brewed and processed into thread; plump helmets can be eaten, brewed, AND milled into dye for a textile industry.
Boreal plants are comparatively valuable as crops, but they can only be used for food/drink, and only have one planting season (autumn, if you plant them in winter they'll die when spring hits).
Farmable trees are always good, and can be especially useful in the more difficult biomes.
And don't forget hivekeeping! A hivekeeper can supplement your food, brewing, textile, crafting, and weapon (poison) industries.
Post by: RodriguesSting on March 06, 2015, 07:50:50 pm
To begin with, it is been like two entire years, and I been have never, ever besieged. Really, I am speechless, no dwarfs, no gnomes, no humans, no one. Not a single time, a siege banner. Truly, truly amazing. Though it made me lax out a bit and, in the end, caused quite a tragedy.
Second off, due to my single bone carver working non stop to produce blocks for my walls and furniture, he got legendary status quite quickly, and was pretty much farting out masterwork furniture. Even with lavish meals at minimum, my orcs were consistently happy. Simply great.
I was attacked by werebeasts twice. One came for but as soon as it was crossing the bridge I pulled the lever and it fell in the water, returning to the original form (a kobold). The second one attacked a shaggy mumak calf and returned back to the original form (the/a heremit) mid fight, getting gored in the process. So I would guess they are not as scary as I expected at first.
Just by the end I learned how many ways I can save up on wood. I can use the Crematorium to burn off vermin remains and body parts to produce my ash, and the boneyard to produce Large Pots to replace barrels. If I just learned this sooner. But still, I will use wood for my lamellar and for carchoal (in case I don't find any coal), so all that saving up will not be in vain, as my biggest wood drain were barrels.
And I really, really need to use sentries. Not even kidding, I could have avoided many werewolves sneaking on me and thieves, but most of all, an elven ambush of pickdancers invaded my fort, attacking a caravan. Only one from my two warriors (remember the whole laxing on defense thing) survived, and probably maimed, and I lost my bonecarver and some random orcs. But the bonecarver death is the one that stung the most.
Well, that being said, I am way more confident now on embarking a less forested embark next time. I can as well just skip lamellar completely and go for metalworking, just gotta remember to bring in an anvil. No need to rush walls if I keep down low, as a moat will probably do against early ambushes. Unless I churn out an artifact early. In any case, save up on wood, take a stream, make sure it is a hot biome, and I will be set for another trial. In the end, I learned a lot. It was totally worth it.
Post by: smakemupagus on March 06, 2015, 08:21:49 pm
Thanks for sharing the story, good luck with the next one..
Post by: RodriguesSting on March 06, 2015, 11:03:02 pm
Post by: Splint on March 06, 2015, 11:18:31 pm
Also metal tomahawks. They'll be quite handy. Lamellar armor I do still recommend for early on, especially with lower-end fort defense races since beak wolves and stranglers can't bite through it. Savage places too, as many giant animals have trouble biting through it too and it doesn't slow hunting soldiers down much.
Post by: RodriguesSting on March 06, 2015, 11:26:18 pm
But I think I will just skip the lamelar entirely if I get an artisan on my embark or on a early wave. I mean, I can pretty much produce/gather every single input necessary to make bloodsteel in less than two seasons. I can dress a dude in steel from from toe to head before hitting the 15 mark, and then getting another one (equally equipped) to spar together. Quite frankly, there is no excuse to not do this. I can then use the leather/lamelar for extra bits as cloaks and etc. At least that's the plan. And honestly, lamellar eats wood just twice as fast as bloodsteel, while not offering anywhere the same level of protection. I made my mind.
Post by: Insanegame27 on March 09, 2015, 02:15:31 am
Orcs are my second favorite MW race (After my wasps). I love the MORE DAKKA aspect of it and the fact that DFHack was used minimally with it, keeping mainly to the raws.
One suggestion: Make lamellar either easier to get or better, the cost really isnt balanced.
Post by: smakemupagus on March 09, 2015, 02:54:23 am
(thanks for the nice words about the mod otherwise ;) )
Post by: Gamerlord on March 09, 2015, 02:59:35 am
Post by: Insanegame27 on March 09, 2015, 03:08:05 am
a)Animals never enter the map. EVER. Except with dfhack forcing them, and they only appear underground.
b)Migrant waves will only ever spawn one migrant per wave, even with forcing
It's the game not the save file. I deleted it and havn't played orcs since, being too focused on Wasps. I fixed the issue with a clean install. Errorlog wasn't giving me anything either.
I managed to get a siege by using dfhack. it spawned a single elf archer that decimated my fort.
I am going to play orcs a little bit now. MORE DAKKA. Any suggestions on how to have an interesting game.
Post by: smakemupagus on March 09, 2015, 04:08:28 am
(1) Open door policy: no hiding from sieges - victory or death!
(2) Any enemy caught in a cage trap must be pitted into an arena with his gear intact, and dispatched in fair combat.
Post by: Gamerlord on March 09, 2015, 06:35:00 am
(3) Restrict yourself to one weapon/armour material that you decide before embark - and no peeking with dfhack to find out what ores there are!
(4) Play a fort with open door policy with only archers. (Hard, but fun.)
Post by: Meph on March 09, 2015, 08:26:33 am
Post by: RodriguesSting on March 09, 2015, 12:12:57 pm
Orcs do not sow.
Post by: Splint on March 09, 2015, 11:48:16 pm
Post by: Arcvasti on March 11, 2015, 11:56:32 pm
Post by: RodriguesSting on March 12, 2015, 12:01:29 am
Post by: Splint on March 12, 2015, 01:28:21 am
I am definitely not ready for a surface run, either orcs or humans. Blocks add value up rather quickly, I got a huge first immigration wave (12+) right after finishing the walls and some apartments. I shiver to think what would happen if I get an invasion. Also, bone, as nice and dandy as it is, is really not as efficient as I thought. Gotta re-learn how to use clay and make the most out of the damn factory.
With humans it's sort of obligatory to build mostly on the surface due to thier form of cave adaptation being highly detrimental to them.
If 12 is your idea of huge, you'll have a heart attack if you have unrestricted migration active and just sold off a pile of gold crap or salvaged weapons.
Bone is effective against anything wearing little or no armor. With a steady flow of dead things it's basically an infinite resource, but restrict it to use as lightweight ranged weapons and training ammo for the most part and making ironbone/bloodsteel.
With factory produced clay bricks, it's just a simple matter of collect clay/anything else gathered like clay, and have the factory make the bricks. Simple as that. no drying, pottery, or anything. Just be wary it only turns out earthenware so if you do want the value, make bricks the old fashioned way for fireclay. It'll also use peat for the task.
Post by: smakemupagus on March 12, 2015, 03:15:09 am
I became more confident with aquifers through playing orcs, because you can always just run a nice surface clanhold until you break through. And if all else fails, there's always the fallback plan to raid for a fluidsource and burn your way through :)
Post by: Zuzu Reish on March 12, 2015, 11:14:23 am
Of course I don't know how to get around the obvious issue of loyalty cascades, so I haven't tried this. I suppose one could simply not attack the caravan...
