Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Grim Portent]

The big problem with the Chaos gods seems to be that in addition to being a reflection of the dominant emotions and forces in the Galaxy they also seem to enjoy the darker sides of their being. To use Tzeentch as an example, he actively enjoys treachery, betrayal, lies and so on, even though he in theory benefits just as much from innovation, liberation, progression and hope.

[pisskop]

are you claiming the eldar have their own chaos gods to contend with?

but theres no hint in the canon about that.

Ive always found the whole -mongol invasion -> khorne- bit stupid and thought it was a relic of the 80s.

[LordBaal]

I quite don't like how several of the chaos gods are too tied to mankind.

[Kot]

SIGMARINES
WE ARE THE EMPEROR'S FURY
AND ALSO THE OTHER EMPEROR'S FURY

DUAL WIELDING EMPERORS AND POPING CHAOSFUCKAS LIKE CRAZY

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Current gods are Humanity's gods. They were almost all created by humanity, after all, and it would be rather odd to believe that in the millions of years of the Eldar's existence, there were no wars or massacres large enough to trigger Khorne existing, while the Mongols managed to set him off, unless the psychic energy of the Eldar was feeding something else, which happened to be on less genocidal/parasitic terms with their followers.

That's something I like about Slaanesh, that it's specifically of both races.  Khorne and Khaine are very distinct (though...  I never realized how similar their names are.  Still, they're very clearly separate entities)

They don't even have a Tzeentch equivalent.  Which is ironic.  I'd say they only made gods of notable things, instead of a god of "being Eldar", but it's not like that stopped the God Emperor.

While Nurgle and the goddess of healing have certain things in common.

I know very little about Ynnead (Eldar death) and Malal (Human destruction).  The latter being completely ignored, the earlier being obscure I think.

Whereas the Laughing God is almost literally Coyote, heheh.  Tricksters survive.

Tzeentch is equivalent to Cegorach, their names are also similar.

Also Cegorach might literally be Tzeentch. Ynnead doesn't exist yet.

[Andres]

Current gods are Humanity's gods. They were almost all created by humanity, after all, and it would be rather odd to believe that in the millions of years of the Eldar's existence, there were no wars or massacres large enough to trigger Khorne existing, while the Mongols managed to set him off, unless the psychic energy of the Eldar was feeding something else, which happened to be on less genocidal/parasitic terms with their followers.

The Chaos Gods are not humanity's gods - they're gods created by everyone in the galaxy. The whole "they were formed because of humanity" was retconned a long time ago because it was stupid and didn't make sense. I urge you to stop preaching such falsehoods before someone ignorant of the truth begins to believe you. This is the truth:

Khorne, Tzeentch, and Nurgle developed over millions of years due to the War in Heaven, gaining sentience around the time of humanity's middle ages. The two things aren't related - it's pure coincidence.
Humans, while they make good food for Chaos and have a decent Warp signature, had very small numbers back in those days and were little more than a larger-than-average drop in the ocean in regards to what created the Chaos Gods. It was the quintillions of other life forms in the galaxy that contributed almost everything to the creation of those three Chaos Gods.
Hell, even in the tens of thousands of years after they'd gained sentience, even after humanity's numbers increased to the quadrillions, the Chaos Gods were still barely active, doing nothing of note.

I know very little about Ynnead (Eldar death) and Malal (Human destruction).  The latter being completely ignored, the earlier being obscure I think.

You're right to know nothing about Ynnead, because she doesn't exist yet. The Eldar, as of current canon, are still working on getting enough soul stones to birth her.

As for Malal, he is not the Chaos God of Human Destruction because:
a) He doesn't exist, and
b) If he did exist, he would be the Chaos God of Anarchy and Chaos, the representation and manifestation of Chaos' self-defeating nature.

Ive always found the whole -mongol invasion -> khorne- bit stupid and thought it was a relic of the 80s.

You have the right idea.

I quite don't like how several of the chaos gods are too tied to mankind.

They aren't. If every single human in the galaxy were to cease to exist in the same manner as Horus, the Chaos Gods would still continue to exist and would merely be badly weakened. You can kill literally everything in the Materium and they would continue to exist, because while they would be far weaker than they are now, they are sustained by ALL emotions, including the emotions generated in and by the Warp.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

They aren't. If every single human in the galaxy were to cease to exist in the same manner as Horus, the Chaos Gods would still continue to exist and would merely be badly weakened. You can kill literally everything in the Materium and they would continue to exist, because while they would be far weaker than they are now, they are sustained by ALL emotions, including the emotions generated in and by the Warp.

Not quite true: The Cabal's vision of the alternate timeline where Horus killed the Emperor does result in the destruction of the Chaos Gods as a result of Horus regaining his mind and going on a self-destructive crusade against humanity. Chaos proves too invested in the human race and collapses upon human extinction, restoring the original Empyrean.

Daemons, even up to the Ruinous Powers, are like knots formed in the stuff of the Warp. Too much devastation of their mortal sources can undo them.

[Loud Whispers]

They aren't. If every single human in the galaxy were to cease to exist in the same manner as Horus, the Chaos Gods would still continue to exist and would merely be badly weakened. You can kill literally everything in the Materium and they would continue to exist, because while they would be far weaker than they are now, they are sustained by ALL emotions, including the emotions generated in and by the Warp.

