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Author Topic: WH40K discussion thread: from Tyran's heart I stab at thee.  (Read 971196 times)

Kot

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Tau are sorta like the big E durring the great crusade in a way
But Emperor like real fire. Emperor like raging fire. Tau like... smoldering fire.
And all things considered, I wouldn't call Great Crusade humanity caste-based, maybe apart Marines (though really Marines aren't born that way), Custodes and assorted specialized troops, since it was very much meritocracy for Emperor, as long as you're human that is. An argument could be had for a caste system during later times in Imperium, but that's really as much of a caste system as just social classes, and even if you're otherwise seemingly incapable of escaping lower classes, ever-present military is the great equalizer if you miraculously manage to not die. There's also no real mind control, though Emperor did act like a huge dick at times messing with people to make them do the things he wanted them to do.
It's a neat comparison on the surface, but falls apart pretty quickly if you think about it, especially and mainly because Emperor took most of the Galaxy in like, two hundred years (granted, it was reconquest more than colonization, but that's another difference there) and Tau are millenia into the expansions, and it's arguable if they will continue them for much longer, what's with Tyranids, "Great Rift", Sautekh Dynasty, Startide Nexus being essentially what Emperor's Webway gate broken by Magnus was, and all that shit happening. It'd be more accurate to compare Tau to the Dark Age of Technology human expansions, though again it's much smaller in it's extent and impact, since Tau lack many things that made human colonization possible (like Gellar Fields, since apparently they can travel through warp with really bad results nowadays), and they are working to establish themselves in a much more hostile Galaxy, so naturally, they are and will be shat on very heavily.
As far as the "is the Tau space the least-shitty place to live" you have to answer yourself a question, is being a mind-controlled slave with truly no free thought who believes he lives in a paradise better than being a free-willed (though you will be shot and lobotomized for thinking wrong thoughts if you are unlucky enough to have a psyker listening by, but due to sheer logistic of the task nobody really bothers, which is why various cults can even take root in Imperial societies) slave (with I guess little free thought too, considering the indoctrination, but oh well) who sees with his own eyes he lives in a complete shithole. There are some further points like the capability of rising through the ranks, and subjectivity of life being shit in Imperium (since, just like real life, it's a giant dice roll, where you can end up as a menial on lower ass end of a Hive world, an wealthy aristocrat or might as well end up as a regular dude with home, car and desk job), but Tauboos heard those already and still prefer to believe in a lie of amazing society that doesn't actually exist.
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Kot finishes his morning routine in the same way he always does, by burning a scale replica of Saint Basil's Cathedral on the windowsill.

Digital Hellhound

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Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa it's happening

Okay okay I know 'in development' can mean 'it's done in 10 years or maybe never' but goddamn. Eisenhorn is a massive success for a reason and the Inquisition is pretty much the perfect entry point into the universe. If this works out, I imagine they might try shows that are more out there too. The people attached to this are super promising too.

I am so hyped it may even be heretical. I'm picturing something like Altered Carbon when it comes to production value and scale - that show was probably not the biggest or most expensive thing ever but it managed some fantastic visuals and design.

Let's just hope GW doesn't somehow turn this into another Ultramarines. Or another Eisenhorn mobile game, for that matter.
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LordPorkins

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Hey, and if the tv show works, they might branch out and experiment with other factions

I want an Ork Saturday Morning cartoon.
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spazyak

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Brothers in arm style drama about imperial guard.
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LordBaal

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40k cinematic universe.
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I'm curious as to how a tank would evolve. Would it climb out of the primordial ooze wiggling it's track-nubs, feeding on smaller jeeps before crawling onto the shore having evolved proper treds?
My ship exploded midflight, but all the shrapnel totally landed on Alpha Centauri before anyone else did.  Bow before me world leaders!

Trekkin

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"Hi, I'm Commander Kubrik Chenkov and this is Jackass."
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nenjin

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I expect a shitload of creative liberties will get taken with the source material. I can't really imagine TV producers being hyped about a character who can't emote because half their face is paralyzed for most of their career.