Post by: smakemupagus on March 12, 2015, 11:22:43 am
You don't have to kill the caravans, you could always route them to a waiting room that just happens to fill with magma on rare occasions, or near a bridge that just happens to not be up to safety code.
Post by: RodriguesSting on March 12, 2015, 11:35:30 am
I will really try out earthenware for my next embark. Will also not fret about aquifers either. Just gotta make sure to have some clay easily available.
Post by: Zuzu Reish on March 14, 2015, 01:23:02 am
I do have one question, that is related to vanilla, but I thought I might as well post it since my orcs built it. Uzguulidnazaguu Zagazog: This is a bone buckler, All craftsorcship is of the highest quality, it is decorated with bone. This object menaces with spikes of bone and bone.
Does an artifact shield of any kind really have any benefit over their counterparts; or for that matter, do shields benefit from any quality modifiers at all? I know that armor receives a deflection bonus based on quality, but I don't know if that applies to shields. That, coupled with the fact that bucklers have a generally inferior block%, is it worth equipping a soldier with an artifact buckler over, say, a kite shield?
Post by: vjmdhzgr on March 14, 2015, 01:47:41 am
I'm glad that the SLF idea has gotten some good reception, I'll follow up with it eventually, once I can actually play on an up-to-date version of the mod.I've done the calculations many, many times already. First shields are affected by quality levels, they become more likely to block attacks the higher the quality. Artifact is a x3 multiplier to to-hit and all that stuff, and bucklers have a blockchance of 10, there's nothing specifically saying that means 10%, but that probably doesn't matter. Anyway, in Masterwork kite shields have a blockchance of 30 meaning that an artifact (x3) bucklers (10) probably has the same blockchance as a base level kite shield. With round shields it would be at exceptional that a round shield would be better than an artifact buckler.
I do have one question, that is related to vanilla, but I thought I might as well post it since my orcs built it. Uzguulidnazaguu Zagazog: This is a bone buckler, All craftsorcship is of the highest quality, it is decorated with bone. This object menaces with spikes of bone and bone.
Does an artifact shield of any kind really have any benefit over their counterparts; or for that matter, do shields benefit from any quality modifiers at all? I know that armor receives a deflection bonus based on quality, but I don't know if that applies to shields. That, coupled with the fact that bucklers have a generally inferior block%, is it worth equipping a soldier with an artifact buckler over, say, a kite shield?
Post by: Zuzu Reish on March 14, 2015, 11:01:31 am
I'm glad that the SLF idea has gotten some good reception, I'll follow up with it eventually, once I can actually play on an up-to-date version of the mod.I've done the calculations many, many times already. First shields are affected by quality levels, they become more likely to block attacks the higher the quality. Artifact is a x3 multiplier to to-hit and all that stuff, and bucklers have a blockchance of 10, there's nothing specifically saying that means 10%, but that probably doesn't matter. Anyway, in Masterwork kite shields have a blockchance of 30 meaning that an artifact (x3) bucklers (10) probably has the same blockchance as a base level kite shield. With round shields it would be at exceptional that a round shield would be better than an artifact buckler.
I do have one question, that is related to vanilla, but I thought I might as well post it since my orcs built it. Uzguulidnazaguu Zagazog: This is a bone buckler, All craftsorcship is of the highest quality, it is decorated with bone. This object menaces with spikes of bone and bone.
Does an artifact shield of any kind really have any benefit over their counterparts; or for that matter, do shields benefit from any quality modifiers at all? I know that armor receives a deflection bonus based on quality, but I don't know if that applies to shields. That, coupled with the fact that bucklers have a generally inferior block%, is it worth equipping a soldier with an artifact buckler over, say, a kite shield?
Thanks for this, it's something I've wondered for a while. I usually find a way to use artifact equipment in the field (even if it's made of a generally inferior material). But the buckler only has a value of 4800 and given that, I'm going to simply use it as a low-level decoration in a display stand - something that will increase the value of a shaman's room or something.
Post by: Meph on March 24, 2015, 11:38:24 am
Post by: smakemupagus on March 24, 2015, 06:31:03 pm
Things changing grumble grumble ;)
Post by: Meph on March 24, 2015, 08:39:23 pm
It goes from top to bottom in the raws, counting the item types. WEAPON is one. AMMO is another type.
So if I have 5 weapons in this order: Axe, Sword, Bow, Pike, Spear, than Axe (0), Sword (1), Bow (2), Pike (3) and Spear (4).
Thats their override numbers. If I add a new weapon at the end, after Spear, nothing bad happens. If I add a new weapon before Axe, everything breaks. If I add a new weapon after Bow, half of the stuff will break. Lets add a hammer:
Axe (0), Sword (1), Bow (2), Hammer(3), Pike (4) and Spear (5). Axe, sword and bow still look ok, hammer will look like a pike, pike will look like a spear and spear will not have a graphic at all.
If there is a item_weapon.txt and you add all your new stuff to item_z_weapon.txt, NOTHING WILL BREAK! that's the easiest solution.
I'll sort this and make graphics and overrides later, there is no need for you to do this.
Post by: smakemupagus on March 25, 2015, 12:22:18 am
there is no need for you to do this.
Nice. Learning I don't need to worry about it is the best kind of learning 8)
Post by: Meph on March 25, 2015, 01:47:26 am
Post by: smakemupagus on March 25, 2015, 11:36:37 am
Post by: Meph on March 27, 2015, 04:55:07 am
Do the scripts or whatever black art enable the "upgradable tent" system that the kobolds used in 6.2 still work in the new version? If that is not too tricky to learn how to do I will try to use it to reduce the menu clutter that comes from the unlockable Looted tech and labor camps, etc.Yes, they do. They might use a different syntax though, I havent tested them with the modtools thing yet.
Roses wrote them, it'S called building_upgrade. He can tell you more about it, but it is pretty simple to set up.
Post by: smakemupagus on March 27, 2015, 02:15:44 pm
Post by: NukeACitrus on April 02, 2015, 12:39:37 am
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The salty orcish corsair dreams of far distant lands, a paradise of plunder and pillage that indeed calls out to the water-touched thugs of the horde. This calling has lead one particular corsair war chief and his ragtag band of boyz and girlz to an secluded beech nestled in between two majestic mountains, protecting the orcs cunning plans from prying, jealous eyes.
Here shall rise an beacon of orcish might and wealth, waving an taunting bird at anyone who might want to challenge the horde, in the shape of an snazzy castle, all made out bones of fallen foes (mostly animals. What, it still counts! HEY, come over here and say that ya git!).
A problem that soon presented itself to the laboring orcs was the ocean itself. It was both inviting with it's alluring promise of freedom through open waters but at the same time unwelcoming with it's meter high waves assaulting its beaches relentlessly. This proved to be somewhat problematic as orcs started to complain over saltwater in their boar meat, but also prevented the Corsair from constructing the dry dock for his ships right at the edge of the water. The war chief was stumped, but not beaten. As threats of violence did not seem to affect the waves that much, the war chief concluded that it was time to be cunning, but brutal, and brutal but cunning. But how can one beat what feels no pain?