Not quite true: The Cabal's vision of the alternate timeline where Horus killed the Emperor does result in the destruction of the Chaos Gods as a result of Horus regaining his self and going on a self-destructive crusade against humanity. Chaos proves too invested in the human race and collapses upon human extinction, restoring the original Empyrean.

Daemons, even up to the Ruinous Powers, are like knots formed in the stuff of the Warp. Too much devastation of their mortal sources can undo them.

Aw that sucks. Humanity made the Universe shit. Although I imagine even with a normal empyrean, the nids would eat the bio races to death anyways

[Andres]

They aren't. If every single human in the galaxy were to cease to exist in the same manner as Horus, the Chaos Gods would still continue to exist and would merely be badly weakened. You can kill literally everything in the Materium and they would continue to exist, because while they would be far weaker than they are now, they are sustained by ALL emotions, including the emotions generated in and by the Warp.

Not quite true: The Cabal's vision of the alternate timeline where Horus killed the Emperor does result in the destruction of the Chaos Gods as a result of Horus regaining his mind and going on a self-destructive crusade against humanity. Chaos proves too invested in the human race and collapses upon human extinction, restoring the original Empyrean.

Daemons, even up to the Ruinous Powers, are like knots formed in the stuff of the Warp. Too much devastation of their mortal sources can undo them.

Isn't that from the same series of books that made Ollanius Pius into a Perpetual?

[Teneb]

They aren't. If every single human in the galaxy were to cease to exist in the same manner as Horus, the Chaos Gods would still continue to exist and would merely be badly weakened. You can kill literally everything in the Materium and they would continue to exist, because while they would be far weaker than they are now, they are sustained by ALL emotions, including the emotions generated in and by the Warp.

Not quite true: The Cabal's vision of the alternate timeline where Horus killed the Emperor does result in the destruction of the Chaos Gods as a result of Horus regaining his self and going on a self-destructive crusade against humanity. Chaos proves too invested in the human race and collapses upon human extinction, restoring the original Empyrean.

Daemons, even up to the Ruinous Powers, are like knots formed in the stuff of the Warp. Too much devastation of their mortal sources can undo them.

Aw that sucks. Humanity made the Universe shit. Although I imagine even with a normal empyrean, the nids would eat the bio races to death anyways

Nah, the Eldar made it shit. Humans just perpetuate its shittyness.

[Loud Whispers]

I've been thinking on how there is a serious age discrepancy between Chaos Space Marine characters and Space Marine characters. CSM have guys who fought the Emperor, Space Marine only have a handful alive who talked to guys who saw the Emperor. Could this be a case of the CSM living in the warp so they've experienced a few hundred years of warfare whilst the SM have experienced ten thousand? Could also explain why the CSM do not so completely outclass everyone with uber skills, because their skill levels and experience aren't too many leagues ahead of loyalists

[pisskop]

teh warp is specifically supposed to be a time flux.

presumably they can also use secret warp magic to revivify themselves.


but i mean, you dont hear about any non rubric mummy marines, so apparently time flux in the warp only works one way unless its comvenient for somebody to miss a battle or show up in a retcon 100 years later

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Isn't that from the same series of books that made Ollanius Pius into a Perpetual?

Just ignore that and pretend it's all Alpharus and John Grammaticus.

I've been thinking on how there is a serious age discrepancy between Chaos Space Marine characters and Space Marine characters. CSM have guys who fought the Emperor, Space Marine only have a handful alive who talked to guys who saw the Emperor. Could this be a case of the CSM living in the warp so they've experienced a few hundred years of warfare whilst the SM have experienced ten thousand? Could also explain why the CSM do not so completely outclass everyone with uber skills, because their skill levels and experience aren't too many leagues ahead of loyalists

The CSM are definitely dripping out of the Eye of Terror atemporally, and there's also more of them to escape since they're from the original 100k Legions. Mutation also probably lowers casualty rates and lets them survive things normal Astartes couldn't. And the Chaos Legions absolutely do still recruit new marines, it's just harder for them. God knows Honsou and Fabius Bile are all over that...

However, while your average Space Marine is probably more skilled than your average CSM, I'd say CSM champions are far beyond even the best Space Marine champions. And that's without the Daemon Princes. Nobody's going to beat Abbadon in a sword fight, shitty arms aside.

[Digital Hellhound]

The Cabal's vision - if it wasn't actually false and Chaos trickery - doesn't mean humanity created the Chaos Gods, just that the rapid and cataclysmic extinction of one of the most populous Chaos-supporting (Orks probably don't contribute a lot) race in the galaxy by the champion they've invested a lot of their own power into causes them to implode. That doesn't sound impossible to me - Horus at that point is so Warp-empowered he's like an Emperor Junior, ie, a god.

If, for some reason, you can't accept it, just interpret the vision as false. After all, Alpharius-Omegon did as they wanted and... it doesn't actually come to pass?

[LordBaal]

But in the lore is stated, or used to be, that we created Nurgle in the dark ages, Khorne was personally made by Gengis Kan...
If this was retconned, then finally GA would have done a good retcon with the lore.