On the other hand I suppose that'd make casting the role a lot easier.....
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Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
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Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
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Kot

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It's pretty interesting, though I'm wary. TV Shows are generally more mainstream, and WH40k might have trouble translating well into mainstream. I'm also afraid of turning it into very political show, and whatnot, because of course it could be, but hopefully it's at least decent.
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Kot finishes his morning routine in the same way he always does, by burning a scale replica of Saint Basil's Cathedral on the windowsill.

nenjin

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That's the real question, innit? Can 40k be allowed to be what it is, in this day and age? It'd be very brave of them to unflinchingly be the 40k we know and love, but man they would take so much shit from people who have seen the Trump Emperor memes and believe this is the second coming of the Third Reich.

I hope they do it to the hilt. After all, there's no such thing as bad publicity.....right?
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

MetalSlimeHunt

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Speaking honestly, I don't think I want 40k to be more widely successful as it is. Until the vast authorship can do better with the sadly existing relationship between 40k and real world fascists than fumbling around "not being political", anything resembling a mainstream 40k would become an infestation of open fascist sentiment. Unfortunately, the relationship between 40k, satire in 40k, and authorial messaging in 40k is after decades of revision and hundreds of authors one of the most difficult to portray out there.

And to escape that difficulty you instead end up with what is basically neo-Nazism clad in Aquila and cut/pasted Trump faces.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
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MrRoboto75

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It'll just be a big dumb action movie where a ultra smurf space marine blows up a couple obviously evil xenos.  Probably won't even need to mention half of what the imperium stands for exactly.
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I consume
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I consume again

nenjin

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Quote from: Dan Abnett
“Gregor Eisenhorn is a relentless force in the Dark Future of the Warhammer universe: a destroyer of daemons and a purger of heretics, implacable, powerful and dedicated. But the appeal to me, from the moment I started writing him, was his complexity. He is not the simple, ruthless hero he appears to be. His battle with the Warp leads him into dark places and forces him to question his duty, his understanding of the Imperium, and his own identity. With Eisenhorn, it’s not just the adventures, and they are certainly vivid: it’s the journey he takes to the very limits of what he is and what it means to be loyal.”

You can't really avoid talking about what the Imperium actually is with a focus like that. You also can't stop "real world fascists" from glomming on to anything, the very idea is stupid. The best you can hope for is that the people making aren't actually attempting to cheerlead it, because then you morally can't enjoy it. It's almost like "you can't like a thing I dislike" only with an added dose of the screaming hellscape that is US politics.

I don't give a shit who like it and why, I just care that it's good.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Egan_BW

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It'll just be a big dumb action movie where a ultra smurf space marine blows up a couple obviously evil xenos.  Probably won't even need to mention half of what the imperium stands for exactly.

I swear to the blood god if I see marines fighting orks in a generic featureless wasteland one more time...
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It is good to choose your battles. It is better to choose your wars.

MetalSlimeHunt

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You absolutely can stop real fascists from their glomming, just look at pieces of media fascists hate and you'll see why: They pretty much all have political themes with authors who are aware of the messaging they're putting out with those themes. 40k is the opposite - full of political themes but with authors who refuse to actually engage with them. Fascists love this because, much like fascism, it's it's a paper-thin mirror to hype themselves up with.

Female Space Marines is the archetypal example of this for 40k - fashy fans don't explode at FSM because it violates Sacred Lore, they're exploding at the question of "Why are there no Female Space Marines" because the answer to that is obviously "Because the Emperor and the Imperium are sexist", which incidentally is an answer that actually maintains the lore of there being no FSM. The real reason FSM upsets the fash is that it increases the depth of 40k, and brings fans as a whole one step closer to asking fash why their Facebook group is called "God-Emperor Trump exterminatus the Greeenskins when".

Incidentally, 40k media with an aware authorship is so much fucking better than self-hyping bullshit anyway, so the desire to throw fash out in the cold and be artistically successful are interlinked.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
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No Gods, No Masters.

nenjin

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So you want GWS and its authors to coordinate and self-brand themselves as something fascists hate, so they won't enjoy it? That's the same creatively bankrupt shit that Star Wars pulled. No thanks. 40k doesn't need to stab itself in the neck to prove its loyalty to political ideology, in either direction. Did Pepe teach no one anything?
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti
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