The weeks went by, and the disgruntled corsair found himself stuck a stone throw away from the beach, the constantly moving waves taunting him as the groups' peons worked on the forts early defenses as it's crafters pushed out armor and weapons, preparing for the promised raids.
The winter season rolled in from the south, the lands and the bears slowly drifted into an slumber. But they were not alone. The cold breeze seemed to affect even the mighty ocean itself, the Corsair confirmed while he noticed the waves shrinking in size for every passing day. A week later, the ocean laid calm and silent, frozen solid from the cold season's embrace. Somewhere deep inside that thick orcish skull adorning the Corsairs body, an idea sparked to life. His enemy had been put to rest, slumbering silently, unable to defend itself. Now was the time to be brutally cunning, and cunningly brutal. It was time to attack this slumbering behemoth, and take full advantage of it's weak state. Barking orders left and right, kicking and cursing, he got the entire fort up to its feet.
Miners started digging out paths through the frozen ocean, masons hurried back and forth between the coast and the fort, while wheelbarrow after wheelbarrow full of bones dumped it's load at the bone-carvers workshop. Day and night the orcs toiled, a constant murmur of profanity and death threats sweeping over the beach as the Corsairs cunning plans took shape. It seemed impossible, but somehow, armok knows why, the orcs put the last finishing touches to the crazy plan just in time before the ocean started to wake up, crackling and rumbling as it woke from its deep slumber.
The corsair looked upon his beach, arms proudly folded behind his back as he gazed out over his creation. This was truly a good day to be an orc.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
A massive wavebreaker, 100% made out of bones had been erected in front of the fort, shielding it from the watery oceans fury, it's waves breaking like glass against the mighty orc-made wall.
Today is an milestone in Orcish engineering has been reached. Orcish engineers throughout the lands cheers and rejoys, putting their behinds on display for the silly little gnomes. "Who's the smart bunch now, eh??". Busy dry docks shall soon litter the coast - the home of an mighty orchish fleet, the greedy orcs already dreaming of coin and gem, slave and meat. There's an hint of promised profit in the air, and this corsair has his eyes set on the nearby human towns, a sinister grin adoring his scared face as he hoists his iron scimitar to the skies, awakening a massive WAAAAAAGH in his fellow kin that echoes out over the open waters of the now beaten sea.
( Can't wait until we can enjoy masterwork in 40.24. But until that day, happy pillaging fellow Orcs!)
Post by: smakemupagus on April 02, 2015, 12:32:25 pm
How many creatures did it take? The fort walls are bone too?
Post by: NukeACitrus on April 02, 2015, 01:45:06 pm
PS: I can't seem to use my elven captives, even though I have them in cages, stockpiled in my fort.
Am I doing something wrong?
Post by: smakemupagus on April 03, 2015, 12:37:25 am
The "elven captive" in a labor cell is an artifact that comes from raiding.
Post by: Splint on April 09, 2015, 12:26:33 am
Post by: smakemupagus on April 09, 2015, 01:07:21 am
So.... What exactly are bomb satchels and detonator packs supposed to do? Some sort of explosive attack I assume. The manual says they're carried in the off-hand, which they are, but they don't seem to really do anything.
Huh. Definitely used to work like so...
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=125678.msg4220459#msg4220459
The elves are spaced out in that pic there so you can visualize the blast in clear intuitive units like EDDs (elf deca deaths)
Sapper is an on Flee act (might even give to a cowardly civilian rather than fighter snaga). Flamethrower and stikkbombs are like firebreath and fireball, to be used on attack.
I'll check it when I get a chance. Some of the magic off hands got screwed up in v4 or 5 but I thought I got it fixed.
Post by: Splint on April 09, 2015, 01:21:42 am
Post by: smakemupagus on April 09, 2015, 09:19:15 am
Then perhaps the new manual should point out such, although in my case it was a stickbomb satchel and didn't see use.
I'm not likely to put a lot of work into the manual, I'm sorry. I will include contributions and try to delete stuff that's out of date.
Post by: Splint on April 09, 2015, 09:39:07 am
Then perhaps the new manual should point out such, although in my case it was a stickbomb satchel and didn't see use.
I'm not likely to put a lot of work into the manual, I'm sorry. I will include contributions and try to delete stuff that's out of date.
Well, for something like what you described, context is kinda important so you know who to give what so the big brave uruk doesn't carry a run away satchel when he should be hoofing grenades.
Post by: smakemupagus on April 09, 2015, 12:22:57 pm
i have mixed opinions about manuals. I like the opportunity to share information and etc. with the player, but it creates such an expectation that it is a sacred document and people get really upset when it's wrong (not saying this is you now), and I don't have the time to create or maintain it at such a high level, and i don't enjoy the stress that comes with sort of half-assing it and then upsetting people. DF doesn't have a manual, most other mods don't have manuals, Triple-A big studio releases don't even have a manual anymore :P
Post by: Splint on April 09, 2015, 01:11:34 pm
Plus with the manual you don't end up having to answer the same questions a dozen times over (What building does this? Where do I do that? What does this or that do?) Took me ages to figure out how to make bloodsteel and ironbone with dwarves cause nobody would ever answer; only figured it out thanks to the manual and even then it took me a while because of the entry the relevant stuff was under.
I mean I'd write some kind of manual (at least the text for it, I'm no good with formatting or anything) if I knew what half the stuff in any one race did.
EDIT: As an aside, you may need to iron out a bug with makeshift armor. I caught a guy working the same armor over and over again even with separate orders and a stockpile for the armor.
Post by: smakemupagus on April 09, 2015, 02:49:08 pm
But thing is, I really just don't have the kind of time that i did a couple years ago, so when I have time it's like, I can choose one of (modding or playing or documenting).... it's just going to be rare that i choose documenting, especially since that's something that in principle other folks could help with more easily than bugfixing. BTW it's the formatting and pictures and junk that I don't like and/or am not good at doing, too ~~
Post by: Meph on April 11, 2015, 03:13:33 am
Post by: bzro on April 15, 2015, 01:12:34 pm
*EDIT
The issue seems to have resolved itself. I got a new Migrant wave and one of them just went ahead and did it. Still not sure what happened, but it appears not to matter anymore
Post by: smakemupagus on April 15, 2015, 05:46:42 pm
Post by: Wyzack on April 17, 2015, 12:31:10 pm
EDIT: they also are leaving food on the floor in my food stockpile despite having barrels available.
Post by: smakemupagus on April 17, 2015, 12:46:30 pm
> no one will tan a damn thing to make any leather
> no one will make copper bodkin arrows despite having a large pile of copper bars and fuel
> Anyone know what might be causing it?
Either player error (stockpiles, links, wrong workshops, labors, etc.) or the vanilla "burrows bug"; if you're really stumped post the save. Burrows bug is a pathfinding issue and usually resolves if you have the manager run the reaction once. (... Of course orc fortress like anything has some bugs but not in such fundamental things, this version has been stable and played by hundreds of people for over a year.)
> piles of skin that have for whatever reason been moved to my food stockpile
This is normal in masterwork, these items are "globs" for technical reasons related to leather scaling with size of creature.
> EDIT: they also are leaving food on the floor in my food stockpile despite having barrels available
This is a vanilla DF mechanic, nothing modded can have any bearing on that as far as i know.
Post by: slay_mithos on April 17, 2015, 12:59:48 pm
It can be easily seen with prepared food, for example, as they are stores just right when in small stacks, but when you make big stacks, they often can't be stored.
I suspect that some of the globs (skin, fat, ...) have an individual size that is so big that even small stacks can't fit in barrels.
Post by: smakemupagus on April 17, 2015, 01:12:58 pm
I suspect that some of the globs (skin, fat, ...) have an individual size that is so big that even small stacks can't fit in barrels.
Ah, yeah, thanks for the clarification. That is in fact something modded that could have a bearing on it ^^
So practically speaking a globs-only food stockpile in between your butchers and tanners might help your fort logistics. I also like to use a corpses-only refuse stock near the butchers, possibly with wheelbarrows if you're slaughtering/fighting lots of big creatures. Even then I might have as many as 4 to 6 butcher and tanner shops each in a 200 orc fort, if i really am trying to process everything available.
Post by: Wyzack on April 17, 2015, 03:29:41 pm
EDIT: It seems it had something to do with the dwarven invaders, they kinda got stuck by the edge of the map after their leader fled. Picking them off with arrows from a distance seems to have done the trick
Post by: Wyzack on April 17, 2015, 06:29:08 pm
Post by: Splint on April 17, 2015, 06:47:34 pm
Doubleposting for one last quick question, what bars do i need to make a blacksmoke forge and stuff? It asks for 3 ORC_INDUSTRY_MAT bars but i have no idea what that is and the manual doesnt say
Presumably rusty iron.
Post by: vjmdhzgr on April 17, 2015, 07:08:42 pm
Doubleposting for one last quick question, what bars do i need to make a blacksmoke forge and stuff? It asks for 3 ORC_INDUSTRY_MAT bars but i have no idea what that is and the manual doesnt saySome form of iron. I think rusty iron, iron, and steel all work.
Post by: Wyzack on April 17, 2015, 07:14:12 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on April 17, 2015, 08:13:52 pm
Post by: Wyzack on April 17, 2015, 08:33:23 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on April 17, 2015, 09:04:13 pm
Someone has suggested an equipable enchanted armor, maybe of netherleather, crafted at the Icecrystal sanctum that can insulate other orcs from frost magic (frostskalds themselves are immune natively). If it is technically feasible to set HOMEOTHERM using itemsyndrome i'd try to implement it in Reborn some day.
Post by: Wyzack on April 18, 2015, 10:59:10 am
Post by: Emperor on April 18, 2015, 11:01:43 am
I am having a hard time getting my archers and gunners to pick up ammunition. They go to where i station them, but they do not fire and examining their quivers shows there is nothing there. I have plenty of ammunition available. The ammunition is also within the only burrow i have, so i cannot imagine this is the issue. I do not remember this bug being in vanilla .34, is anyone else having this problem?
Archers and gunners with individual choice ranged weapon tend to pick up wrong ammo. Try assigning it manually.
Post by: Wyzack on April 18, 2015, 11:34:12 am
Post by: smakemupagus on April 18, 2015, 12:40:18 pm
Post by: Wyzack on April 18, 2015, 12:53:00 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on April 18, 2015, 11:33:08 pm
Post by: Tzyx on April 24, 2015, 04:33:12 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on April 24, 2015, 05:34:18 pm
Post by: Wyzack on April 25, 2015, 10:14:33 am
Post by: smakemupagus on April 25, 2015, 05:45:22 pm
Post by: dimescion on April 26, 2015, 11:28:57 am
Post by: Wyzack on April 26, 2015, 11:52:54 am
Post by: dimescion on April 26, 2015, 12:06:27 pm
Post by: Wyzack on April 26, 2015, 12:18:28 pm
Also anyone have cool ideas for a fort layout? My usual square fort with fortifications on the second level is uninspired and really boring
Post by: smakemupagus on April 26, 2015, 03:15:46 pm
Well if you have a river you can funnel water down to the magma sea but it will ruin your fps
Yep, this! Sometimes the deep caverns will have a lake, too, which is renewable if it touches the edge of the map.
If you're lucky in raiding or find a Blood of Armok, you can make a Fluid Source building that fills tramcarts with magma or water.
Post by: dimescion on April 26, 2015, 04:29:03 pm
In my next orc fortress I am gonna have all my frostskalds locked in a dungeon, only releasing them to kamikaze the enemy during sieges.
Also anyone have cool ideas for a fort layout? My usual square fort with fortifications on the second level is uninspired and really boring
One word: Magmamoat
I heard somewhere that in real life forts were often triangular for some reason. Due to the square tiles your orcs will move faster diagonally than they would in real life.
Post by: Urist McTeellox on May 25, 2015, 01:38:34 pm
Yeah, I also get many less scalps and souls than I have dead enemies, which i don't really understand either. Possibly, just need more tanners and totem poles, to preserve the items before they go bad, as you said.
I have the same problem. Which is why I always complain about why they don't just use totems. If you don't get around to processing that skull for a few weeks, it's still a skull ... but a scalp is dried up jerky and a soul is ... well, I don't know what an expired soul is. :)
As was mentioned, a skull could be from anything, including domestic animals. The scalp system means you *have* to fight, as they're only dropped by the Great Races (whatever they happen to be now). :)
In my orcish forts, each citizen had their own three-level dwelling, consisting of their living quarters, personal workshop, and tomb. When an enemy is slain, their skulls were used to decorate the tomb, making it more and more badass until the orc falls in battle and their death celebrated. Consequently, I made sure that skulls didn't have any competing uses; I didn't want folks to feel torn between utility and decorating the halls with skulls of their enemies. :)
(Also... hello again, everyone!)
~ T
Post by: smakemupagus on May 25, 2015, 11:25:12 pm
Post by: vonsch on May 26, 2015, 03:01:03 pm
This is the last (final?) release of Masterwork for 34. Haven't tinkered with the current version of DF to date. (MASTERWORK-DF☼ 34.11 - V.6.2 )
Post by: -Nihil- on May 26, 2015, 05:25:28 pm
Is there any document of the plans for the reborn orcs?
Edit: I know that the raiding and retaliation will need to be reworked with the new army system but that can wait.
More edits: I decided to go ahead and implement those additional creatures in v34 for myself at least. I can easily adjust them for v40 when the time comes. I might try and balance the rest of the animals a bit too. I have the arctic foxes, stag moose, caribou, and grouse implemented so far.
Post by: smakemupagus on May 27, 2015, 02:57:59 pm
A straight port from 34 would be helpful especially if folks are itching to play, but that's a pretty big task, so it's up to you.
There's no plan document except in my head, but we can probably come up with projects one at a time.
* The new domestic animals would indeed be a really efficient way to help. (do you have graphics for them too, or willing to tackle that?)
* I don't know that it is possible to do retaliation for raids at all any more, it's not just a matter of reworking it. if anyone knows otherwise please advise.
Been playing an Orc fort again and noticed there is no unpack option for crates of gold bars in the trade building. Everything else I have bought unpacks fine. May not be specific to Orcs though. I haven't had a chance to check any other races.
This is the last (final?) release of Masterwork for 34. Haven't tinkered with the current version of DF to date. (MASTERWORK-DF☼ 34.11 - V.6.2 )
Confirmed; it is Orc specific. Replace
[PERMITTED_REACTION:CRATE_STEEL]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:CRATE_COPPER]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:CRATE_BRONZE]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:CRATE_IRON]
with
[PERMITTED_REACTION:CRATE_MITHRIL]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:CRATE_STEEL]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:CRATE_GOLD]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:CRATE_BRONZE]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:CRATE_COPPER]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:CRATE_IRON]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:CRATE_ZINC]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:CRATE_BRASS]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:CRATE_NICKEL]
in entity, requires new world.
Post by: -Nihil- on May 27, 2015, 03:30:42 pm
If you want I can try and clean up the rest of the animal entries and make them as consistent as possible. Then I could port those to v40.
Post by: smakemupagus on May 27, 2015, 04:02:12 pm
I found some graphics in the critters.png that fit for them all. I am always impressed by the amount of graphics that are included but not used.
If you want I can try and clean up the rest of the animal entries and make them as consistent as possible. Then I could port those to v40.
Sure, that sounds great! Please make Mumaks especially and the big ruminantes (auroch, carabou, moose) actually take a fair bit of pasture space, not crazy so they're hard to keep alive, but so that you actually have to put aside a couple hundred tiles of grazeland if you want to keep a herd of the big guys. Thanks!
Post by: -Nihil- on May 27, 2015, 04:10:08 pm
I found some graphics in the critters.png that fit for them all. I am always impressed by the amount of graphics that are included but not used.
If you want I can try and clean up the rest of the animal entries and make them as consistent as possible. Then I could port those to v40.
Sure, that sounds great! Please make Mumaks especially and the big ruminantes (auroch, carabou, moose) actually take a fair bit of pasture space, not crazy so they're hard to keep alive, but so that you actually have to put aside a couple hundred tiles of grazeland if you want to keep a herd of the big guys. Thanks!
Definitely, I will try and balance the animals in a realistic way. As it is right now Mumaks require 1/10 the pasture as vanilla cows do. Of course, in vanilla elephants die because they can not graze fast enough... so I will tweak the values and figure out what makes sense.
Also, how do you feel about squigs?
Post by: smakemupagus on May 27, 2015, 04:33:51 pm
Definitely, I will try and balance the animals in a realistic way. As it is right now Mumaks require 1/10 the pasture as vanilla cows do. Of course, in vanilla elephants die because they can not graze fast enough... so I will tweak the values and figure out what makes sense.
Also, how do you feel about squigs?
Yep, well, that's a Masterwork universe thing. All grazers required very little space in the old version of Masterwork, so I couldn't balance to vanilla entirely. Anyway vanilla 0.34 was kind of ridiculous in that regard, elephants not being able to feed themselves etc. Anyway I trust your judgement, sounds like we're pretty much on the same page.
I like squigs in general, but you can please make them do live births instead of eggs. Keep them pretty cheap, and people who don't like squigs will have your new animals for other options for vermin control and different ranching options.
Post by: -Nihil- on May 27, 2015, 05:10:43 pm
Yep, well, that's a Masterwork universe thing. All grazers required very little space in the old version of Masterwork, so I couldn't balance to vanilla entirely. Anyway vanilla 0.34 was kind of ridiculous in that regard, elephants not being able to feed themselves etc. Anyway I trust your judgement, sounds like we're pretty much on the same page.
I like squigs in general, but you can please make them do live births instead of eggs. Keep them pretty cheap, and people who don't like squigs will have your new animals for other options for vermin control and different ranching options.
Done with the dire wolves for now, working on the squigs. They now give life birth which makes sense considering you can milk them. I kept the littersize the same as the egg clutch size.
What colour are these squigs exactly?
Post by: smakemupagus on May 27, 2015, 05:23:56 pm
Post by: -Nihil- on May 27, 2015, 05:39:59 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on May 27, 2015, 05:43:14 pm
Post by: -Nihil- on May 27, 2015, 07:01:42 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on May 27, 2015, 09:07:11 pm
I could be talked into it maybe, but I decided against it since no other creatures in Dwarf Fortress world go by their classical taxinomic name. No greek or latin language in DF after all.
Post by: -Nihil- on May 27, 2015, 09:21:47 pm
I am mostly finished with the changes to the v34 animals. Grazing values have been adjusted inbetween what they were in masterwork and vanilla. Based on the wiki I got a minimum pasture size that should feed them without fail.
Mumak: 10x10 each
Auroch: 5x5 each
Stag Moose: 4x4 each
Caribour: 3x3 each
Just need to make sure the Mumaks dont trample the ground too much to be fed by that size of pasture...
Post by: -Nihil- on May 27, 2015, 11:56:12 pm
http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=10889
Anyone out there that is playing orc fort it would be greatly appreciated if you install these modifications for your next fort.
New additions are as follows:
Arctic Foxes: Small mammal, hunts vermin, valuable pelts
Stag Moose: Large mammal, milkable, useful for meat industry
Caribou: Medium mammal, milkable, useful for meat industry
Grouse: Small bird, lays eggs
Grazing requirements are determined based on body mass and significantly more land is required than previous versions. Let me know if you have trouble with pasture space for any of the animals in particular. Mumaks should require a 10x10 pasture each but more may be necessary due to their grass trample value.
All of the values I used were based on real world equivalents and as such they may be unbalanced for gameplay. I will likely nerf the birth rate of some of these animals for the next release. I have not modified the pet values(how much they cost) any as I would like to see how valuable the current versions are in game first. So let me know how useful you feel each of the animals(both new and old) are.
Please let me know of any balance suggestions you may have or if you feel a certain role needs more options for the player.
Post by: Meph on June 01, 2015, 02:25:36 am
Post by: -Nihil- on June 01, 2015, 01:52:13 pm
Nihil, could you please keep me in the loop when you do raw changes/updates? If I know about them, I can check them and incorporate them into the 40.x version.
Sure, I have not updated these for v40 yet. I will send you a message when I have done so.
Post by: Meph on June 02, 2015, 03:02:00 am
Post by: Spleenling on June 16, 2015, 04:52:11 am
Post by: smakemupagus on June 16, 2015, 09:26:26 am
Post by: Spleenling on July 02, 2015, 02:09:16 am
Post by: smakemupagus on July 02, 2015, 10:02:04 am
* The Manager on repeat (fill magmatanker) combined with the minecart interface (push when more than half full, for example) works fine
* Remember that magma evaporates, so you don't want to try to fill a huge space all at once. You can easily fill a small cistern and use floodgate plumbing to fill a forge area, or deploy the liquids more controllably for aquifer/obsidian/etc. over some time.
* Lever actuated, Windmill powered pumps over a fluidcaster filled cistern are the most reliable weaponization I've come up with
Quote from: manual
Fluidcaster
Our outriders have been tracking a number of new dwarven settlements in the contested frontier. As you know, we track these settlements closely since dwarves are prone to maddeningly stupid behavior, and failed fortresses might as well be free loot. This settlement we're visiting today is the key one -- yes, warchief, it is on an aquifer. Yes, on a carp breeding ground, exactly. They might as well start crafting their own gabbro coffins? Yes, warchief, that's what we thought as well. What's more, they just drilled straight down into the aquifer like a addleheaded human child. Yes, warchief, it is madness.
There, on the edge of the, do you see this building? It has wheelbarrels of coal going in? Those are tankers coming out. Tankers? It is like a mine-cart, but see how it is full of water? Yes. Well, yesterday it was full of liquid fire. Many coal loads went in, and many tankers of liquid fire came out, and then the dwarves went back into the pit with their picks. Yes, I'm sure. Yes, two of them came running out with their beards on fire afterwards. Yes, warchief, it is madness.
...You are pretty sure that your scouts are not creative enough to spin this tall tale with no basis. But, is it really possible the dwarves have this technology?? If so, is it possible that the little bearded marvels are so stupid to deploy it for mining an aquifer in some third-rate provence forty league south of the middle of nowhere?
Post by: Spleenling on July 06, 2015, 06:14:42 pm
Post by: Splint on July 06, 2015, 09:10:31 pm
What do i do with scalps?
For orcs, I believe that would be making Honor Standards in the vanilla craftsman shop, which you need to make the Mead Hall and I think Society Arms Kits in there.
Post by: Kars on July 15, 2015, 12:19:50 pm
Post by: -Nihil- on July 15, 2015, 01:04:32 pm
Orcs reach adulthood at 5 years of age.
They grow quickly, have a lifespan greater than humans, but shorter than dwarves.
Post by: Splint on July 15, 2015, 02:25:31 pm
Orcs will die of old age between 80 and 110 years of age.
Orcs reach adulthood at 5 years of age.
They grow quickly, have a lifespan greater than humans, but shorter than dwarves.
Humans go from 60 to 120. Humans live slightly longer at max and have a much larger "randomly falls over dead" range, while orcs have a smaller range and live slightly shorter lives.
Post by: -Nihil- on July 15, 2015, 03:37:41 pm
Orcs will die of old age between 80 and 110 years of age.
Orcs reach adulthood at 5 years of age.
They grow quickly, have a lifespan greater than humans, but shorter than dwarves.
Humans go from 60 to 120. Humans live slightly longer at max and have a much larger "randomly falls over dead" range, while orcs have a smaller range and live slightly shorter lives.
The average orc will live until 95, the average human until 90.
Post by: Wyzack on July 17, 2015, 02:41:24 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on July 17, 2015, 11:27:10 pm
Post by: zach123b on July 18, 2015, 01:53:26 pm
Post by: Splint on July 18, 2015, 01:54:39 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on July 18, 2015, 03:39:56 pm
I'm open to help, people have already contributed (see Nihil above, eg). An experienced modder could probably do a straight port to 40.x in less than a weekend, I've already said several times I would welcome that. But experienced modders have their own projects. I'm not looking to lead a team effort of people who need organization and workflow and bugfixing, that's too much like work :p
Post by: -Nihil- on July 18, 2015, 04:17:27 pm
The port of the domestic creatures is half done or so. I can finish it in a night whenever I get the time really. Although I am not sure I really understand how the "gait" is implemented, I am just copying it from other comparable animals so it should work fine though.
Post by: smakemupagus on July 18, 2015, 07:32:26 pm
Post by: Meph on July 19, 2015, 04:19:06 am
Post by: smakemupagus on July 19, 2015, 08:55:07 am
It's likely there'll be at least a start available for people to play with by then, but your help will still be quite welcome :)
Where are you these days?
Post by: Meph on July 19, 2015, 09:03:24 am
I already got the Iran visa, just waiting for Turkmenistan now. Will go there on the 31.07, pass through quickly, then head into Iran. Have to take all my money in cash, and internet might be slim to non-existent for a while.
Bike is doing fine, but I need a haircut by now :D
Post by: smakemupagus on July 19, 2015, 01:13:56 pm
Continuing safe travels :D
Post by: Meph on July 19, 2015, 08:46:08 pm
Got only ~4000km and 5 countries to go for this year, I'll be home in no time. ;)
Post by: Kars on July 23, 2015, 03:10:55 am
Post by: Splint on July 23, 2015, 03:13:06 am
Post by: Wyzack on July 25, 2015, 03:14:39 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on July 25, 2015, 04:22:23 pm
It is definitely possible to leave the gates open, vanquish every enemy in melee, bury dozens if not hundreds of your own dead without a tantrum spiral, this is the usual path for my forts. (If you're really having trouble, I suggest more bling in dorms, mess hall etc. Booze, varied foods etc. If you are not taking special steps to keep your uruks and ologs happy, you're playing with fire!)
It's also possible to have a tantruming olog kill your clanleader with the high velocity corpse of your shaman, which I've seen at least once :p
Post by: Kars on July 25, 2015, 04:30:41 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on July 25, 2015, 05:12:43 pm
Forest spiders. Water dragons. Back in the old days, Dwarves riding VCCs or accompanied by lots of golems, and elves riding magmahounds. Centaurs, in the first year. Husks.
Post by: Kars on July 25, 2015, 05:36:21 pm
Post by: Splint on July 25, 2015, 05:41:04 pm
Post by: smakemupagus on July 25, 2015, 05:59:03 pm
Post by: Eko on July 28, 2015, 04:56:10 pm
I hate myself for leaving so suddenly and without anything to show for my work. I might pick it back up again, but I promise that this time I'll only post if I have something to show for it.
The reason that I'm posting in this thread is that I have something to show for myself. I did a quick and dirty update of the orcs to 2014. What I mean by "Quick and dirty" is actually "Mostly Broken". That said, there's enough here to get a decent game out of the raws. I've added the weapons, with what I think is decent approximations of numbers based off of similar items in the 2014 vanilla raws. I did a quick once-over of the pets, and with one exception (some color token...) no errors. I can't get the entity file to recognize the weapons yet, but I've spent several hours on the files, and I'm probably missing something stupid. Lastly, this does not include the scripts, at all, so the magic/trigger stuff doesn't seem to work all that well. I think some reactions worked? I can't really tell because I'm pretty bad at orcs and really only use the weapons/ologs/snaga (non-magic) in all the games I play, so I have no experience to really tell what all works/doesn't.
I uploaded this to github. I plan on doing any/all work I do for any project in the future on a site like github so that should I give up randomly again (sorry about that), there will be files for others that they can pick up and do whatever with. If Smake/Meph/anyone else who does masterwork-y stuff wants owner of the github project, just send me a PM, and I'll make it happen.
Also, the converse, if you want it off of github for whatever reason, just say the word, and I'll delete it all.
https://github.com/Empyrial/OrcNew
Enjoy!
Post by: smakemupagus on July 28, 2015, 05:24:00 pm
Welcome back!
I welcome other people doing whatever they like with Orcs, but I won't be using or participating in Github for my own development.
Post by: Meph on July 29, 2015, 04:53:44 am
Post by: DoX on August 05, 2015, 08:17:18 am
First orc fortress. Going pure tribal. No mining, no metalworking.
I've got clay and fireclay, but I can't seem to find the building for shaping it, just roasting it. I know the factory can make bricks, but not statues and pots and such. Where's the "pottery" building for orcs?
EDIT: Found it in the Raws. Muckraker.
Post by: smakemupagus on August 05, 2015, 11:51:25 am
Let me know how the muckraker works for you -- it was a late addition to the mod because the way clay-working is handled in Masterwork had changed (and I understood these changes imperfectly), so it's not tested as well as most of the other features.
To build each muckraker you'll need a goblin migrant (object) either from the Raider's Dock or from the Shadowbroker.
Post by: Meph on August 06, 2015, 07:27:36 am
So instead of putting a boulder of clay in a kiln, they shape a boulder of clay into the desired clay item in a workshop, then fire that clay item in the kiln.
+5% failure rate for impure clay/cracking when firing.
Post by: smakemupagus on August 06, 2015, 10:01:34 am
Post by: Meph on August 08, 2015, 09:22:32 am
Post by: IIzTrollin on October 15, 2015, 03:30:19 pm
Post by: -Nihil- on October 28, 2015, 04:30:32 pm
Hey i'm not sure if this is active anymore or not but i tried playing an orc fortress and it seems Dwarf Therapists wont let me change labors is this meant to happen or not and how do i fix it?
Generally I find that if no one else if having the issue then a clean reinstall will fix it. Just delete the folder and download the game again.
Post by: salsaheaven on December 04, 2015, 11:32:16 am
I cannot build a Freelancers Guild (where you can get out to raid). Whenever I try one i can select anything I need to build it (I think some coffers), but whenever I quit the building just disappears.
Any idea?
Post by: Hefateus on December 04, 2015, 11:39:05 pm
Post by: Meph on May 17, 2016, 02:32:02 am
Give me your orc suggestions!
Suggestions from my end:
- Ogres as friendly units.
- Creature-spawning workshop, like an Orc Beastmaster. Uses dfhack "create-unit" to make wargs, tames trolls, etc.
- Beast-Armory workshop, using dfhacks "modtools/equip-item" to put actual armor on pets.
- Spiritwalking workshop, like a Dreamwalkers Lodge, using dfhacks "strangemood" to induce strange moods on the worker, and control them slightly. Like setting their preferences for item-type and materials.
- Allow labor cells / prisoners to teach skill that fit them, for example dwarven prisoners teach mining/metalworking skills, etc.
Post by: Insanegame27 on May 17, 2016, 02:53:26 am
Meph casts thread-necromancy.With the new taverns/etc implementations, I would love to see Orcs 'corrupt' things into doing their dirty work, or something along those lines.
Give me your orc suggestions!
Suggestions from my end:
- Ogres as friendly units.
- Creature-spawning workshop, like an Orc Beastmaster. Uses dfhack "create-unit" to make wargs, tames trolls, etc.
- Beast-Armory workshop, using dfhacks "modtools/equip-item" to put actual armor on pets.
- Spiritwalking workshop, like a Dreamwalkers Lodge, using dfhacks "strangemood" to induce strange moods on the worker, and control them slightly. Like setting their preferences for item-type and materials.
- Allow labor cells / prisoners to teach skill that fit them, for example dwarven prisoners teach mining/metalworking skills, etc.
The big draw for orcs for me has always been their unique and deep culture.
Oh and the drydocks. Always bugged me that you could use them in say, a desert. If possible I would love to see that drydocks are only possible with a water source such as a river or ocean and introduce a building which serves the same purpose, 'Raiding house' or whatnot.
Post by: Boltgun on May 17, 2016, 03:00:18 am
And of course set their values and personalities to get the 'cause trouble' and 'fight' needs high, so they get good moods from combat.
Post by: Rumrusher on May 17, 2016, 03:44:08 am
isn't the drydocks called that because orks use an Airship than a normal water stuff? you float across the land in Blimps looking for folks to raid.Meph casts thread-necromancy.With the new taverns/etc implementations, I would love to see Orcs 'corrupt' things into doing their dirty work, or something along those lines.
Give me your orc suggestions!
Suggestions from my end:
- Ogres as friendly units.
- Creature-spawning workshop, like an Orc Beastmaster. Uses dfhack "create-unit" to make wargs, tames trolls, etc.
- Beast-Armory workshop, using dfhacks "modtools/equip-item" to put actual armor on pets.
- Spiritwalking workshop, like a Dreamwalkers Lodge, using dfhacks "strangemood" to induce strange moods on the worker, and control them slightly. Like setting their preferences for item-type and materials.
- Allow labor cells / prisoners to teach skill that fit them, for example dwarven prisoners teach mining/metalworking skills, etc.
The big draw for orcs for me has always been their unique and deep culture.
Oh and the drydocks. Always bugged me that you could use them in say, a desert. If possible I would love to see that drydocks are only possible with a water source such as a river or ocean and introduce a building which serves the same purpose, 'Raiding house' or whatnot.
god imagine a ork invasion where they just airdrop troops down onto your fort.
Post by: LMeire on May 17, 2016, 04:42:38 am
... isn't the drydocks called that because orks use an Airship than a normal water stuff? ...
A dry-dock (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_dock) is a special part of the harbor where ships are physically removed from the water so repairs and general maintenance can be done on the hull. A dock for airships is called a "mooring mast (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mooring_mast)".
--
Immobile "Battle Standard" pets made out of totems that boost morale to orcs in sight of it. Small, cumulative effects would be pretty neat, so a tribe noticeably grows in strength with every slain enemy.
An orc-only "reinvigoration" syndrome from contact with elf-blood, vengeance has been had and honor restored!
IIRC, orcs are supposed to be mostly above-ground, so maybe make them more irritable and tantrum prone when they're cooped up away from the sunlight? I don't really see them picking the "flight" option very often when fear of the dark gets them antsy.
Post by: smakemupagus on May 17, 2016, 09:59:07 am
Edit.
Although, surface dwelling "Steppe Clan" forts seem to be a forum favorite. Which is great, working as intended that multiple styles are possible. In the new version I am proposing that ironbone (or bonemold, as I'd rather call it) be a little weaker that it was in Old Masterwork so that surface orcs still have incentive to kill & loot invaders or strip mine for iron. What do you all think? Balance wise I think the upgraded organic metal Bloodsteel can still be pretty strong and we can tune for balance how hard it is to craft.
Post by: Meph on May 17, 2016, 10:15:16 am
My suggestion: Leave it at irongrade, make it lighter than iron, remove ITEM_WEAPONS and ITEM_AMMO from it. Make it a armor-only material. Thats both more realistic and forces you to get "real" metals for weapons.
Post by: smakemupagus on May 17, 2016, 10:34:35 am
Bonemold: Technically speaking its bone ground up, mixed with ash, hardened at a furnace. Stiff, but brittle. Not sharp by any means.
My suggestion: Leave it at irongrade, make it lighter than iron, remove ITEM_WEAPONS and ITEM_AMMO from it. Make it a armor-only material. Thats both more realistic and forces you to get "real" metals for weapons.
Not a bad idea. We have to make sure people can gear up in time for the early year 2 invations (which is the fun of orc mode of course). Still can go for rock or bone clubs & tomahawks, maybe spears, and obsidian or gem macuhuitls, which should be enough to waylay some dwarves and take their stuff. I'd say lets try it that way and see what people think.
Post by: Meph on May 17, 2016, 11:21:05 am
Quote
the early year 2 invationsnot a thing anymore. As I mentioned in a PM some time, armies now move across the map. Siege-timings are very, very different now.
Post by: smakemupagus on May 17, 2016, 11:24:13 am
Quotethe early year 2 invationsnot a thing anymore. As I mentioned in a PM some time, armies now move across the map. Siege-timings are very, very different now.
Awww. Right, i sort of knew that. All the more reason we won't need iron grade axes immediately. Well, Hopefully the new system is great too.
This total ignorance on my part illustrates to everyone how much we'll need your help with gameflow and balance testing this time around ;D
Post by: smakemupagus on May 17, 2016, 11:32:31 am
Post by: Meph on May 17, 2016, 01:18:57 pm
So, sites can be left and revisited without abadnoning, right? Does this mean we could have succession world where a Dwarf and Orc fort are founded like, 10 miles apart and can alternate turns in a community game format? Would that increase the odds or strength of invasions at the neighbor site ???Yes, that should be possible. :o
Post by: coolphoton on May 17, 2016, 01:42:34 pm
Post by: taldarus on May 17, 2016, 07:31:54 pm
I liked the tribal/'high' orc concept, but the 'high' orcs just always felt like regular dwarves, only good at fighting. (so easy mode)
1- I would want to see an expansion on the raiding system.
2- An arena of blood (pitting your own against trails, enemies, or traps), if they succeed they 'become' a warrior allowing them to raid or something. (someway to make losing a raid hurt.) The trial requires a 'skilled' warrior to survive, and it forces you to 'risk' someone powerful on the raid.
3- Tavern should be re-worked. Outsiders are 'welcome' to join the clan, but must prove themselves.
4- A reason to kill off the weak members of the tribe. Oh, Codex Alera has a fun mechanic, blood magic. But that is a bit feature creepy (Darn it, I want them necro's) :'(
Post by: Insanegame27 on May 18, 2016, 03:13:58 am
Post by: coolphoton on May 18, 2016, 05:31:53 pm
Feature creep, after a certain point, becomes versatility. It is why I am still playing the 6.2 MW. There aren't enough features yet in Reborn.
Post by: taldarus on May 18, 2016, 07:33:16 pm
@taldarus
Feature creep, after a certain point, becomes versatility. It is why I am still playing the 6.2 MW. There aren't enough features yet in Reborn.
Woah...Just realized the @taldarus felt totally hostile. Maybe it's cause I am waking up. Is that a thing? Cause I read your message and thought, "Hey buddy, get your @ outta my face!" O.o
Since I started the @'ing. Let me take back mine first. :P
But seriously, I am neutral on the feature creep. I was just trying to answer what meph would say. I've been reading up the last couple of weeks, and seen several times he mentioned avoiding feature creep. From a design perspective it's a good thing. As it means the factions SHOULD be significantly more diverse.
Let's take Bloodsteel:
Lots of factions used it, but because they all used it it made it blander.
Dwarves should have something like rocksteel (any boulder + any ore = rocksteel), because of there mastery of metalcraft. Rocksteel isn't as good as 'true steel', but is easily made (note: ANY ORE)
Orcs should get something totemic or shamanic so... (totem + leather = Totemic steel)
Necromancers should get something ritualistic Soul Steel (no materials, but ALWAYS kills the worker). Dwarves being the emotional tantruming babies would never EVER tolerate that.
Kobolds should get something haphazzard like Scrap Metal (er... a Metal called Scrap Metal). It definitely doesn't fit for Kobolds to get advanced, if any, metalwork. Bloodsteel never 'felt' right to me.
And that leads to another point of problem. Creep creeps, thats the problem. I ENJOY some feature creep (I like to play my dwarves more like Duergar), but I want dark 'evil' versions for ALL the factions. It's fun to me. But if all factions are dark, why make a necromancer faction at all?
skippable
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Anyway, Meph is trying to give a cool unique personality to each faction, and I support that (He is seasoning it his way). At the end of the day though, I could add in creep (I will tweak it to MY taste, not a thousand different people). It is really quite easy. Maybe 5 minutes of modding.
Post by: coolphoton on May 18, 2016, 09:37:08 pm
Post by: Splint on May 18, 2016, 09:48:17 pm
For orcs and warlocks it seems much more thematically appropriate because blood and bones are the one thing those civs should have in abundance, at least in the 34.11 version.
Post by: taldarus on May 18, 2016, 10:51:45 pm
Post by: Meph on May 19, 2016, 12:40:05 am
Bloodsteel will be back, for Orcs and Necromancers.
Kobolds obviously dont get it, they have no metals at all.
Dwarves wont get it. They are too elitist about metals.
Succubi might get it, depends on Boltgun.
Humans will be able to buy/get if from Orcs or Necromancers.
Post by: Boltgun on May 19, 2016, 03:54:28 am
Post by: smakemupagus on May 20, 2016, 04:41:36 pm
Spoiler: quickguide (click to show/hide)
Post by: Meph on May 20, 2016, 07:02:21 pm
You took out the philosophers/hermetic garden again?
Post by: smakemupagus on May 20, 2016, 07:20:06 pm
Post by: Meph on May 20, 2016, 11:37:51 pm
Yeah, eh, i just wasn't sure about it, for now I took out all the tavern and scriptorium type stuff until i understand the function of libraries in the main game.They have nothing to do with each other. One is for scholar skills, which are useless in fort mode, while your workshop trains social skills. Btw, getting training for STUDENT; LEADER, OBSERVER, BOOKKEEPING and APPRAISAL would be useful and fit the hermetic garden too.
Post by: LMeire on May 22, 2016, 06:48:45 am
Yeah, eh, i just wasn't sure about it, for now I took out all the tavern and scriptorium type stuff until i understand the function of libraries in the main game.They have nothing to do with each other. One is for scholar skills, which are useless in fort mode, ...
That's not completely true; reading library books can also improve Mechanics, Pump-Operation, Organizing, Record-Keeping and all of the medical skills- depending on what the subject is. It's also a handy tool for
Orcs could benefit from that last one by having a particularly war-mongering scholar write a whole bunch of books that imigrants of other races are then locked in a room with.
Post by: Splint on May 22, 2016, 12:20:23 pm
Post by: SpiritArmor on May 22, 2016, 12:46:57 pm
Ultra-hyped for the return of the green tide!
Post by: Kars on May 23, 2016, 01:40:30 pm